Jaxon5

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 1:48 p.m.

Fans are growing very tired of "systems" in basketball and football. How about "wins"? Anyone heard of that?

rocco

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 12:57 p.m.

Prophetfella s analysis is right on target. But lets step back for a moment. Arent we supposed to be the leaders and best. Isnt that notion contrary to the ultra conservative position of recruiting only compliant, two and three start athletes who feel they are luck to be here? Cant we find a qualified coach with a national reputation who can manage highly talented individuals? Izzo seems to be able to do so while maintaining a high degree of integrity in his program. Beilein seem to use words like system and right kind of player to cover-up his inability to recruit and manage highly talented athletes. Many Harris did not improve under Beilein. With another coach who had the ability to understand and work with talented athletes, Manny would be in the pros today, just as Udoh. Beilein is a highly skilled coach who is more likely to find success in a less competitive league not on a national stage where the best players and best coaches have to learn to work together.

MetricSU

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 11:40 a.m.

As an MSU fan, I hope most UM basketball fans are satisfied with having a coach who is a "good guy" and wants to keep away high school players with large egos. That will keep MSU on top in the state for a long time. Oh, and I agree that Beilein seems to be a good guy. He also seems to be a good X's and O's coach. But that is of limited value in a conference like the Big Ten without top notch recruits. UM will never overtake at least half of the other schools with the mentality that it can be competitive with mid-level recruits.

Jaxon5

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 10:24 a.m.

This program is in complete disarray. A shambles.

KeepingItReal

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 8:57 a.m.

ChelseaBob: It will be a long time before UM BB makes it to a tourney other than one of those pre-season holiday tournaments. However, its good to know that you have a lot of faith in Beilein because potential blue chip recruits don't which is what its going to take to make that program competitive again.

ChelseaBob

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 6:37 a.m.

Bballcoach-Amen to that. What we have in Beilein is a quality human being. He has and will run a clean program and demands hard work from everyone. Some of these high school stars have huge egos and poor work ethic. They don't belong here. I'm proud of what Coach B is doing here, and still believe he'll get to the tourney next season purely on hard work and team work. The slackers are gone. Those who are left will bring him big ten coach of the year honors.

bballcoachfballfan

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 1:28 p.m.

I am guessing that ProphetFella is referring to me when he talks about Beilein apologists. There seems to be a claim that I am "making stuff up". I am not. Everything I posted is either from personal knowledge or experience as a basketball coach. No coach is perfect and Coach Beilein has made his missteps just like anyone would. But I am going to have to call ProphetFella to task a little bit on some of the comments. First, let's look at the list of TOMMY AMAKER recruits that have been broomed by Beilein: 1)Reed Baker: transferred to Florida Gulf Coast University. They finished 8-21, 5-15 in their league and did not qualify for the Atlantic Sun post season tournament. Reed can shoot it but he would have had a hard time being a star on one of my better high school teams. 2) Kendrick Price: transferred to......actually, nowhere. Played 5 games last season for the Vermont Frost Heaves in the Premier Basketball League and scored a total of 7 points--has since been cut. When Beilein first took over, he had a series of drills the kids had to accomplish to be allowed to practice. He didn't do it and instead of working during the first few practices (which I was at), he sat on his butt. After 3 or 4 days of this, Beilein concluded, properly, that this kid did not have the work ethic to succeed. 3) K'Len Morris: transferred to Division II Grand Valley State. Averaged a whopping 3.5 points per game this season--and was not a starter (at the D-II level!!). 4) Jerret Smith: transferred to Division II Grand Valley State. Is no longer on the team. Last year averaged a powerful 5.4 points per game as a NON-starter (on a D-II team!!). I watched Jerret during the first couple weeks of Beilein's first year. He displayed a disinterest in competing and a lazy work ethic. This in addition to the fact that he absolutely couldn't guard anybody. 5) Ekpe Udoh: transferred to Baylor, drafted in the lottery. This was the one that got away but again, I witnessed first hand that Ekpe did not work hard that first season. Beilein was constantly trying to get him to go. Despite that, he continually worked with him on his fundamental skills and he left a better player than he was when the year began. During his parting meeting with Ekpe, Beilein told him that no matter where he went, he would have to change his practice habits and if he did, he would play in the NBA. He did. 6) Kelvin Grady: Again, I will speak from my own eyes watching practice, Kelvin had a very difficult time understanding how to play in the halfcourt. He had point guard skills but no point guard mentality. He also did not guard the ball the way a guy with his quickness should have and he absolutely wouldn't take a charge (he finally took one in the NCAA tournament). Members of Kelvin's family also created some havoc around the program. The only reason Kelvin is playing football is no D-I schools outside the MAC were interested in him for basketball. 7) Manny Harris: I won't argue that they were a marriage made in heaven but Manny is a far better player today than he was before Beilein improved his shooting and ballhandling which were both shaky coming in. Manny wants to play professionally and always has. Most talented players that want to play professionally are gone by the end of their sophomore year--let along junior. 8) Laval Lucas-Perry: Laval was a great practice player at times. I often came away from practice thinking he was the second most impressive guy next to Manny. But it rarely translated to games. He got the deer in headlights, couldn't execute the offense, didn't shoot like he was capable and was unable to play the point position. He would have provided nice depth this year but he was not going to start ahead of Darius or Stu and would have been pushed for bench minutes by Hardaway, Vogrich, and maybe even Akunne (who was academically ineligible, by the way, because he took an ungodly load at the direction of his U-M professor father). I will conclude this by saying this--it is not just my opinion that Coach Beilein is a terrific fundamental and x and 0 coach. He has the respect of his peers. A couple years ago they voted him the number 1 x and 0 guy in the country. Now that does not make him a great recruiter--and I am not saying he is. But to say he doesn't win with lesser talent is preposterous. He was one shot away from the Final Four with Mike Ganzy and Kevin Pittsnoggle! Again I will say from experience, most people don't understand what really goes on in basketball recruting. Aside from a few schools, the recruits everyone wants are paid, period. Coach Beilein won't play in that world so he has to do it differently. Will U-M be back to the Fab 5 or Glen Rice days under Beilein--no. We won't have those players. But he will win here. Within a couple of years, U-M will be a perennial NCAA tournament team with the occassional shot at a Final Four. That is as much as you can expect right now. The practice facility and changes to Crisler, with a couple of NCAA appearances could change it for the better.

naturally

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 7:15 a.m.

In addition to the player defections, let's not forget that 3 assistant coaches have left since the season ended. I don't believe in Beilein. JB should be happy that UM Hoops is second class and no one pays any attention to it. If RichRod had lost the same percentage of coaches and players in a single offseason then EVERYONE would be talking about it.

KeepingItReal

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:42 p.m.

Peter Rudy: I couldn't agree with you more. Beilein is ruining whatever chances he has of recruiting Michigan and probably nationally as well. Everyone keeps claiming that Beilein has a "system" but I've yet to see what it is. M will not get a blue chip player under Beilein that can help to turn the program around. Plus, there's something going on between Beilein, his designated captain where it appears that some players are having difficulty with. There's a reason Harris took a chance on entering the draft this year as oppose to returning for his senior year. Better check it out.

ProphetFella

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:17 p.m.

Wake Up! At Michigan in 3 years Reed Baker, Kendrick Price, KLen Morris, Jerrett Smith, Ekpe Udoh, Kelvin Grady, Manny Harris and now Laval Lucas-Perry all left or where booted. Prior to Michigan 5/17 of Beilein's WVa recruits did the same. These are all previously thought of as good kids. None of them due to things like academically ineligigle, crimes, etc., rather vague "standards". "It's Beilein Stupid!" It's annoying as heck to hear the Beilein apologist concoct things about Beilein that just aren't true and have no basis in fact either at Michigan or at WVA or at any of the other schools. Things like Beilein's a great fundamentals coach (see shooting percent, shot selection, etc.) that Beilein's had a long history of success with 2/3 star players )Beilein's success has come with other coach's recruits and talent) that Beilein's ultra ethical (just campare academically eligible Smith booted and academically ineligible Akunne retained)that Beilein's offense is top notch (the Magic Bus is a faux gimmick, as ANY offensive schme works when you hit your 3s, but Beilein's doesnt work when you don't) that the LLP situation must have been ongoing or Beilein wouldn't have thrown him off (see news ink w/ Beilein praising LLP and recall J. Smith & families shock at his boot). Most annoying is these are the same guys who out of one side of their mouth say it's unfair to take a stance against Beilein without knowing the facts, then make up bunch of Beilein apolegetic hooey that has n basis in fact! The actually facts just do not look good for Beilein! At some point, all these formerly great kids can't all be suddenly bad apples, and Beilein some great ethical coach showing courage by booting or running them off! That's just balogny for some very weak minded apologist folks who simply refuse to see the obvious!!

D21

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 5:45 p.m.

Michigan needs to stress education and discipline over sports first and I can only hope that JB is consistent in that regard. LLP, hope you will graduate and learn from that lesson as long as it is justified. It is good that LLP will maintain that scholarship since he has only one more semester to go. Am not that crazy about JB myself but it seems to me that JB is more honest than say Frieder and Fisher.

naturally

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 2:26 p.m.

Something is wrong with the basketball program. There have been way too many departures this offseason to not investigate what's going on under Beilein -- something's fishy. If LLP's violations were so egregious, why would he be given the option to keep his scholarship?

bballcoachfballfan

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 1:12 p.m.

With the departure of Manny and DeShawn, Coach Beilein is done with players that don't fit his expectations. It is silly for MSU fans to compare their recruiting with Michigan's at this point. Michigan is not there yet. But, Coach Beilein has a long history of success with 2 and 3 star type guys that fit his system. As someone who has coached basketball for over 20 years, I can tell you that his offense is as good as any in the game right now--but you need the right personel to make it go and Manny did as much to screw it up as he did to help it. Epke had a bad work ethic when he was here and Beilein wouldn't put up with it. Lots of folks on here are making comments as if they are fact and in fact, they are unsubstantiated opinion. We have been off the map folks. We can't compete yet in the recruiting wars. We hired a man who could win with less and do it with impeccable integrity. I know Coach well enough to know that this LLP thing was not done just because he wanted to free up a scholarship. Something happened--and it happened repeatedly. Otherwise, he would not throw the kid under the bus. You will have a program here with good kids who go to class and put the team first. That may mean that we don't get all the recruits the fans would like to see. However, this is post-Ed Martin, current practice-gate Michigan. We must do it the right way. Anyone who knows the true nuances of the college recruiting game understands that outside of a handful of schools (of which MSU has become one), big-time recruits are mostly bought and paid for. U-M can't play that game and that is exactly why John Beilein is here.

uawisok

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 10:39 a.m.

Zulu stated,"There seems to be one of two issues involved in this mess. One, substance abuse or LLP's inability to get along with Beilein or Beilein current player who he has designated as the leader of his team. It seems that both have some personal issues they need to work through. This is sending a bad message to potential recruits in Michigan and elsewhere." I beleive the opposite to be true...This sends a great message that if you don't observe written standards then there will be consequences. Something most of these kids have yet to learn, but too bad that is the way society functions. Education first, BB second...the gift of a U-M education will serve them their entire life...where as BB is a flash in the pan!!

treetowncartel

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.

Two words, Epke udoh. This offensive scheme does not bring out the best in the players. The only plus about being a Michigan fan at this point is that you can sell your Sunday tickets for the Big Ten Championship game for a high dollar to a fan from one of the other Big Ten+ schools.

Truthisfree

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:22 a.m.

Everyone is making the assumption that LLP did something "wrong". Since he graduates in December, this could all be clearing up an athletic scholarship. Beilein has already been on the record saying that LLP wouldn't return on scholarship for his 5th year of eligibility unless he had a breakout season. Guess what, the season will just be getting started when LLP has the credits to walk across the stage and graduate. Doesn't sound like a dumb kid so all of this may just be smoke. School is not in session, there aren't organized team activities in the offseason, LLP was present and working the camps this past weekend........what could he have possibly done in the offseason that was so vile to get the boot? Did he not run his miles as is required? Next week you will hear that UM received a commitment from some kid that is tall and can shoot the 3. I do think this sends a negative signal to recruits and if LLP's younger brother was considering UM, I'm sure that is over and this could have a negative impact on recruiting the Flint area as LLP is a kid from Flint Powers a dominant catholic school, haven't seen him in trouble with the law nor have we heard of him using drugs. He graduates in December so he took his education serious. His sister was a 4 year player at MSU. Big questions around this

annarbortownie

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 8:31 a.m.

I have to agree with Sam. Why, if he violated rules over and over does he get to keep the scholarship? There are many hard working, rule abiding kids in and out of the athletic program that are struggling to stay in school with work study and loans. This is just wrong.

KeepingItReal

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 8:26 a.m.

Sam: Athletics is a way forward for many kids and there is probably a legit reason the U allowed LLP to keep his scholarship. It's probably not all of his fault that he is leaving. UM BB program is done. There is no way it can compete with the middle to upper tier teams of the B10. Everyone assumes that when a player leaves a program that its the kids fault but there is a reason why so many players have left under Beilein's reign. The word is spreading among HS recruits and their about it.

Sam

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:47 a.m.

why does he get to keep his scholarship? That is worth over $100,000! How about moving it to a student for academic achievement...why continue to send these signals to kids who think athletics is way forward.

JadedBlackDepth

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:42 a.m.

And on top of all said above, JB does not coach for next level players, just look at his record...how many players that he recruited and coached are not in NBA? Recruits need to see that too when they join.

JadedBlackDepth

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:40 a.m.

Really? JB recruit the state of Michigan? Keep dreaming. Jon Horford waited until the last second to see if there is an opening on the MSU roster all the while JB and the rest of the folks in AA were bent over backward kissing is arse and he still wouldn't give them the time of day until he finally got a call saying there is no opening at MSU. The state of Michigan belongs to MSU. The recruiting days of Harris and Sims are gone. The best players either go to MSU, or leave the state, or only go to um AFTER all other roads are closed like JH. And now, this year, the team in AA is returning without 2/5 of scoring, 1/3 rebounds, 1/3 assists, 1/3 steals, and so on and so forth. And this is for a team that was damn near the bottom last year...and this will inspire recruits?

81wolverine

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:14 a.m.

Very surprising. LLP certainly had a very disappointing season last year where he obviously regressed. So, there must have been something going on. If he needed to go, so be it. But, it just makes things a little tougher for Michigan next year. I still see Michigan's return to the top of the Big Ten is going to take awhile - probably 3 years at least. And that's assuming Beilein starts recruiting some better athletes.

discgolfgeek

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:59 a.m.

Beilein has all his own guys, a tradition for overachieving, and that is what I expect to see this year.

ChelseaBob

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:12 a.m.

Beilein is a good man and a good coach. Whatever happened with LLP, I'm sure he had chances to correct it. This will be a much better team year than anyone expects. This will be a very disciplined basketball team. Manny was great but lacked consistency. Look for better effort all season long. I'm betting on NCAA tourney appearance this year, not based on superstars, but based on team play. And PLEASE. Do not compare Beilein to RR. One has integrity, the other.....

KeepingItReal

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 4:45 a.m.

There seems to be one of two issues involved in this mess. One, substance abuse or LLP's inability to get along with Beilein or Beilein current player who he has designated as the leader of his team. It seems that both have some personal issues they need to work through. This is sending a bad message to potential recruits in Michigan and elsewhere.

Big House

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 4:06 a.m.

It's nice to see the MSU fans here. One could only wonder if they'd still be alive if Izzo had left. GO BLUE

statie12

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 12:52 a.m.

"U of M missed out on McCallum and Zeilger, the only two players that could lead them back to the tournament and challenge Sparty" I'm guessing you're not an MSU grad (or grad from any school) with those ignorant comments. Not only did those two guys shoot Michigan down, but they also rejected my alma mater (MSU). Please shut up now SpartyIsYourDad.

mcflies

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11 p.m.

how bad is the michigan basketball team going to be next year? they have not taken one step forward under beilein. all the talent that left (harris, udoh, sims, etc) was from the pre-beilein era.

Macabre Sunset

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:43 p.m.

Didn't see that one coming. Sorry to read it. Since it likely isn't academic, and he hasn't been on the police blotter, it must be massive insubordination.