Speed limits to increase along several Ypsilanti area roads
Sections of several Ypsilanti and Ypsilanti Township roads will see their speed limits rise after an evaluation of area roads by the Michigan State Police and Michigan Department of Transportation.
Officials used a variety of factors in determining which speed limits to raise, but stressed that increasing the speed limit by 5 to 10 mph along the selected roads would increase safety.
The roads and speeds include:
- Washtenaw Avenue from US-23 to Oakwood Street to 45 mph from 40
- Washtenaw Avenue from Oakwood to Summit Street to 40 mph from 35
- Washtenaw Avenue from Summit to Hamilton Street to 35 mph from 30
- Hamilton from Washtenaw to Ferris Street to 35 mph from 30
- Hamilton from Ferris to I-94 to 40 mph from 35
- South Huron Street from I-94 to Ferris to 40 mph from 35
- Michigan Avenue from the Huron River to Johnson Street to 40 mph from 35
- Michigan Avenue from Johnson to Rawsonville Road to 50 mph from 45
- Ecorse Road from Michigan to Oaklawn Street to 40 mph from 35
- Ecorse from Oaklawn to Ford Boulevard to 45 mph from 35
Lt. Gary Megge of the MSP Traffic Services Section said the idea of raising speeds to increase safety is counterintuitive because people consider faster-moving vehicles to be less safe.
Megge said most motorists will typically drive above a posted speed if that speed limit is too low. Still other motorists will drive the speed limit, so the disparity in motorists’ speeds creates an unsafe situation because it increases quick lane changes, tailgating and other dangerous driving behaviors.
“When you have traffic traveling at nearly identical speeds, you improve overall traffic flow and efficiency,” he said. “Once we establish a proper speed limit, police officers can focus on the more egregious violator.”
The speed limit on South Huron Street between I-94 and Ferris Street will increase to 40 mph from 35 mph.
Tom Perkins | For AnnArbor.com
That includes people who drive excessive speeds no matter what the speed limit, Megge said. It also means officers can focus on seatbelt enforcement, impaired driving and intersection violations.
Wendy Ramirez, a traffic engineer at MDOT, also said people will drive at a “comfortable, safe, reasonable speed” despite the speed limit, and it’s up to the two agencies to establish that reasonable limit.
“The more uniform the speeds of vehicles in a traffic stream, the less chance there is for conflict and crashes,” she said.
Establishing the proper speed limit includes checking a variety of factors, and MDOT and state police try to study the state’s trunklines every 10 years.
They examine a road's accident history, the number of lanes, the number of curves and how many hills it has. They also check roadside environment, which includes access points; whether the road is in a residential, commercial or industrial zone; whether there is parking on the side of the road; the road's physical condition; the number of cars and the number of crosswalks, stop signs and other signals.
But the most important factor is referred to as the 85th percentile speed test. Officials monitor traffic along a selected stretch of road and determine what speed 85 percent of the traffic is moving at or below during normal conditions.
“We want to allow the vast majority of drivers to drive legally, safely and comfortably,” Megge said. “If the speed limit is too low then we can actually create a speed problem for officers because we set it artificially low.”
Megge said people generally will drive at the rate they feel is comfortable and safe despite the posted speed. He said he has done hundreds of speed tests throughout his 15-year career, and changing the speed limit has very little effect on how fast motorists drive.
For example, raising the speed limit by 5 mph doesn’t mean motorists who were already driving 5 mph over the original limit will suddenly speed up, Megge explained.
Officials from MDOT and state police met with Ypsilanti Township officials to discuss the proposed changes, though Ypsilanti Mayor Paul Schreiber said he wasn’t contacted about the proposed changes.
Comments
soldiergirl
Wed, Apr 4, 2012 : 5:13 p.m.
I agree with 'a2cents'. The speed limit may be perceived by those racing by to be too low, but when walking with a dog or small child on this RESIDENTIAL street, the speed limit is just fine. No tolerance for the little things has been shown in many other communities to improve the entire community. Everyone works together to make the place better, and bad behavior, from littering, to armed robbery is not tolerated. If one little infraction is tolerated, soon, everything is acceptable.
Ben
Fri, Apr 6, 2012 : 4:30 p.m.
Absolutely. Rule with an iron fist!
Joe
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 2:28 a.m.
I think it's shameful that we would simply raise speeds rather than redesign roads to make them safer. I'm thinking in particular about Washtenaw as it passes EMU's campus. This is a residential neighborhood across from a campus. Hundreds of students are crossing this street every day. To make this street, or any street in Ypsi, more like a highway is just another way we are sacrificing safety and quality of life for ease of driving our cars. At a time when Ypsi is considering a Climate Action Plan, this is a regressive, dangerous and stupid action to take.
grimmk
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 1 a.m.
THANK GOD! Best news I've heard all year. I drive these roads a lot and I always feel like a little old lady driving 35 down these roads. People are always trying to run everyone over anyways.
Dan
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:22 p.m.
What we ought to be doing is implementing road diets and other measures that promote pedestrian safety. Raising the speed limits will only make life harder for cyclists and pedestrians.
Joe
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 2:33 a.m.
The more important point is that the speed that people drive is already unsafe, and any increase, however small, is a step in the wrong direction. Road diets are the only sensible solution.
Jim Walker
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 2:16 a.m.
For Dan, I have never been able to follow this argument. When speed limits are raised by up to 15 mph, the upper end of the speed range around the 85th percentile changes by a MAX of 3 mph, and usually by 1 mph or less. Sometimes the limit is raised and the 85th percentile speed goes down by 1 or 2 mph. In any case, the difference is very small. So HOW EXACTLY does a raised speed limit make it harder for cyclists and pedestrians when the traffic speeds have virtually no change? Jim Walker, NMA
Ann English
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:04 p.m.
I know we had a short winter, but one day during it, I pulled onto Hamilton Street from the east side and immediately sensed the slippery condition of the road, so I turned right onto Ferris Street so that I could drive more slowly without being surrounded by motorists who drove faster than I did. Just imagining that increasing speed limits there could lead to more collisions at Ferris and Hamilton than before.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 9:04 p.m.
There are two major flaws in taking this 85th percentile to be a solution for traffic issues. The first, and biggest for a city such as ours where walkability is a major asset, is that this metric is based solely on reduction in car crashes. It does not address pedestrian (bike or foot) traffic. The second is that bringing up the speed limit is not the only solution to the problem. As I mentioned in another comment, redesigning streets to bring down the 85th speed percentile is also an effective solution. The added benefit of redesigning streets to bring down speeds is that it reduces the frequency of accidents *and* the severity. Further it addresses my first point which is that streets with lower speeds are safer for bike and foot traffic.
Jack
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:41 p.m.
Has anyone ever traveled down Grove Road by Ford Lake where you go from Ypsi Township to Ypsilanti City. Speed is posted at 35 in Ypsi Twp. 25 as soon as you enter the City of Ypsi. Only they don't say you've just entered the City, no marking. And you've just seen the 35 mph sign and aren't looking for yet another sign (smaller) that changes the limit to 25 almost immediately after the 35 mph sign. I see cops sitting there where the limit changes all the time just waiting for the next poor sucker to give a ticket to. It's a wide street with no residential housing at that 25 mph area, totally unsuitable for such a low speed limit. Don't tell me it's not about the money. Hogwash.
Ann English
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:22 p.m.
You remind of the years when I could drive home from work using Baker Road in Dexter. There, the speed limit signs are in the right places, giving you time to slow down more than once as you get closer and closer to the village. They even had signs telling you the speed limit up ahead, so you can prepare for it. I don't remember cops patrolling Baker Road, or any accidents along it. What Ypsilanti hasn't done for motorists on the roads, Dexter has done. Makes me look back with fresh appreciation.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:14 p.m.
These changes will likely never be put in place. The Ypsilanti Non-Motorized Advisory Committee is working with the City and MDOT to redesign most of these streets to allow us to keep the speed limits down and maintain safety for both pedestrians and motorists. There will be some combination of lane-narrowing and lane-elimination to accomplish. This is a plan that MDOT has stated they will support.
Joe
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 2:34 a.m.
I hope you're right.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 9:10 p.m.
The Ypsilanti Non-Motorized Advisory Committee meetings are always public and very much anyone interested is very much welcome to attend and/or participate. Next meeting is 4/19 7pm in the downstairs meeting room at the Ypsilanti District Library.
ypsiboy
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:48 p.m.
Cool. Nice to see local work going on.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:18 p.m.
I should say *most* of these changes won't take place. A couple will be left as is, although I'm not sure which.
SMC
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:11 p.m.
The bleating of the anti-speed safety sheep is certainly loud today. I find it particularly amusing that their biggest complaint about increased speed limits is that the government is caving in to the will of the speed-demon motorists, who have somehow managed to influence government policy despite failing to organize themselves as a lobbyist group. The existing speed limits on the roads in question were set by the same methods that now mandate their increase, namely, traffic studies and average speed measurement. This may seem unfamiliar to many Ann Arborites, as we are used to seeing the city council pass traffic laws based on zero research whatsoever, which is why motor vehicles are expected to stop instantaneously for any pedestrian who is within 20 yards of a crosswalk. The existing speed limits were not handed down by God, or created by some higher intelligence whose mystical powers allow it to determine the maximum safe speed of travel on any given roadway. They were created by the very same organizations that are changing them to better reflect the way the roads are used.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 9:08 p.m.
The 85th percentile method completely overlooks the fact roads are used by bicyclists and are crossed by foot traffic. These are factors that need to be considered when developing traffic laws, something the 85th percentile metric fails to do. MDOT will actually support municipalities' efforts to bring down that 85th percentile as an alternative to raising the speed limit. The organizations that do this redesign, usually groups within the local government, take into account the full picture of how streets are used, not just how fast cars drive.
ypsiboy
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:46 p.m.
Maybe you haven't been reading the posts by James C. Walker National Motorists Association (lobbyist), or following the arguments. The argument for slower speeds is the 'mandate' as you call is wrongly conceived and that the 85% is the problem, not whatever the current speed limits are.
Andrew Jason Clock
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 6:46 p.m.
Oh, good, because its not dangerous enough for pedestrians to cross Washtenaw or Hamilton during busy times. I'm going to go ahead and call at least one fatality on one of these massive one ways this year. Even at the lower speeds, you take you life in your hands crossing anywhere there isn't a stop light.
ypsiboy
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 5:26 p.m.
Jim, so it's better to have everyone drive fast for pedestrian safety??? And I don't know about you, but when I'm crossing the street, I look at the traffic, not the speed limit sign.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:48 p.m.
Since the actual travel speeds are unlikely to change +/- one mph, you will not perceive any difference in the upper speed range. What you probably will perceive is more even and more predictable speed ranges. It does NOT make anything safer to have the signs suggest people are coming at 35 mph when the truth is 40. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
djacks24
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:37 p.m.
"Even at the lower speeds, you take you life in your hands crossing anywhere there isn't a stop light." Great! Along with slowing down when coming up to a pedistrian approaching a crosswalk, we can add slow down when approaching a J-walker. Place all blame on the motorist whenever possible.
SMC
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:12 p.m.
This is why pedestrians should not cross where there are no traffic lights or stop signs, especially during peak traffic times.
Harry
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 5:10 p.m.
Megge said most motorists will typically drive above a posted speed if that speed limit is too low. Still other motorists will drive the speed limit, so the disparity in motorists' speeds creates an unsafe situation because it increases quick lane changes, tailgating and other dangerous driving behaviors. What a bizarre statement. Why not ticket them for breaking the law instead of giving in and having the speed limit raised. The city could sure use the money.
Duke Ganote
Wed, Apr 4, 2012 : 2:05 p.m.
@ypsiboy: RE: "And there are high tech methods to increase enforcement and not costs as well." Arg! That's just a man-vs-machine contest where it's too easy to governments to "rig for revenue". The real high-tech solution is google's driverless vehicles; then all this "I'm superior-to-thou because I'd set the speeds 5 mph lower than a wayward baby carriage" argument ends and local traffic enforcement goes the way of the buggy whip.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 10:35 p.m.
For akronym - I didn't mean to ignore your comment, I thought my answers to other comments addressed your concerns. Yes, you can use traffic calming to reduce actual travel speeds, but it is not appropriate on main state trunk line highways. Enforcement simply does not work, we don't have the resources. Now think about this. If you are a pedestrian or bicycle user and the traffic is coming with an 85th percentile speed of 40 mph - do you want the speed limit signs to tell you the truth and say 40, or would you rather have them lie to you and say 35 or 30? The actual traffic speeds won't be any different +/- one or maybe two mph. Part of the problem here is that local authorities fail or refuse to tell their citizens the truth about traffic flow and traffic safety. Sometimes, they tell total falsehoods "We will lower the speed limit to lower traffic speeds and make things safer." They can change the numbers on the signs, but it doesn't change travel speeds enough to make any difference and it can disrupt the smoothness and therefore the safety of the flow. Jim Walker, NMA
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:58 p.m.
And Jim I don't know if you missed my comment or tried to ignore it but numerous and repeatable trafic studies have shown that street design can effectively control speed. Also worth noting is that this 85th percentile does not take into consideration pedestrian safety. Since one of the major assets of Ypsilanti is its walkability this is something that our city values highly with good reason. Ignoring the needs of foot and bike traffic is a huge mistake that many cities make. It's great that we've realized the value of keeping our city safe for all forms of transportation.
ypsiboy
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:34 p.m.
Wrong again Jim. Treating speeders with the same veracity as drunk drivers would change driving habits quickly. And there are high tech methods to increase enforcement and not costs as well.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:34 p.m.
You cannot ticket every major road 24/7 and that is the only method that would change the actual travel speeds. So, your choices are (1) to post for maximum safety at the 85th percentile speed OR (2) to post way below that safest level and ticket periodically for revenue. Ann Arbor and to some extent Ypsilanti prefer (2) which reduces safety, but makes money. James C. Walker National Motorists Association
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:24 p.m.
Enforcement is one option for bringing down speeds. The issue there is that requires enough police staff to consistently write tickets in targeted areas. This is something that even fully policed cities have trouble accomplishing. Ypsilanti, which is running at about 70% of recommended police levels, is unable to control speeds via ticketing. The result is that MDOT comes in and does a speed survey and sets the speed limit at 85th percentile as the article stated. The article is correct that when a greater percentage of traffic travels the same speed there are fewer accidents and higher throughput. What the article does not mention is that upping the speed limit and targeted enforcement are not the only methods for increasing speed equity.
SMC
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:13 p.m.
Because the law does not reflect the speed at which majority of the traffic is moving, and therefore the law must change, not the drivers.
MK
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 5:05 p.m.
And how about raising the speed limit to 45-50 on Geddes from dixboro to the superior rd round about? Such an awesome road to drive enthusiastically :D
grimmk
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 1:06 a.m.
I love that stretch of road. Watch out for the cops though, they're out there.
MK
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 5:03 p.m.
How about they repave prospect from Michigan ave to Clark and bump up the speed limit. It's ridiculous how bad the potholes are.
grimmk
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 1:05 a.m.
I know. I drive around in the residential part just to miss it.
akronymn
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:54 p.m.
That chunk of road is third or fourth in line for a repave. It'll likely be 2015 or 16 before that gets repaved.
dading dont delete me bro
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:33 p.m.
mk, those are speed bumps.
ralphypsilanti
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 4:59 p.m.
Mr. Walker and Lt. Gary Megge views are auto-centric: Ticket count, flow of traffic, tailgating, etc… Both the Ypsilanti Hamilton and Huron Street speed increases go through residential areas of homes, churches, etc… If the state really wants to make it a safe area for ALL users: pedestrians, bicyclist and motorized traffic. Then implement a road diet by decreasing Hamilton and Huron Streets down from three to two lanes, scheduling crosswalks and creating bicycle lanes.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 10:28 p.m.
For Foobar417. Main highways are to move people and goods to keep the economy moving. Traffic calming measures are not appropriate for our main highways. You might note that Michigan's fatality rate is about 25% lower than the national average and that section of the Michigan State Police has received two Governor's Traffic Safety Advisory Commission awards for their work in the speed limit area. Jim Walker, NMA
foobar417
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 9:59 p.m.
@Jim Walker: So, speed limits are just excuses to give tickets and designing roads to slow traffic is interfering with the free flow of business. In other words, you just want to be able to drive as fast as you can in your car, regardless of what kind of environment that creates for pedestrians and cyclists. Nice.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:46 p.m.
It IS possible to change actual travel speeds by degrading the road environment. MDOT and the State Police are unlikely to use any sort of traffic calming on major highways through cities. Business routes of state highways are meant to carry the main commuting and commercial traffic and efficient throughput is important for economics. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 4:08 p.m.
These changes will improve traffic safety and smooth traffic flow, just as they did on state highways in Ann Arbor in 2008 (Washtenaw and North Main, parts of US-23 and I-94). For Ypsiboy, your belief that traffic will always go 5 to 9 mph faster staying just within the tolerance zone is simply false. On Washtenaw near Stadium, the 85th percentile speed when posted at 35 mph was 47 mph. After they raised the posted limit to 45 mph, the 85th percentile speed stayed at 47 mph. The portion posted at 30 mph and now posted at 40 mph had an 85th percentile speed of 40 mph, before and after. Raising or lowering posted speed limits by 5, 10, or 15 mph will change the actual 85th percentile speed (upper end of the traffic flow) by a MAXIMUM of 3 mph, and usually by 1 mph or less. The posted speed limit has almost no effect on actual traffic speeds, unless the enforcement is very close to 24/7 which no city can afford. Peter is correct, enforcement of under posted limits is almost entirely about revenue, not safety. Traffic engineers and traffic patrol officers know that under posted limits do not change the traffic flow speeds, so officers can go out to the speed trap areas day after day, month after month, year after year -- and collect a LOT of money. It does not improve safety, it actually makes it worse. It does not slow the upper end of speed range, it just increases the speed variance and the conflicts between vehicles. Unfortunately for our area, the City of Ann Arbor and to some extent the City of Ypsilanti prefer ticket revenue to safety. So the main roads under city control tend to be very under posted. The State Police, MDOT and the Washtenaw County Road Commission prefer safety, so roads under their control tend to be posted properly - at or near the 85th percentile speed of free flowing traffic under good conditions, because that is the best and safest way to do it. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, www.motorists.org, Ann Arbor, MI
Stuart Brown
Wed, Apr 4, 2012 : 1:32 a.m.
Harry, Actually in Michigan now (since 2006), if a local community does not post a speed limit properly, the default speed limit is 55. That is what the LAW says. Here is the reason we should not post the speed limit at 90, posting the speed at the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic means 15% of the vehicles are traveling at a speed greater than or equal to the posted limit. 15% of the vehicles on a busy street would amount to a lot of potential tickets so a significant amount of enforcement can still occur.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 10:25 p.m.
For Ypsiboy, the follow up numbers on Washtenaw were from several studies, as much as two years later. Speeds didn't change, they almost never do by more than one or two mph. Posted limits simply don't affect the upper end of travel speeds unless you have nearly 24/7 enforcement which no city can afford. Note we are talking about Washtenaw-Business 94, not the Interstate 94. Note also that 85th percentile posted speed limit methodology is over 70 years old and is the basis of setting speed limits in every engineering text, IF safety and smooth traffic flow are the true goals (NOT the case for the city of Ann Arbor and often for the city of Ypsilanti). The effects of enforcement are VERY temporary in time and very short in distance. The University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute did a study of enforcement on an Interstate work zone. By 3,000 feet after the location, speeds were right back to the same levels. It makes money, but does NOT reduce speeds enough to matter. I try to drive at the 85th percentile speed +/- about 3 mph and I can fairly accurately estimate the 85th after studying this issue for 50 years. This is the safest speed of travel, and that is where I want to be. The posted limit is irrelevant to safety, since it has so little effect on travel speeds. See www.michigan.gov/speedlimits and download the Booklet from the State Police which is much better than the short pamphlet. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
SMC
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:19 p.m.
"People need to obey the law. Driving speeds should not dictate how fast the speed limit should be. Safety should always be considered first." In other words, the law should be blindly obeyed, simply because it is there. When last I looked, in this country, laws can be changed to reflect the times, when they are unjust, or simply no longer make any sense. Safety is considered when speed limits are set. If they weren't, the streets would be awash in blood, and traffic accidents would be the #1 cause of preventable deaths in this country instead of heart attacks. However, traffic fatalities have decreased every year for the last 20 (or more), as cars have become safer.
Harry
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 5:15 p.m.
Jim Walker Why not just raise the speed limit to 90 everywere. Then nobody will break the law.(yes I am be facisous) People need to obey the law. Driving speeds should not dictate how fast the speed limit should be. Safety should always be considered first.
ypsiboy
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.
The follow up numbers you quote were done same time of day, day of the week, and at least two months after the change (to allow time for people to notice and adjust to the change)? "your belief that traffic will always go 5 to 9 mph faster staying just within the tolerance zone is simply false." I can't believe you don't know a lot of people who set their cruise to 9 above. The examples you gave for Washtenaw in 2008 are not relevent to this discussion. It was a speed trap that was set unbelievably low. You spent a lot of your comments talking about speed traps and not traffic flow. I was driving I-94 between Ypsi and Ann Arbor daily when that changed you mention was put in effect. It was at the time one of the worst sections of roads I've ever driven (the 23/94 entrance/exit is maybe the worst interstate exchange in the county). It's now worse. I defy you to drive that section of road at a busy time and tell me it's safe. I do not believe that the median speed is not higher now than prior to 2008. Enforcement could be done (almost non-existent now), revenue generated, speeds slowed down. You and others just don't want to do it. Your arguement is: we don't have the staff to 'slow the upper end of the speed range' and enforce the slower (and I believe safer) speeds, so we'll have people drive faster so there is less difference between vehicle speeds. In other words, we can't do the safest thing, so we'll do the next best. Do you drive according to the speed limit??
djacks24
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 4:16 p.m.
Excellent reply. Much more informative than the article itself. Thank you. It would be nice if A2.com did some investigative reporting and went and got input from experts like you to prevent any disparity on possible controversies like this, instead of their usual style as to regurgitate MDOTs (or any sources) comments and let the readers hash it out in the comments section.
djacks24
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:45 p.m.
Megge said most motorists will typically drive above a posted speed if that speed limit is too low. Still other motorists will drive the speed limit, so the disparity in motorists' speeds creates "an unsafe situation because it increases quick lane changes, tailgating and other dangerous driving behaviors. "When you have traffic traveling at nearly identical speeds, you improve overall traffic flow and efficiency," he said. "Once we establish a proper speed limit, police officers can focus on the more egregious violator."" It looks good on paper, but we'll just have to see. I was driving on Textile over the weekend and somebody tailgating me. I was going 5 over the posted limit. I got to Bridge road and the tailgater passed me on the right. Then the next car ahead of me he/she passed on a double yellow no passing zone. Whenever I see blatant, careless driving like this anywhere, there is never a traffic cop is sight. My assumption is folks will get accustomed to the new speed and the same problems will ensue. The reality is you can post whatever rules and speed limits you want, but if they aren't enforced, they mean nothing.
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:43 p.m.
Since the actual travel speeds are unlikely to change by more than +/- one mph, you will probably not perceive any difference -- except less of the predatory enforcement for revenue. I have not seen a city police speed trap on Washtenaw since April 2008 when the new limits were posted, and it was as much as every other day before the new limits. Speeds are unchanged. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
ypsiboy
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:40 p.m.
Megge said people generally will drive at the rate they feel is comfortable and safe despite the posted speed. He said he has done hundreds of speed tests throughout his 15-year career, and changing the speed limit has very little effect on how fast motorists drive. For example, raising the speed limit by 5 mph doesn't mean motorists who were already driving 5 mph over the original limit will suddenly speed up, Megge explained. Total bull. A sizable percentage of people drive at 5 or 9 over and always will. They push others to drive faster. A safe driver who drives the speed limit will automatically go faster in order to get in the flow of traffic. (All comments assuming daytime traffic conditions). Using the State Patrols (il)logic, speed limits will always increase (they raise the limit, 85% drive faster, they raise the limits again). It appears to me they are, for whatever reason, coddling the speeders and tailgaters...so they can go after seat belt offenders???? I'm with A2cents on enforement. Safer? No way. It's harder and consequently less safe to move into faster moving traffic, whether you are driving, biking, or on foot.
Duke Ganote
Tue, Apr 3, 2012 : 8:42 p.m.
Lt Megge is correct; I've done similar studies myself. There's a stretch of interstate near where I used to live that at various times was posted at 45 mph, 55 mph and 65 mph at various times and largely identical conditions. Transitioning from 45 mph to 65 mph resulted in a measly 4 mph difference in average speeds. Getting other people to change their opinion of a reasonable speed on a road may be as difficult than getting you to change your deep faith in your own opinion. Majority rules, rather political whims, is what keeps us from schizo-demagoguery and a police state.
LC
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:15 p.m.
This wouldn't happen if Ypsilanti had an income tax.
soldiergirl
Wed, Apr 4, 2012 : 9:52 p.m.
Really?
Peter
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:02 p.m.
Traffic enforcement is almost entirely about revenue generation, not safety. The police will argue otherwise, but until that money goes to the schools instead of their own budgets I wouldn't recommend believing them...
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:41 p.m.
For Frustrated in A2. Correct, a large portion of the money goes to the local courts. THAT is why the city wants posted speed limits kept so far below the safest level, because the local courts bring in so much money that way. It has nothing whatever to do with safety, because greater safety could be obtained with 85th percentile posted limits. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
Frustrated in A2
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:33 p.m.
A majority of ticket money, roughly 70% of each ticket depending on your jurisdiction, goes to the court. Police departments don't make enough money from their tickets where it could be used for generation of revenue for the department. Even if it was used to generate revenue I do believe there are legal restrictions that prohibit money from being transferred from one budget to another.
lisasimpson
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3 p.m.
I think the issue is that, for a lot of these stretches of road, it feels natural to go faster than the posted speed limit. I think a lot of these speed limits were set artificially low to begin with. I find myself speeding these stretches all the time.
foobar417
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 6:03 p.m.
The initial problem is the roadway design. If you design roads to let people speed, people will speed. The secondary problem is the response. If you say "wow, people are speeding, let's make it legal" all you are doing is certifying the behavior. The right solution is to decide what kind of speeding environment you want (highway, business district, residential, etc.) and decide the roadway to encourage that level of speed.
a2cents
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 1:39 p.m.
It's a shame that enforcement wasn't tried first. I recall an Illinois governor who made the simple declaration that the speed limit was THE speed LIMIT, no mercy & no allowances. To drive home the point, the state police used non-traditional vehicles in enforcement... older cars, pickups, vans and even a motor home to disguise radar. They wrote tickets for less-than-5-over. Fear was rampant, but only the foolhardy were speeding.
Ben
Fri, Apr 6, 2012 : 4:24 p.m.
The point of speed limits is to mitigate risk. Your approach doesn't even weigh the risk. What's the real danger of a vehicle going 1 mph over the posted limit? What's the margin of error on the speed measurement?
Jim Walker
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 7:39 p.m.
Periodically using enforcement IS the current method, as no city can afford anything like 24/7 enforcement that would change actual speeds. I drive pretty frequently in Illinois, both in Chicagoland and across the state further south. Enforcement is VERY occasional and completely ineffective. The 85th percentile speeds on the far suburban Chicago area freeways is between 75 and 80 mph, but still posted at 55 mph since 1974. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association
snark12
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 2:32 p.m.
Was that Illinois governor one of the recent ones currently sitting in jail? They do seem to take law and order seriously in that office. :-)
Ignatz
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 2:20 p.m.
Strict Law and Order rarely works well on humans and their societies. Besides, YPD has more problems with which to deal than minor speeding.
Dave Gitterman
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:46 a.m.
When?
Jack
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 8:24 p.m.
YpsiLivin - I assume you have data to back up your statements? I would be interested to see a comparison of accidents before and after the speed limit change - from the police.
djacks24
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 3:14 p.m.
"I can say that things have been great here since the MSP raised the speed limit on Hewitt between Packard and Ellsworth from 35 to 45. We've seen an increase in the severity of the accidents, several houses have been hit by cars, most of us now have new mailboxes, we've had one house-car near miss, lots of property damage, and we've even had two rollovers, which is something we never used to get with the old speed limit. It's been real nice." I'm assuming this is sarcasm?
YpsiLivin
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 12:30 p.m.
Actually, I think the speed limit change takes effect when the recommendation is made. A motorist wouldn't know the limit was changed until the sign goes up, but old signage doesn't delay the speed limit change at all - as Pittsfield Twp found out (the hard way) on Golfside. The speed limit on Golfside between Packard and Ellsworth was raised years ago and Pittsfield Twp refused to change the signs. (They also still refused to stop writing tickets for exceeding the older speed limit.) Finally, a judge ordered them to post the correct signage on that stretch of road. Speaking from personal experience and living on Hewitt, I can say that things have been great here since the MSP raised the speed limit on Hewitt between Packard and Ellsworth from 35 to 45. We've seen an increase in the severity of the accidents, several houses have been hit by cars, most of us now have new mailboxes, we've had one house-car near miss, lots of property damage, and we've even had two rollovers, which is something we never used to get with the old speed limit. It's been real nice.
sellers
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 12:07 p.m.
As soon as the signs can get posted, if history serves as a barometer, expect it to be completed in the next 30-45 days.
AdmiralMoose
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:21 a.m.
All this is good, but I'm disappointed that the limit on Cross St between Hewitt and Mansfield wasn't changed. If you want to talk about speed disparity, brother, that's the place, with three zones (25-35-45) in about half a mile. Try to drive the posted 25 mph in front of Shadford Field and Estabrook and you might get rear-ended.
Ben
Fri, Apr 6, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.
I wonder about this too - I drive it every day, and try to stick to the posted limits while most others go 40+. A five lane road with a 25 mph limit is just asking for trouble. The least they could do is make the 25 mph limit during school start/end times only, like I've seen on Platt Rd in Ann Arbor. Yes, you do need to drop to 25 as soon as you cross Mansfield, but there are plenty of visual cues to help people make that transition. The 25 in front of Shadford and Estabrook doesn't help.
Roger Dodger
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 6:20 p.m.
I live in the house on Cross next to Mansfield right in front of where it goes from 2 lanes to one lane. All day long there is a chorus of honking horns as people try to speed up and make their way into the correct lane, while others try to keep them from merging. The speed limit MUST drop there, as you are going from Packard, a well traveled 4 lane with center turn lane, to a 2 lane residential area, passing through a school zone. I drive 25 mph down that road every day, and you are right. People tailgate, flip me off, and yell at me regularly. But this is MY STREET. It is a residential zone, and there are lots of children in the area. The speed limit is 25 in front of the elementary school and homes, and people should follow that. In fact, I had to complain to Mr. Pizza once because their driver drove so aggressively behind my car I thought he was going to hit me. Thankfully, Ypsilanti put up the "You are going this fast" sign this past week, and that seems to help for a bit.
AdmiralMoose
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 12:13 p.m.
Thanks, sellers.
sellers
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 12:07 p.m.
That roadway is not a state trunkline, and not under this study or change.
tdw
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 11:42 a.m.
I don't think it's 45 until it turns into Packard.I usually go 30-35-40 the whole way....UNLESS there are school buses or kids present
dading dont delete me bro
Mon, Apr 2, 2012 : 10:28 a.m.
eggsalent.