Teacher suspended for playing song about being gay
Update: Suspended teacher has pay restored; rapper weighs in
A local middle school teacher received a three-day suspension after she played the song "Same Love" - written in support of same-sex marriage — in her classroom, according to a report on MyFoxDetroit.com.
Centennial Middle School in South Lyon.
From South Lyon Community Schools
Susan Johnson, a performing arts teacher at South Lyon's Centennial Middle School, played the song at the request of a student, according to the report. She played it after making sure there was no violence or profanity in the lyrics, and told MyFoxDetroit.com that she thought it would promote understanding of diversity and fight bullying.
The song was written in support of same-sex marriage. In it, Seatte-based underground rapper Ben Maclemore explores hate and stereotypes by showing the struggle of a homosexual man from birth to death.
Johnson was suspended this week by South Lyon school officials after another student in the class complained. The district offered no comment to the reporter.
The district is based in southwest Oakland County and serves students from both Livingston and Washtenaw counties.
Meanwhile, the U.S. Supreme Court likely will take up the issue of same-sex marriage on Friday as it considers whether it will accept a case that challenges California's Proposition 8.
Here's a video of the song. The video was not played in class.
Comments
BhavanaJagat
Sat, Dec 1, 2012 : 4:10 a.m.
SAME LOVE vs SELF-LOVE : I am sorry to hear that a teacher was punished and it would not really solve the problems of human relationships. Schools have a role in educating young children about the value of human relationships based upon mutual trust, respect, and commitment. We may have to train children in the art of friendship based upon shared feelings, thoughts, and ideas rather than that of mutual convenience. All types of human sexual relationships tend to fall apart if there is no spiritual quality in the nature of those relationships. My sexual orientation is not the only factor that would determine my success in the relationship that I may establish with another person. I need to profess self-love to acquire the ability to show my love to another person. I have to uphold my sense of self-respect, self-value, and self-integrity before seeking any kind of human relationship.
Michigan Man
Sat, Dec 1, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
Sounds like a mob of academic Ann Arbor types trying to impose Ann Arbor value upon the fine people of South Lyon. Always liked it when I got out of Ann Arbor over toward South Lyon.
Scott Henley
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 10:41 p.m.
If this teacher were playing a religious song he would have been fired and nobody would have questioned it. This is how twisted this country has become.... I have one suggestion and that is teach your own children at home. The more our government is involved with the schools, the more stupid the system gets. Also, with each generation the parents develop a more twisted view of right and wrong. Gay Marriage is just plain wrong. I emplore all straight politicians to openly declare the fact that they are straight every chance they get. What's fair is fair....
Scott Henley
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 10:35 p.m.
As we fall further and further into the abyss the worse it gets. This stuff has no place in our schools. Gay lifestyles are n othing I want schools teaching my kids. Gay marriage is and will always be wrong.... God will prevail and aall of you supporters wil suffer the same fate as those who live the lifestyle. I am no biggot, simply Christian it is not wrong to believe the Bible and what it says.....
snark12
Sat, Dec 1, 2012 : 4:15 a.m.
The more someone protests that they're not a bigot, the more likely they really are one.
Michigan Man
Sat, Dec 1, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
Well said Scott! I stand proudly with you!
hmsp
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 8:02 p.m.
Wow! napoleon says that someone who is against bullying has a "liberal view." And he(?) uses the example of playing a "Christian song" in contrast. Does he really want to suggest that Christians are pro-bullying? And Dexterdriver calls playing that anti-bullying song an "example of "social engineering," and "ultra-liberal brainwashing." I guess I must be "ultra-liberal," then!
Dexterdriver
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 7:04 p.m.
Here we go with another example of "social engineering" rather than education taking place in the public schools. Keep the ultra-liberal brainwashing out of the places where the "Three R's" used to reign. No wonder you hear a lot of folks recommending sending kids to private schools and academies. Promotion of sexual preferences is by no means a suitable topic to be taught in schools. Apparently insult is added to injury in that the alleged "song" is some sort of hip-hop garbage. The district did the correct thing.
napoleon
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:24 p.m.
She should have been fired! If she played any Christian song she would have been. Teachers need to keep their liberal views to themselves and quit pushing them upon our children!
snark12
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 4:51 p.m.
You think teachers are being fired for playing, say, Christmas carols at school? I don't think that's true but you're welcome to show evidence that it is. If it is happening, I'd say that's just as ridiculous and I'd oppose it.
clownfish
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:50 p.m.
Kids are in school about 65000 minutes a year. they are under direct parental control the other 450,000 minutes a year. But it is the 65k that worries people. Are your "values" so weak that the time difference is insurmountable?
thecompound
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:47 p.m.
Heard the teacher on the radio this morning. Not commenting on what happened in the classroom, but I just find it odd that she is on TV and radio commenting about a school issue. When AAPS had the Dicken field trip, or more recently the Pioneer brawl, there was practically a gag order on everyone in the district banning them from commenting . AAPS also claimed it didn't have written notes concerning the older incident (the classroom "passionate discussion" so no FOIA to be had. I just find it odd what a difference there is between the districts in this regard.
clownfish
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.
She plays a song about bullying and then gets bullied out of a job because someones feelings were hurt. I guess that is Freedom in America under the Taliban.
newsboy
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.
Love is where your heart takes you.
mady
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:55 p.m.
newsboy, absolutely. simple but to the point.
nekm1
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:16 p.m.
Another reason I wouldn't touch public school with a 10 foot pole for my child today.
Buckybeaver
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:11 p.m.
I have no problem with people of the same sex cohabitating and socializing. The the undeniable fact is that this is unnatural from a biological standpoint. These people cannot procreate so these relationships can only be platonic. I for one am sick and tired of certain minorities trying to cram their adgenda down my throat. We live in a country where majority rules. If people don't like the certain aspects of the country they live in, they should seek out a place where the majority of folks feel like they do.
snark12
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:35 p.m.
1) Homosexual behavior exists in animals besides humans. 2) You should look up what "platonic" means. (And Plato himself most likely had gay sex since it was pretty common in ancient Greece.) 3) The majority doesn't "rule" in this country. Huge parts of the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, are specifically intended to protect the minority against the will of the majority. Progress in the US has always worked that way.
dsponini
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:13 p.m.
Sorry again Bucky...I gotta dispute your FAUX news facts. "The the undeniable fact is that this is unnatural from a biological standpoint" All research says otherwise... h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
dsponini
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:11 p.m.
You are about to be on the wrong side of history "A Michigan State University poll has found an increase in support for gay marriage in Michigan, with 56 percent of adults questioned saying they support the same-sex unions" h ttp://www.clickondetroit.com/news/ news/MSU-poll-Gay-marriage-gaining- support-in-Michigan/-/4714498 /17571396/-/ny5ql0/-/index.html
clownfish
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:44 p.m.
So all of those married people without kids should be what, jailed? Marriage Licenses rescinded? Yes, clearly America was founded on the principles of "like it or leave it" If you don't like it here, what is keeping you from moving to Uganda where they share your fears?
Jon Saalberg
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:02 p.m.
Look out, South Lyon - you may soon be featured on The Daily Show, and it won't be for your schools' academic excellence or thought-provoking discussions. Or possibly in The Week, in their "Only in American" section - also a showcase for our country's more embarrassing moments.
A2centsworth
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 4:42 a.m.
Just like at one time, women could not vote, and blacks were not allowed to use the same public restroom as whites, the controversy about same sex marriage will pass, it it will become the norm like the other examples above, and haters will have to find something new to hate.
A2transplant
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:20 a.m.
My 4th grade music teacher played Marlo Thomas' song "Free to Be You & Me," for our class (this was back a few handfuls of years ago). Introducing musical elements & influences from the outside world were commonplace & helped keep us engaged and interested in music. Though I am not a bleeding heart, I recall those experiences very fondly. I now wonder if she later got into trouble for it.
hmsp
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:56 a.m.
@ Sieben 7, and many others who have made similar comments: My apologies for getting distracted by the "Gay," and "Anti-Gay" comments. While I stand by what I wrote above, it is indeed a side issue. The central issue is that Ms. Johnson let her students listen to an anti-bullying tape. A tape that happened to focus on the fact that gay people, especially gay kids, are constantly exposed to bullying. That they are indeed constantly exposed to bullying is a fact. An incontrovertible fact. Does anyone wish to dispute that? Another incontrovertible fact is that bullying is absolutely inexcusable. Does anyone wish to dispute that? I'm all ears.
clownfish
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:53 p.m.
I note the silence... crickets...
Buckybeaver
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.
Your facts are true, but what many fail to realize is that you cannot madate how one person feels about another. Just like countries will never stop warring people will always have their predjudice's
Sieben 7
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 4 a.m.
hmsp, I'm not sure why you are singling me out but perhaps you don't get my point. I am saying that many of these comments ASSUME that the song is about the gay lifestyle, promoting same sex relations and expressing their opinion(s) about the LGBT lifestyle and how this teacher is promoting it. IF they had heard or read the lyrics they would have known that the song is exactly as you describe - a person's experience with the reaction that such a lifestyle evokes.
hmsp
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:41 a.m.
Someone just posted a comment –– I think it has been deleted –– about gay people being "cured." Here is some more factual info on that: ******** Can you stop being gay? "Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and The American Psychological Association opposes all portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual people as mentally ill and in need of treatment due to their sexual orientation."9 As with reparative therapy there has been little to no scientific evaluation of the healing and prayer techniques used to attempt to change people. What evidence is available suggests that the success of these techniques is restricted to three areas: Convincing bisexual people to limit their sexual activities to members of the opposite sex. Convincing homosexual people to become celibate. Convincing gay men and lesbian women to attempt to maintain heterosexual relationships, whilst retaining their homosexual orientation. Tellingly, two founders of a ministry established to 'heal' homosexuals later described their programme as 'ineffective ... not one person was healed'.
Buckybeaver
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.
I totally aggree that this is a biological phenomenom and that's fine, but now we have many homosexuals promoting gay as an acceptable alternative lifestyle regardless if a person is actually gay. My guess is that most homosexuals wish they weren't so that they would better fit into society and they in fact have to play the cards they are dealt. Let a person find their own sexuality with influence from others.
Sieben 7
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:42 a.m.
Wow 250 comments and I would bet at least half of them have no idea what the song was about. This is a good forum to express you ideologies and just let rip with whatever you want but the truth is that this song is NOT about same sex marriage, NOR does it promote a gay lifestyle, and if you think your child happened to listen to it and became gay then you have more serious issues that should probably be addressed professionally. I wonder if Ms Johnson would have been suspended if she had refused the request. For a link to the lyrics I would suggest that you go here, http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/macklemore/samelove.html educate yourselves and then decide if this deserves a three day suspension.
leaguebus
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:26 a.m.
South Lyon needs to ban critical thinking in their classrooms just like the Republicans want to do in Texas. Be the first in the state to do it! The first step is to get rid of any teacher that does anything to foster classroom discussion. Secondly they need to get rid of any teacher that teaches something that a student does not like. Thirdly they need to have everything taught in the schools voted on by parents to make sure no student is offended by anything taught. There will be no majority here, if one student or their parents don't like it, it's off the cirriculum. They can also save money by cutting down the school day as the cirriculum will be streamlined significantly, more time to work for minimum wage somewhere.
Sandra Samons
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:16 a.m.
Gay people have been "getting over it" interminably. Apparently those who don't approve of them think they should be continuing to do so, so as not to upset their comfortable status quo.
Doug
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 12:53 a.m.
I'd like to teach my child my values and not let a liberal teacher teach him hers. My child would be removed from her class.
dsponini
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:15 p.m.
Doug...I suggest home schooling for you then. A public school is just that...public.
Lola
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:17 a.m.
I hate to break it to you but teachers and parents aren't the only people your kid learns from. He might pick up some of those scary liberal notions from friends and eventually co-workers.
Dennis
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 10:52 p.m.
People are always asking saying they want good teachers. Things like this are the reason people don't go into teaching. One loud parent and your livelihood is at stake.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 8 p.m.
Ms. Gardner, As SLCS has posted a message about this on their web site, and seeing as the message indicates a policy related to videos, but not songs, could you confirm for us that it was only a song played, and not the video? While the reporting seems to indicate it was only the audio of the song that was played, and not the video content, the schools' response seems to indicate that it was a video which was played. It would seem that this element is central to the story, and may need additional confirmation.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 11 p.m.
sure tree. And technically speaking, marriage is between a man and a woman.
treetowncartel
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:57 p.m.
Technically speaking, it isn't video, those are VHS and Beta-max, this is a digital file.
PhillyCheeseSteak
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:16 p.m.
Have you watched the video? There are 5 images in a 5+ minute song and none are suggestive or sexually graphic.
Barb
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:14 p.m.
Link to website homepage where the statement resides: http://www.slcs.us/
kms
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 7:04 p.m.
I wonder how AAPS would have handled this situation if it happened at say, Forsythe?
Roadman
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:58 p.m.
The article does not indicate what rule she violated to warrant a suspension. The teacher's union should be all over this case if her union contract was violated.
kms
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 12:07 a.m.
What? The sentence "The video was not played in class" appears directly in this article, above the image of the video.
Roadman
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 11:27 p.m.
The annarbor.com article clearly says the cited video was played.
kms
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:16 p.m.
An article in the Detroit News says that South Lyon is citing their policy regarding the showing of video clips...you must have written prior approval and demonstrate which curriculum goals will be achieved. However, this article implies that a song was played, not a video, so it would be great to get further clarification.
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:55 p.m.
I hope South Lyon is proud. When asked to comment the school said "We don't go on camera in South Lyon"....what's that all about?? Get with it South Lyon...you are making the entire state look like a backwards cesspool of intolerance. This story has made national headlines and by tonight will be international. I hope you are happy school board bringing all this negative attention to Michigan! People already have a negative view of us...way to fan the flames! h ttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/ susan-johnson-michigan-teacher -gay-song-suspended_n_2211725.html h ttp://www.towleroad.com/2012/11/michigan -school-suspends-teacher-for-playing-pro-gay-same-love-video.html h ttp://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php ?t=2967412&utm_source=feedburner&utm_ medium=feed&utm_campaign= Feed%3A+absolutepunknet+(AbsolutePunk.net+-+News) h ttp://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501874 h ttp://www.trendolizer.com/2012/11/ south-lyon-teacher-suspended-for- playing-song-about-being-gay.html
Middle America
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:58 a.m.
Actually, people in South Lyon are scared of the wizardry and magic of cameras and worry about them capturing their images which would stop them from getting into heaven.
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:57 p.m.
"'We don't go on camera in South Lyon'....what's that all about?" That's about the fact that what they can say is limited due to rules, whereas any other person - such as a student or a parent - can say anything they want. You basically end up going on camera just to say, "We can't comment on that right now." It also might be about not reusing local news stations, which is a valid concern.
treetowncartel
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:56 p.m.
Good thing she didn't play "What'd I say" by Ray Charles, she might have lost her job completely.
dk
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:56 p.m.
I'm all for gay marriage and have tried to teach my children the same (10 and 7). However, I much prefer our schools focus on academics not social issues. We are falling behind globally, let's focus on reversing that trend.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:44 p.m.
A study of the performing arts in a performing arts class is, in point of fact, focusing on academics.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:43 p.m.
The countries that we are supposedly falling behind would allow an anti-bullying song to be played.
snark12
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:40 p.m.
When I was in 7th grade in the mid 70s we had a music class where we were asked to bring records of songs we liked to be played and then discussed as a group. (So, yes, Gramps, this kind of thing has been going on in school forever.) Someone brought in Afternoon Delight, which is a song about sneaking off for (presumably straight) sex in the middle of the day. Other kids brought in music by Kiss, Rod Stewart, David Bowie, the Eagles, etc., you know good, upstanding clean-cut groups. As now, our parents complained about the "type of music listened to by kids today." My morals were destroyed and I was never the same again.
Ron Granger
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:51 p.m.
Suspend any teacher who forces students to listen to rap. The same goes for a political agenda, which this seems to be. You're forcing your view on other people's kids, with no opportunity for an opposing viewpoint, or to opt-out.
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:47 p.m.
The anti-gay conservatives take political correctness to a whole new level.
Andrew Shafer
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:45 p.m.
Also to those that do not know how to read, as stated in the article, the video was not shown in class. Maybe you should go back to class.
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.
Kids will eventually learn about everything. Should the schools expose 12 year old children to discussions about pornography? Also, the video was not shown, but it was played - whatever. That does not change anything about whether it is right or wrong to expose children to bigoted slurs, which is the crux of this discussion.
Andrew Shafer
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:43 p.m.
I dont understand. Relating a song about same sex marriage/relationships doesn't mean that the song is about sex. Sure not everyone agrees with the lifestyle, but no one is asking you to. I think that everyone should be exposed to what love really is. Suspension, now that's some garbage. Kids are going to learn it eventually, and its not like she was teaching anyone about sex. Its a song about the struggles of love.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:30 p.m.
The following lines appear in the song: "...Playing god..." "...And god loves all his children..." "...that's caused wars from religion..." "...Whatever god we believe in..." Any song that mentions god, religion and Sundays a dozen times is overtly religious in nature. Based on separation of church and state I would say the teacher should be suspended.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:45 p.m.
bob: beats me. don't know and don't care.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:45 p.m.
I don't live in the public school universe. thank god.
bobslowson
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:18 p.m.
OK...based on separation of church and state...why did Michigan have to pass a law mandating the pledge of allegiance "under god"....what about all of the religious themed Christmas songs/carols?
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:52 p.m.
Public school students DO sing Silent Night and other religious songs around Christmas. What alternate universe do you live in?
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:36 p.m.
They are not talking about religion or religious issues. They are singing about god, religion and Sundays. So then singing "Silent Night" and "Come All Ye Faithful" will be ok with you? it's np with me. I just get a kick out of the convenient hypocrisy.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:34 p.m.
Schools are not prohibited from talking about religion or religious issues. Obviously it is not illegal simply for the word "god" to be used in school, or else the pledge of allegiance would be banned.
AlwaysLate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:26 p.m.
Lots of commentors saying that the teacher should have been "teaching". Well, it is a "Performing Arts" class. And music is a performing art. However, this teacher showed a stunning degree of naivety by playing this type of music. South Lyon and Oakland County are not known for their liberal views. She should have known that...
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:58 p.m.
I would really be interested in hearing the opinions of some of the teachers who post here whether they would have run it by the principal. (no sarcasm, i'm genuinely curious)
Cory
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:22 p.m.
Here's where everyone is wrong: Take the sex out of it. It's just a song. No profanity. No violence. If the only issue at hand is the gay angle, then it shouldn't be an issue. For or against, it's no more wrong than playing "the whistle song" or any song that kids of this age are likey to hear on the radio. Seriously. Who's yelling about them playing Thousand Foot Krutch (Christian band) Soil (Christian band) or any country music (Strong christian undertones). It would seem to be a similar argument against those types of music. But hey while we're at it why don't we just ban all music. Just to be fair.
bobslowson
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:30 p.m.
Exactly....country music gets away with the "god" angle all of the time. Even last night, watching the NBC Rockefeller Plaza tree lighting special...when Trace Adkins was performing, was I the only person to see that the ear piece in his right ear was proudly displaying the good 'ol confederate stars and bars?
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:16 p.m.
Sorry, typing from iPhone. Auto correct can be annoying.
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:12 p.m.
Nattiejames- I think you post is brilliant. I agree 100 percent with your message. But let us be fair. These are delicate issues. Schools cannot approach them lightly. Related materials should be thoughtful and tasteful. Please remember, these are not college kids. These are very young children. You cannot reasonably expect any school to function as though it has no one to which it must answer. Profanity does not go over we'll in communities. They do not operate on an island. I feel far too many people are being a bit pollyanna-USB in regards to the teacher's suspension.
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:23 p.m.
These are not high schoolers. This is an important fact to understand. These are middle schoolers. Age appropriate is tantamount (though I don't necessarily condone this language for high schoolers either)
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:50 p.m.
High schoolers are "very young children"? Oh please, they can drive a car, work at a job, and reproduce. And some of them are gay or have gay parents or friends.
walker101
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:08 p.m.
In order for any public school teacher to have been suspended for 3 days had to fall under circumstances that would have warranted such. 1. Teacher would have been informed verbally about a previous incident as such. 2. Teacher would of been counselled that if continuation of similar incident occurs she may been reprimanded if failure to comply. 3. Teacher would be warned in a documentation that if he or she continues to be insubordinate with superior he or she maybe subject to suspension if she or he continues to not follow guidelines as instructed. 4. 3 day suspension for not complying and being insubordinate. If none of these apply the teacher will get back her 3 days off with pay and any further action will comply with UNION agreement.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:39 p.m.
Or, the principal and assistant superintendent done goofed!
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.
So either she was wrongfully suspended or this has not been the first incident or some kind?
carrier
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:56 p.m.
Either the teacher didn't know what the song was about when she played it at the boy's request or she did know. If she didn't know, hopefully she will listen first next time. If she did know, was she intentionally furthering an agenda that maybe she shouldn't have been? She is an employee of the school district and supposedly knows the rules.
snark12
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:34 p.m.
All good questions. Which can be answered by reading the article.
nattiejames
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:54 p.m.
Schools for minors should absolutely engage in discussions about controversial social issues. By so doing, schools allow for an exchange of ideas that enables young people to either affirm or reconsider their nascent and developing points of view. Inviting students into a healthy consideration of a broader spectrum of ideas only subverts a small group of radical parents who would prefer that their sons and daughters see the world as only they would have them see it. Public education should have the public interest in mind. And civil liberty and tolerance are in the public interest. Those who want to legislate what students are exposed to should "opt out of the public option" and seek out a parochial school for their children or home school them. In that way, narrow-mindedness will likely not be subverted by fairness, tolerance, and acceptance.
A2centsworth
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:11 a.m.
It is not just my opinion. Look at the Amish, they too limit their childrens education, and those that leave the community and enter our society have much difficulty competing in the job market. But it is your decision to mainstream your children or keep their cloistered.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:58 p.m.
a2cents. "...Those students learning merely the "three R's" will be left behind in a world that is moving forward" ..." That's your opinion. The government sanctioned valued system use to segregate education.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:26 p.m.
a2citizen: Welcome to the 21st century. Those students learning merely the "three R's" will be left behind in a world that is moving forward. I agree, not all movement is accepted by all, but the world turns regardless. nattiejames's post was eloquent, and makes sense. Every person you meet in life, regardless of whether they are a teacher, has an opinion. By teaching our children to question opinions, seek answers and investigate options, you are giving them tools they will use for the rest of their lives. By showing them a variety of ideas and opinions, you assist them in formulating there own. When my kids are exposed to something new, we discuss it, they know that they have the right to decide for themselves, but must educate themselves on a topic before formulating an opinion. The world is expanding, the tools to navigate it are changing,
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:42 p.m.
nattie...since education is mandated by law ALL social brainwashing should be eliminated. Be it religious, gayness whoever's beliefs. Stick to the three R's. My child is in a private school not because of religion and not even because I particularly believe in their social values. But they spend less time emphasizing those values and more time on the 3 Rs.
carrier
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:19 p.m.
Who determines what is fairness, tolerance, and acceptance? Usually we are tolerant of those we agree with, intolerant to those who don't In the case of schools, the teacher leads the discussion and can direct it towards the outcome they desire. Do you want a teacher who might not believe what you believe leading the discussion?
nattiejames
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:47 p.m.
a2citizien, You miss my point. I don't think much of anything should be off-limits in school as long as there is an educational point to its use and that it falls within a broadly constructed sense of age-appropriateness. Theology, sociology, philosophy - and all manner of other ideas - should be the purview of schools in order to cultivate students worthy of participating humanely in a democracy and, indeed, living lives that are well-examined. What I am reacting to in my post is the narrow-minded view that would force schools to eradicate any area of inquiry that makes radical conservatives squeamish that they might actually be confronted with children who are exploring points of view that may differ from their own. It is for those who are scared of an open-exchange of ideas - for those who must control the dialog (like many posting to this discussion thread) - that I sardonically suggest the venues of either certain (not all) parochial schools or the home school.
a2citizen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:34 p.m.
Nattie, The song mentions god, religion and Sundays a dozen times. There is no need to opt out to a parochial school.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:49 p.m.
I'm sure that their school dances and events don't play music that promotes violence, demeaning women, and promiscuity, right? Since they're so strict about "controversial" material.
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:44 p.m.
I really feel people are missing the point. There is a right way and a wrong way to conduct business. The video which Mrs. Johnson played was not properly vetted. Again, school appropriate is crucial. I don't think the school was imparting its view on homosexuality by suspending her. I feel they were protecting the interests of parents and the general responsibility of professionalism with which they are charged with by ensuring that all schol materials are safe from profanity. With regards to books like huck Finn, these novels are considered classics and therefore exceptions are made. No question, it is a gray area. But all controversial materials should be fully vetted so an elevated dialogue can take place. This video was shown on a whim without much consideration for specific foul language.
ThinkingOne
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:44 p.m.
Where are you getting information that the video was played? 'Here's a video of the song. The video was not played in class.' I have not seen anything to indicate that this is incorrect. It might be, no one is perfect; but do you have information that the video was played?
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:21 p.m.
The other story clarified that they only played the song not the video. The other story is more detailed.
Tesla
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:38 p.m.
I wonder if she played Ebony and Ivory by Mcartney and Stevie if anyone would object. Or what if she busted out some old Helen Reddy "I am Woman." Ugh....Humans. I wanna go home.
Lola
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:56 a.m.
Or Dixie. What if she'd played Dixie? Do you think she would have been suspended for that?!?
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:12 p.m.
Take me with you...
meddler76
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:33 p.m.
Schools for minors should not engage in discussions about controversial social issues. It subverts the authority of the parents. It's simply not necessary.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:12 p.m.
subverts? really? If listening to a song, subverts the parental authority over a child, there are more severe problems going on in that home. BTW the article never mentioned the song being "discussed", it was just played.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:36 p.m.
Being against bullying gay children is not controversial.
PhillyCheeseSteak
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:21 p.m.
You should home school.
Tesla
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:41 p.m.
Good lord. *facepalm*
Classof2014
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:12 p.m.
Mrs.Johnson, I am sorry that this happened to you. Shame on the school for doing this! Thanks to Mrs. Johnson for promoting same sex marriage, I agree same sex marriage is fine. This is so disappointing....
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:10 p.m.
Ten bucks says she'll be on Ellen before the year's end, lol. I think AAPS administrators would have blown a gasket if one of their teachers went on the news with comments. I'm on the fence, I need more info.
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:18 p.m.
Thanks Diana. The original story says she only "asked the student if it was violent or if there was any profanity and he said no". Her interview in the video didn't make it clear whether she listened to it ahead of time or with the students.
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:08 p.m.
thecompound: The article clearly states that she listened to the song before playing it for the class: "She played it after making sure there was no violence or profanity in the lyrics"
thecompound
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:15 p.m.
Also, after reading some of the comments on the original story, I do agree that I don't think it is a good idea for a teacher to play/show something they themselves have not seen/heard. Going by just what a middle school student says about the song doesn't seem wise. Any comments about that from local teachers?
xmo
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:52 p.m.
Let's See, You cannot say the Pledge of Allegiance, have moment of prayer, fly an American Flag but you should have the right to play "Gay Songs" in schools? I am living the movie: Idiocracy ?????
clownfish
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 2:28 p.m.
Nope, you are living in a fantasy world disconnected from reality. Schools have flags, kids say the socialist Pledge (nearly mandated by The State now, btw) Perhaps you could explain to us the educational benefits of having all kids pray to Mecca five times a day? Would you feel better if that was allowed?
lmandrake
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 12:26 a.m.
I must have watched a different movie called Idiocracy. Did the one you saw star Luke Wilson and that guy from the Old Spice commercials?
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:07 p.m.
...so now there is a complaint about saying the pledge of allegiance? I cannot keep up with all this.
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:57 p.m.
Actually, you're legally required to say the pledge of allegiance and fly the flag now. What alternate universe are you living in?
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:47 p.m.
Don't expect a reasoned and rational reply. Internet trolls never provide them, having done their dirty work and fled from the scene.
kms
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:25 p.m.
I haven't yet been to a gym or pool in Michigan where we haven't stood, faced the American flag and sung the Star Spangled Banner at the start of a competition. In fact, schools have multiple flags in several places.
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:23 p.m.
Governor Snyder made sure it's law that the Pledge of Allegiance (gasp...written by a socialist) be recited in Michigan schools...one more step to make our great state more like...shudder....Texas.
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:22 p.m.
Are you kidding? It's now law in Michigan that all schools MUST say the pledge of allegiance and MUST fly the American Flag.
Ivor Ivorsen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:17 p.m.
xmo: Please name a school or district where saying the Pledge of Allegiance or displaying the U.S. flag is not allowed. Did you know both a now required under Michigan Law?
Ivor Ivorsen
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:52 p.m.
50 million Americans live in 9 states (and Washington DC) where same-sex marriage is recognized and legal. Millions of Americans in Washington, Maine, and Maryland voted in favor of marriage equality this past November 6. It is not unreasonable to expect that within a decade a majority of Americans will be living in states, possibly including Michigan, where same-sex marriage will be legal. In the not too distant future, suspending a teacher for something like this will seem shockingly backward and reactionary.
mady
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:50 p.m.
To Susan Johnson: I am so very sorry that this has happened to you. you have my sympathy and no, I'm not being sarcastic. all you tried to do was teach a little tolerance, and if those of us who work with school-age children(which I do) have the chance to pass along some life lessons, then we are remiss in not doing so. there's more to life than reading/writing/'rithmetic. Hang in there. sincerely, Madeleine , a.k.a. "mady"
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:09 p.m.
Oy ve, please do not teach grammar to any of the children, you will not be doing us a favor.
Atrain
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:43 p.m.
Yet when my child comes home singing "cumbiya my lord" it's ok. Seperate church and state. Public schools have to be reminded why they are public.
kms
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:40 p.m.
Many of the comments are focusing on the song and the teacher. But what about the boy who asked that the song be played? I wonder how he feels now. Perhaps he noticed bullying taking place in his school and this was his way to appeal to his fellow students for tolerance.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:04 p.m.
I do not think anything was "promoted". Could it be simply a "can we listen to this song", and an "ok" from the teacher. Sometimes things do not have secret motives, or bad intentions, sh*t just happens sometimes. and yippee for hindsight cause if we could have, should have, didn't have or would have, nothing would ever get done. The song is out in the public, I bet most of the kids heard it before. I doubt the teacher was thinking anything past the simple, "this is a song about tolerance and bullying". I would have loved the students who bullied my kids at school to be made to listen to it, it would have perhaps prevented the concussion my kid got at the hands of a bully, prevented me from having to move my other child to a different school because of such intense bullying my child was suicidal. I applaud this teacher, at least someone is taking a proactive stance rather than the " we didn't see it, so it didn't happen", garbage I have been handed. I think people are digging here, and the well may not be so deep.
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:15 p.m.
Yeah Bob..care to explain why the consequences of promoting a song against bullying should be negative?
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:08 p.m.
Perhaps someone should explain to him that actions have consequences. Sometimes you are better off not disturbing the hornets' nest.
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:08 p.m.
Now he knows to sit down, shutup and take whatever crap they are feeding you. Bravo South Lyon.
bobslowson
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:30 p.m.
That kid must feel horrible, knowing his teacher was suspended for simply playing a song he requested.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:01 p.m.
you make a very good point kms.
music to my ear
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:38 p.m.
teachers need to ask their principle if it would be appropriate, we must know with dealing with others peoples children their is always one or more in the bunch who does not approve, I am sure with every thing out there she should have known it was a little controversial . she should have, thought it through. given she just went a head and did it it would be an eye opener to future lessons in her class room. let her keep her job she made a mistake. middle school is still a little young.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:38 p.m.
Wow. A sad testament to education it is that reading that assemblage of words made my eyes hurt. A diatribe against public education, filled with mis-spelled words and incorrect grammar. Irony, much?
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:06 p.m.
Sorry middle school might be too late....a 14 year old in today's world is like a 21 year old 10 years ago. With internet and television kids grow up way too fast....better to head off fear and hate at the youngest age possible....this song should be played in elementary schools...
JohnP1
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:26 p.m.
I counted at least two offensive words while listening to this video. Simply put, this video is not school appropriate, especially for middle schoolers. While the spirit of this video is nobel, the manner in which the the message was extended to 12 and 13 year olds is concerning. In my view this teacher exercised poor judgement. Parents should feel safe that teachers are not subjecting their kids to foul language. Also, please spare me the "kids listen to far worse from today's pop music argument. Schools are places for learning, where decency and decorum are paramount. Schools should never feel comfortable lowering the standards inside the classroom to coincide with the lowering of standards outside of the classroom. A final editorial comment to dissuade any apologists from attacking my post; I am an aredent supporter of gay rights and I support any person, including Mrs. Johnson, who fights to acheive equal rights for gay men and women.
Rory Williams
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 7:51 p.m.
You are not an ardent supporter of gay rights. Also, which offensive words are you referring to? Maybe you should check to see what kids are reading in school these days.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:56 p.m.
Have you ever heard the rap music they play at school dances? Have you ever tris to get a teacher fired over it?
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.
John, which words in the song do you find offensive? The only one I can find is "f*ggot", and I think the context of its use and the way it's framed lessens the offense.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.
On the point of offensive words in the classroom "lowering the standards," I have two words: Huck Finn.
justcurious
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:25 p.m.
They are wrong. She is right. Simple.
MichU
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:09 p.m.
It's ridiculous that the teacher was suspended. The lyrics are thought-provoking and the point-of-view deserves awareness. Children certainly are aware of the bullying and bashing in our society and this action by the administration serves to intimidate inclusive, thoughtful educators. The people of South Lyon deserve better.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:56 p.m.
I am disappointed by some of these comments, complaining about this teacher playing music-really? Music is a big part of how our society sees the world. Music is Art. She is a performing arts teacher! make the connection people! I am concerned about the student that requested the song, is the school going to send him to a "reeducation camp". What about the child that complained about the song? Was it an actual complaint or did the kid go home and casually mention to his parents the song and the parents went nuts? If parents want to control everything their child hears, sees and knows, home school them or send them to a christian school where they will get one viewpoint. But this is public school. If you listen to the lyrics and the complexity of the music, anyone would see it was artfully put together and beautiful. It is so GP rated! These are the same kids watching South Park, The New Normal, and a host of other tv shows where topics are rated R, These are the same kids playing video games where killing is made into a sport! I have a son in middle school, he comes home telling me that kids in his class are smoking pot, drinking and having sex, and the school is worried about a song? Basically the South Lyon school system is punishing a teacher for playing a song about gay people. What does South Lyon Board of Ed think, if you never mention the word Gay, everyone that is gay will go away? Looks to me that the score is RedNecks 1 Normal People 0 Shame on you South Lyon Board of Education!
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:11 p.m.
Too bad annarbor.com decided that a defense of rednecks was a violation of their standards, and that a personal account of growing up in South Lyon and attending the schools there was a violation as well. To wit: this is par for the course in South Lyon; don't blame rednecks when they've been outnumbered by metro Detroit trnasplants for decades, who brought along their intolerant attitudes; and school administrators nowadays tend to be weak-spined and fearful of the least whiff of litigation. Or was it my personal opinion, based on living there for thirty years, that a sink hole might not be the worst thing to happen to the place?
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:48 p.m.
Well said and spot on Paul Taylor! That defines South Lyon to a "T".
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:50 p.m.
ok I will apologize for the redneck comment LOL. I am older than dirt! Should know better, shame on me. I should never equate redneck with ignorant, there were better words to use, but I knew the censor would delete my comment if I used them. Sorry folks!
justcurious
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.
I agree, great post until "rednecks vs. normal". BIG stereotype there, maybe because of your age?
towncryer
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:18 p.m.
I was with you until the "RedNecks 1 Normal People 0". Now YOU'RE stereotyping---HoneyBooBoo is pro-gay----"everybody's a little gay". just saying
Dave Bass
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:47 p.m.
Lets get on with teaching!
Sandy Castle
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:26 p.m.
That is teaching.
mssomebodynice
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:45 p.m.
Irony! Here is the irony! I was going to say no she shouldn't be suspended, until I listened to the lyrics and I stopped at the 'right-wing consevative' bashing!!!! I stopped it right there! What don't people understand about teaching tolerance? Does that mean of only minorities? That answer should be no! As a right-wing conservative Christian I will call all the Liberals out on this everytime! Look the word up before you start throwing it around! Laughing at peoples stupid selfrighteousness! Talk about ignorance! Don't suspend her. Just make her right the definition of TOLERANCE on the board. I am a teacher who is sick of liberals who think they can teach their twisted ideas in the classrooms. I really get it. I mean really get it! Ask yourself if you do too? Geeez!
Charley Sullivan
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:33 p.m.
So here are the lyrics in question: A pre-conceived idea of what iExplaint all meant For those that like the same sex had the characteristics The right-wing conservatives think its a decision And you can be cured with some treatment and religion Man-made, rewiring of a pre-disposition Playing God Where's the so-called "bashing?"
HaeJee
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:14 p.m.
As an independent voter (which voted Republican more times than Democrat until recently) I get really turned off with conservatives that make comments like yours. Probably why Republicans are doing so poorly right now and their party is in trouble. Your initial reaction is rage and blame towards your viewed opponent…….., don't forget your few claimed stereotypes of liberals. Read your comment....it is just bashing liberals. How can you try to lecture a group to make a point, when your being a hypocrite yourself? Here is the true "irony", your comment. I am relieved to see many people also did not appreciate your comment.
Woman in Ypsilanti
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:53 p.m.
Tolerance is not the same thing as acceptance.
justcurious
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:37 p.m.
I "msssomebodynice" in your comment. It wasn't very nice at all. Wow you are really over the edge on this one. The part about the "right wing conservatives" was pretty accurate in my estimation and if you believe as they do then don't complain when folks say it. I'm sick of the whole liberal vs. conservative thing myself actually, but this teacher did nothing wrong in my estimation. It was part of those kid's education.
FrankOZ
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.
I am not a right-wing conservative in any way, but listen to what the commenter is saying. You know, if you are liberal, the minute a song bashed the liberal left, you would be upset and would probably stop listening. Why is it okay for you to be offended and not for others. Because you feel you are right and everyone else is wrong. I can bear liberals OR conservatives who can't reconcile the fact that people have opinions that differ and everyone is entitled to feel offended if what they believe in is trashed.
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:16 p.m.
there was no right wing conservative bashing in the song. The lyrics are as follows "The right wing conservatives think it's a decision And you can be cured with some treatment and religion". That is not bashing, if you listen to many right wing conservative religious zylots, that is what they are saying. Read the lyrics, better yet Read a newspaper and see what is going on in the world.
bobslowson
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:07 p.m.
How tolerant of you to stop listening because you didn't like what was being said....the irony is delicious!
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:06 p.m.
If you stopped before listening to the complete song, or before reading the entire lyric, then you really cannot comment on this in an informed manner. If this lyric raised issues of intolerance, then it presented a teachable moment for the class for the discussion of intolerance. Also, the correct spelling of the word which describes the encoding of thought in readable form is "write," not "right."
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.
so you stopped the song at a word you didnt like, and didnt finish listening. Priceless! How can you possibly offer an opinion when you do not listen to the whole song? have to tell you, you had me running away at the word "conservative Christian".... as that usually translates to intolerance. Please understand that not everyone is christian, not everyone believes the same as you, and just as I will fight for your right to believe what you want, you must fight for the very same rights for those who do not believe as you do. A public school does not have to have christian beliefs as last I heard there still is a separation between church and state.
Dog Guy
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:40 p.m.
Public education in a tailspin has descended to having middle school performing arts teachers. Were Andy Hardy now to say, "Let's put on a show!", it would be a school project and Judy Garland would be assigned by a middle school performing arts teacher to set design and never heard from again.
Cheri
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:22 p.m.
Art and music classes promote creativity. Creativity is the cornerstone to development in not just artistic endeavors but also in science, math, and engineering. Without creativity, we are a stagnant society which will eventually fail.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:36 p.m.
The performing arts in schools teach a great many lessons, and support those from classes outside the performing arts. Collaboration, practice, focus, studying, textual analysis, listening. Dismissing them out-of-hand displays an unfortunate ignorance of their intrinsic value.
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:06 p.m.
Pretty sure having a music or art class has been around for years in the education system. You see this world consists of many people with a variety of talents and exposing children to these options will in turn make them more well rounded and intelligent. Also having kids sit and listen to a teacher ramble about a boring topic for the entire day actually doesn't work, having classes like this refresh children s brains in order to better function throughout the day.
CLX
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:22 p.m.
In my son's performing art class, they write plays (and act them out). They also write things like sport commentaries (and practice to be on the radio) and television news stories. I greatly appreciate the amount of writing that they do through this class. They forget that they are writing and just want to create an artful and interesting piece. And yes, he has a regular literature class, math class, social science, earth science and a foreign language. He gave up gym to take this class since he plays three sports regularly. It's a great addition to the curriculum and I think a terrific choice on his part.
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:09 p.m.
Nice gay stereotypes ya got there!
walker101
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:38 p.m.
The teacher made the decision to play the song at the request of a student, if she knew what the song was promoting she should have warned the class what in fact it was promoting and excuse those students who may oppose or disagree with song. Having students oppose and make them sit in class is kind of like bullying to me, which what she herself was promoting, what goes around comes around?
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:04 p.m.
Walker, the song itself is about BULLYING..not having same sex relations. If you oppose not being able to bully people then to bad..you get to sit there and listen to the song as you clearly need a better understanding on that topic.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:59 p.m.
Do students who "disagree" with algebra get to skip math class too? Where did this insane idea that people can't listen to things with which they disagree come from?
bobslowson
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.
@ Walker....what were her intentions that you seem to think are nefarious? Please enlighten me....
walker101
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:29 p.m.
Unfortunately this is how it starts, little song, little video, regardless if anyone disagrees with your stance they should have the freedom to sit or leave. Just like you have the opposition to read my opinions or not. It's called fair play and freedom of speech. Don't try to be so naive and think she was so innocent she knew what her intention were.
Jessica Webster
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:24 p.m.
I think we have the potential for some great conversations on this topic, but I don't think that It will happen if we resort to calling people names. Referring to people as rednecks isn't helpful in establishing a respectful dialog about something as important as this.
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:49 p.m.
From the US Department of Health and Human Services: "In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include: An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people. Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once. Bullying includes actions such as making threats, spreading rumors, attacking someone physically or verbally, and excluding someone from a group on purpose." Really? She was bullying the students?
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.
Funny how teachers don't get suspended for singing about heterosexual "marriage.". Shame on South Lyon.
Angry Moderate
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:38 p.m.
and most musicals feature...you guessed it...heterosexual relationships. Not to mention that many teachers have photos of their husbands or wives on their desk where students can see it, are you going to take those down? After all the school shouldn't be promoting sex.
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:31 p.m.
My daughter was in Tappen in the late 90's. I just texeted her with regard to "contemporary music" in music class or choir. She said they never snag stuff like that. They sang songs from musicals, but nothing one might here on the "rock and roll" radio stations. As I said in an earlier post I wonder what the format or norm is for that particular class? If listening to contemporary music is the norm then she should not have been suspended. If it is NOT the norm and that song was presented as a "learning moment" outside of the normal class offerings then she was out of line.
aamom
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:04 p.m.
Craig you just don't remember. Tappen did little shop of horrors last year.
snark12
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 6:03 p.m.
I don't know, Craig, I don't have kids and I didn't grow up around here. As I posted down below, we listened to plenty of "hetereo-themed" stuff in music class when I was in middle school. As for plays, I performed in Romeo & Juliet when I was in 8th grade. Poorly, I might add.
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:52 p.m.
snark12, are they singing those songs in middle school music class? I don't mean to sound snide, i don't know. The topic as I am addressing is what they do in middle school. Same with Diane Parrish, i don't recall seeing any of those plays when my kids were in middle school at Scarlett or Tappen. Maybe they were done in middle school and I don't remember.
snark12
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:22 p.m.
Really, TDW and Craig? I think steven was trying to be funny because it's so obvious that just about any song about love and relationships (that is, just about all songs) are about hetereosexual relationships. But if you want examples, how about Train's "Marry Me," which was a big hit last year. Or Justin Bieber's "Boyfriend". Or Maroon 5's "One More Night". Take a look at the Billboard top 100. Okay, maybe it's only current songs that are so sexed up. How "I Wanna Be Loved By You" by Sinatra among others, first performed on Broadway in 1928. The song played in South Lyon no more promotes gay sex than "Some Enchanted Evening" promotes straight sex.
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:16 p.m.
Some common school plays that feature heterosexuality: Romeo & Juliet Beauty & The Beast Little Shop of Horrors Guys & Dolls A Midsummer Nights Dream The Crucible Grease Footloose
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:30 p.m.
steven, Its been many years since my daughters were in middle school. But no I don't remember them singing about heterosexual relationships. Nor do i remember any school plays about about heterosexuality. You say " half the songs we sang in choir involved heterosexuality in some way" and all tdw and I are asking is to name a few.
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:33 p.m.
tdw, Craig, you've never heard a song mentioning heterosexuality at a school choir concert? Or watched a school play about heterosexuality? When I was in middle school, probably half the songs we sang in choir involved heterosexuality in some way, yet the teacher never got suspended. It's no secret - heterosexuals continually shove their sexuality down everyone's throats.
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:02 p.m.
I gotta agree with tdw. How many "heterosexual "marriage." songs are they playing? A bunch? A few? None?
tdw
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:21 p.m.
could you give a example of this please ?
Top Cat
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:32 p.m.
Students today can barely compose a complete sentence, can't find Iran on a map and don't know who the 3rd President of the United States is. Yet they have class time to listen to this drivel.
Liz
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:29 p.m.
Clearly you don't know my students. In addition to being able to do all of those things, I play music on occasion, and promote an atmosphere of safety and tolerance for all students and families, even those who may love the same sex, or have same sex parents.
Blue Marker
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:24 p.m.
@cinnabar, You're reading way too much into my comment. Top Cat made a very blanket statement about the kids today. I'm simply pointed out that it's not my experience. From that you got "let's not worry about kids in high school that can't read or write". Wow!
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:40 p.m.
cinnabar, since when is "tolerance is all that is needed to be a success", in school. I have 5 kids in the school system and each of them work their butts off, with projects, and homework, and volunteer hours, and sports, and the list goes on. Tolerance is part of BEING HUMAN. It should be taught by parents from birth. On a daily basis how does gay marriage actually affect YOUR life? How does it change the way you live? I have asked that question to many people who are against gay marriage and no one has ever been able to give me an answer.
cinnabar7071
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:21 p.m.
Blue so as long as your kids are kicking butt all is good, lets not worry about the kids in high school that can't read and write because tolerance is all that is needed to be a success. Got it.
Blue Marker
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:17 p.m.
Maybe your kid has these issues but mine is kicking butt! Speak for yourself, not for me.
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:40 p.m.
This is a performing arts class. You sing in a performing arts class, that's how it works.
cinnabar7071
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:28 p.m.
Playing songs and not teaching. I guess she forgot what her job was. I had a teacher in high school that played movies everyday, was nice as a kid but looking back I learned nothing usefull in his class. Teach the kids something usefull and you have nothing to worry about. I don't care what the song was about, she's a teacher and not a DJ.
johnnya2
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 6:07 a.m.
A music teacher was playing music OH NO. Pretty soon English teacher will assign reading and gym teachers will assign exercise instead of TEACHING.
ArthGuinness
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:01 p.m.
cinnabar7071 - You can't play songs in a performing arts class? That's like saying you can't show maps in a geography class.
steven
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:45 p.m.
She's a performing arts teacher. That's her job.
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.
She was trying to teach a very important lesson, actually: "...she told MyFoxDetroit.com that she thought it would promote understanding of diversity and fight bullying." Nothing useful?
dexterreader
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:26 p.m.
I agree with Sue. Some of the lyrics and language of all the other "songs" that people (not just teens) listen to these days are far worse. While we all don't have to agree on everything, wouldn't it be wise to promote tolerance and acceptance of others .... even if they are different than you .... or hold different beliefs than you?
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 8:19 p.m.
carrier: maybe because people don't just "disagree", they do hateful things, like beating up gay people or denying them the right to marry, just because they want everyone to live like they do. Whereas I have tolerance for someone who wants to interpret the bible to their own needs, I do expect them to have tolerance over my beliefs as well. Not so long ago, many people did not "tolerate" women or black equality, I doubt we want to return to those times. Recognition of differences is hard for some people, as is change, but it comes whether you agree with it or not. I just wish everyone could be nicer to everyone else and stop trying to make everyone else seem wrong if they do not believe the same things.
carrier
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:42 p.m.
That's right. Why do you think it is that pro-homosexual people have a hard time tolerating those who disagree with them?
PhillyCheeseSteak
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:18 p.m.
The artist who wrote the song/rap is incorrectly identified in this piece as "Ben Maclemore". His correct name is "Macklemore" and the song /rap is beautiful and thoughtful. According to Macklemore, who performed in Lansing Tuesday night and Detroit a week ago, "intolerance of the gay community in hip hop is widespread. The best rappers will use homophobic language on albums that critics rave about, making hip hop and homophobia inextricably linked. We have sidestepped the issue entirely, become numb to the language that we use, and are increasingly blinded to our own prejudice."
Macabre Sunset
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 8:03 p.m.
To be fair, with 99% of rap, the words are completely unintelligible. We shouldn't attempt to control critics. At least in the music world, no one listens to them anyway.
Paula Gardner
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:13 p.m.
I just corrected the name, and added a link to his website. Thank you.
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:13 p.m.
I'd suspend the teacher for playing any rap piece (notice I didn't say "song").
Unusual Suspect
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 1:38 p.m.
Nice try, johnny. I was a fan of rap, back when it was fun and creative: Run DMC, LL Cool J, Whodini, Grandmaster Flash. And a message for you comes from some lyrics of that time: "You be illin'." So go back to your thug "music." We're done with you.
johnnya2
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 6:03 a.m.
Sounds like you are old and out of touch. You criticize what you do not understand. The same things were said about Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, and Elvis. It is music and it is a PURELY American art form., Just because YOU do not get it does not mean it does not have value. So go back to your murder she wrote marathon, we are done with you here
Doug
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 12:50 a.m.
Rap is just noise!
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:53 p.m.
"Notice how everyone thought your comment and definition of what a song is was wrong?" Notice how much I care.
Paul Taylor
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5 p.m.
While no fan of rap, I would never go so far as to dismiss it as intrinsicly devoid of value or unworthy of inclusion in a definition of performing arts. It fits perfectly within that definition. There is rhythm, rhyme, music, expression, message, a performer and an audience. Such dismissal of rap out-of-hand has less to do with artistic criticism and more to to with coded racist terminology and dog whistle rhetoric.
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:57 p.m.
Notice how everyone thought your comment and definition of what a song is was wrong?
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:06 p.m.
"The song was written..... showing the struggle of a homosexual man from birth to death. " Not sure that describes the lyrics I read.
Homeland Conspiracy
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:02 p.m.
Think of the children. Ban music...
StopCrying
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:56 p.m.
Pretty sure Homeland was being sarcastic mady.....
mady
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.
the same way that the Third Reich tried to ban books?
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:57 p.m.
I have read the lyrics and do not find them offensive. however.... I would want to know more about the nature of the class. Do they routinely play contemporary music in the class? If so, Do they discuss the meaning of lyrics in the contemporary music as part of the class? Is this a music class? Or is this a sociology or political science class? If they don't normally play contemporary music in the class then it was absolutely out of line. My "old fart" thought is maybe it was better done at the High School level than the middle school level.
towncryer
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:09 p.m.
Yikes, I remember bringing the 45 'Undercover Angel' to class in junior high. In hindsight, that might have been a no-no! Ah...the good old days ;)
B2Pilot
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2 p.m.
Sorry ABC it has been a while since I was in middle school. I was inquiring as to more facts needed before forming an opinion; which is the logical thing to do before jumping to conclusions .
LAEL
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:45 p.m.
What does "normally play" mean? If it's the first time a teacher is incorporating music into a class, then it's not yet "normal" but it could be the start of a new normal. Many things can be taught through music.
1959Viking
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.
Exactly was this a normal part of the class to play cuts of popular music or not? If this was an interruption of the curriculum that's one thing, but If this was a normal part of the class, what is the controversy?
abc
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.
"...what exactly is 'performing arts'" Why are you commenting on a piece about the performing arts when you admit to not knowing what the performing arts are? If you have given the arts so little thought up until now maybe you should re-think why you need to start your inquiries here, and now.
Jessica Webster
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:38 p.m.
Back when I was in middle school, my music teacher used to encourage us to bring in music to class. We'd take a few minutes to share our favorites at the end of each lesson.
kms
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:32 p.m.
According to the Fox story, it was a class of 8th graders. One of the boys asked to play the song.
B2Pilot
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:04 p.m.
I had the same questions what exactly is 'performing arts' and we are talking about 9 - 12 year olds. Did she not have a lesson planned for the day already? or was this the lesson?
Billy
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:42 p.m.
"Susan Johnson, a performing arts teacher at South Lyon's Centennial Middle School, played the song at the request of a student" "Johnson was suspended this week by South Lyon school officials after another student in the class complained." Sometimes you're damned if you do....and damned if you don't. Sorry that your school administrators kowtow to ignorant parents a little too easily.
Sue
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:29 p.m.
Compared to most of the "music" listened to by young/pre/teens now, this song at least promotes peace, love and understanding. I'm really sorry that all of her students weren't able to accept that premise. Just because a school district is not on the front lines of liberalism does not mean that current discussions about issues should not be addressed. When young people are still choosing suicide over life because they are afraid to face life being gay...we have a LONG way to go!
A2centsworth
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 2:32 p.m.
cinnabar, it is a Performing Arts class, and music in an integral part of PERFORMING!
LAEL
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:42 p.m.
Cinnabar: music is part of education. Many things can be taught through music.
cinnabar7071
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:36 p.m.
Sue she's not a DJ. If she wants to play music, she has the wrong job.
Greg
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:08 p.m.
There is a long history of parents not wanting sex taught in the schools. What made this teacher think that supporting gay sex would go over well...
Michael Olsen
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 3:13 a.m.
sigh...It's about being gay, not gay sex. Just like a song about 'traditional marriage' is not about straight sex.
Enso
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 11:49 p.m.
@anti I see. You're just one of these people that evades questions and lives in denial. Good luck with that.
antikvetch
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 9:18 p.m.
Mr. Enso, too much weight will break the soapbox, and cause the chip to fall off the shoulder. Food for thought.....
dk
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 5:52 p.m.
Supporting or not supporting gay marriage shouldn't be part of the curriculum. Our students are falling behind academically because people would rather spend their time throwing in their $0.02 on this topic than demanding that our schools do a better job preparing our kids in math and science.
Enso
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 4:39 p.m.
@Ms. antivetch I don't care about your kids. Please explain how listening to a song is supporting and advocating sex to children.
Jessica Webster
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.
I just listened to the song. It appears to be about bullying and inequality. I didn't hear anything about sex.
dsponini
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:37 p.m.
Why do straight people always equate being gay with sex? Gay people do a lot more than just have sex....ridiculous Greg!
cinnabar7071
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.
Enso the teachers shouldn't be promoting marriage either. Thats not what they were hired to do.
antikvetch
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.
Mr. Enso, my kids used to argue the same way. "I was just kicking my foot forward and he ran into it....."
Enso
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.
Greg and anti... I don't understand. So promoting marriage = teaching sex now?
hifromdiana
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:47 p.m.
Did you watch the video or listen to the song? It does NOTHING to promote gay sex, and speaks only of having respect for everyone and their human rights. The logical leap you made speaks volumes about the work left to be done.
antikvetch
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:38 p.m.
Greg, stop being so logical. It is WAAAAAYYYYYYYY more fun to wrap yourself in the flag and scream "Oppression!"
Davidian
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 12:04 p.m.
I believe that freedom is the foundation of our country and our society. That means accepting things you may not always agree with. Unfortunately, some people out there are spineless and hateful. Perhaps they should consider moving to Uganda, where gay bashing is a cultural art. Gay people are part of our social fabric. Everyone knows and cares about someone that is gay, whether they know it or not. Get over it!
johnnya2
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 5:59 a.m.
@ Skyjockey, So there is a group that supports bullying in schools? If there is a large group of those people, that tells me all I need to know about YOU. As another point, John Lennon wrote a song called Imagine. If any MUSIC teacher is ever suspended for playing that song, the person responsible for the suspension should be fired on the spot
Skyjockey43
Fri, Nov 30, 2012 : 4:18 a.m.
Davidian, I happen to agree with you with regards to your views on gay people. But for the sake of argument, if this music teacher had selected a song about tolerance for the Tea Party, would you still be so adamant about freedom in our society? I think the issue here is that this teacher was advocating for a belief system that is not shared by a large portion of the population. Right or wrong, I don't think it's a school teacher's place to push her own personal views on someone else's kids.
Billy Bob Schwartz
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 3:48 p.m.
Well, dang my eyes! I agree with you, DonBee. In the case of public education, the context is very important. Launching out on a political swing is risky for any teacher. In order to understand this situation, you need much more information. That said, I was involved with someone many decades ago who taught at South Lyon Junior High, and we saw plenty of narrowness there. Sorry if that's the case now. I remember in particular that they removed the book "Lorna Doone" from the library as being too much for eighth graders to handle.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:38 p.m.
Davidian - If this song was played in a social studies class as part of a discussion on gay rights, I would be right with you. If it was played in a math class, I might find it inappropriate. Since it was played in a music class, I would have to understand the context of the class to decide if it was OK, or not. What was the activity that day in class? What were they studying? Why was the song suggested? What was the discussion that went with the song? All of these questions go to whether the song was appropriate or not. Was suspension the right answer for the teacher? Well, had they done something like this before? Had they been warned? Are they "pushing" a position in class, that they had been warned not to push on? The article does not have enough information to make a decision on. Typical of AA.Com. This isn't even an article since it is just a pointer to another news source. I will withhold any judgement until far more in the way of facts are available.
Michiganian
Thu, Nov 29, 2012 : 1:34 p.m.
Why do those opposed to gay marriage have to accept it? Why can't those in favor of gay marriage accept that some people are opposed?