Fab Five alumni Jalen Rose, Jimmy King react to Ohio State vacating 2010 wins
Jalen Rose and Jimmy King know a thing or two about vacating wins.
So what do the former Michigan basketball stars and Fab Five members think about the trouble brewing at rival Ohio State, where the Buckeyes’ football program has self-imposed sanctions that include vacating wins from their 2010 season and the 2011 Sugar Bowl?
“I hate to see programs go down like that, but when you don’t play by the rules, you got to pay the consequences,” said King, who was in Ann Arbor Monday for a golf outing at Barton Hills Country Club that benefited Rose’s new charter school.
Fab Five member Jimmy King, shown at Monday's Jalen Rose Leadership Academy golf outing in Ann Arbor, on vacating wins: “You work your whole life since you were a little kid, growing up dreaming to be a part of that thing, and then to have it snatched from you. It rips your heart out.”
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
“Even though it’s Ohio State, I don’t relish it or anything like that. I always think that athletes need to … just play the game, play it fair and square, do everything you can to have a level playing field and learn how to lose. There’s lessons in losing."
Ohio State coach Jim Tressel has resigned and quarterback Terrelle Pryor has left the program after allegations surfaced that several players accepted illegal gifts and payments, and Tressel tried to cover up the infractions.
Rose and King played at Michigan in the early 1990s, but after a six-year investigation 32 of their wins were among the 113 wiped off the books between 1992 and 1999 after a scandal that included cash payments from booster Ed Martin to several players.
The banners from the Fab Five's appearances in the 1992 and 1993 NCAA championship games were among four removed from Crisler Arena.
What’s it like to lose wins?
“It sucks, because you put your blood, sweat and tears into (the program), and it’s your life,” King said. “You work your whole life since you were a little kid, growing up dreaming to be a part of that thing, and then to have it snatched from you. It rips your heart out.”
Rose has a little more philosophical take on the matter.
While he acknowledges Ohio State broke the rules, he falls short of calling for sanctions because of his disagreement with the NCAA’s preclusion of gifts for athletes in the first place.
"That’s a joke,” Rose said. “There’s just so much hypocrisy that goes on with that entire movement between the NCAA and what they consider student-athletes, and the exploitation that comes with it.”
MORE GOLF OUTING COVERAGE
Rose, who has said he took small cash payments while he played at Michigan, has been a vocal proponent of augmenting student-athletes’ scholarships with other forms of aid.
He thinks Ohio State should not be punished. Others do not agree.
“I’m sure the NCAA is going to come down and give them what they deserve,” said former Michigan linebacker Larry Foote, also in Ann Arbor for Rose’s golf outing.
What do they deserve?
“Ten-year ban, take all the victories away, lose 100 scholarships,” he quipped.
And the bowl money?
“Give that back and donate it to the rest of the Big Ten teams,” he said.
Clearly, no love is lost between Foote and the Buckeyes.
The former Detroit Lions linebacker and current Pittsburgh Steeler feigned tears when asked about the state of Ohio State.
“I see we stole one of their five-star recruits the other day,” Foote said, referring to Kyle Kalis, a Cleveland-area lineman who committed to Michigan on Sunday after initially choosing Ohio State.
“I couldn’t sleep well.”
Kyle Meinke covers Michigan football for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at 734-623-2588, by email at kylemeinke@annarbor.com and followed on Twitter @kmeinke.s
Comments
JimB
Thu, Jul 14, 2011 : 1:53 a.m.
I don't have a problem with universities "making" huge dollars off of their sports programs. That's the way it goes. One could make the case that those $ fund better education oportunites, other sports programs that generate less revenue etc. But the tough situation that occurs is that the students are put in a no- win situation if they don't have families who can give them money to use while at school. Traditional students who have no money at school are able to find a job. Scholarship athletes are prohibited from this. Some of the athletes I knew at college came from really poor families. Their scholarship was their way out of a tough life for a few years but they had no money to eat, buy clothes etc. Some were very greatfull for the chance at an education but they suffered through the year and lived off of other students who wanted to be around them because of their status as an athlete. Why shouldn't they revieve a few bucks, leagally, from the NCAA to be able to function.
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 12:55 p.m.
How many of the football players paid for their 4 (or sometimes 5) years of tuition???? Their given room, board, tuition as well as a monthly stipend. So, they want to be paid? Let's pay them and make them pay for their education. Otherwise, they need to quit whining.
Jim Vitek
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 1:57 a.m.
Gotta love Larry Foote's passion for U of M.
psaume23
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 1:41 a.m.
Jalen: Athletes should be given stipends though not salaries. The players are already getting "paid". Michigan's athletes are members of a major college sports program and their athletic talents are displayed on one of the biggest stages in the nation, which in some cases acts as a springboard to a lucrative pro career. Players receive tuition and room and board at one of the best universities in the world, and have the college experience as BMOC. What about the value of being a Michigan Wolverine, a member of the team, and being proud by giving something to your school through your athletics? Mostly, we should emphasize the importance of student-athletes having integrity, and of following the rules because they are the rules.
treetowncartel
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 9:05 p.m.
It should be noted ,that a vacated win does not result in a victory for the opposing team of that respective win that was vacated.
ferdcom
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
The schools do not make tons of money because of the players. It's because of the University. If two minor league football (or basketball) teams ( say the Ann Arbor Aardvarks and the Columbus Cougars) played a game there would be no TV revenue and less than 5,000 people would show up. It's the University of Michigan name that draws the attention.
braggslaw
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 6:13 p.m.
Jalen? Why did you say you got paid at Michigan? Sheesh
Moonmaiden
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 1:01 p.m.
Uh, because he did?
heartbreakM
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 5:48 p.m.
I see we are back to the argument of whether players deserve pay above scholarship, room and board. I just don't see it. Do you hear employees of GM complaining that GM is making tons of money on their nuts and bolts riveting (or designing)? Do you hear builders of IBM hardware (now Lenovo) complain how that company (those companies) are making billions while the workers get "meager" salaries doing the hard work? What about the local grocery store, where the people stocking the shelves make just a few bucks an hour while the store makes thousands and thousands of dollars? Does education mean anything? Or opportunity? (Opportunity for professional sports development or educational development if the player has any smarts.) If these players really feel exploited, I suggest that they go play in division III where there are no scholarships and they can play and pay their tuition the same as anybody else. Or get loans. Of course, they won't get televised, they won't get access to high level competition, weight rooms, health care, scouts, networks, newspapers, etc, but hey, they won't be exploited. In fact, I want to know, who is exploiting who--the universities who has the infrastructure for these players or the players who knowingly choose to go to high profile places for their own gain?
tater
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 5:25 p.m.
There could be another big recruit joining Kalis; I don't think Ohio's trail of tears is "Dunn" quite yet.
Rob Kirkbride
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.
Asking these guys what they think is like asking OJ relationship questions.
treetowncartel
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 4:44 p.m.
Yeah, that degree you could get from a university while on scholarship no value at all, none what so ever. Not to mention, the opportunity to showcase your skillset in some of the programs for the pro scouts who will eventually assist you in getting a paycheck after college. Hmm, isn't that what college is about, preparing you to go out in to the workforce? Why don't we look at how the volleyball players, on scholarship, are taking advantage of the opportunity placed at their feet? One other thing, look to Coach Hoke for an example as to how one should reply when asked questions about the scandal. There but for the grace of....oh wait, that did happen.
robotmonster
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.
Sure the NCAA is a bunch of hypocrites who make billions of dollars off the backs of college students who they'll penalize, along with their respective institution with sanctions for taking a pittance. Yet, the University of Michigan has no problem touting themselves as an elite academic school, but has no problem compromising their standards to field a winning football or basketball program, just like a majority of Division 1 schools across the country, including the brunt of many casual UM fans- Moo U. That's why I respect the University of Chicago- they founded the Big Ten- and upon uncovering the deal with the devil jock sniffing entails, they gracefully bowed out of the conference.
JS
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 3:11 p.m.
Yea, can someone please explain to me how these institutions are allowed to reap huuuuge financial gains that are directly related to the performance of specific players, and yet these same players end up driving (for example) a rusty Pontiac Sunfire and eating ramen for dinner 5 nights a week? I understand that they are college students, but they are making vast amounts of money for these institutions.... I just don't see how it is fair in any way for a person or an institution to make money from the actions and work of another with no compensation given to the one doing the work.
JS
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 7:46 p.m.
In exchange for millions of dollars made through their efforts and hard work? Still not fairly compensated if you ask me. Although I do see your point, and it is valid. All I know as a full time student, is that to do much of anything over and above maintain high grades and study is very hard to do, and if I saw others making tons of money off of my hard work over and above my studies, I would expect further compensation. All in all, it's a debacle that will not end any time soon.
MjC
Wed, Jul 13, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.
Free tuition, room, and board (that's about $100,000 over four years); free access to well equipped work out facilties; free training and guidance from professional coaches; free uniforms and equipment; free tutoring services; a college degree (if you work for it) from a top-notch university; free career guidance counseling; lots of media exposure; and thousands of adoring fans. Sounds like a deal to me.
Bogie
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 11:56 a.m.
Way to go Jalen. You hit the nail right on the head. It is a defective system. With a system, that does not give student athletes any compensation, or penalties (I.E Pryor just went on his way), there will always be problems.
Darth Pablo
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 : 6:15 a.m.
Comments from the original group that took money from sponser's aboot the next generation that took money from sponser's. I thought annarbor.com was putting down the hammer on journalistic reputation. Well played annarbor.com, well played