Ignatz

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 3:33 p.m.

@jcj, I saw a driver on her cell phone driving down Hill st. Friday.

jcj

Sun, Apr 18, 2010 : 4:13 p.m.

If it weren't for most drivers being so preoccupied by their own concerns while driving. They MIGHT be able to watch the road in front of them!

Anne

Sun, Apr 18, 2010 : 12:33 p.m.

There is one male student driver who I looked forward to. Drives so smooth I could stand on one leg. He responds when I say thank you, smiles and makes eye contact. Seems like a nice, pleasant person. Then one day he was driving like a maniac, not stopping at Mott where a woman waved at him and riding right on cars bumpers, stopping short and generally making everyone on board nervous. Everybody gets stressed sometimes, and I know we all want to get to Glazier Way and make that left before a line forms but theres no need to put people at risk like that.

krc

Sun, Apr 18, 2010 : 8:53 a.m.

@andrew, if this hasn't already drawn a comment, the UM busses are PACKED after shift change at the UMMC, standing room only. They take a circuitous (sp) route that ends at the Orange lot on Glazier Way. They get plenty of ridership.

Terrin

Sat, Apr 17, 2010 : 11:13 p.m.

I am not blaming the police officer. I am merely stating that the value in pulling somebody over for a minor traffic offense sometimes is outweighed by the risk to the greater public police sometimes create in the manner they choose to pull people over. Police can direct people to pull off the side of a main road where it is safe but they choose not to do so. Police cars are equipped with horns that can direct the person being pulled over where to park. If that doesn't work, police can get out of the car and tell the pulled over driver a safer place to park. I suggest police behavior sometimes is arrogant because it is obvious that sometimes the pull over is causing greater chance of damage to cars and people trying to change lanes because of the traffic pull over, but the police keep the pulled over car on the main road even when it would be easy to direct the pulled over driver off the main road.

eyeloveypsi

Sat, Apr 17, 2010 : 7:07 p.m.

huh7891 - you said it best! We, as drivers, need to patiently work around traffic stops. We never know when we will need assistance from one of our officers. Their job is very difficult and dangerous and they (in my opinion) don't get enough credit.

huh7891

Sat, Apr 17, 2010 : 9:47 a.m.

I'm having trouble understanding how a police officer getting mowed over while conducting a traffic stop could generate such blame on their behalf.. Arrogant..how could you say any traffic stop is arrogant? Again, it's simple..you break the law or traffic rules expect to get pulled over if caught. Blaming the officer for where he stops is ridiculous. Most drivers are clueless, they have the option of safely pulling into the nearest parking lot, side street or out of the flow of traffic, yet they chose to stop in the where they do. As for angling the officers car so you can't get around it.. I believe that's done as it's been proven it protects both the officer and the citizen pulled over in case some fool happens to rear end the police vehicle. Wow, what a thankless job, hope some of you never need their assistance.

jcj

Sat, Apr 17, 2010 : 9:38 a.m.

Anyone ever see bus drivers of any kind with their phone to their ear??

Terrin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:10 p.m.

Not to blame the police Officer, but I think police policy on pulling people over is ridiculous. I am surprised this type of thing doesn't' happen more often. The police often times put all drivers in greater danger then the driver being pulled over by the arrogant way they conduct pull overs. For instance, police usually choose to pull people over in a way that blocks a whole lane of traffic instead of directing the people being pulled over to turn off into a parking lot or side street. Cars are forced to slow down and often times have to go through great difficulty to maneuver their way around police car. I mean pulling someone over during rush hour on Wastenaw Avenue around Arborland Mall completely shutting down a lane is something police will do forcing all vehicles in already packed lanes to move around them. The bus probably was put in a position that it had to suddenly maneuver around the police car that probably could have pulled the person over off the road in the first place.

chapmaja

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:51 p.m.

I do find one thing interesting about the follow-up on the accident. One of the news stations, either Channel 7 (ABC) or Channel 2 (FOX), reported the vehicle that was pulled over was being towed and impounded by police. I fully understand the towed part, based on the news coverage of the accident. I don't understand the vehicle being impounded unless there was a reason the driver was pulled over. The simple fact remains that a bus driver should not have run into the back of the police vehicle.

trespass

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 7:12 p.m.

The drug testing policy for DPS does not require drug or alcohol testing for officers involved in a traffic accident. I am not sure if it is the same for bus drivers. I don't know if drugs or alcohol were a factor but it seems that drug and alcohol testing ought to be mandatory for any UM employee involved in a traffic accident involving bodily injuries.

Mark

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 5:13 p.m.

@ Chris, you are correct, I am a bus driver, I'm not trying to justify the way I drive, i want people to stop pointing the finger at the bus driver all the time and consider what part they play in the equation. i have many passenger who love my driving and actually give me gifts because they enjoy riding my bus. By the way, it was not a student driver, leave them alone.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 5 p.m.

jester32b, Your "joke" only works when you use the term "whine." Again, I'm not whining. I'm merely saying that: 1.) You can't assume the driver was pulled over for speeding. 2.) Given the outcome of the traffic stop, prudence dictates that the police should evaluate whether the seriousness of the offense justifies the risk they create on a narrow roadway by creating a traffic blockage. Sorry, but I'm not whining. That accident will cost the University tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs, the lost productivity of at least two employees, damaged property and quite possibly, liability payments. My question (still) is: did the seriousness of the infraction justify three injured drivers and three damaged vehicles? My guess (still) is: probably not.

yournamehere

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 2:14 p.m.

I would wholeheartedly disagree with Chris. As one of the student drivers(for a summer, not anymore), I would say we are actually more cautious than the more experienced drivers. It is scary driving the bus around Ann Arbor, and I find the student drivers(where there is a high turnover) are more cautious because they are not fully comfortable. I find that the more experienced drivers become complacent with the dangers of such a large vehicle. Also, the students receive a good amount of training. I had to go out with an instructor at rush hour multiple times and drive around the busiest blocks of AA over and over to become comfortable(or as comfortable as you can) with the situation.

jester32b

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 1:55 p.m.

YpsiLivin, Would you like some cheese and crackers with your wine? Let's look at the facts. The job of our police officers is to keep our community safe, not to generate revenue. The officer conducting a traffic stop and maybe issuing a citation will hopefully slow drivers down, making it safe to ride my bike on the street and safer for my kids. You talk about "balance of risk and reward." How about the risk the officers take on a daily basis for the "reward" of a safer community for the public? I hope that officer and other driver have a speedy recovery and to all officers please continue to keep our community safe. And maybe if city counsel would put more police out on the roads people would slow down automatically when they see a patrol vehicle. As the police continue to take cuts in officers, crime even as basic as traffic laws are going to be ignored. As for YpsiLivin, wake up and smell the coffee.

Ignatz

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 1:45 p.m.

Not all U-M bus drivers are students. Many students are employed as such because they do cost less (temp pay/benefits vs. that of full time), they can easily fluctuate the staffing levels based upon seasonal needs and The U does try to give students jobs when it can. Empty bus? I'd check any cell phone records.

Jay Thomas

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 1:11 p.m.

Why do they have student drivers? Probably to save money. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Chris

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 12:50 p.m.

@Mark Obviously, you're a bus driver trying to justify the way you drive. We don't know the full story yet, but the police officer seems to have done everything right. I've spent 20+ years riding the U-M buses and, while there are a handful of decent drivers, most of the younger drivers don't seem to have spent even an hour in training. I won't ride the bus unless it's being driven by an experienced, full-time bus driver. I would not be surprised to find out the driver of this accident was also a student driver. That is purely speculation on my part. That has not been mentioned in any of the articles - here or on other news sites. I feel for this bus driver, as well as the police officer. I'm sure they're both thankful that this accident wasn't worse.

pegret

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 12:49 p.m.

I have no idea what the story is here, but as a regular bus rider, i have to say that most of them do a great job, especially considering what they have to deal with. It amazes me what chances other drivers, bicyclists and pedestrians take with buses. I'm sure truck drivers have similar experiences. I'm sure I don't have the skill or patience to do either. Also, the police sometimes have few options as to where they can safely pull someone over, but it still bothers me when often extremely dangerous situations are created by a car being pulled over. (I'm not implying that this was the case here.) Last week a huge traffic jam resulted when a mini-van was pulled over on Huron. The vehicle was parked flush with the curb, causing minimal disruption, but the police car was sideways behind her, blocking 2 lanes of traffic and causing cars to swerve into oncoming traffic in order to get around them. I was also chastised by an officer once for pulling around the corner when I was right there instead of blocking a lane on a busy street. Oh well, I hope all involved are ok.

trs80

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 12:20 p.m.

@ Mark, Why would they write a praise story when they can write about the bike lane or some ugly dog roaming around town? Much more entertaining. haha To stay on topic for the Mods, hope the 5-0 will recover and look forward to an update on the story.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 12:16 p.m.

Since we have no understanding of why the driver was stopped, it's hard to say with definition that the stop was or wasn't worth the risk. Failing to use a turn signal and DUI are both moving violations, but one is clearly more of a risk to the public than the other. Layer on top of that the creation of a blockage in what's supposed to be moving traffic and suddenly, everyone's at risk. Was the risk to the public from the vehicle driver's potential offense so great that it warranted a stop, or was the public more endangered by the blockage the traffic stop caused? This question has yet to be answered, but don't immediately assume that all traffic stops serve the public's interest.

Mark

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : noon

ALSO, does anyone ever write an article praising the good things that bus drivers do?? Such as picking someone up who IS NOT at a bus stop or waiting for someone to run to the bus from a far distance or one of the night-time drivers who watches a person to make sure they made it to their vehicle safely in a dark parking lot, nope we'd rather criticize what they do wrong.

lm2

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:50 a.m.

Ypsi- Thank you for correcting me. Three were indeed injured. We don't know the complete circumstances to the situation especially why the person was pulled over and why the bus struck the police car. You just seem quick to blame the officer for the incident without knowing the details. I am holding off judgement on all parties because the bus driver may have had medical issue or the bus had mechnical problems. Collin- good points.

Mark

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:45 a.m.

Everyone needs to stop making bus drivers out to be such terrible people. I'm not saying this driver didn't make a terrible mistake but has anyone thought about what they have to deal with?? The people that complain about the buses driving too fast are the SAME people that complain about the bus being late or the bus ride was too long. It's a no win situation. Does anyone comment on the ridiculous drivers, bikers and pedestrians in Ann Arbor that cause the drivers to have to do some of the things they do??? If this is the third accident in two years as previously stated, that's pretty good considering the U of M buses run about 22 hours a day and about 360 days a year and constantly deal with motorists cutting them off, pedestrians who walk out in the street without looking and bikers who blow through intersections as if the rules of the road don't apply to them. Bus drivers are not perfect, they are human so stop expecting perfection from them.

steve339

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:39 a.m.

@Ypsilivin, What if it was a motorist stopped in traffic, would it be any different? Whether or not there were any lights, ALL motorists have a responsibility to drive safely.

bunnyabbot

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:37 a.m.

@ypsilivin, it was only NOT worth it b/c the bus slammed into the patrol vehicle which was stopped, unless there was a mechanical failure of the bus or the driver had a medical episode the bus driver is at fault. The officer doing their job is no different than a construction worker doing their job on the side of a road or a tow truck doing their job on the side of the road. Or if it had just been a disabled vehicle with or without a patrol car stopped behind it.

Lou Perry

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:33 a.m.

Stuff happens even if it is part of the University of Michigan cars and buses fleet.

Collin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:32 a.m.

@YpsiLivin If I recognize the photo correctly, the officer stopped the driver on a 35 MPH two lane road. I would think that is about as safe as it gets. He/She could have certainly asked the driver to pull into the parking lot. However, I don't see how not enforcing traffic laws and ignoring offences on roads that are deemed unsafe to pull someone over on could be better than taking as low a risk as this one.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:16 a.m.

I am not "whining" about officers doing their jobs. I am saying that there needs to be a balance between risk and reward. The "reward" of collecting the proceeds of the ticket was clearly not worth the risk it posed in this particular case to the three people injured in this crash, nor was it worth the property damage the accident caused.

naturally

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11:07 a.m.

I've been taking the UM buses for years and some of the student drivers wheel around like they're driving a Chevette. I'm honestly surprised that accidents don't happen more often.

lm2

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 11 a.m.

@YpsiLivin Two people are injured and you are whining about officers doing their job. If people wouldn't break the laws that are in place to protect us, no tickets would be needed. Prayers to all involved.

Woman in Ypsilanti

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10:55 a.m.

I take the bus a lot. I am usually very impressed with the driving skills of the bus drivers. They are way better than the average driver in Ann Arbor. But of course those are AATA bus drivers. I have no idea about UofM bus drivers or of any differences in qualifications between the two groups of bus drivers.

Andrew Gurstelle

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10:42 a.m.

Some of the problems with bus transit exist because we (as a community) simply don't privilege buses the way we do cars. We don't have enough people taking the bus, leading to infrequent service that is pressured to stay on time. Our roads aren't constructed with buses in mind. And of course, we as drivers don't always drive with buses in mind. I frequently see motorists cutting in front of buses, not thinking about how long it would actually take a bus to stop in an emergency. None of this excuses mistakes made by bus drivers, but it does show the circumstances that lead to mistakes.

eyeloveypsi

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10:30 a.m.

Thanks, Pete, for the explanation. I understand.

bunnyabbot

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10:29 a.m.

even without a roof rack the police vehicle would have several flashing lights that are obvious when on

yournamehere

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10:16 a.m.

I drove the bus for a summer at UM. It was a worrisome experience. The roads are not wide enough, during rush hour it can be difficult to stay on time, and people drive recklessly in AA. I quit because something else came my way, but I never looked back after all the stress. I've been noticing(I'm a student on North Campus) that some of the drivers have been reckless lately. Some drive as if its a car not a 10 ton bus. They drive too fast, they stop at the last second, and they care little about the comfort of the passengers they commute.

YpsiLivin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 10 a.m.

@Theresa Taylor, The AATA wasn't involved in the crash. The bus belongs to UM. The police vehicle doesn't appear to have a roof rack. Did the officer have his lights or hazard lights on, indicating that his vehicle was stopped? This is an argument against having police officers write tickets for a bit of quick revenue generation. This particular traffic stop, instead of generating $100 or $200, will now cost the university tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs and property damage. Not a good deal, IMHO. (And think of how many more traffic stops the Dept. of Public Safety will have to make to cover the losses here.)

URmaster

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:58 a.m.

Better get Macco! These buses are too big and go to fast on our city streets. This is the third accidents in the past 2 years.

The Kingpin

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:56 a.m.

These buses are not driven safely. I've come close to being hit before. The university needs to crack down on these drivers, or hire more responsible ones.

a2grateful

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:51 a.m.

75 feet is really not that far considering the momentum of a bus... What was that bus driver doing, anyway?

justwondering

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:49 a.m.

Info only, the air bags won't deploy in a vehicle that is hit in the rear. Present air bags are designed for front impact and side impact only. Just this past week I thought myself thinking about how fast those buses seem to drive; I happened to be up on north campus at the time, too. The same goes for some of the city buses, too.

Theresa Taylor

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:47 a.m.

Yeah - I really hope that everyone is okay. I know that the bus drivers are under a lot of pressure to stay on tight schedule (i.e. KEEP their jobs). I hope this is a clear message to the U-M Department of Public Safety that AATA needs to lighten up a bit. I'm certainly NOT justifying the any reckless driving on anyone's part. Safety first.

linuxtuxguy

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.

"It appeared to have been pushed about 75 feet from where it was initially parked to where it stopped on the embankment next to the road." 75 feet is a LONG way to push one vehicle, let alone two (patrol car and car the official had stopped) I suspect some interesting details will come out about this soon.

amazonwarrior

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:39 a.m.

TYPO....A University of Michigan bus slammed into the back of [a] parked campus patrol vehicle.... I agree with RobertJ, the way those buses are driven around the hospital area, I'm surprised more people aren't injured, and they drive like they own the road and the rest of us are suppose to get out of their way.

RobertJ

Fri, Apr 16, 2010 : 9:28 a.m.

The way those buses drive around north campus, I'm surprised they don't hit more things.