Suspended Michigan players Fitz Toussaint, Frank Clark cleared to practice
Fitz Toussaint, who missed the first week of Michigan practices, has been cleared to rejoin the team.
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
Both players missed the first week of workouts after run-ins with the law. Toussaint, the Wolverines' starting tailback, was arrested last month in Ann Arbor on a drunken-driving charge.
Clark, a candidate to start at weak-side defensive end, is accused of stealing a laptop from a campus dorm and is charged with second-degree home invasion. His next court date is Sept. 11.
Both players remain indefinitely suspended, and Hoke said he has not yet determined whether either will be available for the season opener Sept. 1 against Alabama.
“They paid a heavy price and will continue to pay a price for actions unbecoming of a Michigan football player,” Hoke said.
Is there a chance they'll be available?
"I wish I could tell ya," Hoke said.
Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at kylemeinke@annarbor.com and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.
Comments
TheWay
Tue, Aug 14, 2012 : 8:06 a.m.
Why does it sound like Hoke isn't the one making the decisions regarding Toussaint and Clark? "I wish I could tell ya" sounds like "sorry, The Brand is making the call."
Tom
Tue, Aug 14, 2012 : 3:25 a.m.
Would Jabba the Hoke have let Fitz play vs. Bama if he had killed someone? I'm guessing yes. Hoke is a JOKE! Moeller Rules!
Ron Granger
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:29 p.m.
Anyone else remember last year when Sparty coach Dontano allowed a CONVICTED FELON WHO PLEAD GUILTY to practice with the team? I am certain it is only a coincidence that Kwame Kilpatrick received his law degree from MSU. "EAST LANSING, Mich. (Detroit Free Press)- Michigan State coach Mark Dantonio said today at a news conference at Spartan Stadium that he has reinstated sophomore tight end Dion Sims for spring practice. Sims had been suspended since September for his role in a crime ring that stole and sold more than $158,000 in laptop computers from Detroit Public Schools buildings. "Dion will be reinstated for spring ball here," Dantonio said. "At this point in time he has done everything we asked him to do." Sims pleaded guilty in October to one felony count of receiving and concealing stolen property. In December, he was sentenced to one year of probation under the Holmes Youthful Trainee Act." http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/160072/0/Michigan-State-reinstates-Dion-Sims-for-spring-football-practice
Tom
Tue, Aug 14, 2012 : 3:27 a.m.
He plead guilty and missed an entire season. He was re-instated the next spring and has had no issues since. Kid got what he deserved. Clark missed 4 practices...ENABLER! Will the number of chUMp wins exceed the number of arrests? 7 and counting!
Pete Scribner
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.
I don't recall reading in this article that either of these young men will be playing against Alabama, Air Force, or any other opponent this year. All it says is that they are cleared to practice. Darryl Stonum was suspended for the entire 2011 season but was also practiced all season. Why is everyone jumping to the conclusion that they will play? Go Blue!
SEC Fan
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 11:50 p.m.
Tom, you are my hero!
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:07 p.m.
How about watching practice and not practicing? HYPOCR(ISLER)ASY! Funny how the excuses come out when the shoe is on the other foot? 7 football arrests in 7 months? LMFAO! No wonder that Jabba the Hoke was 47-50 before the fluke 2011 season. Where's the threat?
AJ - Brighton
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 1:48 p.m.
Hoke - No Values - He thinks he needs these bodies to win!
discgolfgeek
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 1:18 p.m.
Letting them practice is the right choice. It keeps them engaged and out of trouble. I do not expect them to play and if Clark is convicted, he's gone. Fitz made a mistake that the majority of people in this country have made at least once in their life, he just got caught. Some people need to stop being so judgemental, acting as if they have lived perfect pristine lives without ever screwing up.
heartbreakM
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:14 p.m.
The majority of people? I would love to see the stats on that one. Regardless, it is against the law, potentially deadly, and this is one of those "mistakes" which to me warrants a close look. I certainly have not led a "pristine" life but I have also not driven under the influence or broken community standards while putting all involved at risk. The question I have: so, you are willing to excuse this DUI that is 150% of the limit. What about the next time it occurs? Can you be certain that he won't think he can get away with it again, and I would venture to say that when drunk, your decision making is not great so getting behind the wheel is not a stretch? What about the next player who says, well nothing significant happened to Fitz, so why should I care? Maybe I'm being too hard on him, but playing football on full-ride is not a right, but rather subject to conforming to community and team standards. Keeping the scholarship is the right thing to do--you are not taking away his right to learn and be part of UM, but take away the thing he loves most and he will most certainly think twice about this in the future, as will his teammates.
Ron Granger
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:48 p.m.
Those kids have not been found guilty of anything. So many comments suggest they have. Maybe some haven't bothered to read the article. They get their day in court, like anyone else. More facts can then be revealed and Hoke can make an informed decision. If these accusations were of a more heinous nature - violent crime, etc - then Hoke would surely be inclined to take further immediate steps. But they aren't.
Scott
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 5:28 a.m.
Two more guys that may go the way of Stonum. We'll see, but it seems like when players get suspended they just keep on getting in trouble. We'll see. I think it is bad Kharma if they play. Remember MSU letting the CB (Ringer?)go from the jail cell right onto the playing field. MSU got killed. At the very least i hope they start recruiting guys with better character than a half dozen on this team.
SEC Fan
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:33 a.m.
oooh...some "heavy price" ....couldn't practice for 4 whole days.... now we really know what it means to be a "michigan man". Ya'll let anyone play no matter the circumstances. here's a prediction for ya...in 4-5 years...NCAA investigates um and starts handing out sanctions. you can't let this much go on and not expect a lot more down the line. so much for the michigan "integrity"...ooohhh wait...too many syllables?
Tag
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:02 a.m.
Dear Brady Hoke, Be careful! The ice is getting thin and you're a big guy. I understand how important, the team, the team, the team is, but integrity is more important. Allow the legal process to play out and then make the right decision. Fritz, might be not even be allowed to travel out of the state if he's on probation. The players have ONLY be cleared to practice. They've got a road to travel still, but eventually they need to be football ready which requires practice.
Wally the Wolverine
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 1:24 a.m.
Cleared to practice but indefinitely suspended? This can only mean one thing...they both will be on the field for the Bama game.
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:44 a.m.
Guess you just started watching Wolverine football this off-season... http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/hearing-for-u-m-safety-marvin-robinson-delayed/#.UCh3F6PFBlQ He's been practicing with the team and dressing for games. Has not played since. This is what Hoke's indefinite suspensions look like.
BamaJoe
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:51 a.m.
I don't think anyone in Alabama was surprised by Hoke the Joke's decision to allow suspended players to practice. Either sh-t or get off the pot. Say it's no big deal to steal or drink and drive, so no suspension, or man up and say this isn't acceptable and treat them like suspended players....not criminals, but suspended players. Suspended players, mean suspended from the team...that would include practice. For Hoke to allow suspended to practice places football above everything else. I assure you that Alabama would prefer to play your best. For those saying, what if they are not guilty, and might sue! Give me a break! For those saying, well he drove after drinking, but he didn't kill anyone. Is that what it takes, they have to kill someone???? Roll tide, we will play, and beat, whoever you suit up. Suspended or otherwise.
heartbreakM
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 1:38 a.m.
Bama: I appreciate your comments and agree with you (across "enemy lines"). I am stunned at the excuse making here and am even more astonished at the attitude, well just let him do his job, he didn't hurt anyone. Nobody here is saying that the university should kick these student-athletes out and pull their scholarship (though Clark is a much different case than Touissant), but I mean, really!! What you said.
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:34 a.m.
Honey Badger transferring to Michigan?
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:32 a.m.
Dion Sims steals a laptop computer and is condemned by Michigan fans. Misses an entire season. Clark steals a laptop and he misses one week of practice! HYSTERICAL! So much for the so-called integrity of the program! 3 weeks from today you'll all be licking your wounds after being THRASHED by Bama. ROLL TIDE!
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:02 p.m.
Simms? Phil and his kids weren't MSU Spartans! Dion pleaded guilty and missed a season. He didn't practice with the team while these charges were pending. Looks to me like Jabba the Hoke is an ENABLER! DETROIT -- A Michigan State football player has pleaded guilty to receiving and concealing stolen property in the theft of laptop computers from several Detroit Public Schools. The Wayne County prosecutor's office said Dion Sims entered his plea Thursday in circuit court. He was allowed to remain free on bond and is scheduled to be sentenced Dec. 6. Sims could qualify for a break for first-time offenders that would clear his record, according to The Detroit News. The deal calls for Sims to cooperate with investigators and give "truthful testimony" against others charged in the scheme. Sims is one of 10 men charged following an investigation into the theft of 104 laptops valued at $158,000. Authorities say the computers were sold online and to acquaintances. "He did not buy the computers or sell them," said Sims' lawyer, Steve Fishman, according to The Detroit News. "He pled guilty to being the middleman." "This isn't because he's an athlete," Fishman said of the plea deal, according to the report. "Anybody in his situation, with his age, his clean record and the cooperation he has already given the prosecution is entitled to get this break." The 19-year-old sophomore from Detroit has been suspended indefinitely from team-related activities. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:51 a.m.
Additionally here is a quote from MSU's AD regarding Sims, "We will allow the legal process to play out before we make any final decision regarding his future status with the team." That sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it?
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:49 a.m.
Dion Sims participated in a laptop theft ring responsible for over 100 thefts and they fleeced them on the internet. Apples to oranges comes to mind. Not to mention the fact that Frank Clark is not cleared to play and currently has a clean criminal record.
umgoblue47
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:16 a.m.
in your world you are guility untill proven innocent. . . thank god the rest of us are judged by the way the law is written and we are innocent untill proven guility. clark may be guility of stealing a laptop and if he is he is gone, but i will let the court's decide that!! dion simms (you spelled his name wrong) was part of a burgalry ring that stole $160,000.OO worth of laptop's, not one laptop. . . i guess you forgot to mention that (badjocks.com). what about convicted criminal glenn winston being allowed back on the football team after getting right out of jail! (the victoryformation.com) i guess you also forgot that sparty lives in a pretty big GLASS HOUSE and you might want to THINK before you slam MICHIGAN'S integrity!! you sir are a hypocrite!! ROLL BOISE STATE ALL OVER LITTLE BRO!! GO BLUE!!!
Mike D
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:51 p.m.
Everyone criticizing Hoke should take a deep breath. Hoke did not make the mistakes, Clark amd Toussaint did. He is not required to tell anyone if these two guys will play against Alabama at this time. In fact, it could be a great strategy, making it that much harder for Alabama to prepare for Michigan. I'm pretty sure in the end, based on Hoke's past behavior both players probably will not start or play against Alabama and probably for at least 2-3 more games.
SEC Fan
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:36 a.m.
uh...as head coach, he most certainly is! take the blinders off and quit sipping the kool-aid. and quit making excuses. no michigan integrity...which is why this school is home to the largest financial scandal in the history of NCAA sports and why the big 10 is home to the biggest scandal period in all of NCAA sports.
Robert Granville
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 9:23 p.m.
You guys realize practice is not fun and games right? Without the possibility of suiting up on Saturday, practice can feel like torture.
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:38 p.m.
Hmmm dont remember saying anything like that. It's really easy to argue when you generate both sides.
SEC Fan
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 1:28 p.m.
you see, that's the thing. ya'll ummy fans sit around saying how "criminal" everyone else is. Yet, in 7 months, you have 7 scholarship players arrested. And there are absolutely no repercussions for these actions. By your own statement, missing practice is missing "torture"... and let's not forget, um is the home of THE largest financial scandal in all NCAA history. Big 10 is home of THE biggest scandal in all of NCAA history. Big 10 has 3 teams currently under sanctions/probation, including um. and ya'll still sit around saying how "everyone else" are the criminals...
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:53 a.m.
They are innocent men alleged to have committed crimes right now. Hoke has issued no decision on their futures with the program. He has stated on several occasions that they are indefinitely suspended pending the outcomes of their respective court cases. You're an SEC fan though... so why are you even bothering with that line of questioning?
SEC Fan
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 2:38 a.m.
so you support the argument they received absolutely no penalty? I mean, they sat out a week of practice so they didn't have to endure the "torture" you describe. interesting.
MRunner73
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 9:16 p.m.
I am with Brady Hoke on this. Let it play out through the legal system. More to come.
GettingBluer
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 8:16 p.m.
Still better than this: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1182371-arizona-football-return-of-fabbians-ebbele-and-jourdon-grandon-key-for-rich-rod
Old Salt
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 8:04 p.m.
Oh what a surprise..They should still be suspended but then we must win the game..Right Coach ?
Macabre Sunset
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:57 p.m.
I understand the desire to suspend players for this type of crime. In order to represent Michigan, you have a responsibility. Let's say, for example, you've been linked to neo-Nazi activity through social media and a boyfriend or girlfriend (this happened with a German athlete who was kicked off her national team last week). Well, that represents something you don't want associated with your team. Or, another example, you're arrested and plead guilty to domestic violence. Plenty of precedent for removing players from teams. The question is where do you draw the line? I think the thought that these are mistakes that young people make is largely irrelevant. That's why we have the courts. They provide that balance. We don't remove people from their jobs when they have a DUI. Citizens Bank (which apparently thinks Cottage Inn is a hotel on Mackinac Island) isn't going to fire someone for a DUI unless that means missing a lot of work time. It's whether representing Michigan on the football field is harmful to Michigan if the player has had a DUI. I don't know the answer. I don't like that Fitz Toussaint apparently drove drunk. But he was caught before he injured anyone and he will have to pay the same price anyone else who was caught will pay. I would have other questions, too. Should someone who scored a 600 on the SAT represent Michigan on the football field? What message does that send about Michigan? We seem to have a high tolerance for the hypocrisy of the recruitment of athletes in the revenue-generating sports who cannot possibly succeed in an elite college environment. In a long, meandering manner, I'm saying I'm OK with Toussaint returning for the Alabama game. With Clark, it depends on the actions of the court, since he is accused of doing intentional harm to someone. But that's my personal sentiment about representation. I wouldn't expect it to apply to everyone. By now, I kind-of trust Hoke to do the right thing. So his decision is good with me.
heartbreakM
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:07 p.m.
@Trine: Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Yes, I meant 0.12 and not .012. (Darn typos) I do not hold people to perfect behavior--none of us have it, and it is too much to ask. But to me, playing a sport at a big time university (or even small time) on a full-scholarship is a privilege and not a requirement. Certain behaviors to me override the "right" to participate in said team sport. I think a DUI that is 150% of the legal limit, with the full knowledge of how deadly it potentially is. warrants a punishment. Not being kicked out of school, but losing the right to play for a year. It would set a pattern going into the future, and may make all future athletes think before stepping behind the wheel. thankfully, we are talking about being stopped by an officer rather than being transported to the ER injured or being taken to court for manslaughter. But the fact is, he put himself and more importantly, others in harms way by his thoughtless action, and yes, I think actions such as this deserve consequences. At your age, I probably thought differently, but in my life experience and seeing people I know lose loved ones to drivers who were impaired has hardened my attitude. I think the running, the community service, the alcohol awareness is all good, but you can't tell me that Fitz never had alcohol awareness in high school, at football camp, or at the university. I know that there is alcohol awareness publicity all over campus. And if Stonum's punishment didn't teach him, then I don't know what will. And it's not as if Fitz was the first on the team with this--I think a stiff penalty for this action is warranted. And thankfully nobody was hurt.
TrineDH29
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 9:58 a.m.
And I think all your posts about MADD and SADD is ridicolous. Yes people get behind the wheel of a car and drive drunk. Yes they kill people. That doesn't make them bad people. Sometimes people make mistakes and some mistakes are bigger than others. But punishing these kids for what could have been is CRAZY!! The point of the legal system when it comes to punishing people for crimes is two things...1.) Gather money for any suffering or damage that comes because of the crime. 2.) To punish the wrong doer and encourage them to not commit the crime again. You may get one judge on a given day who will sentence someone for said crime for 7 years...on another day he may have sentenced them for 3 years. There is a reason why there are limits to punishments. To say that every one who commits a crime deserves 10 years in prison is crazy. It also depends on the situation and the person. Someone who is actually truly sorry for the crime they committed doesn't need to be in jail for as long as someone who is a long time offender or shows no remorse. Sure there remorse could be fake but that is for the judge and Coach Hoke to decide. NOT YOU!!!!! I repeat NOT YOU!!!!! And btw you act like .12 is WAYYYYYY over the legal limit when its actually only .03 over the legal limit. I've given field sobriety tests to people who could drive better and walk better than you could sober. It all depends on the person. Just like punishment. Not to mention all things considered that is maybe a beer or two or a shot or two more than a .08. So I don't think you should really get to heavy on what people "blow". Highest I've seen someone blow was .48 and they were walking and talking and carrying on just like you and I. Hoke will do what is right and will punish these guys to the extent that he feels appropriate.
TrineDH29
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 9:49 a.m.
Macbre I agree with you to an extent and would even go further in saying that if they received no punishment from Coach Hoke besides sitting out of practice a week I would be fine. I know people will want to lynch me. I am 23 years old and I played Baseball in College. I personally never got in trouble to this extent, but people on my team did. There was a kid who got a DUI and at the point in the year when he got the DUI we still had 5 weeks until the start of the season. Every single day after practice that kid ran 5 miles. That was on top of whatever conditioning we did in practice. He was not suspended for any games, but honestly for him it hit home more than I think suspending him for a couple games would've. The University made him take an alcohol awareness class and do 150 hours of community service. Not to mention he paid thousands of dollars for his court fees and fines and had to complete community service and not to mention spend a night in jail. I know to Heartbreak we should condemn this kids and suspend them for a whole year. And I get that mentallity but at the same time I feel like just because a kid is in the spot light we go above and beyond to punish them. I tell you what that kid said he would never drink and drive again. Whether he will or not though isn't dependent on him missing a game or practice. It has to hit home. Who knows these guys may have to set up the whole practice field every single day, run 5 miles and do bleachers...not to mention they still have to deal with the law. In the "Old" days when Bo was coach that was how they dealt with punishments. Make them run and they'll never forget it. I understand that what they did was wrong and that doesn't change anything. But over punishing them doesn't serve any good in my opinion either. I am also a cop and I think Heatbreak you meant to say he blew a .12 not a .012 which is actually below the legal limit.
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 8:43 p.m.
Macabre: I really appreciate your sentiment here. I agree with a lot of what you said, but these students are not being removed from UM altogether or losing their scholarship. I think that having a full-ride scholarship and playing football (or any sport) for UM is a PRIVILEGE that is subject to suspension based on certain behaviors. Michigan would be wrong, IMO, to kick them out of school based on allegations. But they have a moral obligation, again in my strongly stated opinion, to discipline until the justice system plays itself out. These are not small accusations being made, from a petty old girlfriend or something. There is a major responsibility in citizenship that goes along with getting a scholarship, and DUI particularly for a college student or breaking/entering/theft of a high priced machine breaks that citizenship code. Of course, I"m just an anonymous fan like you, and not the coach, but the older I get, the more I understand the need to do these types of things in response to various transgressions. It's one thing to be late for practice, or miss a class--those go against the team in different ways, but when it comes to DUI (and .012 is well above that) and major theft--I have little to no tolerance. Even if it costs our team a loss.
golfer
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:07 p.m.
i hope they both do not play in the first game. practice is ok. but first game NO!. send out the message.
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:49 a.m.
When MSU DB Chris L Rucker was arrested for DUI in a 7-11 parking lot a few years ago Michigan fans called for his scalp. Unbeaten MSU did not wait to suspend him for the Iowa game until he had his day in court. Gimme a break! I want Fitz on the field on October 20th so that the MSU defense can beat the hell out of him...just like VaTech did in the Splenda Bowl. Clark? He should be suspended for the season ala Dion Sims. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y!
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:02 p.m.
Tim...Beautifully said. Why the rush to judgment and the rush to punishment? Let's do this right. And I think Brady Hoke will do just that.
Tim
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:29 p.m.
Here's something to think about with the hype of the Alabama game set aside. Let's say hypothetically that they are not allowed to play in the first game, and then later have their court hearing and are found innocent. Then what happens? A player would have been suspended for ... running a red light?? How would that be the right thing to do in any way? In our justice system people are innocent until proven guilty. Being arrested is not proof of guilt. It amounts to an accusation. Failure of a field sobriety test is evidence collection, not proof of guilt. That is for a judge to determine. Police are not infallible and neither are sobriety tests. That is why we go to court for an unbiased judge to assess the evidence and statements and then make an informed decision. Like I said before, punishment based on an accusation would not be appropriate. A conviction from a judge in court should come before any further action is taken by the team. If that court date happens to occur after the Alabama game, then so be it. That is not within the University's control. He should not be punished preemptively.
edjasbord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 6:28 p.m.
The self-righteousness is so deep here that you need waders to get through it and a good degreaser to wash its foul stench off you.
Tom
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:46 a.m.
You got that right! The hypocrisy here is appalling!!!
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:45 p.m.
I am with you!
Tim
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 6:21 p.m.
Before getting all worked up, keep in mind that they have not been convicted of any crime yet. They have been accused. There is a huge difference. While they may very well be guilty of their crimes and deserving of punishment, both criminally and from the team, any punishment prior to actual conviction in court would be premature. Once they have their court date and there is a ruling, I will be more judgmental about the team's response. Prior to conviction, however, regardless of where all the indicators point, our justice system finds them innocent until proven guilty.
A2comments
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 10:39 a.m.
The DUI involved driving under the influence proven by a test. Facts, regardless of plea agreements.
GoBigBlue
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:50 p.m.
This whole situation sucks. Damn 18-22 yr olds and your poor decision making. I'm proud to say I was perfect at that age. Or was it that I was lucky enough not to have been caught when I made stupid decisions?? My guess is that these guys will miss at least half of the opener. I'm sure Hoke does not want to make any announcements for a multitude of reasons. We may not know until kickoff.
GoBigBlue
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 5:03 a.m.
coach*
GoBigBlue
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 5:01 a.m.
Hey Compound, no I did not have a free scholly to MI when I was that age. However, I had plenty to lose by making idiotic decisions at that age. Did that stop me? No, not every time. My point is that it is inevitable that some of these KIDS are going to make bad choices and get caught in the act of doing something stupid and wrong. There's a lot of hypocrasy thrown around on these boards and I'm not comfortable being one of the group to yell for these kids to be strung up. I'm comfortable letting the cpatch decide. That's his job. Heartbreak, your position is clear and I do not completely disagree with you. I am not condoning what these kids have done. My statement was that this whole situation sucks. Sucks for the coaches, teammates, the 2 bad decision makers, and the fans. But at the end of the day, only the coaches and the team are in the know on what punishment is being dished out.
heartbreakM
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:26 a.m.
The thing that sucks about this situation is that these men made mistakes that violate the public law. They violated the trust that their coaches and teammates put on them. And they are now having football (but not their scholarships nor the right to attend University of Michigan) taken away from them temporarily. You are right. It sucks. Sucks that they didn't think before allegedly breaking the law. If the charges get thrown out, then good for them, but for now, their actions sucked and now they put the coaches and their team in a situation.
thecompound
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:10 a.m.
So you had a free scholarship to UM when you were 18-22 years old?
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:25 p.m.
Then we will miss the game due to griping here about whatever decision is made. Nutz.
happyguy1
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:28 p.m.
From my reading of the article, Toussaint and Clark are cleared to practice. The article does not indicate that they will play in the Alabama game. Regardless, none of us armchair coaches knows what team punishments the two are currently undergoing. I'll leave it up to Hoke to decide given that he knows these two the best. Also, just remember this--a person is innocent until proven guilty. Neither of the two players has been convicted of a crime. What if it turned out that one or both are innocent and Hoke treated them as if they were guilty? Imagine the effect it would have on the team and the team's trust in their head coach. If Hoke decides to hold Toussaint out for one or more games, so be it. I can live with that. But if he decides to let him play, I can live with that as well. I trust Hoke knows what's best for the team and the players.
Robert Granville
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 3:36 a.m.
There wouldn't be a lawsuit. Players are not entitled to play.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:23 p.m.
HappyGuy...and if they were not guilty, imagine the lawsuit if they were denied play. Yikes.
Kyle Meinke
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:46 p.m.
happyguy, you are exactly right that a return to practice does not necessarily mean a return to eligibility. In fact, Hoke was firm on that exact fact -- that no decisions have been made regarding Toussaint and Clark for the Alabama game. And while you are right that someone is innocent until proven guilty, one thing to keep in mind is Toussaint did already blow a .12. Regardless of how his case shakes out, he was drunk driving, per Michigan law.
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:15 p.m.
For those who claim that Fitz's transgression was no big deal, I am providing stats from the CDC: Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 48 minutes. The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $51 billion. source: http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html This is no joke. Where is Jalen Rose on this? He was so loud about the Fab Five banners--he should be loudly calling for Fitz to sit, just as he had to.
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:43 p.m.
If it is so bad, and everyone cares...why can you buy beer in a gas station in the middle of nowhere?
Robert Granville
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 9:54 p.m.
Thing is... there are NO true implications of what he did. Your attempt to emotionally tie his crime to victims of alcohol-related traffic accidents is more than a bit disingenuous. Fitz didn't crash and he didn't hurt anyone. There is a reason that even the criminal justice system is not capable of punishing criminals for potential crime. This isn't Minority Report. If the criminal justice system won't punish Fitz for the crimes of others, why should the football program. The duration of Fitz's suspension will be based on what happens in the courtroom as Hoke has stated. That's the way it should be.
Macabre Sunset
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 6:04 p.m.
It is a big deal and the courts should deal with it.
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:16 p.m.
Just to give a bit more support for my position, Fitz is 22 years old. This is from the CDC too. He should sit for the full year to understand the true implications of his DUI, and its impact on his life, short of killing somebody. "Among drivers with BAC levels of 0.08 % or higher involved in fatal crashes in 2009, more than one out of every 3 were between 21 and 24 years of age (35%). "
ted
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 4:45 p.m.
Toussaint's crime was without malice. Driving drunk is a bad decision made by many good people. However, I fully expect Frank not to play and finally kicked off the team after the court case.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:21 p.m.
Break...read it again. Punishment is not over.
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:10 p.m.
Toussaint's crime is indeed without malice. Until somebody gets injured and killed. Just ask the tens of thousands who have lost a loved one to a drunk driver. Thank goodness the cops were there to take him out of that situation. He should sit for a year. There are actions and there are consequences for said actions. I am actually appalled at Hoke for taking it easy on these guys. One week of practice? That's not a punishment at all!
2charles
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 4:05 p.m.
I can't believe that no one here has done anything stupid in their life! These kids r young and made some bad decisions. Its not like they were out beating up their girlfriends or doing drugs repeatedly like some of the other stories we've heard about this off-season. These are good kids who just made some bad decisions. The discipline is there and he never said they were going to play.
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:42 p.m.
I have done something stupid. And I learned from it. And no one said I couldn't do my job or contribute in the way I was contributing to society literally 4 hours before... You learn from it, don't EVER let it happen again...and life goes on.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:19 p.m.
I thought that the room the one kid allegedly entered was unlocked, and he walked in and walked off with the computer? There was breaking? Still, dumb and uncaring, but not exactly carjacking at gunpoint.
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:08 p.m.
There is stupid and there is drinking and driving, limit well above the limit where people can get injured and killed. If you don't believe me, look up the stats on MADD or SADD websites. Stealing (or being accused of stealing) of a classmate is also appalling, not to mention breaking and entering. These people based on the facts being reported did not do "stupid" things, but damaged the reputation of their school, hurt their team by their actions, and should be heavily disciplined to send a message. How do you know they are "good kids"? Their actions speak loudly.
rnich231
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 4:01 p.m.
Limited disciplinary action would suggest that the game/program is bigger than what's right for the identity of the University or it's players. Does this sound familiar to any of you??
Bly615
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.
I hope your not trying to campare a DUI to what happened in PSU...
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:41 p.m.
Also, if this happened to any other kid in the university, probably none of their teachers would even find out.
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:40 p.m.
No one knows that the disciplinary action is. If you found out Toussaint was spending 10 hours a week in a big-brother program helping out kids with abusive parents or something, and he was truly making a difference...would that make a difference for you? Why the heck can't he carry a football in a game. It is pretty lame to think the ONLY penalty, in the world of possibilities that are INFINITE, is that he should not play in a football game. It's one mistake the poor kid made. If it happened to any one of us, it would not affect our daily lives. You go to court, pay your fine, do a program, and the world moves on. It doesn't create a chain reaction of mental anguish that will continue if you were not able to move forward with your regular life.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:17 p.m.
I'm confused. They guy says "I haven't made a final decision about Alabame yet." Is the decision to wait the decision you hate? Because I don't see where he said they would play. And what do you want? Unlimited disciplinary action? They should be shot and buried at the fifty yard line or what??
heartbreakM
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 5:12 p.m.
I agree with you. First decision that Hoke has made in nearly 2 years that I wholeheartedly disagree with.
Matt Patercsak
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 4:06 p.m.
oh stop it. They wont play against Bama.
Michael
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 3:54 p.m.
Well, as a Michigan alumni AND a parent of a Michigan student, and a fan of course, I am disappionted in the message this apparent lack of diciplinary action sends. Im sure they have "internals", however, perception is 9/10ths of reality. The perception here is that winning is the most important thing here. The argument that Michigan holds itself to a higher standard just went out the window in my opinion. Michigan is deep in talent, and should be able to overcome these setbacks without compromising its integrity. Disappointing!!!
The1Cool
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:57 a.m.
I agree with garrisondyer. Perception is not 9/10ths of reality it is 9/10ths of assumption. Too many people assume to know what these players are going through and quite frankly it is none of your business. People demand punishment as some kind of penance to their own egos when you aren't even a member of the UM football team. Coach Hoke has earned the benefit of the doubt and it is his responsibility to do what is best to help these young men become men. And the best thing is not to always to bring down the hammer in punishing bad decisions. The details are hardly clear on either of their transgressions.
garrisondyer
Mon, Aug 13, 2012 : 12:38 a.m.
I take exception to the whole "perception is 9/10ths of reality" thing you said, Michael. I think that many, many folks ascribe to this idea, but I find it a downfall of our voyeuristic and nosy society. Everybody wants to know every single detail, say their piece about it, and have it heard. The true reality is that the Michigan football team is dealing with these discipline issues the way that they are, and none of us knows any of the details. Hoke has earned the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion, by the way he leads his team. So I trust that he and the rest of the coaching staff are handling these situations appropriately.
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:37 p.m.
During Bo's day there wouldn't be DUI police on every corner pulling over people that didn't put on a turn signal...or something like that.
Bly615
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 11:26 p.m.
I think Kyle is right on the money on this one. There has yet to be a decision made on punishment. Simply letting them practice isnt a sign that they are gonna get away scott free.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 10:14 p.m.
Hailmary...Uh, well, then there is US! We lay it on these guys pretty thick(ly), and rightly so. They made stupid choices and are paying for it on many levels we don't even know. For me at that age, it would have been a huge punishment just to know that I had let my folks down. Hope they get (have gotten) their heads screwed on straight. Time to be the men the can be.
Hailmary
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 8:31 p.m.
These kids are suffering Michael. They made game (life) changes that could very well affect their lives. A little compassion goes well with integrity. Also Michael, that dicipline your referring to, let me guess how many ways they are catching hell over these episodes, the court, the actual arrest and booking, the humiliation from their teammates and family and friend, they've had their pictures and names splashed on the local news and radio and, Coach Hoke has not stated that he is finished doling out punishment to either kid. Come on Michael, where's the compassion ?
Kyle Meinke
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:43 p.m.
Michael, letting them practice doesn't not mean they'll be allowed to play vs Alabama. Remember, S Marvin Robinson practiced all last year but was held out while he was facing a home invasion charge. As I said in another thread, I'm OK with letting them practice, since it helps them prevent injuries down the road etc. And they could still miss the Alabama game -- which, in my opinion, they do.
amzack
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 4:55 p.m.
I agree with you Michael. Bo would have made a decision on Fitz right away and send a message. If Fitz does not play, many will think Brady made that decision only after he knew he had a solid replacement RB. Regarding Frank Clark, it may be best to wait until after he is found innocent or guilty before determining his punishment--don't want another Duke lacrosse situation.
rnich231
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 3:36 p.m.
The fact that Hoke is considering letting these two players play in the opener tells you a lot about UM integrity or lack there of..
Kyle Meinke
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 7:41 p.m.
rnich, Hoke never said, nor implied, he is considering letting them play against Alabama. Just said they'll return to practice -- which, in my opinion, is the right call. Remember, the more camp they miss, the more likely they will be to injury etc., which isn't fair to either even if they did miss up. I'm of the opinion neither plays against Alabama, but we'll see. As for now, being able to practice seems like the right call to me.
edjasbord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 3:46 p.m.
Hey Rich - Dont you have your own coaching duties to tend to down there in AZ? Regardless of what you claim, these are Hoke's players, and he will deal with them how he sees best. And he's in the best position to see what is best.
JustfortheRecord
Sun, Aug 12, 2012 : 3:44 p.m.
There are a billion ways for these kids to make their penance without affecting the entire team and the potential for a great season for us all. Think outside of the box!