talker

Wed, Sep 29, 2010 : 8:19 p.m.

Check the timeline of Gateway's history. Snyder wasn't there at the beginning. He was there during the time Gateway started its decline. People who have manufacturing jobs can afford to pay more for a computer than people who have minimum wage service jobs. Yes, Snyder did what other CEO's and boards have done, but Snyder is being evaluated here and not others who outsourced jobs. Snyder showed bias in his first executive decision, selecting the person to run as lieutenant governor. He chose for his running mate a man who wants to deny women and girls who have been victims of rape and incest. The choice of his backup shows Snyder's bias. How can there be limited government when there is government intrusion into women's and girls' personal lives?

Smiley

Tue, Sep 21, 2010 : 8:33 a.m.

I've seen Virg Benero's ads, and I just cannot stand the guy. Often you see ads that skirt the truth in a strategic way, but Benero takes it a step further to outright misrepresentation. The goal of these ads is to take advantage of the less educated in our society, and that is sad.

scooter dog

Sat, Sep 18, 2010 : 10:10 a.m.

Whats to debate?.The only question on everyones mind is how big of a landslide victory is snyder going to bestoe on bernero. I think he's in for a real drubbing. Last time I checked Rick was leading Virg be 25 points and growing ea day. Give it up Virg your going to get smoked on election day

E. Manuel Goldstein

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 7:42 p.m.

"Ricky Rich" = Gateway = MegaFail

Speechless

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 2:17 p.m.

"... "Gateway isn't doing very well now because they didn't outsource ENOUGH. Nothing is made cheaply in America, especially electronics. If Rick tried to keep jobs here instead of focusing on the company it would have failed much sooner. For electronics there is NO option but to outsource the mfg outside the US...." Really! It's true that at times you can count on conservatives to make the strongest case as to why no one who needs to work for a living should ever, ever be so naive or foolish as to identify with the economic interests of the corporate elite. The above is a fine example of an unintentional anti-capitalist broadside. Capitalism is neither moral or immoral, as it's amoral: "... NO option but to outsource...." The players in this economic game do what they need to do, according to the current rules — however arbitrary those rules might be and regardless of the social and ecological consequences. When society plays by Gateway rules, the economy becomes a nightmare for all but the fortunate few who can float away in their golden parachutes. Although I don't think that Snyder, in the role of governor, would act with the cold, icy calculation of the fallen Gateway, I'd much prefer to throw in my lot with Bernero, who knows that the rules of the economic game badly need to be altered. Hence, his support for a state bank modeled after the successful operation in North Dakota, a thorough, progressive overhaul of the state tax system, and state-directed incentive programs to create new jobs.

robyn

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 12:05 p.m.

@ MI-EXPAT: I truly didn't think you were - the way things read are often FAR different from the way we are thinking as we type. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt with the full knowledge that I KNOW I come off as pretty abrasive (unintentionally)... While Snyder is a success now - and rich - he was from an average working class background. I have met him and he is a very grounded person. Not at all 'snobbish' or 'above it all'. The fact that he financed his own campaign makes it more difficult for his future decisions (if he is elected) to favor big money donors. Look at the Granholm/State Police Post/Joel Ferguson fiasco. I used to think the UAW was the powerhouse of unions - but they are pushing their political weight in EVERY aspect of business - from education to health workers to automotive and even transportation. I think there is some sort of union for every conceivable job there is... Except being a parent - the hardest, most under paid and under appreciated job in the universe! The unions are as much a 'special interest' as any other entity that makes some sort of profit. The worst part about it is that some 'special interest' groups are non-profit and not seeking deals to make money (or more money) or have more power... Their interests are in representing the rights and looking for protections that benefit US. Most of these types of groups do not have the money to buy favors - thus when they are able to co-write legislation after getting someone in Congress to be interested enough to lend their name and support, it's not a favor because money was given. It's due to the fact that those involve think it's the right thing to do and support. Our state has been hit very hard - it has always been hit hard, but the course this state has been on has not changed - so it's obviously not working. Instead of electing someone who has made politics a career, maybe it's time to look outside of the box - at someone who doesn't need the job, the notoriety or the possibility that one office will lead to another. Someone who sincerely wants Michigan to prosper and become the state that others want to model themselves after rather than the state they point at and make snide remarks about.

Atticus F.

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 12:01 p.m.

This is just another case of a corporate shill laying off thousands of employees, and selling an American comany to the Chinese...Not to mention lining his pockets in the process.

MI-expatriate

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 11:26 a.m.

@Robyn - I was not personally attacking you - that is why I said "and others" but I do feel that there hasn't been enough anger in this state while it has just melted down. We should be furious about what has and hasn't happened here. I don't want childish antics either and no candidate is going to be perfect. But another commenter noted poverty rates, and Michigan is a hurting state - that should generate a lot of anger. Rick Snyder is apparently so wealthy that he bought his nomination - I don't see many people (anyone?)denying that that appears to be the case. How can he relate to the unemployed in this state, or the underemployed, those how have maxed out benefits, have no insurance, or those who had to leave to get work elsewhere. And if he fails, so what? He has enough money to just keep living the good life. I am not a union fan either but I think union power is eroding, except perhaps the sacred teacher's union - most of us are accepting less and doing more - why not them? I think Bernero will not play dead when the union demands are ridiculous. Obama has been accused of not being angry enough. Bernero is accused of being too angry. It is a fine line to walk but I'd rather see the emotion than not see it, and from someone who can identify with the the problems of the "working class" - and that extends to a fairly high level of household income with the breaks not coming to taxpayers as they once did. Tact would be good but sometimes you just have to go for it.

aliceinwonderland

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 11:17 a.m.

So, Snyder is a businessman who knows how to generate a ton of income by taking advantage of the global economy under the NAFTA agreement signed by our Democratic President Bill Clinton. And your problem with that is what exactly?

robyn

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 10:50 a.m.

@ schlomo: You can't use the fact that someone was successful and made money as if that's some sort of criminal act. The basic reason people go into business, invent products and figure out ways to capitalize on the latest greatest fad is to make money. Lots of it. Not to struggle or even break even - but to make enough money that they can live the life they want to live. And we ALL have the opportunity to do it - it's up to us to take advantage of everything we can to sieze that opportunity. Why is it tht people fing it so easy to villify those who are successful in business - but they never say anything about a sports figure raking in millions... You get stuck paying higher ticket prices, if they lose - you don't get upset because they aren't performing like they should for the money they're paid... Success isn't something to be ashamed of.

robyn

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 10:34 a.m.

@ MI-EXPAT: *****The squeaky wheel gets the grease; I prefer it to quiet, smug. Loud obnoxious wheels are not the same as squeaky wheels - being boorish and pushy is not the type of demeanor I expect out of the leader of my state. Calm logic and the ability to conduct one's self like a reasonable adult rather than an insolent child stamping their feet and demanding attention is not a leadership quality that is desirable. *****The former head honcho at Gateway is hardly coming from a position of poverty and "every man". He also outsourced, "but was powerless to stop it." We need another powerless leader? He actually ran a successful business that was not dependent upon taxpayer money that could be raised every time the bank account needed a financial infusion. He may have been at the helm - but he also had to answer to a Board of Directors - so he was not omnipotent. I think this is actually a very good qualifier - if he becomes our governor - we will be his 'Board of Directors'. Bernero ran (even if he was re-elected - I can't see how tough his job must be if he can be out campaigning more days per week than running his city) a city that is basically financed by the Capitol and MSU - those two entities alone keep Lansing above water financially as compared to many other large cities in Michigan. It's not big secret that U of M plays a key role in Ann Arbor's economy. That's a wondeful thing and should not be taken for granted - very lucky as compared to other cities across the state. He is also so 'in' with the unions - that I doubt he can take an unbiased look at any business without his union ties playing a role in how he makes decisions. Personally - I think the role of unions has become so political that their original purpose has been long forgotten in lieu of their own greed and political clout. Believe it or not - just because a person pays union dues does NOT a Democrat make. I see more and more of this all the time. Worst part is - they can't 'quit the union' - they are threatened with 'black-balling' and with the threat of having other union members harassing them until they lose their job. That's no secret - and that is the kind of organization that supports Bernero - it's some weird legal version of organized crime... No thanks - I do NOT want people like that influencing my governor. *****Michigan is practically red-lined for lending. A state bank makes sense, and the state earns the interest on loans and investments! Also, it has been tried and has worked elsewhere - this is not a new idea. Sure it's not - I can see it now! Take a close look at the auto insurance in this state - specifically the MCCA, state run fund headed by the insurance companies in which a nice chunk of your insurance premium every year is put into the 'fund' - oh yeah - you pay for EACH vehicle you own. They 'manage' this humongous bank account filled with our money and we get it if our medical costs exceed what our insurance (or the insurance company our lawyer sues) will cover. But they really make it difficult for anyone to actually make claims - partly because if they hold out long enough - you'll either recover before they decide (in which case they don't pay) - or you die (and they don't pay). The state - while 'overseeing' this fund and having a position on the board - but it's non-voting so it's kind of like a pretend title, can't force the insurance companies to open the books so we can see what's going on with our money. And it is OUR MONEY - to be used for US. I see a state run bank pretty much going in the same direction. It isn't a good idea. Aside from all of that, Bernero is a bit too flighty - he ran for a second term as mayor and promised he would stay with his city - he stated that several times - no sooner was he sworn in and he is out looking for a bigger better office. He lied to the people who voted for him as mayor - no respect or loyalty to them. What make you think he feels any different about the rest of us? I realize that being governor will probably keep him from looking for a new political notch in his belt - and I hardly think he has what it takes to become a president... But I'm not comfortable with a person who makes deals and does see them through - especially when the people of Lansing put their trust in him to lead their city.

Jay Allen

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 10:15 a.m.

virg has no plan other than to trash his opponent. That is blatantly clear. And, there is no point to the article other than to keep virg's face in the news. For those who think the "left's plan" of tax and spend is the way to go....... Released yesterday, the U.S. Census is reporting that 14.3% of Americans now live poverty. 1 in 7. Link = http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/09/16/2472842/census-1-in-7-americans-live-in.html Hmmm.......The highest it has been since 1994. Just call it the bookends. Clinton on one and Obama on the other. Jennifer is stumbling out of office and virg is NOT going to waltz in.

Sandy Castle

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 10:02 a.m.

I am a democrat and I am planning on voting for Rick Snyder. That said, if I hear better ideas regarding how to revitalize Michigan come out of Virg Bernero's mouth instead of all the name-calling and bashing that I've been hearing I might change my mind. I want to hear what the candidates are going to do for Michigan. I could care less what they think of each other. And by the poll numbers I've seen, I don't think I'm alone in this.

An

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 8:54 a.m.

So, where are the ads telling us what Bernero can DO for us instead of telling us what he thinks Rick Snyder did wrong or what he thinks Rick Snyder cannot do for us. Should he be advertising his own skills?

schlomo

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 8:46 a.m.

ooh I feel sorry for him and the millions he walked away with. How about those who really lost EVERYTHING when executives greedily socked away the worker's money?

Paula Gardner

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 8:01 a.m.

Here's a report from AnnArbor.com reporter Nathan Bomey in June. He spent some time digging into the Gateway/outsourcing issues, including talking to people involved and reading public filings from that time. http://www.annarbor.com/business-review/did-rick-snyder-ship-jobs-overseas-at-gateway/

clownfish

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 7:12 a.m.

Successful businessman. Do a search of Gateway stock prices and profits from 2000-2005 (hint: there were none posted). When Gateway was sold to Acer, the stock was at just over a buck, a devaluation of several hundred millions, if not close to a billion, dollars, I believe.

Soothslayer

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 7:11 a.m.

Gateway isn't doing very well now because they didn't outsource ENOUGH. Nothing is made cheaply in America, especially electronics. If Rick tried to keep jobs here instead of focusing on the company it would have failed much sooner. For electronics there is NO option but to outsource the mfg outside the US. Consumers only concern is price. They could care less where it was made or whos jobs it displaced. If we need to completely tear down and change Michigan to improve it then fine. If we need to hire cheap (foreign) labor so we can then focus on tasks and goals better suited for our fine MI college graduates then fine. Virg = dem politics as usual lining the pockets of unions at the expense of jobs and innovation. Where did our auto jobs go? Right to work states. Rick = Michigans ONLY hope for improvement in the next decade.

scooter dog

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 7:09 a.m.

When your behind by 20 percentage points and the writing is is on the wall,people will stoop to great depths of sorid facts to gain a foot hold. Give it up virg,your mouth is your worst enemy. Your going to get bombed on election day

clownfish

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 7:02 a.m.

While a board member and member of the auditing board at Gateway, Snyder was involved in an SEC fraud claim: http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2003-157.htm the execs at Gateway agreed with the claim brought by the SEC. Some of the same tactics by companies like ENRON and Lehman Bros. Maybe if ya'll don't think fraud is wrong Snyder could be your man. He also agreed to over $13,000,000 in severance packages for execs that left the company. How many of you would be willing to give state union employees a years wages or more to quit? Will Snyder agree to that? His venture capital funds have raised over $200,000,000...and created 1200 jobs across the nation. Kind of reminds me of the criticism of the Stimulus Plan from President Obama that I hear from the right. $160,000/job created. Not much of a history of being a "job creator". Snyder has a great media Plan, and a good phrase, but he has few actual definitive plans to save the state, just 10 points of generalities. I need to have some work done on my truck and I sure don't want a "career" mechanic doing the work, as they charge too much and don't know the real world. I am thinking of finding a retired CEO from an insurance company to do the work.

Duane Collicott

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 6:57 a.m.

What this post sheds light on is that Bernero's criticism of Snyder center's around the fact that Snyder was a successful businessman. This betrays the fact that he and other Democrats are threatened that Snyder will bring with him to Lansing the concept of fiscal responsibility. They won't be able to continue to spend freely without concern for the consequences. That's not the kind of change they want. However, it is the kind of change we want.

MI-expatriate

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 12:04 a.m.

Moderators: Please delete my double entry - thanks!

MI-expatriate

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : 12:02 a.m.

*****Robyn (and others): 1. To shout louder than everyone else and generally make a lot of noise and commotion. *****The squeaky wheel gets the grease; I prefer it to quiet, smug. 2. To empower unions, that are not 'special interest' because they aren't big and rich like corporations. Oh wait - they are big and rich... *****The former head honcho at Gateway is hardly coming from a position of poverty and "every man". He also outsourced, "but was powerless to stop it." We need another powerless leader? 3. To set up a state run bank because the state is really good at running things and handling money. Darn it! We're broke, we've lost all kinds of people and jobs and business and jobs and did I mention we're broke... *****Michigan is practically red-lined for lending. A state bank makes sense, and the state earns the interest on loans and investments! Also, it has been tried and has worked elsewhere - this is not a new idea.

MI-expatriate

Fri, Sep 17, 2010 : midnight

*****Robyn (and others): 1. To shout louder than everyone else and generally make a lot of noise and commotion. *****The squeaky wheel gets the grease; I prefer it to quiet, smug. 2. To empower unions, that are not 'special interest' because they aren't big and rich like corporations. Oh wait - they are big and rich... *****The former head honcho at Gateway is hardly coming from a position of poverty and "every man". He also outsourced, "but was powerless to stop it." We need another powerless leader? 3. To set up a state run bank because the state is really good at running things and handling money. Darn it! We're broke, we've lost all kinds of people and jobs and business and jobs and did I mention we're broke... *****Michigan is practically red-lined for lending. A state bank makes sense, and the state earns the interest on loans and investments! Also, it has been tried and has worked elsewhere - this is not a new idea.

Macabre Sunset

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 11:48 p.m.

So, questioning the ethics of a reporter is off-limits? Asking why he feels the need to make a story out of every one of his candidate's press releases? You may think you're protecting this pretend journalist, but you're only perpetuating the bias.

robyn

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 11:27 p.m.

I'm still trying to figure out Bernero's platform. This is what I have so far: 1. To shout louder than everyone else and generally make a lot of noise and commotion. 2. To empower unions, that are not 'special interest' because they aren't big and rich like corporations. Oh wait - they are big and rich... 3. To set up a state run bank because the state is really good at running things and handling money. Darn it! We're broke, we've lost all kinds of people and jobs and business and jobs and did I mention we're broke... He totally has my vote... In an alternate universe.

Macabre Sunset

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 11:13 p.m.

You didn't answer my question about omsbudsmen, Ryan. Are you going to reprint every single email Bernero sends you? I think you've failed when it comes to ethics in this profession.

MI-expatriate

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 10:33 p.m.

Thank you Speechless. The oil cartel BOUGHT us George W. Bush (with the help of the Supreme Court), with endless wars in Iraq (they couldn't even plant weapons of mass destruction?!) and Afghanistan. The oil cartel won big; the US continues to lose. Do not blame Obama - no one can reverse 8 years in less than 2 years. I am really, really tired of politicians buying their way into office! I like the angriest mayor in American because a lot of people in America, and Michigan particularly, are angry - rightfully so. The fact that Bernero is backed by unions doesn't mean he will let them conquer him - it's a new world - I think we all know that. I want real people running the show for a change. Someone said earlier that Bernero is a sleaze - no, I am afraid he has been simply identified as a member NOT of the elite. Listen to him talk and see the sense in what he says. He is outraged at what we have been through. We all should be outraged. The solutions will come. No one with this level of intensity will give up. Michigan needs decisive leadership now, not excuses like, "I was powerless to stop it". Resign then, like Colin Powell did - then I will believe you mean what you say. Snyder was looking at his wallet at Gateway, not at the wallets of American workers.

Mikey2u

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 9:16 p.m.

Bernero's a good man. He's got my vote,

Speechless

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 9:12 p.m.

And he's buying a Gateway to Lansing.

graceekerr

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 9:02 p.m.

Tell me what is good about you, not what's bad about the other guy. Can't wait til Nov. when all this is over. Let's get all new people voted in and maybe Michigan will have a chance. Go Rick.

stunhsif

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 7:14 p.m.

Pack it in Virg, you have no chance to win. If it were not for MSU, Lansing would be in the same shape as Flint or Saginaw. Ann Arbor would be the same if not for the U of M. Virg is nothing but a union behind kisser who will take this state down even further. Same old ideas wearing a suit instead of a skirt!

1bigbud

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 6:51 p.m.

By the way ask Virg what happend to Olds and Pontiac in Lansing He was not good enough to hold them All of the Lansing bars and Resturants are doing good Because of OUR LAW MAKERS They support the locals when they have to 1/2 to 3/4 of lansing is paid for by MSU (our tax$) How can our State Capital loooose money Even our Kwame Kilpatrick Would be able to run Lansing OH thats right he is a DEM.. toooo

1bigbud

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 6:33 p.m.

He (rick) did what any good company owner or leader should do for his Co. Why should the Co. take a hit Same as our state Do what we need to do to make a score What was he to do just let the Company just die This shows me he is a GOOD Leader Say goodnight Virg

Hunterjim

Thu, Sep 16, 2010 : 6:21 p.m.

so what is the point of this article?