Brady Hoke: No decision made on eligibility of Fitz Toussaint, Frank Clark for Alabama game
This story was updated at 2:55 p.m. to include quotes from Brady Hoke and Denard Robinson.
CHICAGO -- Michigan football coach Brady Hoke says no decision has been made whether suspended players Fitz Toussiant and Frank Clark will play in the season opener against Alabama.
Toussaint, the Wolverines' projected starting tailback, was arrested last weekend and charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated.
Clark, a starting candidate at defensive end, was arrested in June and charged with second-degree home invasion. He's accused of stealing a laptop from a campus dorm.
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"Right now, they're indefinitely suspended," Hoke said. "They will pay the price for poor judgments, which a lot of 18- to 23-year-old kids make, and then we'll make a decision down the road."
Hoke said he has not yet decided whether either player will practice. Camp is set to open Aug. 6.
Michigan would miss either player if he can't play in the opener Sept. 1 against Alabama. The Crimson Tide are the reigning national champion.
They also fielded the nation's No. 1 defense last year, and were No. 1 against the run, so the loss of Toussaint -- who was a 1,000-yard rusher in his first year as the starter last season -- would be particularly poignant.
What will go into the decision to allow Toussaint and Clark to practice?
"Them meeting the standards we want (from) a Michigan football player," Hoke said. "There are consequences they will be working through right now.
"It's an educational process guys go through. They're paying a price for it, because there's consequences."
Michigan quarterback Denard Robinson, the other leg of the Wolverines' two-headed rushing duo, said he fully supports Toussaint and Clark.
"They're my brothers," he said. “I’m going to be there through thick and thin. Whatever they need, I’ll be there for them.”
“They’ve got to know that we’re a family, we’re not going to let them down, we’re never going to let them go. Those will be my brothers forever.”
Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at kylemeinke@annarbor.com and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.
Comments
Proche79
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 3:32 a.m.
All these kids have cellphones. Pull them out of your pocket and call for a ride if your drunk. As far as the stealing goes. That's a character issue. My philosophy is if it isn't yours don't touch it. Simple. Common sense will keep you out of trouble.
Hailmary
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 5:02 p.m.
Yes Proche79, that's supposed to be how it's supposed to work.
Dave Kirkpatrick
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:17 p.m.
These are the sixth and seventh Michigan Wolverine scholarship football players to be arrested and charged with serious offenses since January 2012. All are in separate offenses - this is not one big bar fight or something similar. That is over 8% of the team. That is a huge problem, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Darryl Stonum Josh Furman Marvin Robinson Will Campbell Jerald Robinson Fitz Touissant Frank Clark Not exactly what the fans are calling "Leaders and Best", unless you are referring to crimes. I am sure Coach Hoke will deal aggressively with this, but if not now --- when?
SEC Fan
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 8 p.m.
depends on what category they're "leading" and "best" at :-)
Hailmary
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:27 p.m.
There comes a point where Brady has to, "lower the hammer".
15crown00
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:31 p.m.
If right was right they would be gone. Brady it's your call.
azwolverine
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 3:55 p.m.
And you're perfect.
KeepingItReal
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:29 p.m.
Denard reminds me of the "Fab Five." I hope that he maintains that sentiment because these guys need each other. No matter how much they contribute to UM, if they even seem to become a liability, the fans, UM and the media will drop them like a hot potato. I say to Denard. You have earned my respect even more so than before.
edjasbord
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:57 a.m.
You all have to remember that Hoke was a criminal justice guy - I believe he worked in the prison system before becoming a coach. Also, I believe he wanted to be a secret service agent. He believes in letting our criminal justice system do its thing - which includes due process and ensuing penalties (if found guilty through that process). If someone pays the price for their crime through that system, why should they suffer a second round of penalties, especially when it could put their whole careers in jeopardy?
SEC Fan
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:59 p.m.
I didn't know he worked in the prison system. That explains the rash of arrests...and his source of recruits.
Hailmary
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:29 p.m.
The problem is that this is getting out of control and will eventually get the attention of the NCAA.
ted
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:01 a.m.
I'm getting tired of hearing how someone gets arrested for Drinking and Driving. Who doesn't drink ? You know people need to drive home after they do. Everyone does it. The logical question is ... why isn't drinking and driving should legal ? There needs to be a national day of protest in the form of everyone drinking and then getting in their car and driving around town.
saveferris
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 2:32 p.m.
You funny.
Gabrial Mielke
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:59 a.m.
I believe in the tough love (Kick them off the team) approach as much as the next guy, But I also believe that some people, and I stress "Some", deserve a second chance. I have been in the Army for 17 years and have had the distinct honor of leading some of Americas finest men and women in combat zones. I have also had to process the paperwork to kick some soldiers out of the Army due to discipline problems. But one thing is for sure, some of the finest soldiers I have ever worked with and led have made mistakes. Some have DUI's, and some have stolen property, but have been given a second chance. They have learned from their mistakes, and turned around and are now fine examples of soldiers, leaders and productive members of society. Trust me, not everybody learns from their mistakes. It takes a great leader to evaluate the individual and determine if they are truly remorseful and if they are capable and willing to learn from this and turn things around. Also they individual that made their mistakes has to show that they are willing to learn, work hard and humbly accept any punishments. trust me when I say this, It's a very deliberate process, but they deserve an evaluation, punishment, and if the situation permits, a second chance. Lets let coach Hoke, Dave Brandon and the compliance Dept do their job before we lay down rash judgment about the Michigan staff or the players concerned.
BillMK
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 3:57 a.m.
A thoughtful post, GM. Thee following is hearsay from an acquaintance with social connections to both of these guys: Toussaint - stupidly drove home after a party, thinking he was OK. Most DUIs say this, and most DUIs have driven under the influence many times before being caught. But Toussaint is regarded as a straight shooter... Clark - character problems.... The previous was hearsay from an acquaintance with social connections to both of these guys. IF it is accurate, IF, then, IMHO, both need to be suspended. Toussaint would need an assessment and probably treatment. Clark, bye-bye. An opinion based on hearsay. And as informed as anything else as of this date!
Hookemhorn
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 2:23 a.m.
I'm quite certain most of the "throw them off the team" people are fans of rival teams, looking for an edge on Michigan!! The players are suspended indefinitely, let the process play out!!
NoSUVforMe
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:20 a.m.
I'm quite certain that many of the "throw them out" posters have commited similar offenses - some caught and some not. If the church allows repetance, why don't the "good Christians" on this board show some willingness to forgive? Does hypocrite ring a bell?
azwolverine
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:32 a.m.
I'm sorry...I disagree with all of the "Throw 'em out!" talk that I'm seeing. These young guys made mistakes. Big Mistakes! On the surface, Clark's appears a more premeditated crime and, as a felony, a worse offense. Don't get me wrong, in either case, someone could have been hurt or killed...thank God no one was. That said, so many of us act like we've never made mistakes in our lives. "Well, I've never done what these two thugs did. Hmph!!!" Maybe not, but we've all made mistakes in our lives that, hopefully, we learned from, recovered from, and were able to do the right thing moving forward. School/college isn't just about academics...it's about learning about life. "Well, throw 'em off! That'll teach 'em!!! Hmph!" Yes...but that's a good way to undermine the structure that they have currently and, rather than scaring them straight, could make them bitter, aimless, and angry...with no support system to steer them. This is the first offense for both of them. Suspend them (as has been done), sit them for some games or a season...and have them live up to a certain standard during that time. If they can, welcome them back. They will have proven that they learned (at COLLEGE - a learning institution, last I knew), an important lesson. These types of situations can become among the most important learning situations in a young person's life. Then, if they mess up again...bye bye. In the meantime, they have been knocked down (by their own actions)...let's see if they can get back up.
dom
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.
kmgeb... so everyone who blows above the legal limit should loose their job or scholarship if they are a student?? is this is how the world should work? Alright good job being a hard arse. tough guy. stickler. its people like u with your extremism that are making the world such a horrible place. anyone who has ever broken a law should suffer eternal damnation!!.. right.. no. Fitz should be given another chance for sure(if all goes well from now till then) and Clark i'm good with letting go. whats wrong with giving people a second chance. all these freaking politicians get second and third chances. why cant these "kids" have a second chance to make something of themselves. fitz has a chance to be a great running back! He could have a wonderful life, playing football. and if not then using his scholarship to get a great education from the UofM. why take that away? at least one more shot.. is that to much to ask? and have u seen the video of him running the red? probably not. so how do you know he didn't actually stop completely, and the police (in saline mind u) didn't just say that to pull the car over. Its happened to me on my way to work early in the morning through saline. He may have been driving perfectly good. although i'm not saying that was the actual case. dont jump to conclusions.
15crown00
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:35 p.m.
Ya AZ but you're a Wolva -Snob
kmgeb2000
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:55 a.m.
Second degree home invasion is not a mistake, that act has a premeditated component. 2+2=5 is a mistake. The running a red light while DUI, could have very likely ended in manslaughter. A mistake yes. But one with potentially an extremely high price that the other person pays with their life. I'll stick with the losing playing time doesn't cut it for either one
7718
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:43 a.m.
The problem I see is that Hoke will suspend them in July and a couple weeks in August, after that it will be business as usual and all will be forgotten...I can't see Hoke keeping Fitzgerald out for the Alabama game. Dave Brand will make sure the brand doesn't get embarrassed by Alabama.
Terry Star21
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:59 p.m.
I understand that some people are crying 'due-process' and 'court', but seriously. One was caught in the act of entering a home, which is a threatening situation to homeowners. The other blew a .08 breathalyzer on site, then a .12 at the police station, plus the red light. Try asking people who have had someone break into their house, or someone who has had a loved one injured or killed by a drunk driver how they feel. Fitz and Frank violated Michigan rules and regulations, serious enough to be 'zero-tolerance' policies. They should be cut from the team. MgoBlueForTiM.....Leaders and Best, and by example.
Hailmary
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 5:04 p.m.
Yes Terry, you are right on this one.
Hailmary
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:06 p.m.
Right on the money, Terry.
scmaize
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:45 p.m.
Maybe I am missing some facts, but I didn't hear that Clark was involved in breaking and entering. I heard he was in a dorm room, and may have stolen a laptop when he left. It was his birthday, and he was apparently partying. Someone else probably has more details.
edjasbord
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:51 a.m.
The laptop was tracked electronically to Clark - he was not caught entering a home. You are most likely thinking of Furman.
SEC Fan
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:23 a.m.
Terry. For once (ok, maybe twice) I agree with you on this one! fyi...I'd say the same thing for any SEC team...whether you believe it or not. Mr. Hoke shouldn't need to wait to make a decision on this one.
heartbreakM
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:06 a.m.
I agree with you, but i'd take it one step further. Pending that the charges are true (which they sure seem to be based on the police reports), they both have violated general "courtesy-human" rules, not just Michigan rules. Add to that the idea of what a scholarship means--and I think we all agree that people who are so brazen should not be rewarded for such acts. Of course, we have to let the legal system play out--but on the face of it, I'd be unhappy if either played this year. The breaking and entering is troubling for other reasons, though sometimes those things don't appear as seems.
JRW
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.
Criminals should not be playing MI football.
JRW
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:41 p.m.
Both should be kicked off the team. End of story. Set the example for the rest of the year and the rest of the team.
OldBittyBates
Mon, Jul 30, 2012 : 3:04 a.m.
How many bloggers responding to this thread can honestly say they have never gotten drunk? And those under the age of 30 are more likely to get plastered than any other group. Fitz was slightly over the limit in his drinking from what I understand. This is not the time to condemn him. Clark on the other hand did something that is hard to forgive. Someone who has no respect for other peoples property cannot be trusted. So how can we know what Frank will do in the future? These two offenses should not be treated in the same way.
unclefred
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 7:15 p.m.
@scmaize - Testing over the limit does not mean you were over the limit. Those results will get verified by a lab. Depending on the exact equipment used there is about a 5%-8% error rate assuming the administrator of the test correctly followed all procedures. This is one reason why waiting until the legal process has run its course is a good idea.
scmaize
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:42 p.m.
Let's say you are accused of something you didn't do. Should you be fired from your job and ostracized by the community without an investigation or trial? Maybe you have constitutional rights, but football players don't. Fitz did test over the legal limit, but we don't even know whether Clark stole a macbook or not.
garrisondyer
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
I don't agree. Let the facts come out first. Then maybe I'll be calling for both of them to be dismissed, but we'll just have to see what the facts are.
Terry Star21
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:50 p.m.
Agree.
Dave
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11 p.m.
If Fitz pleads no content or a guilty plea, he needs to be suspended for at least a few games. If Clark is the same, then he needs to be suspended for a full year or kicked off the team. I believe in giving kids a second chance, but the only real "consequences" for these crimes is missing playing time or losing the privilege to play for Michigan.
SEC Fan
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 10:26 p.m.
Bull! he's already made his decision; he just will wait another 30+ days to let the uproar die down. "they'll pay the price...they're indefinitely suspended" yeah...until the games start! ohhh...suspending them from???? practice? that hasn't started... Hoke and crew have no scruples. no more bashing the SEC guys...Hoke and ummmmm are no different.
Frustrated in A2
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 3:21 p.m.
Right or wrong that can sometimes be the case with big name players. I think we've all seen it happen at several programs across the country. I wouldn't not be shocked though to see Hoke wait until some more things play out in the court system before making a decision on their status. I would like to see him take the high road and wait.
azwolverine
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:47 a.m.
SEC...you are jumping to some serious conclusions. Hoke is someone who simply doesn't like to say any more than he has to at the time. Then, he doesn't get himself in a pickle like the SEC's Nick "I will never coach at Alabama" Saban. Hoke lets out information as he needs to. He doesn't care if he appeases the likes of you, me, or anyone else for that matter. He's being deliberate, considerate, and making a well thought out decision based on the facts before he just makes some knee jerk decision to appease the masses. He's better than that. I know being from SEC country, that's hard to understand.
SEC Fan
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:22 a.m.
well, I guess we'll no if I'm Nostradamus on Sep 1st...
garrisondyer
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:16 a.m.
Yeah, SEC Fan, why are you wasting everyone's time and space with this nonsense? All we know is that they're indefinitely suspended, and that other members of the team who have continually screwed up have already been booted off the team by Hoke, the very coach you accuse of having no scruples.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:31 p.m.
sec.guy....How do you know all of this. Are you Nostradamus or something?
JJ
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 10:06 p.m.
Give them 1 more chance coach. if the reading was that low... he's just 1 of the unfortunate ones that got pulled over... as most people who leave a party or a bar and drive.. certainly are in the same ballpark
rightmind250
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 9:21 p.m.
Hoke's just leaving the door open in case Rawls doesn't cut it in practise. If they were going to be suspended, then suspend them. This wishy washy crap coming out of Hoke is bs. It sends the wrong signal to the rest of the team. It's no coincidense that Michigan leads the B10 in arrests since Hoke took over.
Hailmary
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 5:06 p.m.
I couldn't have said it better rightmind 250.
Hookemhorn
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 2:26 a.m.
Oh yeah, go check out Meyer's players arrest record while he was coaching in Florida!
Hookemhorn
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 2:15 a.m.
Rightmind is just a sore Buckeye!! He's still hurting from the whooping last November!! Have fun watching your team sit out of the bowls this season!! What were you saying when your ineligible players played in the bowl a couple years ago?
garrisondyer
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 12:13 a.m.
Hello, rightmind? They are both currently suspended. You're saying things that make you sound out of touch. The reality is that none of us know what discussions have happened and partial decisions that have occurred within the team internally, so all of this negative bickering is just a waste of everybody's breath.
a2citizen
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 8:59 p.m.
Send the thief on his way. Give Toussiant only one more chance.
Hailmary
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 5:07 p.m.
Yes !
JustfortheRecord
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:54 p.m.
If there is any way in the world for them to have consequences that don't involve playing time, I have to say I'd be all for it. The problem is, the inside-the-box that has been created for this kind of thing says "playing time." However, I have no idea what in the world the consequence would be. But, there must be one, and I hope someone smarter than I am can think if it. I sure would like to have them lined up against Alabama fully stocked. And again, I am not saying there should not be SERIOUS consequences. I am just saying that perhaps there might be something that I don't know about that would be AS SERIOUS as playing time, would still teach the boys a lesson, and would let us all feel like we have a chance for a RB touchdown. ....selfish on my part, I know...
Billy Bob Schwartz
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:27 p.m.
Rightmind....Stonum didn't make the changes needed. That doesn't make him the example for all young men. For many (most?) bright young men, one idiotic move is enough. Not every one of them will do it again and again, and then drive on a suspended license to report to his probation officer. Let's be real here.
rightmind250
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 9:45 p.m.
yeah, kind of like the way it changed Stonum
JustfortheRecord
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:56 p.m.
I also hate to say this, but a first time DUI offense can sometimes be reduced to a slap on the wrist. Spending a night in jail can seriously change a person. That's no joke. Hopefully, he learned a lesson without putting anyone in danger.
braggslaw
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:41 p.m.
If they play against Alabama there is a problem
JamesF
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 8:39 p.m.
If this were to happen during the football season and/or if this was a very serious offense (like Clarks which could be a felony...not saying DWI is not serious), I could see your point 100%. However if Toussaint does what he has to do to get on the good side between now and game time I could possibly see him playing maybe in the second half of the game. I know Brady Hoke will do the right thing with these 2. After all he did boot Stonum off the team for continuing to screw up. Just saying.
ted
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:24 p.m.
The signing of Ross Douglass is all we need to know about the decision that has already been made. Frank is gone.
Ted Bundy
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:42 p.m.
Junior CB Terrence Talbot left the program this week. Thats where the scholarship came from. Clark doesnt even appear in court til Aug. 6th. If found guilty, Clark is gone, but that hasnt happened yet.
BornInA2
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:47 p.m.
Due process, folks. I'm not for meting out punishment against people who have been accused of crimes, even when the appear to be all but certainly guilty.
PillowRock
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 9:46 p.m.
Eep: School sanctions haven't waited. "Suspended indefinitely" is a school / team penalty. There is no reason / need to move from "suspended indefinitely" to something with a more specific timeline until everything is in the public record.
BornInA2
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:27 p.m.
Might not need to, but I think it's best if they do wait to see what, if any crime, the legal system determines was committed. Asking a kid to confess to the coach while they have a pending legal case seems nebulous and potentially entangling to me. I'd not want the coach to be called as a witness against the player if it went to trial. "Suspended pending further information"
Eep
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:51 p.m.
If these guys have told the coach that they did what they've been accused of, there is no reason for the coach to wait on the court system before deciding on team discipline. It's certainly important for there not to be criminal sanctions before the cases go to court, but school sanctions don't necessarily need to wait.
Yost Ghost
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:37 p.m.
Fitz blew a .12, that's basically one drink over the limit and we don't know the details of Clark's situation. So let's not jump to conclusions just yet.
Robert Granville
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 3:05 p.m.
Everyone does not have the same tolerance for alcohol. We all know what can happen from drunk driving but that is no reason to bury our heads into sand and pretend every driver with a blood alcohol level above the legal limit is in danger of causing an accident or taking a life. Driving without sleep is just as dangerous if not more so than a .12 BAC but the high horses and public revulsion don't come out for sleepy drivers.
Hebner
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 4:12 a.m.
I agree.
Dave
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:02 p.m.
It is a serious enough offense, that if Fitz is guilty, he needs to sit for at least a little bit. I think he can learn from this, and no game is worth not overlooking something like this.
JustfortheRecord
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:58 p.m.
Do we know if he "ran a red-light" or did one of those "right turn on reds" without coming to a complete stop which the cops use for any reason to pull the car over...?
brian
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:06 p.m.
That is an awful justification to let Fitz play. As if somehow only being a little too drunk to drive makes it okay.
ferdcom
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:54 p.m.
He also ran a red light at a major intersection.
Eep
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:37 p.m.
There's no way that either of these guys will play in the 'Bama game. Hoke said that no decision has been made because no decision has been made. They are probably debating how many games to suspend these guys for - or, in Clark's case, whether he should remain on the team at all. It doesn't mean that they're considering letting them play. I would imagine that Hoke consults with the Athletic Director, compliance personnel, and possibly legal personnel before making this type of decision.
stretch
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:44 p.m.
Totally agree--these two will not play in the 'Bama game. That part of the decision likely has been made, what remains is determination of the punishment. The consequences will be communicated to the involved players before they will be communicated at a live press conference.
ferdcom
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:53 p.m.
If they're not considering letting them play then a decision has been made regarding that game.
GoBlue1984
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:33 p.m.
There's the discipline I thought we'd see... What a joke.
Hebner
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 4:11 a.m.
Coach Hoke is not responsible in the least. This is summer, and I think Coach Hoke should be at home or the office. Should he be sitting in various locations spying on players and intervene like a superhero! Lets be realistic, these guys are going to learn their lesson, trust me.
JamesF
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 8:07 p.m.
What more do you want? They hasn't even been a judgment yet. Hoke is doing the right thing. They are suspended now. Not sure if they will be able to practice. A definitive answer won't be made until they get a judgment and the outcome of it. Not sure how it's a joke. Don't you remember Stonum got booted from the team by Hoke. Believe me Hoke will do what's right. He won't let a player that continues to get in trouble play for Michigan.
kmgeb2000
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:14 p.m.
Seem simple to me, criminals should not play Football or have a scholorship for that matter. I guess the teaching moment of Penn State and Ohio State has already passed if it requires more than a few minutes of discussion which appears to be the case. Anything else is just a concern for potential lost revenue.
Hailmary
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:26 p.m.
I agree kmgeb2000.
PillowRock
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 3:25 p.m.
kmgeb: You're still ASSUMING that "arrested" automatically means that a person did what they are *accused* of. To quote the song: It ain't necessarily so. Plenty of people have been arrested and then later completely exonerated. It happens sometimes. It may well be a small minority of cases; but the fact that such cases exist is enough reason to wait for the process to play out before making a *final* determination about something like kicking the player off the team. It's not like Hoke is letting him play in the meantime. He is suspended.
Hebner
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 4:06 a.m.
We all have red blood running through our veins. I can admit to drinking and driving in my lifetime, as irresponsible as that sounds, it happens. But I do agree that criminals should not play football or have a scholarship. In the case of Fitz and Frank, neither is in that category.
kmgeb2000
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 1:34 a.m.
@PillowRock: Yes, but this is not a court of law its a university football team. You want to play football or maintain a football scholarship don't commit crimes; no DUI, no B&E, etc. There are numerous ways to spin it, but simple is easiest: Behavior not representing the high standards of the UM. But first those standards would need to be something other than the quest for higher revenue. It would be irreverent if they plea bargain to a lesser charge as well. There was little indication Paterno would have been charged criminally but he was out. Seems difficult to have both high standards and a high threshold for malfeasance among players.
PillowRock
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 8:36 p.m.
You are familiar with the phrase "due process", right? They were immediately suspended indefinitely pending what is learned as the legal process runs its course. For the moment, that's all that is appropriate.
Scott
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 6:11 p.m.
Fritz and Frank our felons. Farewell foolish fellows.
Imjesayin
Sat, Jul 28, 2012 : 9:08 p.m.
Thank you Rightmind250 for your brilliant civics lesson. Did you learn that while skipping English class? "Ammendment"? "Governess"? There is a place for fans of the "right" with brilliant ideas and an inability to spell. It's called the Tea Bag Party. The Constitution guarantees due process to all charged with a crime. Even idiots like you, Frank and Toussaint. The Constitution covers more than GOVERNANCE. Didn't you learn that at your rallies? And explain to me how living in "DC, dude" means you know anything? Oh, and I'm a criminal defense attorney who actually graduated from UM if you want my qualifications.
scmaize
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:34 p.m.
Right mind: The right to a trial by a jury of one's peers is in the Constitution. Billy Bob is correct. Being accused of something is not the same as being found guilty.
Hailmary
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 6:26 p.m.
I agree Scott.
Hebner
Fri, Jul 27, 2012 : 4 a.m.
We all make mistakes and we have all been given a second chance sometime in our lives. I am not sure why we think football players have to walk on water. It definitely is not farewell. These young men will just have to pay consequences coach mentioned to earn the right to represent Michigan.
rightmind250
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.
hey billbob, DUI's and robbery are not covered under the constitution. Maybe I missed that ammendment. The constitution establishes the rules of governess of the 3 branches of the government. I live in DC, dude.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 11:18 p.m.
No trial needed? The charge is the same as a conviction? Are you aware that we have a Constitution in our country?
Ted Bundy
Thu, Jul 26, 2012 : 7:38 p.m.
You do know that a DUI is not a felony right? 2nd Degree Home Invasion is though. 1 out of 2 aint bad Scott.