Ex-Wolverines football coach Rich Rodriguez says coming to Michigan 'wasn't the best move'
Rich Rodriguez
Former Michigan football coach Rich Rodriguez is working as an analyst for CBS Sports, and he sat down for a question-and-answer session before the NFL draft.
Among his points: He misses talking to players and he believes too much is made of college players trying to adjust from a spread offense to the NFL and his move from West Virginia to Michigan may have been a mistake.
"I think it's irrelevant whether they came from spread system or pro-style," Rodriguez said on the issue of spread vs. pro-style. "I mean Sam Bradford was the first pick in the draft; he played in a spread system and he did pretty well. Colt McCoy played, Tim Tebow also played as a rookie, and they all came from spread systems."
Rodriguez also spoke about his move from West Virginia to Michigan, which resulted in his firing in January, three seasons after he took over the Wolverines' program.
"We did have a good thing going at West Virginia, and we really enjoyed it," he said. "As you look back at it, wasn't the best move. Easy to say now."
Comments
Betty
Tue, Apr 26, 2011 : 2:20 a.m.
I think A WHOLE LOT of people think RR coming to UM "wasn't the best move" -LOL
truebluefan
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 6:03 p.m.
"Yes, we've heard that from the MCC before. The MCC's definition of the "right track": *6-18 in the Big Ten *0-12 against Big Ten teams with winning records ..." Again, the point of my post was Michigan being regionally successful by making the upper Midwest the recruiting focus. And again, I couldn't care less about what the HMLC thinks about RR as a coach, fit at Michigan, his records, etc. The SEC schools get most of the highest rated kids because that's where most of the talent is located. Do you think the SEC is paying off the NCAA to avoid investigations to this rampant "cheating"? The current regime is choosing to make the upper Midwest the recruiting focus again instead of cherry picking the top kids from the region and maintaining southern pipelines. I think this is a bad idea if our end goal is to be in the discussion for national championships once every three or four years instead of once a decade (or longer).
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 5:44 p.m.
"As far as I'm concerned Michigan was on the right track with RR" Yes, we've heard that from the MCC before. The MCC's definition of the "right track": *6-18 in the Big Ten *0-12 against Big Ten teams with winning records *1-13 against MSU/OSU/PSU/Iowa/Wisky *2-11 against teams that were in the Top 25 at the time the game was played *Three straight seasons not in the Top 25 (had not happened since 1965, 66, and 67) *Winless against teams that finished the season in the Top 25. *From 24th in the nation in defense in 2007 (Carr's last year), to 67th in 2008, to 84th in 2009, to 110/120 teams in 2010 *A mediocre offense against quality teams--EMU scored more points against OSU in 2010 than we did. *Worst bowl loss in Michigan history *1st NCAA probation in Michigan history An interesting direction of "right track" that. Perfect example of MCC logic. Yes, the SEC gets more talent because it CHEATS to get that talent--between greased handshakes and massive over-signing. Good Night and Good Luck
truebluefan
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
"Suffice it to say that the vast majority of national champions between 1970 and 2010 also were guilty of major NCAA violations during the same time period, and that EVERY NC from the SEC was guilty of major NCAA violations." Please stop with the petty rationalizations as to why the B1G is inferior to the SEC. When are some people going to wake from their dreams of unicorns and rainbows and realize that the SEC is better because most of the HS football talent resides in that part of the country? Say whatever you want about RR and his coaching abilities, frankly I couldn't care less at this point and it's not the point of this post. As far as I'm concerned Michigan was on the right track with RR as far as recruiting. Cherry pick from your region but create and maintain pipelines to the talent rich states in the south and southwest. Take this to the bank: if Hoke makes the upper Midwest his recruiting focus, we will likely be regionally competitive again but RARELY nationally competitive. Of course, there are some folks around here that are perfectly content with this strategy right now, as long as we run what is perceived to be a clean program. Key words: right now. Give it five or six years and people will no longer be content with only being regionally competitive. Think back four years and tell me how I'm wrong.
discgolfgeek
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 12:11 p.m.
braggslaw is right, he was simply not a good fit and his chances of succeeding were limited because of that. The reason for the poor output in the red zone was obvious, he couldn't find a field goal kicker who could make kicks in the game. These guys looked great in practice on Wednesday but couldn't get it done in front of 110k people. Brady Hoke is a far better fit, at least everyone is pulling in the same direction, that has got to help. Recruiting is also going far better, Mattison will get us some 4 & possibly 5 star guys on the D side. Now if we can only level the playing field with the SEC -- the most fertile recruiting grounds are in their backyard and they all bend if not outright break the rules. Some of the SEC teams over-sign by up to 10 guys a class and these aren't just 2 or 3 star recruits they are pulling off the market.
truebluefan
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 5:23 a.m.
There are 95+ comments in this thread and most of them from the HMLC. I thought the HMLC wanted to eradicate RR from their memories and wipe him clean from Michigan football? RR made a few non-inflammatory, truthful comments to the media and the HMLC throws a tantrum like a 7-year old school kid. Get a grip, guys.
riverraisin
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.
Bad decisions seems to be a common theme of RR's legacy. Hey! I've got it! When he writes his autobiography, he can title it..... "Mistake...My career coaching football"
Jaxon5
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.
DonAZ, nice job with the 2010 offensive stats. UM was not a top 5 offense in 2010. #25 in scoring is pretty far away from it.
Jim Nazium
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.
This is all I hear ...... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JuVHCJVYf4" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JuVHCJVYf4</a> Let it go already....
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:28 p.m.
For Rich Rodriguez to say that, looking back, the move to Michigan "may have been a mistake" is hardly newsworthy. What I would have found newsworthy is a discussion by Rodriguez what he would do differently had he the opportunity to go back and do it again. In the cited article and elsewhere there seems posited a false choice between "Pro Style" and "Spread." That's really a distraction. Both have their pros and both have their cons. Rather than a comment from Rodriguez saying his move was, in highsight, a mistake ... I'd rather see: o A discussion about the challenges northern-tier schools face in running a spread ... is it the ability to attract top talent away from the SEC and other southern-tier schools? Or are there elements of the weather in the Big 10 that might affect elements of the spread offense more than, say, further south? o A discussion in hindsight of how a transition from one style and talent to another can be effected less disruptively. o A discussion of what Rodriguez saw in Big 10 opponents that he did not see in Big East opponents. I'm not looking to necessarily open that debate here. I'm merely saying that comments upon those topics by Rodriguez might have made for a more interesting and newsworthy story.
braggslaw
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 11:53 a.m.
he was simply a bad fit... square peg, round hole.. time to move on
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
Agree ... turn towards this fall.
cutty240
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 10:12 a.m.
To azwolverine, Talk trash when you beat somebody,Michigan State 11-2 and got their DOORS BLASTED OFF in the Bowl Game.In fact THE WHOLE GREAT BIG TEN,got its teeth handed to them in this years Bowl Season. Even Pretty Boy Kirk of Ohio State Fame and Fortune SAID IT WAS THE DARKEST DAY IN THE HISTORY OF BIG TEN FOOTBALL.You might be able to get a All Star Team From The Big Ten to beat somebody. Ohio State was the only team to win,because of a OLD MICHIGAN PLAYER FOR ARK. CHOKED IN THE FINAL MINUTE OF THE GAME..THE MOST OVERATED CONFERENCE IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL,PERIOD.No Sarcasm,Just Facts My Friend.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
"You might be able to get a All Star Team From The Big Ten to beat somebody. Ohio State was the only team to win,because of a OLD MICHIGAN PLAYER FOR ARK." ROFL. The sole victory of a B10 team over the cheaters from the SEC was due to . . . . wait for it . . . a kid who had been on Michigan's team hence it was the B10's "fault" that an SEC team lost that football game. Of course, he is, according to one NFL Scout, " In terms of pure passing ability, Mallett deserves to be at the top of this year's quarterback class". Source: <a href="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632241" rel='nofollow'>http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632241</a> Yeah, must have been his fault, and hence the Big Ten's fault, that Arkansas lost to OSU. Certainly neither the coaches nor the other 21 Arkansas players on the field had anything to do with it. And, of course, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that OSU did. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.
I long ago posted the stats on teams that won NCs over the last 30 years that also found themselves guilty of major NCAA violations, and I have long since lost that data. I'll not spend (or waste) the time trying to put it back together. Suffice it to say that the vast majority of national champions between 1970 and 2010 also were guilty of major NCAA violations during the same time period, and that EVERY NC from the SEC was guilty of major NCAA violations. Indeed, EVERY SEC team except (as I recall) Vanderbilt had major NCAA violations in their FB programs. And then there is the "oversigning" issue. The fact of the matter is that Big Ten programs, though far from perfect (witness OSU) appear not to skirt, stretch, or break the rules the way SEC teams do. So Michigan and other B10 teams (- OSU) are not playing on a level playing field. It has nothing to do with the spread v. a pro-style offense. It has to do with illegal recruiting. Good Night and Good Luck
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:15 p.m.
The record from the past bowl season does tell a dark story, that's for sure. Other conferences -- the SEC in particular -- currently enjoys the attention of the top talent in the country. Whether other "incentives" to play are part of the equation I don't know for certain and I won't say. On the other hand, the answer is not necessarily a different offensive scheme. Elements of it, perhaps; its entirety, no.
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:24 a.m.
Lorain doesn't attack people with her comments. She simply defends Rich Rod. Which prompts others to attack her and her opinions directly. Why is this allowed by the moderators? More importantly, why weren't you all disciplined more harshly as children? Seems to me you might be more respectful to others' opinions if you were.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 11:07 p.m.
mission and blu: Hypocrisy is another hallmark of the MCC. Good Night and Good Luck
missionbrazil
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:07 p.m.
"You just critized our parents and our childhoods. " Another good example of what I was talking about.
Blu n Tpa
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:56 p.m.
"...why weren't you all disciplined more harshly as children?" I, for one, was beaten nearly every day. Thanks mom and dad. Oh, 'moderators' help, help protect 'Lorain'! Who hasn't been respectful? You just critized our parents and our childhoods. I have an idea. Why don't we just close down the web site to everybody who doesn't agree with the MCC? Let's make Dusty and Loraine censors and the world will only revolve around them. Amen! TiM Go Blue!
missionbrazil
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 2:13 p.m.
When someone's "opinion" is full of false stats and info. (such as the "top 5 offense" that DonAZ spoke of) and also full of mis-statements and conspiracy theories, then their "opinions" are fair game to be questioned and disagreed with. I agree also that someone's character should not be attacked; however, Lorraine and you and others have made statements calling others "haters" for example ... that is an offensive statement to some, and it can be taken as an attack on someone's character. So can "2nd graders" and other such comments. Why is it that when someone disagrees with you or Lorraine they are "hating" or "being immature" , but when you disagree with others you are simply stating your opinion ? Sounds like some of you are way too sensitive, and you also have double standards ... for you it is simply expressing your opinion or your disagreement with someone else's opinion, but when someone who has a different opinion than you does it, you label it "hating" or some other derogatory word.
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.
Questioning the character of Lorain directly is not appropriate. That I agree with. Questioning her opinions is another matter. Those are open to discussion because this is ... well ... a discussion forum.
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:21 a.m.
I find it interesting that the first few posts bash Rich Rod, and as soon as somebody posts something other than hatred towards him, several of the more rude people who frequent this site attack that person like a bunch of spoiled brats. Seriously, where has the maturity gone?
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:09 p.m.
There is a difference between blind affection and objective admiration. There is objective, demonstrable evidence that Rodriguez's tenure did not measure up to historic Michigan standards. The record and the statistics support this conclusion. When someone attempts to claim more to his tenure than actually was, then a retort is in order. For example, that Michigan had a "top five" offense. Simply not true, as my prior post based on objective facts demonstrated.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 12:28 p.m.
If the MCC doesn't want the WCiMFH bashed, they need to quit pining for his loss, at least on these pages. Perhaps the MCC ought go to blogspot.com and start there own blog where they slander Coach Carr and drool over the WCiMFH all they want. And there no one will bother bother to insist that actual FACTS inform the conversation. Good Night and Good Luck
towny
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 11:54 p.m.
You still took the big money though right Richy.
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:37 p.m.
Johnny that was the one game and they lost! Edward where did I state the last coach was not responsible. I was speaking about the last 13 years as whole. Not once have I let the last coach off the hook for his failure! Please sir, don't twist my words. I know what it is I say!
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:48 p.m.
You wrote: "Michigan not sniffing a national title 10 of the last 13 years had nothing to do with the last coach." Emphasize: HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST COACH
cutty240
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.
Rich told the truth about his move.Lorain Steelmen told very true words also.I have talked to people at Ann-Arbor.com and the Detroit Free Press all along.I have told them this for several years.Michigan is not what you people think it is.Like some people in this piece, say. it has not been very good for 10 years.Thats Why alot of Coaches turn down this job down.Things change, Michigan is not the State it used to be,look at the Auto Business.People are moving out of Michigan as fast as they can.Housing Market one of THE WORSEST IN THE COUNTRY.It can be Great again,but your boy Horse Head Hoke is NOT THE MAN.Good Luck and Happy Easter to Everyone.Peace Out from Cutty/240
azwolverine
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 3:25 a.m.
Then I guess the ex-coach simply had no chance. No one can win at hapless 'ol Michigan. Poor Brady Hoke...there's no hope to resurrect this dead program in this dead state. Right you are, Cutty. Right you are. What kind of fools are we fans to think Michigan should be any good when it's obvious even our housing market is one of the 'worsest' in the country. I guess that helps explain MSU's hapless 11-2 program as well since they are from the same state. By the way, sarcasm intended.
missionbrazil
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 9:06 p.m.
Chilltime "Uprooted his family, left his University and his standing in the community for what he believed was a better job and situation." With all due respect, the man spit in the face of WVU when he left, and then tried to back out of paying his buyout by lying ... he ruined his "standing" in that community all by himself and burned the bridges when he left.
missionbrazil
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:04 p.m.
Chilltime, it's Easter ... just trying to be nice.
towny
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 11:56 p.m.
That's OK the money he made here will help soften the blow.
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 9:20 p.m.
Mission Why you hit the all due respect line?
distancemaster
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:37 p.m.
I'm shocked, shocked that Rich did not also mention how the 24th ranked 2007 defense that he inherited was turned into #110 under his excellent management skills.
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:31 p.m.
Looking back it was the wrong move for him. Uprooted his family, left his University and his standing in the community for what he believed was a better job and situation.
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.
Dusty is right ... at the time it made sense. The mechanics of the separation were troublesome, but the strategy was sound.
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:25 a.m.
But in all fairness, at the time, who in their right mind would turn down Michigan?
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:09 p.m.
In hindsight it was a bad decision to take the Michigan job. I do not see any issue with stating that when ask to answer the question.
DonAZ
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 7:11 p.m.
"Taking a subpar offense, and turning it into a top 5 offense in three years just wasn't enouhg to cut it here." From: <a href="http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/national/index.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/national/index.html</a> Michigan was ... Scoring Offense: #25 Rushing Offense: #13 Passing Offense: #36 Total Offense: #8 "Total Offense" is based on total yards. #8 looks respectable, right? With all those yards you'd think Michigan would have scored a lot of points. But nope ... #25 in the country in scoring. Why? There's a saying in business: "Activity without results is wasted energy." They couldn't convert those yards into scores. Turnovers and failed conversions: Turnover Margin: #109 -- Michigan gave up 10 more turnovers then they gained back. 3rd Down Conversions: #30 -- In my opinion one of the key stats. Auburn #3. Red Zone Conversions: #92 -- When in the red zone they weren't very good at scoring.
missionbrazil
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:03 p.m.
"I'm trying to think of a combination statistic that would be a good measure of efficiency leading to victories." DonAZ, I like the bottom line stat of the won/loss record ... nothing like the good ole W's and L's as the ultimate stat and measure of one's efficiency and success. The bottom line W-L record is what dictates that our last coach was the HC for the worst 3 year period in our long history. The W-L record at UM also demonstrates that his predecessor LC was vastly better than RR. It's hard to argue against the W-L record (although some try to).
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:46 p.m.
No single stat captures a team's effectiveness other than the win column, of course. There's a lot of high-scoring teams that don't do that well overall -- Hawaii comes to mind. I'm trying to think of a combination statistic that would be a good measure of efficiency leading to victories. Yards/play suggests first downs, which is essential. But you'd have to then factor in 3rd down conversions because making the first when needed is key. And of course, turnovers need to be factored in. And finally, scoring when you're in striking distance. Just musing ...
DonAZ
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:37 p.m.
Good point about red zone, Dusty. Michigan FG kicking hurt them badly. On the other hand, I wonder how many touchdowns Michigan scored "going for it" because the FG kicking was so bad? Red zone success is a tricky thing. Some teams score a bunch but from outside the red zone. So their "red zone" stats might not reflect this. I thought maybe the stat for raw attempts at red zone scores might give a hint -- that is, grind-it-out teams would have a lot of attemps; lightning score teams less. Sure enough, Wisconsin has a lot of attemps (and success). But Oregon also had a lot of attempts (tied with Wisconsin) but did less well at converting.
missionbrazil
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 9:13 p.m.
Good point johnnya2 ... to some an exciting offense that gains lots of yards seems to be all that matters. Last year's UMass game was probably a huge success for them.
johnnya2
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:16 p.m.
You forget these people wanted an exciting offense, They really didn't care if they won or scored, they just want excitement. They would be angry over a 9-7 UM win and be happier with a 50-48 loss.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:01 p.m.
Don't confuse the MCC with actual FACTS, Don. Good Night and Good Luck
heartbreakM
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 6:31 p.m.
Most interesting things about this non-story to me: Former coach used to always say (paraphrase) 'what's past is past, i don't deal with the past', but here he is answering these questions about it. I can't believe it is even a news story. OF COURSE, he should not have left WVU. Every Michigan person (except Theo and Lorraine and possibly Tater) knows that.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
"But, to the contrary, he's still quite relevant...obviously." To the sycophantic MCC, yes. And to CBS, as they hired him for "color". But, since Matt Millen got a similar job at ABC, we all know what it takes to be the "color" person on TV. "I think the HMLC's issue is they hoped RR would be ruined by the MIchigan job" Yes, it was my dream to invest more than $2000 in season tickets per year for the each of the last three years to watch the worst Michigan football teams in history. [Note for the tone-deaf MCC: the last was written with extreme sarcasm]. Good Night and Good Luck
truebluefan
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:26 p.m.
The media asked him questions and he answered them. Big deal, HMLC, let it go. But by now I guess I'm used to the HMLC's over-the-top knee jerk reactions to anything RR says. You know you can expect whopper doozies out of Murrow, D-21, missionbrazil, meangoblue, Blu n Tpa and the 3andout brigade of screen names. I think the HMLC's issue is they hoped RR would be ruined by the MIchigan job and therefore would never hear from him again. But, to the contrary, he's still quite relevant...obviously.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Tue, Apr 26, 2011 : 4:18 p.m.
"The only people that thought RR had done something egregious were Rosenberg/Snyder and the HMLC." The NCAA and the U of M, which admitted to MAJOR violations, notwithstanding. Another example of MCC love of fiction. Good Night and Good Luck
truebluefan
Tue, Apr 26, 2011 : 12:04 a.m.
I think Rich was an upstanding guy who should've been granted a clean slate but instead was tossed into a media and alumni hornet's nest upon arrival. Probation? The only people that thought RR had done something egregious were Rosenberg/Snyder and the HMLC. I liked where our offense was headed, though it was still a work in progress. I like an offense that leads the B10 despite the fact that we had no standout RB. I liked the fact that we had a true X's and O's coach running the offense. Whether it was Tate or Denard, our offense was fun to watch for a change. I wanted Michigan to shell out the money to get a proven and respected DC like Manny Diaz that could run the defense and recruit defense. I didn't want a new head coach.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 12:26 p.m.
Why such a big man crush for a man who is responsible for the worst three years in Michigan football history and who caused the program to have its first NCAA probation ever? And, BTW, this question answers yours. ". . . he already did 100X more for Michigan football" Well, I agree he did more TO the Michigan FB program than we have ever done. Why does the MCC LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE him so much? Good Night and Good Luck
truebluefan
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 5:09 a.m.
Why so much hate for a man that devoted 3 years of his life busting his rump for Michigan? By the way, he already did 100X more for Michigan football than you and your HMLC counterparts have done in your lifetimes. And that's probably the understatement of the century.
Blu n Tpa
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:35 p.m.
I can not believe you tainted these fine individuals with my inclusion. What did they ever do to you, tbf? I had hoped nearly everybody had moved on. And it was the WCiMFH bringing ruin to Michigan football, than the other way around. Why is it the MCC never, NEVER, EVER, wants to discuss the facts. I have offered to debate the pros and cons of the last 3 years with Dusty and/or you recently only to be brushed aside. Or are you like your idol? Pops up like the Easter bunny, stirs up the children, and leaves without ever talking about what is real. TiM Go Blue!
missionbrazil
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:19 p.m.
Lorraine "Taking a subpar offense, and turning it into a top 5 offense in three years just wasn't enouhg to cut it here." First off, our offense was not a top 5 offense, unless you are referring to top 5 in the Big Ten. We were in a virtual tie for 4th in scoring offense in the BT (#22 in the nation in scoring O) ... Get your facts straight if you are going to try to paint a picture of something in your comments. Secondly, obviously a 15-22 record and especially a 6-18 BT record, plus NCAA violations, was NOT enough to cut it here ... get over it already. I agree with tulsatom ... this type of article serves no good purpose here and it only opens up old (man crush) wounds, and it brings back alot of bad memories for others ... aa.com should avoid this type of article.
Macabre Sunset
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:07 p.m.
That our former coach. Never met an excuse he didn't like.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Apr 25, 2011 : 1:37 p.m.
MS mis-wrote. He meant: That's our former coach's supporters. Never an excuse they didn't like. Good Night and Good Luck
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:18 a.m.
Where, exactly, is there an excuse being made in the article above?
umgoblue47
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:49 p.m.
i like coach hoke when he was an assistent coach at michigan and i like him has head coach and think he will do just fine. but if he does screw-up he will get a free pass because he is a michigan man. this is something rr would never have gotten here no matter what is record would have been at michigan. . . i wish him the best of luck. . . GO BLUE. . .
tulsatom
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:14 p.m.
Articles like this serve no purpose except to open up old wounds. The press should be dealing with the present and discussing what it takes to rebuild the program back to prominence instead of rehashing the recent painful past, in my opinion. .
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:17 a.m.
Made it a point? You mean more than likely answered a direct question?
lumberg48108
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:43 p.m.
true - but RR made it a point to say it - so it will get reported on he needs to move on - obviously he has not - and obviously he still thinks he should not have been fired and obviously he is delusional
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.
"But this much we know, it's been a long, long 10 years since UM was a force." I see Lorraine is back to writing her fiction again. I won't waste the time correcting every piece of fiction in her post. I mean, "culture of entitlement"? Really? Proof? Never mind. I know she has none. I will, however, correct her math: 2011 - 2006 = 5 years. You do remember undefeated #2 UM v. undefeated #1 OSU, don't you Lorraine? Yes, the intervening 4 years have been unpleasant, mostly due to the incompetence of the WCiMFH. But you can keep on being the chief fiction author for the MCC if that's what rolls your socks up and down. Good Night and Good Luck
johnnya2
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:46 p.m.
I guess I am not sure what the term "sniffing" a national title means then. I suppose Wisconsin and OSU did not "sniff" a national title last year. Alabama did not either. Being ranked top 10 in half of the last 10 seasons AT THE END is impressive for any coach or team. How many times did RR sniff anything anywhere? That record would compare to ANY toop coach. In fact in his three years at Alabama Nick Saban has only sniffed it 33% of the time.
elduderino
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.
A simple statement of fact gets turned into accusations of "entitlement", MCC, etc., indicates many people have poor reading comprehension. That's ok. Please carry on with your dead horse kicking and immature bloviations.
Blu n Tpa
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 12:56 p.m.
MCC So Michigan "sniffed" the NC strata 30 percent of the time during the last decade of Coach Lloyd Carr. I think that's pretty damn good. Please name ALL the other football programs that you consider more successful during the same time peroid. But they have to stay with the same coach. And there can't be any NCAA violations, and they must go to a bowl game every year, and they have to have a winning season every year during that period of time.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 11:39 p.m.
Don't confuse the MCC with facts, Brazil. They can't handle it. Good Night and Good Luck
missionbrazil
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 11:27 p.m.
Chilltime, in 5 of LC's last 10 years we won 10 or 11 games. And in those last 10 years we ended up rated in the Top 10 4 times, and also # 11 and #12, and also in the Top 20 in 3 other seasons. That is plenty relevant. In the last 3 years we became a joke, nowhere close to the Top 25.
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:48 p.m.
Johnny that was the one game and they lost! Edward I was speaking about all 13 years! Not once have I let the last coach off the hook for his failure. Please sir, not try to change the subject and deflect from the fact that Michigan is Michigan in name only and has been for 13 years and counting. College football is no longer regional and Michigan isn't even the big dog on there porch anymore and have not been for a long time
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:46 p.m.
Using your "stat" chilltime. 13-10 = 3. Good Night and Good Luck
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:42 p.m.
What three was Michigan competitive for a National Title? I must have been deployed those years and missed it.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:24 p.m.
"Michigan not sniffing a national title 10 of the last 13 years had nothing to do with the last coach." Well, golly gee. I thought that the WCiMFH was coach for three years, so he'd have something to say about those seasons. No, WAIT!!! I forgot!!!! According to the MCC, the WCiMFH isn't responsible for ANYTHING that happened in his tenure. But, for the rest of us, being competitive for the NC in 3 of ten seasons (discounting the 3 for the WCiMFH) isn't bad. For fans with a sense of entitlement that one must compete for the NC EVERY year--they led us to the WCiMFH. Good Night and Good Luck
johnnya2
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:23 p.m.
So I suppose the No1 versus No 2 in the country game versus OSU was insignificant. The 1998 Rose Bowl was just another game. The victory over Florida was nothing. The victories over OSU were the same as the wins Rich Rod had over Bowling Green. Oh, and done with class and dignity without excuses. If that is insignificant, please let's go back to insignificant. I prefer it to being a laughing stock
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:17 p.m.
Michigan not sniffing a national title 10 of the last 13 years had nothing to do with the last coach.
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:12 p.m.
No just a fan yearning for the program to be relevant again!
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 9:42 p.m.
"One game in 13 years that was of any significance" Exhibit B of the fans' sense of entitlement. Our comeuppance: The WCiMFH Good Night and Good Luck
Chilltime
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
One game in 13 years that was of any significance
johnnya2
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 8:12 p.m.
@elduderino, OSU did get beat by Florida that year, BUT the following year a team led by Coach Carr defeated the same Gator team. Florida fans are very fickle, yet I never heard them screaming for firing Urban Meyers head like the Theoo and Lorraines of Ann Arbor went after Lloyd. Oh by the way, Lloyd NEVER missed a bowl game, NEVER put the team on probation, and NEVER broke his contract. Things RR can not say. I guess the "culture of entitlement" means doing things specific wway, I will happily live in that. Coach Belein has been given slack because he is a good human being. Rich Rod is a whiner.
missionbrazil
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:31 p.m.
Come on Ghost, to be fair our 2010 team under whatshisname was ranked as high as #17 ... then we lost to MSU by 17, then by 10 to Iowa, then by 20 to Wiscy, then by 30 to OSU, and then by 38 to Miss. St. ... uh, never mind :)
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.
Yes, Michigan fell to 8th and OSU to 3rd. <a href="http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/2006_archive_computer_rankings.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/2006_archive_computer_rankings.html</a> Pretty awful, that. Lorraine is half-correct, however. There is a sense of entitlement in the Michigan football program--among its fans--and your post is Exhibit A. And that sense of entitlement led directly to hiring the WCiMFH. It's called karma. It's also called comeuppance. Good Night and Good Luck
elduderino
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:21 p.m.
I also remember how UM and OSU were both destroyed in their bowl games. So much for their obviously inflated ratings that year.
Lorain Steelmen
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.
Rodriguez assumed, incorrectly, that he would be given a fair shot, at successfully doing the job. He failed to comprehend that Ann Arbor is actually a 'closed town', and if you aren't on the 'approved list', you will be villified, and eventually wacked. The big money boys, pretty much run this show. Taking the 'culture of entitlement'. created by Lloyd Carr, and getting kids to perform, is not easy. Taking a subpar offense, and turning it into a top 5 offense in three years just wasn't enouhg to cut it here. But then, it took Carr from 2001 to 2007 to run the program into the ground. I knew when RR came in, that the 'defense', not his offense, would either make him or break him. But even I was surprized, by the degree of negativity in this community, and the abject hatred, for someone from West Virginia. So far, Hoke has not imporved the defense, and has shown that the offense will NOT be as good next year. I wonder if he will get wacked in three years as well? Only time will tell. And of course, whether the big money boys want to keep him around. But this much we know, it's been a long, long 10 years since UM was a force. I miss the Bo/Mo days, and early LC years through 2000. Hoke has his hands full....
Matt Dent
Tue, Apr 26, 2011 : 12:47 p.m.
Good points Lorain! RR did not get a fair shake here, needed at least one more year. His style is so different than what UM had been accustomed to so of course it was going to take him a good amount of time to change things. I certainly enjoyed the exciting offense and watching Shoelace break records! I wonder if some fans forget that Carr's job was being called for the last several years he was here. All that being said, I do like Hoke and it seems that he will do well. It's just unfortunate our sports society in general is so short on patience.
mun
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 11:50 p.m.
"I knew when RR came in, that the 'defense', not his offense, would either make him or break him." Last I checked, defense wins games.
mun
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 11:48 p.m.
"It took Carr from 2001 to 2007 to run the program into the ground." Wrong. Taking a team that had 40 consecutive winning seasons to a 3-9 record in his first year is running it into the ground.
1st Down
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 8:16 p.m.
So you clear your cookies in your browser and then vote again for yourself lorraine? lol pathetic
XTR
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.
All RR needed to do to shut people and doubters up was to win and win big like what Bo and Lloyd did. That is all. If RR won a national championship shared or solo in the third season, I'm sure RR will not be fired. But it was RR himself who gave ammo to all of his doubters. He proved to them that they were right. lol!
Blu n Tpa
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 12:39 p.m.
Dusty, getting to bowl games is a sign of success, isn't it" How may years did the WCiMFH take a team to a bowl game in three years? Maybe going to the Alamo Bowl doesn't ring the bell for you, but how did NOT going to a bowl feel? And you don't want to be considered a card carrying, board member of the MCC? I think you're a "life member". TiM Go Blue!
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:32 a.m.
Lumberg, you use bowl appearances as proof that Michigan was "a force"? We played in the Gator Bowl this year. Would you call that team " force"? Come on, man. Michigan hasn't been Michigan much in a long time.
heartbreakM
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 10:08 p.m.
Fair shot? Huh? He coached Michigan to 3-9 and lost to Toledo all by himself in his first year. That record is essentially unprecedented in Michigan football (worst by far in 4 decades; more losses than any prior coach ever). It's obvious that it was a bad fit. It's obvious that he left his home to look for greener pastures and felt that he had to destroy that which he did not know to make things his way, rather than adapt and improve on what was here. It's obvious he has no love from anybody back in WV. It's obvious that he threw his players under the bus and never publicly admitted that he may be at fault for doing a poor job.
Macabre Sunset
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 5:06 p.m.
I'm sure this paragraph will be in Rodriguez's autobiography, but it has little to do with reality, Lorain.
lumberg48108
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.
@Lorain Steelmen Who wrote this, his wife? U-M was a traditional top 25 team and year and out had a top program -- not the best - a top program. RR took a team that had been to bowls for 30 plus years and made them a joke ... they were in the Rose Bowl two years prior to RR Yes, Lloyd's time had past but the idea that RR came into a broken program that needed to be rebuilt to so far beyond revisionist history is laughable Not a a force in 10 years? 1998 Rose Bowl 1999 Citrus Bowl 2000 Orange Bowl 2001 Citrus Bowl 2002 Citrus Bowl 2003 Outback Bowl 2004 Rose Bowl 2005 Rose Bowl 2005 Alamo Bowl 2007 Rose Bowl 2008 Capital One Bowl RR took this program and turned it into a national joke ... which can happen with coaching changes and the wrong fit - but for you or anyone else to objectivley state that he was set up to fail is utter nonsense The media, alumns or fans did not run his weak defence or finese offense - RR did ... the media, alumns or fans did not run off players - he did. The media, alumns or fans did not encourage top players to transfer - he did.... the media, alumns or fans did not insult tradition, he did. the media, alumns or fans did not bring on NCAA sanctions/violations - he did ...and finally, when things got bad - he blamed everyone else ... Get a clue -
D21
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 4:16 p.m.
Lorianne, Excellent comedic writing on your part. Keep it up and you will only be 80 notches below Theo212.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.
"We did have a good thing going at West Virginia, and we really enjoyed it," he said. "As you look back at it, wasn't the best move. Easy to say now." Which is why he had been shopping his services for more than a year before Bill Martin (WADiMH) bought a bum steer? The WCiMFH is such a rocket scientist. Good Night and Good Luck
EyeHeartA2
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
Let it go. You'll live longer....
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 12:33 p.m.
I wrote: "Which is why he had been shopping his services for more than a year before Bill Martin (WADiMH) bought a bum steer." You wrote: "Rich Rod actually turned down Alabama just a year before he took the job at Michigan." So are we splitting hairs over "more"? If so, do ya think that the WCiMFH's infatuation with Alabama lasted only 24 hours or so? The MCC is at it again--nothing their king does is at all questionable. Good Night and Good Luck
Dusty
Sun, Apr 24, 2011 : 7:15 a.m.
You just made this up. Rich Rod actually turned down Alabama just a year before he took the job at Michigan. Nice try, though.
D21
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 2:44 p.m.
Psst RR, Not all went wrong at A2 for you as you forgot all about your famous poet/scribe and pseudo super agent, the great and incomparable Theo212, who singlehandedly turned your one year coaching career at A2 into 3 years. Hail to Theo212.
D21
Sat, Apr 23, 2011 : 2:37 p.m.
D-uh! RR, have a nice Easter elsewhere outside of A2. Hoke Is It!