Jim Walker

Tue, Sep 29, 2009 : 1:21 p.m.

For swcornell Perhaps I was not clear. You are correct, it is not the receipt of one or two tickets that causes a sudden change from respect to disrespect. It is the obvious system over many years of posting almost all main road speed limits in the city far below the normal and safe traffic flow speeds. Huron Parkway is another obvious example. The posted 35 mph near Boulder arbitrarily defines over 80% of the drivers as violators. In the section near the two hills where there are no intersections, there are over 95% of the drivers arbitrarily defined as violators. It does not take an engineer to clearly see the posted limit bears almost no relationship to the normal and safe travel speeds. I moved to Ann Arbor in 1962 to go to the U of M. The predatory system of grossly under-posted speed limits set contrary to standard and accepted engineering principles that makes violators out of an enormous percentage of our safe, sane, sober, competent drivers has been effect since at least 1962. It takes many years to create the disrespect for improper posted speed limits and the officers that enforce them, and it will take some time after correcting our speed limits to the correct levels to maximize safety and conform to state law to restore the respect. It is time to get started. Regards, James C. Walker

bunnyabbot

Mon, Sep 28, 2009 : 11:36 p.m.

I've always wondered, is Of Robinson married?

swcornell

Sun, Sep 27, 2009 : 5:30 p.m.

I find it a little hard to believe that anyone who already had respect for the Police for doing their jobs would suddenly begin to disrespect them for getting a citation for breaking the law. I think there was already disdain there for any law and order?

Jim Walker

Sat, Sep 26, 2009 : 8:36 p.m.

Perhaps the saddest part of the cities like Ann Arbor that use under-posted speed limits to generate a lot of revenue with predatory ticketing is the damage it does to the respect for police officers and traffic laws in general. It isn't rocket science for average people to realize that most posted limits on main roads in Ann Arbor are set WAY below the normal traffic flow speeds. On the 45 mph section of Washtenaw the former 35 mph limit was about the 4th percentile speed with 96% of the traffic above the limit under good conditions. This means that most tickets, even with a 7 to 10 mph grace allowance, are given to safe, sane, sober, competent drivers just going along at the normal traffic flow speeds in the safest possible manner. Police then ticket some percentage of these very safe drivers, essentially at random. It turns police officers sworn to serve and protect into hated or feared road tax collectors, a totally improper use of fine officers that could be being used to serve and protect -- including doing traffic duty to find the dangerous drivers who are DUI, careless, reckless, aggressive, etc. I have offered many times to work with the city for free to review our posted speed limits and bring them into conformance with state law, which would also likely lower our accident rate by a small proportion. About two years ago, I could not get my two Council Reps to even meet with me on the subject - and no other part of the city administration or engineering groups will meet to discuss this. Hopefully, more and more people will challenge their speeding tickets in court and that may help to bring down the predatory system used by our city with under-posted speed limits. I personally know of several cases where the people challenged tickets on the same basis I challenged mine, and got the tickets dismissed. I wish every ticket recipient would challenge every speeding ticket on main roads where Ann Arbor controls the posted limits. This might eventually get the city to change the policy and re-set posted speed limits ONLY for reasons of safety and smooth traffic flow. Regards, James C. Walker

bunnyabbot

Fri, Sep 25, 2009 : 10:46 p.m.

J Walker, yes, when they touch on city limits they can be patroled by the city. Just as AAFD would answer calls for the same area. The one ticket I have gotten was a few years ago, I was coming over the Huron River going the pre bridge speed and was pulled over by the sqaud car sitting at the top of the exit/entrance rap of Barton (the curve of death) for going over the posted over the bridge speed, the speed drops there 15 miles in a short distance. I was decelerating (but not braking), apparently not fast enough, I was in the left lane allowing for the mergers to enter from north bound mainstreet. I have navigated this stretch of road everyday for several years (and grew up on the westside) I'm usually in a pack of cars but this day I was on a different schedule, not traveling in a pack and got caught going 5 over. which was $125 ish bucks 4 or 5 years ago for the ticket. I will also point out that I have seen two accidents on that same bridge, both a night in crappy conditions with at least one of the cars in each case not driving slower or more cautiously for the snow and sleet conditions. keep in mind folks. Salt prices are up (a lot was stolen last year!) and last year there were complaints about the roads, be prepared it will be like that again this winter!

Jim Walker

Fri, Sep 25, 2009 : 1:38 p.m.

The print version of the article makes it clear the tickets at point #1 are on M-14 near Barton, not on Barton near M-14. For swcornell, bunnyabbot is correct. Every state has a "Basic Speed Law". You can see Michigan's exact wording in Greggy_D's post in 257.627(1). To maximize safety, posted speed limits are set for good conditions when the traffic is free flowing and people use their own chosen speeds they find safe and comfortable, NOT for bad conditions. It is completely improper engineering to post speed limits for bad conditions, and it is always the drivers' responsibility to slow down if conditions are poor. IF the posted limits on main roads in Ann Arbor were all set to maximize safety (not true at this time), residents would not complain about "speeders" because most drivers (85%) would be legal. For arearesident, I believe when a road like M-14 or US-23 touches the city limits, city police can patrol there. They should probably not do so, but I believe they legally can. What people should challenge are speeding tickets written on main roads where limits are set by the city of Ann Arbor like numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, and 10. I believe that NONE of those posted limits are legal under state law. Regards, James C. Walker

arearesident

Fri, Sep 25, 2009 : 8:04 a.m.

It seems that everyone misses one huge point about the citations issued by AAPD on M-14: they have no jurisdiction there. This same problem occurs when AAPD is operating on US-23 near Geddes Rd. The city has no jurisdiction anywhere on US-23. When you add to that to the fact they cite people for a violation of a city ordinance, not for violating a state law, it is all showing they have no regard for what is right. My guess is that the city feels justified in doing this act due to not participating in the county-wide pool of money collected from citations. This pool is contributed into by the participating jurisdictions, and then the funds are disbursed from that pool. For those that get cited by AAPD in those areas, challenge the citation in the court with jurisdiction over that area, not the city's court.

bunnyabbot

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 2:37 p.m.

regardless of speed limits people are suppose to drive SLOWER if the conditions of the road or traffic would demand a reasonable person to do so. So even on Newport on those curves in the winter people should be going slower than the posted speed. it never ceases to amaze me the number of people driving SUVs with four wheel drive going 70 miles an hour in a snow storm with low visability, really, common sense tells me that if you don't have traction your four wheel drive doesn't work as well if at all, throw in a patch of ice and I don't care if you go into the ditch, just don't hit me on the way off the road. Posted speeds are what you are allowed to drive under favorable conditions.

swcornell

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 11:09 a.m.

Point #3 is covered because people have died on those curves. In the winter the curves become trecherous. Then you slide into oncoming traffic. Remeber there is is only one speed not a seperate summer/winter speed. Why is it so hard for everyone to just drive the speed limit. There's really no such thing as a speed trap. Only people who think they're above the law and don't care who's life or property they put at risk!

Jim Walker

Thu, Sep 24, 2009 : 10:44 a.m.

For The Watchman In most cases,the lucrative ticket "duck ponds" are the places where the posted speed limits are the farthest below the safety-optimum 85th percentile speed, so there are the largest percentage of arbitrarily-defined-as-illegal drivers available for revenue production. For the most ridiculous case, consider Newport Road north of M-14 going towards Maple Road and Huron River Drive. When Newport Road was under county control some 10+ years ago, it was posted at 40 which was the surveyed 85th percentile. Under city control, it is posted at 25 which is the 0th percentile speed of free flowing traffic. That is right, under good conditions ZERO vehicles are at 25 or lower, including city busses, city police cars, and all the other drivers. The 85th percentile speed remains at 40, just as it was when posted at 40 by the county. KaChing $$!!, KaChing $$!! Regards, James C. Walker

The Picker

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 7:40 p.m.

Perhaps if the police were not so busy milking the populace for easy money they would have time to fight real crime. You don't make that kind of dough chasing punk burglars around on the Northwest side!

The Watchman

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 7:21 p.m.

"A lot of these are probably areas where weve received a lot of complaints, and so our traffic enforcement unit gets deployed to get it under control." Quote from Deputy Chief Bazick. The Chief cannot tell us with certainty that complaints have been made for the traffic enforcement areas. Are we to believe citizens are calling in complaints for M-14, Huron Parkway at Boulder, Depot at Fifth Avenue and Huron Parkway at Hubbard? Or, are the officers writing tickets at those locations because those spots allow for an easy mark? Are the officers pressured to write these tickets? Do they profit from going to court on overtime? The article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. The only answer is that the officers write tickets at these locations? Why? I see no benefit regarding safety for the citizens of Ann Arbor.

Jim Walker

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 1:30 p.m.

For amlive Thanks for the links and the note that some limits have changed. Two sections on Washtenaw and one on N. Main now have correct 85th percentile limits. This was NOT done by the city, it was done by MDOT and the State Police on numbered Michigan highways where they have the authority to set speed limits for maximum safety and the smoothest traffic flow. The City Council opposed those improvements to safer and smoother traffic flow. For David Fitzpatrick Correct, the way to make traffic flow smoother and safer is to set the posted limits to reflect what the super-majority (85%) of drivers find to be safe and comfortable. This IS totally counterintuitive, and it takes some study to understand it. For the science, go to www.michigan.gov/speedlimits and download the booklet (better than the smaller pamphlet) published by the Michigan State Police called Establishing Realistic Speed Limits. Also note that the actual travel speeds do NOT change enough to matter when proper limits are posted, because the posted limit has almost no effect on actual travel speeds. It is a myth that proper (and often higher) limits will then escalate even further -- it simply does not happen. The city engineers know this, the police know this, the mayor knows this, but the artificially low and very lucrative limits remain on almost every main street where the city posts the limits -- usually in defiance of the relevant state laws. Most posted limits on main roads in Ann Arbor are not legally enforceable under state law. For Paul It is true that compliance with posted limits would work, but we know for sure that most people will not comply with artificially low limits set below the safest point. The fact is that when the posted limits are set far below the speed ranges that ARE safe and prudent, it is the posted limit that is at fault, not the drivers. It is wrong to criminalize safe driving to produce a lot of speeding ticket revenue, but that is Ann Arbor's policy and has been since at least 1962 when I moved here. Regards, James C. Walker

Greggy_D

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 12:40 p.m.

James Walker is dead-on with his post. Here is the actual law: 257.627 Speed limitations. 1) A person operating a vehicle on a highway shall operate that vehicle at a careful and prudent speed not greater than nor less than is reasonable and proper, having due regard to the traffic, surface, and width of the highway and of any other condition then existing. A person shall not operate a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than that which will permit a stop within the assured, clear distance ahead. (2) Except in those instances where a lower speed is specified in this chapter or the speed is unsafe pursuant to subsection (1), it is prima facie lawful for the operator of a vehicle to operate that vehicle at a speed not exceeding the following, except when this speed would be unsafe: (a) 25 miles per hour on all highways in a business district as that term is defined in section 5. (b) 25 miles per hour in public parks unless a different speed is fixed and duly posted. (c) 25 miles per hour on all highways or parts of highways within the boundaries of land platted under the land division act, 1967 PA 288, MCL 560.101 to 560.293, or the condominium act, 1978 PA 59, MCL 559.101 to 559.276, unless a different speed is fixed and posted. (d) 25 miles per hour on a highway segment with 60 or more vehicular access points within 1/2 mile. (e) 35 miles per hour on a highway segment with not less than 45 vehicular access points but no more than 59 vehicular access points within 1/2 mile. (f) 45 miles per hour on a highway segment with not less than 30 vehicular access points but no more than 44 vehicular access points within 1/2 mile. The City of Ann Arbor is the entity NOT OBEYING THE LAW by having bogus speed limits posted.

Paul

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 8:16 a.m.

The comments are interesting. The easiest way to avoid getting a ticket is to OBEY THE LAW. The roads have speed limits and there are expectations in society that people obey the law. Don't whine about tickets, whine about people who refuse to behave as adults and drive at a safe and prudent speed. Overpriced hybrid vehicles can go quickly, but you could help save the environment by driving slowly!! It's not that difficult.

C6

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 7:09 a.m.

Theo212, Ah, but the two traffic circles on Maple that are either side of M-14 make a pretty good late night "dogbone" race track. Times for a single lap have been falling all summer and there are impressive records currently in both the "American" and "Europeon" classes, with the "Asian" class working hard to catch up. James Claude Thomas

C6

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 6:28 a.m.

Theo212, Ah, but the two traffic circles on Maple that are either side of M-14 make a pretty good late night "dogbone" race track. Times for a single lap have been falling all summer and there are impressive records currently in both the "American" and "Europeon" classes, with the "Asian" class working hard to catch up. James Claude Thomas

Kurt

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 12:09 a.m.

David, You're missing the point of those studies (which were huge and definitive). People drive the speed that the road is designed for. If you want to change the speed, change the road with traffic-slowing features. Artificially imposing speed limits does not change the speed that people use to travel the road. That's a proven fact.

YpsiLivin

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 8:15 p.m.

As a police officer once said to me...if the voters would make it possible for the PD to have an adequate budget, it wouldn't be necessary to give out so many tickets. Did I miss something? When was the last police/fire millage turned down? If it's true that the City of Ann Arbor has to pay for the police department using ticket revenue because the voters won't fund additional police services, by the same logic, why doesn't the AA Fire Department send a bill to every burned out homeowner and car crash victim they encounter? After all, the Fire Department has to pay for itself "somehow." Why doesn't the city install coin-operated turnstiles at the entrances to City parks? After all, they have to pay for the parks "somehow." And why not charge motorists on the roadway an access fee after a snowfall to help defray the cost of snow plowing and salting? After all, the City has to pay for the snow plows "somehow." Ridiculous! The City has a millage to pay for police and fire services. If it's insufficient, they always have the option of asking for more. There is a permanent mechanism in place to fund the City's police and fire services. What the mayor is really saying is that the City administration can't live within its budget, and since the police department is capable of generating extra revenue, the City will co-opt the police department to generate revenue for the City, thereby covering the rampant and persistent administrative incompetence that defines the city government in Ann Arbor. Word to the city administration: everybody's got to live within their means. When you build ticket revenue into the budget as a line item and count on it to float your budget year after year, you're admitting that you can't competently manage the City within the revenue limits that were authorized by the residents.

YpsiLivin

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 8:14 p.m.

As a police officer once said to me...if the voters would make it possible for the PD to have an adequate budget, it wouldn't be necessary to give out so many tickets. Did I miss something? When was the last police/fire millage turned down? If it's true that the City of Ann Arbor has to pay for the police department using ticket revenue because the voters won't fund additional police services, by the same logic, why doesn't the AA Fire Department send a bill to every burned out homeowner and car crash victim they encounter? After all, the Fire Department has to pay for itself "somehow." Why doesn't the city install coin-operated turnstiles at the entrances to City parks? After all, they have to pay for the parks "somehow." And why not charge motorists on the roadway an access fee after a snowfall to help defray the cost of snow plowing and salting? After all, the City has to pay for the snow plows "somehow." Ridiculous! The City has a millage to pay for police and fire services. If it's insufficient, they always have the option of asking for more. There is a permanent mechanism in place to fund the City's police and fire services. What the mayor is really saying is that the City administration can't live within its budget, and since the police department is capable of generating extra revenue, the City will co-opt the police department to generate revenue for the City, thereby covering the rampant and persistent administrative incompetence that defines the city government in Ann Arbor. Word to the city administration: everybody's got to live within their means. When you build ticket revenue into the budget as a line item and count on it to float your budget year after year, you're admitting that you can't competently manage the City within the revenue limits that were authorized by the residents.

huh7891

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 6:54 p.m.

David F, I will second that, increase that revenue. Guess what if you're too clueless to obey the speed limit, you deserve a ticket.

The Grinch

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 3:54 p.m.

So, if I understand Mr. Walker's posts and the studies he cites, the way to make our roads safer is not to enforce existing speed limits but to raise speed limits to reflect the driving habits of people who break the law? And so, when the latter happens, and people again beging breaking the law in large numbers at even faster speeds, do we raise the speed limits again? The fact of the matter is that the speed limit on most surface streets in A2 should be no higher that 35 to 40mph given the bike traffic, proximity of sidewalks, and traffic entering from driveways and side streets. For these reasons I was appalled when, several years ago, the speed limit on North Main was raised so as to reflect the breakneck speeds practiced there, putting at risk all bicyclists and pedestrians who use the sidewalk that is very close to the street, and making it near-impossible to enter safely into traffic from side streets. And, I say GO FOR IT, AAPD. Ticket all of these people you can. I'm tired of their aggressive driving, something that goes hand-in-hand with their speeding. I'm far more at risk on a daily basis from agressive speeders in this town than I am from some sort more serious crime. This, it seems to me, is an excellent allocation of resources. So, if you don't like tickets, don't speed. It's that simple.

bunnyabbot

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 3:38 p.m.

A cop frequently sits at the top of the Barton exit/enterance (death curve) at M-14, they will get someone speeding coming over the bridge. (as someone who frequents this area I wish people would learn the concept of merge). Although I have also seen a cop car parked in the median kinda near where bird hills park is, so they can catch people before they go over the bridge or going the other way towards the miller maple exit. there is also a spot on packard where a patrol will lie in wait, usually a few streets before the split with eisenhower. packard near stadium, where national city had a bank I often see a cop car there too. vets park parking lot across from Knights thanks for the pic of Of Robinson, he's got a nice butt there in that pic :)

Macabre Sunset

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 3:12 p.m.

I'm amazed I've never been ticketed on Huron Parkway. Traveled that stretch every day for years, and never went below 40. Limited access, easy curves, the only even remotely difficult issue is narrow lanes. Thanks for the heads up on the 55 limit on M-14. Is it just eastbound? I find it necessary to stay slow while going eastbound just because there's a lot of lane-changing and the access points require a stop. It's just plain dangerous there. Westbound, the 55 makes no sense, so I usually take it at 70. I really don't give a damn about speed limits. I know I should, but when you get a higher penalty for speeding than for mugging a stranger and stealing their wallet, you tend to lose respect for the judicial system. Again, probably miraculous that I have received only a couple of tickets in my life, and none in the Ann Arbor area.

amlive

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 1:42 p.m.

Here's the 85% rule articles. http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/04/speed_limits_to_go_up.htmlhttp://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/08/a_better_traffic_flow_ann_arbo.html

amlive

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 1:36 p.m.

I don't know what people are complaining about with police issuing too many tickets or setting speed traps. I thought those numbers were downright low!Granted not all police officers are traffic cops, but if you average citations out over the year among the entire police force, it comes out to less than one ticket every three days per officer. I don't think that should be indicative of of a bunch of cops with too much time on their hands setting speed traps. Even of the citations issued, it looks like there was a better than 1 in 4 chance of getting off with a warning. Quit your whining, and obey the rules... As to the 85% rule, I thought they did just increase a number of speed limits to meet that range based on traffic studies a few years back. I know they upped the North Main speed limit, and there were a few others in the news as well. Maybe someone can dig up that old Ann Arbor News article related to that.

John Hritz

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 12:56 p.m.

Now we just need ticket activity and crash stats together. You'd think that areas that had more accidents would get more patrol coverage. (Unless that's what is meant by complaints?)

Gina Valo

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:51 a.m.

Curious if the guy pulled over in the picture had to give consent for the photo to be used. That's kind of embarrassing...

treetowncartel

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:45 a.m.

Oops, I meant Devonshire, not Division. Sorry to confuse a lot of people, i know those two streets don't intersect.

Jim Walker

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:43 a.m.

For patrick www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html This massive study contracted in 1992 by the FHWA studied about 100 locations where the posted limit was raised by up to 15 mph, or lowered by up to 20 mph, from the existing limit. The MAXIMUM change in 85th percentile speed was three (3) mph and the average change was less than one (1) mph. In some cases, speeds went up slightly when limits were lowered, or went down slightly when limits were raised. Posted limits have almost no effect on the upper part of the speed distribution - but they have a massive effect on compliance and who can be ticketed. Correct 85th percentile limits tend to reduce the variance, smooth the traffic flow, reduce conflicts between vehicles, and thus produce the safest environment. Then the same study looked at accidents and found that the accident rate tended to be the lowest when the posted limit was right at the 85th percentile speed, tended to be a bit higher when the limit was somewhat below the 85th percentile, and tended to be higher yet when the limit was set well below the 85th percentile speed. Patrick is correct that the 85th percentile speed is not the ONLY factor used to set limits, but I have quotes from both the city engineering department and the city attorneys office that they don't use it at all. In my studies, I have yet to find a posted limit set by the city above the 36th percentile speed of free flowing traffic, and limits set around the 10th-20th are the most common. Actual 85th percentile speeds on Huron Parkway between Geddes and Washtenaw vary from about 44 mph to 48 mph - speeds that are very safe and comfortable. The road should be posted at 45, almost everyone would be compliant (or very close), and the speed traps would cease to exist. For zulu I have an email from Mayor Hieftje that says essentially the same thing as you heard from that officer -- that we have to pay for the police and fire departments somehow. Regards, James C. Walker

treetowncartel

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:30 a.m.

When we were kids in high school we would challenge someone to a little drag at Washtenaw and Division heading towards campus. Clearly the person was not that familiar with the road if they took the bait, just as we were about to crest the hill near Ferdon we would hit the brakes hard. 9 times out of 10 that old white car with the blue bubble on top was right there waiting for them.

friend12

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:21 a.m.

It is nice to see that the #1 goal of the AA police is still to write tickets. Got to have the continuing revenue. The map and numbers makes this very clear. No I have not gotten a ticket.

yellowrose782000

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 10:01 a.m.

Did everyone notice that the majority of spots are around the UM.... Largest employer means lots of cars.. lots of cars.... lots of tickets.

theodynus

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:57 a.m.

@jimwalker: Show me a study that conclusively proves that simply setting speed limits at the 85th percentile reduces accidents. I'll wait here while you go read the safety literature. There's more to it than setting limits at the 85th percentile and forgetting about it. Wide vehicle speed distributions are unsafe, that's true. High speeds are also unsafe, though. People have a hard time self-regulating speed on roads without a lot of curb cuts/visual distraction, so 85th percentile speeds can get dangerously high on roads like Huron Pkwy.

mannyredline

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:51 a.m.

Are seat belt violations part of these statistics?

KeepingItReal

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:39 a.m.

I travel the Huron/Boulder strip five days a week and it is rediculous to see a police car tucked away at the curve waiting to give someone a ticket. I could see if this is an area with a high level of accidents but even in the winter, it a relative safe stretch of road to travel. Its an easy to give a motorist a ticket and it generates quite of bit of revenue for the City. As a police officer once said to me...if the voters would make it possible for the PD to have an adequate budget, it wouldn't be necessary to give out so many tickets. So some if their ratioanalization for giving tickets are disengenious at best.

KJMClark

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:38 a.m.

I would think "Obey the Law" would be a better opening for this article. "mw" is absolutely right. The tickets should be listed as M-14 at Barton, or more accurately, either M-14 at Main, or M-14 at Whitmore Lake. The Barton Drive exit has nothing to do with the tickets. The tickets are for speeding on M-14. It just happens that M-14 goes over Barton at that point, so they list the location there. The reason the speed drops there is the traffic entering on Main. Neither the entering traffic from Main nor the traffic on M-14 EB can see the other until the Main traffic is on the acceleration lane. Then the traffic coming on from Main, traveling at 35-45, has to speed up to 55 to merge with the M-14 traffic. Traffic exiting WB M-14 onto Main has a similar problem. The Barton Drive exit has a crash problem, but it has little to do with the speeding tickets. That's because people aren't willing to believe the sign that clearly says "15mph" for the ramp, in two places; they're too drunk to see that the lane curves; they aren't paying attention to the fact that they're in an exit lane; or there was a problem with Main Street traffic and M-14 traffic merging. A semi went through the guardrail several years ago because of the last reason. A motorist cut off the truck driver, and the truck driver avoided the collision by expertly hitting the brakes and driving straight into the guard rail. The truck driver probably saved his own life and the motorist's, by avoiding a dangerous jacknife. But the crash had little to do with the Barton exit, even though it was recorded there.

MJSteklac

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:31 a.m.

I'm glad to see that Barton Drive at M-14 is at the top of the list. I see many drivers who ignore the 55 mph speed limit and come through at 70-80 mph. They fail to see the need to slow down in the area due to the short ramp from Main Street and that drivers entering from Barton Drive are coming onto the expressway from a dead stop. If possible, I try to get into the left lane to give entering vehicles as much room as possible to enter the expressway. I always risk road rage from other drivers when I do this and I wish that more drivers will take note of the hazards that exist as they come through this part of M-14.

Jim Walker

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:30 a.m.

The reason so many tickets are written in these locations is the fact that Ann Arbor does NOT use the scientific traffic safety engineering rules to set the posted speed limits for maximum safety and the lowest possible accident rate. This means most posted limits are set far below the normal and safe operating speeds for those streets. Most posted speed limits in Ann Arbor are set in violation of state law and are not legally valid at those artificially low levels. People can challenge many of our posted limits for their legality in court, and often win. For example, at S. Huron Parkway near Boulder (#3), the posted limit of 35 mph is below the 20th percentile speed of normal traffic. That means the limit arbitrarily defines 80+% of the normal traffic flow as criminals. The rea$on$ thi$ i$ done $hould be obviou$ to mo$t ob$erver$. Correctly set legal speed limits which maximize safety and smooth traffic flow are normally set so that 85% of the free flowing traffic under good conditions are under (or right at) the posted limits. It also happens to be true that the drivers at or near the 85th percentile speed have the lowest possible accident risk, much lower than drivers who are at an artificially low speed limit. This is the 85th percentile speed rule, and Ann Arbor most definitely REFUSES to use it, contrary to state laws. It means that a high percentage of speeding tickets go to the drivers with the lowest possible accident risk - a reality that confounds common sense and fairness. If the posted speed limits on the main roads in Ann Arbor were set legally according to state law, several things would happen. First, the accident rate would likely go down slightly. Second, safe drivers going along with the normal traffic flow would not become ticket revenue victims. Third, our police could concentrate on violations that are actually hazardous - things like drivers who are DUI, reckless, careless, aggressive, distracted, etc. Fourth, respect for traffic officers as those dedicated to "serve and protect" would slowly return, because they would no longer be ticketing the safest drivers on the road using artificially low posted speed limits. Everyone should remember that the posted limits on Washtenaw from Hill to Stadium were reset by the State Police and MDOT in April 2008. The city council opposed the changes proposed by the state with a resolution dated June 4, 2007 - but the changes were ultimately implemented to improve safety. The former 35 and 30 limits defined 90+% of the drivers as criminals and there were three fiercely operated speed trap locations on those sections. Today the 45 and 40 limits are correctly set in conformance with state law near the 85th percentile speeds, and the speed traps are gone. Traffic flows very smoothly now, without the need to constantly look for the radar traps. Also note that the actual travel speeds did NOT go up, they stayed the same. It is a total myth that people will always drive "10 over". A properly posted 85th percentile posted limit gets compliance, an artificially low one does not -- but the actual travel speeds are the same. Go to www.motorists.org to read about how speed limits should be set with science for optimum safety, not artificially low for revenue purposes. Regards, James C. Walker

Dakotawoman1

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:15 a.m.

#6 is the BIGGEST speed trap! I drive it every day..... Speed limit drops from 35 to 25 right at the top of a very steep hill. You HAVE to ride your brakes to stay under 30. Sad thing is, most of those who get ticketed there are UMHS patients who are busy looking at the neat architecture of the Gandy Dancer and the brick road and get popped. I'd say a cop is probably sitting at the bottom of the hill 4 out of 5 days when I go by there at 4:20ish....

Mike Hulsebus

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:12 a.m.

protip: drive the speed limit and you won't get a ticket.

Tony Dearing

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 7:22 a.m.

Yes, the map has been temporarily taken down while we fix an error in it.

11GOBLUE11

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 7:17 a.m.

I don't see a link to a map. Perhaps it was temporarily taken down to address yohan's comment. I'll check back.

mw

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 6:57 a.m.

Barton Drive at M-14 and M-14 at Barton Drive are not the same things. I'm pretty sure the tickets are being written on M-14 in the small 55 MPH zone rather than on Barton Drive at M-14 (it's kind of hard to speed there with a stop sign at the M-14 entrance). And the idea that these are danger zones rather than convenient speed traps is questionable (are these the zones with most accidents where safety has been the biggest problem? Or are they places where it's easy to generate a lot of ticket revenue per hour?) I know that #4 on the list, for example, has been a police fishing zone for at least 25 years -- the patrol car sits tucked away at the bottom of the hill coming down from the Arb, lets gravity do the work of generating the speed (it doesn't take much in a 25MPH zone), and reels 'em in. But it could be worse (we could be one of those places plagued by speed and red-light cameras).

Theo212

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 6:35 a.m.

Whoever is dumb enough (e.g. European transplants) to drive in one of those dumb roundabouts SHOULD GET A TICKET!!!! Roundabouts have the potential to be the downfall of civilized society.

yohan

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 6:07 a.m.

points 4 and 5 are reversed on the map