Madison1109

Sun, Oct 25, 2009 : 12:46 p.m.

I'm curious where A Voice of Reason found a school district giving annual 11% raises. Had I worked there, I'd have been making nearly $300,000 per year when I retired after 40 years.

PaperTiger

Sun, Oct 25, 2009 : 6:20 a.m.

Way to go braggslaw. "Reopen the teacher contracts and cut benefits." If you look, most of the money spent is in salary and benefits. Pay cuts and benefit payments also for the administrators would help tremendously.

a2edu

Sat, Oct 24, 2009 : 4:37 p.m.

I could cut 6 million in three minutes from AAPS without any student feeling a thing: 1. Fire all failed former principals and other administrators from their "jobs" counting paperclips at the Balas Administration building on State St. Why are we continuing to pay their top salaries and benefits for absolutely no benefit for students? Fire all non-essential Balas employees - especially nepotism hires. 2. Why does AAPS need a full-time spokesperson? Isn't that the Superintendent's job? Eliminate that position. 3. 20% of the AAPS student population is "special ed." Cut overly generous services to that special interest group, and you'll see those numbers start dropping. Many special ed classrooms have 3-6 students in them, lowering the averages you see in student-teacher ratios. We cannot afford to continue this trend. 4. As so many of us knew from the start, AAPS had absolutely no business building Skyline. Ultimately, it's the voters' fault for going along with this financial blunder. But since that horse is already out of the barn, there are schools that need to be closed: Pittsfield Elementary, Stone School and yes, the biggest golden cow of them all - Community High. 5. Three words: pay to play. 6. Eliminate 7th hour at the high schools. The bussing is just too costly. 7. While we're at it, eliminate bussing. Rather, spend by giving needy students bus passes, which is cheaper than keeping a fleet of busses and drivers.

Rosie

Sat, Oct 24, 2009 : 9:50 a.m.

I am thankful for the posters who give us links to their sources of information. For others who place incorrect figures in their posts, please either speak as a person with first-hand knowledge or be willing to show us where you get your "facts." "7-11%" raises for teachers?! This year Ypsilanti teachers were being asked to take a 3% pay cut and not receive step increases. In the past few years we were receiving raises of.5%-1.5% IF student numbers increased as projected. If the numbers weren't there - NO RAISE! shawnsbrain - you claim that teachers are "rolling in money." How do you know this? You said that many teachers took second jobs with you. If teachers were paid so well why would they need a second job?! I know teachers who take summer jobs, jobs during the holiday season, and at any other opportunity because they would not be able to pay the mortgage or for their kid's dental work without it. You claim that we are overpaid? I went to school for six years to earn my degree and yet after six years in the teaching profession I only brought home about $35,000 last year. Someone who goes to college for just four years and gets a degree in computer sciences has a starting salary averaging around $55,000. I have spent the last few years investing another $30,000 of my own money to keep my teaching certificate and stay current in my profession. How many other professions require that people spend that much money to keep their jobs? For many professions where keeping abreast of the changes is important, the employers often provide the training for the employees. Not in teaching. Professional development days deal with building issues, MEAP, the school's curriculum, and a host of other issues that won't keep a teacher's license valid. We must do that on our own time with our own money. As for being underworked- I was at work usually by 6:45 a.m. every day and usually did not leave until sometimes as late at 9:00 p.m. even on a Friday. I always took work home with me. (How many people in other professions bring work home to do every day?) There were Saturdays and Sundays when a number of us came to school to work. I spent summers teaching summer school (because I needed the money) and also taking classes (that I paid for). The rest of the time was devoted to other professional development and getting ready for the next school year. I have done the math in the past and if I was being paid by the hour, and only clocking the actual hours I worked including after school and at home grading papers, creating tests, calling parents, creating lesson plans, etc. I would be making at least $20,00 more than I currently am. My other half was constantly complaining because I spent so much time (including summers) doing school things. He said I had no life outside of school because I spent 75% of my waking hours on my work. When I was describing my job description to some family members a few years ago they remarked, "It sounds like you are doing two jobs. Are they paying you more for that?" When I replied in the negative, they said, "Then you shouldn't work so hard." I would never give less than my best despite the conditions of my teaching position, but I certainly understand what those people are saying about our jobs as teachers. Uninformed persons spouting off that teachers are under-worked and overpaid might want to read some articles about why so many teachers leave the profession in the first five years. Searching under the term "teacher burnout" should yield a wealth of information. Finally for shawnsbrain - since you believe that we teachers are overpaid can I send you the bill for my teaching license, my graduate studies, and my professional development? If you can pay for that for us teachers, we might not need to take second jobs.

shawnsbrain

Sat, Oct 24, 2009 : 4:33 a.m.

csoccer, My thoughts are every bit a valid as yours. As business owner I know what it is like to work round the clock for less money than I have in the past. I know many teachers who take second jobs (working for me) in the summer and are rolling in money. Don't tell me you work 365 days a year. You know that is simply not true. If your product is so good why does your profession fight charter schools and other options? Are you afraid to operate in a competitive environment?

ConcernedTaxPayer

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:30 p.m.

Keep reading entries from teacher supporters who defend the hard working teachers... name another 'profession' that grants so many professional development days as the AAPS teachers contract calls for. Skyline HS was closed this week for a PD day and will have another one in 2 weeks (the 3rd this school semester) Sure wouldn't be hard for a business manager to find a lot of savings in the AAPS system, instead of resorting to millage increases as a source for additional funding. Superintendent Roberts - you need to start earning your salary. You represent the tax payers, not the teachers union. Bloggers have it right, especially those who are part of the 'real' economy in Michigan and whom see how every other industry handles the economic situation that Michigan faces. For the teachers to think they should be exempt and not bear a significant part of the remedy, is ludicrous. Jennifer G. is lucky she's in her final term. She and her Democratic policy makers who think more and new taxes are their solution are so out of touch that it's sad to think they won majorities in previous elections. Hopefully the tax payers get informed and make their choice known on November 3rd so we can start seeing an end to this downward spiral.

Ralph

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:26 p.m.

Next up for the guillotine: College professors, police officers, fire fighters and how about those dentists and doctors. They all make too much! Lets get them next!

Ralph

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:18 p.m.

Once the teaching staff is destroyed, then they can start on eliminating sports and busing and music. None of them are State mandated! But some of you wouldn't give a thought on spending $1,500 (or more) on season tickets for U of M football. Priorities!

larry

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:15 p.m.

$127 cut per student. $9,600 in state funds per student. 127/9600= 1.3 PERCENT That's being hit hard? I work in corporate Michigan, and we've had 30 PERCENT workforce reductions, and may lose our medical and pension benefits. And a 1.3 percent reduction is tough? I think people should get real.

Ralph

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 5:54 p.m.

For all of you who want what other have: First they came for the communists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew; Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me.

ConcernedTaxPayer

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 5:21 p.m.

Keep reading entries from teacher supporters who defend the hard working teachers... name another 'profession' that grants so many professional development days as the AAPS teachers contract calls for. Skyline HS was closed this week for a PD day and will have another one in 2 weeks (the 3rd this school semester) Sure wouldn't be hard for a business manager to find a lot of savings in the AAPS system, instead of resorting to millage increases as a source for additional funding. Superintendent Roberts - you need to start earning your salary. You represent the tax payers, not the teachers union. Bloggers have it right, especially those who are part of the 'real' economy in Michigan and whom see how every other industry handles the economic situation that Michigan faces. For the teachers to think they should be exempt and not bear a significant part of the remedy, is ludicrous. Jennifer G. is lucky she's in her final term. She and her Democratic policy makers who think more and new taxes are their solution are so out of touch that it's sad to think they won majorities in previous elections. Hopefully the tax payers get informed and make their choice known on November 3rd so we can start seeing an end to this downward spiral.

treetowncartel

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 2:19 p.m.

Thanks Dagny.

mm

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 1:50 p.m.

Could someone tell me how much tax money (local and state) was available per pupil for 2007, 2008 and 2009 and how much they project for 2010 without any increase in taxes? An what was the budget per pupil for those years and projected for 2010? Thank you.

DagnyJ

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 1:37 p.m.

treetown: Look closely at Portland before going. Awful schools, and a terrible economy. This from current residents with children who own homes.

A2Realilty

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 12:39 p.m.

Many people who are posting are pointing out that they are struggling in the current economic conditions or have recently had to deal with a pay cut or decrease in benefits. Their logic holds that since times are tough for me, they should be tough for the school system as well. Sadly, I highly doubt that when times are better for these individuals, they will reciprocate. I don't think that we will hear them say that things are great for me now, so they should be great for the school system too. I expect, instead, to hear silence from those individuals at that time. There are good suggestions in some of these posts: As a parent, I would be willing to personally pay an additional $300 per student per year. I also agree with the suggestions of eyeheartA2. There are certainly some efficienies to be gained by looking at administration costs. Unfortunately, the overall tenor of these posts is simply bitterness. It is particularly useless to have misinformation and lies spouted out such as in the posts for A Voice of Reason. The information in that post is entirely fabricated.

treetowncartel

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 12:01 p.m.

Most likely Austin Texas or Portland Oregon. I got friends who made the exodus to both places years ago and they have no regrets. This state is ready to implode, and since I won't be able to sell my house I'll just rent it out and bring the property values even further down around me.

fd2009

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:53 a.m.

I also received a voice message yesterday informing the additional cut to our area schools. The caller emphasized that not all schools in the state were cut this way. First I am frustrated by the special treatment of additional cut to our area schools, if it is indeed true, whatever the rational behind the decision. Next, since there is no end in sight for the crisis and challenges, the school board and administration need to seriously evaluate priorities of the mission of the schools and make necessary cuts no matter how hard it will be. I will vote yes for the mileages out of obligation. But I would be a lot happier to do so if the district administration takes enough measures to do more with less as most of us are doing in the current economy.

DagnyJ

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.

treetown, let us know what pastures you find. I suspect you'll be surprised when you discover that the grass only appears to be greener.

treetowncartel

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:28 a.m.

I have young kids and I am seriously thinking of leaving this state for greener pastures. I hope those opposed to quality public education are gonna be happy with the individual changing the bed pan and turning them over at the nursing home down the road.

Stuart

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:28 a.m.

Teachers don't absorb some of the blow? Districts haven't made changes in which salaries and benefits are affected? Laughable. Our district added a step A & B BEFORE step 1 on the salary schedule, so in your 3rd year of teaching you're finally making what a 1st year teacher used to. Also, most districts don't pay for years of experience anymore if you switch school districts. In my case, when I moved back to the state I was paid at step A on the salary schedule when it was actually my 11th year of teaching - a difference of "only" about 25,000 a year.

Jimmy Olsen

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:18 a.m.

I just got a 9% pay cut and my employer isn't going to buy my benefits anymore, they are going to "give" me extra money to "buy" my own. My no vote on this millage, has just turned to a HELL NO.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 11:03 a.m.

Alan Benard, I have some bad news for you. The property values in Ypsilanti tanked long ago. The Ypsilanti School District has long been plagued by financial mismanagement. They've already demonstrated that they can't handle money; giving them more will only make things worse. It sounds like you haven't checked Ann Arbor property values lately though, Alan. Ann Arbor's looking downright... affordable... these days. Here's my prediction for Ann Arbor and its school district. As it is, most (~75%) of the households in Ann Arbor don't have school-aged children. SEMCOG predicts that as time goes on, even fewer households (15%-20%) will have school aged children. Right now, the majority of your voter base doesn't receive a direct benefit from the AAPS. As more families migrate out to the townships, fewer Ann Arbor City voters will find reason to run up their property taxes to subsidize the schools for families who don't live in AA but who use the school system. Based on this forum, I'm already seeing a lot of pushback from city voters who don't want to run their property taxes up to fund a millage of questionable value and necessity. People who live in the townships have already "voted with their feet." They also don't want to put up with higher city property taxes. That's why they're out in the townships to begin with. Simultaneously, "services" like transportation will become more expensive to provide. The state has already cut funding for bus inspections, which are required by law. The price of diesel fuel - should it rise again substantially - will be crippling. At the same time the cost of providing transportation is rising, the demand for it will rise too, in part because the majority of kids live in the townships rather than in the city and in part because if the cost of diesel has risen, so has the cost of gasoline. Layer on top of that the antiquated system of roads that lack the capacity to provide efficient traffic flow and you've got real problems. The kids are in the townships; the schools are in the city, along with a bunch of cranky voters who don't want to pay higher property taxes; and there's no good way to get the kids to the schools in the morning. Something's got to give, Alan. Ann Arbor can't afford a top-tier school district when its property tax policies chase families with school-aged children out to the suburbs. They've eroded their voter base down to the people who no longer want to support that level of spending on a school system they don't benefit from.

Jimmy Olsen

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 10:45 a.m.

Hollow, "Of course teachers in Saline, Dexter, Chelsea have taken cuts. Do you think those districts are immune?" I checked with Saline, teachers had a contract extension which gave them, I believe a 2% yearly increase. No health care premium. Maybe an increase in drug co-pay. I'm still looking for facts on Dexter and Chelsea.

spaceman

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 10:34 a.m.

Good For Gov Granholm - these cuts in the school budget are long overdue. There should be no sacred cows in the budget. As far as "hurting the children" - hey parents, how about you turn off the TV and have your kids do some reading. Get a set of encyclopedias (the books, not the computer ones) and go over articles with them. Review their homework, go to teacher conferences, have them do science and art projects - etc, etc. And while your at it, pack a lunch for your own children. Better yet, teach them to pack their own lunches: PB&J, cheese on whole wheat bread, apples, carrots, cookies, etc. Hey what a concept - taking responsibility for yourself and your family. Write the governor and state legislators and tell them to NOT raise taxes - keep Michigan affordable and attractive to businesses to set up shop here and create some jobs that all these educated kids will be able to fill some day.

Basic Bob

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:57 a.m.

Welcome to the State of Entitlement. State school aid has increased by $1600 (30%) per student in the last 10 years. Who in this state is getting raises like this? Certainly not anyone I know.

DagnyJ

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:53 a.m.

I have to wonder what politics Granholm is playing here. This cut to school funding wasn't necessary, there are other places she could have cut. So why do this now? To try to force millage proposals on taxpayers? Maybe.

MjC

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:48 a.m.

Ann Arbor homeowners already generously support the A2 school system with 17 mills ($1,700 per year for the average $200,000 home). We have a new high school sitting half empty in addition to three overcrowded high schools (how does that make sense?). Don't tell me that cuts can't be made. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate! We continue to ignore the research and new technology available to assist us in better educating our children (year round school, online courses, adjusting the old routine school hours, privatizing services, school of choice competition, and so on). Can't we think out of the box without demanding money from financially strapped homeowners? Vote no on this mill. We can (and will) do better.

braggslaw

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:36 a.m.

Dotdash- sorry to worry you but you should be worried. Worried that special interest groups want to take your tax money to benefit themselves at the taxpayer's expense. I am a taxpayerm, I want accountability and good schools. I don't want an open checkbook to teachers unions. The public schools in Michigan are a mess with so many districts and layers. As a taxpayer I want a good efficient method of delivering education to my kids. I have the right to question where my taxdollars are spend. Throwing money at a broken business model never fixed anything. Reform, restructure and let parents have choice.

Alan Benard

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:10 a.m.

Ypsilivin, 10 percent of your budget is a fine amount for a capital fund to hold in reserve. All responsible businesses have capital, even nonprofits. To point to Ann Arbor's "rainy day" fund and complain that it was not yet spent when the district has cut $16 million over the past four years with little significant detriment to eduation AND then holler about fiscal irresponsiblity is just plain silly.The fund will be spent soon enough, right about the time your property values tank because the Ypsi schools are insolvent.

DonBee

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 9:02 a.m.

Lets see - Teachers are the root of all evil - I don't think so, there are far more issues than teachers and teacher salaries. (1) the college level sports programs most schools run - millions in staff costs to run them and then the coaches that are hired spend some time teaching - adding to the teacher numbers but not to the real education of the students. Administrator overload - A principle and 4 or 5 other non-teaching staff members in every elementary school - mine growing up had a part time principal (he taught 6th grade 99% of the time). Empty class room in grade school buildings - it would have been cheaper in Ann Arbor to pull 6th grade back to Elementary and 9th grade back to the middle schools and unload the high schools that way then build Skyline. Half empty buses, because each level of school wants to maintain their own levels. Lets start with NON-teaching positions and justify all of them - in every district. Some jobs could probably be done by the WISD on behalf of all the districts by 1 or 2 people rather than one in each district. Purchasing should be consoldiated at the WISD to increase volume and reduce the contract costs. In short lets move the business side of education to a larger unit and reduce the business staff - so we can support the teaching staff on the same budget. The economy has hit us all hard. My pay cut this year for my household was 50% my medical co-pays are up by 100%. I wish I could afford to pay more taxes, but I can't - more than 40% of what I bring home goes to one government unit or another in income, sales, property or other taxes. Sorry I can not vote yes, until the business side of the schools get truely efficient.

John Agno

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:51 a.m.

Perhaps, now is the time for school superintdents and school boards to "earn their keep" by cutting costs: merging noncompetitive school districts, consolidating or eliminating non essential services, and getting back to the basics of education. Hoping for a countywide 'bailout' using WISD's proposed increased taxation is only wishful thinking. Sound cost cutting action is a wiser approach.

mytwocents

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:47 a.m.

Voice of reason- My pay is exactly as it was last year. That is a 0% increase. I'm unsure of where you are getting your information. The year before, my pay increased $540 and some odd cents. This is a far cry from what you claim teachers are getting. While I think people should vote as they please, I hope decisions are made based on honest to goodness FACTS, not just claims of fact.

Basic Bob

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:45 a.m.

Yes, Ann Arbor schools are good for property values - if you are selling houses or collecting taxes. I knew when I moved here that I was paying a premium. Ann Arbor schools threw money around building a 3rd high school, even though they could not project money to operate it. As long as Community High stays open, I won't vote for a tax increase.

a2huron

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:24 a.m.

Has the teacher's union stepped forward because of this latest news and offered to open up their contracts for next year to help resolve the budget problems? If Granholm's move was pure politics (which clearly it was), and the funding levels are restored (which is a strong likelihood), then will any property tax increases be reversed? I doubt it.

A2Realilty

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:19 a.m.

I fear for the overall state of Ann Arbor. The comments made by A Voice of Reason and braggslaw only make me more worried. One of the strongest selling points of Ann Arbor is the excellent reputation of its school system. Currently, our school system is one of the major advantages that people view to moving to (or staying in) our community. As a region, we are not able to offer magnificent weather year-round or a good economic environment. If the school system is weakened, it will decrease the desire of people to move into our community and make others question if they should stay or move away. The result of this is a further depression of home values. Having a strong school system is a necessity for both our children's education (and future) and our property values. Put in a different light, if you own a house that is worth $150,000 currently, you might pay an extra $300 in taxes per year for the school system. Over ten years, that would be $3,000. If your house appreciates an extra 0.25% annually because of the attraction of a strong school system, then your property value will increase by $375 per year or $3,750 per year. In short, if you are a parent, if you care about the education of the next generation, or if you are a property owner in Ann Arbor, then you should absolutely vote for the millage.

dotdash

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:12 a.m.

I continue to be shocked by the amount of anger out there directed at teachers. Teachers are our neighbors, they shop in our stores, they pay taxes. When anyone wants to describe a good middle-class neighborhood they say that teachers and doctors and firefighters live there. They are part of our community. I would ask everyone with anger about tax-funded pay issues to call their congresspeople in Washington to complain about financial sector salaries -- now THERE is some overpayment! And you, as taxpayers, continue to fund those multi-*million* dollars salaries. Don't waste your time complaining about your neighbors -- complain about something actually grievous.

dotdash

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:06 a.m.

As a parent of a public school child, I do recognize and appreciate the tax dollars that non-parents add to the school district. Thank you all. Personally, I would not mind paying the $300 that the state of Michigan is cutting (and I urge all parents to contribute that $300 to the AA Education Foundation). Unfortunately, not all parents are able to do that, and those parents are not evenly divided throughout the district or state. So maybe my school can raise money to fill the gap, who knows, but there are some schools that don't have a prayer of doing that. We have government funding of education because we (as a country) consider education important enough not to be dependent on the ability of the parents to pay. I agree that if the public schools fall to a certain level (too many kids in a class is a big red flag for parents), then those who can will send their kids to private schools. That will leave the public schools even poorer and with a higher percentage of hard-to-teach kids. A big step on the way downhill.

limmy

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:01 a.m.

The purpose of taxes is to provide the services that we as a society value. If we want good educational opportunities, we have to pay for them. Income taxes need to be raised at the state level to restore the funding for the schools.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 8:01 a.m.

Alan Benard, $28 million is a huge rainy day fund. That represents $28 million that the state provided for Ann Arbor, which the district elected not to spend on their students in the years the funding was provided. The mere fact that Ann Arbor can sock away $28 million is a major admission that AAPS is over funded. Spend down the rainy day fund now (yes, AAPS... it's raining) and figure out how to live with less in the future. As for "my" school district, it's "mine" in name only. I get nothing from it other than a tax bill. (I opted for true choice in education and send my children to a private school.) My point, Alan, is that the schools aren't destitute. Their administrators are simply locked into a culture of entitlement that prevents them from looking at their other options. If you were going to design a system of education today knowing what you know right now, would your system look like the one we have in place? Probably not. It's time to put everything back on the table and rethink what we're doing with public education. Simply putting your bowl out and saying "More please!" isn't going to cut it anymore. We the taxpayers have nothing more to give.

Ann Arbor Resident

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:57 a.m.

In my previos post, near the end of the first paragarph, it should read "now larger", not "not larger"

Ann Arbor Resident

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:54 a.m.

This hit on school funding and the projection that it will occur next year is serious. This should finally be a wake-up call to our school administrators, city government and residents. Everyone needs to realize we are in the midst of a financial crisis and we can probably expect to see financial issues in other areas of government. If you read newspapers coverning other states you would know that these problems are not unique to Michigan. It is also happening in private industry where layoffs, hiring freezes, pay cuts and benefit cuts are the norm. We can try to tax our way out of them or can try to adjust our spending. It is tempting to support the millage proposal, especially since the state funding cuts are not larger than were anticipated, but what road does this lead us on? What happens when property taxes take a further dip, outside of "forecast decreases"? Do we put another millage on the ballot to avoid further layoff of police officers and fighters? Do we put another millage on the ballot to build a new library? Do we put another millage on the ballot to mow sports fields? Unfortunately, I believe the severe financial crisis requires all of the state's school districts to make deep cuts in programs and staffing. The city governments MUST find a way to realign their spending to cover essential services while eliminating luxuries (public art, parking structures, football teams, etc.). Taxing our way out of the eductation funding problem starts us down a slippery slope.

hollow

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:49 a.m.

Jimmy Olsen - Of course teachers in Saline, Dexter, Chelsea have taken cuts. Do you think those districts are immune? How clueless and selfish can people be? It is comical that 15 years ago so many college students were dissuaded from education because the public perception was "teachers don't make any money..." How perception has changed without salaries increasing. Support the millage for the youth of our county.

Steve

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:25 a.m.

Several of the comments on this story ring of some desperation in a mounting crisis. To be up-front, I am biased towards public service and view teachers as one of the most valuable community assets on the planet. Im married to a teacher, a +20 year veteran one of the hardest working persons Ive ever known. I know from personal experience that most teachers work an exhaustive schedule, are not working short work-days, and spend considerable time, energy and money in the summer preparing for the next school year. I support teachers collective bargaining rights there is reason to believe that suspension of collective bargaining rights and/or agreements will result in arbitrary treatment of teachers by administrators and Board members just as in the old days when teachers could be fired for their political affiliations and religious beliefs, and their activities outside of school, or fired for speaking-up and telling truth-to-power. Those days are only a few decades ago, still fresh in my mind. My suggestion for the current crisis is to support the millage one way we have of making a local decision now that almost all of the power is in the hands of state government. I also think the Governor and state legislature need to take-up the early retirement incentive proposed legislations from last spring or some variation of it.

Jimmy Olsen

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:02 a.m.

Alan, The NEA speaks on a nationwide problem. We're here in Michigan - the most economically depressed state in the nation. Our teachers (especially locally) don't come close to those conditions that the NEA talks about. Remember ladies and gentlemen, this is a COUNTY wide millage. Most of the examples of teachers "giving up" pay, benefits etc. have been for AAPS. Take a look at the other districts. The near bankrupt ones, of course are thinner, but what about Chelsea, Dexter and Saline? What cuts have those teachers taken lately? The bigger question is what would they be willing to do IF the millage doesn't pass? They will sacrifice the last hired teachers in a minute to save their tenured-butts, accept the increased class sizes (yet, complain about it) and continue their entitlement attitude about benefits. How about a chart with average salary by district, benefit costs by district, who is paying premium, who is not - what deductibles are - what co-pays are - David Jesse - can you gather this? The truth will be eye-opening......

AAW

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 7:01 a.m.

Well I work for one of the local district it is easy for those who don't know what is happening with our benefits to make judgements. Here is a question for you all, starting in January 2010 we will be going from $40 to $60 for brand name prescribtions and then $10 to $20 for non-brand name prescribtions. Is that enough for us to pay or should we have to pay more? I am just graeful to have the coverage and a job. Thats not including what we will have to pay for that coverage. Schools are in the same place that everyone else is with the cost of benefits. But the story isn't about the benefits for the staff it is about cutting funding for the whole school programs. What is the answer, I for one don't know.

braggslaw

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:54 a.m.

Csoccer, I am glad you enjoy your job, BUT I am a XXX and I work tons of hours and I feel I should get paid more. I do not even like my job but I believe it provides greater value than anyone else's job, therefore I believe I should get paid more, be protected from economic downturns etc. Everybody believes they should get paid more, everybody believes that their job is important... only market forces are objective. Teachers provide a service, as a parent I would like more choice and I believe the state should allow parents to break the public monopoly.

OverTaxed

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:47 a.m.

I have a suggestion to the Governor's challenge to local communities in raising money for the recent school cuts. Parents need to step up for the proper educating of their own children. I think they should be made to pay a portion of eduction costs if they want better education. They have a vested interest, it's their child. In Ann Arbor, my taxes pay $9,300 for each child, when I do not have any children. I do not think $300 is too much to ask a parent to pay for their own child's education, since they are recieving the benefits. College is like that, maybe K-12 should start that policy. The $300 is probably less than the childs cell phone bill for the year. Parents need to make wise choices in their daily lives for their family.

csoccer

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:26 a.m.

Shawnsbrain, please educate yourself before you start spewing nonsense out to the rest of the world. I am a teacher and I work extremely hard all, everyday, 365 days a year. It is the hardest job I have ever had, and the most rewarding. Clearly, you are not a teacher. Secondly, the AAPS teacher to student ratio looks that high because we have special education departments, TAs, and special programs for struggling students. Do you want to take those programs away? In my classroom, I have thirty students per class period. I would like to see you last one day in my shoes!

braggslaw

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:21 a.m.

Steven, The non-profit designation is meaningless. The organizations are all about providing jobs from tax-payers. The job-works programs are the point, not profits. I found that extremely disingenuous. Ultimately I want consumer forces involved instead of union labor hall practices.

braggslaw

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 6:19 a.m.

Alan, No I don't pull anything anywhere. There is an oversupply of teachers in Michiganm, supply far outweight demand. Teachers in Michigan are also already highly paid compared to other states. SO yes I do not believe teachers will leave if their co-pays go up.

Jack Panitch

Fri, Oct 23, 2009 : 1:58 a.m.

Steven Norton: Although I support your position, I need to correct the record. The Angell PTO voted to remain neutral before any pressure was ever applied, and the "pressure" did not come in the form of any heavy-handed tactics. Rather, it came in the form of some extremely puerile behavior that cheapened our effort to provide information to our constituents to make their own decision. The Angell PTO's decision to remain neutral on the issue stemmed from our belief that we represent all our constituents and that our election, prior to the time this issue was on anybody's radar screen, did not amount to a mandate.

OverTaxed

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 11:44 p.m.

I have the answer, parents make up the difference for their kids that the State will cut. Think of it, only $300 for each child you have, to give them a good education. It's cheaper than their yearly cell bill. Parents, now it's time to step up. You may have to give up Starbuck coffee to cover it. I do not have children and already pay for yours, don't come to me now. Ann Arbor loves socialism when it comes to healthcare, giving my taxes away, etc. If other school districts are hurting in Michigan, the rich districts should give to the poor districts until everyone is even. All employees should cut pay and benefits to become equal.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 11:04 p.m.

Oh, my. The made-up "facts" are flying fast and furious tonight. But I'd like to specifically address the claims by "A Voice of Reason," who does not live up to the name. The scale of the falsehoods is quite astounding. The MEA is not spending $2 million on this campaign. I'm the campaign manager for the Citizens Millage Committee, which is a true grassroots effort to pass the millage in AAPS. Our budget, which will be laid bare in campaign finance filings, is barely one hundredth of this amount, and most of that came from small donations from individuals of all stripes: parents, business people, seniors, and (yes) teachers. If anyone is spending that kind of money, I sure haven't seen it on the "vote yes" side. AAPS teachers have not been getting anywhere near the increases described. The "step" increases for years of service and advanced education now only apply to half of the teaching staff; the rest have reached their maximum. Teachers averaged less than 1.5% per year in the last contract, and get no increase in the new one. AAPS contributions to teacher health benefits has been capped for more than 3 years, with a limit to how much it rises. The balance is paid out of pocket by the teachers. Teachers choose from a menu of health plans, which require varying levels of employee contributions. (The MESSA plans are on the high end, and require employee contributions of thousands of dollars a year.) The "$1600" figure might bear a slight resemblance to the amount of the per pupil allowance that is used to pay for all benefits, including required contributions to the state retirement system. But it has nothing to do with what MESSA does or does not add to the base cost of BCBS insurance. But I take particular exception to the notion that some AAPS PTOs have had the "courage" to stay neutral. The volunteers who spend their time helping the kids and their school by working for the PTO/PTSO are generally not prepared to be in the middle of a political fire fight. The decision of the Angell and Tappan PT(S)Os to remain neutral came only after angry and completely baseless accusations from a handful of people that discussing or supporting the millage would be illegal for PTOs. The uproar came complete with threats of legal action. All of this was totally without foundation and unjustified, but it did succeed in dampening any support these organizations might have given to the millage effort. Several other PTOs have endorsed the millage, and I do not believe it is because they "lack" courage - rather the opposite, given the treatment their colleagues have received at the hands of millage opponents. Finally, I should also say that, wearing another hat, I am a founder of the parent group Michigan Parents for Schools, which launched an effort called "Project Washtenaw" this spring. Our effort was to focus on the challenges faced by the diverse school districts in Washtenaw County as a way of illustrating the problems faced by schools around the state. We also happen to live here. Michigan Parents for Schools is a non-profit public interest advocacy group, led by a board of directors who are all parents and none of whom happen to be AAPS (or public school) teachers. To say that this is some kind of plot by the MEA is so divorced from reality that words fail me. Our community faces serious issues, and while I strongly support the millage I acknowledge that this is not an easy choice and that my fellow citizens will have concerns. That is what we are trying to address. But to have these kind of baseless accusations appearing here and in other blogs simply cheapens the debate and shows disrespect for the people of our community. Steven Norton Campaign Manager Ann Arbor Citizens Millage Committee

shawnsbrain

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:48 p.m.

Our teachers are the most educated and experienced ever? Oh C'mon rest it. Our teachers are the most overpaid and underworked ever!! Short daily hours, a short year, great benefits, union protection, and public sympathy. I wish I had it so easy!!

Alan Benard

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:38 p.m.

@ braggslaw: I also do not believe teachers will leave their jobs or abandon their profession so there is elasticity. You really do just pull this stuff out of your hind end, don't ya?http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/08/AR2006050801344.htmlwashingtonpost.com > Education Half of Teachers Quit in 5 YearsWorking Conditions, Low Salaries CitedAccording to a new study from the National Education Association, a teachers union, half of new U.S. teachers are likely to quit within the first five years because of poor working conditions and low salaries. "We must face the fact that although our current teachers are the most educated and most experienced ever, there are still too many teachers leaving the profession too early, not enough people becoming teachers and not enough diversity in the profession," NEA President Reg Weaver said in a statement. Braggslaw, just admit that you are an extremist individualist prejudiced against any sort of collective action and we'll stop listening to you.

Alan Benard

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:32 p.m.

@ Ypsilivn: Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Your school district already spent its rainy day fund. Try again. Ann Arbor has $28 million. Projections created before these two cuts had it running out in three years with the millage. Now I give it nine months, tops. You folks really do not wish to see the reality here. It is astonishing.

Alan Benard

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:29 p.m.

The more you cut, the more parents leave for private schools and homeschooling. The more parents leave, the lower your headcount, the smaller your state funding.The smaller your revenue, the more you cut. The more you cut, the more parents leave for private schools and homeschooling. Saying we should cut our way out of this is really saying, "Destroy public education."

boudreau

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:28 p.m.

Ok let me make sure i've got this right... First we move the 9th graders over to huron-pioneer. and then we spend all that money to upgrade them due to no room. example we add a football stadium to huron.. then we need a new high school due to no room at these to schools.. then we spend 80 plus mil, which cost more due to what ever.... then it sit for a year with just 9th graders??? and now you want to raise taxes for all this... sure.................. and people in hell want ice water..

shawnsbrain

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:23 p.m.

The schools have money coming out of their ears. Teachers only work nine months of the year and student ratios are way to low. Multiple days off during the school year only add to the problem. Squash the NTEU and you'll have a good start on the problem.

A Voice of Reason

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:08 p.m.

1200 teachers and 16500 students, you do the math about 16 to 1. Where are all these teachers?

A Voice of Reason

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 10:07 p.m.

Teachers get an automatic 7% pay raise every year plus a cost of living adjustment of 4%. So, that is 11% total. When they say they did not get a pay raise this year, this only includes a cost of living increase, which the COL did not go up so, they have given nothing. ARE YOU GETTING BETWEEN 7-11%raise a year? Secondly, until we can purchase BCBSM insurance directly from Blue Cross and not from the MEA (who marks it up $1600 per teacher) and uses the money to lobby to raise millages and stacks school boards with only those who are willng to give the union everything they want, I am not interested in hearing a cry for help from the school district. We have great teachers and I am sure they would love that $1600 in their pay checks. Also, the MEA has spent 2million on an extensive grassroots effort to lobby for this millage. I see DEER IN THE HEAD LIGHT Parents thinking they are helping out their children and do not even question what they are doing, the numbers, etc. to promote this Millage. ONLY TWO SCHOOLS--Tappan and Angell had the courage to stay neutral and not endorse the millage. WAKE UP ANN ARBOR, YOU ARE PART OF A PLAN FOR THE STATE OF MICHIGAN CALLED PROJECT WASHTENAW FOR THE MEA AND IT IS BEING TESTED ON YOU. Where are the people who question the government and its motives? Todd Roberts is spending his time meeting with every group in town and guess, no one endorses the millage. Also, the thug like tatics are school board is using as well as Todd Roberts to scare teacher and our citizens is unbelieveable. Our wonderful school board negotiated a contract we cannot afford. This happened in Brighton and the citizens voted down the millage and guess what, Brighton school board had to go back ate redo their contacts with the union. VOTE NO VOTE NO VOTE NO--

Jerome

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:58 p.m.

What's the teacher/administrator ratio?

Life in Ypsi

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:50 p.m.

I'm voting no on the school millage. Times are tight and people can barely afford their homes. Plus it's time for the three school districts in Ypsi to consolidate. Of course that will never happen unless the state forces it because 1) administrators do not want to give up power. 2) Many people move away from Ypsi and Willow Run neighborhoods to have their children attend Lincoln and would probably be very upset they now have to consolidate with the very people they wanted to get away from.

mytwocents

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:48 p.m.

I can't help but shake my head when I read some of these comments. There seems to be this perception that teacher wages and benefits never get touched. Simply NOT true. Teachers and support staff in most area districts have taken pay cuts, renegotiated wages, increased RX co-pays, and increased deductibles. I've also watched district employees and students work hard to save money on anything possible! "Bargain" shopping for supplies, campaigns to conserve energy, and even cutting positions. I encourage community members to do their own investigating and find out how districts are working to be more efficient and cut costs, not just rely on the old standard answer that teachers/ unions never take a cut and we must be to blame.

taktix

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:16 p.m.

Thank you for your passionate debate. As a 20 year teaching veteran in rural and urban America, I am frustrated as well. Most teachers do devote everything they have to their careers. In many cases they are forced to give too much, leaving an empty shell for family and friends. There must be a way to support out teachers and our kids as well. I don't think we have been creative enough in our solutions. Look to Asia, look to Britain: look far and wide, pilot tons of new ways to keep quality programs, then keep what works best. This is America: yes, we can!

jhunsberger

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:10 p.m.

I will vote for the millage. The idea that we should take from the very peaple that we depend on day to day to care for our childred to me is just stupid. As to the rainy day fund, I'm sure that that ship has done sailed.

braggslaw

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 9:06 p.m.

It has nothing to do with what I want. It has everything to do with the financial realities that the state and schools are facing. Businesses do not cut services to their customers, they reduce costs usually through headcount reduction and pay cuts. I see no reason for teachers to be immune. I also do not believe teachers will leave their jobs or abandon their profession so there is elasticity. Why should students suffer to maintain benefits for teachers?

BenWoodruff

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 8:59 p.m.

Braggslaw, My wife is a teacher, has a master's degree with more credits, and she took a $3000.00 pay cut this year as well as increased co-pay and higher pharmacy costs. How much more you want the person teaching your kid to give up?

braggslaw

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 8:32 p.m.

I took a pay cut, my co-pays are higher etc because my companies revenue dropped. Why doesn't the same rational actions happen with teachers? Why do we first cut services to kids? Why are teachers immune to economic realities? Eliminating MESSA an increasing co-pays for teachers would eliminate the revenue gap.

YpsiLivin

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 8:23 p.m.

Methinks its time for the local school districts to look at cracking into their "rainy day" funds. Some of our schools have enormous stashes of cash just sitting there "in case of emergency." It's time for the districts to show exactly how much they have socked away and under what circumstances they would actually consider using it. Unfortunately, the fact that they can set aside millions of unspent dollars from previous funding years supports the notion that the districts aren't quite as poor as they would lead one to believe. I won't consider voting for a millage until the rainy day funds are exhausted.

Roger

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 8:21 p.m.

While I am not excited about these further cuts, I came home to a robo caller phone message from an "irate taxpayer." The nameless voice continued to claim that it was John Cherry, and Jennifer Granholm (in that order because someone is running for governor soon...) that caused this mess. This was a thinly veiled Republican attack on a beleaguered executive branch. Not that they are without fault, but you can't continue to cut all income, and give your friends big tax breaks, then blame the person voted in to replace you. In politics, the truth is just another casualty, like our schools.

Andrew Thomas

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:56 p.m.

Schooldude -- During the seven years my son has been attending Ann Arbor Public Schools, I have not encountered a single "crappy teacher". For that matter, I have not expereienced a single mediocre or complacent teacher. I have, on the other hand, experienced many, many highly talented, kind, enthusiastic and dedicated teachers who not only did a great job during the school day, but made themselves available evenings and weekends whenever needed. I'm sure there are a few poor performers out there -- there are in any organization -- but to suggest we can get out of this crisis simply by eliminating these poor performers is ridiculous.

Jason

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:52 p.m.

now thank you for those that voted for our gov granholm I didnt vote for her but most of you all voted for her still Ann Arbor Schools are better than some other school districts here in MI.

schooldude

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:39 p.m.

I have an idea...how about we stop using outdated teacher unions. We layoff teachers that suck, and hire cheaper teachers willing to go the extra mile. Then everybody wins...except for of course crappy teachers who are protected by outdated unions.

JonesM

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:23 p.m.

If everything is on the table, then how about cutting benefit packages? Why do the kids always have to be the first to suffer? Oh, that's right. If it looks like the kids are going to suffer, we might agree to higher taxes. What Granholm is doing is terrible, but it only strengthens my conviction that at some point, we have to say enough is enough. Government needs to learn to live within its means. VOTE NO to more taxes.

Julie

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:17 p.m.

Good grief, it just keeps getting worse! These are our KIDS! And our community. Ugh.

msp

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7:10 p.m.

We cant simply cut our way out of this depression. We have to invest in creating future jobs and skilled workers, and education has always been the best investment. We need to tell Republican Senator Mike Bishop that we literally cant afford his rigid obsession with tax cuts.

schoolsmuse

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 7 p.m.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

braggslaw

Thu, Oct 22, 2009 : 6:41 p.m.

There is a way for school systems to absorb the blow, reopen the teacher contracts and cut benefits.