Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.

Two peas in a pod. Slinging mud with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Disgusting behavior. GN&GL

Lorain Steelmen

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.

Ed I share your disgust. As a fellow alum, I appreciate your post. It was obvious from articles here, what LC was doing. I never got close enough to observe it first hand, but I too, am amazed that the athlectic department, actually kept this guy on board, paying him a huge salary, while he worked to undermine the one program in the department that carries everything else. I hope LC will move to Florida.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 5:50 p.m.

"as a former player I have witnessed first hand LC undermining of RR" You can, of course, provide specific examples, since you have allegedly witnessed it? Of course you can. GN&GL

Dusty

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 8:04 p.m.

You know, we have a pretty good o-line and d-line considering RR "recruited skilled players and ignoring the trenches". Oh, and "he had support from everyone!!!!!" - read the book. He absolutely, positively did not.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 5:52 p.m.

"I direct your attention to Ed Daggetts post below." You mean where Daggett, like Miss Lorraine, makes charges completely unsubstantiated by any facts? Just like the Republican noise machine: repeat a lie often enough, maybe you can get people to believe it. GN&GL

Lorain Steelmen

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.

heartbrreakM; I appreciate and respect your response. When I supported Miles(2) for the job, and more so, Harbaugh(1), I based my comclusions on their coaching ability. (In retrospect, Miles has behaved poorly in some matters calling into question his character.) Certainly, it was well known that Carr opposed Miles as well. We don't know about his opinion of Harbaugh. I direct your attention to Ed Daggetts post below. And I rest my case, realtive to Carr. I only 'called out' Carr, AFTER, he began to undermine the program. Not while he was coaching. As for Hoke I really like this guy. But I am still, 'not a respector of persons', and never wil be. I think Hoke is NOT duplicitous, as Carr was, and I think Hoke puts the kids, and the university, before self. He is refreshing after the Carr behavior. RR was NOT my choice, and I only meet him once, and obviously did not play for him. (Bit I HAVE talked to former coaches of current players, who have shared that the kids loved RR, and were loyal to him.) But as an outsider looking in, I have been appalled by the shabbly behavior by socalled UM fans.

heartbreakM

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 2:46 p.m.

LS: Whatever. No amount of reasonable explanation will convince you. But to call me a frontrunner? Don't think so. In fact, there are times when you support the institution more than the individual wearing the hat because you believe in the ideals and what the place is about (which at michigan is about more than winning though winning is a big part of it). The one thing I have never heard you mention is 'character' which to me is where Hoke is totally the right guy. I personally like Les Miles, but some of the things that have gone on down at LSU would make me think that his character would not be a good fit at all for UM, even if we won a lot. The things that I objected to about former coach well preceded the time he decimated our program on the field, and most of it had to do with character. But there will be no convincing you, as long as he had the block M on his visor.

Lorain Steelmen

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 2:05 p.m.

Carr did not maintain a strong program. (Appy State being the last straw, in th edeterioration.) Nevertheless I strongly supported him as long as he was the headcoach. I have supported the HC here, since 1965, Bump Elliott. I know what I am talking about. But, after he 'retired', Carr worked to undermine the program, and was NOT 'honoring' the program. When his actions surfaced, I felt compelled that he needed to be called out on it. Carr WAS responsible for this mess. No one else. When the RR haters blamed the program's problems on the guy that was brought in to FIX those problems, I have to question both their sanity and their loyalty. It was RR that was wearing the M on his hat, at that point. And we should have supported him. Moeller, Hanlon, and leach did support him, as great examples of Michigan men. Carr did NOT. As far as RR goes, I have always supported him while he was the HC. (My personal choice would have been Miles, or Harbaugh...not RR, because I happen to believe in 'defense first'.). That does NOT qualify me as a RR 'lover', or MCC, but that, and similar distortions, have been leveled at me and others, who have had the 'guts' to stand up and say, that RR was not fairly treated, while here. And, in fact, that a facton with in the University actively sought to make SURE he failed. Comments otherwise, are pure fiction. Now we see John Bacon exposing these truths, and predictably, he is getting the same treatment, that I, and some other fans, have received for three years. These attacks were/are absurd. In short, 'that dog won't hunt'. Now you want us to believe that you'll support Hoke. Righttttt! You are what we used to call 'front runners, nothing more. You are not UM fans at all, but are much more like osu (or msu) fans.....simple frontrunners.

heartbreakM

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 9:04 p.m.

LS Just as you continue to criticize those who don't like the former coach questioning their loyalty to UM, you sure do spend a lot of time criticizing the heck out of Lloyd Carr. You hardly have a post where you don't dig out the old claims of cupboard bare, deterioration of program, etc. Well, if you are so dogged in your feeling that Carr messed the program up, I don't know how you could have put up with any of the antics of the last 3 years. As "bad" as it got under Carr, that was paradise compared to the shtick. Just the embarrassment to UM over the probation and the lawsuit when former coach got here were way over the line compared to anything UM got from Carr. Carr respected the university and honored it any way he could. And my dislike of the coach had nothing to do with hillbilly or whatever. It was all about being the wrong pick and questioning his loyalty to his own alma mater and the manner in which he left them--especially after signing a contract and proclaiming that he was a Mountaineer for life (so to speak, in 1/07 after turning down Bama). And then his actions turned me off even more. Not being snooty but rather, being realistic.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 8:02 p.m.

Pure fiction by the MCC's chief fictioneer. No facts. Just slanderous statements that have absolutely no basis in fact. GN&GL

Lorain Steelmen

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 7:38 p.m.

You can't blame RR for the loss to Appy State, nor the fact that the cupboard was bare when he walked in here, nor the previous coach Carr, consuling Mallett to cut and run. No, the 'black eye' goes to those that undermined a coach here, while he was trying to rebuild it, from the from the weakened program he inherited. Mattison and Hoke were hired intially by Gary Moeller, not Carr. Had Mo been given the chance to stay on, he may well have groomed Hoke as his replacement, similar to his grooming by Bo Just think, we would have avoided the Carr deteriortaions entirely, that took place from 2002 to 2007. Hoke might have 5 years under his belt here, by now. I know when Mo was canned, Bo was out of town, (Traverse City I believe), on vacation, and had he been in AA, would have come to Moeller's defense. That as it turns out, was the first inkling we had of the anti-UM faction, within the university family. (The holier than thou crowd.) Moeller, a good and decent man, was treated poorly by the U. Little did we know that it would survive and grow, through Carr's regime, and re-assert itself, when RR came in. One of the greatest traits Hoke has, is his 'hands on' approach to coaching the kids. Check out where he is during pregame warmups. Not at the 50 politicking like Carr did.

1st Down

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 12:47 a.m.

Wrong Lorain. I supported RR big time the first year...but by the end of the year, I saw 5 ALARMING TRENDS 1) the team was TERRIBLY coached 2) the HC was constantly pointing fingers and making excuses...blaming others for his problems and trying to say that the "cupboard was bare" 3) the HC and his strength and conditioning staff were constantly promoting itself in the media... it was ALL about them and not about Michigan 4) Recruiting was down...they were recrutiing skilled players and ignoring the trenches. Good players were leaving the program due to hatred for the HC and his methods 5) the HC had many personal issues... several million dollar lawsuits against him.. narcissistic edge and lawsuits with WVU were all on him and his doing alone... do you see Coach Hoke having any of these issues????? any??? So yeah... please do not put words in my mouth...I totally gave RR the chance... he had support from everyone!!!! RR alone blew it. He was in over his head and he su-ked at Michigan.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 6:13 p.m.

One last thing, LS. This will probably get censored and, if it does, that would be unfortunate. When you are posting about the things YOU saw on the football field, there is no better poster on A2.com. PERIOD. Your comments are insightful, they reveal a great knowledge of the game and, even if I disagree with them (which is very seldom), your posts represent reasonable conclusions based on what happened in the game. NO ONE BETTER. But when the topic moves to the former coaching staff, an entirely different on-line personality emerges. It is one that is not interested in facts, it is one that slanders anyone who deigns offer a different opinion (witness your class-based rant above), and it is one that frequently makes it up (again, witness your class-based rant above). I sure would like to see a lot more of the former version of LS and a lot less of the latter. You and I will never agree on RichRod. Never. But let's try to let the insightful fact-based LS post opinions on that subject? OK? GN&GL

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 4:42 p.m.

"They were anti RR rom the first day he was hired." Yes. As noted above, citing the statistics of the last three year = hate. And therefore, ignoring the statistics of the last three years = terminal case of man crush disease. That notwithstanding, I think that someone has a nearly equally fatal case of class consciousness in their efforts to explain their fetish for the WCiMFH as well as in their flights of fancy about why people were upset by the three-year disaster that was his tenure. Yep, had nothing to do his miserable record. It was all because he was a blue collar boy. Talk about living in an illusion! GN&GL

1st Down

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 8:05 a.m.

"First Down -- The Inspirational Story behind Brady Hoke and the New Michigan Wolverines Domination" by 1st Down Coming soon to an online bookstore near you.

lindor

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:22 p.m.

Or he had a contract with a publisher he was required to complete.

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.

LOL! That will ruffle feathers!

mun

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 9:15 p.m.

"Rich Rod had a great offense...." Until they played actual defenses in the Big Ten, then the offense was neutralized.

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 11:56 a.m.

RR's offense was a one trick pony offense like he had with Pat White. What did that offense do in the Big Ten?

heartbreakM

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:53 a.m.

Oops--got Denard Robinson injured in nearly every game....

heartbreakM

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:52 a.m.

His "great" offense led the nation in 3 and outs in his first year. His "great" offense got Denard Robinson in nearly every game last year, and got Sam McGuffie repeat concussions 3 years ago. His "great" offense scored all of 14 points against Miss State, 7 points last year against OSU, 28 against Wisconsin, most in garbage time, etc etc etc. His "problem" was entire management of the team and coaching staff. Too often, players were confused, head coach was confused, assistants were fighting, players on sideline were not ready to come in, the team was disorganized. That is not coaching. That is bumbling, and the results showed. Jim Harbaugh had a great offense and great organization (at Stanford) and in 4 games at San Francisco, is doing much the same.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 1:24 a.m.

That "great" offense was, at best, mediocre when it encountered a well-coached defense. For example, EMU score more points against OSU last year than did UofM's "great" offense. GN&GL

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 1:34 a.m.

LS wrote: "many UM grads who believe that they are better than everyone else, looked down their noses at RR when he was hired," More fiction from the MCC's chief fictioneer. And this so-called UM fans needs to go to an OSU fan to finds support for that fiction. How desperate can they be? GN&GL

Lorain Steelmen

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:35 p.m.

'The osu' is right about one thing, namely, that many UM grads who believe that they are better than everyone else, looked down their noses at RR when he was hired, because he was from West Virgina. It's sad to say, but it is a 'black eye' that will stay with this program for generations.

heartbreakM

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:45 a.m.

OSU: Your program has problems much larger than anything you accuse Michigan of. Your players continue to get suspended for breaking very basic rules; there are no insitutional rules at OSU--the only rule is "beat UM and the rest we ignore"; the head coach lied to the NCAA and his own institution, and your own fine AD continues to lie his way out of that one by blaming the deposed coach. You can pick on UM all you want, but most UM fans/alumni/staff clearly knew that former coach was the wrong pick for the job. It was a desperation pick and he did not represent the school well, nor was he familiar with the school, its football and university history, or its athletic conference. He arrogantly thought he knew better than 125 or so years of Michigan history, and knew better than any existing staff. He was a failure in any sense of the word, and if there was any doubt, you can compare his first 10 months with Hoke's first 10 months. Former coach's problems were pretty much self-induced while Hoke has embraced the history, the expectations, and is not afraid to suspend star players if needed, even if it might cost him a victory. Heck, former coach's first Michigan action was to get it involved in a lawsuit with his old employer, where it was very clear that he reneged on a months old contract and he tried to get out of it. That is not "looking down the nose". That is maintaining ethics, being accountable, and not embarrassing the university. Hoke will be fine through losses because he will lose with class just as he wins with class. And there is no doubt that he absolutely treasures this university, this job, and these players. (And look at the way his old players at SDSU treated him after the game last week--with tons of respect and admiration, unlike RR's old players who hated him for what he did).

tim

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:15 p.m.

"They live in a world that thinks Michigan is inherently different and better. Nobody can fulfill that mandate because it just isn't true". I think OSU has the same issue, they're going to be hunting for the best coach in the land after this season. OSU and their fan base won't stand for an average big ten team.

Ray

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:42 p.m.

The fact of the matter is that Michigan now has a coaching staff that will get it done, where as the former staff was average at best. Anything positive this year is a bonus. I am a Wolverine supporter and have been my whole life, but the RR era was hard to watch. Here's to many big ten championships, GO BLUE.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:49 p.m.

Well said, MS. We may cross swords on other issues, but in this we are in complete agreement. We need to have a beer together sometime and discuss football, not politics! GN&GL

truebluefan

Thu, Oct 6, 2011 : 3:56 a.m.

Biggest difference between this year and last year is the defense. Nobody doubted that the defense was bad last year and it was bad because of Greg Robinson. Give Michigan an average defense last year and that team gets 9 wins.

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 11:35 a.m.

With RR, his teams squeaked by weak teams and lose big with decent teams. Hoke's teams are not the same.

MRunner73

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:33 p.m.

You are entitled to your opinion and speculation that a 2011 Rich Rod football would likewsie be 5 and 0. I did back Rich Rod and I thank him for recruiting fine young men to play for the Maize and Blue. Many of the players on this year's defense are now in their second year and should be better than last year, even under Rich Rod. Under Hoke and Mattison, they are several levels better. Let's see how well the Maize and Blue play on the road the next two weeks. That should resolve a lot of speculation on all of our part. I am confident about our chances.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.

There is no doubt that we are yet to hit the tough part of our schedule. But I suggest you look at last year's team and its inability to put away the powder puffs (e.g., UMass and Indiana) as but one example of the team's improvement. Yep, this team could collapse like last year's did (losing 6 of its last 8 games) and like the 2009 team did (losing 7 of its last 8 games). But I don't see that happening. The on-the-field performance is starkly better. Their conditioning clearly is better (shocking number of players under the past regime who clearly were completely gassed late in games). And this coaching staff makes in-game adjustments where the past regime made few if any. Frankly, this team has exceeded my expectations. I thought 4-1 was likely at this point in the season and 3-2 possible (SDSU is a solid team). Forgive us for being happy with the teams's success after three years of incompetent coaching. Good Night and Good Luck

lindor

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:48 p.m.

This is 110% inaccurate. If what you are saying is true the book would be against RR, which I have heard (and as the article indicates) couldn't be farther from the truth. It also says very little about your knowledge of Bacon as a person and journalist.

truebluefan

Thu, Oct 6, 2011 : 3:54 a.m.

Who can't win with Denard and the returning #10 offense in the country? A better question is, who CAN win with Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet?

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.

"It's hard to do a lot of "crafting" around Steven Threet" Not at all true. Threet transferred to Arizona State and was its starting QB in the spread offense last year--successfully so--until he suffered a career ending concussion. GN&GL

Rob Pollard

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:09 p.m.

It's hard to do a lot of "crafting" around Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan. By all accounts they were nice and upstanding young men, but they weren't (and didn't) succeed no matter what system they were in. If RR walked in with a junior Denard Robinson and a 2nd-year Devin Gardner, an experienced OL, etc, he would have suddenly become much smarter. That said, I wish Hoke and everyone well this season and hope they get 9+ wins. Unfortunately, 2012 will be the reality check as that schedule is probably twice as hard as this year's. The team could be better next year and only have 7 or so wins.

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 11:33 a.m.

RR forced his offense to LC's players and then complained that he the cupboard was bare. lol

1st Down

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:41 a.m.

well said. Rodriguez is a narcissist and it was all about him. That is why he commissioned Bacon to write this book about HIS program. It was always about promoting RR and not about Michigan.

missionbrazil

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:05 p.m.

Well said. It is Hoke's attitude and approach that has brought success and is the reason so many fans are behind him. It was RR's approach and arrogance that turned off some people, and ultimately his losing record that caused many people to want him to be fired.

truebluefan

Thu, Oct 6, 2011 : 3:52 a.m.

RR won with these same players. Or is 7-6 not a winning record in your world?

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:58 p.m.

People with man crushes work in a different logical plane. Good Night and Good Luck

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 11:32 a.m.

Carr left the cupboard bare? lol! Even Brady Hoke did something with the players RR could not coach properly.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 1:21 a.m.

Interesting how irrefutable facts = hating RichRod. Diagnosis: a terminal case of man crush disease. GN&GL

missionbrazil

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:02 a.m.

"Ghost and Brazil, need to let go of all this RR hatred" I didn't write 1 word about RR in my response to your comment. I wrote about YOU !

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:41 p.m.

@mun: Don't confuse 'em with actual FACTS!!!! GN&GL

mun

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:27 p.m.

"I do believe that RR would have faired better, if Carr hadn't left the cupboard bare," Michigan had 8 returning starters on defense that year. Not exactly bare.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:12 p.m.

But you are correct in one thing. The fan base will turn on Hoke if, after three years, his record looks anything like this: *6-18 in the Big Ten *0-12 against Big Ten teams with winning records *1-13 against MSU/OSU/PSU/Iowa/Wisky/ (and now, Nebraska) *Never finished higher than tied for 7th in the Big Ten *2-11 against teams that were in the Top 25 at the time the game was played *Winless against teams that finished the season in the Top 25. *Three straight seasons not in the Top 25 (had not happened since 1965, '66, and '67) *A defense that gets progressively worse over a three-year period. Admittedly this will be difficult to do, given that in 2010 we were 110th out of 120 teams in the FBS. *A mediocre offense against quality teams (e.g., EMU scored more points against OSU in 2010 than we did). *Worst bowl loss in Michigan history *2nd NCAA probation in Michigan history (since the WCiMFH brought on our first) Yep. If he "achieves" anything close to that record of failure, he will be in trouble, as he should be. But given the improvements I have seen over the first five games, I doubt that will be the case. But the MCC can keep a wishin' and a hopin' that Hoke will fail, as we know they are, as a way to justify their continued worship of the WCiMFH. GN&GL

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.

LS: It is you who keeps repeating the old excuses for the failures of the WCiMFH. Can't wait for you to dig Bo out of his grave to explain how he supported the hiring of the WCiMFH. Don't want to talk history? Then I suggest you take your own advice. GN&GL

Lorain Steelmen

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 8:48 p.m.

Ghost and Brazil, need to let go of all this RR hatred. It's getting really old. The rest of us have moved on. I know, for some time now, I have put it all behind me. And I suggest that you both do the same. Your quotes indicate that neither of you are ready to do that, but only want to keep digging open 'old wounds'. Carr allowed this program to degenerate. And yet still I supported him. But when he sought to undermine his replacement, he stepped over the line. While RR would not have been my choice, but once here, we all should have supported him. I don't consider people such as Brazil and Ghost as real UM fans. And I would NOT be at all surprised to see them turn on Hoke, in a 'new york minute'. Not sure what your agends are, but I don't have the time, nor inclination, to dig into it. LET GO, enough is enough!...... The rest of us want to post, on football.

missionbrazil

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:59 p.m.

You spent 4 paragraphs digging up the past and putting your spin on it, and then you say "SO my advice to UM fans is...let the past go. As UM fans we should be concentrating on the team and getting behind Hoke." Way to set the example and show how to do that !

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:31 p.m.

LOL. LOL. LOL. "Talked Mallett into leaving". Yeah. After the WCiMFH made clear, and quite publicly so, that Mallett did not have the skill set he wanted for his offense. And then, after Mallett left, the MCC proclaimed very loudly that he would have been useless to the WCiMFH and that he was no loss. It was only AFTER Mallett developed into one of the best college QBs in the country, and AFTER it was revealed that, having been rebuffed by the WCiMFH, Mallett went to Lloyd Carr for what turned out to be sage advice, that the MCC have decided that it might have been a good thing to have kept Ryan Mallett around. But, of course, because nothing is EVER the fault of the WCiMFH, it must be . . . wait for it . . . here it comes . . . . Lloyd Carr's fault!!!!!! Time for the MCC to start watching CBS on Saturdays rather than UM football. It's there that they will find the object of their desires. Good Night and Good Luck

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:32 p.m.

5) The defense is better. But there is no evidence that Robinson or his predecessor, Scott Shafer, were the problem. You've replied to my post above this where I have provided the details regarding Robinson and Shafer. Apparently not impressed with that, I guess. Oh well. Nothing was ever RichRod's fault. 6) A college football coach not treated fairly? A college football coach subject to sharp criticism? You mean the way far too many so-called "fans" treated and continue to treat Lloyd Carr? Golly Gee. Who'd have thunk it possible. I tire of hearing the excuses for the WCiMFH. He very much made his own bed when he arrived, and then blamed everyone else for the circumstances that he created. But I agree with you last: Go Blue GN&GL

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:26 p.m.

lindor: 1) Whether or not you or I liked the offensive scheme, it seems to me, is beside the point. The question is results. And however boring the 7-yard out pattern might be, and however exciting it might be to watch Denard, the only thing that matters at 7PM on a Saturday afternoon is whether or not we won. And at that most basic measurement, the immediate past coaching staff presided over the worst three years in Michigan history. 2) Mallett drank? Say it isn't so. So did Brian Griesse. Mallett had an attititude? hard to believe. I'm certain that the vast majority of scholarship athletes at FBS programs, having been coddled for most of their lives and told they can do no wrong, arrive at college with very self-effacing and modest attitudes (sarcasm button off) 3) And our offense was going to do a complete 180 this year, but Hoke and Borges quickly realized that it could not, and they therefore adapted their offense to the talent they had. This is what good coaches do. It is not what the last coach did, and the result was disaster. 4) Whether or not our offense is better than last year is a matter of opinion. Let me tell you two measures that impress me: 1) fewer turnovers, and 2) more TOP. Both mean that a problematic defense spends less time on the field. Good coaches with problematic defenses adopt an offensive philosophy that keeps that defense off the field. Can't count the number of times over the last three years we went three-and-out and burned less than a minute of clock time. That's not happening now, and we see the impact on the defensive side of the ball. (continued)

lindor

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:26 p.m.

5) Defense is clearly better. Well coached and ability to adjust. Something that has been non existent the past few years. That was an easy fix though, fire Robinson. Brandon didn't want that because he wanted to bring in a "Michigan Man" that new about the history of the program. Well excuse me, but I'm not sure high schoolers, 20 years removed from the Bo era, have a clue what Michigan football was about. In fact, it most of us complained about how boring it became. 6) For what it is worth, I didn't like the RR hiring. I thought he was whiner ever since WVU lost their conference final to play for the national title. Regardless, he knew how to coach and was not treated fairly here. It was a witch hunt from day one. We'll all see that in Bacon's book. You can regurgitate stats all you want, but when you fail to be objective you lose all credibility.

lindor

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:25 p.m.

@Murrow - Can't argue with your long lists of stats and never tried to. Take a look at how many players Lloyd signed to help rebuild our team in 2008, not so great a job. If Lloyd cared about the program at all he would have announced his retirement early so we could have built up that year's recruiting class, but he tanked. That didn't happen though because Lloyd and Martin don't get along. What you're missing.... 1) Mallett left because no one could stand him or respected him. He was arrogant, and worse, could be found at most campus watering holes any night of the week. And if I remember correctly, he wasn't so good that first year either and we had no other recruited QBs to step up. In fact we fell off at every position unlike year after year before where we just reloaded when recruiting. Whose fault is that? RR or Lloyd 2) Our offense did a complete 180 under RR. Changing personnel and teaching a new scheme take time, we didn't give him that. Not sure about you but I used to hate the 7 yard out on 3rd down when he had 10 to go. 3) We started off 4-0 and 5-0 in 2009 and 2010 respectively - much like this year. By your accounts Hoke is already a better coach than RR. Might be true, might not be. My point was it is still too early and we haven't beaten anyone. 4) Our offense is NOT better than it was last year. It has taken a step backwards. It isn't too far fetched to say we would have been far better under RR's system. What is clear so far is that Borges is trying to teach Denard to be a pro-style QB, solid footwork and mechanics, and it hasn't work out well. I can't believe how badly he has missed some throws. He's an athlete and you've got to let him play. That happened this weekend and he was on target.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.

Let me see if I understand your logic. Under the WCiMFH, the UM football program went: *6-18 in the Big Ten *0-12 against Big Ten teams with winning records *1-13 against MSU/OSU/PSU/Iowa/Wisky *Never finished higher than tied for 7th in the Big Ten *2-11 against teams that were in the Top 25 at the time the game was played *Winless against teams that finished the season in the Top 25. *Three straight seasons not in the Top 25 (had not happened since 1965, '66, and '67) *From 24th in the nation in defense in 2007 (Carr's last year), to 67th in 2008, to 84th in 2009, to 110/120 teams in 2010 *A mediocre offense against quality teams (e.g., EMU scored more points against OSU in 2010 than we did). *Worst bowl loss in Michigan history *1st NCAA probation in Michigan history And this is because the WCiMFH didn't get the support he wanted? Yeah. Stick to that story. Good Night and Good Luck

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:05 p.m.

"Pretty sure this book will detail how the anti-RR faction sought to destroy Rodriguez from the inside." Yeah. I read that in the above review. Not. And surely the reviewer would have mentioned it because it would have brought thousands of hits to this website. What does he say? "Carr is cool and distant." Gee. That's a shock. The WCiMFH has just fired Carr's entire staff save Fred Jackson, and he has run off nunmerous players Carr recruited. And then the WCiMFH very publicly complained about the "cupboard being empty," a refrain picked up and echoed by the fetishists. So, yeah. Carr was cool and distant. And the only person to blame for that is the WCiMFH. But, then, he never to responsibility for anything, did he. GN&GL.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:21 p.m.

Earned support. Respect is earned also. You can't take it, it has to be earned. Ego was your guys downfall. As for being blindsided, everybody who could read the paper, listen to sports on air, or follow a college football blog knew what was coming after another the end of year collapse by the WCiMFH. The fact that neither of you knew, well I'm glad I'm not that slow. He's gone because it was an awful coach. That made firing him that much easier.

mun

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:25 p.m.

@lindor "He's 5-0 with RR's players against 5 awful teams... " At least Brady Hoke is dominating those teams (outside of Notre Dame). Rich Rod struggled to beat lowly Indiana, UMass, Illinois, and Purdue last year.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:34 p.m.

"No one is going to argue with you about the D-coordinator hires made by RR." Unless you know the facts. His first DC, Scott Shafer, was enormously successful before arriving here and after leaving. His defense at Syracuse was #7 in the nation last year. This would cause a reasonable person to conclude that the defense's problems in 2008, the only year Shafer was here, had little to do with Shafer. Good Night and Good Luck

lindor

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:35 p.m.

He's 5-0 with RR's players against 5 awful teams... Let's see what happens this weekend on the road at NU and then at MSU. No one is going to argue with you about the D-coordinator hires made by RR... AWFUL... The answer wasn't keeping Ron English and I don't know what the answer is either. It could have been keeping RR for one more year and forcing him to hire a new DC like Mattison.... What are you going to say if we lose to MSU, ILL, OSU and Nebraska? RR's players? OUr offense has taken a step back, defense looks better, but not by much. I've had this same conversation the past 3 years - 4-0 (2009), 5-0 (2010), 5-0 (2011), but what happens from here forward will tell us a lot, especially about bandwagoners like you... Are you going to be asking for Hoke's head if we lose all 4 games? Are you going to say he needs more time, their RR's players... I want what is best for Michigan football, not just a Michigan Man as coach. That gets me nowhere besides telling my kids how our team used to play in the mid 80s and 90s.

alarictoo

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:11 p.m.

@TrueBlue - if RR had had a single brain in his head, he would have kept Ron English instead of pulling the "I'm replacing everyone with my cronies" routine. That was his biggest defensive coaching error.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.

&quot;It was the incompetent DC that couldn't make it work.&quot; Talk about a history re-write. 1) The WCiMFH brought in Scott Shafer in his first year, some one thought around the country to be a budding defensive genius. The rest of the D-staff came from WVU. The result was disaster and Shafer was the fall guy who got fired. For more on Shafer's career, including a one-year turn-around of the defense at Stanford (not conincidentally, Harbaugh's first year there): <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Shafer" rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Shafer</a> 2) Then the WCiMFH brought in the just fired Syracuse HC to be the DC with all of the WVU assistants. The result: things got even worse. 3) In the meantime, Shafer went to Syrcuse where he had the #7 rated defense in the NCAA last year. Source: <a href="http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O" rel='nofollow'>http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&amp;rpt=IA_teamtotdef&amp;site=org&amp;div=IA&amp;dest=O</a> So, which story do ya want to stick with?: 1) That the WCiMFH hired two incompetent DCs. If you like this story, there is no reason to think he was going to be any more cabable of finding a competent one. --or-- 2) That the common thread in the two DC's failures is the WCiMFH, the most damning evidence being Shafer's success both before arriving at the UM and his success after leaving. But then there is always the stock MCC answer, good for all occasions: It's all Lloyd Carr's fault. Time to watch CBS where you can worship your hero. GN&amp;GL

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.

Do you guys just up vote each other? 1984, that's a great example using Facebook. Didn't he lose a few hundred MILLION DOLLARS in a lawsuit over how the company started? I like my comparison of the Titanic and the WCiMFH. Looked good, and run ok for a while but lack of strong leadership at the top, not planning ahead, and a flawed in design doomed it from the start. Thankfully no one was killed in the hiring of the WCiMFH.

truebluefan

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.

Rodriguez assembled this offense. Rodriguez and staff recruited the defensive players that Cousin Eddie stated weren't B1G caliber. I'm pretty sure that the players are just fine and they'll show it this season. It was the incompetent DC that couldn't make it work. Too bad Rich didn't get a chance to replace Greg Robinson. Brandon blindsided Rich. BTW, Brandon went to bat for *Michigan* in that ridiculous NCAA investigation. He didn't care a lick about Rodriguez.

GoBlue1984

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:57 p.m.

According to Edward if Zuckerburg were to be somehow fired from Facebook and Brady Hoke were hired, all of Facebook's success would be because of Brady (the guy currently leading the company). Nevermind that Zucerkburg built it from the ground up... let's just write him off completely (unless we're complaining about something related to Facebook). You BaHAAGG (Bo and His Assistants Are God Groupies) are getting worse and worse by the minute. All Hail Edward. King of the BaHAAGG. I'm going to go enjoy reality. Feel free to join me anytime.

Meangoblue

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:52 p.m.

Colonel Klink! You a brilliant man! MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEANchigan will return from the latrine! If y'all don't believe it go back to stalag thirteen!

Dusty

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 8:02 p.m.

I love how Edward R Murrow's Ghost's only argument to anything is to invoke the &quot;MCC&quot; and insult people. He probably realized long ago that Rich Rod was screwed over and just doesn't want to admit he was wrong.

Hebner

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 1:37 a.m.

What were the recruiting rankings of Michigan's past three years? Hoke and staff are challenging these guys to be as good as they can be. RR and Co. didn't do that...it was about the spread plays in his hand and beating Purdue! How about Will Campbell!, who wanted him to play OT? 3 and out... He was a great coach for the punter! lots of game experience.

EyeonAA

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 6:56 p.m.

They are Rodriguez's players in name only. The linemen were smaller versions of themselves. The defense was clueless after three years of teaching a scheme neither defensive coordinator liked or understood. Rich Rod is a great offensive coordinator - until you play big guys who are just as fast as your quick, little guys. When that happens, the only team you can beat is Notre Dame.

mun

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:18 p.m.

&quot;Anyone with a cursory knowledge of football could lead Michigan to 5-0 right now with the stocked roster Rodriguez left&quot; Brady Hoke and Greg Mattison actually know defense, unlike Rich Rod and Greg Robinson.

lindor

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:45 p.m.

@MRunner Again, no one argues our DC stunk and we needed someone new to coach them. But to the rest of your points.... 1) Any concern about our D against SDSU and Western is complete speculation, we can never know. Our offense would have been better in the same scheme so we would have put up more points against them than we did. 2) ND SHOULD HAVE rolled up 40-50 points against us. I'm under no illusions, we got lucky there. 3) We'd still be 5-0. Thats the reality.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:08 p.m.

The only people pining away for the WCiMFH are the fetishists who can't get over their man crushes. I guarantee that no one on the football team misses him and his drama queen antics. GN&amp;GL

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.

I don't understand the word &quot;yay&quot;. And everything written after it. They can't be the WCiMFH's players because they sign a LOI to go to Michigan, not the University of Bad Defensive Coaching and No Special Teams. I'll tell you what. You go ask all the returning starter who they want to play for, Coach Hoke or your lost love. Anyone with a passing interest of this team knows the answer, so let's stop drinking the kool-ade. TiM Go Blue! (Tell uncle rod I said &quot;Hi&quot;.)

a2citizen

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:01 p.m.

Bo Schembechler won with Bump Elliot's players. Gary Moeller won with Bo Schembechler's players. Lloyd Carr won with Gary Moeller's players. Why couldn't RR carry on that tradition?

MRunner73

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.

Very good point about the roster stocked with Rich Rod's players. This to me makes Brady Hoke and his coaching staff more special, why? because in my view, the defense this year would have improved but not at this level. My fear is that under the Rich Rod defensive scheme, they would not have stopped Alex Carder, the WMU QB and we would have gotten beaten. The ND offense would have rolled up 40-50 points or we would have seen another 67-65 game. SDSU would have rolled up a ton of points and we might have lost. My take is Rich Rod would have had a 2 and 3 record season to date. I backed him into the Gator Bowl and then realized that worst would yet come....sorry but this is where I differ in opion.

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:04 p.m.

GoBlue1984 - Are you saying that Hoke will lose in November? The only way Hoke loses is if they copy RR style on both offense and defense.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.

1984 Aren't you the same guy who said we would miss the WCiMFH when Coach Hoke was hired? No? Or maybe the guy who still thinks the Titanic was 80% successful because it made it most of the way to New York?! I know, you're the &quot;spin&quot; doctor for political misfits.

GoBlue1984

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:24 p.m.

Come November I'm sure we'll see &quot;Brady Who?&quot; ... gotta love the bandwagoners after a 58-0 drubbing of a team that lost to North Dakota State at home.

Dusty

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 7:59 p.m.

Wow. &quot;Bacon in bed with Rodriguez explains the pro RR stance and the anti Carr lies.&quot; John U. Bacon is one of the most respected journalists in the country. The book started before the 2008 season, long before anybody knew how RR's teams would perform, and was supposed to be nothing more than a story about the transition of Michigan football to the spread offense. But of course, ignorance is king around here. No matter how impeccable the integrity of the journalist, if they try to convince anyone that RR wasn't the devil himself, they must have sold out... It's people like you who are &quot;disgusting.&quot;

XTR

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:03 p.m.

Thank you for the info and reply Jim, nice preview of this book.

1st Down

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:35 a.m.

ahh.... so Bacon in bed with Rodriguez explains the pro RR stance and anti Carr lies. Bacon is disgusting. There is a word for him that starts with a P...as in P--ped out the Michigan program for a few bucks. not cool.

Jim Knight

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.

XTR: Bacon's agreement was with Rodriguez. The original plan was for the two to collaborate on a book on Rodriguez's first season with Michigan, but after a rough first year that idea was scrapped. After that, Bacon continued to have access, but it became his book.

johnnya2

Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 1 a.m.

In an interview RR said he felt like a cook who made the meal and did not get to eat it. I would say it is more like a person who picked up the ingredients (players) and did not know how to make those flavors work in harmony to create a great meal. RR was a minor success in the Big East, though lost when he had the chance to win a big game. To invoke RR in the same sentence as Nick Saban is just stupidity. I guess Bob Stoops was a bad coach because he won with another coaches players. So did Urban Meyer. As did Saban, and Miles, and Carr, and Tressel, and the Auburn coach, GOOD coaches win in the first 3 years. As for running the spread offense. Imagine that, a coach who can adjust his offensive philosophy to work with the talent he is given. Unlike another one who would force an immobile QB to try to be something he isn't.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.

As already stated DRob was recruited to play QB AFTER the WCiMFH lost two other players. Roh was played out of positon for most of last year because of bad coaching. JK had to try out TWICE before making the team under the WCiMFH. DG might have lost a year of playing time because the WCiMFH wanted to make a point to Tate last year vs BG. A whole year so he could make a point? Yeah, that's insanely stupid for your &quot;cheating redneck who was run out of town&quot;. Is Michigan football in better hands, offense, defense, and special teams, under Coach Hoke than your guy? Yes or No? Come on, man up!

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.

Yeah. He's so brilliant and in such high demand among prestigious FBS programs that he couldn't get a gig after being fired. Which means Charlie Weis is more highly though of than the WCiMFH. LOL Yeah, he almost took the job at Bama. And everyone in Tuscaloosa is breathing a sigh of relief that they dodged that bullet. Again, time to watch your boy on CBS. GN&amp;GL

GoBlue1984

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:45 p.m.

If you think Rich Rodriguez is a failure then there's no hope for your sanity. The man was offered the head coaching gig at Alabama and he almost went to the National Championship with West Virginia (year after year he made them relevant). Yeah, he's a failure alright. Good morning and GOOD LUCK. You're gonna need the luck!

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:40 p.m.

Yeah, The WCiMFH had sooooooooooooooooo much success with those guys when he allegedly coached 'em. Now we have a football coach, not a self-indulgant wannabe. Let me suggest that the MCC need to quit watching UM football and instead they ought tune in the SEC on CBS. You ought be able to get your fill of the WCiMFH there. Maybe they can cut a deal with ABC and get Matt Millen in the same booth. Talk about two guys who were historic failures. GN&amp;GL

GoBlue1984

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:19 p.m.

Edward... you're always good for a laugh at least. I'm thankful we have Coach Hoke too... his recruitment of Denard Robinson and decision to give him a chance at QB in the spread was GENIUS! Oh, wait... Well, Hoke's recruitment of Craig Roh and decision to play him early in his career has really paid off... Oh, wait again... Okay, hmm... well how about Coach Hoke's ability to open up opportunities for walk-ons so that a guy like Jordan Kovacs could become a starter on D... wait, that's not right either... Well, getting Devin Gardner in the fold so that when Denard leaves we won't be left holding the bag... gosh, that doesn't seem to check out either. Who stocked this team full of talent then? It couldn't be that cheating redneck you all ran out of town could it? Enjoy your promising season Coach Hoke. Make sure to send Rich Rodriguez a big thank you card, too.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.

And the MCC is heard from. A rational person not operating under the intoxication of a man crush would note: 1) Denard is having far fewer touches than last year, with the reuslt being that . . . 2) The offense is much more diverse and therefore much more difficult to defend 3) The offense has set up in a classsic I and has had success. The offense has set up in the diamond formation with Denard and Devin in the same backfield. Don't recall seeing that in the playbook last year. 4) The offense has a fullback. The full back has carried the ball. The fullback has caught passes. The fullback has done run blocking. Tell me: when in three years did the WCiMFH employ a fullback on anything other than goal line situations?, and then frequently with failure? 5) And then there's the defense. Yeah. They're RichRod's guys. Well, except for Martin, Woolfolk, and Floyd (arguably the three best players on the team), all of whom were recruited by Lloyd Carr. And except for Kovacs who, thank God, walked on. But yeah, they're his guys--and they're doing what they never did under the so-called &quot;leadership&quot; of the WCiMFH: playing defense. And this has helped the offense greatly because, for those whose visions weren't blinded by a man-crush, it was clear for the last two years that Forcier and Denard took chances they ought not have taken because they had no confidence that the defense could hold the other team. There clearly was a sesne that they had to score every time they had the ball. That sense is no longer there, with the result that the number of offensive turnovers has dropped precipitously. We're 5-0, playing better ball than at any point in the previous three years, and the MCC fetishists can't let it go. Disappointing but not at all surprising. Good Night and Good Luck

GoBlue1984

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:30 p.m.

Brady Hoke is running a spread offense and winning games with Rodriguez's guys... Les Miles won a championship with Nick Saban's players -- yes, it's technically Les Miles' championship because he was the coach, but you and I both know that title belongs to Nick Saban. The same is true for Rich Rodriguez with regards to Michigan's success this year. Every year under Rodriguez Michigan saw improvement in the win column. With all of the returning starters for this year Coach Rod finally had everything lined up... unfortunately he was fired by David Brandon because Brandon wanted one of &quot;Bo's guys&quot; to get the credit. It's cheap and it's low, but it's Michigan.

heartbreakM

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:55 p.m.

One thing I will comment on, though, without reading the book yet is that there has been this notion that factions and others in the university who did not fully support the former coach were the reason for his failure. I do wish to quibble about that. It is always easy to blame others for your problems, and nobody coached Michigan to go 3-9 except the head coach and his staff. I do find it hard to believe that there was such a dramatic talent drop off after 40 years of continued success to have caused such a precipitous drop. And it continued for 3 years, though with some minimal improvement over those years. But what is clear from this year is that accountability, coaching, and knowledge of the place are immeasurable in terms of success. Did former coach get hung out to dry regarding the forms? From this review, it would seem so. But there was so much more to his failures than that. And his continued comments in the CBS spots show that, regardless of what Bacon writes.

Blu n Tpa

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.

RWB Coach Hoke won't let this even come up &quot;in house&quot;. The players are already his and anyone not already buying in are most likely on their way out. I hope not because there are more lessons to be learned from this staff than just football. I didn't think anyone got &quot;hosed&quot;. He put himself under the spot light, so everybody noticed when he messed up. The results are all you need to know.

RWBill

Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:42 p.m.

Yes, don't want / need distractions like this about previous years right now as the team is poised to make a run at a very good season. Brady will have to deflect any media interest about this but he'll be very good about that. Also agree Rich probably got hosed a bit all along. I liked him and his forthrightness but the uncompetitive status of the team against top 25 teams made his continuation undefensible.