Unauthorized immigrant brothers prepare for future after Skyline High School: 'We're not afraid'
Graduating Skyline High School seniors Jose Contreras, left, and Javier Contreras, right, play soccer in their yard in Scio Township Friday.
Daniel Brenner | AnnArbor.com
Beyond that good news lay few certainties. Their story illustrates what it's like to live in legal limbo amid a broader fight over federal immigration policy.
The brothers have been “out of the shadows” more or less since they began attending Ann Arbor Public Schools 13 years ago in kindergarten.
“We’re not afraid to have people know we’re undocumented,” Javier says.
Jose, 19, and Javier, 18, say they don't want to face a future of minimum-wage jobs like the ones their parents work now.
Their aspirations are similar to those of any ambitious high school graduate: To attend a four-year university, get a degree and someday work at a company like Apple or Facebook.
Though the brothers have been accepted to a number of schools in Michigan — including U-M — and have received scholarship offers from some of them, they'd be facing international tuition rates because they're not U.S. citizens.
The barrier is one that has motivated the brothers to become activists for immigration reform and join the controversial tuition equality movement that's been pressuring the U-M Board of Regents to change its policy.
Jose and Javier know their future is in their hands now — and they won't stop working for it.
Their motivation
The brothers’ story is punctuated with the staples of high school: prom, part-time jobs, driver licenses, cellphones and soccer games.
Underneath the surface, there’s something else, too.
“Your friends are like, ‘why are you trying so hard?’” Javier says, explaining he’s been called a nerd for studying so much.
(L-R) Graduating Skyline seniors Jose Contreras, 19, and Javier Contreras, 18, pose for a portrait Friday at their home in Scio Township.
Daniel Brenner | AnnArbor.com
Jose and Javier know the reason.
They see it every day when they go home: their parents.
Antonio and Irene have been working jobs at the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. for more than a decade — and it’s unlikely that they’ll have the possibility of anything higher-paying under the current system.
“We cannot complain — we have been able to pay for everything — and we’re not getting any help out of the government,” Antonio said. “We’ll work our way through. We can deal with it. Why try to take advantage? That’s not our policy.”
Though Antonio and Irene have been able to keep the family in the same Scio Township mobile home for 11 years, the brothers know the kinds of jobs they could be stuck in.
“My parents do well in what they do, but we don’t always want to be working in jobs like I do now,” Javier says, explaining he works as a cashier at Plum Market. “I don’t want to work washing dishes; I’ve worked those jobs.”
Jose, who has been working since eighth grade, quit playing soccer midway through high school so he could clock more hours. He now works with a catering company.
The brothers both work to help pay the family’s bills and to pay for the extra things they want to have — like cellphones.
Though their parents have instilled in them strong hard work ethic, it’s not all about earning money.
It’s about education, too.
“I told them — it’s kind of my philosophy — it doesn’t matter what the future is for them or for us over here in the United States,” Antonio says. “Education and knowledge is something nobody can take away from you. It doesn’t matter where you go.”
’No money’
The landscape of rural central Mexico, where the family lived, isn’t quite a desert, Antonio says, but it can quickly become one if there is no rain.
With no utility bills to pay and no running water, Antonio says he could scrape together just enough money to pay his rent every two months and feed himself as a single man.
Once he married Irene and the couple had Jose and Javier, Antonio says life became hard.
“It’s like every other story," Antonio says, rubbing his first two fingers against his thumb. “No money.”
In 1995, when Jose was 18 months old and Javier was 6 months old, Antonio walked across the border to “the other side” for the first time.
“We never say ‘The United States of America,’ we always say ‘norte’ or ‘the other side,’” Antonio says.
He found jobs everywhere, mostly in restaurants.
“You come over here today, tomorrow you’ll be working,” Antonio says.
After traveling back to see his family several times, all four eventually crossed the border for the final time in 2001.
“They came with me and we never went back,” Antonio says, shaking his head. “We never went back.”
At 5 and 4 years old, Jose and Javier say they don’t remember much about the rural village where they were born or the dark night of the border crossing.
“I remember some things being near the border; climbing on people’s backs,” Javier says, trailing off.
Jose continued Javier’s thought: “The adults telling us to be quiet … the parents telling us ‘Don’t make any noise!’”
“There was a bunch of hiding and being in a car,” Javier says. The family climbed into a car near the border and drove until they were in Michigan.
It’s not nearly as easy now for families to go north from Mexico into the U.S., the Contreras’ say.
“The politicians may say the borders aren’t secure, but they are,” Antonio says.
Growing up out of the shadows
Thirteen years ago, Antonio settled the family in Ann Arbor. Friends had told him there were jobs available every day of the year in Michigan — a cut above seasonal jobs in the farm fields of California.
“They just said Michigan, Michigan, Michigan,” Antonio says.
The instability and uncertainty of the family’s early years has changed dramatically. They’ve lived in the same modest mobile home for 11 years now, and Antonio and Irene have raised another son: Juan, now 11, who is a U.S. citizen.
Enrolled in the Ann Arbor Public Schools system since kindergarten, the brothers say that even though they’ve been open about their legal status from an early age, they’ve never felt like outsiders or been treated differently. They both have been active on school soccer teams — Javier played varsity his senior year.
But to the federal government, they’re unauthorized immigrants, which meant Jose and Javier would have spent their teenage years without drivers licenses.
After being tangled in a lawsuit with the Michigan Secretary of State, the brothers won out and now have both temporary Social Security numbers, drivers licenses and work permits.
During their sophomore year in high school, an immigrant rights activist group found both Jose and Javier and began working with them.
Social Work Activists for Immigrant Rights was the brothers’ first introduction to activism. They were matched with mentors who started helping them look towards colleges and scholarships.
Soon the brothers went looking for more; Community activism and organizing drew their attention, and they traveled to Washington D.C. twice for immigration reform rallies. Now, they speak to politicians to bend their ear and share their story.
Javier has also been active in the Tuition Equality movement, speaking before the U-M Board of Regents meetings to push them to change their policies for students in the country without legal permission.
“The last word we got from the President, Mary Sue Coleman, she said ‘Don’t go get arrested, guys. We’re trying to support you; just give us time.’”
Dreams in limbo
As they applied to colleges, the brothers increasingly felt like a huge blank in the system.
Because they’re not citizens, they can’t fill out a FAFSA form for student loans or take out a loan from a private bank.
The citizenship process isn’t an option, Javier says. Now that they’re both 18 or older, Jose and Javier would have to leave the country for 10 years, and then return and apply.
“It’s such a broken system — it’s more worth it to wait and see than to try to get in to the so-called line, which is not really there,” Javier says.
Antonio says some people view unauthorized immigrants as being at a huge disadvantage from other people, but that’s not how he sees it. He tells his sons: “Listen, this is up to you.”
Until they heard word from WCC this spring that they’d have a full ride scholarship for two years, Javier says both he and Jose were not optimistic about graduating from high school.
“Sometimes some huge event will happen — like back when the DREAM act didn’t pass — and I was just like, what am I doing still?” Javier says. “But it’ll happen for a second, and then it’ll pass, and it’s just like no, you’ve got to keep trying.”
Though Antonio says he tries to tell his sons that it doesn’t matter what college they go to, Javier knows his dream: U-M.
“There’s times when you do get down, but you can’t sit there dwelling on what’s going come after this,” Javier says. “You can’t think too far in the future. Baby steps.”
Amy Biolchini covers Washtenaw County, health and environmental issues for AnnArbor.com. Reach her at (734) 623-2552, amybiolchini@annarbor.com or on Twitter.
Comments
EyeHeartA2
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:01 p.m.
Last week, I was traveling at an unauthorized speed and got a ticket. I'm just sayin'.
teeters
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:39 p.m.
The bigger question about illegal immigrants, going to college and getting scholarships, is what are they going to do after they get a degree? Any law abiding company, that would hire college educated employees, cannot hire illegal immigrants. There is no way UM would hire an illegal immigrant, so why is there a different standard for students? Directly from the moth of President Barack Obama: "It means cracking down more forcefully on businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers…most businesses want to do the right thing… So we need to implement a national system that allows businesses to quickly and accurately verify someone's employment status. And if they still knowingly hire undocumented workers, then we need to ramp up the penalties."
Greg
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:26 p.m.
While they may be great kids, they are illegals and do not deserve to take away funds from a citizen. Their parents chose to break the law and there are, or at least should be consequences for those who knowingly break our laws. Mary Sue Coleman and those who want to reward those who break the law are not setting an example of good citizenship by any measure.
easy123
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:24 p.m.
PC - Annarbor.com - illegal, illegal. Pretty soon - undocumented will be as dirty as illegal. For the folks who are defending this action- there are millions of deserving folks who are just as hard working. Why do not you make the same effort to defend them , and encourage them to come and live here? Watch your public resources go down the drain? Ever wondered why El Paso and Juarez are night and day? Same people and culture. Answer this simple question!!!!!!
Ken
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:23 p.m.
A wonderful story to tug at the heartstrings of Ann Arbor's libs. Next stop U-M, with the help of university president Mary Sue Coleman.
A2comments
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:21 p.m.
Amy: Did they receive scholarships from WCC or the WCC Foundation? If the later, and it's 100% private funds, and they met the qualifications as an "eligible non-citizen" (from the Foundation's website), and WCC isn't giving them a dime of tuition or fee reduction, then your reporting here is way off. I have no objection to them attending any college in the US if they do so as citizens of Mexico, and no US taxpayer funds are given to them. If that's the case, then why make it seem as if it's not...? Pageviews and advertising?
JGA2trueblue
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:05 p.m.
"We never say 'The United States of America,' we always say 'norte' or 'the other side,'" Antonio says. So they cannot say "The United States of America" BUT they can take and take and take from The United States of America. To me that says it all. A BROKEN system is broken because "illegals" BROKE the LAW!!! If this family is so upstanding and hardworking and these boys are so intelligent - why do they not follow the LAW? It's pretty simple and they have the arrogant attitude of "I don't care". Yes, it is VERY arrogant. When liberals and the entitlement population do not like a law, they break it. That is why this is such an out-of-control DESTRUCTIVE problem. These people do not deserve scholarships and need to go back in line.... and take MSC with you. I doubt MSC and her sanctimonious progressive socialist elitists go to the back of any line. They just take, whatever is not theirs and give it away. That's the mentality. FYI - Illegal is illegal. Period.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:21 p.m.
Well, the system may also be broken because we annexed half of Mexico by force and took almost all of the rich land resource areas. It could also be broken because we deported several hundred thousand US Hispanic Americans from those same areas in the 1920's, without any recourse and their families remember. It could also be because we are a first world nation living next to a third world nation and are dumb enough to expect them to die quietly in poverty while standing next to abundance. It could be too that our immigration policies are terrible and don't reflect the reality that we are very dependent on Mexican immigrant labor to keep our agriculture afloat and our social security system solvent. We do have some responsibility here.
arborarmy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:53 p.m.
1) It's good to see all of Ann Arbor's nativist xenophobes out in force this morning. A typical day on the Snooze's discussion board. 2) WCC does not award scholarships of any kind. The WCC Foundation, an organization wholly supported by private donations and wholly separate from WCC, provides scholarships to WCC students. But it is rather fun watching the xenophobes rant and rave and, in so doing, reveal their ignorance.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:15 p.m.
OK, then the antidote to your argument is that people can come and go from the US as they like? No rules, no law, no regulation?
arborarmy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:50 p.m.
Great logic, US. Those who insisted upon enforcement of Jim Crow laws thought similarly. A2: WCC cannot provide financial aid w/o a FAFSA. Apparently the WCC Foundation will not, as well. Given that these two have not filled out a FAFSA, it seems clear that a means private organization has provided the scholarship. So the point remains: no taxpayer money is involved.
A2comments
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:17 p.m.
Then the reporting is bad, and the ignorance you cite would be with AnnArbor.com that either reported this inaccurately by mistake, or intentionally to generate lots of eyeballs and pageviews... The reporting implies that WCC gave them scholarships. If the WCC Foundation gave them to them, and it's 100% supported by private donations, and there isn't a dollar of taxpayer money being used, even to reduce the tuition, then I have no problem with them getting the scholarships. The WCC Foundation website says a FAFSA must be filled out and they must be a US citizen or "an eligible non-citizen".
easy123
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:17 p.m.
Why do i not squat at the house you live in, and call it mine? I am being sacarstic. however if you do not have some sense of structure - you will have a billion folks living here and you will surly not have a home!
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:59 p.m.
It's interesting that these days the desire to have our laws respected is "xenophobic." How did we get that way? When was it decided that disregarding the law is an enlightened frame of mind, but following the laws is somehow a hateful thing?
AnnArborMom1
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:44 p.m.
Thank you Jose and Javier for putting a face to the issue of immigration reform. We can't afford to lose these kids from our community or country! Thank you for hanging on and fighting for a cause that will benefit us all. Documented or Undocumented.
Gary Gordon
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:33 p.m.
First of all, these are Illegal Immigrants, period. The should be required to go to the back of the line to become Legal citizens. Moreover, for staying here for 13 years and not following the law they should have to pay the consequences. People wonder why our society is so screwed up today, here we have a perfect example. AnnArbor.com promotes illegal activity, as does our President and his ilk, then in the next breath they wonder why some insane crime is committed. Crazy times folks, crazy times!
you can't handle the truth
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:51 p.m.
Your comment makes so much sense, it is sure to be deleted by AA.com
jns131
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:30 p.m.
Waiting on nobama to bail them out? Don't think so. Not with it the reforms stalled in congress. Then with a new presidency? They will be deported. Glad to see they got a free education on my tax roll. Now, get a visa and become an American the legal way.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:12 p.m.
He's not my favorite guy, but calling the President nobama makes conservatives everywhere sound small minded. It was obnoxious when it was done to Bush, is equally pathetic when done to Snyder, same goes for Obama. Wish people would be more respectful and on point in their disagreements.
Gary Gordon
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:36 p.m.
The free stuff is running out and now the piper has to be paid.
L. C. Burgundy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.
Is this article seriously advertising the fact that Plum Market apparently hired someone who can't work in the U.S. legally? Does Plum Market wish to comment on this story?
notnecessary
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:04 p.m.
The article mentions something about a lawsuit and them having real SS cards which I imagine allow them to work legally in the US but further clarification on this issue or a link somewhere by AA.com would be nice.
Amy Biolchini
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.
The federal government has cleared undocumented immigrants like Javier to study and work in the U.S. He and Jose have temporary social security numbers, work permits and drivers' licenses. http://www.freep.com/article/20121120/NEWS05/311200089/Immigrants-cleared-to-work-in-Michigan-but-not-to-drive http://www.freep.com/article/20130201/NEWS06/130201083/Michigan-secretary-of-state-does-U-turn-will-grant-driver-s-licenses-to-qualifying-immigrants
you can't handle the truth
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:48 p.m.
Maybe the INS should check into what is going on in that place.
anotherannarborite
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:42 p.m.
If you read the article thoroughly.
Britney
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:26 p.m.
It makes me sick that people can read this story about these extremely bright and amazing young men and be so negative!! So much hatred! Don't kid yourself. Your arguments are not based on anything but hate. If you did the research you would see that allowing for a path to citizenship for these kids would only benefit the US, not hurt it. As for calling them criminals... SERIOUSLY? Should we as a country seriously hold children responsible for acts that they had no say in? What happened in your lives that made you this bitter towards others?
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:49 p.m.
Only in the liberal mind can adherence to our laws be described as, "hatred."
Fred Pettit
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:46 p.m.
Since when is asking people to follow the law hatred? Just because we don't agree, you can't call it hatred. That's just a way that some dance around the issue and attempt to make the legitimate arguments of others seem irrelevant
Gary Gordon
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:35 p.m.
My grandfather came to this country legally after waiting years. He followed the letter of the law. These illegals of today make my stomach turn and I'm sure my grandfather is spinning in his grave over this insanity.
you can't handle the truth
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:23 p.m.
Start up a charity for all the illegal aliens to go to school instead of whining that law abiding citizens should pay for them.
anotherannarborite
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
This article is going in my "pity party" file, to remind me that many many people do more with less and I need to buck up! Congratulations Javier and Jose! WCC is fortunate to have you and so will whatever University you transfer to. For all of the ignorant commenters, all I can say is clearly you are not as well informed, ambitious, and educated as these young men. Educating yourself or at least reading the article thoroughly would help you not look like fools.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:09 p.m.
You trivialize the argument when you call rule of law ignorance. I don't think there is a great deal of personal animus for these two boys, but a great deal of concern about our laws, how they applied and the fact that justice seems to be no longer blind, but in fact very particular and choosy. I would suggest to you that you have missed the larger picture that is the contractual society we live in and rely on.
UloveM
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:07 p.m.
It is most unfair to these legal immigrants kids who brought here by their parents. Their parents work and pay all type of tax like we do as US citizens, but their kids have to pay international tuition while attending UM or other colleges.
cibachrome
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:06 p.m.
Its great that these Soon-to-be-Democrats have been given a good start in life in a country that is free of the strife they have escaped. Free because of the sacrifices of others who are now shamed and ignored. I just wish we could compromise on this issue by trading out some undesireable citizens for these desireable ones. Sort of a Zero Population Growth policy. But, our progressive Open Borders policy means the dissolving of the country that we now know. I've noticed very little "melting pot" activity over the many years this situation has been going on. "Welcome to the New World, Captain Rameous..."
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:53 p.m.
The immigration laws of this country seriously need changing. They are and always have been racist and discriminatory against people other than white Europeans. This family could not have come here legally. They would have been rejected at the Consulate because they were poor. As Americans we claim to be so proud of the Statue of Liberty, while we ignore the words written at her base: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" We pride ourselves on being a "nation of immigrants" but want no one else to follow in our steps.
JimmyD
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:14 p.m.
I agree that the immigration laws need to be changed. Just like tax laws. Or maybe property laws if we're making it up as we go along. So I'll stop by your place and "undocument" the tires from your car since I want them?
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:58 p.m.
The key word being "door," as opposed to the weak spot in the back yard fence.
melissa
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:58 p.m.
Finally, someone who understands our history!
bruceae
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:49 p.m.
Remember this the next time WCC comes begging for a milage renewal. Apparently they have plenty of money to give away so they don't need my tax money. I have to spend my money putting my LEGAL daughter through college and we pay full price.
melissa
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.
Commenters on this article need some clarification. Scholarships "from WCC" can come from many many different sources, there are many Rotary scholarships, and other companies that award scholarships. Stop complaining. Too bad that poeple do not realize how hard it must be in Mexico for families to want a better future for their family. How did your family end up here? If you are not American Indian that you too are an immigrant. Just because the laws were different in 1900 when your family got here--wow. these comments are un american. Freedom is what America has always been about and I am happy these kids get to further their education, whoever the scholarship may have been funded by.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:25 p.m.
The USA has not always been about freedom. Slavery was written into the Constitution. Immigration laws and whether or not they are enforced are often about cheap labor for the railroads, large corporations, many congress people who hire unauthorized household help.
Dog Guy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.
This is the country of opportunity. Jose and Javier could become two of its presidents. Do not worry about what is or is not legal, but be guided by precedent.
Judy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:33 p.m.
Oh, Gramma that is the next law that some will want to change because the person has worked hard and got good grades.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.
Only persons born as US citizens can become president. John McClain was eligible to become president because, although born in Panama, he was born a US citizen, the status of his military parents.
whojix
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
No doubt they'd be asked tough questions in any interview why they feel they only have to follow laws they personally agree with.
ViSHa
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:04 p.m.
Why bother asking questions, the interviewee can just google and this story will pop up.
teeters
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
Unauthorized = illegal. Stop pussyfooting around this term. Illegal = scholarship? Would WCC think of giving scholarships to other individuals who broke the law other than immigration laws.
GeeWhiz
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:43 p.m.
Could somebody clarify why my comment stating that I had never heard the term "unauthorized immigrant" was deleted? Is there any US Government official document that uses the term "unauthorized immigrant"? The US has an Immigration and Nationality Act that clearly defines what constitutes legal immigration. Individuals physically present in the US in violation of the act are deemed to be illegal immigrants by the US Government!
jcj
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:29 p.m.
Seems we have some budding politicians at MLive. Unable to give a clear reason or answer!
E Claire
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:11 p.m.
So true Steven. I remember back when the press was on the side of the citizens. Now they're just a propaganda arm of the govt. Too bad most people can't see how they're being subtly manipulated.
Steven Taylor
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:54 p.m.
Heaven forbid the press offends criminals... *headdesk* At one point, the press was unbiased and not worried about peoples 'delicate sensibility and pursued the news with vigor'... So much for objective media...
M-Wolverine
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:33 p.m.
So can you explain why "illegal" can only reference an action but not a person, but "unauthorized" can refer to a person and not just an action?
Fred Pettit
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.
Kyle, so you're saying all reporters must follow the AP rules of reporting? "Also to note, the AP recently announced that the phrase "illegal immigrant" is no longer proper style for journalists" I wasn't aware that there are guidelines for how to report or write a story. How can you call yourself a reporter when you are restrained by nonsense? I'm sick and tired of the politically correct police telling us what is proper and what is not. Illegal is illegal, is illegal changing the term does nothing to change that other than stating an opinion and that's not reporting is it?
GeeWhiz
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:14 p.m.
Thanks Kyle for the feedback - I hadn't seen your comment before I posted mine. The AP guideline apparently states that it is OK to use illegal in the context of the action, i.e. "illegal immigration", but not in the context of the person violating the law. IMO, the term "unauthorized immigrant" does not convey information that the individual being referred to violated a law. It is important that readers be made aware that these individuals violated the law of the land they reside in and expect benefits from.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:56 p.m.
"Also to note, the AP recently announced that the phrase "illegal immigrant" is no longer proper style for journalists." So, if the AP jumped off a cliff..... ?
Kyle Mattson
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:48 p.m.
Hi GW, please see my comment above. This is a term that MLive adopted for all stories regarding immigration earlier this year. Also to note, the AP recently announced that the phrase "illegal immigrant" is no longer proper style for journalists. You can read more about that and discuss it here: http://bit.ly/19XDxIM
Elijah Shalis
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:43 p.m.
Good for them. If their grades are good enough then they deserve it.
jcj
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:27 p.m.
I will out my granddaughter's grades up against theirs ANY day. Doesn't she deserve a free ride?
Kyle Mattson
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:37 p.m.
As a reminder, the use of the unauthorized immigrants term in this article is consistent with the change made by AnnArbor.com/MLive.com earlier this year. Please feel free to email us any feedback you may have regarding its use for share@annarbor.com for our consideration so we can keep the discussion here in the comments focused on reader input regarding this specific story. Thanks.
Brad
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:30 p.m.
eu·phe·mism /?yo?of??miz?m/ Noun A mild or indirect word or expression for one too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.
Fred Pettit
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:27 p.m.
"Accurate" or politically correct bs? It is not accurate so the later has to be true.
jcj
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:26 p.m.
Jen Would you use the term... He was unauthorized to buy the gun. Or would you say... He bought the gun illegally? Here is a headline from May 24th. Ypsilanti DDA may install security cameras to deter illegal dumping. Why not say 'unauthorized dumping? Here is one from May 3rd Nearly 80 tires illegally dumped on Midas auto repair property in Ypsilanti. Seems you are very selective as to what is illegal and what is unauthorized!
Brad
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:21 p.m.
Neutral? Sure. Accurate? Please. It's a textbook euphemism.
E Claire
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:46 p.m.
Are you kidding me! "most accurate"? Sorry but you're just pushing your typical progressive agenda. They are still here illegally no matter what you want to call them.
Jen Eyer
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:15 p.m.
MLive Media Group uses the term unauthorized immigrant because we believe it is the most accurate and neutral of the available options. - Jen Eyer, statewide community engagement director MLive Media Group
Brad
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:34 p.m.
It's their corporate euphemism and they're sticking to it. That's a comment on obfuscatory terminology, not immigration.
M-Wolverine
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.
Should be "to the link"
M-Wolverine
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.
Do you have a link the the reasoning for the change being made by AnnArbor.com/MLive. Because until you publish it you're going to get these questions. You've presented no reasoning for it, and dodging the question by removing comments concerning it and shuffling it off to a nebulous email (that will get no consideration) is intellectually dishonest.
Fred Pettit
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
Kyle, the use of the term "unauthorized immigrant" is part of the story, it's in the title and people do find it objectionable. They are here in this country illegally and thus are illegal immigrants. It's that simple.
BHarding
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:32 p.m.
From an article written in 2011: Last year 1.38 million Mexican citizens were waiting in line for a United States work visa or an immigration visa through a family member. But there were only 26,000 visas made available for Mexico last year. The visa cap applies evenly to each country, but Mexico has by far the longest waiting list, according to U.S. State Department figures. Even the applications now being processed for extended family, such as the Mexico-born adult children or the siblings of now-U.S. citizens date back to late 1992 and early 1993. In other words, the waiting period to legally imigrate to the U.S. through a family member who has become a citizen is now 18 years.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:15 p.m.
The quota or cap is not equal across all countries. The cost of a visa application is regardless of the economy of the country. Many Europeans who couldn't get into the US have immigrated to Canada, become citizens, then applied for visas to the US. I know several of them personally. They are allowed to live here indeifinitely while remaining citizens of Canada.
Hunterjim
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:22 p.m.
so....
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
It costs about $1000/person to apply to come here legally with a work visa. Every person who applies for the visa pays this money whether they ever set foot on US soil or not. I see this process as a huge money maker.
JRW
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:25 p.m.
Doesn't "undocumented" mean illegal? The PC media, not just AA dot com, has apparently changed its descriptions from illegal to undocumented or unauthorized so it sounds better. But illegal is illegal. These are hard working kids, but taxpayers dollars should not be used to pay for their scholarships at WCC or any other taxpayer supported institution. The fact is that their parents came to the US illegally and knew the consequences for them and their children. I don't know anything about their lawsuit with the MI Sec of State that allowed them to get temporary SS cards and driver's licenses and work permits, but tax funded scholarships should be limited to US citizens. I don't like the law that they would have to return to Mexico for 10 years before applying for citizenship because they are 18, but that's the law. There are plenty of other laws I don't like that affect me personally, but I have to live with them. There are some good people here who came here illegally, and these are examples, but coming to the US illegally has consequences. They should not be receiving a US taxpayer funded scholarship since they are not US citizens.
DonBee
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:16 p.m.
I am very happy these two boys are doing well, and did well in school. I am very unhappy the immigration system is broken. It needs fixed. I am glad someone offered them money to go to school. I am unhappy that they can't get loans because of their immigration status (lack of status). That being said, if the government was diligent about enforcing the existing laws, they would get changed faster, since everyone agrees the current laws are bad. I hope the "gang of 8" get the new laws passed in Congress.
JRW
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:27 p.m.
Bank loans and college scholarships using taxpayers' money need to be restricted to US citizens.
JoeVet
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:12 p.m.
Only in America ! What else can I say...
you can't handle the truth
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:11 p.m.
For how much Plum Market charges for their products, I wouldn't think they would need to hire illegal aliens.
Brad
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:16 p.m.
Most synonym sources list "authorize" and "clear" as synonyms for each other.
Brad
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:11 p.m.
So why are you calling them "unauthorized" if the feds have authorized them? That is what you're saying.
Amy Biolchini
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:53 p.m.
The federal government has cleared both Javier and Jose Contreras to work in Michigan -- they have temporary social security numbers and work permits. http://www.freep.com/article/20121120/NEWS05/311200089/Immigrants-cleared-to-work-in-Michigan-but-not-to-drive
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:03 p.m.
Please think about your comment. It's because the large corporations want to maximize their profits on the backs of the poor whether they are here legally or not.
Dr. Fate
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:09 p.m.
I don't understand why these intelligent kids don't just take the citizenship test and become citizens? Maybe a week of studying the test question and answers that are given to you. Why not go the extra inch? Am I missing something?
Steven Taylor
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:50 p.m.
Amy Biolchini, why wouldn't the legal process be recommended. Because we're 'bleedin' hearts and want to see them succeed? Examples like these kids show the Immigration system needs to be fixed, because it's being downright ignored. My family immigrated from Hungary legally prior to world war I. spent time, money and effort to do so, by the law.. Why should illegals be given special treatment. Any other country, including Mexico itself does not treat illegal immigrants as well as we do.. I'm tired of the free passes.
Amy Biolchini
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:50 p.m.
At this point, the citizenship process would require the brothers to leave the country for 10 years and then re-enter and apply for citizenship.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:54 p.m.
You're missing a whole lot. There's a lot more to do than take the citizenship test.
vg550
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:54 p.m.
Just a quick note ......... what is this family using for Social Security numbers? I would really like to know. Doesn't a person need his/her social security number for a job, pell grants, etc. Please don't tell me our government is just giving them out too!
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:08 p.m.
The necessary documents are probably made by the same people who make false documents so students can drink. The cards sometimes have the same number as someone who is alive and working. Maybe someone else is putting money into your SS account. Craig, your boss may have been fooled, but many of the "bosses" know full well what is going on.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:03 p.m.
You can apply to the IRS for a taxpayer number as an illegal worker. Millions do and pay and file tax returns in some sad belief that they will be treated differently in front of the law if they are up for deportation. There are good studies that show our social security and tax system would be hurt tremendously if they all leave and stop paying taxes (they cannot collect any benefits).
Amy Biolchini
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:57 p.m.
Both of the brothers have been cleared by the federal government to work and study in the U.S. http://www.freep.com/article/20121120/NEWS05/311200089/Immigrants-cleared-to-work-in-Michigan-but-not-to-drive
Craig Lounsbury
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:21 p.m.
I have no idea how universal that it is, but it is my personal experience. And I will add my boss paid those guys pretty well.
Craig Lounsbury
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:19 p.m.
I can't speak to this situation but several years ago I was the 'right hand man" to a local contractor. We had 4 illegal/undocumented workers. When they were hired we thought they were legal. They had SS cards and green cards. After about 2 years the boss got a letter from Social Security saying they had a problem with 4 numbers. We still didn't catch on and the boss called the 4 in and said he would go down to SS with them and iron out the problems. It was then that the guy who spoke the best English (impeccable actually) said there was nothing to fix, the cards were "fake". He offered that they could all come back in 2 weeks with new cards and it would take Social Security 2 years to catch up again. My boss reluctantly let them go. Talking after with our book keeper we surmised that somebody somewhere creates fake cards using real numbers from dead people. For whatever reason it seems to take Social Security a couple years at time to figure it out.
newsboy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:49 p.m.
Good luck guys! If you wish to become citizens of the US, we reserve the right to tap your phone and steal your personal computer files.
BHarding
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:40 p.m.
Are you TRYING to get these kids in trouble? Why the write-up?
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4:03 p.m.
ICE doesn't work in any systematic manner to find illegals. Most usually they raid a factory or other company known to hire UDA's. The workers are taken to jail and the owners get a light pat on the wrist. Then they hire new UDA's. Again, follow the money.
A2comments
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:09 p.m.
That's just silly. They've already had legal actions against the state to get their driver licenses, all the authorities know they are here illegally. Why ICE hasn't already acted is unclear - they know where illegal aliens live and haven't yet begun deportation proceedings?
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3 p.m.
"They were more than willing to talk to me and the parents were sitting there for the interview the whole time". I am shocked that you would really state that. Stunned. I expect somewhere this article will be held up in a journalism class for discussion of ethics. You have all but given a road map to ICE for detaining and deporting this entire family. Normally there is some shrouding of location or school in such circumstances. This is an utter failure of journalism. Shame on you.
Amy Biolchini
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.
They were more than willing to talk to me and the parents were sitting there for the interview the whole time.
Judy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.
Because they were proud to do it!
Craig Lounsbury
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:37 p.m.
"Antonio and Irene have been working jobs at the minimum wage or lower in the U.S. for more than a decade — and it's unlikely that they'll have the possibility of anything higher-paying under the current system. " I contend there are lots of illegal/undocumented people working in construction for a fair amount more than minimum wage.
Craig Lounsbury
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 4 p.m.
lawn work is not construction. I worked in construction in Ann Arbor for 30 years. I know lots of small construction business owners. Especially in the areas of framing, roofing, concrete and masonry, drywall and I am very comfortable saying that in the Ann Arbor area a majority of those folks are paid pretty well by industry standards.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:39 p.m.
Many undocumented people working construction are paid less than others by the company owners who actually benefit most from using undocumented labor. Some of the lawn company owners take out all the taxes then pocket the money themselves rather than submit it to the government. Follow the money to see why the flow of undocumented workers is allowed to continue.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:33 p.m.
Can anyone tell me if any of these programs require proof of valid citizenship: - Affordable Housing - SPARK business incubator services - Unemployment - Pell Grant - Energy (heating) assistance - Continuing Education assistance Someone also had a valid point; the claim of "we're not getting any help out of the government" is COMPLETELY false, since that WCC scholarship is paid w/ WCC funds, a large potion of which are via taxes. They also attended schools paid for by taxes. And YES, the parents MIGHT be paying taxes, but I see NOTHING in this story confirming that.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:36 p.m.
Yes, you have to show proof of citizenship to live in affordable housing. You can't draw unemployment unless you have paid unemployment taxes. Many undocumented folks who paid these taxes don't apply for UCB because they are afraid. Pell Grants and Federal loans require proof of citizenship. I have no first hand knowledge of the others. Maybe someone else does.
leezee
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:31 p.m.
This is a slap in the face to those immigrants who entered our country throughout history legally by following the process that is in place. My grandparents came here in the early 1900's and had to show that they had no criminal background and no health issues. They had to have a sponsor (usually a relative) that they would be living with until they got on their feet. My grandfather dug ditches during the day and went to school to learn English at night. He became an engineer and owned rental properties in Detroit. He and my grandmother raised 9 children - 4 of whom were boys who all served in WWII. I can just imagine that these folks here illegally think of people like my grandparents as schmucks. I mean, why bother following the rules when you're going to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Breaking the law is illegal - there's no getting around that and it should not be allowed let alone lauded.
Judy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:27 p.m.
To me this is totally outrageous and WCC is also to blame! As far as this story goes it is a great time to let Lansing know how I fell about illegal alien (undocumented non-citizen, document-challenged visitor just forward it to Lansing.
belboz
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.
I wonder if I can get a ticket for speeding if I just tell the officer it isn't illegal, just not authorized. An economy has a fixed number of jobs and educational opportunities. There are 2 equally nice US citizens who are not getting the opportunity because these 2 boys are. Bottom line.
Chase Ingersoll
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:20 p.m.
Aside from the "rule of law issue", they appear to be like many of the "illegals from Central America" I have known as the wonderful neighbors and my best soccer team-mates.
Dorothy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.
Human beings are not "illegal." God bless these honest, hard-working young men. I hope that our leaders have the good sense and the decency to find a path to citizenship for this family and others like them. They are no different than other hard-working immigrant families (like mine) who came here at the beginning of the last century, when the doors of this country were still open to people who wanted a better life for their children.
Hunterjim
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:19 p.m.
Humans can be illegal, fugitive, convicted, innocent, any number of terms. It discribes a status.
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:28 p.m.
Actually, Dorothy, the immigration laws of the last century only provided for white European immigrants. Asians were completely excluded from 1882-1943. The laws of 1790 allowed only free white persons to be naturalized. That left out all white persons who came here in a form of slavery called "indentured servitude." Africans brought here against their will were not allowed the rights of citizenship for nearly 500 years. Spanish speaking people born in the Southwest were "deported" to Mexico after the US "won" their land from Mexico in a war. The indigenous peoples of this country still are in a limbo that denies them rights of citizenship. I certainly agree with the belief that the poor of the world should be able to seek shelter here.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:37 p.m.
Uh, there IS a path to citizenship. It's been there like forever. I think it's great these kids did great in school, but this is not some "against all odds" beautiful story of working hard and deserving what one gets; how about applying some of this industrious nature to becoming a legal citizen? No?
jcj
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:31 p.m.
Human beings are not "illegal." No but MANY things humans do ARE illegal! "when the doors of this country were still open to people who wanted a better life for their children." Those doors ARE still open to LEGAL immigrants!
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:24 p.m.
Nice try. The doors are still open. The problem is millions of people didn't come through the door, then decided to sneak through the window instead. Therefore, they are VERY different from immigrant families (like mine) who came here legally. That's a BIG difference.
leezee
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
The only difference is that your relatives actually followed the protocal for entering legally. Don't you think this is insulting to those who follow the rules?
Chase Ingersoll
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:16 p.m.
So if breaking immigration laws is celebrated by this paper and community, where is the list explaining to me and the rest of the public which federal, state and local laws it is cool to break and for which I will be celebrated in the paper, and which ones for which breaking, I will suffer punishment. Where's the list ? Who writes the list ? What do I need to do to be on the good side of the list writers ? This is not "government". This is a state of anarchy.
Robert Hughes
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:18 p.m.
Most traffic laws.
Hot Dice
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:35 p.m.
You're not just right , you're DAMN right -- I proudly celebrate the discussion and eventual repeal of unjust laws. I think the "list" (ha) is something we determine through rational conversation.
Jack Gladney
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:01 p.m.
Nice photo of them smiling ear-to-ear. I'd do the same if my family beat the system as well. And free tax money to boot! What a heart warming story.
seldon
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:57 a.m.
They're working their butts off. Good for them. If they pay their taxes, that makes them better "citizens" than the 1% who find loopholes and avoid paying their share. These guys are the kind of people America needs.
glenvl
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:49 p.m.
1% ?? actually its more like 48% who pay no federal income tax.
Skyjockey43
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
Oh yeah, because the top 1% of wage earners in this country aren't paying their fair share? Except for the face that's complete nonsense when the IRS (you know, that completely ethical group that loves tea party organizations so much) shows that the evil "one percenters pay as much in federal income tax than the bottom 95%. how dare they! http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/12/top-1-of-american-taxpayers-pay-almost-as-much-in-taxes-as-bottom-95-and-half-of-that-group-paid-nothing-in-2010/#mbl
cinnabar7071
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
I found this online, it's from the Congressional Budget Office. seldon could you define what paying their fair share is? I know they pay more then I ever will. "As for taxes, CBO calculates that the top 1 percent paid 27.6 percent of all federal taxes, including: ?38.8 percent of federal individual income taxes ?4.0 percent of federal social insurance taxes (Social Security and Medicare) ?58.6 percent of corporate income taxes (indirectly, through stock ownership) ?5.5 percent of federal excise taxes (on such things as gasoline, tobacco, alcoholic beverages and telephones.)"
Lightnin' Bug
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:42 a.m.
Good for them. They seem like hard working kids. Now lets send back two deadbeat milk the system US Citizens to Mexico in exchange.
Dexterdriver
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:37 a.m.
Nice kids? Seem like it. Ambitious? Apparently.......Law breakers who have been coddled by our bizarre open borders policy?....You bet! Should they be on a greyhound bus to the border to pursue their educational goals? Absolutely!
Chase Ingersoll
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
They, like their parents are making the best of a bad situation that was/is created by the corruption of the US and Mexican governments.
Homeland Conspiracy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:33 a.m.
So I can come to the US illegally & have things given to me...Where as I had to work very hard to get what I have & I was BORN here. not right!
Robert Hughes
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.
Working hard for what HC? Money? or human rights?
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:14 p.m.
Where were your grandparents born? Did they come here legally? These young men earned those scholarships.
sh1
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:22 a.m.
It's a shame that the first two comments do not support these boys earning scholarships to go to WCC, (especially since they've worked harder than their citizen friends who call them nerds). The article explains they are not allowed to apply for loans. Would people prefer they give up their ambitions and go on the public dole?
Judy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:45 p.m.
The difference Gramma, is "we the USA" have laws in place so people can come here legally. They may or may not need to be changed but, the laws you are talking about are "new" laws people wanted and were willing to get them changed, until the immigration laws are changed, these 2 and their parents are illegal immigrates.
Robert Hughes
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:10 p.m.
Gramma! You hit the nail on the head like no other argument here has for me!
Gramma
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:12 p.m.
Some laws have to be broken or they will never be fixed. The Civil Rights workers broke laws by black folks and white folks sitting down together and by sitting in restaurants. Most of our immigrant grandparents broke laws by coming here. The people who established the unions in the 30's were breaking the law.
vivian
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.
sh1, I can't speak for the other people who've made comments, but I suspect that they don't see the available alternatives the same way you do. I'm guessing that they think there's the alternative of attending (and paying for) college as international students, and there's the alternative of attending (and presumably paying for or applying for aid for) college in the country of which they are citizens. Going on the public dole here in the US probably doesn't strike them as an alternative, for the simple reason that the two aren't citizens and should thus be ineligible for public assistance. Yes, it's clear that these young men are hard workers, and probably they could, with education, become highly productive members of the workforce. Unfortunately for them, their parents' choice not to apply for citizenship has narrowed their range of opportunities and options. It's not too late for the parents or the young men themselves to try to rectify this mistake. Why don't they do that instead of taking the attitude that the law should change? The law MAY change, but they'll still have broken it if they wait around instead of taking action to change their status. I don't doubt that achieving US citizenship legally can be difficult, but they say (and seem to have shown) that they can handle difficulty.
vg550
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:24 p.m.
Don't you get it ............ there SHOULDN'T BE a "public dole" available to them in the first place. What part of ILLEGAL don't YOU understand?
jcj
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:16 a.m.
The problem is not with these kids, it is with our lack of a system of dealing with ILLEGAL immigrants. I wish them the best and wish WCC would give my grandson (an American born citizen ) a full ride!
djacks24
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:27 p.m.
Too bad they are citizens. Better chance of a scholarship if they weren't regardless of their grades.
vg550
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:22 p.m.
I agree, I've got 2 granddaughters that have very good grades, who could use a full ride too.
leezee
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:20 p.m.
Well, your grandson has two less chances of getting a scholarship now.
Hunterjim
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:13 a.m.
13 years and no mention of trying to obtain legal status. Too bad, they could have had a future here, but they should go home and get in line. They are illegal aliens period.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:53 p.m.
They could join the military and take that path to citizenship.
Britney
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:21 p.m.
Maybe you should do some research before you speak. Or just learn how to read.... These two extremely bright young individuals have been involved in substantial advocacy work TRYING to get legal status. The way immigration currently is there is nothingggg anyone can do to go from illegal status to a legal one. That is why a path is needed!
LA
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 10:57 a.m.
Good luck to both of you! The U.S. needs more like you. I hope everything works out. Your parents did a good job raising you!
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:56 p.m.
Yes, this story is a perfect example of excellent raising of children; flout the law, and nothing bad will happen. No need to follow rules.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:08 p.m.
The U.S. needs more illegal immigrants?
nekm1
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:01 p.m.
I hope they are smart enough to take your job! Then we will see how much we need more undocumented (illegal) aliens...
GoNavy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 10:54 a.m.
Good for these kids. I hope they grow up to be productive citizens in our society.
Ivor Ivorsen
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:46 p.m.
Homeland Conspiracy: You are incorrect. Nearly 6% of active duty personnel in the United States military are not citizens of the United States. I consider them very productive.
Homeland Conspiracy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:30 a.m.
You have to be a citizen first to become a "productive citizens in our society."
A2comments
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 10:38 a.m.
These young men are clearly high achievers. However, WCC, which gets a large portion of its budget from our tax dollars, should not be providing scholarships to them. Their parents came here illegally with clear knowledge that they did it illegally, and the brothers knew they were illegal aliens. Taxpayers should not be funding their education. If a private citizen wants to fund their education, then they should be allowed to attend any school as citizens of Mexico.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:28 p.m.
@djacks24: they are likely paying property tax on the land their mobile home sits on. All renters pay property tax via their landlords. It is wrong to suggest renters do not pay property tax.
djacks24
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:25 p.m.
"they may, or may not, be paying payroll taxes. They almost certainly are paying sales tax and other consumption taxes...." Sounds like a sweet deal to me. Just sales/consumption tax and no payroll or property taxes.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:06 p.m.
WCC does not give scholarships. The WCC Foundation does, and it receives not one penny of taxpayer money. Not a penny. GN&GL
seekingsun
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.
they may, or may not, be paying payroll taxes. They almost certainly are paying sales tax and other consumption taxes....
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
"But the parents ARE paying taxes even if they aren't documented." Actually, we don't know that. There is a tendency for "undocumented" workers to work for cash. And when a worker accepts cash for a job one thing is typically certain - they are not going to pay taxes on the income. So the notion that "undocumented" workers are paying their share of taxes is hogwash.
Usual Suspect
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:08 p.m.
skigrl50, paying taxes does not make a person legal. Illegal is illegal (except in the minds of liberals).
skigrl50
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 11:57 a.m.
But the parents ARE paying taxes even if they aren't documented. Why shouldn't they get scholarships?
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 10:36 a.m.
Can someone explain how an illegal alien (undocumented non-citizen, document-challenged visitor, whatever the phrase is today) can get a scholarship? Doesn't that mean there's something INCREDIBLY wrong with the system in place to aid in education? Did I never have to provide any kind of proof of legal identity when I went to college? Seems like I recall having to show my SS card and license multiple times while enrolling.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 3:31 p.m.
Ivor, xenophobia is COMPLETELY the wrong word here. It has NOTHING to do with my, or any other comment indicating a negative response to this story. I also see no knee-jerking. I think your response is the typical knee-jerk one I see where, regardless of the situation, if you have anything to say that implies anything but sheer rapturous joy about immigration, welfare, etc. you are an evil white rich person.
Laura Jones
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:49 p.m.
I think there are several issues, not just knees jerking. There are many citizens who struggle to pay for school and it smarts a bit to see someone not follow the rules and get an education paid for. I admit it takes me aback a bit too - having struggled for college funds. We ask people in our society to respect and live by the rule of law, then we make many - not just this - exceptions that make that original demand somewhat suspect. The problem here is that in any society, too much of that leads ultimately to violence. People get very angry when they see a lot of injustices unaddressed or feel, rightly or wrongly, they are being given rules which do not apply to all. (or taxes, or benefits, etc.) These boys are obviously kids we want to have, and I would imagine their parents as well, given their work ethic. Their potential positive contribution is quite high. Perhaps taking the military path to citizenship is something they should consider. They could get that U of M education and their citizenship as well, and its all a legal path. Service to our nation is a great start. Otherwise, they will get a great education and have no chance for other than an off the books low wage job or leaving when they graduate. Lastly, great job AA.COM providing ICE with a way to find and deport them. Journalistic integrity??
Ivor Ivorsen
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 2:24 p.m.
What I see are two amazing young men who have excelled in our system. They were brought here as very young children and were essentially raised as "Americans." No, I don't think they should be punished in any way--I think they deserve to remain in this country. I am disheartened, but really not too surprised, by the raw xenophobia and knee-jerk Know-Nothingism on display in most of the comments below.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:51 p.m.
So, Ivor, is there anything an illegal immigrant CAN'T get? I'm assuming your position is that the whole concept of illegal alien means nothing, since if by dint of hard work and diligence all things are available? Is there anything you think they shouldn't have access to? Like at all?
Ivor Ivorsen
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 12:53 p.m.
"Can someone explain how an illegal alien... can get a scholarship?" Hard work? Diligence? Ability? Talent?
GoNavy
Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 10:53 a.m.
In the same way we allow other-than-academically-qualified individuals earn scholarships: We adjust the rules and create carve-outs. PS Neither a Social Security card (number) nor a "license" are valid proofs of citizenship in the United States.