University of Michigan regents to consider offering in-state tuition to military and unauthorized immigrants
This story has been updated.
The University of Michigan Board of Regents is considering revising its requirements for who can receive in-state tuition to include the military and students in the country without legal permission.
Three protesters chant, demanding tuition equality for unauthorized immigrants, as a University of Michigan police officer arrests them for sitting in the intersection of South State Street and South University Avenue in Ann Arbor on April 17.
Under current guidelines, unauthorized immigrants who grew up in Michigan pay full freight for a U-M degree. U-M's residency requirement also has been criticized for making it difficult for veterans from Michigan to qualify for residency if they were stationed overseas for a long period of time.
The proposed change would not only allow service members from Michigan to receive in-state tuition, it would allow anyone who serves in the military or was honorably discharged, no matter their state of origin, to receive in-state tuition.
It would also allow unauthorized immigrants who attended middle and high school in Michigan to enter U-M paying the in-state rate, as long as they matriculated to the Ann Arbor school within 28 months of graduating high school.
The difference in in-state and out-of-state rates is steep.
U-M has one of the most expensive out-of-state tuition rates of public universities in the country. In the fall, students from Michigan will pay $13,142, while non-residents will pay $40,392.
U-M's Board of Regents will vote on the residency requirement change during a public meeting on Thursday at 3 p.m. held in the North Atrium of Building 18 at the North Campus Research Complex. The governing board is composed of six Democrats and two Republicans.
Hundreds of students have been advocating for what they call "tuition equality" for about two years.
"It's been a long time coming," said Javier Contreras, who said student student activism played a large role in the proposed change. Contreras, an unauthorized immigrant who began attending school in Ann Arbor in kindergarten, graduated from Skyline High School this fall and lobbied U-M for a change in its residency policy so he could afford to attend. He has since received a scholarship from Washtenaw Community College.
"When we called them out -that you're supposed to be the leaders and the best-... it sent a message that they didn't want to be associated with. It made them see 'Oh well, maybe there is something wrong with our policy.'"
Throughout the fall and winter a U-M task force compiled a report on tuition equality, benchmarking U-M to other schools and exploring the logistics and legality of such a policy. A group of administrators, including the provost and president, reviewed that report and crafted recommendations for the Board of Regents, which has the final say on the matter.
Supporters of tuition equality have rallied on the Diag and staged a sit-in at a Board of Regents meeting, saying current policies put U-M out of financial reach for most unauthorized immigrants who grew up in Michigan.
Eight people were arrested in April after blocking traffic during a rally for tuition equality outside the Michigan Union. The U-M-based Coalition for Tuition Equality has rallied at multiple Board of Regents meetings, with students also individually petitioning regents during the public comments section of open meetings.
“We’re really happy that they decided to move forward,” said Coalition representative Daniel Morales. “The policy will have minimal effect on undocumented student enrollment if it’s not followed by the creation of a scholarship or grant program that gives undocumented students access to financial aid.”
Statewide university systems in at least a dozen states, including Maryland, Massachusetts, Texas, New York and California, already offer forms of tuition equality. Unauthorized immigrants, however, are not eligible for federal student loans or grants.
Eastern Michigan University's Board of Regents in 2012 declined to offer in-state tuition for unauthorized immigrants. Western Michigan University students who can prove in-state residency are awarded in-state tuition, regardless of their citizenship status.
The proposed changes to what have been called residency guidelines represent the first comprehensive revisions since 2005. The changes would take effect in January 2014.
In each of the past two years, students have filed about 2,000 applications for resident classification on all three U-M campuses. According to U-M figures, nearly 80 percent of those were granted in-state tuition.
Kellie Woodhouse covers higher education for AnnArbor.com. Reach her at kelliewoodhouse@annarbor.com or 734-623-4602 and follow her on twitter.
Comments
Tex Treeder
Mon, Jul 22, 2013 : 6:50 p.m.
I re-read this article to see if any links had been posted with updates on any actions by the Board of Regents. Nothing that I see. I still wonder how this has even reached this stage of debate. People have violated our laws, crossed the border illegally and now demand rights and privileges beyond what even some US citizens have. This is surely Wonderland. I see that one self-admitted illegal alien, Javier Contreras, is one of the organizers behind this movement. Is INS (or USCIS or ICE or whatever their name is now) pursuing any deportation action against this self-confessed criminal?
LXIX
Wed, Jul 17, 2013 : 11:03 a.m.
What is different and yet unspoken by the supporters of illegal immigrants including the shameful U of M. is this- Whether naturalized today or a son/daughter of the American Revolution, citizens of the United States share a common cause. They have all bonded together to carve out a survival niche in a very competitive world human economy - the U.S. It is made up of sub-niches called States. Real geography where residents must exist. Native Americans have there own legal "Nation islands" within. Whether new or old, every single U.S. citizen struggled while learning to tame this new geography. Fought and stole from the Native populations who taught them and killed them. Won the Revolution. Signed the Declaration of Independence. Made slaves out of others (including the Scotish peoples). Fought a very bloody Civil War over regional economics and slavery. Abused minorities, the disabled, women, and children and protested for their liberation and protection underl equal rights and opportunity law. Absolved the illegal acts of aliens twice. Argued incessantly over governance and regulations making their survival better and compromised. Dealt with alcohol and drugs and disease and crime. Sacrificed themselves for their fellow citizens. Paid taxes submitted to idiotic rulers and their DDAs, and gave up of limb and life just to keep the American Dream alive. That in part is why citizens demand more benefit than illegal aliens - they earned them. Worked together and made it theirs. Illegal aliens are seen as either traitors who have abandoned their own country - which is not a good resume here unless done legally - or even worse, are just stealing benefits while still citizens of foreign competitor nation. Survival thieves. Business, the President, Congress, and the UM who advocate a new welcome for illegal aliens are considered "near traitors" to the "patriotic niche" despite the "high minded" intentions..
C'est la vie
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:38 p.m.
I'm so tired of the pseudo-argument that the children of adults who entered the US illegally shouldn't be punished for their parents' actions. Perhaps not, but they shouldn't be rewarded either!!! Parents use their kids as pawns in this whole scheme, either bringing them over the border or having anchor babies once they get here. It's time to stop the free health care for non-citizen expecting mothers, free food via WIC once babies are born, etc. etc. Illegals work the system because they can. Who do you think is in the kitchens on Main Street and all over town preparing your meals, folks? Why do you think Ann Arbor is known as a sanctuary city? The only way to really stop the problem is to stop the availability of jobs. Every state should use the e-verify system to check if a job applicant has a valid social security number and is qualified to work. I'm all for a broader guest worker visa program. Many of the people who come here to work don't actually want to stay long-term; they'd like to return home at some point, but don't due to the dangers of being caught.
LXIX
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.
To suggest that illegal aliens are innocent children who should have equal squatter rights in this country because the current collection of brutal invaders is sitting on someone else's Nativve American soil is sad but still hilarious. People who supposedly went to Michigan schools and demand in-state tuition should had American History. The one where waves of humans streamed out of Africa and populated the empty Middle East, Europe, Asia, Americas, and continue to over-populate the entire planet without regard to any Earth-limited economic future beyond shopping at Walmart for more kid's clothes on sale. Unless you are a Neanderthal then your ancestors likely burned raped and pillaged the previous group of squatters to enjoy what you now call home. No human is absolved of their parent's past incursions. No human surviving today is "innocent". What makes the last wave of invaders "authorized" is enforceable resident law and order recognized by most outsiders. Called treaties and UN law. A minority of global corporations, religions, and self-appointed master-planners want to change that to reap the last of the rapidly disappearing spoils.. A smaller population is the most logical approach but the regents and other world powers prefer to take their easier path and redefine Natural Law and Order like cause and effect and required resource supply and demand. That is what this is all about and the answer to them is NO ! Go "home"!
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:01 p.m.
So, what date is set for you to go down the the county building and transfer the deed of your home to our local native American population?
RWS
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 11:55 a.m.
Even considering giving illegal's in-state tuition makes me want to vomit. I'm ashamed to be associated with this university.
johnnya2
Wed, Jul 17, 2013 : 3:45 p.m.
Allowing students who engage in ILLEGAL activity makes me vomit. I hope you take as a strong a stand against those that ILLEGALLY drink alcohol and use drugs. I also hope you have the same feelings about those that speed, run stop signs. or even kids who might have violated a curfew or maybe had sex before they were of LEGAL consenting age.
walker101
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 11:27 a.m.
Can't wait for them to demand classes in their native languages.
Morty Seinfeld
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 10:41 a.m.
How about our government do there job and have the Department of Homeland Security start rounding up these illegals and ship them back home.
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:28 p.m.
Illegals have been rounded up in record numbers over the last 4 or so years.
dfossil
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:49 a.m.
I am surprised by some of the commentators saying "that U. of M. has deep pockets" so this is OK. Wrong, folks. It is OUR tax dollars here. The State subsidizes the U. in case you have forgotten? We pay for others to attend even if you or your kids can not! And with the current governor, you don't even get a tax break if you give to them!
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:53 p.m.
actually, the state allocation is rather small, and 85% of the operating budget comes from tuition.
Gardener1
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:53 a.m.
If children have lived in Michigan for 7 years, why shouldn't they be considered a resident of Michigan. They reside in Michigan and have resided in Michigan for 7 years attending middle school and high school in Michigan. This should not be about citizenship since the issue is about residency.
1bit
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.
@teeters: That's not how taxes work in our system. If someone were on welfare and paid no taxes, they would have the same right to in-state tuition as someone in a richer family. And, moreover, as children neither of these young adults are likely paying taxes at 18 years old.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:53 p.m.
bingo!
teeters
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:58 p.m.
It's all about TAXES! Residents pay taxes, thus they get a break. Illegals don't pay taxes, thus they don't get a break. You pay into the pot, you get it back.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.
Because they're in the country illegally. I really don't get why that part is so hard to understand.
Ms1215919
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:33 a.m.
Are there now, or have there been, unauthorized immigrants allowed to serve in the military?
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:52 p.m.
yes.
Ms1215919
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:30 a.m.
Your words, Madhatter, not mine.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:44 a.m.
I don't believe so. Why don't we all reach out to our elected officials and demand that "unauthorized citizens" be given the same right to serve in our military? After all, it's about equality and education right?
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:20 a.m.
I have a question. Will U of M students be required to learn Spanish to accommodate all the "unauthorized immigrants" from South America? We wouldn't want anyone to feel left out or have an unfair advantage.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:14 a.m.
I believe the tried and true term is "illegal alien." Illegal as in a law was broken, and alien because they are not recognized on this land--because of either their illegal actions or the illegal actions of a family member. If a child of an illegal alien should be mad with anyone it should be with the parent who decided he or she was above the law and created the problem. I see no reason why my taxes should go to subsidizing a college education of an illegal alien. I am so tired of irresponsibility getting a free ride while those who follow the rules get shafted.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:45 a.m.
So if your parents smoked pot or drove drunk we should punish their children? Great logic there
Cornelius Nestor
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:11 a.m.
The government will shortly legalize the illegals because the most common demographic among them votes 80% democratic (that is, for the party of government). UM is just a little ahead of the curve-- by the time they graduate, they won't be illegals.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:53 p.m.
This is why the correct term is, "Undocumented Democrats."
grye
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:34 a.m.
Break the law, get a benefit. No wonder our country has no common sense on right vs wrong.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:44 a.m.
Yes, all those underage drinkers should be kicked out of college IMMEDIATELY. And off they ever smoked pot, see ya later.
In doubt
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:28 a.m.
Unauthorized Immigrants should get nothing......N-O-T-H-I-N-G !!!!!!!!!!! All those funds should go to helping military and veterans.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:16 a.m.
I don't call them unauthorized immigrants. They are known to me as illegal aliens. I don't play the progressive word game.
JGA2trueblue
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:08 a.m.
This is exactly why I do not give to the alumni association any longer.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:52 p.m.
Sometimes alumni giving is the last hope of sanity. For example, the "Halo."
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:43 a.m.
Thhe ALIMNI association is a separate organization, but dont let facts change your mind "The Alumni Association of the University of Michigan is an INDEPENDENT worldwide organization that nurtures lifelong relationships with and among current and future Michigan alumni. As a committed partner of the University, the Association offers programs of relevance and service to alumni and creates support for the University. Underlying all that we do is the belief in the value of education to the well being of society, and a commitment to integrity, diversity, and service."
stihl1
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:37 p.m.
What boggles my mind is that someone would pay $40k a year to go to UofM. Unbelievable.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.
It's consistently ranked in the top 25 schools WORLDWIDE, man.
Goober
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:43 p.m.
Yup!
what4
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:14 p.m.
I do not think it's fair these kids take any of the slots set aside for new in-state students each year. That's just wrong and unfair to Michigan residents. If you want to charge them in-state rates, fine, but admit them based on the out-of-state admission standard.
what4
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11 p.m.
No one should forget that former UofM president Coleman got her husband, (a "trailing spouse" in UofM HumanResourceSpeak) instate tuition for graduate school immediately upon their arrival in our state. Am I now stunned by this verbalized idea that granting instate tuition to foreigners is a good one? Not so much. It's all politics and self interest.
what4
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:28 p.m.
Talker, I honestly don't know. You may well be right about him being offered a TA position. It did seem fishy to me at the time (or perhaps petty is more correct) but I do not recall the details. It definitely soured me toward her and her judgment right off the bat.
talker
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:12 p.m.
Did he get in-state tuition immediately, rather than as a TA? I don't know if it's still true, but many years ago, TA's (teaching assistants) got in-state tuition.
Soft Paw
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:45 p.m.
Most undocumented kids were brought here when they were very young. you want to punish them for their parent's mistakes and remove them from the ONLY place that they know as they grew up, and to deny them a chance to get an affordable education?. Once again, all because of their parent's mistakes. Really? Thankfully in Michigan the doors are open and the dream is still alive.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:53 a.m.
Because of their parent's mistakes? They weren't mistakes, they were intentional actions. Sure, it wasn't the kid's fault, but it wasn't our fault either. So why are we going to pay for it?
1bit
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:11 p.m.
""..and to deny them a chance to get an affordable education?" This is a bit of hyperbole, no? Not everyone can afford U of M even at in-state tuition and even if they are legal citizens. There isn't a right to an education at the University of Michigan. Your argument that the kids are being punished for "their parent's mistakes" is false. These kids are not being denied admission, the only question is what rate they should pay. If a kid is born in Ohio, then they too are punished for "their parent's mistakes" by having to pay out-of-state tuition. Moreover, there are plenty of people (in fact, the majority of Americans) who have achieved the "American Dream" without having ever gone to the University of Michigan. There is no denial of opportunity here. Now, if your argument is that affordable education should be made available to everyone then that is a different discussion altogether.
talker
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:33 p.m.
Did you know that if a student who was born and raised in Michigan and goes to college in another state, if that student wants to enroll at the U. of M. at in-state rates, there's a limit of one year after getting a bachelor's degree to be able to get in-state tuition at Michigan, even if the students parents never left.? Also, unless it's been changed, the spouses of medical residents and fellows aren't eligible for in-state tuition regardless of how many years they've been here because it's considered that they are here while a spouse gets further training (even though house staff officers could be seen as employees). If that has changed during the past two years, then I'm wrong. I don't know when the U. of M. became especially unyielding about that. We came here in the 1970's and after being here one year I applied for and received in-state tuition (our first year here I'd had in-state tuition as a T.A.). I think I got in-state tuition then only because of two things: I stressed the fact that my husband had been in the military for two years and that was not in our home state and we didn't have a state of residence anymore other than Michigan and I added that we intended to remain in Michigan. Well, we're still here about 35 years later. I believe that under more recent regulations and analysis that in-state tuition would not be given. The upshot of this issue is: 1. There are people who pay full tuition (such as spouses of house staff) who pay income and property taxes (through ownership or renting) in Michigan and whose have spouses who work (as well as train) in Michigan. 2. There are long time Michigan residents whose children (who've been away at school and stayed away one more year) don't get in-state tuition. The grandchildren of these Michigan residents don't get in-state tuition either.
talker
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:37 p.m.
There are students who attend community colleges for at least two years before transferring to a 4 year university. Some students do this because they can't afford even in-state tuition for 4 years. If in-state tuition needed to be raised to include undocumented students, then more Michigan students wouldn't be able to afford 4 years at the U. of M..
cubicle
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:26 p.m.
Alright, scenario switch. Anyone not of Native American descent needs to leave the country tomorrow. How does that sit with you? Where would you go? Do you have family where you're "from"? Do you even speak the LANGUAGE where you're "from"? These are KIDS. Just because their parents came here and took some sh*t-ass job that nobody else would want doesn't make them guilty by association. Property taxes? Income taxes? How much control did you have over your family paying taxes as a child? The idea that NO ONE who grew up on welfare or lived in a shelter ever worked hard enough to get accepted into U of M is preposterous. I'm sorry, but I'd rather come up with a citizenship amnesty plan based upon successful graduation and give the kid who proves their merit and is here not of their choice a break over someone pulling a favor at a country club in California or New York. There's a whole lot of stone throwing in the Ann Arbor Glass Bubble (TM) today.
Harm
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5:56 a.m.
You see the hypocrisy here better than many, cubicle......
Irislover
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:41 a.m.
Thank you for this. I completely agree!
Mike
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:42 p.m.
The taxpayers should authorize cutting all tax dollar support for the university! Let the illegals pay their own way.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:50 p.m.
Yes! Let's bankrupt Michigan families to hurt Mexicans! Fabulous plan!
ManA2
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:07 p.m.
The basic idea of in-state vs out of state tuition is that students from in-state families have been paying the taxes that have been supporting the University. The other benefit is that they are more likely to stay in the state over the long term, helping the general economic climate in the state. If they haven't been paying taxes, it's tough to justify giving them the tax-payer discount. We really need comprehensive immigration reform. These are people who want to be here, and overwhelmingly are a positive for our country, but doing this prior to giving them a path to legal residency is strange.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:49 p.m.
No, that's not "the basic idea," since a vast amount of folks pay no income tax, and their kids still qualify, which is as it should be.
talker
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:44 p.m.
Yes and also people who've paid taxes in Michigan for 30 or 40 years don't get in-state tuition for grandchildren from other states. Those children didn't choose where their parents live either. It's a good point that part of the reason for in-state tuition is to train people to become producers and job creators within the state.
KateT
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:06 p.m.
Illegal aliens are not paying taxes to the State of Michigan. The end.
1bit
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:04 p.m.
While the idea of "paying taxes" is fine in theory, the application may be difficult. What if a family is at the poverty level and pays no taxes, do they not count as citizens? What about families that pay extraordinary amounts of taxes, do they deserve special consideration? So while I agree with you in principle, there are problems with using the "paying taxes" thing as the metric here.
Barzoom
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:57 p.m.
Military yes....Illegal aliens No!
Hugh Giariola
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:47 p.m.
Prior service military students? Yes all the way. This should not even be a question.
Jane Jetson
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:37 p.m.
I live out of state but own a house in the AA area, and work for a Michigan company. My property taxes are outrageous because our house doesn't qualify for the Headley Override, and I pay Michigan income taxes. Do you think my kids would qualify for in state tuition? I doubt it.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:48 p.m.
No, if you don't live in Michigan, you don't qualify for a tuition break designed for folks who live in Michigan. Otherwise, anybody could buy a 5K shack somewhere in MI and reap the savings. I'm not sure why this appears confusing to you. I'm sure your kids qualify for in-state tuition in whatever state you do live in, even if you don't pay it any income tax.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:57 p.m.
KMHall I have heard better arguments from illiterate illegals.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.
But you simply don't live here or send your kids to high school here. It's not weird that they don't get in state tuition.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:32 p.m.
"Unauthorized immigrants." Bogus. And just a few days ago you said you strive to maintain accuracy in your headlines.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
The "accurate" and "neutral" parts are what are funny. It's neither of those.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:38 a.m.
Are you familiar with unauthorized use a credit card? It is the crime MANY are charged with. I guess we should start calling UM students ILLEGAL students since they are breaking the law every time they have alcohol before they reach 21. THEY ARE ILLEGAL make them pay out of state tuition. They KNOWINGLY broke a law under age, just the same as a middle school immigrant does.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:26 a.m.
I am not familiar with an "unauthorized immigrant," but I know what an illegal alien is.
1bit
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:24 a.m.
@Arborcomment: Thanks for the clarification. Do you know what term U of M is using?
Arborcomment
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:13 a.m.
Sorry 1bit, it is a term selected by the MLive leadership and "coincidentally" by like-minded media (the AP for example). In a process akin to pulling teeth, we learned that the council of editors decided to use this term. Their first excuse was for "consistency", when pressed again, a MLIVE Community Affairs person stated it was the "most accurate" and "neutral".
1bit
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:58 p.m.
Perhaps that is the term the University of Michigan is using, in which case it would be accurate to use the same term.
Dog Guy
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:27 p.m.
Even in the 1960's, University of Michigan contempt for our military wasn't more obvious than this ploy.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:26 p.m.
Let the illegals spend 2 years in the military ( preferably ours ) after high school then lets talk about it.
Harm
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:21 p.m.
There are reasons to give undocumented aliens in-state tuition. They are kids whose parents chose to break the law, not the kids themselves. And by the way, to all those who profess outrage at illegals, what would THEY do, if they were Mexicans or whatever, looking at not being to get into the U.S. legally? They can't truthfully say they wouldn't take the illegal way to a better life, I'll bet....
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:48 p.m.
Once upon a time a most powerful kingdom called Spain "discovered" the Americas and looted their gold after the Scandinavians in Canada of course and includes waves of Africans who lived in China and Russian and who walked across the Bering Strait or sailed in vessels over the oceans. Which Native Americans were abused? Where? Is this about the Mayan Calendar again? Mecians are beautiful people whether Hispanic or native American. Once a country is no longer able to defend itself against ingress, then it beomes the land of the invader unless the residents object to the high court and then legally take it back. That would include aliens illegal or extraterrestrial too. Where their high court may be is unknown. UM is not the American high court.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:50 p.m.
JRW The the Native Americans get to vote on whether the invading Europeans would eventually get in-state tuition? When I meet an undocumented kid who has done more harm to our homeland than the white folks did the the Natives, then I'll ask that kid to pay full price.
JRW
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.
If anyone wants to move to another country for a better life, each country has rules to be followed. Follow the rules and then make your way in the new country, like so many others before them. Illegal entry is illegal entry, regardless of the reason. The US sponsors thousands of refugees from all over the world every year, which is another route to entry. Other immigrants wait their turn to come to the US and follow the rules. Illegal criminal behavior should not be rewarded. It will encourage others to not follow the rules. The parents made a choice to break the law and bring their kids who are also breaking the law. Just because the kids themselves didn't make the decision doesn't change anything.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.
Might do it and would be happy if the country I entered illegally refused to enforce their laws. The problem is not so much with the illegals as it is our spineless politicians that are only looking for votes.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:20 p.m.
How much would college cost back where these people are citizens?
Usual Suspect
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:54 a.m.
Sure you do. You can come back here legally.
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:09 p.m.
Much much less. But then you don't have the opportunity to compete for an American job after graduation.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:01 p.m.
Barbara And how will you answer the parents of a student from Toledo , OH. ( the last I knew that WAS part of the US ) who's son or daughter has to pay full freight just because they live a couple miles out of the state? While someone that is not even in this country legally will get in-state tuition? I have no problem with ANY veteran paying in state tuition no matter what state he is from.l
jcj
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:05 p.m.
johnny What I am saying is that their are illegals in this country that get MUCH more help from our government than many US citizens could ever get! Simple enough for you?
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:34 a.m.
@JCJ, So you are saying Toledo should be considered part of Michigan and those that live even closer in Sarnia or Windsor should NOT be part of Michigan. The person who LIVES in Toledo, pays most of the taxes to the state of Ohio. In fact any purchase in Michigan can get reimbursed for sales tax. The PERSOn who lives in Michigan, goes to middle school and high school here DOES have a larger investment in the state than the person from Toledo.
Winnie
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8 p.m.
What about those international students who went through all the trouble to keep their legal status, but were charged the highest tuition. Shall they just turn them into "unauthorized" and get a better rate on tuition? There are high school students in student visa, and will graduate from a Michigan high school.
A2comments
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:57 p.m.
"Supporters of tuition equality have rallied on the Diag and staged a sit-in at a Board of Regents meeting, saying current policies put U-M out of financial reach for most unauthorized immigrants who grew up in Michigan." Show proof of paying income tax and property tax (if a property owner) and your children can get in-state tuition. Otherwise, the fact that you cannot get educated with Michigan taxpayers paying a good portion of the cost is the way it is.
A2comments
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:35 p.m.
johnnya2, was something unclear about property tax (if a property owner)? In other words, renters don't pay property tax... Sales tax is not income tax. Pay income tax to the state, pay social security tax to the federal government and income tax to the federal government. Then ask if Michigan residents will subsidize your child's education.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:32 a.m.
I can show HUNDREDS of people who RENT and have no direct property tax bills. Also immigrants pay sales tax every single time they buy most anything. The also do not get to take advantage of things many others get to like a Homestead property tax credit.
Greg
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:57 p.m.
Pretty well proves yet again that the President and Regents of this school are much more about trying to do "social engineering" than caring about the students themselves. Lumping the military with illegal lawbreakers (they and their parents knowingly broke the law - fact) is showing just how much these administrators think they can use the respect of the military to get what they want.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
This comment makes no sense whatsoever. How does offering in-state tuition rates to Michiganders prove that the regents don't care about the students? And to assume that some 3 year old kid "knowingly broke the law" when her parents brought her to Michigan is an utterly bizarre idea.
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:53 p.m.
Forget about the monetary aspect of this for a second. How can you justify allowing someone here illegally to be given a precious admission slot ahead of an American citizen, a Michigander who has lived here their entire life? Lots of indignation but no suggestions. We need to do two things: 1. Have the legislature make the universities check for legal status. It should be illegal for illegals to be admitted. 2. Term limits the regents like other state elected offices. Larry Deitch has been there for decades and is becoming part of the furniture.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:44 p.m.
Who said anything about "precious admission slots"? This is about in-state tuition from people from, duh, in-state. They're free to apply now but would have to pay out-of-state tuition.
JRW
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:58 p.m.
Excellent points. Illegal immigrants will be taking up slots from qualified US citizens. Illegal = illegal.
grovestresident
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:53 p.m.
REALLY, this is so not right!!!!! How can anyone list US Military (who sacrifice their lives for this country) in the same category as an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT!!! They are not undocumented immigrant's, they are ILLEGAL'S not UNDOCUMENTED!!! They came into this country illegally. If they want the same rights as American they need to go back to whatever country they came from, submit the proper paperwork and enter this country on an educational or work visa. Then go through the process and become citizens. My ancestors had to come via immigration laws. Why are we giving people that have either broken the law or their parents have broken then law a discount on education. First of all, when applying for college they should have to show citizenship to whatever country they are from. I'm so tired of paying for ILLEGALS while young people who are here legally or born here lose out because there are not enough slots for everyone that wants to attend the U OF M!!!! Why not just let anyone in the WHOLE COUNTRY get the in-state tuition price??????
Bubba43
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:50 p.m.
Soldiers yes un-authorized immigrants NO. What is wrong with this picture/brain?
JRW
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:45 p.m.
Unauthorized = illegal. The media needs to start calling it what it is. I agree that military service members should get a tuition break. I disagree that illegal immigrants should get any kind of tuition break. Illegal = illegal. Why on earth would the regents want to reward illegal behavior?
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:29 a.m.
@ JRW, OK, I want ALL UM students tested to see if they have EVER done anything illegal. If they have, THEY will be called illegal, and should turn themselves into police. This includes drinking under age of 21
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:32 a.m.
This lunacy of using these new made up terms and creative wording simply shows how disconnected the media elites have become from everyday people. It's a real shame that soldiers are dying and coming back with missing limbs only to get the same benefit of someone who disregarded what that soldier was fighting for and could care less.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:59 p.m.
It's not the kid's fault. We educate the children of citizens who commit terrible crimes to our society.
viacell
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:44 p.m.
Things get strange when you are in Ann Arbor. Politician here have very different idea on "fairness" and they know how to sneak unpopular ideas through the system. They portray themselves as "humanitarian". They know that when they run for other public offices, they get the votes from a group of people that they portrayed themselves to help. It is always easy to throw money at people. America has really changed. Ann Arbor is at the forefront of this change.
ChicagoAtlanta
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:36 p.m.
Wonderful - we follow the rules and pay for a BS/MS as a non-resident without a DOLLAR of scholarship (White Males Need Not Apply for Them) and now the illegal aliens get it for free. Time for Engineering, Business School, Pharmacy and Music School donations to stop. Let the illegal aliens fund the place since they are getting it for free.
snark12
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:24 a.m.
Where did it say anything about free? You should read more closely.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:32 p.m.
Is "undocumented" the same as someone who commits a crime of forgery or fraud by using a fake ID? Isn't that a felony?
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5:41 a.m.
Johnnya2, being an American citizen who breaks the law is not the same thing as being in this country illegally. If you can't figure that out you need to educate yourself. But in case you hadn't noticed, citizens who break the law also lose their privileges, depending on the nature of their crimes, and we already "monitor" Michigan colleges for underage drinking.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:23 a.m.
No it is the same as someone who drinks alcohol before they reach the age of 21. I suppose we should start monitoring that at Michigan colleges too. It IS a CRIME. and ILLEGAL. It is on the EXACT same level of crime
Davidian
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:28 p.m.
To align and equate veterans - who risk their lives to serve and protect our country - with illegal immigrants in unreal. It is dispicable, disgusting, and completely uncalled for. Illegal immigrants have one rightful place - on a deporatation plane back to their home country.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:24 p.m.
Just goes to show things don't have to make one bit of sense. Are illegal immigrants able to get scholarships and grants to U.S. public universities as well?
Betty
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.
Let's draft the illegal immigrants and give veterans free college.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:25 p.m.
AMEN!!!
Just Be Nice
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:20 p.m.
Michigan Tech offers in-state tuition to out-of-state students who are the offspring or spouse of a person on active U.S. military duty. http://www.mtu.edu/news/stories/2007/december/story10389.html
Elaine F. Owsley
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:19 p.m.
That in-state tuition break for veterans is exactly why our son enrolled in Iowa State. They said, get a local address and you can have in-state tuition. He saved a bundle over the route to his master's degree.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:15 p.m.
While immigration reform gets sorted out, do you want the kids living here educated or uneducated? Those are your choices.
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5:38 a.m.
I love how people always assume that illegal aliens are poor and downtrodden, and that they are all from Mexico. Are you aware that large numbers of highly educated people from Europe and India and China and the rest of Asia come here with H1B work visas to work at high-paying technical jobs for companies like GM and IBM, etc., and stay years after their visas expire? Should their kids get tuition breaks too? Not everyone here illegally is a refugee from the lettuce fields.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:35 a.m.
I don't want them living here at all. Take them to the nearest bus or plane terminal and send them to the country of their legal citizenship. If you want to blame anyone, blame the parent of family member who put them in that situation.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:04 p.m.
Solitude If an undocumented kid gets good enough grades in high school to be admitted to UM, then that kid has worked hard and is dedicated. They probably had to overcome economic obstacles just to get that far. There is a good chance, therefore, that they have great potential to contribute to our society as a college educated professional.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:34 p.m.
Once again, it's not as simple as that. A path to citizenship for 17 and 18 yr old's that includes some tuition break at successful completion is a better choice than enabling continued defiance of the law. Besides, the premise of the article is that they already have at least a high-school education, so they are not "uneducated."
CONCERNED CITIZEN
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:15 p.m.
They are ILLEGAL not UNAUTHORIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ILLEGAL, they should get nothing including schooling BEFORE college!
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:21 a.m.
People who speed are ILLEGAL too. People who 'fudge" numbers on their taxes are ILLEGAL too. People who smoked pot are ILLEGAL too. People who drank alcohol and a BAC above .08 are ILLEGAL too. People who had an alcoholic beverage before the age of 21 are ILLEGAL too.
KMHall
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:12 a.m.
So the kids roam the streets without any education? They "should" be able to make a living in their home country but they can't. They "shouldn't" have to cross the desert to get work, but apparently they do. If their country is broken, they WILL come whether you or I want them to break the law. No one "should" have to live "illegally" but if we can't get their country to incentivize their workers, they and their children will be here anyway. It's a highly undesirable situation, but we protect our society by trying to educate whomever arrives.
cornelius McDougenschniefferburgenstein jr. 3 esq.
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:11 p.m.
anyone who knows what matriculated means is entitled to in state tuition rates.anyone who does must allready have a doctorate in linguistics so its moot.my guess is the act of tricking somone related into matrimony.
IjustWorkHere
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:53 p.m.
we should just eliminate the borders all together. Let everyone just come and go as they please. Then we can be a real "free" country.
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:05 p.m.
Then the entire world can get free education, free medical care, free food and housing, and even free accommodations in prison plus whatever other free services they require. It will be Utopia.
Tizz
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:36 p.m.
We already did, didn't we?
DJBudSonic
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:50 p.m.
This is not cool at all. I assume that the reason in-state tuition is lower is because you and/or your family had, for some length of time, paid property taxes, income taxes, and other taxes and fees to the state, therefore, you are considered a contributing citizen of the state. If you have not, and are here 'illegally", you cannot be considered a contributing citizen of the State of Michigan, and do not qualify for this tuition rate. As for the veterans, I am more likely to concede that their service counts as contributing to the welfare of the state.
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5:31 a.m.
KMHall, I have lived out West, and I have seen massive enforcement sweeps of illegals from hotels and restaurants, and I have also seen many employers get arrested and/or seriously fined for hiring illegals. There are plenty of people to do those jobs, but employers have a vested in interest in attracting and hiring large numbers of illegal service workers because it saves them the expense of payroll taxes. Besides, no where did I say that the work of illegals isn't valuable. I said they shouldn't be rewarded by state or federal institutions for violating the law. I think people who want to become citizens should have an opportunity to do so. I think that people who choose to ignore the law should be either deported or locked up.
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5:25 a.m.
JohnnyA2, renters do not pay property taxes, property owners do, but since my post was talking about payroll taxes, I fail to see the relevance of your post.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:18 a.m.
@ Solitude, WRONG., The proposal says the child must have been in MICHIGAN schools since middle school. SO that is at least 5 years. In that time do you think the people in their family bought anything? They PAID taxes on it. If they rented a living space, they paid property taxes in the state. They supply MONEY to the state every single day, The idea that they are sucking at the teet of the state is the lie that the right wing pulls out to demonize them. A sfor breaking the law, I hear people every day talk about how they stretch the truth about their tax liability. That is a CRIMINAL act that has not been caught. Should we perform audits on every person who wants in state tuition to make sure their mom and dads have never committed a crime?
KMHall
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:07 a.m.
Solitude The employers out west say that if it were not for the undocumented workers, no one would do the jobs.
Tizz
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.
GOOD POINT!
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:28 p.m.
KMHall, that is incorrect. It's a fine distinction, but employers benefit from the work of illegals, not the economy. The argument could be made that successful employers make for a successful economy, but the other side of that coin is millions in both employer- and employee-paid payroll taxes that are never collected, a reduction in entry-level job availability for our teenagers, and increased but unfunded burdens on our hospitals, child welfare organizations and law enforcement agencies, etc. Pretending it's a black and white issue is a mistake.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:14 p.m.
People on welfare get in state tuition. Some undocumented families work for every dime they spend and our economy reaps benefits from their work.
Timber
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:46 p.m.
Disgusted that UM Regents make this proposal to further an illegal alien agenda. Cute disguise they're attempting to use ... I can picture the thought bubbles over the Regents collective brain trust - "we'll also attach US Milatary to this so the public won't be so outraged". To lump our brave Military personnel into the same proposal for tuition break with people WHO HAVE BROKEN THE LAW - really??!! Shame.
Madhatter
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:37 a.m.
This is what happens when you put democrats in charge. Can I ask who you voted for?
Coach1961
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:37 p.m.
I think all military, who are active or honorably discharged, should received in-state tuition at ALL education institutions...not just U of M. As for the "unauthorized," or in my world illegal, why would they be given any consideration?
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.
Could not agree more!
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:37 p.m.
Gee. nobody gets their memos anymore. This is all about innocent little children. Installing a State snitch hotline is not about the KGB or Gestapo, either. It is not about government spying like China did during their "Cultural Revolution". When their University intellectuals disappeared right and left. This is all about innocent little children. Want to submit any questionable policy like this one? Just remember - It is all about the innocent little children. And our patriotic troops now for good measure, too!
David Cahill
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:36 p.m.
Watch how the two Republican regents vote. Republicans love the military, but they loathe undocumented aliens. Which way will they go? Packaging the two categories together was darn clever of the Administration.
Thaddeus
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:27 p.m.
Yes and No David. The undocumented (illegal) aliens are an interesting issue in that there is a sizable block of both the Republicans and Democrats who support and oppose their presense as well as aiding and abetting them. There are the Republicans that you refer to that see the undocumented (illegal) aliens as the threat to National safety, financial well-being, etc. that they are. There are also the Republicans who push for deregulation, business-knows-best mentality. This latter portion of Republicans thrive-on, encourage, and very much want the undocumented (illegal) aliens. An over-abundant supply of labor that can be exploited to the nth degree, paid virtually nothing, are the ultimate disposable commodity, cannot speak-out about abuses in fear of deportation is a sci-fi fantasy come true for this latter group of Republicans. Then there are the Democrats who also very much understand the severe threat to National security, the well-being and financial health, and a common-sense concept of fairness for prioritizing law-abiding U.S. Citizens and LEGAL immigrants who play by the rules. And finally there is the latter group of Democrats who seem to believe in a social free-for-all with open borders. While this "bleeding heart" group of Democrats may feel and sound noble on one level, they are quick to forget about the millions of their fellow law-abiding Americans who are losing everything and cannot even afford to see a doctor in many cases. A situation that countless millions of undocumented (illegal) aliens only makes worse.... An interesting issue that has the potential of strong bi-partisanship solution. Most hot political issues do not seem to have as many people on both sides of the aisle who really understand the over-all impacts to the Country (and not just their own narrow interests)....
f4phantomII
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:46 p.m.
Craven.
walker101
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:21 p.m.
Seems that the majority voters are all Democrats, go figure.You guys can't even get that right.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:21 p.m.
David This should not be a partisan issue. But since you brought it up. It was like has been said an underhanded/ cowarrdly move that would be blasted by democrats if tried on another subject by republicans.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:14 p.m.
I don't think I'd call it clever. I think I'd call it cowardly, indefensible and weak-minded. It displays an embarrassing lack of strength of character, and reminds me of nothing more than those who use old people and little kids as shields when they know they are being pursued. If the regents or other powers that be felt that strongly about the illegals issue, if they had a strong or compelling case to make in favor, they should have faced the public, presented their case in a straightforward manner and worked to gain support. That's what people of integrity do. Crackheads and losers hide behind others and hope no one will notice them trying to sneak in the back door.
DJBudSonic
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:46 p.m.
Clever? More like conniving.
EyeHeartA2
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:45 p.m.
Yep, it certainly says something about the Democrats, doesn't it?
EyeHeartA2
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:31 p.m.
One group served this country. One group is actively breaking the laws of this country. ...and we want to treat them the same. Un-freakin'-believable.
Bleeding Michigan
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:28 p.m.
Tell me... How many Solders, Marines, Sailors, or Airmen are going to have over $52,000 ( just tuition) to spend over a Four Year period to attend the UM? Nice thought...Few takers... Now those undocumented aliens should have lots of cash... especially if their income is on a CASH only "Business", and paid no taxes...(So go get 'em Snyder/Richardville... where is that Shared Sacrifice taxation policy)?
Adam Betz
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:23 p.m.
Bleeding, actually every service member (veteran) with an honorable discharge receives up to 48 months of GI Bill coverage if they have served for at least 3 years on active duty (or a reservist that has been activated for federal deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan) since 11 September 2001. The new Post 9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) provides 100% tuition paid at ANY school, a housing allowance per month and pays for the cost of books at the beginning of each semester. So, of all the 945,000 American veterans utilizing GI Bill benefits could attend U of M...and if they run out of that, there are always student loans and scholarships. Few want to attend U of M because of the negative attitudes they perceive they will receive from that particular institution. There are many other choices in our great state...contrary to popular belief, "THE University" is not the only one around.
Patrick Maurer
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:04 p.m.
I'm sorry but if the regents approve unauthorized immigrants in state tuition, I will work to defeat them in the next election. We are paying taxes that are high enough and the tuition rates are continuing to rise every year. With this change someone will be paying the extra cost and it sure won't be the unauthorized immigrants.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:40 p.m.
what extra cost? are you under the impression that the UofM is teeming with undocumented immigrants paying out-of-state tuition rates? lol.
kay
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:47 p.m.
Any military individual who has fought for our country should get free tuition any where in America they so choose. An illegal(unauthorized) immigrant is lucky they are here---and should pay even more than out of state students since they are breaking the law and living off of my money----truth be said. My nephew with a 4.00 could not even get in to his own state university because we have to be so "diverse and fair" to all these other countries. Something is really wrong with this picture.
glimmertwin
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:47 p.m.
I agree with the veterans... but one dime goes to unauthorized immigrants than every tax break or government funding source should be halted immediately.
Solitude
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:20 p.m.
@cassamandra, so now all illegals are Mexican? Not hardly.
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:39 p.m.
What a brilliant scheme! drive up tuition for everybody! yay! if it hurts a single Mexican, it's surely worth it, right, glimmertwin?
cubicle
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:40 p.m.
This country's immigration policies are a broken mess. This, though, I think I side with. What reason do you look a kid in the eye and give to the contrary? "Sorry, your parents did something bad and although your busted your ass to get good grades and get into this school, here's another hurdle we're going to put in your way." I can't imagine there are a ton of 10 and 11 year olds looking to illegally cross the border to make a better life for themselves in Michigan so the decision to live here couldn't have been their own. Hell, a lot of people who already live here legally don't see a future and want to leave. Let's be honest, it's not like UM really covets in-state students anyway.
Thaddeus
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:54 p.m.
Fordie - You hit on the problem. That is these illegals can potentially obtain (or be given) U.S. Citizenship (or tuition and other State/ U.S. benefits) under any circumstance. There are millions around the world who are in que to come here LEGALLY. They are making great efforts to conform to the laws and requirements of the Land, paying enormous sums, extensive waiting and bureaucracy, going through extensive screening, background checks, medical background, etc., etc. for that opportunity. To even talk about putting illegals (criminals) ahead of U.S. Citizens and LEGAL immigrants for tuition, Citizenship, or the time of day is disgusting....
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:17 p.m.
If they are old enough to attend college and of legal aid, they're also old enough to get themselves to the country in which they are legal residents.
Fordie
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:55 p.m.
There's nothing stopping them for applying for residency. It just takes years and years.
djm12652
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:42 p.m.
If they are old enough to attend college and of legal aid, what's stopping them for applying for residency? Can't blame the parents when the children are of the age to remedy the situation.
YouSaidWhat?
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:34 p.m.
I do hope there will be two seperate motions. To equate military veterans to illegal aliens is a disgrace to those who have served THIS country. This is PC BS. While Michigan students faces tuition increases those here illegally get a break?????????
Basic Bob
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:46 a.m.
So it's only 70% off - and they can still qualify for a scholarship.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:11 p.m.
They will pay the same in-state tuition. They're not getting a full ride scholarship.
teeters
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:29 p.m.
How do illegal immigrants with a college education get a real job after college? No employer will hire an illegal "undocumented" worker, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW! Thus, the spots these students are taking from documented, legal students is a waste. UofM would NEVER hire an illegal/undocumented worker, why then do they allow them to go to school here?
Tizz
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:30 p.m.
Good point.
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:44 p.m.
Simple. The Obama administration gives them alternate tax id numbers. It has been reported to Congress by the GAO/IRS that they are using them to get BILLIONS in earned income tax credit refunds right now.
Howard Beale
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:28 p.m.
I find this "maneuver" utterly disgusting....lumping our beloved U.S. military veterans with illegal aliens in order to get the illegal alien agenda pushed through. The regents should be ashamed.
Eep
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:26 a.m.
This "maneuver" is being made by AA.com. The University seems to be considering the issue of veteran tuition and alien tuition separately - they could pass one but not the other - neither - or both. This website just decided to combine it into one story in the most sensational way possible for obvious reasons.
John of Saline
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:28 p.m.
On another note, I bet the comment-monitors at AnnArbor.com sigh and think "here we go..." when stories that will get scads of comments, like this one, are published.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:15 p.m.
John of Saline, I hope they love it, because it pays their salaries.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:02 p.m.
The more clicks they can earn, the more advertising they can attract and the more money they can charge for advertising. They are probably very pleased when articles inspire lots of interest.
Tim Hornton
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:50 p.m.
Nope they get excited. They love removing well thought out comments that they disagree with. Being subjective and closed minded is what Ann Arbor news stands for (like most of the people here). This comment might even get sent to comment heavan for biting the hand that feeds it.
annarboral
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:27 p.m.
So let me get this right. If I'm a foreign student and I'm here legally then I pay the full out of state tuition. However, if I'm an illegal immigrant I get in state tuition. So if I'm an intelligent foreign student then I'll do whatever it takes to become an illegal? Is this really what our country has become?
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:08 p.m.
annarboral No intelligent foreign student would suffer the consequences of "becoming illegal" just to save the money. The logic is silly.
Thaddeus
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:50 p.m.
Which brings us to the question - Why on Earth are illegals getting a full-ride schooling from the beginning on our dime? I long ago started questioning why we have "laws" in the U.S. when multi-gazillion-$Dollar$ entities like the UofM can ignore and break them at will....?
Ross
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:43 p.m.
what seldon said. Try reading the article.
seldon
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:41 p.m.
No. It's only for illegal immigrants who attended middle and high school in Michigan. If you were here legally and attended middle and high school in Michigan, you would already get in-state tuition.
John of Saline
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:26 p.m.
I know a lifelong Michigan resident who just went through a two-month interrogation, involving invasive document demands, to "prove" residency for in-state tuition. What will it be for the euphemistically-designated "undocumented"?
A2comments
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:52 p.m.
Invasive? Not really. We moved back here in '07 and had to do that paperwork. Then, in 2010 we had to do it again, for our next child. We tried "you already have the paperwork", but that didn't fly. Multiple sets of paperwork, as I recall requested in two different batches. Invasive? No. Annoying, yes. But if it prevents those that shouldn't be receiving in-state tuition from getting it, I'm all for it.
ChicagoAtlanta
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:45 p.m.
The illegal alien will not be required to prove anything. That way they get whatever they want for free. Just like the other 47% of freeloaders we support.
John of Saline
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:12 p.m.
Wrongo, KMHall. Try again.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:09 p.m.
Apparently the kid didn't go to Middle and High School in Michigan.
walker101
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:25 p.m.
Equality at its best, those who volunteered in the military to protect your rights as a citizen are treated equally as a non citizen or unauthorized person. Makes sense to me.
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:25 p.m.
The military used to have a GI Bill that paid the way for its soldiers. If there were such a benefit for those providing a critical service to this Nation then State border pricing wouldn't be an issue. As it now sits, passage of the Immigration Bill is unlikely. What legalities then arise for the University trying to provide a favoritism for illegal aliens over U.S. citiaens? At what point do these "innocent kids" of illegal alens stop getting Obama's special status designation? With no Immigration law change that decree is due for a challenge. Are any subsequent new comers still considered "innocent victims" after the Executive Order declaration had been publicized - thus allowing parents to specifically jump the border since just to give their own "innocent kids" the same legal status? That is just plain unpatriotic favoritism - whomever endorses it. The University should be smarter than that.
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:28 p.m.
Ya ya ya Spelled "Delaware". The Incorporation State. Home State of the Vice President. Without a Medical School.
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:23 p.m.
Thanks for that. Looks like Senators from Montana and Deleware didn't think any of their vets wanted to go to medical school when the Bill was drafted. (there is no Med School in those States so they would have to go "capped tuition" out state if they could afford that). The Bill should be overhauled to pay tuition period. In the mean time the University should be commended for offering that benefit to veterens. Denounced for trying to tie both types of allowances together. That smacks of a bent rule without a clue. As in Washington D.C.. Like Elvis, the NWO master planner left the stage long ago.
AMOC
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:05 p.m.
LXIX - The military still has benefits that help veterans or active duty service members to pay tuition. It is capped at a maximum dollar value OR in-state tuition. This change would make it possible for more veterans to choose UM, no matter if they had previous Michigan residency or not.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7 p.m.
I believe there is a GI Bill currently. Last I knew, it was around $40K for college. Maybe someone knows if that's changed.
Tex Treeder
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:24 p.m.
This is easy: In-state tuition should be for legal Michigan residents, not for illegal aliens. I'm okay with expanding in-state tuition rates to military vets. That certainly would have made a big difference to me in my student days. Timing is everything.
seldon
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:17 p.m.
The limitation that they have to have graduated from a Michigan middle school and high school should really narrow the scope for unauthorized immigrants. I was prepared to get annoyed at this (why should they get treated better than Ohioans, for example) but if they have to prove long-term residency in the state, I'm fine with it. And I don't think it will be a lot of people. The thing with military seems like a no-brainer to me.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:58 p.m.
Seldon, why should we reward people who manage to evade the law for a longer period of time over those who evade it for less time? Why should we reward people who choose to live outside the law at all? It's bad enough that an illegal immigrant can enroll in college here at all, now we want to make it even less expensive? If you think about it, the longer someone lives here illegally, the less excuse they have for failing to obtain citizenship. Sneak into Mexico, or Great Britain or Canada or wherever illegally, then demand resident tuition and other economic benefits. Let me know how that works out.
seldon
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:42 p.m.
Half of California attended middle school and high school in Michigan? That's a real problem. Are you serious?
easy123
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:24 p.m.
It would be 1/2 of California in that state- I am being sacrastic!
1bit
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:12 p.m.
Kellie, Do we have an idea of how many "unauthorized immigrants" have attended both middle school and high school in Michigan and are also accepted to the University of Michigan? 10? 100? 1000? I don't particularly care for this as it seems to discriminate against legal out-of-state residents and "authorized" immigrants, but if the number of these students is sufficiently small then maybe I can understand it. Maybe...
1bit
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 8:24 p.m.
@Kellie: Thanks again!
Kellie Woodhouse
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 5 p.m.
1bit, it took me a beat to get back to you, but the university spokesperson is saying U-M doesn't track those numbers. I'll try to approach a U-M official at the regents meeting and see if I can get a range.
Jack
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:39 a.m.
I'm not convinced it is such a small number. According to the NTY, and unfortunately I don't have the reference, by 2050 the United States will be 50% Hispanic, largely, of course, from the illegal population.
1bit
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:56 p.m.
@Kellie: Thanks!
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:13 p.m.
seldon Yes and I am an anonymous retired astronaut, that now works for the CIA when not writing speeches for the President!
seldon
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:44 p.m.
I favor increasing benefits, and I have a six-figure income and pay plenty of taxes. We may disagree on the issues, but stop trying to paint my side as a bunch of freeloaders.
1982 Brew Crew
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:41 p.m.
I am 90% sure we are talking about just a handful of people--10ish/year. This isn't a real/practical issue. This is a political statement. Some like the statement (the protesters of current policy) and some don't like. Like many things, most of those that favor increasing benefits themselves (look at the protesters--they are students). pay little/no taxes while those like me that favor maintaining or reducing benefits pay lots of taxes.
Kellie Woodhouse
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:24 p.m.
This is a great question and I am checking on it ASAP.
TheDiagSquirrel
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:07 p.m.
Well, they got it half right. Offering lower tuition to our military service members should be a given. But to "unauthorized" immigrants? That should not happen, let them become citizens before they get the right to discounted tuition on the taxpayers' dime.
Geoff Larcom
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:05 p.m.
Note that Eastern Michigan University has a program called Vet Connect that offers in-state tuition to military veterans. http://www.emich.edu/univcomm/releases/release.php?id=1256929618
1982 Brew Crew
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:04 p.m.
I know several illegal/unauthorized residents. Those I know are hard working, smart and honest. I invite them to my home and call them friends. But they pay no taxes other than of course sales tax. They live in a cash world. They cannot even cash a check. They send all the money they can back to family in Mexico. Contrast that with a family that has paid MI income tax for 5-10 generations and with the student applicant that has paid taxes on their summer jobs.
Rob Pollard
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:19 p.m.
Actually, the statement "they pay no taxes other than of course sales tax" is false. The IRS does not check on status - all you need it a Individual Taxpayer ID and they'll collect income, Medicare and SS taxes. Same for Michigan. They have nothing to do with ICE (formerly INS). There are certainly plenty of illegal immigrants not on the "books" but there are a surprisingly (at least to me) large amount who are. In Michigan alone, they paid $28 million in state income taxes, $12 million in property taxes (and $100 million in sales taxes) in 2010. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes-2012-3 http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/General-ITIN-Information
cassamandra
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:34 p.m.
You mean, you know several immigrants who are exploited by their non-immigrant employers who save big by withholding benefits from them, and you're more troubled by what little they can save to send back to Mexico than by the 32 trillion Americans hide in offshore accounts? And can you explain how those friends of yours manage to avoid real estate tax (certainly the biggest item on my tax list)? Do their landlords just deduct it from their rent through some weird scheme?
LXIX
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:18 p.m.
"They send all the money they can back to family in Mexico" BINGO! In 2009, Mexican workers, mostly illegal aliens, sent home $21.2 billion. That is just Mexico. Most legal immigrants work hard to build a new life in the U.S. by investing in their future - here in the law-abiding U.S.. Hispanic culture in the South, however, dictates that friends and family and tradition trump State law-and-order systems. That is one reason why there is a whole new generation of illegal immigrants even though the issue had been "resolved" twice before by Congress. Somebody on the inside helped break the law. But the UM would know about that history and social economics, right?
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:03 p.m.
I find it a particularly cynical ploy to lump an initiative to extend in-state tuition to military veterans, which I support, together with in-state tuition for illegal alien residents. When you consider that veterans risk their lives and often suffer disfiguring, life-altering injuries to protect the very constitution and law of the land that illegal immigrants flagrantly defy, it becomes seriously offensive. "Undocumented" means "illegal". That is a fact. Is UofM going to offer in-state tuition to people who are driving on suspended driver's licenses now, and those who violate restraining orders, shoplift and commit assault? University regents apparently think they can condone and actually sanction breaking of some laws, but not others? If driving while intoxicated suddenly becomes en vogue, will those people get tuition breaks also?
Tim Hornton
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 1:32 p.m.
JohnyA2... . You're free to make comments like that (which made no sense) because of thousands and thousands of dead service people and millions of others who sacrificed parts of their lives. Nobody is saying illegal allien kids have done anything wrong either but if they should have the same tuition rates. Besides being in prison, joining the military is the closest thing to having many right and privileges taken away... And doing it voluntarily and being innocent is that much more noble. God help this country if people like you don't appreciate or understand that. Go Blue!
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 4:04 a.m.
@ Tim Hornton, Did you JOIN the military and CHOOSE it, or were you drafted? If you made the choice, why should the rest of us PAY for YOUR choice? You did get PAID a salary (just as int he civilian world) to do a job. You also can leave when your contract is up. YOU made the choice to be away from your family, but WE are all expected to pay for it? How ridiculous is that? Oh and for the record, in state service members ALREADY qualify for the GI Bill, and get all tuition and fee payments paid for. Why should a person who has never set foot in Michigan get to use the university and then take the talent they get from the state to another state? As for the CHILDREN of undocumented people, I would point out that a middle school child does not usually have a CHOICE in where the parents end up living, whether documented or not. So in YOUR world you would punish CHILDREN for the things their parents did. I guess we shoudl take that to the next level and start looking at YOUR ancestors and making sure there has never been any criminal behavior
Jack
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:35 a.m.
@GoNavy - You've tried this before, saying immigration is a civil issue. It is incorrect, you know it is incorrect, yet you keep deliberately disseminating this disinformation. It is a criminal offense. You know it. It is one thing to be mistaken; another to deliberately pass out information that is untrue.
Tim Hornton
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:02 a.m.
LOL Navy, I made "Smart" bombs and worked on and transported live missiles, rockets, 30mm and 20mm, and all kinds of other "death" to F16 and A10 birds... And often gave a hand loading them. My job was to support killing and destroying the enemy and their stuff, as is the major mission of all military men and women. It ain't pretty and it aint what the "civilian world is like." The sacrifice away from loved ones isn"t civilian either! The Military IS NOT A JOB YOU CAN JUST QUIT when you had enough.
Silly Sally
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:28 p.m.
Illegal aliens who graduate from Michigan high schools should get in state tuition. But if discovered to be illegal aliens, then they should be deported. Upholding the law is not that hard.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:16 p.m.
No, GoNavy, the act of entering the country illegally is not a civil infraction. It is a misdemeanor the first time, and a felony thereafter, as Jay Thomas posted. Additionally, if false documents or other circumstances exist, those crimes are usually felonies. "USC › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part VIII › § 1325 8 USC § 1325 - Improper entry by alien Current through Pub. L. 113-9. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." The section goes on to outline additional civil penalties, then states "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed. "
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:09 p.m.
I question the validity of GoNavy as a moniker given the comments.
DonBee
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:47 p.m.
Go Navy - I served, I did not sit in some rear area supply depot. My father and grandfather served, they also did not hide in a supply depot. You may have, I find the use of Go Navy - the cheer for USNA somewhat counter-intuitive given your comments. I honestly don't know any national guard or regular service folks who have not done a tour or two in Iraq or Afghanistan if they served a full term in the last 10 years. The exception maybe sailors who serve on submarines. Your number may be historically accurate, but I doubt they are accurate for the time period 2002-2012.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:09 p.m.
GoNavy I shall henceforth reply to any of your comments by addressing any reference by you as a fake.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:06 p.m.
GONavy I would bet MOST active or retired armed forces men and women would find your logic disgraceful!
GoNavy
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:59 p.m.
@Jay Thomas: Actually, entering the country illegally is a civil infraction (not even a misdemeanor).
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:48 p.m.
Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. If they deport you and you come back it becomes a felony. GoNavy left that part out.
Solitude
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:49 p.m.
@GoNavy, kindly notice where I said the Constitution "and the law of the land." Criminal or civil, felony or misdemeanor has no bearing. And your suggestion that never seeing combat somehow diminishes the validity of a veteran's service is just silly. Way to evade the point. The members of our military uphold our freedom and a way of life that is based on law and order, for which many have died and otherwise sacrificed, whether they lick stamps for four years or search out IEDs. The current fashion trend of renaming illegal activity to make to more socially acceptable doesn't change the facts. I
GoNavy
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:35 p.m.
@Tim Hornton: I'm not "speaking for myself." The statistic I cited was real, and pretty consistent back at least a century. Yep: Most people in the military don't fight. They cook; they do laundry. They do accounting. They file paperwork. They braid ropes for anchoring. They measure the sun's position in the sky for backup navigation purposes. And so on. If you think that your national guard experience was "unlike anything in the civilian world," then either you had a really terrible time in the National Guard or you have no idea what the civilian world is like.
Tim Hornton
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:23 p.m.
Speak for yourself "Navy" I served 6 years in the national guard. From basic training to my ETS, the experience was unlike anything in civilian world. These illegal undocumented aliens are sucking our resources left and right. That being said the businesses that hire the ones not sucking the welfare pay them "on the side" so no taxes are being generated. Is it fair for a kid from Ohio to pay 40000 a year to not be called a walmart wolverine and an illegal to go here for 13000 a year and have thousands less in debt? If I lived in most any other country I would live here illegaly if I could too but it's highly unlikely any illegal aliens paid much taxes here in our state to get the Walmart discount at UM a veteran has earned. Go Blue!
GoNavy
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
Less than 10% of military personnel ever see combat (or are exposed to front-line combat conditions). For the other 90%, the military is just another job. Immigration is not a Constitutional issue (you note that illegal immigrants are 'flagrantly defying it') - it's a civil issue, which is why illegal immigrants are committing nothing more than a civil infraction when they enter illegally. On the other hand, the other infractions you've mentioned (driving w/o a valid license, shoplifting, assault) are misdemeanors and felonies.
DonBee
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:03 p.m.
I have no problem with the military benefits. None at all, they served, and they should get the thanks for what they did. I do have a problem with the "unauthorized immigrants" - what would stop anyone from out of state from saying "I am undocumented" but I have lived in a cash only household in Michigan? Now University of Michigan you have to prove I am lying. To save $25,000 a year, you don't think someone (many someones) would do this? I do. Let the immigration bill get through Congress, then take this up in October or November. Once it passes, then it will be the Federal Government's job to sort it out and hand out the ID cards. But then again the UofM has very deep pockets, they can afford the lawsuits that will follow.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:50 a.m.
@ DonBee, Well i suppose if that is the case, ANYBODY could fake ANY high school diploma ever. Of course in ANYTHING ever done in life there is a possibility of fraud. People get credit cards, mortgages and social security that way. You are saying "many someones" a year are willing to commit a crime to save $25k per year. Of course I find it ironic that nowhere do you question a person who could LIE and say their parents served and got fake documents to lower their tuition. These cases would be much harder to go after since nobody in their family ever had to live in Michigan at ANY time in their life. SO tell us why a CHILD of a person who made a choice to be in the military should get SPECIAL treatment? If the child wants that cheaper tuition and lower tuition is the goal, they could always join the service themselves and get an education
Eep
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 11:52 p.m.
@Don - If that was the case, wouldn't people from out of state already be using fake credentials from small rural schools to get in-state tuition? I've never heard of even a single person committing this type of fraud, and I think it would be much more difficult to pull off than you think.
DonBee
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 6:11 p.m.
Eep - How hard would it be to fake a diploma or transcript from a small rural school?
seldon
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:45 p.m.
Then that should be fixed. Anyone who attended middle and high school in MI should be eligible for in-state tuition.
kris
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
Eep: I know a family who kids graduated from Huron but they were denied in-state tuition at U-M because the dad had to take a job out-of state when he lost his in Michigan.
Eep
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:06 p.m.
I'm not sure that I support this policy for other reasons, but as long as they only offer this to students who graduated from a Michigan high school there shouldn't be a problem with people from out-of-state doing what you've described.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:54 p.m.
The monetary investment will be well worthwhile. More education = more productivity. Long range benefits and savings will be tremendous.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:41 p.m.
jcj You don't have to be a math genius to figure out how much is costs to society to have uneducated people.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:04 p.m.
KM Please indicate how you came to such a ridiculous conclusion.
Jay Thomas
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:35 p.m.
Most college graduates go out of state after graduation and take their Michigan subsidized education with them.
Ken
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:45 p.m.
To propose the same in-state tuition benefits and consideration at U-M for military still in active service, as well as those who have been honorably discharged, with that of unauthorized immigrants, is an injustice to those who have served this country well, with many sacrifices that military personnel and their families make on a daily basis.
johnnya2
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:42 a.m.
So you propose SPECIAL treatment for CHILDREN of military people because of what? Their moms or dads served in the military? Yet you think it is ok to punish CHILDREN who have lived in the US since they were in middle school and through no fault of their own have been deemed illegal? For the record the argument could be made that ANY of you who are not 100% native are here illegally. YOUR ancestors came here illegally and stole land that belonged to others.
mpope
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.
ken, your point is very well made. i agree entirely.
Tizz
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.
Ken, it is about residency issues.
ChicagoAtlanta
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:41 p.m.
Ken - when we asked about non-resident tuition rules, we were told military families - ACTIVE - qulafied for resident tuition. I do not know if that has changed so the article may be misleading - And what would you expect from TUOM - families that work hard and save get nothing. The freeloaders get the freebies and more.
Barbara Brown
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:40 p.m.
Look forward to all of the angry commenters coming out of the closet.
Robert E.
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:50 a.m.
You didnt even read what I said in my initial post...I was referring to ChiAtl complaining about their white kids being charged full fee and the astonishing inability of many whites to appreciate the advantages and free passes which simply being white provides in this world we live in, especially in higher education...I really dont need you to point out to me that George Zimmerman is hispanic...Im well aware...my comment refers to people of color and how many white doods in this country recoil when it involves doing something for someone other than themselves... There are always exceptions but in general the rule holds...people of color, be they citizens of this country or not, bear the enormous brunt of barriers to higher education and also the brunt of horrific gun violence...this is the truth throughout the world... And seriously, if we're being real, when was the last time you heard of a case of a black man getting acquitted of essentially baiting a white or hispanic kid into attacking them and then gunning them down because the kid tried to protect themselves from a man stalking them in their own neighborhood... I'll politely decline to reply to your initial question...
jcj
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 3:10 a.m.
Robert E Did you get your feelings hurt? How many time is a young black man needlessly gunned down by another young black man? And too many young black men have been gunned down by white men. By the way George Zimmerman is Hispanic. It is offensive to me that you insinuate young black men cannot go to the store in this country without being gunned down by white men! That is a bald faced lie that does more than distort the truth. "they never have to worry about getting gunned down by some wanna be rent-a-cop after they stop by their local party store to pick up some skittles" That is offensive!
Robert E.
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 2:59 a.m.
mpope Im not gonna write a dissertation to rebut nonsense..."yes the poor white males in our society...so bullied and downtrodden"...gimme a break! Im not exploiting anything either...Im commenting on the fact that many in this country have no concept of how racial dynamics play out in this country be it having to do with immigration or having to do with gun violence which is the number one cause of death for black males age 15-19!!! As a white and privileged male, its obvious to me that people of color always always end up getting the short end of the stick...thats the truth...the death of Trayvon Martin was totally unnecessary period and most of those railing away against undocumented citizens are white doods always whining about everything they dont have rather than focusing on what they do...it would be nice if people would focus on more immediate concerns...like adequately funding our children's public education rather than freaking out about undocumented immigrants who interestingly, often end up working under the table for peanuts for the same white doods who whine about them!!! And jcj...your comment is offensive...I have walked down the street at night on the east side of Detroit several times doing outreach to help families in need...none of them had guns or were shooting at anyone!!!!! What are you trying to imply by your question? Are you saying that anywhere there is a primarily African American neighborhood Im bound to get shot? That is patently offensive to African Americans and is simply wrong...and I assure you I am not kidding!!!
mpope
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:58 a.m.
sally, clearly you think the decision was just. do you think robert e's reference to the whole debacle was just? relevant? helpful to a discussion about tuition in any way? i don't. but i typed in haste. the decision was tragic, but the prosecution was more than tragic, too. had the prosecution not demonstrated the kind of bloodthirst they portrayed as having motivated Zimmerman, they would have been content with (and won) a manslaughter charge.
JGA2trueblue
Tue, Jul 16, 2013 : 12:06 a.m.
Not angry commenters. Commenters that only want the laws of our country and our LEGAL military respected, which doesn't seem to be a priority to you Barbara. Why don't YOU go to Mexico and try to break their laws and then demand entitlements. I believe it would then be YOU who would be the angry one, in one of those luxury prisons. AND, no one is in a closet who respect laws. They just do not need to make biased, obnoxious comments to feel important.
Silly Sally
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 10:23 p.m.
"Tragic Jury Decision"? NBC edited the police tape - It was the police asking Zimmerman what race was the suspect and he replied that eh thinks that he is black. NBC edited out the [police asking the question. Very biased, intended to inflame race relations, which it did. NBC and other media mostly used old pictures of Trevon when he was younger and more innocent looking. They failed to report that he had a juvi criminal record and was suspended from school and that was why he was in Sanford in the first place. If the races of the two were reversed, there would be no trial.
jcj
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 9:07 p.m.
Robert I challenge you to drive down to the east side of Detroit tonight and walk down the street! We'll see who has the best chance of being shot! You have got to be kidding!
mpope
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:33 p.m.
Robert E, you relied on the exploitation of a tragedy and a tragic jury decision as the whole content of your rebuttal? what a shame.
mpope
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:30 p.m.
the closet is pretty empty of anyone (even 'angry commenters') opposing the idea that unauthorized immigrants receive the same sort of benefits as do our military personnel. why? because people don't keep this kind of reasonable opposition in the closet.
Robert E.
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.
Yeah life is really rough for white males ChiAtl...I guess except for being the single most powerful population group that has ever existed on the face of the earth...oh and as a bonus, they never have to worry about getting gunned down by some wanna be rent-a-cop after they stop by their local party store to pick up some skittles...seriously, get real...
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 8:13 p.m.
Almost as bad as the "I'm looking for all the angry commenters" commenters. They're the worst.
ChicagoAtlanta
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 7:38 p.m.
Angry Commenters? How about parents that are tired of the special interest groups who get everything for free? We followed the rules and paid for a BS/MS as a non-resident without a DOLLAR of scholarship (White Males Need Not Apply for Them) and now the illegal aliens get it for free. Time for Engineering, Business School, Pharmacy and Music School donations to stop. Let the illegal aliens fund the place since they are getting it for free. It is obvious you are looking for something for nothing as well.
Fordie
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 5:23 p.m.
They've been in the closet so far? I thought they already made a lot of noise.
KMHall
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:51 p.m.
My exact thoughts.
alarictoo
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:34 p.m.
Oy vey.
nickcarraweigh
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:32 p.m.
Politics makes strange bedfellows
Brad
Mon, Jul 15, 2013 : 4:31 p.m.
This should be good.