University of Michigan LSA grads battle 'pre-unemployment' stereotype
University of Michigan College of Literature, Science and Arts senior Cassie Hazelip works as the co-coordinator of the public service intern program at the U-M career center. She will join the Peace Corps after graduation.
Angela J. Cesere | AnnArbor.com
The sun is setting on the day, and on Jansen's time as an undergraduate in Ann Arbor. But with a full-time marketing job with Quicken Loans in Detroit already secured, Jansen — a political science major in the College of Literature, Science and Arts — seems free of the stresses being felt by of many of his peers as they prepare for graduation today.
With 16,387 undergraduate students (or 62.5 percent of the undergraduate population) LSA is by far the largest of U-M's 12 colleges. Just as no other school compares in size — the College of Engineering is the next largest, with 5,284 undergraduates — none is more commonly derided in everyday conversation for allegedly producing graduates that are ill-prepared to enter the working world and lack a defined skill set.
John U. Bacon, a local author who also teaches at U-M, jokingly refers to his history degree from Michigan as one in “pre-unemployment.” Television personality Stephen Colbert recently joked, “What’s an English major going to do for you when America needs engineers and tweens that can put together iPads?”
LSA majors get a lot of flack, but is this running gag a reflection of reality? Jansen started looking for a job in November after taking his Law School Admissions Test. He eventually plans to go to law school, but put off applying because of his quick and successful job search.
“To be honest, I just got lucky,” Jansen said. “It’s silly to say, I mean I’m obviously happy that I found a job, but I think I just got lucky.”
Jansen isn't the only "lucky" one.
According to the U-M Career Center’s annual poll of LSA graduates, 91.2 percent of the 1,182 members of the Class of 2010-11 who responded were either employed or continuing their education within a year of graduation. Of those respondents, 53.5 percent were either employed full-time, part-time by choice, volunteering or self-employed and 37.7 percent were continuing their education.
While popular culture might suggest the number would be higher, a mere 8.4 percent of graduates were either unemployed or underemployed in the survey.
BALANCING STRESS AND PATIENCE
Every student without a job on commencement day fears being part of that dreaded 8.4 percent. Geni Harclerode, assistant director of experiential learning and employer development at the Career Center, sees her fair share of stressed students who wonder how four years went by so fast, and what they're going to do with the LSA degrees that they will receive today.
Commencement ceremonies begin at 10 a.m. at Michigan Stadium, and although the weather forecast looks questionable, the employment forecast is what most prospective grads find more concerning.
University of Michigan senior Amara Lopez works at the information desk at the U-M career center.
Angela J. Cesere | AnnArbor.com
But Harclerode said she's seen more patience and confidence in this year's pending graduates than at any time since the 2008 financial crisis.
Harclerode said LSA students utilizing the Career Center seem far less desperate to jump on their first job offer, confident there will be something out there eventually, even if it doesn’t happen the day after they don caps and gowns.
“There’s far less doom and gloom,” Harclerode said. "I feel like a couple years ago, students felt like they needed to to take any job that they were offered."
A study by the National Association of Colleges and Employers suggests a better outlook for this year's grads. According to the study, employers expect to hire 10.2 percent more college graduates from the Class of 2012 than they did from the Class of 2011.
Declining statewide and nationwide unemployment rates help boosts the confidence of students, as does observing friends and family emerge from tougher times.
“We’ve had older friends who haven’t been able to get jobs (right away). We were ready for it,” said Vicky Jennings, a senior LSA student majoring in political science and international studies. “They all had different timelines, varying majors, but knew what they wanted to do and, in my experience, it’s worked out for most of them. . . . You just have to be patient.”
Jennings has yet to find a job, but is moving to Washington, D.C., this summer regardless, intent on eventually working in public policy. Having worked internships over the past two summers in D.C., Jennings is confident things will work out and said the nation's capital is where she needs to be for that to happen.
“I’m definitely jealous of the people that have jobs. At the same time though, there’s no question what I want to do,” Jennings said. “I’d much rather have a job in a few months and find a job that I really love than take a job just so I can say I have one when I graduate.”
A DIVERSE GROUP
There is danger in trying to paint with a broad brush when describing the LSA college, which includes both drama and economics majors among its graduates. Creative writing and chemistry majors may sit together at the graduation ceremony today, but there's no doubt their job searches will differ.
Even some LSA graduates with the same major may find their job searches vastly different.
Alex Assaf, a communications major hoping to work in broadcast journalism, has had a frustrating and unsuccessful job search despite voluminous experience with various television and radio stations, including WOLV-TV and the Big Ten Network. It seems to not be enough for employers looking to hire, while her soon-to-be graduate status makes her ineligible for many internships.
For Assaf, finding a job has been a long, frustrating and ongoing process.
Lizzy Rewalt will graduate with that same communications degree (with a second major in Spanish) and head to San Francisco to take a job with Cisco Systems as an IT analyst.
Though her job doesn't line up with her majors, Rewalt didn’t find her studies useless in her job search, but found she had to take the reins on the search more so than some of her peers.
Rewalt has been passionate about technology since she was younger, and structured her extracurricular activities to become more competent in the field as well as her summer jobs. Though not a student in the business school, she utilized many of its networking events and was also heavily involved in her business fraternity, Alpha Kappa Psi.
“(A job search) is not as set out for you and structured as in some other smaller schools, such as college of engineering or the business school,” Rewalt said. “But once an LSA student realizes that they can still pursue the same opportunities that are kind of put on a platter in front of the business school students and the engineering students, then they realize anything’s an option and can find success.”
"I think it’s all about the personality type and not so much the school," Rewalt said.
A survey of the employers at the Career Center's job fairs this academic year found that 72 percent of selected "all majors" as their preference in hiring, which is good news for LSA grads.
"Employers have always been attracted to the diversity of our students, and the level of leadership our students are investing in while students here," Harclerode said. "While not every LSA student has a defined career path right when they graduate, not every job has a specific major that prepares you for it.
"A lot of our LSA students just don't know what they're good at yet."
Contact Pete Cunningham at petercunningham@annarbor.com or by phone at 734-623-2561. Follow him on Twitter @petcunningham.
Comments
Stuart Brown
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:03 a.m.
Folks, Productivity goes up about 2% per year in the USA. This happens because technology is employed to reduce the number of hours it takes a human to make the proverbial widget. Has anyone here ever considered what happens when you compound the effects of this over 200 years (which is like an eye blink in geological time)? I'll give you all the answer: 2% per year means in 200 years the average worker will produce 50 times the stuff the same worker today can make. So, in 200 years, almost nobody will have a job or we will seriously reduce the workweek so the planet can sustain our species' fantastic success. My point here is that it will be well worth employing LSA grads to figure out if the technology that will make a higher standard of living possible is living up to its potential to actually raise living standards for the entire population. We've just gone through a 30 year period where productivity has been raised tremendously and all of the benefit has gone to the top 1%. Rather than raising living standards, the extra wealth has been used to enslave most of the population even further. We will need LSA grads even more in the future!
bedrog
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:08 p.m.
it's true, 'guru' ...when techno- wonks weigh in on social subjects its usually pretty pathetic ( cf. H.H. , M.S. , C.L.and A.S.---all connected to your 'greens'!)
dotdash
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:03 p.m.
I see we have gone down the path of "an education is just precursor to a job". It's not -- or not exclusively. College can be a time to explore something that deeply interests you (this can be true of anyone from English majors or engineers), a time to develop critical thinking and writing skills that will serve you your whole life, and a time to identify what might hold your interest for the next 30-50 years. You may never have that time again, whereas work drags on and on and on. Life is long, and a education that goes beyond job training can serve you well all your life. At the very least, people should be encourage to branch out a bit . When the scramble for income becomes less interesting to you in late middle age, you will have the background to explore literature or philosophy.
Hamlet
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:45 p.m.
As a 2011 LSA graduate I can say that this article is deeply flawed. How much did the UM Career Center pay for this advertisement? The reported number of 91% employment of 2011 grads is incredibly misleading. How many of these graduates are underemployed? How many are working in a job that requires a college degree? How many are serving you french fries? The AP reported a much more honest number last week, reporting that **53%** of college grads are un or under employed. This figure paints a much clearer picture of the prospects facing graduates around the country, including UM graduates. Shame on Ann Arbor dot com and the UM Career Center for misleading their readers and especially recent graduates. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Pete Cunningham
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
The article does not at any point claim 91 percent employment of anyone. Below are the statistics I believe you are referring to, from the eighth and ninth paragraphs of the article. "According to the U-M Career Center's annual poll of LSA graduates, 91.2 percent of the 1,182 members of the Class of 2010-11 who responded were either employed or continuing their education within a year of graduation. Of those respondents, 53.5 percent were either employed full-time, part-time by choice, volunteering or self-employed and 37.7 percent were continuing their education. While popular culture might suggest the number would be higher, a mere 8.4 percent of graduates were either unemployed or underemployed in the survey." I will also point out that the survey referenced in the article actually differentiates between those working part-time by choice from those underemployed. As for the AP article you are referring to, the subject of that article and this one don't appear to be the same. This article is specifically about University of Michigan College of Literature, Science and Arts graduates. If 53 percent of college grads are unemployed or underemployed nationwide that does not mean 53 percent of University of Michigan LSA graduates are unemployed or underemployed.
say it plain
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 3:27 p.m.
Here's a piece from today's Mlive.com lol that isn't an advertising blurb for the UM Career center written by Ann Arbor dot com ;-) http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/why_college_graduates_still_st.html
Doug
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 5:12 p.m.
Glad to see that so many of the LS & A recent grads who responded to the survey have jobs. But the article doesn't tell us how many responded overall. 10%? 20%? 50%? Absent that information, these results are about as reliable as those of a Karl Rove push poll.
say it plain
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 3:13 p.m.
Ooh, I had a reply deleted... Um, let's see.... I tried to agree with @Doug that this survey can't be taken seriously as an indicator of anything without response-rate info.
dotdash
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:54 p.m.
Glad someone made that point. The response rate would, naturally, be higher among those who had jobs and could happy report them. I think there are 4000 LSA grads, so a response rate of about 25% leaves a lot of wobble room.
bedrog
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 4:40 p.m.
In an era where medieval religious fanatics can build nukes and contemplate other weopons of mass destruction, and where even in the hyper "educated" U.s. we have the similarly backward looking ( ala creationist - believing , climate science and overpopulation denying faithinks) making inroads in presidential politics ( bye, rick! don't let the door hit you on the way out!!) god bless the history , anthropology and other majors with real knowledge of what actually happened in human affairs over the millenia... Blind allegience to doctrinal fairytales coupled with technological competence = pernicious idiot savant -ism
Jonathan Blutarsky
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:39 a.m.
Like anyone actually got anywhere with critical thought...
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 3:56 p.m.
How could I forget the Ann Arbor version of the joke? The engineer asks "How will that work?" The scientist asks "Why does that work?" The manager asks "When will that work?" And the LSA grad asks "Do you want an old or new pickle with that?"
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:48 p.m.
"Your probably dumb enough to choose the New Pickle." Your (sic) probably a Spartan LSA grad?
Elijah Shalis
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:15 p.m.
Managers are very over rated. You only have to be of average intelligence and usually get the job because you are friends with higher ups. Your probably dumb enough to choose the New Pickle.
Chase Ingersoll
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 3:31 p.m.
BLAME CONGRESS. Here is a short history. Prior to 2005 student loan debt could be discharged through bankruptcy. Because Lenders (private and government backed) could lose everything through bankruptcy, they were more careful about the loan standards and the amounts. THINK HOW WHAT I JUST SAID ALSO APPLIES IN THE HOUSING MARKET AND DRAW THE OBVIOUS PARALLELS. But now consider that unlike the housing market, THE STUDENT LOAN BORROWER (in many cases a young and completely financially inexperienced person) cannot weight the cost of repayment vs the cost of walking away from the debt and living a life without credit for 7 years. Instead they are forever enslaved by that debt as would be someone who owed child support or a judgement for punitive or criminal damages. Prior to the 2005 law their was repeated media coverage of doctors and attorneys who had filed bankruptcy to escape student loans. The actual number that did this was very small, because the Bar Association looked down on it. UNEXPECTED CONSEQUENCES: Just like the housing market, if the government is going to guarantee money loaned for a particular type of loan, the market is going to make more money available to that type of loan........AND.......with more money available, demand will increase and the cost of tuition rose just like the cost of housing. I attended law school with Senator Durbins son Paul (Miller Canfield). Undoubtedly Paul is seeing young legal associates with ridiculous amounts of debt. Sen. Durbin is proposing legislation to allow for the bankruptcy of some debt. As a market purist, I would argue for bankruptcy of all student debt as it would result in a drastic reduction of tuition rates caused by the manipulation of the education finance market. Chase Ingersoll
Stuart Brown
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:36 a.m.
Chase, You are correct! I agree with your analysis. I would add that I think one thing worth looking at is making the institution that receives the tuition dollars on the hook to pay back half the money if a default occurs. We have seen a plethora of scam schools that are charging top tuition dollar for worthless degrees.
Maxwell
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:21 a.m.
I have to say you have hit the proverbial nail on its head re as bankruptcy laws fit in on the subject. There are some other "unexpected consequences" that you have not mentioned, most of which one could file under "Candy Grab".
bhall
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 3:14 p.m.
@Pete Cunningham, Parts of your story are well written and interesting, such as the discussion of the diversity of LSA majors, the overall job outlook for graduates this year, and how graduates are finding jobs. But I wish you didn't invent a news hook for the story that plays into a certain stereotype often seen in the comments on this blog (ie. liberal arts majors are worthless). It's like you're writing to incite the 'regulars' into commenting, and perpectuating the stereotype by relying on the jokes of John Bacon and Steven Colbert to find some skimpy evidence to justify that it even exists outside of a narrow range of people who have no idea what they're talking about. Who says liberal arts is worthless? Oh, one wannabe comedian and one real comedian. Then it must be worth writing a story about to discuss that view. Come on, sometimes this blog just doesn't want to be taken seriously... And by the way, for anybody who thinks graduating with an engineering degree or science major is such a better ticket to a job than a degree in History... Of my friends, three got engineering degrees. Five years after college, none of them are engineers any more. None of them work in jobs that require an engineering degree. It's how you learn to think in college rather than what you learn that is often useful to employers. Because of that, my history degree has served me as well as the engineering degree that my friends received. And, my sister's degree in women's studies is paying off quite well; she's working in finance.
clownfish
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 6:33 p.m.
Bragg applauds your ability to not live up to his factless stereotypes!
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 5:14 p.m.
I applaud your success in overcoming the handicap of having a liberal arts degree. People who are smart and hard working can succeed.
Unusual Suspect
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 3:06 p.m.
I always thought "LSA" stood for "Lazy Sciences and Arts."
Doug
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 5:07 p.m.
In my day, the moniker was "L S & Play."
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 2:57 p.m.
Here's my old "pile on LSA" joke. The engineer asks "How will that work?" The scientist asks "Why does that work?" The manager asks "When will that work?" And the LSA grad asks "Do you want fries with that?"
Stuart Brown
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:27 a.m.
Wrong! Right: the LSA grad asks, "Is it worth making it work?" Not a popular question in the area of efficient markets and deification of profit maximizing-shareholder value corporations.
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:50 p.m.
Perhaps the key is to focus more on humor, and starting your own business; rather than working for the man.
Thaddeus
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:39 p.m.
"Here's my old "pile on LSA" joke." - And that is a joke too, because in today's economy, people who waste the time and money to get a degree in engineering, the sciences, management, or LSA are all equally going to be very hard-pressed to find a job anywhere. If graduates do find a job, it almost certainly wont be as a fry guy/gal because fast food joints are like other businesses in that increasingly they do not hire people with more education, skills, or capacity than the job requires....
Angry Moderate
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:24 p.m.
Elijah - LOL. The world's great works of art do not come from liberal arts majors.
Elijah Shalis
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:11 p.m.
Without Liberal Arts majors the world would literally be devoid of culture and arts. I suggest you go to the DIA and look at the $1 Billion dollars worth of art.
5c0++ H4d13y
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 2:30 p.m.
Someone with a history degree and few job prospects turns to law school?
Mr. Me
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.
While there are several "hard" majors within LSA -- sciences, mathematics, economics -- many humanities majors are very valuable, if graduates can signal their skills to potential employers. While I majored in a quantitative discipline, I did took many courses in the humanities and was fortunate to have several teachers and professors of the old school who demanded precise use of language and careful, analytical arguments, or they'd rip you apart. The skills I learned from those classes have been just as useful as my quantitative skills in my career. At a place like UM, you can still find those courses, but you have to seek them out and be willing to work. And, unfortunately, simply majoring in a "soft" liberal arts major doesn't show potential employers that you can write and think at a high level anymore. You need to grab their attention and prove it.
Stuart Brown
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:22 a.m.
TNB, And I will rip you apart for your use of an ad hominem attack; nice way to make a specious argument! This is a comment board and one should not expect perfectly proofread arguments.
TNB
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 2:41 p.m.
"While I majored in a quantitative discipline, I did took many courses in the humanities and was fortunate to have several teachers and professors of the old school who demanded precise use of language and careful, analytical arguments, or they'd rip you apart." Sorry, Mr. Me, they'd rip you apart for using took instead of take in the first line of that run-on sentence.
Rugeirn Drienborough
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:36 p.m.
It's pretty clear what's going on when the poster child for "LSA grad with a job" is a political science major who's all set to do marketing for Quicken. He's taken anything he could get; his degree is irrelevant to what he's now going to be doing. He could probably have wound up in the same place by going to Cleary.
Soft Paw
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:32 p.m.
Many people's degrees are irrelevant to their jobs, so what? You need the degree to get the job, and a UM degree opens more doors than most.
Hamlet
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:48 p.m.
Exactly right!
Monica R-W
Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:43 a.m.
Cleary has great programs and they're less expensive than U of M.....
Jeff Dean
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:35 p.m.
"a mere 8.4 percent of graduates were either unemployed or underemployed in the survey" The actual rate is probably higher among the total population of graduates, since at least some of the un- or underemployed grads probably didn't bother to respond to the survey and admit to their situation.
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.
I have worked in a number of companies and a number of different departments. I admit I lean to the science majors because of my experiences. The engineers that I am involved with come in the first day ask me what the problem is and then try to solve it. The liberal arts majors that I have hired as secretaries/office managers etc. come in and explain to me how smart they are ("I have a 4 year degree from UM") and that the job is beneath them. There is also the compulsory "I am well traveled and cultured" comments that don't seem to stop.....Sigh. Anecdotal but my experiences.
dairy6
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 11:34 p.m.
"comments that dont seem to stop" look whos talking. Sigh.
clownfish
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 6:31 p.m.
Gee, BRAGG, I am sure your ideology has no bearing on what you hear people saying. Nope, none at all.
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 3:04 p.m.
The point was about entitlement and the brain washing received in college....
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 2:54 p.m.
So you are saying that some of them have social skills and an existance outside of work, while the others are drones. Or were you making a different point?
alan
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:06 p.m.
One other observation which is frequently ignored is that approximately 25% of all bachelor's degrees granted in this country are in general business, more than twice the number of the next most popular major. These students can be found working every menial job one can think of. If you want to run articles about worthless degrees why not investigate this (although U of M business majors do just fine).
alan
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:01 p.m.
Another article intended to pander to the public's misconception of what the liberal arts actually are. Among the 20 LSA departments which grant the largest number of degrees are economics, political science, cognitive science, neuroscience, mathematics, biology, cellular and molecular biology, biochemistry, microbiology, physics, and chemistry. Most of these students will either go to grad school or have no problem finding employment. The average U of M undergrad loan debt is about $25,000, the national average, at under 4% with 10 years to repay. That's cheaper than most car loans. Is it that the writer of the article doesn't understand or is it intentionally designed to get the informed agitated?
alan
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 8:51 p.m.
Yes David, I read the article. I was responding to the very first post which suggested that students borrow $100K to major in something that the poster considered worthless. This is the second article this week on this subject and the first drew many uninformed comments.
Angry Moderate
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 7:22 p.m.
David - notice how they count volunteering and signing up for some random Masters degree that accepts everyone with a pulse.
David
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 5:13 p.m.
You just didn't really read the article. The point of this article was to bring up examples and statistics that contradict popular ideas about LSA. As it says, "91.2 percent of the 1,182 members of the Class of 2010-11 who responded were either employed or continuing their education within a year of graduation."
alan
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:08 p.m.
No, the overwhelming majority of degrees actually conferred are useful.
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:05 p.m.
I am glad you commented... At least there are some useful degrees in the LSA dept.
brimble
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 12:29 p.m.
Lumping all of the LSA grads together obsfuscates the question of what happens after graduation. LSA Chem or Biology majors who go to work in pharma or energy fields, or who go next to medical school, are fundamentally a different category than majors in History, English, Communications, or so on who have sought degrees that offer broader education in the classical sense but less specific career orientation. The article seems to imply a sense that undergraduate degrees which do not result in employment are somehow less valuable. LSA is an umbrella which encompasses both scientists and poets, and each group and the University as a whole benefits from that range of interest and pursuit.
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 12:28 p.m.
This is a free country and you have the right to major in what you want. That being said, don't complain if you have a $100,000 student loan, a degree in comparative poetry and no job. The market is a cold objective measure of your worth.
dairy6
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 11:32 p.m.
all too predictable. i knew who would reply to this post first. this is why im not friends with engineers. thier sheer arrogance is just too annoying to be around. keep patting yourself on the back man.
Ron Granger
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 2:52 p.m.
For some people, their entire self-image is based on their job, or their degree. It's always something when they lose their job and their whole world unravels. If your allow other people to determine your "worth", you're gonna have a bad time.
Elijah Shalis
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.
After I graduated in 2002 from a college in the area my job at EDS was to pre handle all the Engineering's outgoing communications from them. I wasn't even a English major but a Liberal Arts Poli Sci and History double major with some Comp Sci. You wouldn't believe how bad their English was and they are virtually all American Engineers. I was paid very well for a starting job. Without Liberal Arts majors Engineers would be unable to communicate to get their job done.
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 1:02 p.m.
There is a reason engineers make more than Elizabethan poetry majors. it is called supply and demand.
Robert Hughes
Sat, Apr 28, 2012 : 12:50 p.m.
"The market is a cold objective measure of your worth." Actually, not true.