Zingerman's Deli outlines proposed $4M to $7M expansion plans
Ann Arbor resident Ray Detter, left, looks on as Quinn Evans Architect intern Sophie Machicoane, center, answers a question for resident Kristi Gilbert during an open house at Zingerman's on Monday.
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
Zingerman’s Delicatessen whipped up a new recipe to expand Monday when it hosted a public meeting to solicit community and neighborhood reaction to a proposed plan that would add a 9,500-square-foot addition to the east of the existing building.
The proposal also calls for demolishing one of two wood frame buildings considered historically significant by the city’s Historic District Commission.
It is the second time in less than two years that Zingerman’s has tried to expand its retail campus across from Kerrytown.Â
The Historic District Commission stopped the iconic deli's first attempt when it ruled in 2008 the owners could demolish a garage near the deli’s Detroit Street location, but two buildings on their parcel - a fire-damaged and boarded up house at 322 E. Kingsley and a bright orange house between the deli and Zingerman’s Next Door called the Annex - couldn't be razed because of their historic importance.
Zingerman’s latest plan calls for razing the East Kingsley house, which is vacant, to make space for the two-story addition. But it would incorporate the Annex into the expansion design.
Project cost are estimated between $4 million and $7 million. The site will be submitted to the Planning Commission by March 29 so it can be considered at the April meeting, said Paul Saginaw, one of the deli’s co-founders.
If Zingerman’s can win site plan and other approval from the Planning Commission and City Council - along with securing financing - it can return to the HDC for consideration, said Jill Thacher, a city planner and historic preservation coordinator.Â
Four criteria will be used by the commission in its ruling, including whether Zingerman’s can show the demolition and expansion project would benefit the community.
That’s the argument Zingerman’s will make, Saginaw said.Â
Zingerman's hopes to raze one house and incorporate the Annex in its expansion plans.
File photo
There is no way to expand without demolishing the East Kingsley house, Saginaw said. And Zingerman’s would prefer to also remove the Annex. Incorporating the Annex into the expansion will cost an additional $750,000, Saginaw said, in part because its foundation must be raised to make it even with the existing building.
Zingerman’s is anxious to expand sooner rather than later, Saginaw said.
Quarters are tight, the kitchen is minuscule, the humidity created from the kitchen is damaging the deli’s brick façade - a historic building itself - and interest rates are low. If plans proceed on schedule, and Zingerman’s wins the blessing of the HDC, construction would begin in early 2011 and be completed by spring 2012.Â
“There is no guarantee that the HDC will approve this,” Saginaw said. “But this is the route we have to go. Unfortunately, it’s a very expensive route. But we need it.”
The expansion would still use the existing deli as the front entrance to Zingerman’s, which would continue as retail space. The deli would flow into a glass atrium that would connect the existing deli with the addition.Â
The kitchen and food prep areas - along with additional seating, bathrooms and offices - would be part of the addition. It would double the deli’s seating capacity, double the kitchen space and triple the number of bathrooms.
The expansion would include green building options such as natural ventilation and daylight, high-efficiency cooking equipment, a green roof on part of the existing building and a harvesting green roof where rainwater would be collected on the addition, said Kenneth A. Clein, principal with Quinn Evans Architects.
Many of the neighbors and community members at the meeting supported the expansion.Â
Carl and Elaine Johns, who own Treasure Mart down the street from Zingerman’s, threw their support behind the expansion. Carl Johns said demolishing the East Kingsley house was not a problem for him.Â
“It’s an eyesore,” he said. “It’s not like you’d lose a beautiful Victorian building. It’s a burned out old building.”
But others expressed concerns. Patrick Thompson, who owns a nearby gallery, said he does not back the plan and would not do so until the city, neighbors and Zingerman's develop a plan to mitigate the loading zone problem. He pointed to 90-foot delivery trucks parking in the streets as a hazard for pedestrians and drivers.
Editor's note: This story has been corrected to accurately portray the position of Patrick Thompson, who does not support the expansion.
Janet Miller is a freelance writer for AnnArbor.com. Reach the news desk at news@annarbor.com or 734-623-2530.
Comments
Patrick Thompson
Thu, Mar 18, 2010 : 5:30 p.m.
Unfortunately, Ms. Miller omitted a major part of the conversation I had with her and from the quote she included in her article. I stated that I had witnessed a person get hit by a car and countless "near misses" as pedestrians attempted to cross at the intersection of Kingsley and Detroit. These frightening conditions occur when two or more delivery trucks (some exceeding 65 feet in length) are parked on BOTH sides of the street, thereby creating a narrow, one lane, tunnel through which cars are expected to pass. All too often, drivers are forced to blindly jet out around these parked trucks, while pedestrians, who are equally blind-sighted, step out into their path. The expansion of this business, WITHOUT concrete plans and commitments to mitigate this problem, will only increase the danger created here. So, "No, I am not in favor of the expansion UNTIL I see the plans and written commitments on paper, from both Zingerman's and the City of Ann Arbor, that will eliminate this problem."
Bizzle
Sat, Mar 13, 2010 : 9:07 p.m.
who cares... their sandwiches don't taste even half as good as what you get at a true manhattan jewish deli... for the same price. I have to substitute potato latkas for the bread or else I get TMD!!!
a2phiggy
Fri, Mar 12, 2010 : 6:28 p.m.
Responding to the comments on "living wage" that Zingerman's provides - it is a joke. I encourage any of you with a family to apply for a job there and see what your take-home pay is after you pay for insurance - their public image as a family-centered employer and private practice are quite incongruent. The only people who can afford to work there are those who don't need benefits for anyone but themselves. I'd much rather see A2 support expansion of businesses that invest in families, the school system and the community as a whole.
falman
Fri, Mar 12, 2010 : 5:34 p.m.
Honestly, how many "Historic Districts" does this city need? Some of the neighborhoods in this town should be demolished because they are eye sores to the community. People need to focus their efforts on that. Also, THANK YOU Zingerman's for staying in town and making this a destination for so many out of town people that contribute to OUR economy in this town. Zingerman's is a premium. If you cannot or choose not to patronize their prices, then don't. But it is not a reason to deny them the ability to attract more people to our town.
TruthInNews
Fri, Mar 12, 2010 : 11:21 a.m.
All of you recently laid-off teachers reading this - please support the Zingerman's expansion. This is the type of industry Ann Arbor needs to increase the city coffers and thus continue to fund our schools. We cannot rely on the state and Zingerman's is A2 based and has a proven track record of adhering to our values.
Maureen Molleron
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 : 1:05 p.m.
I grew up in that neighborhood, and NO ONE until someone from the HCD bought a house, gave a damn about the neighborhood. Those houses were ALWAYS an eye sore. We lived on Kingssley, my best memories were going to the Farmer's Market (now Kerrytown) tobut 3 candies for 1 cent. My sisters and I would sell cool-aid to students (since most of the houses were bought an turned into student housing) with no lawn, no flowers, etc. Unlike the yards of some of my relatives who died and their houses were sold to slum landlords. Zingerman's was a treat! My parents stilled lived on Kingsley at the time, and I moved into the condos kitty corner to Zingermans. As an ICU nurse working at UofM, when they changed the cafeteria to garbage food, we did Zingerman runs! For a 12 hour shiftn you could eat half the sandwich for part of the shift and save the other half for later. When someone heard "Zingerman RUN", we'd get doctor's, etc. wanting to join (took 2 people to carry the food). There are houses in the neighborhood that should be torn down due to safety. As a child I would climb on their roofs (cowboys and Indians) and I am sure thay have as decrepit a roofs as they did then. We often invited students from foreign countries to have Thanksgiving with us (though we were a family of 7 children and 3 adults) and they would complain about the lack of heat, etc. My mother leant her stove to some to cook their pizzas. NO ONE says anything against the SLUM landlords, but Zingerman's which PROVIDES employment to students desperate for work? I'm appalled!
townie
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 : 10:59 a.m.
Welcome to the Glen Beck, tea party era. Sheesh. The HDC is a volunteer citizen group, selected by the Mayor (who's been in office for nearly a decade) and approved by Council. The members are not elected. They are not out to take over the world. They cannot "posture" or "flex their muscles" or "impose their will." The HDC, unlike Council who already illegally "spot-zoned" the parcel in question, must follow the law--Federal, State and City. They have no power that has not been specifically granted to them under the law. The HDC has not even been presented with this current plan yet, so comments suggesting they have taken any position on it are simply wrong. No fear though, folks, if the HDC decides that the law requires them to reject the petition, Zingerman's need only threaten to file a lawsuit and the City will immediately settle and let them do what they want. Too bad the City won't have the spine to even ask that Zingerman's move a couple of those Pittsfield Township operations into the City in trade. FYI: The "orange house" was boarded up and painted orange by Zingerman's to use for storage. How they've treated the house is not relevant to the legal discussion at hand, but let this serve as clear proof that the HDC does not have any say over paint colors. FYI 2: Leopold Brothers closed because their landlord jacked up their rent, not because they were denied the ability to expand. They decided that instead of paying higher rent, or relocating in town, that they would close their brewpub and pursue their new passion for making liquor. If I recall, it was State liquor laws that attracted them to Colorado and had nothing to do with Ann Arbor policies or ordinances.
Lets Get Real
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 : 9:21 a.m.
Give some people a little power and this is what you get - a burned out house, creating a safety hazard and eyesore in a neighborhood being preserved under the guise of historic relevance. The orange house has no architectural significance. It is a plain, simple, clapboard structure representative of working families who lived in that neighborhood, like dozens of others. Dare I say PLENTY of others, that have been converted into student slum housing, that - by the historical commission's account - contribute to the district. But THEY say, Zingerman's well thoughtout plan, on the other hand, would detract? How many more businesses do we have to drive from our midst by detering their growth and expansion (i.e. where is Leopold Brothers - Oh, I remember - successful in Colorado, where laws and business climate is more favorable). How many businesses will we restrict from creating jobs by prohibiting policies that make workforce sustainability impossible (i.e. why has Edward Brothers open plants elsewhere - Oh, I remember - because we can't sustain the workforce here with affordable housing and transportation in relation to industry standard salaries). How many more of Zingerman's family of business entities does Ann Arbor WANT to move to Pittsfield Twp? All of them? or deos their plan include bringing some of them into the new 10,000 square feet of space? Perhaps we would rather have them relocate to Dexter's charming downtown? or the Chelsea's alluring business community? It could be a great compliment to Purple Rose, Common Grill, Teddy Bear Factory and Jiffy Mix attractions. Let's Get Real - Zingerman's has been a contributing, responsible citizen of Ann Arbor. They brought their toys to this sandbox to play. They chose this place for a reason, but they can easily take their toys to a place where the other children don't throw sand in the eyes of their vision and smash the dreams of their play. I think these are a group of persevering entrepreneurs who have heard naysayers before. But, they believe. They have always believed in their vision, the mission, their dreams and their pursuit of the American Dream to work hard, succeed, and realize the rewards of success. Zingerman's has risen to greatness of a small giant who has made a conscious decision to stay small, but do things well; to remain in a single location - Ann Arbor - and be great here. Show some respect in return Ann Arbor. Support this community player who wants to live and grow in our community and continue to expand their business concept, increase revenues, create jobs, pay wages, pay taxes, direct positive attention to our city, attract people to come here to visit, take training, eat in our restaurants, stay in our lodging establishments, buy our goods, use our services, and contribute to our economy. In return, they will stay, grow, donate, support, lead, and continue to contribute to our community in positive ways.
Bill
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 : 9:05 a.m.
I suspect this will be denied as it would bring improvments and change to Ann Arbor. The elected city boards seem to have little interest in anything involving change. The members are stuck in the past with an apparent lack of vision for an Ann Arbor of the future. Keep the old boarded up fire damaged building. That building style is, after all, in keeping with the poorly maintained slums rented to students. Voters in Ann Arbor need to make their voices heard and work to replace officials with visionaries. Let's make Ann Arbor a city that is know for it's progressiveness not the fact that is has become stuck in the past.
Griffen
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 : 1:45 p.m.
I agree with the last few comments, this seems more about posturing by the HDC, then any sort of real historic preservation griping? The huge urban gentrification movement that started back in the 90s in places like Cleveland, Chicago, and New York, transformed and renovated entire neighborhoods that are now much better off than perhaps when they were originally built at the turn of the last century! This is a 'no-brainer' for A2; Paul and Ari deserve a break!
Foodie01
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 : 9:25 a.m.
If the HDC doesn't approve this, it is basically telling Zingerman's to leave the Kerrytown area, and that would be bad for the community.
Terry Reilly
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 : 7:49 a.m.
Let's see...seems like most who comment feel expansion is a good idea. Zingerman's has demonstrated community involvement and responsibility and wants to remain on Detroit Street. My guess is that the HDC will feel the need to throw their weight around and deny the expansion until interest rates creep up and it becomes too costly to expand at that location and Zingermans moves out of the city!
jcj
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11 p.m.
Complaining about the price of their sandwiches is foolish. It has nothing to do with the issue. Did you also complain about Plumb Market? Did you support Aldie's?
L. C. Burgundy
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:52 p.m.
The fact that one of the arguably best and most well known businesses in Ann Arbor has to grovel in front of the Blight Defenders Commission (conveniently hiding itself behind Federal Law, I see) is a sure sign of how dysfunctional AA and the "Historic District" designation is. They must ooh and ahh over whole neighborhoods in Detroit. "Wow, look at how many burned out buildings they have in this *historic district*."
David Paris
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:21 p.m.
"WHY allow Zingermans to tear down a house in a historical district?" LOOK at the ORANGE HOUSE in the picture above, and tell me with a straight face that THAT house is worth preserving! Anyone who wants to preserve a P.O.S. like that should think about moving to Kentucky!
murph
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:19 p.m.
A few commenters (like "townie", a few above this comment), have noted that the HDC process is not nearly as arbitrary as many think it is. The buildings are in a historic district, and the HDC cannot simply wave its magic wand and change that - they are legally required to apply the same standards to Zingerman's as to anybody else in the district. Nor is it a matter of the buildings being magnificent Victorians or not. Some of its advocates might fool you into thinking so, but historic preservation is not about "pretty houses"; even the modest ones are a part of the protected neighborhood pattern. Federal and State law require the HDC to apply certain rules in their decision-making process - they cannot arbitrarily "make a discretionary exception" for Zingerman's. They have to base their decisions in the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Historic Rehabilitation, and demolition in particular requires a finding that one of a very few conditions be met. Working from memory, those conditions include the structure being a hazard to the public or occupants, that retaining the structure is not in the interest of the community, that act-of-God/Nature has created a financial difficulty in maintaining the structure, or that keeping the structure would obstruct a project that would substantially benefit the community, assuming that all other approvals for the project have already been granted. It sounds like it's that last that Zingerman's is pursuing - that their expansion would be enough of a benefit to the community to outweigh the maintenance of the historic (if damaged) structure, but this approach requires (under law) that the HDC demolition approval be essentially the last step in the demolition process - they can't approve demolition speculatively, for a plan that never materializes. It sounds like Zingerman's has done their homework, they've put together a case for community benefit and the necessity of removing that structure, and they're going through the process to make it happen. I will leave it to the HDC to make the finding of whether or not demo is truly required and justified, as is their legal responsibility. Perhaps future AnnArbor.com articles on the topic can provide more detail on the legal context the HDC operates in - many comments here seem to show a misunderstanding of the requirements the HDC has to meet.
CynicA2
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 6:49 p.m.
Tear those moldy old eyesores down - they have no more "historic" value than my toenail clippings.
Dante Marcos
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 5:38 p.m.
I'm glad for townie's perspective. I love Zingerman's sandwiches and coffee, and also enjoy the Roadhouse. At the same time, I'm not naive about the fact that Zingerman's is 1) and foremost about making money, and then 2) about responsibility to its community. One could argue that 2) advances 1). That is cunning business sense.
townie
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 4:48 p.m.
Zingerman's already located the bulk of their newer businesses, creamery, bakery, coffee roasting, mail order, in Pittsfield Township and it wasn't because the big, bad HDC chased them out there. They did it because they wanted to pay lower taxes and cheaper rent, even though it is not a sustainable location and is not served by AATA. It was just a business decision based on the bottom line. So let's not pretend that Zingerman's has any particular loyalty to the City. This is about their deli business that has been very successful in this established location--so successful that it has spawned several other businesses--unfortunately, they chose to locate most of them outside the City. The HDC's decision in this current matter, on the other hand, must follow Federal standards, State laws, and local ordinances. It is not supposed to be a discretionary decision, although some members clearly have their own pro-development agendas (and little knowledge of preservation standards and practice). Folks commenting with such vitrol towards the HDC should remember that these are citizen volunteers and are not highly-paid elected politicians. They are compelled to follow the law, even if the result may not be popular. I hope that Ari and Paul will find a better way to work this out smoothly and for the benefit of all without further vilifying our friends and neighbors who volunteered to serve on the HDC. Have the commercial buildings on the other side of Detroit street (that they already partially occupy) been ruled out and why? The historic neighborhood setting of Zingerman's has contributed to the success of the place. It is a very quaint location that people enjoy visiting. I hope they don't lose that feel, regardless of how this turns out. Brick walls and tile floors say "deli" to me. Not tinted glass atriums.
David Marshall
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 4:37 p.m.
To the folks with a problem with the cost of a gourmet sandwich. Complain to the sandwich makers. The internet doesn't care. This expansion doesn't "set a precedent" for anything except allowing responsible local businesses to expand on THEIR PROPERTY after careful planning, lots of community input, and designing environmentally responsible expansions. OH NOES! This isn't opening any floodgates, it's making one responsible, discretionary exception in a reasonable circumstance after much consideration.
leaguebus
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 4:18 p.m.
Ari and Paul must have put their hair shirts on again last week. I wish them good luck in their dealings with the Historic District power brokers. A promise of more jobs and greener buildings for the Zing site will certainly make too much sense. Maybe the commission can nickel and dime Zingermans into bankruptcy before this is all over. Might as well start rebuilding the burnt out house next door, it is a great example of the downtown Detroit boarded up architecture style. It would be a crime to lose that building. Sorry, but Moravian madness is alive and well on Kingsley and Detroit Streets.
Regular Voter
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:47 p.m.
Is it ironic we are willing to grovel and jump through hoops for the boorish incompetents who run this city. Begging for a Zingerman's expansion no less. Time to send an attitude adjustment to city hall. Mr. Mayor, meet your replacement. Aren't ordinary people getting fed up with this nonsense?
Cheryl W
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 2:34 p.m.
Thanks for the correction on the township! But the bottom line is that Ave Maria University is now located in Naples, FL, along with the associated construction projects, jobs and students. I'm not very familiar with the Zingerman issue, but I certainly hope they don't follow suit.
Cheryl W
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:51 p.m.
Reminds me of Superior Township not working with Ave Maria University, and where is that university located now? Naple, FL if you didn't remember. Where is the accountability now of those who made the decisions to not work with companies and forcing companies that want to be here to leave the area, and where are those jobs and students located now?
Sarcastic1
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:46 p.m.
No wonder the sandwiches cost $14
ToddAustin
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:23 p.m.
I certainly hope this project is helped to move forward. Paul & Ari have gone to commendable lengths to meet the concerns of preservation. The Deli is an asset to the neighborhood where it resides and to our community as a whole. Could you please post up better images of the expansion proposal? It would be nice to see the model up close, as well as the drawings that were shown at the gathering.
Regular Voter
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 12:44 p.m.
The hideous city hall expanded right up to the curb with no legal setback required, much as was Delonis, built at our expense without any of the public process that Zingerman's or any other non public project is subject to. Same with the underground parking garage. Wake up to the fact that our city officials are left wing authoritarian anti-business anti-private citizen hypocrites and get some new faces elected come August.
a2idealist
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 12:21 p.m.
I am all for it. Zingerman's has shown excellent taste and creativity in all of their ventures, and I fully trust them to oversee an expansion that will enrich their neighborhood -- not detract from it. And hooray for a great business expanding!
tdw
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 12:18 p.m.
Ann Arbor must like the look of Ypsis Thompson building.Execpt in Ypsi's case it's the owner not the city dragging their feet
David Briegel
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 12:12 p.m.
Good Grief people, I don't like the price of a BMW or Mercedes either but I am not going to complain about it. These are fine people who run a fine business, treat their employees very well and give back to the community in many ways. Wake up and support them. We would be a much lesser place without them!
citrus
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:43 a.m.
Don't jump to anger about preserving a burned out house just yet. The first time Z's proposed expansion, it included demo of 2 buildings, one of which clearly didn't warrant demo under state and national preservation guidelines, and the second of which was debatable. This time, they have changed their proposal to demo the vacant/burned out house only. It could very well be that this is approved. If it is, HDC has stood by its rules and precedents, the expansion goes through, and everybody is hunky dory. If they had approved it last time, people would have been screaming favoritism. Save the bashing until after the decision is made, at least! It's true that on the surface it seems crazy to save a junky house. The trouble is, to allow demolition of any junky house in the district gives incentive to allow houses to be demolished through neglect. In a historic district, the whole is more than the sum of its parts. The annex is not a construction wonder, but it takes critical mass of "ordinary" old buildings to make a district. Personally, I hope it goes through. But the HDC members are in a hard spot making decisions that have permanent and expensive implications. It might be a good pun, but it's not fair to dismiss them as "hysterical."
Adam Jaskiewicz
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:29 a.m.
Can't they work with the HDC to figure out what it is that *THEY* want the plan to have? Why does the HDC refuse to talk until Zingerman's has a city-approved, financed plan? I would have less issues with this if the process seemed a little more streamlined. As it is now, it seems that Zingerman's has to jump through a lot of hoops just to get their plan considered by the HDC.
My2bits
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:28 a.m.
Big Oops. I meant CAN, not can't.
Randy Dunning
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:28 a.m.
Anyone who thinks that Zingerman's will erect an expansion that will not compliment the architecture of the surrounding community hasn't been paying attention to how they've done business and marketing for the past three decades. This is a company that gets it right most of the time. They're working diligently to go through all the proper channels to get this expansion approved. I am confident that they would also design a facility that not only mirrors the vibe of Kerrytown but enhances it.
My2bits
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:25 a.m.
The Historic District Commission MUST follow the Ordinance in granting approvals or denials. A building in an historic district MIGHT be allowed to be demolished, as permitted by the Ordinance. I don't think any of us commenting here know what the Ordinance says, what criteria are being evaluated, or how the Zingerman's plan meets or doesn't meet those criteria. I support Zingerman's. They are good members of our local community. I also support historic districts which protect us from negative changes to our neighborhoods. Let's hope that Zingerman's can't expand with a plan that works for them and for us in the neighborhood. That is what the process is supposed to do.
Tim R. Land
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.
Janet Miller: The HDC did not decided those two buildings were significant, the National Park Service did. This is a Federal issue and the HDC is charged to interpret the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation to maintain the integrity of the Federally listed district. I would suggest that you change your 'article' to reflect the facts and not opinion.
Laura Zabel Ford
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.
Ann Arbor city council and the Historic District Commission needs to fully support the expansion of Zingermans. Their expansion will bring more money into our community from visitors and increased property taxes. I am all for renovating historic homes but, if the home is beyond repair and will continue to deteriorate, what is the point of keeping the structure?
David K
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:30 a.m.
Neither my wallet nor my waistline allow me to enjoy Zingermans sandwiches more than 2-3 times a year, but it is always as tasty as the very first Zingermans sandwich I had nearly 30 years ago. Much as the winged helmets and Michigan Stadium are synonymous with Ann Arbor, Zingermans has also achieved iconic status nationally. Unless they are vegan, there hasnt been a celebrity newscaster reporting or a Hollywood A-list actor acting in Ann Arbor that hasnt noshed on Zingermans goodies. Hopefully the HDC will understand the importance of Zingermans to Kerrytown, to the community and to the more than 300 Zingermans employees. Although the Old Fourth Ward historic district preceded Zingermans, it was pretty sleepy until Paul and Ari set up shop. Zingerman's happens to be a neighborhood deli that happens to have a family of businesses that generate in excess of $30 million in sales, even exceeding Paul and Ari's wildest expectations. Theyve been on that corner since 1982, the year I moved to Ann Arbor. In my humble opinion, Zingermans has achieved historical status. Where else can you buy a single brownie for $4.00? They are the yardstick of community oriented businesses. Rather than taking the money home and indulging themselves, the founding partners have reinvested in the business and in people and been leaders in the following: Founding Food Gatherers. Employing and training the mentally challenged as well as those who might be rejected elsewhere for body piercings and kinky hairdos. Sharing the financial and business metrics with their employees. Developing strategic partnerships with boutique purveyors and farmers. Promoting the locavore food movement. Providing some affordable housing for their employees. Providing profit sharing and medical benefits, virtually unheard of in the quick service food business. Kerrytown would not be as vital without Zingermans. The deli is a must stop for A2 Visitors and celebrities. Zingermans helps promote Ann Arbor with all the media coverage they get nationally, from the New York Times, ESPN (back when Michigan Football had a national following), Bon Appetit, and other food and travel magazines. No I dont work for Zingermans, but I have watched these two guys grow an immensely successful business through devotion, creativity, hard work, and loyalty.
readerone
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 10:05 a.m.
I think if Zingermans is going to do an expansion at this level they should go elsewhere. This will have a detrimental effect on the neighborhood.
Jon Saalberg
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.
The CHS "close the school" crowd needs to get over that. CHS is not going to be closed.The Historic Commissions's position is simply absurd. The house in question is a burned-out hulk. "Historic value" is a pretty far stretch for this and the orange house, which I've been in many times.To the question about Zingerman's pay, my then future wife and I worked there for 10 years, and saved enough money to support ourselves and eventually buy a house, and take a few modest vacations. So, yes, you can make a decent living and even save for bigger things. I'll reiterate the point about prices versus costs - if you're happy with your $2 hamburgers made by minimum wage labor, by all means continue to enjoy them. If you want sandwiches with the best ingredients available, made by someone who receives decent pay, don't expect to pay $2 for it. Any comparable sandwich will not be any cheaper, and by "comparable", I mean any sandwich that contains similar ingredients.
Smiley
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:34 a.m.
I second Jennifer Shikes Haines' post.
roz
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:16 a.m.
Let's not forget that Zingerman's doesn't need to stay in that location. If they really need space, do you think their customers wouldn't follow them to another city location? What would the impact be on downtown then?
Brian Shensky
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:11 a.m.
"Does the Historic District Commission play favors for certain businesses/people?" Well, they should, especially here and now. No one carped about the "historic" buildings that were razed to create City Hall. Why should a significant community player like Zingermans - a Nationally recognized business that consistently calls attention to our city - not be granted some latitude?
stunhsif
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 9:07 a.m.
Why must government make it so difficult for a company to expand and add jobs. I never go to Zingerman's because I won't pay 14 bucks for a sandwich but there are enough folks that support them and have no issue paying that much. A2 should be kissing Zingerman's behind and getting out of their way to expand.
Kris Palmer
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:59 a.m.
Dear HDC: Let's (for once) consider what a small business has done for this community -- a business that is not part of the University of Michigan. Zingerman's gives back to our community in many ways. Time after time, they have shown a remarkable commitment to this community and beyond. In creating roadblocks to their expansion, you not only discourage them from growing their business and servicing this community, you discourage others who are entrepreneurs. Keep it up and we'll all leave so that you can have the orange-painted building and old garage all to yourselves! We appreciate Zingerman's for all they do to enhance and improve the community we choose to live in. As I said, keep it up and maybe if you're lucky the almighty U of M will buy space in the garage for research purposes, while keeping the "integrity" of the building - LOL!
Jennifer Shikes Haines
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:46 a.m.
Zingerman's does so much for our community and it's at the vanguard of business plans both here and internationally. Anything we can do to support this important local business should be done. It also anchors a great deal of what makes the Kerrytown area such a wonderful and vibrant destination.
futuremi
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:30 a.m.
I really hope this goes through. Just because something is old doesn't mean its historic and needs to be saved. A burned out / boarded up building is viewed as historic? The HDC has held up projects at this site in the past because of buildings in this state, rather than allow a reputable company to expand and beautify the neighborhood. This is reason number 28 why I would not build in AA if I were a company....WAY too many roadblocks put up all the time.
Ruth
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:23 a.m.
I support Zingerman's plans for their property but I also think that allowing them to purchase the Community HS site would be very good for them, the neighborhood and the city.
Dan Lanuti
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:18 a.m.
I support Zingermans' efforts to expand and bristle at the thought the Historical Commission would have such a short sighted view and hold so much power over the process. Zingermans has obviously put a lot of thought into the plans and has made every effort to have a building that would fit well in the neighborhood. It would seem to me the gain of a growing business in our tough economy with more jobs outweighs the loss of buildings that have outlived their usefulness.
smacks
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 8:15 a.m.
I wonder what the terms "a living wage" that everyone seems so fond of using, really mean. Enough to support a family with children, a mortgage, a car, etc. in Ann Arbor? Call me skeptical. Any Zingerman's vets here willing to share?
libertyforall
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:46 a.m.
Ann Arbor needs to remove their head from their cavity and get this done. And so what if a sandwich costs more, it's 100% better, no one's forcing you to eat it.
Rich Sheridan
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:23 a.m.
So we have a successful, world-renowned local business that charges enough for their products that they can employ hundreds at livable wages AND they want to expand their business in a part of town that once upon a time was quite blighted (remember the 80s?) but is now historic. I believe Zingerman's (and Kerrytown) had a strong hand in making sure this historic district was even possible! For those of us who work in this part of town, the most common question we get from out-of-town visitors is "Can you tell where to find Zingerman's?" I am amazed that we would find anything to complain about when a local, profitable business wants to expand in a thoughtful way.
Brian Kuehn
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:22 a.m.
If Zingerman's moved into their present location when it was part of the Historic District, then they properly should jump through the hoops required. At the same time, the HDC should consider the big picture and balance the historic aspects of a burned out residence against the respectful and well thought out renovation plans developed by Zingermans and their architect. If Zingerman's occupancy pre-dates the Historic District, then it is a crime to allow a committee to control the property rights of another person or business.
GratefulReb
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:14 a.m.
Expansion should be improved immediately! One less eyesore in A2 would be be greatly appreciated. Maybe Karen K should take a walk down Miller and help those boarded up "victorian" houses. Good luck Zingerman's.
DagnyJ
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 7:07 a.m.
How about the school district move Community HS to the Skyline building and sells the HS to Zingermans?
Nick Danger
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 6:33 a.m.
As long as they use local labor to do the expansionI say go for it. We need the jobs
John
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 5:47 a.m.
Better be careful folks. Zingerman's is known world-round. You know they could just close up shop and move to a better location. How would you all like that?
Maureen Molleron
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:52 a.m.
I grew up on Kingsley and later lived in a Condo accross the street from Zingerman's. During that time Kerrytown was the Framer's Market and Diroff's (spelling?) was where Zingerman's is. No one stopped the building of Kerrytown, and it hasn't ruined the "looks" of the neighborhood. These houses are NOT historical from my point of view. If Zingerman's doesn't make some ugly boxy building, it would enhance the neighborhood, just as Kerrytown did. Having moved from Ann Arbor, I'm not sure if the same woman is in charge of the Historical District (living across from St. Thomsa Church), but after she moved there she was always bothering the rest of to not change anything in our yards, etc. The neighborhood NEEDS a facelift. The slum landlords who rent to students should be forced to clean up their buildings; but they probably will say it's "Historical" to not make improvements. Zingerman creates jobs which are sorely needed!
frozenhotchocolate
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:14 a.m.
Why not get another, already built location on the otherside of downtown. All this trouble for sandwiches, kitchen, for sandwiches, a slicer a kitchen does not make
bunnyabbot
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 1:05 a.m.
The HDC doesn't really have a code, they're more, "guide lines".
racerx
Tue, Mar 9, 2010 : 12:15 a.m.
This is a no-brainer. Zingerman's is known the world over, and to go through so many hoops to expand is really killing any business who might be planning on either expanding or opening in the city. Any investment to grow their business is a benefit to the community. But first, they must have the Planning Commision approval, then City Council and then the HDC for "consideration"? What a bunch of crap! And one of the buildings is boarded up and fire damaged, but the other has historic significance. To who? A bunch of self anointed individuals who think of their power and control as enduring? Oh please! Dismantle this group and let Zing's expand. Then, after Zing's spend the money to try to get the HDC to approve, and if they don't, it's not the HDC losing money, it's Zing's. Good grief Ann Arbor.
Missy O
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 11:07 p.m.
Go, Zingerman's go! You've made Kerrytown a better place and I'm glad you're staying in the neighborhood!
John Hritz
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 10:26 p.m.
Sandwich pricing at Zingermans is a function of high quality materials, labor cost which pays staff a living wage and markup. You can always buy the components and make your own sandwich. That said, I was a bit baffled when the 1/2 sandwich went from 1/2 price plus a buck to full price less a dollar (now 2 dollars). Georgian Reubens are running 14.50 now. It'll take 483,000 of 'em to pay off the expansion price. I'm only good for a couple a year.
bruno_uno
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 10 p.m.
sweet...i cant wait til they set the precendent and then others can take advantage of this historic district in the downtown with commercial plans of their own, imagine treasure mart as a big box named Super T Mart. Not likely of course, but this will open the door for others to ask why not them.
Karen K
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 9:11 p.m.
Zingerman's is a successful business committed to remaining in the community. Ann Arbor is lucky that they are here. It sounds as if they are trying hard to do their needed expansion in a sensitive way.
stunhsif
Mon, Mar 8, 2010 : 8:56 p.m.
Seems like a ton of money to invest ( 4 to 7 million) but now we know why they charge 100% more for a sandwich than most other places! Good guess prices will rise even more if they do this expansion.