Wait-listed applicants unlikely to gain entry to University of Michigan
What's more likely: Getting plucked from the University of Michigan wait-list or finding a needle in a haystack?
It depends on how large that haystack is.
Thousands of University of Michigan freshmen flock to hundreds of booths and tables set up on the UM Diag by various campus student groups and university departments at the start of last year's school year.
Photo by Trisha Paul
That year 39,584 students applied for entry into U-M's freshman class. Of those applicants, 16,073 students were admitted and 14,659 were offered a spot on the waiting list. Of the 4,498 students who accepted a spot, just 42 got in.
"Maybe they're kind of hedging their bets a little bit," said Pioneer High School records clerk Ellen Marshall. She said that placing "close to a third" of applicants on a waiting list is unusual. "It seems like a lot to me."
The year before, for entry into the 2010-2011 academic year, 9,409 students were offered a place on the waiting list, 3,724 opted to be listed and 79 were admitted.
U-M hasn't yet made the total number of applicants wait-listed this year publicly available. The school has received at least 42,000 applicants, a school record, and is aiming for a freshman class size of roughly 5,900.
The school begins to select students from the wait list on May 1, the day accepted students must turn in their deposit or forfeit their acceptance.
Marshall has counseled hundreds of students who were deferred or placed on U-M's waiting list and then rejected later.
"They're just desolate," Marshall said.
"I feel bad for them because growing up in this town it's really hard not to be accepted by the university that they consider part of their lives," she said, adding that the feeling of rejection is compounded when many of their friends and fellow students receive acceptance letters. "Kids are broken up when it happens."
Marshall and the U-M admissions office advise applicants placed on a waiting list to consider other options. Admissions counselors welcome applicants to send supplemental letters detailing second-semester senior year grades and accomplishments, but warn them that they should keep their options open.
"The number of students taken from the wait-list is determined by the number of people who pay their enrollment deposits after May 1st," said Ted Spencer, executive director of U-M's office of undergraduate admissions. "If the number is less than we predicted, then we take more students from the wait-list; if it is more than we predicted, then we don't take any or only a few."
Nonetheless, many wait-listed students still hold out hope for entry.
"A lot of wait-listed students will want to come in and talk about their options" with an admissions counselor, said Molly Cravens, a U-M senior and campus tour guide who regularly interacts with wait-listed students.
Recently one wait-listed student reprised a Michael Jackson song into a ballad to U-M and sent a video of his performance to U-M admissions counselors.
Many applicants who are wait-listed will apply to U-M again after spending their freshman year at another four-year university or community college.
U-M admissions officials say that when the university plucks students from the wait-list, it does so strategically in order to achieve a mix of geographic and academic diversity.
"The top admissions priority is to assemble the best possible entering class, whose members are prepared to thrive at and contribute to the university community during their years here," Spencer said. "The wait-list complements that process by helping us shape the class and ensure that enrollment class goals are met, rather than exceeded."
This article has been updated to note Ellen Marshall's correct title at Pioneer High School. Kellie Woodhouse covers higher education for AnnArbor.com. Reach her at kelliewoodhouse@annarbor.com or 734-623-4602 and follow her on twitter.
Comments
Dcam
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 3:30 p.m.
January 5, 1870 Resolved: That the Board of Regents recognize the right of every resident of Michigan to the enjoyment of the privileges afforded by the University, and that no rule exists in any of the University statutes for the exclusion of any person from the University who possesses the requisite literary and moral qualifications. Wilfred Shaw. The University of Michigan. The times have changed, of course, and what was once recognized is no longer even seen.
Kara H
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 8:57 p.m.
"who possesses the requisite literary and moral qualifications." Literary qualifications were then and remain high now.
Willow
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.
While I agree that the number on the wait list seems excessive, these students elected to be on it. As someone else pointed out, these talented students have many other options. Also if a student really wants to come to Michigan, transferring in or applying for admittance in January are viable options as some do graduate early/midyear or leave. Here is a link to the profile of the 2011 undergraduate class: http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/about-our-applicants The salient points are 66% of those accepted and matriculated were Michigan residents, 4% were international students. (Back in the 60's and 70's (and maybe the 80's, the out-of-state percentage was about 40%.) Michigan receives a relatively small % of their funds from the state. The University was built on land the it owned and existed before Michigan became a state. This differs from Michigan State which was created as a land grant institution. The rules governing a land grant institution originally meant it must accept all in-state applicants with a high school diploma. Obviously MSU cannot accommodate everyone who applies, but does explain why they are overwhelmingly in-state residents.
observer
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:50 p.m.
but the international and out of state students will........
a2xarob
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:53 p.m.
According to a fairly well-respected evaluation of public universities, U of M is ranked fourth in the country. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public With in-state tuition of around $12,000/year at U of M compared to between $40,000 and $50,000 at most highly-ranked private colleges, this is a very good value for academically talented Michigan students. I think it's important to note that not all Michigan students who would like to go to U of M would be able to compete at the required level.
a2girl
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:55 p.m.
A2Comments, ou have a point, but what exactly is that "valuable experience" that your child is missing out on? Historically, dormitories were designed to provide students with inexpensive housing. That is no longer the case. Given the debt that students and their parents are incurring, and the increase in tuition cost, it seems to be common sense to think differently about the "college experience." If you have a child entering college this fall, they were likely born around 1994. I am willing to bet that you and most people in your position, including some that are considered upper income earners, don't have enough to pay for four years of tuition without taking out loans. Yes we knew college was going to be expensive, but it is still more expensive than most financial planners predicted. I would rather my child graduate with no debt and miss out on, let me see....problem roommates, uncomfortable living conditions, bad dorm food, to name a few....After all, what is important here? An education? Maybe an extra year for a dual major? How about a year abroad? I would hope that my children have their priorities straight and if they don't, maybe they are not ready for a "university experience".
A2comments
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:16 p.m.
Parents considering having their children commute to U of M to save money need to realize that their child will miss out on a very valuable experience. We moved back her half way through are oldest's U of M attendance and he continued to liveboff campus and not at home as our youngest is now doing. The size of the waitlist seems excessive
a2girl
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 8:52 p.m.
I think a lot of local tax paying parents (who are trying to keep their kids from incurring absurd amounts of debt to pay for undergraduate school) would welcome a program at U of M that takes a preset number of incoming freshman that are not offered housing. It would probably be reasonably competitive to gain admission and could do a lot to promote a positive relationship (and one that is not about sports) between the University and locals who support the University with their income taxes AND property taxes.
djacks24
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 7:51 p.m.
Its a public university partially funded by our tax dollars. Just like the in state tuition is lower, there should be preference to accept only in-state students. It really doesn't matter how many students are foreign/out of state. Everyone of the out of state students is taking a spot that an in-state student did not get. This goes not only for UM but every public university. If that doesn't suit them they can stop accepting state funds and become a private university.
Kara H
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 9:25 p.m.
It's not all about athletics. Spoken like a non-UM student/grad/staff. Sorry cutting edge research doesn't have good TV ratings for you to see, but the vast vast majority of the U budget, staff, landmass even is non-athletic and is fully academic. Re qualified MI students, sadly maybe not. Article: In college readiness, Michigan falls short http://www.mlive.com/education/index.ssf/2012/05/in_college_readiness_michigan_1.html
djacks24
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:57 p.m.
Its all about getting the best athletes (money) and not the best and brightest students. The faculty can be world class and there are enough good students form all over the state that can be and should be accepted should they choose to go. any spots left over after the in state students are situated can go to the best and brightest out of state students.
Kara H
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:30 p.m.
The key phrase there is "partially funded." UM is majority populated by Michigan residents, but taking the best students from across the country and across the world in some cases is part of what makes it the elite university it is. It's kind of ironic when complain about wanting to get into an institution because it's so high caliber and then propose "fixes" that would undermine that very thing. It's not actually a good thing to be so tribal and have students with no exposure to people from other countries or even states, as you would have it. College is an ideal time for students to broaden their world. Why would you want to shut that down?
slave2work
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 8:11 p.m.
AMEN!!
Tru2Blu76
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:18 p.m.
I've always "loved" the University of Michigan and have family who think of U of M with high regard. So don't get me wrong when I say that I think this real problem for so many worthy kids and their parents is probably due to: too much success - from U of M's constant and clever self-promotion. Look at the world rankings of 400 universities: you see U of M is usually around 18th. But Michigan State is usually ranked below 80th. That right there suggests that what should be done is to bring Michigan State's academic reputation up to where it's comparable to Michigan's. What would be harder: expanding U of M by (another) 50% or bringing the other existing (respectable) top state U up to the level of Michigan? It's "jealousy" in part which ends up hurting MSU. I've always admired U of M most and of course I'm a lifelong Wolverines football fan. But I see the clamoring for state funds and other "competitions" and it almost always ends up with MSU not getting the support a MICHIGAN university deserves. We can play at "hating each other" during football season - that's just for entertainment. But in the end, we are or should be far more interested in seeing both Michigan and Michigan State up there together. That helps our whole state: there's no question about it. And - maybe more important: having two top universities would serve to cut down on the painful disappointment too many families experience during every admissions season. Go Michigan!!
SemperFi
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:52 p.m.
trespass- I'm sure that you are very proud of your family's place in the history of teaching at institutions of academic research, but if you did teach at UM or worked in a research laboratory there, then you would know about the UROP program. Its been in existence since 1989 and has grown successfully every year. Your assertion that "few undergraduate students work in research laboratories" is still wrong and still unsubstantiated. And you have still not offered any evidence for your statement.
trespass
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:45 p.m.
@SemperFi- Since I have taught at research universities for 30 years, including UM, both of my parents taught at research universities for more than 40 years each and my brother and sister teach at research universities, I think I have some idea about how research universities work. What experience do you have teaching at a research university?
SemperFi
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 7:44 p.m.
@trepass: With a very little bit of research on your own, you would have found that a single program at UM (UROP) currently has approximately 1100 freshman and sophomores and over 700 faculty researchers that are engaged in research partnerships. Juniors and seniors have very good chance of working with researchers if they have an interest in doing that. The reason rankings are biased toward research universities is because these researchers, specialists in their fields, very often teach undergraduate courses and are available to undergraduates through numerous venues. You're shooting from the hip with no proof of your assertions, just hearsay and innuendo.
Mike
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:53 p.m.
Arguably, it may not increase teaching quality that much, but it would certainly attract better students.
trespass
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:37 p.m.
Rankings are biased for research universities but research activities rarely contribute to undergraduate education. Funded research faculty rarely teach undergraduates and relatively few undergraduate students work in research laboratories. Thus, increasing MSU's ranking would probably have very little affect on the quality of undergraduate teaching. Hiring more teaching faculty and decreasing class size would be a better investment at MSU.
The Black Stallion3
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:58 p.m.
Thank you A2.com....I appreciate your reply
Tony Dearing
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:33 p.m.
We were glad to address this off-line. You are always welcome to ask for an explanation of a moderating decision. All we request is that you either do so by emailing me directly, or posting your inquiry at this link, rather than on the story: http://www.annarbor.com/about/annarborcom-conversation-guidelines-comment-moderation/
YpsiLivin
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:44 p.m.
It seems like the University ought to have a better way to determine who is most likely to enroll if admitted. Offering admission to 16,000+prospects to get 6,000 confirmed admits seems wasteful all the way around. With regard to the wait list, limit it to 100 names. Historically, when was the last time more than 100 people were admitted from the WL anyway? If one class ends up "short" of the desired target census after having gone through all of the wait-listed students, admit more transfer students to make up the balance.
YpsiLivin
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:25 p.m.
Kara, The University is under no obligation to change its waitlist policy, but having a waitlist that is nearly three times the length of the admit list is (at best) dishonest. The University should be honest about the fact that a waitlisted student has virtually no chance of being admitted and that being placed on the waitlist is tantamount to being denied admission. If the U were more up front about the meaning of its "waitlisted" status, students on the list wouldn't be making videos while laboring under the impression that they actually had a shot at being here in the Fall.
Kara H
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 7:35 p.m.
Unlikely. But either way, I don't think the University is unhappy with the process and has no reason to want to change it.
YpsiLivin
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:15 p.m.
I think that the University could tailor the admissions process to discourage applications from students who apply to every school they've ever heard of but have no real preference about where they end up or what they study. The student who sends out 21 applications is being neither selective nor realistic about his/her college options, but that shouldn't prevent the University from actively recruiting the incoming class it is looking for.
Kara H
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:01 p.m.
UM is under no obligation to limit the waitlist and states very clearly to those on it that admission is unlikely. So stories like this are actually good, in order to help reinforce that point with parents and perhaps students. I suspect that UM allows the waitlist to be large because as students drop out of the entry process, they then go through the waitlist, not necessarily in any order (as there is no order, it's not a lottery), but to fill specific vacancies left by the originally accepted students--like students applying to specific programs like engineering vs LSA vs music, or from specific locations like in-state vs out-state. The article seems to indicate that as well.
bhall
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:25 p.m.
Can you figure out what an 18 year old kid is going to do? Me neither....
Ralph
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:37 p.m.
Go some place else!!! Ah yes, community college - not excellent but just good enough.
Ralph
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:35 p.m.
Oh the humanity!
jns131
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.
Mine plans on doing 2 years at a community college . This will save us money.
djacks24
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:48 p.m.
That's exactly what I did. Saved me a ton of money. Of course this was before Washtenaw was so overbooked (but was still pretty full). The only frustrating thing about doing this is if you plan on taking spring/summer courses to get done faster (or at least keep going at a faster pace because you can only attend part-time) WCCs spring/summer offerings are a joke. They might as well close down during the spring/summer. I still cannot understand that with the demand they have? But anyhow, I transferred to EMU to graduate. My GPA was high enough I had my pick of either UM or EMU. Since I was commuting after work to classes in the evening, EMU worked much better for me. I received a great education also.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:07 p.m.
That is a good move and it is what my boyfriend is doing before transferring into EMU. He has discovered that the CCs are filled to the brim though and some programs have waiting lists.
A Voice of Reason
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.
Again, Michigan has reduced its freshman class this year by almost 1000 students (due to dorm renovations). It seems that they could admit freshman that could commute to school for 1 year.
Feat of Clay
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:47 p.m.
Clarification: U-M hopes to enroll the same size class it has been trying to enroll in recent years. It seems "smaller" because the target was exceeded unexpectedly the prior few years. It isn't a just matter of residence hall space (that could be solved by having freshman live off campus, as you correctly point out). Larger freshman classes make it hard for U-M to offer enough buses, enough courses, etc. And they can't just hire more instructors to fix that issue, because for some classes with labs requiring particular facilities (Physics, Chemistry are two examples) there is a hard cap on how many people you can fit. If U-M wants to have bigger freshman classes, it would have to make some pretty big changes. With Michigan's population falling, and other public universities in Michigan having spaces going unfilled, would this be a good investment of resources? That would be a Regent-level question.
Kara H
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:31 p.m.
In UM admissions, it's important not to confuse the various admissions streams. UM-AA has an undergrad population somewhere around 27,000 and a grad population around 15,000. At the undergrad level UM says 66% are Michigan residents and a very small percentage are foreign residents. It's at the graduate level that you see a rise (though still a small percentage of the total student population) in foreign residents as students. For freshmen wanting to enter, it's very very competitive and many more are turned away than make it in, without raising the specter of those darn foreigners takin' all our kids spots. UM also switched to the "common app" application format (which allows students to apply to multiple universities with the same app) last year and had already been receiving a record number of admission applications for several years before that. Fortunately Michigan taxpayers contribute to a broad range of very good state universities that provide additional options for incoming freshmen to pursue even if they don't make it into UM.
Psudolus
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:23 p.m.
And of those who gain admission, 5% will be from the state of Michigan, 20 percent will be from Chicago, New York or New Jersey and 75% will be foreign students.
SemperFi
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 8:03 p.m.
I'd like to see where Psudolus is getting the statistics they're throwing around. They are completely incorrect.
A Voice of Reason
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.
You are kidding, right?
Kara H
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.
According to UM, at the undergrad level 66% will be from the state of Michigan and 4% will be foreign. (http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/glance) Thanks for playing though.
DNB
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:51 p.m.
"The year before, for entry into the 2010-2011 academic year, 9,409 students were offered a place on the waiting list, 3,724 opted to be listed and 79 were admitted." I know one Pioneer student who was on that wait list, and they got admitted. As a Pioneer parent, I would be interested to know if Ms. Marshall keeps statistics as to how many Pioneer grads applied to U of M, and were admitted, or wait-listed, then admitted, or denied. I've talked with many local parents with exemplary students who are unable to get into UM. I know they look at "perceived value" as someone else stated, but a lot of these kids grow up with the UM dream. Not complaining; just throwing this widespread complaint out there, again.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2 p.m.
I know when I went to Huron the counselors told us U of M has a bias against Ann Arbor students even though are schools are very good.
YpsiLivin
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:54 p.m.
So, what's the likelihood of getting into UM as a transfer student?
alan
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:38 p.m.
It's actually much easier than as an incoming freshman, particularly in the winter semester.
Chrissa
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:15 p.m.
I know it is "more likely" but I am kind of crappy at the exact stats. I'll try and look up some though.
trespass
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:49 p.m.
Keep in mind also that if undocumented students are moved from the out of state rolls to the in state rolls that there will be even fewer positions for Michigan students. Kellie, you should also look at an email given to Julianna Keeping that talks about "special admission" students. Look into what happened at the University of Iliinois under former UM President Smith and you may get an idea as to what "special admission" students are.
alan
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 4:17 a.m.
I have to believe that you know better than that trespass. The push is to grant in-state status to Michigan residents who happen to be undocumented but can still meet all of the residency requirements. They live here, pay taxes here, and went to school here.
Psudolus
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:26 p.m.
Don't you know those foreign students pay $65K a year. no american would pay that, so we have to give those spots to the chinese
Chrissa
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:14 p.m.
I want to know what special admission students are.
trespass
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:45 p.m.
I am sure that all those wait listed students would like to hear from President Coleman and the Board of Regents why it is more important to admit more than 1,300 Chinese students rather than Michigan students.
Tony Livingston
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:24 p.m.
Just about every college is taking Chinese students. Many are setting up programs to bring them here. Why? The Chinese really want to come here for college. There are not enough universities in China and it is very hard to get in. In addition, American schools give the U.S. experience and English proficiency opportunities. There are more wealthy Chinese these days and they are anxious to get their children a great education. What is in it for the Colleges? Foreign students pay full price and for some schools it helps their diversity numbers.
trespass
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:51 p.m.
@Feet- according to this article in the Michigan Daily the total foreign student enrollment is 5,595 and Chinese students make up 1,747. That does not include post-doctoral fellows and visiting scientists. That does include graduate students but the number of undergraduates is increasing as well. http://www.michigandaily.com/news/u-ranks-eighth-nationally-number-international-students
Feat of Clay
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:38 p.m.
I doubt they would have a way of answering that question since it has no basis in fact. The TOTAL number of admits of foreign undergrads (not just China, this means globally) is less than 1,300.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:04 p.m.
I think they would say something like "U of M is a World class institution, which means we accept people from all over the World."{
Tony Livingston
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:44 p.m.
After looking at colleges with my own child, I am surprised at how many students only focus on U of M. There are some fantastic colleges out there that offer a very well rounded education. Many of them also offer a lot of personal attention and no teaching assistants or grad students leading classes. The private schools are expensive but they have endowments and they award a lot of scholarship money to bring the price down to state school levels or even lower. U of M is a great school but it is not a good fit for everyone.
Tru2Blu76
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:43 p.m.
Tony, I tend to agree with you. These "odds" against our kids are really daunting. One of the saddest moments for our daughter was after (paradoxically) she was accepted into U of M. She was delighted at first, of course: Michigan was the ONLY school for a girl whose mother graduated from there and her beloved godfather was a professor there. But - when she got the news from her like-minded friends who had also applied (with the same degree of hope and devotion), she cried because none of them had gotten in. I was the one who encouraged her to keep aiming at U of M. But I had some concept of what we were doing and what she was doing to make that happen. For one thing, she was a student at Community High and the counselors and teachers there went to great lengths to see that she got in. She also took the first year of college French while still a senior at Community. And - best of all for us- those teachers guided her to scholarship money which paid off big time. Anyway: I see a lot of good in having backup plans and, it turns out, there are many paths to ultimately getting a degree from U of M. My very best wishes to you for your devotion to your child. I sincerely hope that "seek and you shall find" get you and your child where you want to go.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:42 p.m.
I am going to get a lot of flak for this but here it goes. U of M has excellent grad programs amoung the best in the World. Their Undergrad is a factory cookie cuter with auditorium size classes where you are usually taught by a Graduate Assistant. For undergrad go to a Michigan or Ohio small Liberal Arts College, get good grades and U of M will accept you into their grad programs. Rick Synder Mr. U of M sent his son to Albion College. I didn't even apply to U of M because I was from Ann Arbor and my mom got her MBA and MS there and going to U of M would mean four more years of being around my parents!
Jake C
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 2:34 p.m.
Approximate cost of one year of Undergraduate studies at Albion: $ 33,600 (plus room & board). Approximate cost of one year of Undergraduate studies at U of M (in-state): $12,440 (plus room & board). Will I get a three-times better education at Albion vs. U of M?
Sallyxyz
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 11:44 a.m.
To Tru3Blu76, Your daughter obviously graduated 14 years ago as you mentioned when jobs were more plentiful. No jobs here in A2 for her level of educ and experience? Well, she'll have to stay where she is, or move where the jobs are, just like everyone else. It's a tough job market and many many people can't find any work, let alone in their desired locations.
alan
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:49 a.m.
"Alan, I would like to see proof you taught there," That's a pretty goofy thing to say Elijah. Mathematics, 1993, you can google it. Nobody asked for proof that your mom exists. I assume you are young.
Tru2Blu76
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.
Well, Elijah, having a daughter who faced the same problem (didn't want to have to live with her parents four more years) upon entering U of M, I can only suggest her solution worked well: She applied to the Resident College and was accepted immediately. Emphasis mine: this worked well for her AND for us. She "stayed away" except for holidays and during the summer and only contacted us if warranted by serious considerations. Seriously, I remember taking her to dinner at a favorite restaurant here and remember that, as we sat waiting for our meals to be served, I saw tears running down her cheeks. I asked about her tears and was told: "Dad, you have no idea of how bad the food in the cafeteria is." Sounds funny - but that's the level of determination she had to "be on her own." Oh, and she didn't just hang around the house during summers: she went to visit friends, worked at "lodging included" jobs and - during the summer between junior & senior years - was gone the entire summer, visiting 11 countries in Europe. I also dispute your assertion about the quality of undergrad programs at Michigan: our daughter took 2 majors in the sciences and; in the following 14 years has had her pick of jobs at prestigious schools and institutes. In fact, NOW, her problem is that she wants to come back to Ann Arbor but there are no jobs qualified FOR HER level of education and experience! That's what four years at Michigan did for her. I can't imagine what makes you think otherwise.
MjC
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:20 p.m.
I never give anyone flak for sharing an opinion, but two of my children graduated from the UM (07 & 12). I used to believe that stuff about undergrads not getting a good education at the UM, but both of my kids received an outstanding education. They took challenging classes, had opportunities to work directly with faculty doing cutting edge research (in computer science and neuroscience), they made life long friendships, and both were recruited for jobs and grad schools based on that UM degree. I say GO BLUE to anyone who wants to attend, undergrad or grad (just remember to apply early!). And, by the way like you, Elijah, I have two other children (young adults) who decided not to apply to the UM so they could get away from the parents... so I get where you're coming from. But you're wrong about the UM undergrad experience.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3 p.m.
Alan, I would like to see proof you taught there, what you taught and for how long. You learn all this information during the admissions process and when reviewing colleges. It is no secret. By the way my Mother went to U of M and got an MBA and MS and worked their until her retirement just a few years ago and was a Graduate Assistant. So I do know.
Feat of Clay
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:31 p.m.
If you didn't apply or attend, your basis for these assertions about undergraduate courses and instructors is questionable.
alan
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:36 p.m.
You are incorrect. My daughter just completed her freshman year at U of M. 3/4 of her classes were taught by tenured faculty in groups of 30 or less students. Graduate assistants generally lead discussion or lab sections under the direction of the professor who is lecturing. The stereotype of large lectures with underqualified instructors is exactly that, a stereotype. P.S. I used to teach at Albion College and I wouldn't send my hamster there if I wanted a quality education.
xmo
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:41 p.m.
I thought Michigan used quotas for their affirmative action admission policy? "The top admissions priority is to assemble the best possible entering class, whose members are prepared to thrive at and contribute to the university community during their years here," Spencer said.
Middle America
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:36 p.m.
Why would they want to go to COLLEGE with all the LIBERALS?!
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1 p.m.
Yeah they should go to Bob Jones or Liberty for a quality Bible Brainwashing lol
bruceae
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:35 p.m.
As long as they have plenty of open spots for the foreign students that's all they care about. Reject and wait list the Ann Arbor and Michigan kids whos parents have been paying taxes all of their lives and suporting U of M in favor of the extra cash they can get from the out of country kids.
Jake C
Tue, May 1, 2012 : 2:27 p.m.
"a public univerisity that is supported mainly by tax dollars." Simply not true.
djacks24
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:39 p.m.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-touts-diverse-student-body/ Enough said.
Wolf's Bane
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.
foreign students = out-of-state tuition which is good for the bottomline.
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:43 p.m.
Some think there are way too many foreign students for a public univerisity that is supported mainly by tax dollars.
Wolf's Bane
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:52 a.m.
Wait-listed has nothing to do with academic excellence and everything to do with what "Perceived Value" of what the student brings to the University. For example, Out of State versus In State, Minority versus not, Rich versus Poor, Alumni relatives; the University has tables upon tables formulas that are applied ever semester. So, if you are rejected or wait-listed, don't take it personally.
The Black Stallion3
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:32 a.m.
Let us make sure that we admit all foreign students before any of our American students.
tommy_t
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:40 p.m.
I thought the percentage of out of state / foreign students accepted restricted by state law. If so what is/are the percentage/s? Does if vary by school or undergraduate versus graduate study programs?
Matt P
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:57 p.m.
Please feel free to back up your sarcastic comments with the number of international students admitted this (or any) year?
leaguebus
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:49 p.m.
Foreign students help keep the tuition down for in state students, if the Rickster and his merry band valued education as much as his rich buddies in business, the state appropriation could have been $1.8B more this year. But who's counting
jns131
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:34 p.m.
I could not agree more with this post.
Wolf's Bane
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:35 p.m.
Remember: They pay through the nose to attend.
The Black Stallion3
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:26 p.m.
Looks like the A2.com does not allow anyone to mention the name of the president.....talk about unfair censorship.....wow, where do we live?
Michigan Man
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:21 p.m.
BS3 - I am with you. I approve your thinking. Wonder if my comment will now be removed?
Middle America
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:39 p.m.
Why did those comments all get deleted?? I am sorry, "The Black Stallion3", let's both support *AMERICA*. Kellie Woodhouse's America, that is.
jasna
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:17 a.m.
i'm just waiting for the University to start charging students to be kept on the waitlist... much like the athletic department charges you just to be on their waitlist.
Brad
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:16 a.m.
They probably don't get in because they think that 42 is .003% of 14,659.
Kellie Woodhouse
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:33 p.m.
Thanks Brad. I failed to move the decimal point over when writing the story. My mistake, but thanks for catching it. And thanks for reading.
pvitaly
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:15 p.m.
its 43.977
applehazar
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:38 a.m.
Journalists clearly are not mathematicians - Kellie - look at your math - I woudl like to find that .43977 of a person that got accepted.
say it plain
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:10 a.m.
lol @BasicBob... but, seriously, maybe Ms. Woodhouse would like to dig a little as to why UM maintains such a giant wait list?! Is this unusual for a university to do? Is UM worried that the entire list of accepted students will fail to pay up on enrollment fees?! And I'd love to hear more about the 'geographic diversity', particularly since you quoted Ms. Marshall from Pioneer about how broken up the local kids are to feel rejected by the University that has been part of their lives for so long. Are they are a disadvantage, having come from down the road rather than elsewhere?
Feat of Clay
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:28 p.m.
I used to work in Admissions (not here, but on the East Coast). I suspect that U-M's big wait list has almost nothing to do with a worry that U-M won't get a big enough class from its regular admits. Rather, it may be more about families wanting to be able to say that their kid wasn't rejected from the U, just waitlisted. Waitlist suggests they would have loved to have your worthy, admirable child, if only there was room.
a2girl
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:17 p.m.
Yes, they are at a disadvantage. In addition, it has long been the feeling among faculty that their children are also discriminated against.
Basic Bob
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:52 a.m.
A sizable donation to the U increases your chances of moving up.
a2xarob
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:53 p.m.
Please reference your documentation of this statement, Basic. It is believed not to be true by those who should know.
SemperFi
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 7:20 p.m.
jns131: Based on your loose use 3rd person gossip and innuendo, I suspect that you won't have to concern yourself with whether you'll be seen there.
jns131
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.
I knew someone who got in based on who this person knew and what favors to cash in. This school is not one I would ever want to be seen in.
a2girl
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : noon
That seems to be what people think. But, based on what I am hearing, I would not bet on it.
Ellen Marshall
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:22 a.m.
Although I am honored by the promotion, Kellie, I am NOT a guidance counselor at Pioneer High School; rather, the Records Clerk. Ellen Marshall Pioneer Records Office
Dr. I. Emsayin
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 5:28 p.m.
Mrs. Marshall should get a bonus for all of the calls she receives and questions she answers regarding college applications and admissions. She says she might retire at the end of the school year. I hope they can find someone with her skill set to replace her. I'm sure it is hard to find and train someone to do that sort of work as skillfully as Mrs. Marshal does.
Middle America
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:23 p.m.
She is *NOT*
Kellie Woodhouse
Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:17 p.m.
Ellen, thanks. I've noted the change in the story.