Mick52

Fri, Aug 13, 2010 : 12:55 p.m.

Thanks Yelmonian.

kamie123

Fri, Aug 13, 2010 : 8:26 a.m.

umthicknthin: Graduation rates that um has are incredible, as a matter of fact maybe we should be an like harvard and yale and play them every year. Graduation rates at other are lower than ours partly because their players are good enough to leave after three years. Look at the number of underclassmen that leaves those schools and look at ours. Look at there records the past 5-10 years and look at ours. Look at the national titles and look at ours. We will not win in the new money hungry athlete era by recruting guys that want education. We are talking football not doctors and lawyers. Terelle Pryor spurned michigan because he was told he had a better shot the pros at osu not because osu heart research program is better. As i said before its a new generation. Every coach in college football understands that now why havent you. Bill martin and lloyd carr understands thats why they retired, they didnt want to or couldnt keep up with the new times. Tradition is a cute word for old. As i said before you have to think about 18 year old young men and whats traditon to them. Think about what they remember and not your own memories. Im not taking away from what we have down with a 100 plus years of football. I respect your thoughts and michigans tradition but ask a 18 year old today what he remembers bout michigan football and then you will get your answer.

ChelseaBob

Fri, Aug 13, 2010 : 5:36 a.m.

Kubrick- I agree with you there. It seemed bizarre when Martin hired RR. I assumed he did some deep research and there was more to the man than met the eye. Obviously not. And you are correct. If RR was winning, I still wouldn't want him here, but I'd be a lonely voice taking much abuse for that position.

UMthicknthin

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 10:11 p.m.

First of all, I'm saddened that JT is leaving. I wish him luck. Kamie, I can't believe you're a student at UM. Have you heard of anything like tradition? I'm one of those old school boys that are used to Michigan winning. You might have heard of Bob Ufer, he was an announcer, and a real Michigan Man. We then had a great institution of higher learning, and a great football team. Believe it or not, there weren't any felons on the team. There was a time when you went to a major institution of higher learning that you actually acquired an education. This $5M to $10M a year was unheard of. The ability to count all of your fingers and toes didn't count, you actually had to learn something. Maybe you should check the graduation rate of those guys at Fla, OSU, Texas, Ala, and OK. Other than oSU, the Big 10 has the highest Academic standards, besides the Ivy league of any major conference in the country. Believe it or not, there is still something said to having an education.

GoblueinNE_PA

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 3:23 p.m.

I think most of the anti RichRod sentiment stems from the facts that he's: 8-16 over all 3-13 in the Big 10 Has brought down NCAA sanctions on the program. YMMV

Lorain Steelmen

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 3:18 p.m.

Ok, so a kid, (Turner),left the team. Oh boy, now all the RR haters come out from under their respective rocks, to take cheap shots at the coach. Nothing new about that. In a way, I always got the feeling that Carr carried these kind of kids, and it showed, annually in the OSU games, and the Oregon and Appy State games. Well, there's a new sheriff in town, and he doesn't let kids slide anymore. Good for him! Everyone works, wow, what a concept! I like the fact that RR wants the best kids playing, and he will play whomever wants to work hardest, for the spot. I think a lot of the anti-RR sentiment comes from the fact that RR is a no-nonsense, blue collar guy from WV, who will not tolerate players, coaches, alums, or writers, that think they somehow are entitled to favorable treatment....I say good for RR! I hope he (and this team) prove a lot of these clowns wrong. Go Blue! I have a hunch this will be a VERY good year.

javajolt1

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 2:25 p.m.

I'm getting so tired of the extra-curricular bad news coming out of this football program. Rules violations Attrition TWO 3-9 records Personal Legal crap....I miss the good old days when most of the time we discussed the positives and negatives that happened ON THE FIELD on football Saturday. Anyone else????

GoblueinNE_PA

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 2:23 p.m.

Kamie You didn't need to tell us how old you are, we could tell by your lack of punctuation. Google "grammar", it might help you out. As for you points, a number of those schools you mentioned, such as USC, Oklahoma, LSU, and Alabama all went through major down periods in the late 90's and early 2000's. All of them would have had the exact same disadvantages you ascribe to Michigan now and yet, they turned it around. I wonder how that happened??? Maybe they all brought in quality coaches who knew how to coach up talent and then recruit top notch players later. Carroll won in his 2nd year, as did Stoops and Saban. They also started from much lower points, coming off of bad seasons by the prior coaches. They didn't need to recruit their kids first, they took what they had and made a team out of them. I don't for a minute believe Michigan is done for. Once we get the right guy leading the team, maybe it's RichRod though I doubt it, we'll start winning. The recruits will follow.

kamie123

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 12:22 p.m.

The way I see it 5-7 and 9-3 are the same. No big ten Championship and No national championship. If this is the school of the leaders and the best it should be 12-0 or bust every year. and for the sarcastic fans out there 9 wins is closer to 12 but almost doesnt count(sorry). If RR fails so be it maybe the fans that go to bowl games should go see another so you can get a grasp on what it takes to win championships in 2010 not 1980. all i see is a bunch of whiny 30-60 year old people on this blog, too bad 30 year olds arent our primary recruits or we wouldnt be so bad. The game changed from when a lot of you older fans where part of the bo era.Im 23 and to get the talent we need to win isnt what it used to be for us. Michigan is irrelevant to todays 18 year old. They were 5 when we last won a title. All they have seen is rose bowl beatings(plural) by usc, osu whoopins(again plural), and humiliating home losses(once again plural) to just about every team that we play. Who wants to play for that school oh because tom harmon lol or Bo god rest his soul but for one hes dead and two today recruits today werent born when he still was the coach. As it is for coaches in this business the same goes for recruits and that is what have you done lately. That answer is NOTHING compared to florida, alabama, osu, texas, oklahoma, usc. Hints why in no real order thats the ranking for recruiting and the new polls. Those six team continue to dominate recruiting because thats what 18 year olds know TODAY. Yea USC had its scandal, but that scandal, hasn't hurt their recruiting like our scandal has and whats worst is that what they did was worse. If you want more talent we have to adapt to the changes of today. Its no more black and white tvs its HDTV. The national spotlight isn't at 12pm its at 8pm. And for people that want so much to happen for this team u should be willing to give up ur stuck up way of thinking that teams win because fans our happy. Teams win because they know they players on the field make it happen and fans are to watch not think they should be satisfied more than the people on the field. All you guys want is someone like les miles... Too bad he wouldnt leave a 9-3 lsu team anyday cause he can get guys to play not jus for him but that school. Its not RR thats pushing recruits away its our school pushing away talent like demar dorsey before he makes a mistake on campus. You guys really think talented players like that wanna come here now. Whats worse he was crucified (technically from the legal standpoint) for no wrong doing. Whats that next player that likes RR type of style gonna say. sure as hell cant play for michigan so i will go to osu instead. No matter the coach if we want the 1980 wolverines back then he will only last 4 years.

Kubrick66

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 11:36 a.m.

ChelseaBob... I understand your concerns but you're blaming the wrong person. You should point that finger a Bill Martin and even Mary Sue Coleman... they are the two that hired him. They both knew what they were getting, that they were going to have to deal with contracts, personal issues, resistance of to a "non-Michigan Man. They should've done their due diligence. But again, in the end it all comes down to wins. Wins will not erase the past. But if he would've won the last two seasons-- especially the first-- do you really think we'd be having this conversation?

kamie123

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 9:55 a.m.

Its a right hook from mike tyson, but not a knockout. Just because he was a five star or however many stars he was, doesnt mean he would been the next best thing. Kovac was a walk on the and played more than these so-called high profile recruits. Talent does matter in a lot of cases in football but its clear since day one that RR will play anyone that wants it more than the other guy regardless of talent or age. I can honestly say that is one of the few things to like about RR. Your not going just show up and play because who you are. Prime example in Tim Tebow, you can say what you want about his ability but you cannot question his leadership and desire to work hard. He was the most respected player on his team not because of his 5 star status or his stats but he worked just as hard if not harder tham anyone on his team. Those are the guys we want not prima donnas running around campus thinking that they are owed something. Its one thing to be inexperienced as we are in the secondary but its another thing not to have a leader and after woofolk leaves who will be our leader. Turner did not want to play if it wasnt handed to him. Thats what I've gained from a lot of the guys in the program that left in the RR era. Lloyd had his depth chart set for the next year after each bowl game which is the reason a lot of guys never got better. Look at kevin grady, if lloyd carr actually had open competition he would of been awesome. Grady was always out of shape and never got better. Look at forcier and robinson, if we had lloyd carr, robinson would be leaving also and we would be stuck with a QB that wasnt pushed to get better cause unless and injury occurred Gardner would not be playing. Ron English's comment was dumb but it was misread. He basically said we dont want any Adam James on our team that goes home to mom and dad and cry. He wants guys to be tough mentally and physically.

umgoblue47

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 8:19 a.m.

boyfriend whats your point? maybe the sky will fall, maybe some one will like me, maybe i'll get a date? boy you must live an intersting life... maybe...

ironyinthesky2

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 7:37 a.m.

RobbiesBoyfriend - I believe an "elite" athlete would spend the summer getting prepared for the changed defense. Although, I guess he can take his ball and go home and pout...

ChelseaBob

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 5:35 a.m.

Kubrick- RR's off the field problems have nothing to do with an interview and everything to do with a lack of ethics. First, he decided he didn't want to honor the binding contract he signed with WVA. Then when the courts didn't accept his laughable defense, he hit my school for the bill. Then he was sued for some real estate deals that he got into with a banned booster. Why he partnered with someone like that is the first question, but his defenses in those lawsuits seems equally weak. Time will tell. Then we encountered the NCAA/recruiting problems. That along with blaming players for defeats and taking credit for victories. I don't care how many wins he gets this year. This guy doesn't belong here. Never did. The sooner we get there, the sooner we put this behind us.

Kubrick66

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 1:52 a.m.

MetricSU... I believe I covered all that some 20 posts back when I said... {You are correct, a closer look on my behalf shows that MSU played very little 10 game seasons in the first half of the 20th Century. As the kids say... "My bad." As for the last 50 years... the same can't be said. Just two 10 win seasons in that span... And yes, nice job in the 50's and early 60's. You did well for yourselves... But I imagine those days don't offer you much solace over the last 40 plus years.}

Kubrick66

Thu, Aug 12, 2010 : 1:50 a.m.

MetricSU... I believe I covered all that some 20 posts back when I said... {You are correct, a closer look on my behalf shows that MSU played very little 10 game seasons in the first half of the 20th Century. As the kids say... "My bad." As for the last 50 years... the same can't be said. Just two 10 win seasons in that span... And yes, nice job in the 50's and early 60's. You did well for yourselves... But I imagine those days don't offer you much solace over the last 40 plus years.}

3 And Out

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 11:43 p.m.

LOL@ sparty having to go back 50 years to find a successful run in Football.

MetricSU

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 9:39 p.m.

Boy, some of these UM fans are math challenged (including someone whose screen name begins with a K). For the record, in the 1950s and 1960s rarely played 10 games. That's an arbitrary total set by UM fans so that they can dismiss the considerable success MSU once had. Yes, it's a long time ago, but several of those fewer-than-10-win seasons resulted in NCs for MSU. How many of the 10 or more win seasons resulting in NCs for UM? Right. 1/2. Some of MSU's records: 1950: 8-1 1951: 9-0 1952: 9-0 1953: 9-1 1955: 9-1 1957: 8-1 1965: 10-1 1966: 9-0 Look at that! Only one 10-win season in the bunch. I guess using UM math those seasons were failures.

GoblueinNE_PA

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 8:35 p.m.

All I can say about Turner is "Oops!" Can some of you RichRod guys explain something to me. How can you be more loyal to a coach that's been here 2 years than to the University? There is no realistic way that you can justify your continued support based upon his record either on or off the field. Doesn't make any sense to me. I went to UofM, not RichRod U. Metric, people are forgetting Kevin Newsome. QB recruit we had sewed up until RR showed up. Now, he'll probably be the starter at PSU.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 6:08 p.m.

Jaxon, I think the 62 comments shows how popular football is, and how big a dead period sports are in right now. I am chomping at the bit for college ball to start. I don't care what ball club it is, I'm paying attention to it. And at this point, with just practice... yep, injuries, drop outs, and NCAA investigations can be the only sure discussion. The rest is all just conjecture. And it makes for good water cooler talk. Come on September 4! The day can't get here early enough.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 6:07 p.m.

yeah I wouldn't know, I'm not a Spartan.

Jaxon5

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:57 p.m.

This student didn't play one down for Michigan but it generated 62 comments. I'm hoping we have something to write about after Sept 4. One post said something about UM being 5-0 going into the MSU game, or 9 wins and 3 losses at season end. Uh... this is 2010, not 1980.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:55 p.m.

Lokalisierung... "There have been plenty of huge programs who have gone into a good decade funk." Now that would hurt. Don't even joke. Just the thought gives me shivers. I can't imagine what it must be like to go through a 40 plus year funk? C'mon, smile-- All in good fun.

azwolverine

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:51 p.m.

Jay, I couldn't agree more.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:42 p.m.

"As for the last 50 years... the same can't be said. Just two 10 win seasons in that span.......But I imagine those days don't offer you much solace over the last 40 plus years..." In the last 50 years michigan has more 10 win seasons, but MSU has more National Championships. But blah blah that was a long time ago agreed. The main point, I believe he was trying to make, was things DO and CAN change. It is not a given that Michigan football will always be a powerhouse. I understand you're thinking they'll be back and as storng as ever but you never know. I don't think the issues with the football team currently are enough to ruin the program like like the basketball program, but we shall see. There have been plenty of huse programs who have gone into a good decade funk. On a side note, it would be interesting to see if records are kept about students transfering from the team. I wonder if they are higher in RR era. I would think so becasue i hear about it more, but that may just be due to the microscope it's under these days.

RobbiesBoyfriend

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:30 p.m.

Maybe Turner's difficulty in staying in shape over the summer was due to his having knowlege of how the team was planning to use him this year in the 3-3-5. Maybe an elite athlete was having trouble wrapping his arms around a program that's less sophisticated than the high school he came from. Maybe Turner was the smartest kid on the Locker room. Maybe he woke up one day and the stockholm syndrome had wore off.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:29 p.m.

Mick, Here you go. http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/prepare/athletes/clearinghouse

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:26 p.m.

BornInA2... I don't think many would argue with your stance. Though I am one that feels that all this is happening because of the product he has put on the field. Guys like Turner are less likely to leave a school that is winning... That also goes for the "old school" shadow people that have more or less instigated a great share of RR's problems. Win this year... if not, your prayers will be answered.

Mick52

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:14 p.m.

Does anyone know what the NCAA Clearinghouse is? Never heard of it, heard of the Publisher's Clearinghouse. A delay in processing?? Sounds fishy to me. Didn't follow the rules, eh? This NCAA Clearinghouse may need to be investigated. Apparently they may not have filled out the required forms correctly. Probably spent too much time each week trying to practice what to do. Scandal!! Major infraction here!! Scandal! Investigate! Investigate!

Mick52

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:03 p.m.

Won't he have to sit out another year unless he goes to a school in a different division? I don't put much stock in the star system used to rank recruits. These guys are still developing and I think desire and work ethic are more important that how they performed in HS. Kind of shocked though that after two horrible un-Michigan like seasons all the players would have made a little extra effort this year and came in to practice in much better shape than reported. I think the problem last year was turnovers. Maybe cost three game, esp Mich St. I would not be surprised to see a much improved team if they can just put a lid on the TOs. Defense wins ballgames.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:02 p.m.

Lokalisierung... You are correct, a closer look on my behalf shows that MSU played very little 10 game seasons in the first half of the 20th Century. As the kids say... "My bad." As for the last 50 years... the same can't be said. Just two 10 win seasons in that span... And yes, nice job in the 50's and early 60's. You did well for yourselves... But I imagine those days don't offer you much solace over the last 40 plus years... Just as the last two Michigan season have been quite the headache for UM fans... I hope you can see the difference between two years and 40 plus years... You get it, right? Anyway... Good luck to you this season. And thanks for your continued interest in Michigan football. Go Blue!

BornInA2

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 5:01 p.m.

@Kubrick: I am still a fan of the team, the tradition, the idea of winning without cutting corners. I am not a fan of this coach. From the way he left WVU and immediately fired the entire staff here, to his incessant blaming of everyone else for his failures on and off the field and seeming unwillingness to be accountable. He's not done a single thing to impress me and I can't wait for him to go elsewhere and take his stinking results and approach and lack of integrity with him. I didn't like losing to Appy State, but I never doubted Carr's integrity or commitment to the student athletes, and I admired his disdain for and disinterest in the media. Carr is a Michigan Man. I see RR as nothing more than a failure here with an exaggerated ego.

heartbreakM

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:49 p.m.

I am surprising myself by agreeing with Tater. I don't think the world is falling, and I don't blame RR for this. This transfer, though, is why I have consistently posted after other high-ranked recruits signed not to get too carried away. Players don't always develop or mature, or like it. There is a lot that goes into being a college student, a football player at a high level (and div I), and not all the kids pan out nor can they always handle it. Michigan football will go on. The discussion on RR is a whole other point, and I agree with Yelmonian who said that RR is not a good fit with UM. But I don't think this has much to do with Turner's leaving. (And while I still don't know why Boren left, I suspect it had to do with RR not recruiting his younger brother after LC had begun to do so, thus making the family angry). To sum up, though, I think this transfer is a good example of why we can't keep looking to next year or the next year and say, well, RR didn't have his guys. He has to coach up the guys who are there and do well, and IMO, he has not done a good job of that at Michigan.

Lokalisierung

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:44 p.m.

"I'm well aware of MSU football history... Which consists of exactly two 10 win seasons in 114 years of football." Classic UofM argument, fans never get sick of changing whatever conversation you're having into some tangent in history. A well thought out fact was givin about winning NCs at MSU, the retort is about how many 10 win seasons MSU has; makes no sense (Sure they didn't even play 10 game seasons for many of those years but don't let a fact get in the way of a good story).

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:29 p.m.

Yelmonian... You certainly are.

Macabre Sunset

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:25 p.m.

Those who remain will become champions. Rich Rodriguez will leave in November.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:25 p.m.

Kubrick... Just to lend credence to your statement about loyalty... Us Spartan fans are some of the most loyal fans you will ever meet! Thought that might give you a chuckle.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:17 p.m.

BornInA2... So you're saying you are no longer a Michigan football fan? Shame. There's a big difference between "Drinking the Kool-Aid" and actually rooting for your team win or lose. In the words of the great Fielding Yost... "True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty."

Rodie

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:11 p.m.

His career never got off ground because the coaching staff sucks. RR arrives where talent is in place, they leave or never develop further. RR brings in talent, their careers never get off the ground. What a joke!

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:06 p.m.

MetricSU... I'm well aware of MSU football history... Which consists of exactly two 10 win seasons in 114 years of football. Can't wait for the 2010 season to begin. Good luck in East Lansing. And thanks for your continued interest in Michigan. Go Blue!

BornInA2

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

The ship called Rodtanic has hit many an iceberg. Some are still seated on the deck blindly listening to the 12 piece orchestra play as the ship lists frighteningly to port, but those wiser (and having partaken of less Koolaid) are headed for the lifeboats. More time is not going to help this fatally damaged vessel. Rodtanic significant accomplishments: 0 Rodtanic significant failures: Too many to count

MetricSU

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 4:01 p.m.

tater: Thank goodness you weighed in with the "this isn' really a loss at all" email. For a minute I was worried that the sun would not rise tomorrow morning. Do you think RR should've known something about Turner's work ethic before recruiting him? Is it really very hard to find out such information?

Jay

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:55 p.m.

A program like Michigan did not need a complete transformation. People panicked with the loss to App. St. and maybe a few other games that should have been won. It seems if Michigan would have had the confidence to open it up more (kinda like Lloyd did when they beat Fla in their last bowl)and let their top tier/ pro-style athletes that they used to get play they would still be at the top with Alabama, Texas, Ohio St. Just a shame to completely change a program that was already top notch. Not that Ryan Mallet was all that...but he will be a pro...probably a first round pick. A little tweeking was all that was really needed...not wholesale change.

MetricSU

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:52 p.m.

Kubrick: When you said "things" I assumed you were making a broad statement. You probably don't know MSU football history especially well, but MSU won national championships in the 50s and 60s. UM was inferior during that time, and has won a single, shared NC since then. So, things have changed in AA and EL over the long haul in football -- with, of course, advantage UM. UM football intrigues me -- basketball much less so -- because of the entitlement complex shown by its fans over the past two years. Prior to 2008, one could not really know the true UM fan because UM mostly won (with exceptions such as the distastrous App. St. game). But since that time, UM fans have shown themselves to be petulant and needy, just like other fans. On top of that is the sense of entitlement. It has not put UM football fans (with exceptions, of course) in a good light. Things are boring right now with MSU sports. The QB situation has been decided, MSU has depth at almost every position, and MSU basketball landed yet another top BB recruit -- this time for the class of 2012. Ho, hum.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:34 p.m.

Yogi, You know... it's a sad thing when the big brother gets old and decrepid (sp?)... especially when the ladies (recruits) start looking at the little brother because he's cuter.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:29 p.m.

MetricSU... This is a football discussion. But for arguments sake, yes UM did historically have a basketball program as good, if not better than MSU up until the late 90's. Of course now there is no comparison. So bravo to you! As for football, enjoy it while you can. And as always thank you for your continued interest in everything UM.

Yogi

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:28 p.m.

Kids leave programs all the time for a variety of reasons. Everything is magnified right now because of the past two seasons. @yelmonian I beat my big brother a few times while growing up but he still is and always will be my big brother...... Go Blue.

MetricSU

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:18 p.m.

Kubrick: Quite full of yourself today, I see. It's odd how you always write the same thing. One wouldn't know J.T. Turner is leaving the team based on your posts. Heck, UM could've just gotten great news about a new recruit. And you might want to think more about your comment "things always stay the same in East Lansing." Zip back to 1995 for a moment and compare UM and MSU basketball. Have things "gotten better in Ann Arbor" yet "stayed the same in East Lansing"? I know, I know. UM fans are entitled to a strong football program, so it just has to be that things are getting better in AA. That almost has to be true, eventually. But Bill Martin and Mary Sue seemed to hire the one coach in the country that could possibly bring down UM football for a decade. I, for one, am really enjoying the uncertainty in AA.

Blue Marker

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:18 p.m.

Good luck to you Justin. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you at Michigan.

PalmettoWolverine

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 3:15 p.m.

Can we just put an end to the RR experiment and go after Jim Harbaugh already?

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:55 p.m.

Kubrick... Actually, most Spartans base their bragging on the dominance we have in basketball. MSU has owned UM for over ten years, owns the recruiting, etc. The football the last two years, is icing on the cake. Yes... we do enjoy seeing the seething that Wolverine fans do. And the worst part, the likes of Tater can only keep repeating the same old rhetoric... Misdeamenor State or Little Brother... because there has been nothing for UM to brag about in the two major sports. And the weekly reports about things such as player dismissals, the upcoming NCAA interview, academically ineligible players, etc... isn't making it any easier on UM fans. So again, I will openly state... I want UM to do well, except when playing State. It actually helps State in the end because the Big 10 brand is better. If both MSU and UM were competitive at the same time, it makes bragging rights that much more meaningful. I actually complained to my brother-in-law (UM alum) last year, that beating UM wasn't real rewarding, because basically the entire Big 10 did. So... RR maybe a great coach (saying that just to ease the tensions... I think he's a good coach, not great), but I don't think he's a great fit.

InsideTheHall

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:48 p.m.

And those who stay will be champions.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:44 p.m.

Yelmonian... RR would have to be considered one of the worst coaches in UM history... Can't debate that. But... His story at Michigan may just beginning. To be continued... But none of that changes the fact that MSU struggled to beat two of the worst teams in Michigan history. I only say that because most MSU fans hang the last two victories around their neck as if it were a true "changing of the guard." Expect reality to return this year.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:36 p.m.

Kubrick... Least you forget... Dantonio was hired one year before RR. MSU had a 3-9 season before Dantonio... and hadn't been to a bowl game in 5 years. Dantonio's first year, MSU played UM tight and blew it. Hence... the infamous Little Brother line. So... MSU is building up from nothing... whereas UM is rebuilding after going to 30 some straight bowl games, a national championship in the past ten years, etc. To say that you almost had them with the worst team in UM history is malarky. You have the worst coach you have had in the last 30 some years. That's the difference. And I dare anyone to argue that point with me.

al hunter

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:34 p.m.

He will have to pay his own way if he goes to any big ten school.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:22 p.m.

3 and Out... Did I say something that isn't true? Because of that nonsense RR has been fighting an up hill battle from the beginning. No excuses. Just facts.

Val

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:18 p.m.

I wasn't happy with the RR hire but I backed him the entire way and still do but I seriously question his ability to assess players (on and off the field). Maybe it is normal to have this many kids have academic issues or transfer but I don't really remember this going on before RR. Even though I hate Boren for going to OSU I see a real issues when talented players like him, Mallet, Mcguff, and others decided to leave the program. I'm just ready for the season to start so I can read about something else. :)

3 And Out

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:12 p.m.

ohh...Blame the Freep: check

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:09 p.m.

Bob... All this nonsense, and yes everything that has happened to RR off-field since he's come to Ann Arbor is nothing but nonsense. And it can all be traced back to that one little pre-season interview a certain rag "newspaper" had with a naive freshman... RR has been trying to dig himself out of that hole since.

Sparky79

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2:07 p.m.

KeepingItReal: Yes, most players tend to put on weigh between year #1 and year #2. Heck, just look at the kids on the offensive line. However, there's also a difference between putting on "good weight" and "bad weight." If Turner put on 11 pounds of muscle, that's one thing. If he put on 11 pounds of pizza dough, that's another. Which it is, I don't know. Give it time and I'm sure the facts will come out.

michboy40

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 2 p.m.

This is a big loss, no doubt about it. This kid was supposed to be really good, but he obviously has issues. Those issues may be personal and they will follow him where ever he go's, but they may also be problems with the coaching staff. I guess it depends on where he lands and how he does when he gets there. If he goes to an Ohio State and becomes the stud that people think he can be, then it will be a HUGE dent in RR's credibility!

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:56 p.m.

Yelmonian... Least you forget that MSU struggled to defeat two of the worst teams in Michigan history. Victories for you... But deep down you tremble at the thought of what might soon be for the Maize and Blue - A fine-tuned machine once the smoke clears, and stability reigns. Go ahead, laugh it off, I expect nothing less. But remember... Things will only get better in Ann Arbor... while things always stay the same in East Lansing.

Bob

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:55 p.m.

Kubrick - "stay the course"? As a Michigan alum and fan, I'm hoping for a veer in the course in the direction of no violations and recruiting talented players with outstanding characters and academic skills. Just sayin'...

win

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:50 p.m.

Bo, Lloyd, and Moeller also lost kids but they won games so it doesn't matter. There is always going to be attrition when you are dealing with 100 kids. If Michigan goes 9-3 this year no one will even remember the ones who left, just those who stayed. And we know what happens to those who stay........ IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT WINNING!!

KeepingItReal

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:50 p.m.

According to Donovan Warren..."he has some of the longest arms I've seem for a defensive back. Up in man coverage, he can jam a receiver for three years out. That's just God given." He came in weighing 11 pounds more than what he was suppose to. I can't believe it! Isn't it normal for a young many ot gain weight between his fist and second year in college? Michigan needs defensive backs with some size. You can't expect an undersized defensive back to defend against 6'3''-and taller receivers or 215 pounds running backs. My problem with RR ( and I'm really pulling for him this year)is that he doesn't seem to comprehend reality and is continuously forcing a square peg into a round hole. I don't know all the particulars but this young mans resume seem to indicate that he is a talent. He'll end up at Ohio State and eventually in the pros. Watch.

3 And Out

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:47 p.m.

What do the Rich Rod supporters do now? Blame the kid and say he wasnt in shape and wasnt buying in to Barwis and the conditioning program? check. Cite Bo's sign "Those who Stay will be Champions"? check. Blame Lloyd Carr? (coming soon probably). Bottom line is a house divided can not stand. A house in shambles is even messier. Go Blue. sigh.

Sparky79

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:45 p.m.

Turner filled a position of need, except that he wasn't tabbed to be the starter this year at that position of need. Which brings me to the next point... if he couldn't beat out J.T. Floyd at cornerback...yes, that J.T. Floyd who, in his limited playing time, looked slow and got burned royally...then either he was one of the out of shape players RichRod referenced, has a serious lack of motivation, or some combination (won't include academics because I don't know enough on that side). He was the highest rated kid coming out of Ohio in that class, I believe, and it's a shame to see a talented kid like that not fully utilize his abilities, especially when the depth chart at Michigan at CB is as bare as it gets. So we'll have to hope the reports that Floyd is greatly improved are true and that one or two freshmen can step in or else it's going to be a long year at the side of the field opposite Troy Woolfolk.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:43 p.m.

Kubrick... Hey, I'm a Spartan. If that works for you, have at it. I can tell you, Spartan Nation wants RR at UM for a long time. The only reason I bring up issues, and I've stated it before... UM, when good, really improves the Big 10 brand. I don't live in Michigan anymore, so I actually want UM to do well when not playing MSU... for Big 10 bragging rights. My responses are typically based on attacks towards previous UM coaches. Under previous coaches, everyone knew UM would be a tough game, and that improved the Big 10 brand. That's my stance. I am trying to tone down my statements though. I have irked PortageLk too many times.

Bob

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:43 p.m.

Yelmonian, Good point; character is something coaches should effectively assess. I don't follow the non-season activities as closely as many on this blog - does anyone have any stats on attrition rates over the last 10 (or more) years? I remember instances of players leaving under coaches all the way back to Bump, but I don't know, other than Bo's first year (when several left), if the current attrition pattern is abnormal.

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:35 p.m.

Yelmonian... Everyone is too obsessed with throwing stones, placing blame... When what really matters is fixing the problem. And the only way to do that is through time and stability at the Head Coaching position. Like or dislike the present situation, the quickest road back from here is to stay the course.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:33 p.m.

Bob, I agree with you that the athlete is responsible to stay in shape. But there seems to be a trend in the recruiting of athletes that have trouble meeting criteria. I believe two players are not acedemically eligible this year... along with Turner that didn't work hard enough in the off season, and it appears he was delayed (according to this article) in practice due to processing by NCAA clearing house. I would guess that was due to grades or transcripts... because what else are they going to look at? As Tater likes to point out, the coach is supposed to be looking at those items as well as just the physical/football attributes. That part I believe you can blame on the coach.

naturally

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:30 p.m.

Why would someone decide to transfer just a few days after practice began? Why wouldn't you transfer at the end of spring?

Bob

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:29 p.m.

It's always a loss when you lose someone with so much potential. I don't see how this is RR's fault, unless RR is supposed to hold the hand of every player all summer and make sure they stay in shape (although that's gotta be a violation of some sort). No, the student-athlete is the problem here, not the coaches.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:23 p.m.

So here's my take on the last three years recruiting... 2010 Attrition: - 3 Star LB Kinnard - 4 Star safety D. Dorsey - 3 Star Ath/QB Cornelius Jones 2009 Attrition: - 4 Star CB J. Turner - 2 Star DB A. Witty (Note - 5 Star Campbell in doghouse (lazy), and what happens to 4 Star Forcier if he doesn't get to start... rumors may transfer) 2008 Attrition: - 4 Star LB Marcus Witherspoon - 4 Star DB B. Cissoko - 4 Star LB Taylor Hill - 3 Star Ath Justin Feagin - 4 Star RB Sam McGuffie - 4 Star OL Dan McNeill - 3 Star OL K. Wermers And lack of depth is Lloyd's fault still?

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:13 p.m.

OK... now I have to ask. How is this not a big loss? The entire point of redshirting a kid is so that he get's time in for more training, get's to learn the system, and that way he maximizes his potential size, strength, and skill by being a year older and wiser (a full five years). The kid was a 5 star coming out of HS. And... this is a partially wasted scholarship. Granted, they get to use the scholarship next year... but it means that you start over in the training and education of a kid. That's a two year hit, for a kid that they were hoping could have signifcant time this year. I know... I'm foolish, and don't understand the intricacies of football... blah, blah, blah. But how is this not a hit to the secondary for the next two years?

Macabre Sunset

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:13 p.m.

It is a loss, because he was a highly-touted recruit and filled a position of great need, took up a scholarship. A big part of he-who-cannot-be-named's job during recruiting is assessing the character of players and understanding who can fit in here. So, yes, another great big FAIL for the lame-duck coach from West Virginia.

81wolverine

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 1:10 p.m.

This is too bad. Although, it sounds from some of the information out there that Turner has a motivation problem of some sort. If he came in 11 pounds overweight at his position of cornerback, something is wrong upstairs. He's probably one of the people RR directed his comments at during his press conference. Oh well, some people aren't cut out for Michigan - whether they can't take the competition, or the academics, or they can't adjust socially, who knows. We've lost 5-star guys in the past and it will continue to happen in the future. Not all of them pan out by any stretch of the imagination. You always hate to see someone with a lot of physical abilities like Turner not achieve their potential. Let's hope the change of scenery will help him (as long as it's not OSU or MSU).

trigg7

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 12:54 p.m.

yup

Kubrick66

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 12:54 p.m.

Good luck to him. Hopefully he finds what he's looking for. I will now sit back and brace myself for all the silly, irrational responses this article will surely incite.

Yelmonian

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 12:45 p.m.

Let's see... he's a redshirt freshman... so he would have been an RR recruit. How do we blame the lack of talent on Lloyd for this non-Michgigan man that couldn't handle the hard workouts that RR had to implement to get to 3 and 5 win seasons? Tater, Tater, Tater?

HailToASquared

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 12:44 p.m.

hmm i wonder what kinda comments this article will get. this should be fun.

saginaw

Wed, Aug 11, 2010 : 12:35 p.m.

Did they say five star recruit?