ThisAintKyle

Wed, Jun 16, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.

Wow! Ann Arbor sure loves it's bums! As a Skater myself, I am happy to see A2 finally get a skatepark. However, I'm not happy to see it being run by the city as a "free" park. I think we need to get over the idea that a park SHOULD be 'free' - instead the burden is being shifted to taxpayers and that means EVERYBODY gets a say. Instead of a grand plan, we need a start-up skatepark based on membership. Dexter had a for-profit skatepark that tanked because it was run by rednecks and fruit booters, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't start a not-for-profit skatepark that is independent of the the park system. Hell maybe you even rent or lease the property from the parks commission like they do for golf courses. What inevitably happens in a FREE park is that it starts off cool, or sometimes it sucks right off the bat, but it always ends up some crappy, unused spot after a while. That's because after the big fund raising push, the dollars tend to dry up and as the park gets crappier, less people use it, etc until it's totally bunk. Instead of this model, we should be following more of a burnside model, where the park is either built a little at a time by the community with money it can raise, or a small membership fee or use fee is charged for using the park and this money all goes toward making it better. I reject the idea that the park needs to be built, financed, and controlled by the city. Skaters, what has the city ever done for us before? Why should we expect any different. I think the group should say screw the city, sack up and go out and build a park on it's own. Even with the 80 grand they have already raised they could have a great start, especially if everybody chipped in and put in some manual labor to get it built. Just my opinion, but nobody seems to be saying it and it needs to be out there.

Scott

Mon, Jun 14, 2010 : 6:41 p.m.

@ Matt Cooper Your argument that this money should go towards helping the homeless is a valid one. However, I'm sure you are aware of the many panhandlers who travel to THIS college town because of it's sensitive and charitable population. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help the homeless. However, if a bunch of kids are getting behind a cause, and their motivation is increased by money promised to them, (already set aside for similar causes) then let it be. We'd be paying for it if we were spending it on a city golf course maintenance the same way we'd pay for it like this. If you are familiar with being nineteen. You should remember what it was like to have a dream, get the community behind it, and then have some old windbag argue that the money for your dream should be set aside for something else. Don't be that windbag. Your arguments are valid, but they are not relevant when it comes to money set aside for parks. If that were the case, we shouldn't have spent money on the art museum, but instead set it aside for sidewalk maintenance.

Lokalisierung

Wed, May 26, 2010 : 1:02 p.m.

"Something tells me there are a "much" greater number of Senior citizens in the community than skateboarders." You're talking about "possible" versus "actual" clients here. Are there more seniors than people currently skateboarding? I'm sure there are. But the possible number of peopl ethat could use a skateboard park is high. What you should be looking at is number of people using the senior center, and then number of people using the skate park when it opens. Then look at the cost of each. Senior center shouldn't be hard since there was so much talk about it being eliminated. Also, the city owns things like roads, and sidewalks, and pools, and all sorts of things that people fall down and injure themselves on. You people act like the idea of kids getting hurt at a skatepark is a completely new idea to the people behind this.

PR of AA

Wed, May 26, 2010 : 12:51 p.m.

@ Lokalisierung......But this "Skate Park" only appeals to a fraction of the community. "Just like the Senior Center." Something tells me there are a "much" greater number of Senior citizens in the community than skateboarders. When will the first lawsuit come about because little Joey fell and broke his arm. This is a huge liability for the city and a terrible idea.

Lokalisierung

Wed, May 26, 2010 : 12:25 p.m.

"But this "Skate Park" only appeals to a fraction of the community." Just like the Senior Center.

Matt Cooper

Tue, May 25, 2010 : 10:29 p.m.

@Scott Danny Lysz: You know, you're right. Screw the homeless. If they were only as motivated as these skatepark people they wouldn't be homless. It's their own dang fault anyway, so p**s on 'em. Let 'em die tonight. And them dang hungry people, the ones that live under the railroad tressel near the Broadway bridge, well...screw them too! Who needs 'em...right? I mean let them dig through garbage cans if they get hungry. Who do they think they are inconveniencing the rest of us like they do? And the worst ones of 'em all...those people that live in the tent city (or at least used to, until the county forced them to relocate) off I-94 near Ann Arbor-Saline road...screw them too. Ungrateful bastards should be glad we allow them to live in our county. Right? I am glad you finally made me come to my senses and realise that the wonderful new skatepark is just so much more important then all those silly hungry and homeless people. Good lord man! What was I thinking? Will that get me your vote?

PR of AA

Tue, May 25, 2010 : 12:38 p.m.

I think this is one of the biggest wastes of "Taxpayer" money. It's bad enough that Ann Arbor has no money and yet they keep buying land to make parks. But this "Skate Park" only appeals to a fraction of the community.

5c0++ H4d13y

Tue, May 25, 2010 : 9:42 a.m.

@voiceofreason Yea there are. The indoor event turned out 100s of skaters. Here's my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYaL2sxgSUI It's funny you say that because my wife says she never sees any skaters in our area and I can rattle off about half dozen in my neighborhood alone. If you're like me and tuned into seeing skaters then you see them everywhere. It takes some practice.

Scott

Tue, May 25, 2010 : 8:11 a.m.

@ Matt Cooper We all understand that you believe this money would be put to better use providing shelter for the homeless. We all understand this. I promise. Providing a skate park for teens and children will decrease crime, city damage from skating, injuries that occur IN the city, and provide a positive environment for our kids. If we want to change the present, we need to look towards the future. Providing a positive outlet for today's youth is a step in the right direction. A dedication of park funds to help the homeless...? I'm not voting for you when you run for Governor.

voiceofreason

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 7:40 p.m.

My question is......... Do that many kids actually skateboard anymore? It doesn't seem to be nearly as popular of an activity as it was 10-15 years ago. I'm not against providing recreational areas for unsupervised kids, but will this really achieve the best "bang for our buck"?

Matt Cooper

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 6:35 p.m.

No, Mr. Staples, that was not a lie. You stated: "The skatepark will be "skate at your own risk" not unlike if you were to go shoot hoops, play tennis or ride your bike or inline skates in a city park. If users were required to wear protective gear, there must be attendants on duty. That costs the city (taxpayers) money, and puts the liability straight onto the city. Most, if not all, public skateparks in MI are free to use and skate at your own risk. " You talked about skateparks in other cities, and you also said that the skatepark will be "skate at your own risk". You did NOT however address the question of what preventative measures would be taken to insure the city and/or county don't get sued in the case of any injuries sustained by people using the skatepark. Nor did you address my question later in that chain of posts about why there aren't any diving boards at any city-run swimming pool. The old diving boards were supposedly "use at your own risk" as well...until someone got injured and sued. Thus...no more diving boards. Finally, all other things aside, are you telling me and every other citizen of this county that the best way to spend a million dollars is to build a skatepark rather than to feed the hungry? Or to house the homeless? Or any of hundreds of other ways to help the less fortunate in our society? Is a skatepark the best thing you can come up with? A facility for people to ride skateboards? A place that will benefit maybe a couple hundred people in a county with a population of 347,386 (as of 2008)? Say it ain't so.

Trevor Staples

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 5:53 p.m.

Ms. Sidney, we are well versed in the PAC resolution, as well as the MOI with the City. In fact, I quoted it in the comments of the above referenced article when Glenn Thompson made claims similar to yours: "This is a direct quote from the PAC resolution: "Whereas City staff and the Ann Arbor Skate Park Action Committee assure the Parks Advisory Commission of the necessity that any final design must meet storm water and other environmental requirements and both parties will make all possible efforts to exceed those." And this is directly from the Memorandum of Intent between the City and the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark: "4. Environmental Responsibility. It is the intention of the parties that the Facility will meet or exceed all storm water management and other environmental requirements, and will compliment the current park and landscape. The parties intend to minimize the environmental impact of the Facility, incorporating where practical, solar powered lights, preservation of existing trees, use of drought resistant species of tress, and low maintenance ground covers. If possible, the Facility will also incorporate public art." If you are worried that this is not within our budget, why? If we can't pay for it, it simply means the skatepark would not be built. To say that we're not going to follow all environmental rules and regulations is ridiculous. The PAC resolution and the MOI specifically say we have to do that. And when I say we, I mean the City of Ann Arbor and the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark. The concept that we unveiled on Saturday is just that, the concept. To say that it doesn't have every detail of a fully designed skatepark is to state the obvious. On the topic of comparing us to "out of town developers," don't be surprised at what comes from the citizens of Ann Arbor. We are all different, and all have different views of what is best for Ann Arbor (my home town). Four people on our board live in the 5th ward where the skatepark will be built. The rest are residents of other Ann Arbor wards. We understand your, and Mr. Thompson's concerns. However, it would be more progressive of you to work with us to make the project all it can be, rather than taking a NIMBY stance and trying to shut the project down altogether.

Karen Sidney

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 4:36 p.m.

There are numerous reasons why a skate park at this time and this location is inappropriate. The concept of taking on yet another park facility when the city repeatedly claims existing, operating facilities must be closed is the obvious one. A less obvious, but a strong legal reason, is storm water treatment. The city is spending $3.5 million in West Park this summer to install storm water cleaning. The Mayor has said on several occasions that the Maple Village shopping center parking lot is a major storm water problem because of the large paved area in the head waters of the Allen Creek. The proposed Skate Park will pave almost another acre just across Maple Road. Mr Staples should review the original PAC resolution that supported the Skate Park. It specifically stated that the design must include the required storm water treatment. I see only one small, inadequate, bioswale indicated on the drawings. It is ridiculous to think the park can be built and the stormwater requirements can be met in the $1 million range. Let me remind you again, $3.5 million in West Park. I do not think another West Park sized project is practical in the present economy. It seems the Skate Park advocates intend to take a preliminary approval, subject to conditions, ignore the conditions and shout "but you agreed". This is common for out of town developers, but I am disappointed that Ann Arbor citizens are willing to use the same tactics to the detriment of the city. I want to conclude that I am not opposed to a Skate Park. I believe that there are locations where a Skate Park could be beneficial to the city's storm water program, but that is not Vet's Park. I also do not think it is prudent to start another multi million dollar project when the city is struggling in the present economic conditions.

Trevor Staples

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 3:01 p.m.

Matt Cooper said, "And not one person from the skatepark has addressed my questions from an article about a month ago about how to protect the City from liability when you know that the first time a kid cracks his head open his parents are gonna "Call Lee Free"." That is a lie. Here is a link to the article he referenced: http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-skatepark/ I've copied my response to him from the comments portion of that piece and pasted it below. I'm not a hard guy to contact. I'm always willing to discuss the skatepark with people who have questions. What I'm not willing to do is argue with people who don't have the facts, but insist they do. ______________________ The skatepark will be "skate at your own risk" not unlike if you were to go shoot hoops, play tennis or ride your bike or inline skates in a city park. If users were required to wear protective gear, there must be attendants on duty. That costs the city (taxpayers) money, and puts the liability straight onto the city. Most, if not all, public skateparks in MI are free to use and skate at your own risk. Here's a helpful quote from our website (http://www.a2skatepark.org): Isn't skateboarding dangerous? According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, it is less dangerous than football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and ice hockey, and about as dangerous as softball! Skateboarding is more of a hazard to non-skating pedestrians, vehicles, and businesses downtown, the only place skaters have to skate locally. Questioning the legitimacy of spending public money on, well, anything, is a popular theme lately. The skatepark is not immune to this commentary. Dave Askins of the Ann Arbor Chronicle explained our situation very well in the comments section of a recent article he wrote about the skatepark ( http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/03/10/county-offers-400k-match-for-skatepark/ ): "Re: [11] Unbelievable!! The county is cutting basic services for those in need yet they are going to fund a new rec facility. From the text of the article: The countys parks and recreation program is funded by two separate, dedicated countywide tax levies at 0.25 mill apiece for capital improvements and maintenance, respectively. The millages are separate from the countys general operating millage. Voters who are unhappy with the way the countys parks and recreation commission is allocating those millage funds can communicate their concerns to county parks commissioners, or vote against those dedicated millages when theyre next put on the ballot. However, its not an option to use dedicated millage funds for a purpose different from that for which the millage was approved." We at the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark believe that in these hard economic times, it's even more important to have free, public facilities for EVERYONE to use. Skateboarding is a low-cost sport to get in to, can be enjoyed late into life (I've been skateboarding for nearly 30 years). We have thousands of supporters throughout Washtenaw County. If you'd like to help us in our fundraising, please visit http://www.crowdrise.com/a2skatepark Trevor Staples Chair, Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepak

Lokalisierung

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 2:13 p.m.

"3. Why should my tax dollars go towards paying for something I will never use?" Silly thing to say. Probably everyone of us can say some of our tax dollars go to things we'll "never use." I don't plan on attending Elementary school again, but I pay for that.

tracyann

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 11:02 a.m.

@Matt Cooper- Actually, I volunteer at the Delonis Center, so yes, I can make such a claim. And again, it's silly to YOU because YOU won't use it. It's not so silly to the kids who want to get out and be active instead of sitting inside vegging out in front of the TV all day. Maybe a nominal fee should be charged to generate some revenue. No, your logic is not hard to follow. I get it. What I don't get is how this idea is so bad. And as for my example about my mom not using the pools because of her medical condition, why is that a silly comparison? If part of the taxes my mom pays goes toward maintaining these pools that she won't use then what's the difference?

Matt Cooper

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 10:19 a.m.

@a2migirl: "Our kids have no place that they can skate. It has been banned from almost every where in the city. If this is not built where are they to go? They want a place where they can skate and not get hassled by adults and the police." Awwwwww!!!!!! poor little kids of Ann Arbor!! We have homeless that have nowhere to go, as well. But they don't worry about skateboards. They worry about staying alive through the night.

Matt Cooper

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 10:14 a.m.

I know that the logic is hard to follow for some, but let me try yet again. The skatepark is silly because: 1. The money being spent on it could well be put to much better use than being pumped into a skatepark that such a small minority of people will actually be able to use. 2. Golf courses, since you mentioned it, are primarily owned and operated by private clubs on private property. And the courses that are owned and operated by the city or county chage fees for their use and are open to anyone that pays those fees. Now try to tell me your 85 year-old grandpa will be out skateboarding at your wonderful new skatepark. 3. Why should my tax dollars go towards paying for something I will never use? And to equate your skatepark to the use of busses, again I say, they generate revenue. You have to pay to ride the bus. So okay. Let's make a deal. You require people to pay to use your skate park and agree to pay back the nearly half-million dollars over time to me and the rest of the county tax payers whose money is buying the skatepark that most of us will never use. That sound completely fair to me. You want a skatepark, you pay for it. 4. @rodney stuckey, first things first. Why not use your own name instead of tying to steal someone elses? Secondly, those people you refer to as 'bums' are human beings with no home, no food and no hope. Many of them suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders that inhibit their ability to take care of themselves. They don't have the same resources you and I have such as a job, decent medical care, access to education, etc. So, call it hat you will, but I think those "bums" as you call them, and their welfare (I know, you neo-cons love that word) are just a shade more important than some silly, yes I said it, SILLY skatepark that serves only a minute fraction of the overall population of Washtenaw county. 5. @tracyann: Sorry about your moms medical condition, but shutting down the pools isn't a sensible solutio, either. And to use that as a justification about the skatepark is just as silly as the idea of a skatepark is. Will your mom be out skating every day all summer? No? Then why should she have to pay for others to do this? Why should I? And to answer your other question, I have served meals to the hungry. I have gone to Liberty Plaza with my band and played for the homeless while the enjoy their free supper given to them by a local church. I have done my part for the homeless as best I can. Can you make any such claim?

tracyann

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 9:51 a.m.

Why is the skate park silly? Because it's something you're not interested in? Some sound passionate about using the money for the homeless, which is great. Homelessness is most definitely a big problem in Ann Arbor. Shall I assume you are doing all you can to help the homeless? Are you out there raising money for your passion as these kids did for theirs? If apartments were built for the homeless I guarantee that someone somewhere would be on here complaining about it. As for for the small population of people who will use it, why is that a big deal? Should we only develop things that every single one of us may use? Then get rid of golf courses because I don't golf. My mom can't go swimming due to a medical condition so let's shut down the pools. What about those who drive everywhere and therefore have no use for the buses? Also, if I remember correctly, the money that the city is putting in is earmarked for the parks, so the money is being used as it should. If the city decided to take this money and use it for things other than which it was intended, then why even have separate funds for anything? Just put it all in one big account and use it however.

a2migrl

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 9:51 a.m.

There are multiple skate parks around the country. Has anyone bothered to see how they handle the rules about injuries? I see that the fund raising is not doing as well as hoped, did anyone consider contacting some of the larger names (Tony Hawk, Rob Dyrdek)in skating and asking for donations? I know that some of them support and help to fund the building of these parks. Our kids have no place that they can skate. It has been banned from almost every where in the city. If this is not built where are they to go? They want a place where they can skate and not get hassled by adults and the police. I don't think that is asking too much. There are virtually no programs or activities available for our teens. There are programs until they are about 12 and then most things stop. They are too young to get jobs and they are too old for most parks and rec programs. This is a way for them to have something to do and not disturb the peace while doing it. This park is long overdue. @MattCooper why not post your address so the youth of this city can come and skate on your street and in your neighborhood? How many people use the dog park? Again it is less than 25% of the city population yet we are all paying for that.

Gaboo

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.

@Matt Cooper: maybe we can give all of the homeless skateboards. I'm with you, though. The $400,000 in matching funds could certainly be used for a better purpose. Just a tiny part of the A2 population will use the park, so why should we all subsidize it? Why not nave them pay for it? Why doesn't the city charge a membership fee for use.

Matt Cooper

Mon, May 24, 2010 : 8:11 a.m.

Ok, so let me get this straight: Ann Arbor skateboarders want a skatepark. And to get their skatepark they have raised a total of $80,000. Meanwhile the county is putting in $400,000. The rest of the million dollar pricetag for a skatepark that probably less than 5% of the Ann Arbor population will actually use will be covered by other donors. So, it's fair to say then that the skaters want the skatepark and are more than happy to have everyone else pay for it. Not only that but it will ruin Vet's park (to those that make the rediculous comments about it actually enhancing Vet's park, all I can say is...come on, you don't really believe that, do you?) And not one person from the skatepark has addressed my questions from an article about a month ago about how to protect the City from liability when you know that the first time a kid cracks his head open his parents are gonna "Call Lee Free". Finally, I can't believe that the county parks department is foolish enough to commit nearly a half million dollars of taxparer money to this project when we have homeless people sleeping under railroad tressels and under highway overpasses. How many apartments could be built for the homeless population instead of using my money to build some silly skatepark? How many meals could be bought to feed the hungry in Washtenaw county? How many other ways could that money be spent to improve the lives of the less fortunate? If the people that want the skatepark built put as much energy into helping the homeless, we might not have a homeless population. But that would require getting out of our own comfortable lives and starting to give a s**t about something of substance rather than some silly skatepark that most people (who are actually paying for it) won't even be able to use.

Trevor Staples

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 4:56 p.m.

Thanks so much for the support, everyone! Here's our update on last week's skate-art auction, and last night's unveiling of the conceptual design at the Ann Arbor Art Center. Check it out! http://www.a2skatepark.org/articles/skatepark-art-show-and-conceptual-design-unveiling

kkichikawa

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 3:28 p.m.

If they've raised "about $80,000" with "up to $400,000" in matching funds available for project, that is "about $160,000" toward an "$800,000 to $1 million" project. I know if City Council made the final decision, they'd press on with the project, despite the shortage of funding, and make cuts elsewhere within the Parks system. Maybe only fill the pools 3/4 full, make the golf courses 15 holes and there would only be 1st base, 2nd base and home plate on the ball diamonds...wait they could save even MORE if they only mowed left and center field... "BRILLIANT!" Good luck with the project!

kittybkahn

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 1:12 p.m.

I'm responding to "Sam Sneed" and the other naysayers about the skate park. In fact, the Ann Arbor City Council unanimously approved the skate park over a year ago. You only have to search annarbor.com and you will find many articles about it. The skate park will not ruin Vets Park, but will enhance it. And it will provide a wonderful place for everyone to enjoy - whether they are skateboarders or observers. Let's get positive, people. -Peace, Kitty

5c0++ H4d13y

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 1:08 p.m.

@sam sneed Actually the skatepark committee is working with the city and county planners for this project. That doesn't mean it's approved to break ground but but the committee isn't making up this location. I live near vets park and find it to be underused. If you go by there during daylight hours you'll find it mostly empty. It's generally only used for after work ball games and weekend little league but only in season. The skatepark would add a place for unscheduled unstructured activity for kids (and adults) to vets park. That means people can enjoy the park year round all days of the week. Plus it's on the bus line so kids can come from around the area on their own.

a2idealist

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 10:31 a.m.

I love it, looks great. Can't wait to be able to take my kids there. Good work, everyone!

a2tom

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 9:07 a.m.

Wow, this place looks amazing! it might make me bust off the old board so I can break some bones. It seems hard to believe that something like that could come in at under a million bucks though.

5c0++ H4d13y

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 8:24 a.m.

@DDOT1962 You're invited to the ribbon cutting.

Jack

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 7:50 a.m.

Is there a larger picture so I can read all of the labels?

DDOT1962

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 7:12 a.m.

Yeah...wow...that thing's never going to be built. Nice idea, though!

5c0++ H4d13y

Sun, May 23, 2010 : 6:09 a.m.

@A24eva There's no outright half pipe some of the bowls are plenty deep and there is a type of 3/4 pipe. Maybe this link will work showing the site. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ann+arbor+mi&sll=42.328093,-83.748779&sspn=1.1513,2.054443&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ann+Arbor,+Washtenaw,+Michigan&ll=42.284719,-83.77904&spn=0.00225,0.004013&t=h&z=18

A24eva

Sat, May 22, 2010 : 11:41 p.m.

Call me old-school, but where's the half-pipe?

jrigglem

Sat, May 22, 2010 : 11:03 p.m.

Yay!! Been rooting for this for years. Good Job Everyone!

Larry Works

Sat, May 22, 2010 : 9:38 p.m.

No ball field will disappear. It will be in the NW corner of the park and incorporate existing trees. Spot was chosen with help from the city planning commission. Vets is already sport-friendly and the elevation that corner provides is enough to make things exciting for skaters and spectators alike.

Rose

Sat, May 22, 2010 : 8:20 p.m.

Where is there that much space? Are they taking away a ball field?

Phil Dokas

Sat, May 22, 2010 : 7:36 p.m.

Whereabouts on Dexter Ave is this being planned for?