Brady Hoke's 'lunch-pail approach' has Michigan burning up the recruiting trail
Brady Hoke’s Midwestern ties and ‘lunch-pail approach to recruiting’ have given Michigan an advantage on the recruiting trail, analysts say.
Angela J. Cesere | AnnArbor.com
When Michigan athletic director Dave Brandon hired Brady Hoke in January to be the Wolverines’ football coach, he cited Hoke’s Midwestern roots and recruiting acumen as major factors in his decision.
Twenty commitments and a whole lot of buzz later, Brandon -- and the beleaguered Michigan football program -- is reaping the rewards as Hoke and his staff compile one of the nation’s best recruiting classes.
Did Brandon expect this kind of immediate payoff?
“I knew coach Hoke was going to recruit well for us, but I don’t know I would have necessarily thought that, at this point in time, we’d be touted as one of the top recruiting classes in the nation,” Brandon said by telephone Friday.
“So, in that regard, I think coach Hoke has exceeded my expectations.”
FUTURE WOLVERINES
Top-ranked Ohio recruit Kyle Kalis was the latest coup for Michigan. The five-star offensive tackle, once an Ohio State pledge, became the 20th member of a Wolverines' 2012 recruiting class that already is a consensus top-10 group according to the major scouting services.
After a series of good yet unspectacular recruiting classes the past few seasons, what has propelled Michigan into the recruiting stratosphere?
A confluence of new coaches, new schemes and a new-found ability to mine the Midwest’s top recruits -- particularly the ones in Ohio.
THE HOKE EFFECT
It all starts with Hoke.
The former San Diego State coach replaced the deposed Rich Rodriguez. He has Midwestern roots as a Dayton, Ohio, native; former assistant coach at Grand Valley State, Toledo, Michigan and Ball State and head coach at Ball State and now Michigan.
When he took the job with the Wolverines, he emphasized two things about his recruiting strategy: He would target Midwest talent and focus on repairing the defense.
He has delivered in spectacular fashion.
How has he done this without coaching a single down of football?
Recruit Kyle Kalis (67) on his future coach: “Coach Hoke will be the reason U of M gets back on top. And I’m not the only one who sees it that way.”
Cleveland Plain Dealer
“The thing about coach Hoke that really sticks out to me is that he’s real,” Kalis texted AnnArbor.com in an interview last week. “What you see is what you get with Coach, and that’s how it should be.
“Coach Hoke will be the reason U of M gets back on top. And I’m not the only one who sees it that way.”
Michigan already has received 20 commitments at an average of 3.63 stars per recruit, according to Scout’s ratings. Both are tops in the Big Ten.
The Wolverines have one of the league’s two five-star recruits in Kalis. The other -- Ohio State commit Brionte Dunn -- has shown signs he may follow Kalis in rescinding his pledge to the Buckeyes.
He’s even taken visits to Ann Arbor.
Michigan has seven recruits rated as four-star prospects by Scout, the most in the Big Ten. Wisconsin is second with five. Ohio State has three, but only one since coach Jim Tressel resigned May 31 amid allegations he covered for and knowingly played ineligible players.
In-state rival Michigan State has one.
Perhaps most impressively, the Wolverines have commitments from five of their state’s top seven recruits, according to Rivals. The two others are considered Michigan leans.
One of them has taken notice of Michigan’s regional dominance.
“They’ve made a statement,” said Danny O’Brien, a four-star defensive end from Flint Powers who is the state’s second-best uncommitted recruit according to Rivals. “It’s amazing what they’ve been able to put together, especially after the past few years. And it’s made an impact.
“I know a lot of guys who are going there, and it’d be awesome to play with them.”
O’Brien said he plans to name his six finalists this week, and that Michigan would be on that list.
THE OHIO CONNECTION
The Wolverines’ Midwest revival extends to that rival state to the south.
Ohio, one of the country’s great producers of college football players, has long been a focus of Michigan’s recruiting strategy.
THE PLAYERS
Blake Bars (OL, 6-5, 275), Nashvile, Tenn.
Joe Bolden (LB, 6-2, 225), Cincinnati, Ohio
Ben Braden (OL, 6-6, 285), Rockford
Pharaoh Brown (DE, 6-6, 220), Lyndhurst, Ohio
Jeremy Clark (DB, 6-4, 205), Madisonville, Ky.
Devin Funchess (TE, 6-5, 2-5), Farmington Hills Harrison
Allen Gant (DB, 6-2, 210), Sylvania, Ohio
Matthew Godin (DT, 6-6, 270), Detroit Catholic Central
Royce Jenkins-Stone (LB, 6-2, 215), Detroit Cass Tech
Kyle Kalis (OL, 6-5, 302), Lakewood, Ohio
Erik Magnuson (OL, 6-6, 275), Carlsbad, Calif.
Mario Ojemudia (DE, 6-2, 215), Farmington Hills Harrison
Terry Richardson (DB, 5-9, 160), Detroit Cass Tech
Kaleb Ringer (LB, 6-0, 219), Clayton, Ohio
James Ross (LB, 6-0, 209), Orchard Lake St. Mary’s
Caleb Stacey (OL, 6-4, 275), Cincinnati, Ohio
Anthony Standifer (DB, 6-1, 178), Crete, Ill.
Tom Strobel (DE, 6-6, 245), Mentor, Ohio
A.J. Williams (TE, 6-6, 260), Cincinnati, Ohio
Jarrod Wilson (DB, 6-2, 190), Akron, Ohio
But in the past few years, the Wolverines’ haul from that state has flagged.
Rodriguez did grab 11 players from Ohio in 2010, but tended to cast a more national net to find the recruits he wanted to run his spread offense and 3-3-5 defense -- schemes that tend to reward speed over size.
By most accounts, he did not invest as much into maintaining Michigan’s recruiting footprint in Ohio.
“You talk to high school coaches … specifically in Ohio, and it seems their opinion of (Hoke’s) staff is higher than it was of the previous staff,” said Allen Trieu, Scout’s Midwest recruiting expert. “He’s brought in a Midwest-, lunch-pail approach to recruiting, and coaches and players in-state and in Ohio are looking harder at Michigan.”
With six months remaining before National Signing Day and at least five spots yet to fill, Hoke already has picked up commitments from nine Ohio recruits who average 3 2/3 stars each, according to Scout.
If each signs a letter of intent in February, it would be the Wolverines’ second-largest bounty from that state since at least 2002.
THE SCANDAL FACTOR
Hoke’s Ohio pedigree certainly helps him to mine the area, but the scandal that is unfurling at Ohio State helps to form a perfect storm for the Wolverines.
“There used to be a sort of border between Ohio to Michigan,” Kalis texted AnnArbor.com last week. “For whatever reason you’re gonna see a handful of guys make that jump that they usually wouldn’t.”
Tressel resigned and quarterback Terrelle Pryor left for the NFL this offseason as the Buckeyes deal with sanctions related to an alleged memorabilia-for-gifts scheme.
“For most people (in Ohio), going to Ohio State is a big dream,” said Pharaoh Brown, a three-star defensive end from Lyndhurst, Ohio who committed to Michigan in May. “But now, with the sanctions, it’s opening up for Michigan here.”
A good example is Tom Strobel, a four-star defensive end from Mentor, Ohio, who listed Ohio State as his leader for much of the recruiting process.
But two weeks after Tressel’s resignation, he committed to Michigan. Trieu now calls him the Wolverines’ top NFL prospect -- in a class full of top prospects.
Rivals national recruiting analyst Mike Farrell said Michigan was wise to target Ohio this recruiting cycle because the window of opportunity opened by the Buckeyes’ NCAA troubles could be brief.
“Everything looks bleak now for Ohio State, but what’s going to happen is they’re going to do a national coaching search (at the end of the season), and this guy is going to be a slam-dunk hire,” Farrell said.
“Let me put it this way: Michigan didn’t get the top two guys in its search (Jim Harbaugh and Les Miles), and even with that, they’re off the charts right now because of excitement from Hoke they can sell.
“But Ohio State? They’re not going to miss on their top two guys, and things will go back to normal very quickly.”
THE MASTER COORDINATOR
Michigan’s recruiting class has a defensive flavor to it, with 13 guys already committed at every position of need besides tackle.
Rivals recruiting analyst Mike Farrell on Greg Mattison (above): “He’s a guy if you got a lead for a kid, and you get him on campus, he’s going to close the deal.”
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
Greg Mattison is a big reason why.
“In the recruiting world, he’s what we call a great closer,” Farrell said. “When you go to visit recruits, it’s typically assistant coaches and position coaches, and they get kids interested in your program. They’re the table-setters.
“But when you get kids on campus, you need a closer. Since he’s been at Michigan, Greg Mattison has been a defensive closer. He’s a guy if you got a lead for a kid, and you get him on campus, he’s going to close the deal.”
The 31-year college defensive assistant was lured to Ann Arbor from the Baltimore Ravens, where he fielded a top-three defense all three years in the NFL.
He now makes $750,000, more than double any other Michigan assistant, to coach a unit that was No. 108 in the country last year and set several school futility records.
He’s well on his way to earning that salary, and fixing that defense.
“A lot of that is because of his NFL pedigree,” Farrell said. “If you can go up to a kid and say you’ve coached Ray Lewis and you’ve coached Ed Reed, they eat that up, because they want to get to the NFL themselves.
“(Mattison’s) system works, and these kids see that. It’ll go a long way in helping Michigan get back to where it used to be.”
Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at kylemeinke@annarbor.com and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.
Comments
Hailmary
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 4:52 p.m.
So, why do Mich fans and fans around the country still talk about RR? In LA they quit talking about Pete Carrol so why do they keep talking about RR and I'll bet they quit talking about Jim Tressel before they quit talking about RR. So what is this phenom. all about? My guess is it's the what if, the unfinished business, the big question mark, and of course the divided fan base that still labors and argues the point. It will always be a question in Mich. history, was year 4 the year that RR's team was going to lite up the big 10. We'll never know but it will be interesting to see what Brady and staff do with the talent left behind by RR. If this team explodes this year I have a feeling we're going to hear a lot more about Rich Rodriguez and the question that will always be in the minds of Michigan fans everywhere, What if?
truebluefan
Tue, Jul 26, 2011 : 3:37 a.m.
Not sure why every discussion on Brady has to turn into a "aren't we glad RR is gone" discussion. This happens in just about every thread. And we get into the familiar flame wars. Why don't people just accept Hoke's achievements thus far without putting it in the context of the last three years? Some people just hate RR so much that their axe will never be fully grinded, I guess. I don't choose to live life like that.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 9:11 p.m.
@heartbreak: I think it goes deeper. There were far too many Michigan so-called "fans" who hated and continue to hate Lloyd Carr. Just read the spew from Lorraine's numerous posts above, spew that is mostly fictional (e.g., Bo rose from the dead) to see the hatred that still exists today, nearly four years after Coach Carr coached his last game. This is a man who never did anything but represent the U honorably, a man who led the U to its first NC in 50 years, a man who was deeply involved in his community, a man who ran a program of immense integrity. And yet the hatred existed and continues to exist. And it is HATRED. And so RichRod was hired. He was the anti-Carr. He was everything Carr wasn't, and vice versa. And so the haters became lovers. And they assumed that the WCiMFH would quickly surpass Carr's achievements. When he badly underachieved, their hatred for Carr grew. It must have been Lloyd's fault that the team collapsed under the WCiMFH because the WCiMFH couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. The Carr haters were so invested in the WCiMFH that they refused to see his manifest shortcomings. And then the WCiMFH got fired. Why, of course, it was the fault of the Carr-tel. And the hiring of Hoke was due to the Carr-tel. And so the hating of Carr goes on, and the man crushes on the WCiMFH continue. Again, I reference just about anything that Lorraine has posted on the subject. Perfect examples, they are, of what I have described. Good Night and Good Luck
missionbrazil
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 5:17 p.m.
Who are you talking about ? Who is this RR character ?
heartbreakM
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 5:05 p.m.
I have some typos, sorry. Last paragraph: "I don't think he would have ever done WELL here". Another, forgot to add a close quote.
heartbreakM
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 5:01 p.m.
I think it's because former coach was a big time polarizing figure. Many of us feel he should never been named coach and found reasons to vent for the entire 3 years and remain bitter. Why bitter? I guess it's because that coach never found a thing he did to be wrong (at least publicly) and continues to blame everybody else for his failures. Others are fascinated by him for the same reasons that they were 3 years, with your 'what-if' question. Of course, I answer that "what-if" with a big "we would continue to have a poor record against good teams and beat up on poor teams. He could not have been shown the door quickly enough. And I know he'll get a job somewhere next year, and the debate will continue. But you'll never convince me that he is a good coach, or at least the right coach for Michigan in any year. He may do well at Clemson or not. But I don't think he would have ever done here. Just the wrong person for the job from day one.
heartbreakM
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 4:36 p.m.
@Lorain: This topic got started with talking about Hoke's great recruiting (by verbal commitment) and has evolved into yet another gospel revival of why LC messed up the program vs. how former coach ruined a great tradition. I want to respond to both: But first, though I am skeptical of all recruiting ratings, knowing that we won't know anything until 2015, I am reassured by the way Hoke has handled everything about the job of head coach since he came. There was no deception, no comments from other coaches, (and only negative comment was from an SDSU player hurt to see him go), no mass defections, no having to learn where the library is, and overall, a positive vibe through the program. Including his recruits. Now, you claim that JT beat LC like a drum. Well, I was unhappy that Henne, Hart and long were 0-4 and that LC was 1-6 against JT, but it was not exactly a one-sided affair like you suggest. Look at all of the games--most were very close games that came down to the 4th quarter. Not exactly beatdowns like you suggest. Yes, a loss is a loss and it does not matter, but the record in this case did not reflect the reality of the games (think of Troy Smith driving down the field in the fourth quarter and getting a TD to Gonzales to go up, or getting a phantom roughing the passer call that should not have been called, and have given us the ball back). Think of Braylon Edwards nearly catching a ball from Navarre in the end zone to win a game. Think of Clarrett getting out of jail, getting a fluky 4th quarter pass and OSU winning on that drive. Now, think of 100-24 if you want to think of beatdowns. And think of "kumbaya" which was the only response given last year, followed by a ridiculous Josh Groban love-fest.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 8:33 p.m.
Proof, dear sweetheart Lorraine, that Lloyd Carr worked against the program. Proof, that is, beyond the fantasies that exist only in your fertile mind (e.g., Bo Rose from the dead to recommend the hiring of the WCiMFH; PSU "stunk out" the Big Ten in its early years in the league when, in fact, in its second season it went 12-0, won the Rose Bowl, and finished #2 in the nation). Proof, sweetheart? Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.
Carr's teams 'underachieved', starting about 2001. It is NOT a reflection on the kids, but rather on the head coach. For those of us who want to see UM be the best it can be, Carr was a dis-service to the program. He left the cupboard bare, when he left, but even then, was not satisfied. He had to undermine the program after he left. I would not have hired RR, and in general consider myself a fan of defensive football rather than offensive football, but having said that, it is CRIMINAL for a former coach to work against the program that paid him for 13 years. At least, Moeller and Hanlon, were classy enough, to suppprt the head coach while he was here. Looking forward now, I am excited and optomistic about Hoke. I will support him in winning title #43. Go Blue! As for Carr, I hope he moves to Florida, and plays a lot of golf.
Poseidon
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 3:49 p.m.
EyeHeartA2, thank you. Seriously people, are we honestly still having the same arguments about RR that people have been having for the last 4 YEARS? It's time to let the past be the past. Regardless of what Carr did/did not do, regardless of what RR did/did not do, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Let the past be the past. I would much rather talk about the direction this program is headed, then rehash the same arguments over and over again about who did what and why they were bad for UM.
truebluefan
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 3:13 p.m.
"Not sure why every discussion on Brady has to turn into a "aren't we glad RR is gone" discussion." Bingo. One of the best posts of this thread. Good job EyeHeartA2!
Blu n Tpa
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 1:27 p.m.
After reading the posts on this thread, I have got to say that Lorraine Steelman is not a member of the MCC. Nope, he's a fan of tsopio and fellow travelers. Siding with Buck-lies while hammering Hall of Fame Michigan coach Lloyd Carr with distorted comments is over the top. Anyone seeing the last three games of the 2010 season knew that the WCiMFH would NEVER field a complete team that could compete vs top Big Ten teams. Defense and special teams got worse and there was no sign that was going to change. EVER. So LS I am going to ignore your posts, which is my right. TiM Go Blue!
Lorain Steelmen
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 3:41 p.m.
Blu n Tpa. I've never been an osu fan, but I always have been an independant observer of college football, particuarly the big ten. In fact, I posted on JJHuddle (the ohio site)for many years, and regularly defended L-L-L-L-L-Lloyd Carr against attacks from buckeye fans. But the truth is that Tressel beat Carr like a drum. After he 'retired' Lloyd, then turned to undermining the Michigan program, starting with talking Mallett into leaving the program. I don't want to hear any crap from so called UM fans that consider Carr a Michigan man. We don't need Michigan men like that.
Chad Williams
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 3:13 p.m.
Michigans defense was solid before RR but it always lacked athletes on the interior line. They never had a Suh or Fairly type of player that could dominate in the run and wreck havoc on the QB. They need versatile athletes not just some guy who is 300 pounds. They need lateral quickness, explosion at the point of attack.
Terry Star21
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:10 p.m.
I certainly wondered where all the buckeye fans were this summer - the ncaa turning their cheek the other way on the major violations have brought them out again. Corrections on above article; Mike Farrell said, ""Let me put it this way: Michigan didn't get the top two guys in its search (Jim Harbaugh and Les Miles)". Please Media get over this - David Brandon DID NOT offer these two people a contract. There was only one contract offered and that was to Brady Hoke. The people 'in-the-know' are aware, to quiet some Michigan fans who wanted those two, Brandon completed a thorough coaching search interviewing and meeting with people. The intention was from the start - Brady Hoke was the 'only' person M wanted. Additionally, very good article written above. The comments reflect very well that the Michigan Faithful are knowledegable and energetic for the future - and the osu fans are seething and in serious denial. MgoBlueForTim.......and Hokeamania....
nate
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:59 p.m.
Nice to see a topic that most of us can agree on - I'm excited about Coach Hoke and a new start with some great recruits! GO BLUE!
Tom
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:58 p.m.
How ironic that u-m fans laugh and accuse O$U of being cheaters while their OWN program is currently on probation for cheating! Short memories indeed!!
Nic schweigert
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.
They're on probation for practicing too much. Scums of the school in Ohio played ineligible players just so they could win. And lied about the whole issue and was forces to resign. No comparison between the two
Terry Star21
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:15 p.m.
Major difference in a coach not paying attention to his watch and athletes taking money, cars, etc. and a coach covering it up and lying about it. Twisted memories indeed !!
The Black Stallion3
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:45 p.m.
Michigan will make a huge statement when they humiliate Ohio State this year.........just watch.
EyeHeartA2
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.
Not sure why every discussion on Brady has to turn into a "aren't we glad RR is gone" discussion. Yes, we are all glad he is gone. Quite frankly, I am sick of hearing about him. Sort of like I don't want to hear about how your ex was a bum either. I'll just grant you that he was a bum, he did you wrong, he was the scum of the earth, whatever. Now, (looking at his watch and hoping to change the subject) can we move on? I'm looking forward to a fun fall.
Chad Williams
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:44 p.m.
All this next year talk is sickening. 2011 season comes first and that could be the tell all for these recruits. Lose to MSU and OSU, then you will see somethings change. It doesnt help that OSU isnt getting the hammer that was expected when some of these guys made their decision. Nothing has been written in stone and a 8-4 year with loses to MSU and OSU could change some minds. MSU isnt too far behind in recruting with their staff having strong ohio ties and of course OSU. I will agree that a coaching change like a urban meyer will automatically put osu back on track. A lot of pressure on hoke. He cant win jus 7 or 8 games because realistically RR could of did the same this year. He is going to have to be at least MSU this year, OSU is a better team on paper so thats a wait and see approach.
missionbrazil
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 10:04 p.m.
"im just no longer a dillusional wolverine fan anymore." So you were just a "temporary" UM fan, and thus you never were a true UM fan. You might as well be an OSU fan.
Chad Williams
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 12:47 p.m.
No im not a buckeye fan im just no longer a dillusional wolverine fan anymore. A decade of heartbreak, a decade of a preseason top ten ranking only to be gone by conference play. Michigan has only a NC title contender once since 97. By conference play they would have a loss. I watch the demise of the big house turning into the Big Joke. No significant bowl wins. Winning outback bowls and capital one bowls is an acheivement for those guys in east lansing but to me is another sign of not being a Elite team in the country. When we were the best team in the big ten USC shut us down and made us look like we didnt belong with the big boys. Michigan lost the respect of the nation losing to app st. I was living in NC at the time and the guys at worked picked on me. Thats when i became a REALISTIC fan and stopped thinking 12-0 i started to think 9-3 cause its was only the truth about this program.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:53 p.m.
Lorraine wrote: "Hoke 'must win' the osu game (and msu) this year, and post at least 9 or 10 wins. Otherwise, the ship will begin to 'take on' water again." I'm beginning to think that Lorraine is an OSU troll, esp. since she seems to agree so often with die-hard Tosu fans like CW. Good Night and Good Luck
Terry Star21
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:19 p.m.
'talk is sickening'..then why keep reading and attempting very hard to write some intelligent comments ? osu is done, finished - the sooner you realize, the better it will be for you.
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:34 p.m.
Chad...excellent analysis, and well posted. OSU, has the depth to survive a one year drop in recruiting, and the loss of Pryor will actually bring the Buckeyes 'together' as a tighter group. Fickell will characterize himself, much like Fitzgerald at Northwestern, and the players will rally & support him. Hoke 'must win' the osu game (and msu) this year, and post at least 9 or 10 wins. Otherwise, the ship will begin to 'take on' water again..
Hailmary
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:25 p.m.
Supercluck, Something to help ease your pain, I've heard it said, "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".
obe1ball
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:10 p.m.
ERM's ghost, your delusional if you think Hoke has been left with less talent than RRod was. Schilling was the only offensive starter back and the defense had an underperforming Brandon Graham and a bunch of stiffs. Hoke has 20 starters back(and some talented redshirts also).Enough with the revisionist history, i'm sure your namesake wouldn't approve. I'm 100% behind Hoke, who was the perfect hire. Harbaugh would've gotten NFL eyes after 2/3 seasons and Miles has proven to be a scumbag(on & off the field). I fully believe that the ends(A long & glorious Hoke tenure) will justify the means(Carr & his toadies undermining RR at every turn). History is determined by the winners, I understand, I just won't forget what really happened.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 1:31 p.m.
Gee, so the coaches don't matter? The provide no added value to the players? Then I can't imagine why they are paid so much. Yes, Brandon Graham was an exceptional athlete who was having an exceptional rookie season in the NFL until he got hurt. Comparing the vast majority of football players to him is a bit like comparing the vast majority of basketball players to Kobe Bryant. Athletes are different , have different skill levels, and have different coaching needs. Given Ezeh's first season on the team, this was a linebacker headed for greatness. And anyone who watch UM football closely under the WCiMFH knows that it wasn't just Obi Ezeh. For most of three seasons the linebackers and defensive backfield looked like a Chinese Fire Drill--not certain of their placement or assignments; huge gaps in coverage; bad angles; etc. That, ladies, is poor coaching. Good Night and Good Luck
Chad Williams
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 12:25 p.m.
The excuse of playing on a bad defense or having bad coaching is so irrelevant to being drafted. If you have NFL talent then you have it. Kerrigan from purdue is one example, i dont remember purdue being a dominant D. Michigan didnt have talent after the 07 season ended. At the end of the day im sure NFL scouts see the numbers and but film doesnt lie. The eagles saw Graham playing on a bad D but what stood out was HIM. They saw his talent and what he did and liked it. Another example with Mouton, yes he played on some of the worst Defenses in michigan history but scouts saw what HE did on the field and not the team.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 11:31 a.m.
OK. I get it. Three people who failed to do their job (none of whom was Lloyd Carr) = Lloyd Carr undermining the WCiMFH. Never mind the fact that this was NOT about paperwork (which is optional). It was about following the rules. Never mind the fact that the WCiMFH did the EXACT same thing at WVU and got caught. Or did Lloyd Carr undermine him there, too? I do love it how the RichRod slappies blame EVERYTHING that happened during his disastrous tenure on someone else. Lloyd Carr. The Freep. The Fans. Of course, they are merely taking the lead from the object of their man crush, who never accepted responsibility for anything that happened while he was here. Sign on the desk of the WCiMFH and the slappies' motto: The Buck Stops Over There. Good Night and Good Luck
obe1ball
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 4:22 a.m.
ERM's GOAT, Do you need a link to the NCAA report on Michigan? It's not an assertion that Carr's toadies in the Athletic Dept., while working UNDER HIM, did suddenly(when RR was hired) stop filling out CARA practice forms. David Brandon's letters of reprimand to Draper, Labadie and Parker(the 3 said toadies)are of Public Record.Did Carr know this was going on? Well if he didn't, what was he getting paid to do?Was he just propped up at his desk? and funny how Carr retired on the same day Labadie left quietly to another job.Carr sitting in the Iowa coaches box during a game against Michigan is no assertion, did you watch the game? "Yes Graham was better as a senior than as a sophmore.Gee, in my world, that's not a surprise". Your exact words, yet Ezeh went from a monster stud to a LB that couldn't take the proper angle if his life depended on it, because of coaching. You can't have it both ways. Where, in any of my posts did I blame Carr for Mallett leaving? I just cited the troubles he gave Carr and his pot & alcohol abuse while on Michigan's campus and judging from his positive coke test before the pro-combine, he graduated to more powerful drugs while at Arkansas.You may have begged him to represent The University of Michigan, I and many others, certainly wouldn't have.Denard Robinson understands the value of a Michigan education, he is a fine upstanding citizen and didn't have to be begged to stay. The proof of the pudding will be in a few years, when we find out how many of RR's recruits make it to The League, I just know the lack of them in Carr's cupboard.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 2:15 a.m.
oddball: Forms or no forms, the WCiMFH was just cited for the same violations at WVU as he was at UM. So whatever might have happened in the UM athletic department, TWO football programs under the WCiMFH were cited for the SAME violations of NCAA rules. So was our $2.5 million per year coach incompetent in that he could not follow the simplest of rules, or was he a cheater? Don't think there's any other possibility. Regarding Mallett--yes, that is exactly what the WCiMFH was supposed to do--it is precisely what Hoke did with Robinson. But the WCiMFH didn't do that, and he sent a clear message by his failure to do so. So let's not pretend it was Lloyd Carr's fault that Mallett left the program. About Obi Ezeh: he saw little playing time in the first few games of the 2007 season (his redshirt freshman year) yet finished the season with 68 tackles; had 13 tackles and 2 sacks against MSU; and had 12 tackles against OSU. A pretty good tally for a first year player--lots of potential shown. Yes, he did not go in the NFL draft. Gee, ya don't think it was because he and the rest of the Michigan defense was poorly coached for the next three years, do ya? Beyond that, you make a lot of assertions. You can, of course, provide links? Didn't think so. Good Night and Good Luck
obe1ball
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 12:51 a.m.
ERM's ghost, first off, when you call Ezeh a monster, you lose a TON of credibility right off the bat. On to the starters on Offense left for RR. Henne, Hart, Long, Manningham, Arrington, Kraus, Ciulla, Boren, Mitchell all were gone for RR's first season, that leaves Schilling and Carson Butler, so where are these 6 starters(Arrington was a starter) you speak of? Mallett was gone as soon as Mitch Mustain transferred out of Arkansas, Mustain at Ark. was the reason Mallett came to Michigan. You have heard about Mallett trying to transfer a couple of times under Carr, haven't you? One of the times Lloyd threw transfer papers at Mallett saying "I don't like anything about you, if you want to transfer, here's the form, go ahead", couple that with the alcohol and pot abuse and you wanted RR to crawl to Mallett on bended knees? Fat chance. Efforts were definitely made to keep both Manningham and Arrington from leaving but when your old coach is in your ear nudging you out the door. Boren was allergic to running, plain & simple, he veiled it with his "lack of family values" quote, but him being grossly out of shape & performing terribly at the Combine(not even drafted) should've shown you all you needed to know. Lloyd Carr not undermining RR. There's plenty of instances in the documented NCAA report(yes, I read it in it's entirety), where Carr's loyal underlings Labadie and Draper, suddenly stopped doing their jobs(well only the ones that negatively affected RR)that they had been doing for years under Lloyd, as soon as RR took over(ie.CARA Practice forms). 18 MONTHS and not a single practice form was turned in WHILE Lloyd Carr was their boss. West Virginia didn't fill out CARA forms so RR would be none the wiser but Lloyd would know, since Michigan had been filling them out HIS ENTIRE HEADCOACHING CAREER. How about Carr and his former players steering potential recruits AWAY from Michigan? or when Carr sat in the Iowa coaches box for their game in I
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 11:30 p.m.
Michigan revisionists = Bo rose from the dead to recommend Bill Martin hire the soon-to-be WCiMFH. Lorraine wrote: "Or are the rumors true that Bo himself, and Don Nehlen both supported Rodriguez for the new HC job, when LC left?" Source: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/dave-brandon-michigan-football-team-must-return-to-business-as-usual/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:962a0a68-205e-4eda-aabb-31376b1cf74c">http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/dave-brandon-michigan-football-team-must-return-to-business-as-usual/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:962a0a68-205e-4eda-aabb-31376b1cf74c</a> That would have been quite a trick for Bo to have supported the soon-to-be WCiMFH since Bo had been dead for more than a year. So, Bo either rose from the dead, or Lorraine is just makin' it up. Wonder which it is? Kinda like Lorraine and the rest of the MCC complaining about Carr undermining the WCiMFH. Of course, when pressed, they cannot provide a single instance of that being the case. Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.
ober1ball. Excellent post! You have accurately destroyed the 'revisionists', and the Michigan 'wanna be's' who could not find it within themselves, to support the school's football program. Carr did incredilby great damage to the program, during the last 6 years, 2002 to 2007, yet as loyal fan, I supported the program, and def3nded Carr until he 'retired'. But Carr crossed the line, when he undermined the program, because UM did not hire the coach/coaches, he wanted hired. It amazes me, that he received pay for two years as an 'assistant' AD. Just incredible!
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:50 p.m.
Hoke has 20 starters back, many of them undersized for Big 10 football. Moreover, as I noted above, anyone who has 14 wide receivers but not enough O or D linemen to conduct an intrasquad scrimmage has done a poor job of balanced recruiting. In 2012 we will have, AT MOST, 10 returning scholarship offensive linemen, some of those recruited by hoke in the 2011 class. That is poor recruiting. That is the cupboard bare. Underperforming Brandon Graham? Time to take off the blinders. We was but a sophomore. Yes, Graham was better as a senior than as a sophmore. Gee. In my world, that's not a surprise. What is a surprise is that people who were monsters for Carr (e.g., Obe Ezeh) regressed under the WCiMFH. Indeed, the whole defense regressed (from 24th, to 67th, to 84th, to 110th). But I'm certain that that's all Lloyd's fault, right? It's the favorite refrain of the MCC. The WCiMFH inherited a defense with 8 returning starters and an offense with 5 returning starters. And, on the offensive side of the ball, he inherited a lot of talented experience who were not starters (e.g., Arrington and Miner). Of course, he made no effort to keep Arrington or Manningham, and Mallett had to seek HIM out--a sign of what he thought of the very talented people he inherited. But just keep on believin' that "Lloyd left the cupboard bare." Good Night and Good Luck
Cavern Clubs
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
Love all the 6ft+ DBs!!! Click on the YouTube link to "Take The Field"!!! GO BLUE!!! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DPWONUcz4&feature=related" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DPWONUcz4&feature=related</a>
RWBill
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.
Note for Danny O'Brien. Slots are filling up fast and this staff does not hesitate to pull the trigger, so don't wait too long or you may be left with 2d tier schools like Lansing and South Bend.
towny
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 3:04 p.m.
Coach Hoke reminds me of Bo. I know I am jumping the gun but I like everything about him. What a breath of fresh air from last staff. Do you think we will find coach Hoke crying at the podium any time soon. Outstanding players and coaching make a good team and I believe we have both now. Last couple of years showed we where badly lacking. Nowhere to go but up. Go Blue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:20 p.m.
towny...Agreed! I like also Hoke, and you are right on the mark! These two guys BO & Hoke..(throw in Moeller as well)...LOVE/ED MICHIGAN, and consider/ed it an HONOR, to be the head coach at MICHIGAN
towny
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
@superbuck--You forgot this is Michigan territory you better quiet down. I do not care what you say your beloved coach disgraced himself and your university. Take it and be quiet. You and your university needs to eat a little humble pie for awhile.
Ben
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.
Am I the only person who doesn't know what a 'lunch-pail approach' is?
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.
Ben, Bunnyabbot has it pretty close. As a 6 year steelworker from Lorain, I can tell you 'lunch pail', refers to a non-nonsense, down & dirty, hardworking blue collar mentality. Always reports for work, and perserves, no matter what happens, until the job is done. That was the hallmark of Bo's program, and one which was lost here, after 2001 under Carr.
bunnyabbot
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:46 p.m.
It's a business reference to work ethic, referencing hard work= high rewards. Lunch boxes were used by kids, but lunch pails were used for years by the steel, factory workers etc, the roll up your sleeves and get working workers, work hard to get it right or you don't call it a job well done.
RWBill
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.
I'd say so, yes.
towny
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 3:08 p.m.
I agree with tulsatom that's how I interpret it exactly.
tulsatom
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:30 p.m.
Ben, I interpret 'lunch-pail approach' to mean down-to-earth, plan spoken and hard-working fundamental football.
superbuck
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.
Please remember last years OSU Mich game that we have now given you. If we took all the guys that were not supposed to play off the field our defense held your offense and your phenom quarteback to 7 points please remember that and place it high in your record books. Also remember it is signing day that counts and by the time the NCAA is finished and the reality that a very high powered coach will be taking over the Buckeyes you may be eating boiled wolverine with a dash of pepper.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 8:28 p.m.
Dearest Sweetheart Lorraine: You wrote: "Or are the rumors true that Bo himself, and Don Nehlen both supported Rodriguez for the new HC job, when LC left?" Source: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/dave-brandon-michigan-football-team-must-return-to-business-as-usual/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:962a0a68-205e-4eda-aabb-31376b1cf74c">http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/dave-brandon-michigan-football-team-must-return-to-business-as-usual/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:962a0a68-205e-4eda-aabb-31376b1cf74c</a> Yup. It's what YOU wrote. Bo supported the hiring of the WCiMFH "when LC left". Except "LC left" one year after Bo had died. Nothing about Bo supporting the WCiMFH when at WVU (that's a new explanation, by the way). Nothing about it being reported in the A2 News (the old excuse, one dear Lorraine has never provided evidence of). Nope. Bo supported the hiring of the WCiMFH "when LC left". That's what you wrote sweetheart. As for PSU, you wrote: "the league even gave them [PSU] five years of 'byes' before they played osu and UM." Source: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/columnist-rick-reilly-says-michigan-is-dean-wormer-of-the-big-ten/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:a039ae2b-c38a-4fd4-beac-8cbc5ac8bff2">http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/columnist-rick-reilly-says-michigan-is-dean-wormer-of-the-big-ten/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:a039ae2b-c38a-4fd4-beac-8cbc5ac8bff2</a> Your meaning here is clear. The "byes" were that PSU did not play OSU or UM when, in fact, PSU played UM the first four years in the league and have played OSU EVERY year since it joined the Big Ten. But let's just pretend that you meant that PSU had a weekend it did not play during the season. Well, then, you'd be right. If that's what you meant, yes, PSU had byes. And so did the UM. And so did OSU. And, of course, none of this explains your statement that PSU "stunk up the joint" in those early years in the Big Ten when, in fact, in its second year in the conference, it went 12-0, won the conference championship, won the Rose Bowl, and finished ranked #2. Gee. What could possibly explain that disconnect? Just makin' it up again, dear Lorraine. And having been caught makin' it up, you just keep doublin' down and make up even more. Good Night and Good
Lorain Steelmen
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.
ERMG still continues to spread the eronious crap, and distortions, that I somehow believe that BO CAME BACK FROM THE DEAD!. If that doesn tell how delusional Ghost is, then nothing will. Ghost is unable to comprehend that Bo supported RR while RR was at WVU, and instead tries to twist and distort my comments. I think I know what I said. Recently, I posted that Penn State received 'byes' when scheduled vs osu and UM for their first 5 years in the league. Ghost thinks that means that PSU didn't play these teams, in those years. He doesn't know that 'Bye' means that psu had an 'off week' (no scheduled game) before PSU played these teams. Celarly Ghost has displayed that he has absolutely, no clue, what he is talking about.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 2:54 a.m.
Superbuck: Lorraine thought Bo rose from the dead to recommend the hiring of the WCiMFH. Nuff said. Good Night and Good Luck
barnz378
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 2:41 a.m.
Please remember what it like when you were on a roll. Then remember what it is like when things fizzle. Thats what happens in college football. Just like Michigan went through its bad stretch, OSU has lost some too. Don't worry, OSU is like Michigan and will claw its way back, just not right now.
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.
Superbuck. Don't pay much attention to anything that ERMG says, as he is just a 'Michigan wanna be'. You can tell by his responses that he has no connection with the UM, and has never played the game. As far as the 'results' of the investigation, I think the loss of Pryor cuts in two different ways. 1. osu will lose a physically mature, experienced QB, so the offense may be a notch less potent next season. @. On the other hand I have to believe that the chemistry on the team will actually 'improve', since TP was a 'me first' guy rather than a team first guy. osu will be off.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:22 p.m.
Wrong. You vacated victories do not count as victories for the other team. The U's official record last year remains 7-6. Michigan lost that game. Period. But I do understand how cheaters would look for a victory any way they might get it. It's know as O-Lie-O State football. Good Night and Good Luck
Boston20
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:29 p.m.
@Superbuck, The Buckeyes still have great talent ready to play and most of these recruits would be sitting the pine for a year or so anyway. They can come to A2 and play immediately. Once the NCAA finally announces if any additional sanctions will be handed to TOSU, the tope recruits will once again be heading to Columbus. For now, we should let the Go Blue fans enjoy their victory since they are unable to achieve it on the field.
raddesc
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
Smack or fact? Tressel fired, Pryor gone, 2010 season and bowl game gone, UM doing extremely well recruiting Ohio talent (look at the list)......here's some more... " Herbstreit said the move to Nashville, Tenn., was because of the constant criticism he has received from a vocal minority of Ohio State fans who don't understand that his job at the network demands objectivity and fairness." Dispatch, March 11th "Bruce Hooley, who hosted the early afternoon "Big Show" on 97.1 with Chris Spielman and admittedly was never in the bag for OSU, was removed from the air because he had the temerity to call for harsher punishment for Jim Tressel. " Remember, you're on a UM site bragging how you're program is not getting the death penalty from the NCAA! This seems like smack talk to me......ladies and gentleman, you are witnessing the textbook definition of "win at all costs" and throw everyone under the bus while doing so......
scott
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:14 p.m.
Lot of smack for someone whose embarrassment of a team can't win on the field either. (note the lack of an asterisk)
raddesc
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
"The Vest goes in Aug and accepts all the blame your visions of grandor that OSU has fallen to the bottom will be a nightmare to UM again,". Speaks volumes that osu fan sells out their coach like this. Let me get this straight--he's fired and you're happy because you will find a better one? Top player gone (and 5 still suspended) with no proven back up...but he's a bum NFL prospect, right? And finally, "no additional sanctions" means program's integrity is still in tact? That is absolutely backwards thinking at it's finest lasdies and gentleman! Oh yeah, and you're bragging about osu recruits on a UM page with possibly the #1 recruiting class in the nation......just priceless! Hey bucknut, can Herbie move back into the state since it seems everything is going so well for you guys at this moment?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:19 p.m.
@superbuck: As is true with all fans of Tosu, you're a day late and a dollar short: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/sports/ohio-state-avoids-harshest-possible-punishment-from-ncaa/">http://www.annarbor.com/sports/ohio-state-avoids-harshest-possible-punishment-from-ncaa/</a> Yes, in the infallible logic of the NCAA, the massive failures of a coach who made $4 million/year, a coach who was, by his own admission, completely unsupervised by the athletic department, does not represent failure on an institutional level. Which causes one to wonder what, exactly, it would take for the NCAA to find institutional failure. So take heart that YOUR school lied and cheated on a massive scale and, apparently, is going to get away with it. Yeah, I know I'd be proud of that--If I were a hillbilly from Ohio. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Tue, Jul 26, 2011 : 12:15 a.m.
Thanks, Terry. It is indeed great to be a Michigan Wolverine! Good Night and Good Luck
Terry Star21
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 4:02 a.m.
Very nice two articles ERMG...I enjoy your perceptions and wisdom. My second article got deleted, sometimes my blood gets flowing a bit much on people trying to trash our beloved Wolverines. I am allso impressed with Kyle's coverage and writing - we got a great new coach and a great new sportswriter. Great to be a Michigan Football Faithful !
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:51 p.m.
Sweetheart Lorraine: By definition, none of the people you listed are Ohio Hillbillies. They got smart and came north. But there are those people who claim to be U of M grads who live in Ohio. I think they fit the bill, sweetheart. Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 7:03 p.m.
ERMG... Your last comment about people from Ohio being hillbillies, is typical of the narrow minded generalizations that you are famous for. It speaks volumes about what you really think of Bo Schembechler, Jerry Hanlon, Gary Moeller, Dan Dierdorf, Billy Taylor, Tom Darden, Jim Mandich, Rob Lytle, Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, Marcus Ray, et al...just hillbillies, huh? Thankfully, most people here, realize that you are just a UM 'wanna be', and don't speak for Michigan!
superbuck
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:06 p.m.
Well since mlive won't post this i will. And I think when The Vest goes in Aug and accepts all the blame your visions of grandor that OSU has fallen to the bottom will be a nightmare to UM again,. The NCAA has told Ohio State that it won't face the most severe charges possible in the memorabilia-for-cash and tattoos scandal that cost football coach Jim Tressel his job. Investigators said they found no evidence that Ohio State failed to properly monitor its football program or any evidence of a lack of institutional control, according to a letter sent to the university and released Friday. Read more: <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/07/22/ohio-state-ncaa.ap/index.html#ixzz1T1kLxDG5" rel='nofollow'>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/07/22/ohio-state-ncaa.ap/index.html#ixzz1T1kLxDG5</a>
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 11:39 p.m.
You're such a smart young lady Lorraine!! Don't break your arm patting yourself on your back!! Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:56 p.m.
Superbuck, unlike many UM fans, I understand, that osu will field a strong team this year. The NCAA violations will only serve to help Coach Fickell motivate the team. By dodging the extended failure to maintain a culture of compliance charges, osu will turn this thing into a plus, with only a one year 'drop' in recruiting.
81wolverine
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:28 p.m.
I wouldn't count on your school getting away with the obvious violations they've committed until the NCAA announces its final decision - probably in August. Despite the baffling announcement by the NCAA, Ohio State has demonstrated textbook cases of failure to monitor its football program and lack of institutional control. Regardless of what happens, I wouldn't be very proud of what the school has done if I were an alumnus (and thank goodness I'm not).
A2Realilty
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:48 p.m.
Your new signs can read: "It has been 0 days since ohio* lied and cheated in an effort to beat Michigan."
DonAZ
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
Let's let the chips fall where they may ... then come fall let's suit up and play ball. Michigan may not win against OSU this year. But they will restore balance to the rivalry. And that will be a good thing for Michigan, Ohio State, the Big Ten and college football.
tulsatom
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 12:20 p.m.
"The thing about coach Hoke that really sticks out to me is that he's real," Kalis texted AnnArbor.com in an interview last week. "What you see is what you get with Coach, and that's how it should be. Coach Hoke will be the reason U of M gets back on top. And I'm not the only one who sees it that way." I see it that way, too, and have for years. I truly believe that substance is more important than style, and the past few years for me has been an approach of 'style over substance' in which you look flashy and marvelous against lesser teams only to get blown out by the better teams when push comes to shove and your manliness and resolve get tested. On recruiting, it serves a double purpose to recruit well in Ohio. First of all, Ohio is rich in football talent and U-M has historically gotten some of its best players there, so it definitely helps U-M to recruit Ohio. Secondly, when U-M gets some of the best talent from Ohio, it leaves less talent for Ohio State to choose from, since OSU tends to get most of their players from in-state. I remember a quote from an ex-Michigan player back in the 70s or 80s who said something like, "Not all Ohio high school football players go to U-M, just the best ones". This may be happening again.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8:49 p.m.
Lorraine wrote: "while the previous coach undermined Rodriguez, and Rodriguez, never had the support of the big money boys in Detroit." Pure fiction. Who exactly are the big money guys in Detroit (Detroit?? Really????) who support Hoke but undermined the WCiMFH? And how, exactly, did they influence what happened on the field in the worst three years of the UM football program? Betcha Lorraine won't answer that question. Proof that Coach Carr, or anyone else, undermined the WCiMFH? There is none. Oh, wait. Lorraine is sure to spew about Lloyd Carr telling Ryan Mallett to go to Arkansas. Yup. It happened. AFTER the WCiMFH failed to contact the team's prospective starting quarterback. AFTER the WCiMFH had made clear in the press that Mallett was not the type of quarterback for his scheme. And AFTER Mallett had sought out the WCiMFH and came away from that meeting with something less than a warm and fuzzy. Yes, AT THAT POINT, Mallett sought the advice of a mentor he trusted. And that mentor, under those circumstances, gave the young man some very good advice. Didn't want to lose Mallett? Then the WciMFH needed to conduct himself differently. And the funny thing about this (funny-weird, not funny--ha ha) is that the lovers of the WCiMFH blew off Mallett's leaving as no big deal--he didn't fit the offensive style of the WCiMFH--until they found out that Carr had told him he ought transfer. THEN it became a BIG DEAL. Just add this to the list of Lorraine fiction, the best of which was that Bo rose from the dead to recommend Bill Martin hire the WCiMFH. Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:52 p.m.
Tulsatom. I think Both Rodriguez and Hoke are blue collar, lunch box, type coaches. The differences are basically twofold. 1.) Rodriguez was an 'offensive' coach, while Hoke is a 'defensive' coach. 2.) So far the previous coach has not undermined Hoke, and Hoke has the support of the big money boys, in Detroit. while the previous coach undermined Rodriguez, and Rodriguez, never had the support of the big money boys in Detroit.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 12:01 p.m.
When the WCiMFH was hired at the end of the 2007 season he made a (thankfully unsuccessful) effort to recruit Terrell Pryor. That's it. He made no effort whatsoever to put his mark on the 2008 recruiting class. Hoke got hired later in the recruiting cycle than the WCiMFH, yet fully 11 of the 21 recruits committed AFTER his hire. And, at the time of his hire, Rivals rated the U's class 34th, as I recall. It finished rated 21st. And now his 2012 class is a monster This guy can flat out recruit. Of course, it is on-the-field results that count, and it will be a couple of years before coaching and recruiting will overcome the team's shortcomings (e.g., 14 scholarship wide receivers while not enough scholarship linemen on either offense or defense to run a good scrimmage). The MCC have delusions that Lloyd Carr left the cupboard bare. An even cursory look at the by-position depth of the current Wolverines will reveal serious imbalances from position to position that will take a couple of years to repair. Yet despite this, I'm betting that Hoke, Mattison, and company will do a heck of a lot better than 3-9 in their first year with an emptier cupboard than the WCiMFH inherited and, oh by the way, while implementing entirely new systems, as well (the two excuses the MCC give for the WCiMFH's failures in 2008 . . . . . and in 2009 . . . . . and in 2010). So, this is a long way of saying that we are clearly on the right road, but give it some time. It will take time to fix the damage, and Hoke is well on the way toward doing so. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Tue, Jul 26, 2011 : 4:25 p.m.
WciMFH = Worst Football Coach in Michigan Football History MCC = Man Crush Crowd And both are amazingly accurate descriptions of their subjects. Good Night and Good Luck
Ross
Tue, Jul 26, 2011 : 2:12 p.m.
Hey, I've been reading your posts long enough to know that WCiMFH = Rich Rod and MCC = supporters of his, but can you please decode these acronyms for me? Haha, thanks.
missionbrazil
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 2:15 p.m.
Macabre "Lloyd Carr was 81-23 in Big Ten play.... RR was 6-18 in Big Ten play." It's still amazing (and painful too) to me that whatshisname almost had as many BT losses in 3 years as LC did in 13 years. Amazing that some people still try to blame LC for whatshisname's failures, and they try to compare them. LC is a college football hall of fame coach ... whatshisname is a total failure at UM. Nuff said.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Jul 25, 2011 : 8:42 a.m.
No, RR did not inherit nothing. RR inherited four years' worth of top-ten recruiting classes. RR ran off the quarterback. RR paid no attention to the defense. And the result was the worst three-year period in Michigan football history. Lloyd Carr was 81-23 in Big Ten play. He knew how to recruit and he knew how to coach. RR was 6-18 in Big Ten play. He did not know how to recruit in the Big Ten, and he did not know how to coach. Brady Hoke can flat-out recruit. I'm hopeful he can coach, too. But he certainly can't be worse than his predecessor.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 8 p.m.
Dearest Sweetheart Lorraine, You never disappoint. Indeed, you've proven my sub-post above: "Yeah, I've heard about Lorraine's expectation's of the football team this year. Laughable." You were willing to continue with the WCiMFH, who never approached nine wins, whose best team finished tied for 7th in the Big Ten, who was 1-13 against MSU/PSU/Iowa/Wisky/OSU, who had the two worst defensive teams in Michigan history, and who lost to OSU three years in a row by a combined score of 24-100, and yet you expect Hoke to perform miracles with essentially the same team--18 returning starters last time I checked. The only conclusion a reasonable person could reach given that expectation is that you have come to the recognition the the WCiMFH couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. But that's not it, is it? Nope. You're just setting a standard for Hoke you don't expect him to meet so that you can pine away for the your long lost love, the WCiMFH. By the way, given your most recent statement of "facts" (that PSU did not play UM or OSU for its first several years in the league and that they "stunk out t he joint", when PSU played UM its first four years, has played OSU EVERY year since it joined the Big Ten, and, in its 2nd year went 12-0, won the Rose Bowl, and was #2 in the nation), I think we'll put your "Lloyd left the cupboard bare" story in the fiction section. Lorraine on PSU's first years in the Big Ten: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/columnist-rick-reilly-says-michigan-is-dean-wormer-of-the-big-ten/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:a039ae2b-c38a-4fd4-beac-8cbc5ac8bff2">http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/columnist-rick-reilly-says-michigan-is-dean-wormer-of-the-big-ten/?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:a039ae2b-c38a-4fd4-beac-8cbc5ac8bff2</a> where she wrote: "I remember when Penn State came in the league. . . . the league even gave them five years of 'byes' before they played osu and UM....and they stuill [sic] stunk up the joint." Good Night and Good Luck
Lorain Steelmen
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 6:47 p.m.
ERMG. I think YOU are delusional when you say that RR inherited more talent than Hoke has. That comment is ridiculous! Unless you believe that Bill Sheridan or Steven Threet were better QB's, than Denard Robinson or Devin Gardner. (Unless Lloyd Carr is successful in talking either of these kids into transferring like he did with Mallet.) As for my expectations, for this team, RR started at 3-9 with NOTHING, and increased each year to 5 and 7 wins. Had he stayed another year he would have been 9 wins, possibly 10. SO, if Hoke expects to be considered a better coach than RR, he had better win at least 9 games, and preferably 10. No rocket science there. Unllike you however, I am supporting UM's head coach, not like when RR was here, and you were attacking the head coach, the players, and the program, in general, on a regular basis. (But I expect that from you since you are just a Michigan 'wanna be', wiith NO connection to the school whatsoever.)
scott
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 5:12 p.m.
Who do you think was good in 2008? Sheridan? Nowicki? Just because you know their names doesn't make them good.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.
Yeah, I've heard about Lorraine's expectation's of the football team this year. Laughable. Good Night and Good Luck
DonAZ
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.
Oh, by the way ... didn't you hear? Hoke has one year to best WCiMFH's 7-6 record *and* beat Ohio State or he's officially a bust. And if he's a bust then it validates the WCiMFH's tenure and proves Brandon wrong for firing him. It's all about validating cherished ideas about football.
DonAZ
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 : 1:19 p.m.
The ideal football team -- 1 quarterback and 21 slot receivers no more than 5'8" and 160 pounds. Put the second-string ninjas in on defense to give them practice running around. Defense is a waste of time. Score, score and then score some more!