Snarf Oscar Boondoggle

Tue, May 18, 2010 : 8:53 a.m.

rondabouts are terrible unless there are only three vehicles in them at a time, max. they plug up adn delay everyone and everything everytime (if there are four or mor cars trng to use them). if one of those disasters is planted within 4 blocks of me, i;m selling the house cheap and moving to somewhere intelligent.

mpeterse

Sun, May 16, 2010 : 8:47 p.m.

I love them! Waiting for interminable (seems like) red lights, especially when no one is coming on the cross street w/ the green, or lurching slowly up to a 4-way stop is torture - alternatively, bring on the traffic circles! I wish we had zillions of them! All it takes is some thought and a little concentration to get into and out of a traffic circle, politely - piece of cake.

stunhsif

Sat, May 15, 2010 : 1:12 p.m.

The average driver is simply too dumb and or disconnected to handle roundabouts. I like them but they are dangerous right now because people don't know how to use them.

BHarding

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 7:44 p.m.

I'll second everyone's opinion about the center. It should not block your view of anything. The circle at Superior & Geddes is a huge improvement over what was there previously. I really can't understand why people don't use their turn signals. They can eat their take-out, talk on the phone and text, sip their coffees, shave or put on make-up, but never use their turn signals.

Ann Dwyer

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 4:43 p.m.

I should also mention that even though the traffic circle in Marshall is big, I did almost get plowed into by a large truck hauling a trailer that did not yield, did not slow down, and most certainly did not even look in my general direction.

Ann Dwyer

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 4:39 p.m.

I hate the ones in East Lansing. You have to absolutely know where you are going because you have to pick a lane, then you have to look out for the packs of students that are will walk out in front of you. I grew up in Marshall, so I know how to use a roundabout. But that is a nice spacious one. The ones here are far too small. I never bother with the inner lane because I don't want to get blocked in.

Jim Zamberlan

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

Roundabouts really are a far more efficient way to deal with some intersections. Driving anywhere where they are prevalent you quickly realize that the save both time and fuel. It is amazing to me that while people seem readily able to adapt to new technologies in cellphones and entertainment/navigation systems in automobiles most are incapable of handling one new aspect of actually driving.

scole

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 2:52 p.m.

I see several comments that speak negatively about traffic circles, and then mention the monstrosities in Brighton. If this is your only experience with roundabouts, I understand your concern. I have used traffic circles in both Europe and here in the US, and have found them mostly a great success. They are especially useful in places with high traffic that tends to back up affecting other intersections (like Whittaker/Stony Creek, which backs up enough to prevent any traffic from leaving the shopping center to the north). Even in times of high traffic, they force cars to slow down and space out, allowing for a continuous flow of traffic, preventing excessive backups. Hopefully this will ease things at M-14 at Geddes. I can't wait!

belboz

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 2:44 p.m.

big ben... parliment... Generally they are fine, but stay away from that double threat roundabout on Lee off of US23. Just when you think you've made it, you're stuck in another one... They are like the Michigan Left. People come here and wonder what to do. But, when you get used to them, it is just part of the joy of driving.

deres

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 12:56 p.m.

Roundabouts can work well if they're in the right place. I agree with many who say to not mark the inside and outside lanes. It's too confusing. Just have a wide enough space for one lane of cars, and let them navigate through. The lanes that are marked at Maple Road and Lee Road force those who follow them to really turn hard to stay in the lanes, and you have to look quickly at the signs to know which to choose. Just don't have any lanes, and a lot of the confusion will disappear. Check out the circles on MSU's campus sometime. I haven't been there in a while, but if I recall, they have a number of traffic circles that are not marked with lanes. I don't remember having a problem getting through those as an incoming freshman because they were big and everyone seemed to know how to handle them. Instead of putting Yield signs in, how about a new sign that says "Wait for traffic in circle" or "Stop for traffic in circle". Some people know what "Yield" means, but some don't, so put up a sign that says what you want. And get rid of the lane lines. They are confusing.

klatte

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 10:40 a.m.

I can't wait for one to get rid of the mess on Geddes near Concordia. Hurry up and circle!

Bob

Fri, May 14, 2010 : 9:35 a.m.

Sighhh, I don't like traffic circles. Of course, I also don't like the designated hitter, NFL overtime rules, Hockey shootouts, MEAP testing and Dick Purtan retiring. I've actually enjoyed the smoother traffic flow on Whittaker past the shopping center now that the light at Stoney Creek is gone. If this continues with the traffic circle, then it will be a good thing. I'm guessing I'll make a few extra circles in the beginning because I tend to drive pretty conservatively, but I'm sure I will adjust. I'm guessing that since construction is well under way all our griping and whining won't change the fact that we will end up with a traffic circle. Get a grip people, stop arguing with the rain.

Tony

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 10:49 p.m.

As many folks have pointed out, roundabouts work well when drivers know what to do. But there's the rub. 1. There is a posted speed limit. At Huron Pkwy and Nixon, it is 10 mph. A remarkable number of motorists go 20-30 mph (often without looking before entering the roundabout). 2. "Yield" does not mean "merge." According to the Michigan Driver's Handbook "The yield sign indicates a driver must slow down and give way to all traffic and pedestrians. Vehicles within the roundabout have the right of way. You must yield the right-of way to drivers already in the roundabout. When yielding to traffic, make sure to stop behind the yield lines (dashed white lines painted across a roundabouts traffic lane)." And indicate your exit by using your right turn signal. Once drivers get that down, perhaps the entrance to Arborland Mall will also be safer!

townie54

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 12:32 p.m.

well I dont like them but I can live with them.The maple road ones are small and people cant go fast enough to scare me.But the ones at Lee Road and 23 are scary.People going fast and 3 and 4 lanes which 75% dont know how to use.I get off at the exit before Lee and take the back way to grand river ave.

jns131

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 12:15 p.m.

Remove them completely. Leave them where they belong...in Europe. OK, I saw a few in remote towns but still, for those who are from big towns leave them out of towns who have no clue how to use them. Everyday I see accidents waiting to happen and drivers who have no clue nor no biz driving in them. Round A Bouts are nothing but a major accident waiting to happen and MDOT has no biz building them.

Woman in Ypsilanti

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 11:21 a.m.

I have found that after getting used to them, I like them. Well, except for that one in Brighton that everyone mentions. I avoid that one by getting off of US-23 an exit early and using the service drive to get to Costco. That has the added advantage of allowing me to turn right out of their parking lot on the way home. :)

tlb1201

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 11:12 a.m.

I think that once the Whittaker/Stony Creek roundabout is in and functioning, people will see the benefit. (Assuming that it is designed right.) It is a nightmare to turn left (north) out of the shopping center on the west side of Whittaker. It seems that there is always someone doing something crazy and dangerous while trying to do so. Now they will be able to just turn right, go a short distance around the roundabout, and head north without endangering the rest of us in the process -- assuming that they have the skills to navigate a roundabout better than they do to make a safe left turn!

krc

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 10:22 a.m.

I hated them at first. Now I think they are they way to go at bad intersections. Incidentally, soon after the Maple Road/M 14 one went into operation I had an elderly friend who got so confused she tried to turn LEFT from Maple Rd. Fortunately she had a friend with her who quickly corrected her. Now she navigates it like a pro.

April Scarlett

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 10:02 a.m.

Love them! As long as people use them correctly, they are terrific.

spaceman

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 9:48 a.m.

What do I thing about roundabouts? Ii's like asking what one thinks about guns. There is nothing bad about a roundabout - it is the people who use them improperly that are the problem. To me nothing could be simpler than the rules of a roundabout. Problems occur when someone does not follow the rules, but much more common are the problems caused by someone who just does not trust the other drivers to do the right thing. DO NOT SLOW DOWN WHEN YOU ARE IN THE CIRCLE! Do not try to yield to an incoming car when you are in the circle - keep going to your exit point.

jrbozo

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 9:42 a.m.

Ah, the roundabouts. When they were first installed in Brighton there were so many signs people actually had to stop to read them all (and they were huge!). So, they decided there were too many and got rid of them and added more paint to the pavement to "guide" people. Now the paint has lost that loving feeling with our MI winters and salt trucks, etc.. My biggest complaint after going through the Brighton roundabouts for several years now is this. Why, oh why, did they make them go from two lanes to one, going over a bridge with absolutely no signage or warning? Who let this happen? Honestly, who has the right of way at this point? I think they should have saved some money on the double part and made the bridge a double lane.

Awakened

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 8:29 a.m.

I have no problem with roundabouts in theory; and I certainly know how to use them. The problem is that I am sharing them with way too many people who can't handle staying in their lane on a straight roadway, stop for lights and signs, or read road signs. We need more stringent licensing standards and renewal standards.

Mousedeva

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 8:06 a.m.

First of all, get rid of that confusing signage!!!!!!!!!Esp. in Brighton at Lee Rd. You cannot possibly be safe while driving and reading (comprehending?) those stupid things at the same time. In addition to yielding and not stopping unless traffic is in the circle, it would help if the roundabouts were bigger. In other countries I've been to, no one has a problem, heck, they aren't even marked half the time w/ "lanes" and people are forced to be cautious and pay attention. hmmmm using common sense? what a novel idea!

Thomas Hunt

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 8:04 a.m.

The roundabouts in Ann Arbor are helpful. It is true that some folks don't understand them well but they should darn well get used to it. We have too many other places such as the no right turn on red signs, where the rules seem to be set up to protect against stupid drivers at the expense of the rest of us. We need to insist that drivers take more responsibility. Roundabouts are common and successful even in New England where drivers are exceptionally aggressive and they can work well here too.

Basic Bob

Thu, May 13, 2010 : 4:47 a.m.

Roundabouts are great! In Italy I saw all sizes, from a 20 foot median circle to one that was nearly 1/2 mile across with 4 lanes. They didn't provide any signage for which lane to use, people just figured it out. Anyone that can do a Michigan left should be able to figure out a roundabout.

thorny

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 9:28 p.m.

What's the big deal? You maneuver through it slowly and safely to your intended destination and nobody has to stop for a red light. If people can't handle it, maybe they shouldn't be driving a 3,000 pound projectile. The future is here now. Get over it!

marzan

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 8:13 p.m.

I love the roundabouts at Maple and 14. In the 6 months that I've lived in this corner of the city, I've calculated that the roundabouts have saved me about 90 minutes of waiting at lights. ( I use them 4 times a day saving an average of 30 seconds a time ) Traffic always flows well except about once a week when someone doesn't quite understand it, but as they get more popular, I'm sure that will happen less. I don't understand why people say it's too small. I think it's a great size.

fortin911

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 5:57 p.m.

Bring on more roundabouts and get rid of gas wasting traffic lites!

fortin911

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 5:52 p.m.

For those people that cannot handle a roundabout I would suggest they turn in their drivers lisennse at the closest Secretary of States Office!

Macabre Sunset

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 5:43 p.m.

I like them. They take a lot of traffic away from Lee Road because so many drivers are afraid of them. The little one near downtown Brighton is a bit annoying because people can't avoid it, don't know the rules, and it's so tiny that you have slow to 10mph if there's someone parallel to you going the other direction because they're on you in an instant if they're turning. The file photo is funny because the grass is so overgrown now that circle is on the verge of being dangerous as small cars can almost sneak out of the grass without being seen by other small cars.

Peregrine

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 4:42 p.m.

Thank you, Tom Teague, for the link to the video. If you're confused by how to use a modern roundabout or what its advantages are, you should watch the video. Now let's clear up some misconceptions expressed in the discussion. No, a modern roundabout (and yes, modern is part of their name) is not the same as a traffic circle, at least not in the details. Modern roundabouts are purposefully made smaller to slow traffic to 15mph-20mph. This is a safety feature to reduce the likelihood of accidents and their severity should they occur. They should not be enlarged. And the rules may be different modern roundabouts and traffic circles. With a modern roundabout, entering traffic must yield to traffic already in the roundabout, not necessarily so for a traffic circle. The islands are high, I suspect, to direct people to look in the correct direction, which is to look left when entering. You should not concern yourself with what's happening on the opposite side. Look left and yield when entering, it's really pretty simple. As the video says, the statistics for modern roundabouts when compared to standard intersections are impressive: 76% fewer injury accidents 90% reduction in fatalities 40% reduction in pedestrian injuries I can understand how they might be intimidating to those new to them. Watch the video and then have someone who is comfortable with them drive with you to demonstrate their use and help you get acclimated. Safer, less waiting, less fuel, less pollution. Modern roundabouts are a quadruple win.

Marvin Face

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 4:13 p.m.

These things are too easy to navigate. Try this one:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swindon-Magic-Roundabout.svg

uawisok

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:54 p.m.

If you can't understand or manauver a round a bout then I would be suspect of your driving ability overall....they are really pretty straight forward but do require thinking ahead, not texting or talking on a cell phone while doing so...focus people focus!!

jcj

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:47 p.m.

I have felt all along that the roundabouts were a waste of money. Now that we have the Maple road roundabout I don't mind using it, BUT I still think it is a waste of money we don't have. The money would be better spent fixing roads.

ChrisW

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:40 p.m.

The signage at the Ann Arbor Maple Road roundabout is horrible. It's like taking a Rorschach test while driving. Actually driving through it isn't so bad, but would be easier if the signs were more clear.

mm1001

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:26 p.m.

Hey Ford Truck dude, you do not pass in a roundabout.

Freemind42

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:15 p.m.

I support the roundabouts. That being said, from what I see on a regular basis, it isn't the design of our road system that causes problems. It is the drivers themselves who blow red lights, coast through stop signs and do countless other activities that distract them when they should be paying attention (people with i-pods in while driving are absolutely insane). Unfortunately, you can't force people to be good drivers, but you can try to control or limit situations in which their terrible driving causes harm to themselves and others. Roundabouts are proven to be much safer than the traditional intersections.

melissa

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:14 p.m.

I have several issues with the roundabouts... 1. Many commenters are right, the majority of them are TOO SMALL. The one at Superior & Geddes is fine because it is enormous. The one at Lee Road in Brighton is a complete nightmare and I will not shop at any of those stores and will drive miles out of my way to avoid it. Three tiny roundabouts in a small area is just insane. 2. The ones in the UK are mostly one-lane from what I remember. When you make a tiny two-lane roundabout it's seriously difficult to get in the correct lane and see all around you when there is traffic, and then decide where you need to be to get where you need to go? Crazy. 3. People don't know what to do! They stop in the round to let people in, they stop at the yield. They get to a roundabout and TURN LEFT!! YIKES! 4. I think if everyone knew how to drive and they were built much larger and one lane it wouldn't be as terrifying. They can save time, gas, and electricity... but YIKES!

bunnyabbot

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:04 p.m.

@deedee, they have to have a place to put green, God forbid there was no green in a roundabout. which reminds me, if you're coming round the corner and want to exit onto the freeway better hope no one is pushing a baby buggy across the walkway, b/c you can't see jack until you're on him.

AlwaysLate

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 3:02 p.m.

Roundabouts...aka: Traffic Circles back east, are not hazardous to cyclists or pedestrians. The motorists who do not know how to drive through the roundabouts properly are the hazard! "Yield" means yield...not stop-go-stop-go. Slow down, get off the phone and drive safely and you won't have a problem.

Richard C

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 2:59 p.m.

I think they are a good idea although Ann Arbors do seem a little small. The problem is that they take some cooperation between drivers and signaling which doesn't seem to happen much in Ann Arbor.

DeeDee

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 2:57 p.m.

it would help if american traffic engineers would design them more the like european ones, where visibility tends to be better (fewer of those big humps in the middle!), and it is easier to observe traffic flow through the circle. But all this whining and moaning about them is ridiculous: they save a ton of time and gas!

bunnyabbot

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 2:50 p.m.

it sucks when the person next to you has stopped and or is creeping and thereby blocks the view of the person to thier right (or left) so it forces you to have to stop instead of yield. as someone who has driven that stoney creek route I see this as a terrible place to put in a roundabout. If people don't know how to do a four way stop properly a roundabout will not help! the farther in you go into wayne county peoples driving gets worse. I love the flashing light for left lanes. But I hate that person that thinks it's a gimmie to turn left before the on coming traffic gets going. Lot's of accidents happend that way.

Caryn

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 2:44 p.m.

Concept is good. I think these are a little too tight. It's sometimes hard to know where you want to turn off if you're not from the area. Perhaps color coding would be helpful?

Courtneysays

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:49 p.m.

I myself get rather annoyed when people stop at the yeild signs in a round about but as time goes on people will learn how to use them properly. I think round abouts (when used correctly) are time efficient and create a smoother flow of traffic.

Jake C

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:48 p.m.

Regardless of how you may personally feel about them, the facts have shown that roundabouts do two things well: 1) Reduce the rate of accidents at an intersection, especially serious accidents, but also minor accidents too (in the long run). 2) Reduce congestion as compared to a stop sign or traffic signal. So while you might not like roundabouts and maybe you take an alternate route to avoid them, they absolutely make driving safer for the general public. And the more roundabouts are installed, the better the public will get at navigating them. Practice makes perfect!

EngineeringMom

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:26 p.m.

I like the round-abouts. I drive the circles in Brighton every day and believe they save me time and fuel by not having to wait for a traffic light. Yes, there are some really confused drivers on them at times, but fortunately those drivers are going slowly enough to not create a real hazard.

st.julian

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:12 p.m.

I blieve that they confuse many drivers and therefore are dangerous. Double roundabouts are accidnet locatons waiting ot happen such as the one up at Brighton and to a lesser extent the one on north Maple in Ann Arbor. These seem to invite a game of chicken epscially with more aggresive drivers. It would seem that four way stops would be the best solution and eliminate potential death traps likethe one in Brighton

Freemind42

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:04 p.m.

Roundabouts are perfectly fine. People don't like them because they're aren't used to them. I personally like them, for convenience and the fact that they don't require electricity to run. Saves the city $$$

Top Cat

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 1:01 p.m.

We called them traffic circles in New Jersey. We had no problems with them because people in New Jersey have neither fear nor commmon courtesy. The attitude required to successfully navigate traffic circles is alien to Mid-Westerners.

RuralMom

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:46 p.m.

I have used them in the U.K. and I work in Brighton, I refer to them as the round abouts of death, due to DRIVER ERROR. More sinage? Are you kidding me? Its on signs and the pavement is marked. Here's the deal people yeild to traffic from the left, do not stop unless there is traffic comming from the left that prevents you from pulling out. STUPIDEST encounter I have had in Brighton, some idiot stopping in the MIDDLE of the Round about to tell me there are NO LEAD OFFS. Sometimes you can't fix stupid!

chipper

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:46 p.m.

I'm an educated person with an excellent driving record, but I am completely confused by roundabouts. Reading explanations of how they work doesn't prepare you for actually driving in them. I find the double roundabout off US-23 in Green Oak Township so incomprehensible and terrifying that I never go to the mall there, even though it has many stores where I would like to shop. Reading explanations of how roundabouts work doesn't prepare you for actually driving through them. If they're going to be installed everywhere, then training should be available in how to use them safely. I have often wished that a mini-"Driver's Ed" course lasting an hour or so were available where someone would put up charts of a single roundabout and a double roundabout and explain how to navigate through them.

Tom Teague

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:23 p.m.

A reader posted this video link to aa.com back in December. I watched it and will admit I learned a few things about roundabouts. http://wcroads.org/news/roundabouts/RndAbouts-SWFs/All%20About%20Roundabouts.swf I travel pretty frequently and am seeing more and more of these around the country. The old-style traffic circles appear to be on the phase-out list in many places.

Grand Marquis de Sade

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:18 p.m.

It seems almost as if MDOT and county road commissions are just putting these thing in for the hell of it. I completely agree that a roundabout at Stony Creek and Whittaker is almost certainly not needed. The one at Geddes and Superior seems to work well but I think that has a lot to do with the relatively low traffic volume on Superior. When you get cars coming from every direction (Maple Rd, Lee Rd) it seems like people panic and stop (or go) when they are absolutely NOT supposed to. Perhaps some more driver education is needed before we install any more of these things.

Beth

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:17 p.m.

I don't know how to use them and am really freaked out by them - the ones in Brighton are terrifying! Better signage would definitely help - I'm never sure which lane to be in.

bunnyabbot

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:10 p.m.

as someone who has driven in England and traveled in Europe I know how to use them. Like others have said many do not know how to use them, when exiting M14 for example there are two lanes that go "straight" the one on the right is also for those that want to turn right. Several times I have been in the right lane wanting to go straight and the person in the lane to my left will try to get into my lane! but you know, people in general don't seem to use their turn signals so I am not at all shocked people don't know how to use a roundabout. People might drive better if they all would just pretend their was a cop behind them watching their every move.

genericreg

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 12:10 p.m.

The drivers who stop when there's no traffic are always in front of me. The ones who go when there's already traffic in the circle are always almost hitting me. When I stand on the brakes and lay on the horn, they don't even turn their heads or realize they've almost hit someone.

Jay Allen

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 11:47 a.m.

As Brian and Adam have said, folks simply don't get and that is what causes the confusion. "Yield" means YIELD, it does not mean STOP unless a vehicle is in the round-a-bout and coming at you. We have 2 here in Saline by Harvest and the High School. The students do a good job for the most part. Now get older drivers in there, what a mess. BTW, I am 47 and 100% understand a round-a-bout.

Mick52

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 11:33 a.m.

They are hazardous to pedestrians and bicyclists. I found that out researching my paper on bike lanes. This needs to be addressed. They do make traffic flow smoothly but as noted too many people do not understand how to use them.

David Briegel

Wed, May 12, 2010 : 10:50 a.m.

People don't understand how to use them! You don't stop unless traffic is in the circle. Yield does not mean stop! You merge. Everyone has to slow down which is not the same as stop. It is as bad as a 4 way stop where everyone sits there.