Students learn scenario-based defense techniques to avoid being victimized

Posted on Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:59 a.m.

Students learn scenario-based defense techniques to avoid being victimized

By Heidi Fenton

Matthew Pickus and Andrea Kussman practice the Israeli self-defense techniques of Krav Maga at a cross-fit gym in Ann Arbor.

Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com

Lisa Profera stood, eyes trained straight ahead, as a man approached her with a knife. The man’s arms quickly wrapped around her neck, and within seconds, the blade was resting inches from her face.

Profera didn’t waver.

Instantly, she grabbed the man’s arm and twisted it, pulling him to the ground. The 5’1 woman stood much shorter than her male counterpart, but she had the tactics to outdo him. Profera grabbed the knife from his hand and took several steps back.

She was free.

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The scene playing out Wednesday night at Hyperfit USA in Ann Arbor wasn’t quite the same as a dangerous street fight. The weapon wasn’t real. But in Profera’s eyes, it was to be taken just as seriously.

Profera has taken Israeli self-defense classes called Krav Maga at the crossfit gym for about four years and now can say she’s trained to handle knives, guns, clubs, or just about any other weapon an assailant may pull. Her frame is small, but Profera said she isn’t scared.

“I certainly don’t want to ever have to use my skills, but I feel confident that I’d survive,” she said. “You have to defend yourself anyway you can. It’s not about being pretty or perfect, just getting out alive.”

Krav Maga was developed in Israel in the 1930s and those who practice it are classified in their experience level by belt colors, like in some other combat practices. First-timers begin at a white belt level and can progress all the way to earning a black belt.

Instructor Kate Mudrak said Krav Maga is based on four main goals: Addressing danger, attacking simultaneously, brutalizing and creating space. The idea is to fight back and flee, she said.

All around Mudrak on Wednesday, pairs of students stood, prepared for attack.

“Everybody, I want to see your partner choke you and push from behind,” she called out. “Your arms stay up. We’re not giving back massages, we’re choking.”

“He was man enough to try and attack you, you’re man enough to beat the crap out of him,” she said, encouraging the students to focus.

Instructor Kate Mudrak (right) works with students learning the self-defense techniques of Krav Maga at Hyperfit USA, a cross-fit gym in Ann Arbor.

Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com

Cynthia Webster approached her partner, Andrea Kussman, and held tightly to her neck. Immediately, Kussman turned and grabbed Webster’s shoulders, and in a flurry of instantaneous motions, Kussman thrusted her knee up into Webster, grabbed her shoulder, and turned her away. She too, was free.

Kussman has taken the self-defense classes for several months, and said she has always been a bold person. But the tactics she’s learned have put her in her place, she said.

“I always thought that if someone came to attack me, sure, I could punch them,” she said. “But now I realize my punches were pretty pitiful.”

Matthew Pickus has taken Krav Maga classes for four years and now helps to instruct others. He’s confident anyone has the ability to perform and said the skills build off each other.

A person can’t plan for everything, Pickus said, but can know enough to think innovatively in tough situations by practicing a wide variety of scenarios.

That’s much the same idea instructors have at Quest Martial Arts, another place in Ann Arbor where self-defense classes are taught.

In light of recent attacks in downtown Ann Arbor, Clayton Macy, an instructor at Quest, said it’s an opportunity to spread the word about the value of learning defense techniques. The practices can be useful in all types of situations, but often, people don’t take the time to try.

At Quest, instructors talk about ways to stay safe at night by paying attention to surroundings, and also share lessons on physical technique.

“When you have that confidence, you kind of walk with it and just having that confidence also prevents people from becoming victims,” Macy said.

Heidi Fenton covers police and courts for AnnArbor.com. Reach her at heidifenton@annarbor.com or 734-623-4673. You also can follow her on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.

Comments

jim spalding

Mon, Aug 8, 2011 : 3:43 p.m.

These are all great comments. I think that self defense training, especially for a woman is very important. Although this article is geared toward two organizations, and promoting their style, I think prior to committing to a self defense style research should be done. A google search is a nice way to start, help locate available schools. However the key is the lead instructor. Anyone can teach self defense, but what are they really teaching? What is their experience, what is their philosophy. Krav Maga, judo, Commando Krav Maga, Taekwondo, all good stuff. Don't settle until you watch a class and check out the instructor.

Gregory Marquis

Mon, Aug 1, 2011 : 5:02 p.m.

While I don't disagree that a weapon is handy for self defense, the sad truth is that in most cases, women who attempt to use items such as pepper spray end up having it used against them. (Check with your local law enforcement, it is sad but true.) It is usually carried on key chains or in purses where it is relatively ineffective). A solid powerful kick to the groin followed by an elbow to the nose is a great way to discourage an attacker, and if the spray is available, follow up with that! Nothing like adding a little pepper to an open-bleeding facial part! Krav Maga training is a great way for women AND men to learn self defense and to get in shape in the process. Just like using a weapon, proficiency means maintaining your training. Even with a handgun, if you don't practice regularly, your ability to use it under stress is compromised.

Todd

Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 6:21 p.m.

Reading through these comments I see a string of thought. A gun, tazer, pepper spray, more concealed carry are better than any "martial art". I believe this to be true. Being prepared can save your life or protect another life. Krav Maga on the other hand is another piece in the puzzle. It is not a "marital art", it is Combat Fighting System. It can stand alone or be more complete when added with all of the previously listed self defense items. It was developed for the Israeli Military and it has proven its self over time to be a perfect fit for the everyday civilian that wishes to defend themselves. It is not a cure all, it is part of a whole package. When your gun faults or jams, you have Krav. Drop your pocket knife or you don't have that split second to get your pepper spray or jump in your car, you have Krav. Krav will not allow a 5 foot woman to go toe to toe and beat a hardened 6 foot 250 lb criminal, it WILL give her situational awareness (not false security) to not be caught by surprise and the techniques WILL give her that fraction of a second needed to escape and more important, SURVIVE. I encourage anyone, no matter what walk of life to go to a Krav Maga class, they offer free classes to see if it fits what you are looking for. It is not a tend and it is distilled down to be learned by all.

Todd

Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 6:23 p.m.

"trend" Spelling edit.

Tru2Blu76

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.

Krav Maga is a legitimate part of the self defense tool kit array. But like learning to use a handgun for self defense: this takes time (quite a bit of it) and money. There are (fairly expensive) handgun courses for beginners too but if you look at the amount of time spent on each: you quickly see that the time it takes to learn handgun use (and tactics) is substantially less. Moreover, you have to set time aside for refreshing both sets of skills. Bottom line: I think (and recommend) learning both Krav Maga and handgunning is the best solution. But everyone should be aware of the amount of time and money it will take to become proficient at both and to maintain those skills is "significant" to the average person. The only thing omitted from this is that (typically) many seniors and others with disabilities are not able to make use of Krav Maga compared to young and healthier people.l BTW: I see nothing wrong or unusual in "relevant" ad placement in this or any other situation. The whole idea of the Free Market is to be "first" in catching trends. This isn't "creating a market" but responding to one which has been sparked by demand.

Kate Mudrak

Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:36 a.m.

You said "many seniors and others with disabilities are not able to make use of Krav Maga compared to young and healthier people" I see your point and I completely understand where you are coming from but I have to disagree. Imi Litchenfeld created Krav for all body types, genders, and age. I invite you to come check out a class, we'll find a way to make sure you can learn the techniques in spite of your age or any disabilities you may have. :)

Mariella

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:18 p.m.

Can the AnnArbor.com editors change the title of this article? "Students learn scenario-based defense techniques to avoid being victimized" is wholly inaccurate. No techniques will prevent students from being victimized 100% of the time. The title is misleading.

Mariella

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:18 p.m.

Kate: Yes. That's much more accurate.

Kate Mudrak

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:01 p.m.

Would "Students learn scenario-based defense techniques to HELP avoid being victimized" Or "minimize the chance of being victimized" be any better?

Kate Mudrak

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.

We're not saying you're definitely going to get away from an attack, we're saying with hard word, and determination, and intelligence, you have a greater chance of being able to escape unscathed. A gun alone won't always save you, and neither will self-awareness tactics. But couple these ideas with self-defense techniques, and yes, your chances of getting out alive increase substantially. Besides, learning these techniques certainly won't hurt you, they will help you. So why leave it to chance? In the end, you have to ask yourself, "how much is my life worth?"

Independent_Thinker

Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 1:28 a.m.

Hi Kate, I think it's great that you are teaching people Krav Maga. You sound passionate and disciplined about what you do. I have a feeling you'd give the average street thug a run for his money. I'm one of the gun people here, but also believe in being in good shape and knowing simple yet brutal hand to hand techniques for self defense. I think one of the big problems with both men and women taking "some" self defense classes is a false sense of security that techniques not rigorously practiced against a fully resisting target will be effective in a real defense situation. Unfortunately, I think that many of the self defense instructional facilities are more into the business of selling the idea of self defense than they are passionately teaching what works. Unfortunately, great respect is given early on to these instructors and people feel as though their abilities have been adequately assessed by said instructors, which is often not the case. I am appalled that "Quest" Martial Arts is mentioned here. They are the epitome of a McDojo. It sounds like what you teach is legit. But, I think even you will admit that if a woman started taking self defense classes this week, she can't expect to be realistically competent for quite some time, and possibly never, if she does not lead a healthy and physically fit lifestyle???

Kate Mudrak

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 8:15 p.m.

To address some of the comments made, I agree that having a gun is certainly a great idea if you are trained and have enough sense to use them correctly. I also agree that is incredibly important for women to use common sense in everyday situations, including walking alone at night. Being aware is so important... but just being aware is not enough. You need to couple that with at the very least, a basic idea of self-defense techniques. In Krav Maga, we are not telling you that you are 100% guaranteed to never get attacked or always be fine as long as you know this stuff, we are telling you your chances increase substantially of being able to protect yourself by knowing this stuff. Should you ever get attacked, (yes even by someone twice your size) the skills you learn in Krav will allow you address the danger in a more calm and intelligent way than if you had no training at all. Learning Krav is not giving a false sense of security, it's protecting you! Krav Maga was developed specifically for all fitness types, body types, gender, age, etc... The purpose is to teach people how to defend from a point of disadvantage. That way you know what to do should you ever be placed in a really bad situation. No situation where someone is trying to hurt you is a good situation, but with the techniques in Krav, you'll have a better understanding of how to get out alive, even from the worst of those situations. Ideally, you'll have a chance to see an attack coming, and you can take proper measures, but if it is a surprise, you know what to do because you've practiced it from that position over and over again. continued...

Mat

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:30 p.m.

@ Camp Comments: The Real Deal promotion was set up several weeks ago. The original deal ran July 8-10th weekend, but had technical difficulties and most of the purchasers couldn't complete the transactions (look at the past deals). A2.com is running the deal a 2nd time in an effort to address the botched 1st run. A2.C.M.A. did not choose the timing of the 2nd run. However, I think the timing is perfect because of the heightened awareness to an ever present and increasing danger. We live in a relatively safe city, but many violent crimes do happen, and as statistics have proven, most sexual assaults go unreported- especially on college campuses. We have been offering reality based self defense courses for the past eight years. First as a student group at U of M, and then as a commercial studio accessible to the public. Our objective is to make sure everyone goes home safely, not to make a 'cheap buck'. A tremendous amount of time and effort goes into coordinating such courses. Scheduling and personnel, must be secured, as well as promotion and other logistics. The small proceeds earned from these events go to fund all of this. @ All of the Gun advocates: Firearms are definitely advantageous, but it's an investment of time, and money that may not be possible for most people. Also, unless the defender knows how to safely keep the weapon away from an attacker in close quarters (20ft or less), the intended benefit may become a fatal liability. Too often even trained police officers have had their firearm taken from them by a perpetrator, particularly female officers. I agree that firearm training is a must, as well as hand to hand defense. There is no simple 1 stop easy solution, personal protection is a complex subject with many angles and must be practiced like all skills. Unfortunately most people don't give it enough attention. People invest more time and money into their clothing, than they do to protect what goes into them. We must adapt to survive.

Camp Comments

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:19 p.m.

Mat - thanks, my post is directed at A2.com more that your organization. They exercise control over timing and placement of ads and "deals" and this economic model of advertising requires judgement and discretion by the publisher. I'd like to think that if you (or any other self-defense provider) had approached A2.com and asked "Hey, can I run a "Deal" against your rape stories?" that someone in the organization would have said no. That the deal is re-running against the rape stories makes me wonder if the answer would have been yes. That's about publishing, not your school, which I agree provides a valuable service. A story about self defense options and other methods of keeping safe is good too. But A2.com is an evolving experiment and not everything works as well as it might. Perhaps they could have suggested traditional web display ads during this time instead of the "deal" program - which raises eyebrows here because of the direct revenue-per-deal sold nature of the program. Good luck to you and your new students.

Frankyhollywood68

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:52 p.m.

Rape is aweful and must be stopped. And don't get me wrong, I know so many wonderful women that live in this city and I'm concerned for their saftey. But the thought of 'most of them' arming themselves? one disagreement and every other guy in this town would be over at St. Joe's getting lead removed from their face.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:43 p.m.

No one is saying guns are THE ANSWER. They are a viable part of a rounded self defense plan. As for the rest.... open carrying does not require a license, Ann Arbor PD will run a purchase permit for you in a few minutes and MC Sports right in Briarwood has a small selection of quality firearms...

Frankyhollywood68

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.

ok, I was being facetious but you, in a long round about way, proved my point. A back ground check takes two weeks to a month, a decent hand gun starts at 200 bucks and the only place you can go in the area with any kind of selection other than online is Cabela's or Gibralter trade center. those who are willing to go through all that aren't just worried about a rapist...but are actual gun enthusiasts. I don't think guns are the answer.... kids walk around here like it's Disney Land. Open your eyes and use your head.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:07 p.m.

ah the ever and oft quoted blood in the streets and OK Corral argument.... Look up the stats. Those who bother to be background checked, pay fees, get training... yah those are the guys and gals are the ones likely to fly off the handle and shoot every n'r do well in sight. Thanks so much for lumping law abiding citizens who as a group are statistically less likely than police to commit a crime, thanks for lumping us in wiht the nuts and criminals... appreciate it.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.

All posturing aside and with complete respect and props to ANY self defense training, there is a reason that firearms were created. That same reason is why women are the fastest growing segment of the concealed carry society. Firearms are force multipliers or equalizers. It doesn't matter YOUR stamina, stature or sex. Conversely it matters little of the attacker as well. Lots of good material in the last few days, especially to firearms here. Go to a range, try it, get instruction. Get training if you at all possible. Then decide for yourself if this is right for you, it's a heavy and serious responsibility and mostly a personal one. As you can see we gunnies agree an armed society is a polite society. You'll not find a friendlier group of people. I and my friends here jump at the chance to introduce new people to the world of firearms. Take advantage of it.

Independent_Thinker

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:55 p.m.

Learning to defend yourself is a "must have" skill in this world. However, I am in strong agreement with Terry Brennan. Physical size, athleticism, and previous fighting experience are everything. I haven't been in very many fights as an adult (2 as an adult - a much younger adult). I can tell you from experience that once that adrenaline hits, your fine motor skills go out the window and strength, speed, and endurance become everything. I think this can be seen pretty clearly in the early UFC fights. Except for the grapplers, the vast majority of high ranking martial artist fights turned into what looked like a common street fight. They threw as many hard punches as they could as quickly as possible. There were no grabs, arms twists, or any of that other stuff. I can't think of a more high risk/low payoff move than trying to grab a knife from somebody's hand. If you are not stronger than them by a decent margin, forget about it altogether. Don't even bother giving your self the false sense of security that you'll be able to do this. You're chances are much better running. Humans of both genders have the natural ability of flight when in danger. Use flight if they have a knife. Women can be strong, smart, and athletic. However, let's face reality, the average man is stronger than the average woman. The average man has done a lot more tousling, fighting, and rough athletic activities than the average woman. An angry, crazy, man who has likely been in prison like the dirt bag that is wandering around A2 right now is likely much stronger and more aggressive than the average young A2 woman. A few self defense courses will give you nothing but a false sense of security. Have you ever tried to twist the arm of a resisting opponent? If you want to defend yourself - Michigan supports your right to keep and bear arms. Get a handgun, get some excellent training, and carry it. Always practice good situational awareness skills and stay in good shape.

aawolve

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:16 p.m.

Very well said, thanks for posting this.

aawolve

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.

They make purses that are designed for concealed carry. I think that's a more reliable option for the majority of women.

Joe Kidd

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:38 p.m.

Yup they have holsters built in. But you still have to make sure the purse is open and you can get the firearm cleared from the purse and contents. The best place is the place it can be drawn the quickest. It takes lots of practice.

Camp Comments

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:24 p.m.

I'm all for self defense classes, but the placment of your "Real Deal" promotion ad (for self defense classes) both yesterday and today gives me pause. Back in the day, editors were more careful about placing ads against related editorial. Perhaps the web has changed all that, but isn't the economic model for your "Real Deal" similar to Groupon - AnnArbor.com receives a substantial portion of the revenue for each "Deal" purchased? Yesterday's lead story was the press conference about the recent attacks, today it's a story touting the virtues of self defense classes, in each case with a few other headline stories related to the attacks folowing, and directly underneath all of that ("above the fold" as it were) is your "Deal." Am I the only one questioning whether this "Deal" is just a cheap attempt to generate (small) revenue in the face of a fast developing crime threat to women in our community?

Mat

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:32 p.m.

Davidian

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:15 p.m.

@Forever27, you said: "nevermind the fact that pulling a gun on someone is the last thing suggested for self defense in these situations..." Says who exactly?

Joe Kidd

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:36 p.m.

Not me, an instructor for years. Never heard such. You do not rank responses first to last, you rank them based on the circumstances presented to you. That would be like saying, okay I have to punch him first, see if that works, then kick him, nope, well okay try gouging the eyes, grab the crotch, and just before passing out decide its okay to shoot. The physical differences that can present with a male attacker and a female victim IMHO should be a factor in the after shooting review. A small women should not have to wait until the threat reaches a certain level since by that time is may be futile.

Forever27

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:34 p.m.

anyone who has trained, or been trained in self defense and gun safety.

dading dont delete me bro

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.

time to allow students with cpl permits to carry on campus and other surrounding 'no carry' areas. nothing like a criminal's 'free lunch'. 'no carry' = no gun carrying victim.

Tru2Blu76

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:56 p.m.

Amen to that! I think that this "idea" of having some kind of "safety rule" which presumably trumps our right to defend our lives is nonsense and should not be allowed to stand (constitutionally speaking). If schools could guarantee safety in their "school zones" - then such a rule would be valid. But they can't -and neither can other entities like malls and stores (which stupidly decide to create "no guns" policies for patrons and employees).

smokeblwr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.

All trolling and cowboy posturing aside, how would a person with a (legal) gun in an elevator with a stranger manage to get the gun out if they were attacked? The first thing they would have to do upon meeting the stranger is pull the gun out "just in case" because in a confined space there is way they'd have time or the ability to pull a gun out of a holster before the attacker was on them. Unless you were a 500lb hairy wookie, but then again nobody would attempt to fondle a wookie.

Tru2Blu76

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:49 p.m.

smokeblwr: in addition to the good advice of others, I would also say that one who has these abilities (with gun or physical defense) learns they should always "engage" any suspicious person they find themselves with in confined spaces. By that I mean: keep a friendly but confident expression on your face (be an actor) and say something like, "Hi, how are you?" Predatory personalities look for already frightened prey. They also typically think no one notices their presence. Once you "light them up" in a friendly way: you've just reduced the chance of being attacked substantially.

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:42 p.m.

staging = snagging

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.

@ Kidd Personal for pocket carry I like centennial j frame (internal hammer) from S&W no staging issues there. I would also suggest night or laser sights for low light conditions. I also would say to any woman get a purse with built in holster to easy deployment. Just dropping in to a purse is not ideal.

Joe Kidd

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:29 p.m.

An excellent point Smoke and one that must be taught to people who carry them. The ability to deploy your weapon is critical. If you firearm is at the bottom of your purse or (God forbid) strapped to your ankle you are pretty much toast. You also have to consider, if your firearm is in your pocket, if you can get it out quickly without the hammer catching your clothing. So look to get a firearm like the Smith and Wesson J frame pistol, available in various calibers. No problem in an elevator for me. Heck I would shoot through my pocket if I had to.

Independent_Thinker

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:03 p.m.

Situational awareness. Depending on the circumstances you have several options: A) Don't be there because you realize getting into that elevator will make you vulnerable. Best option. B) Have your hand on the legal 3" or less bladed folding knife that you should always be (legally) carrying on your belt or in your pocket. If you choose not to, you have keys, a pen, whatever. C) Hand on gun the moment you realize you will be alone with this person (other people step off elevator or whatever) and you feel threatened, draw and fire if necessary.

redwingshero

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.

If you knew wookies, you would just let him win (see C-3PO).

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:13 p.m.

Obviously confined spaces are difficult seniors. The keys would be awareness (ideal not getting into a confined space with a stranger that alarms you), keep as much distance as you can between you and him (which won't be much but every bit helps), and you may have to fight him to create the space to draw and fire. Giving the space the shooting will take place in it may be necessary to press the gun into the attacker as he attacks and fire. Yes certain holsters like pocket holster or Hand bag style holster could allow someone alarmed by a potential attacker to put their hand on the gun without anyone knowing in case an attack started. Hope that helps.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:07 p.m.

Force on force training simulates such scenarios with airsoft guns.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:06 p.m.

The term you are looking for is "creating space". Even in an enclosed environment, you can attempt to create enough space to protect your draw and firearm once it is out. Remember they don't know that you have a weapon. You need to protect the side where the gun is. Fight and distract the attacker from the draw. Keep your parts out of the line of fire while shooting. In this scenario, with minimal choices, this is not the time to draw and brandish. Brandishing allows take aways. If you drew it, you were in fear of your life. Shoot until they stop the attack.

Alaska

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.

Are there not any more constructive tags than "Ann Arbor rapes" on a story regarding Krav Maga and self-defense techniques? Really?

Camp Comments

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:47 p.m.

Indeed the word "rape" does not appear in the story, only in the tags and in "related content" (which share the same tag), all of which traffic next to the "Real Deal" for self-defense classes (which generate revenue for AnnArbor.com). Perhaps the ad sales folks consider these tags highly constructive.

Terry Brennan

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:14 p.m.

Martial arts training is a wonderful, empowering activity, but women need to be really careful about how they view physical self-defense. This article comes pretty close to creating a false sense of security by suggesting that "if a big, powerful man does 'A', I could just do 'B' and everything would be alright". It's great to shed the victim mentality and decide before-hand that you will act decisively in the interest of your own safety. Some "moves" are fine too, as long as women understand what an uphill battle they potentially have at that point. Size, strength, and athleticism matter in a HUGE way in a physical confrontation. Boxers have weight classes for a reason- it's potential suicide for a professional boxer to stand toe-to-toe with another man who outweighs him by 30-40 lbs. What if all the time spent learning moves was used to analyze ones lifestyle choices and minimize ones exposure to high-risk activity (not always possible). I don't want to sound too critical; this is a cool article and a worthwhile activity...just something to think about.

EyeHeartA2

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:49 p.m.

I think part of the deal would be to by time, make noise etc.. Have the attacker go away, hopefully with some brand new identifying feature - like half an ear lobe.

Joe Kidd

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.

I agree Terry. The other aspect is you can't take one or two classes and master this. To be efficient you have to train, train, train and spar, spar, spar.

Tex Treeder

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:33 p.m.

Agreed. The best thing martial arts training does is develop a sense of awareness and the ability to avoid being caught in a bad situation in the first place.

smokeblwr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:11 p.m.

Darn! I got beat to the "I'd rather have my finger on the trigger" comment....

cette

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:07 p.m.

apropos...

Wolf's Bane

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:48 a.m.

I would still recommend carrying a tazer or a concealed handgun with a permit of course. Nothing says "go away" like a hand gun.

Joe Kidd

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:18 p.m.

I agree with Wookie but I would add, "If you are able, willing, and knowledgeable to use it." Can't understand Forever's comment "last thing suggested for self defense." In all my years of being a firearms instructor I never heard or taught that. I hope these people teaching this course are getting a liability waiver from their students that states this may not work.

Ricebrnr

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.

I'd like you to cite anything to back that statement up. Cuz funny, most people including criminals run at the sight of a firearm...

grimmk

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:15 p.m.

Right, when it's just as easy to have the gun taken away from you. Just because you carry one does not mean you'll be the one using it. Attacker see's gun and I can almost guarantee the attacker will grapple with you for it. It's a much more intimidating than a knife. Now the attacker has the gun and you have nothing.

Wolf's Bane

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.

Same think can be said for assaulting someone with your fist... so be careful out there. Enjoy the foam cushions.

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.

@Forever27 You're welcome. As a CPL instructor and CPL holder it our responsibility to correct such gross and dangerous statements. Use of a firearm (or any lethal object) in self-defense is a grave and complex issue that deserves much forethought and training. Using a firearm should be the last resort to fend of death or rape. Also I am sorry for all the typos.

Forever27

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:42 p.m.

@baker437, thank you. By no means am I saying that people shouldn't protect themselves, nor am I saying that people shouldn't be able to carry concealed weapons. It is the cowboy mentality that bothers me. Most people don't understand the levity of carrying, and especially of discharging, a weapon. "Shoot first and ask questions later" should never even enter the mind of anyone, even victims or potential victims.

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.

Obviously this is answering the question if a dog attacked you, but the statements about lethal force would apply to any situation by any attacker.

baker437

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:31 p.m.

@A2 Wookie Please be careful about you state things. Your statement is overstated and seems to be trolling for a argument. Either way it puts a negative image on us CPL holders (if you are one). Anyone one who wants advice on lethal force laws should talk to lawyer. (Also Taser are illegal in MI )Here a better summery "Under Michigan law, any use of a firearm is an application of deadly force. Deadly force is legally permissible when it is proportional to the threat. Meaning, that deadly force may be used to prevent death, great bodily harm that could lead to death, or rape. It is entirely possible that an animal could do great bodily harm that could lead to death. So, it is possible that the use of a pistol against an attacking dog would be a justifiable use of force. Keep in mind that the circumstances would have to be such that you are in a place where you have a legal right to be, and that there is sufficient indication that your life is in danger when you fire. If you were to fire when the dog is too far away, or running away, or if you hit something other than the dog, or the dog is a toy poodle, you might face serious legal consequences. The key is that any use of force must be reasonable under the circumstances." <a href="http://mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp" rel='nofollow'>http://mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp</a>

Wolf's Bane

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:30 p.m.

Just answered your question, huh? If getting attacked is so low, than me or any other legally armed persons pulling a weapon are also extremely low, huh? So, go ahead and spend a couple hundred dollars playing with foam cushions and men pretending to be weak.

Forever27

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.

right, because "shoot first and ask questions later" is a great philosophy. You don't think it might be adding to the danger by giving someone a loaded gun and a license to shoot? All that does is increase the risk of somebody getting shot who isn't an attacker. The odds of someone getting attacked are still extremely low. Too low to justify arming the populace at the same time you highten their anxiety.

Wolf's Bane

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.

Luckily, in the state of Michigan, if you feel your life is in danger, you can shot your attacker and ask questions later... of course, it has to be justified, but I bet a woman walking to her car in a darkened garage late at night has every right to shot an attacker given the time and given serial rapes and attempted rapes. I wouldn't hesitate to shot someone that threatened me. Of course, that's just me. If you want to be a victim, go ahead.

Forever27

Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:58 p.m.

nevermind the fact that pulling a gun on someone is the last thing suggested for self defense in these situations... What makes you think that the attacker wouldn't have a weapon?