Snyder recall petition language approved
Language was approved this morning for a petition seeking the recall of Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder.
The Washtenaw County Board of Election Commissioners approved the wording on a 2-1 vote with County Treasurer Catherine McClary voting against it, said Matt Yankee, acting director of elections for Washtenaw County. County Clerk Larry Kestenbaum and Circuit Court Judge Donald Shelton voted to approve the wording, Yankee said.
Rick Snyder
The group Michigan Citizens United can now collect signatures for its recall effort. The group must collect 806,522 signatures in order to place the measure on the November ballot.
The petition cannot be submitted to the state until six months after the governor took office, which is July 1.
Michigan Citizens United spokesman Tim Kramer earlier said the group is made up of a broad coalition of Michigan residents. He said the group opposes legislation that allows the appointment of an emergency financial manager for school districts and municipalities struggling financially as well as other policies of the governor.
The group had to file the petition in Washtenaw County because this is Snyder's legal county of residence. Snyder lives in Superior Township.
The petition wording says Snyder: "has approved and signed various laws that take authority and funds from local governments and school districts and vest them with the state. He has obtained for himself, through his appointed Emergency Financial Managers, the power to invalidate legal and binding contracts entered into by properly elected local authorities. He has sought tax increases upon retirees and lower income families, but instead of addressing the deficit, he has sought large new tax cuts for corporations and businesses."
Before the petition was approved this morning, McClary moved to reject the wording, but that failed for lack of a second, Yankee said.
After the meeting, McClary said parts of the petition wording were not clear in her opinion. "I believe very strongly that it's important for voters to have a very straightforward document that they are voting up or down," she said. "Straightforward and grammatically correct."
The governor's legal counsel submitted a written statement asking the commission to reject the petition language as unclear and taking issue with several claims in it.
Editor's note: A link to a PDF of the recall petition, meant to show only the wording of the recall effort, was removed to avoid any confusion about the document. The form was not the final version of the petition that will be circulated.
Comments
jkl47
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.
New information. There's a way to stop the EFM before they can do their dirty work. <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971713/-Michigan-has-a-History-of-Home-Ruledespite-the-Unconstitutional-takeovers-using-Dillons-Rule" rel='nofollow'>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/30/971713/-Michigan-has-a-History-of-Home-Ruledespite-the-Unconstitutional-takeovers-using-Dillons-Rule</a>
brightside
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 5:03 a.m.
Snyder says EFM to be used "rarely" yet he is supposedly training 200 future EFMs (bankers, lawyers, lobbyists) and the mich.gov website lists 123 cities plus villages and townships that are poised for EFM assignment (including AA and Ypsilanti, btw). Doesn't sound rare to me. Sounds like lots of people see juicy local public resources that they would like the opportunity to put into private hands. Things like empty school buildings, lake shore parks, etc. Did you see that the Detroit Public Schools EFM (Mr. Bobb) just got an $80,000 raise? His annual salary: above $450,000. And teachers are the greedy ones??
DonBee
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 2:43 a.m.
brightside - See my post above. 200 people attended. They were not paid. The meeting was open. Less than 1/3 of the people in the room were likely looking for work as EFM. As to Mr Bobb salary his contract is on line. Some of the money comes from the state and the rest from private foundations. Bobb's base salary will increase from $260,000 to $280,000 and he'll get $145,000 in supplemental income from philanthropic organizations. That's up from $84,000 in private money last year. Is this a silly amount? Well if the Superintendent of AAPS - a district that is 1/10th the size of DPS can make $250,000 plus perks, then I guess Robert Bobb can make his salary. But, since I think the AAPS salary is ridiculous, you can bet I think this one is out of line too.
Mick52
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:46 p.m.
This is such nonsense. I can't wait for some twit to ask me to sign this petition. I think I will just stand next to them and ask people to sign a petition in support of the Governor and see who collects the most signatures. I hope they have done some surveys and have the numbers. Going to look like, well, losers if the number falls short, or if they get enough, lose the vote.
jkl47
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:45 p.m.
@DonBee
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:51 p.m.
jkl47 - I never said it was, but your post indicated that Governor Snyder appointed the EFM, which is UNTRUE. (As to my feelings on the changes to the EFM law, see my other posts). But, facts are not important, dogma is. Good luck Michigan
jkl47
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:48 p.m.
Trying again. @DonBee, Benton Harbor may have had an EFM since Granholm was in office, but back then he had to work WITH the mayor and the city council to come up with a way for the city to come out of its financial problems. With the new rules, he has total control and the mayor and city council can't do anything about it. They have no control, and the people who elected them are being ignored. That's not democracy.
Votekeeper
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:45 p.m.
My video of the 23 minute hearing can be viewed. downloaded. or embedded at <a href="http://vimeo.com/23055596" rel='nofollow'>http://vimeo.com/23055596</a>. Jan BenDor Producer QED Video.com
walker101
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:55 p.m.
Maybe you'll be lucky and elect another governor that will get rid of unions altogether?
debrob620
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:39 p.m.
Why's Granholm get 8 years to cause the problems but Snyder gets 4 months to clean it up? Makes no sense to me - I guess some people aren't too open to change!
talker
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.
Sometimes politicians call a situation a dire crisis in order to enact social changes. There's a book entitled The Shock Doctrine that deals with this topic. Some situations are easier to spot than others, such as when Wisconsin Governor Walker gave tax breaks to the wealthiest and cut about the same amount from the salaries of middle class educators and protectors.
say it plain
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:18 p.m.
That's a great book, very well researched and illustrative of how people become convinced of the 'crisis' to which the only reasonable solution is drastic action that somehow always seems to benefit the wealthy and powerful.
Tom Elliott
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:23 p.m.
"javajolt1 at 11:53 AM on April 29, 2011 Jennifer Granholm got EIGHT YEARS to "blow us away". ....and Rick Snyder gets less than 4 months to try to fix the mess?" That is fallacious. There was nothing in the way of launching a recall Granholm effort. annarbor.com is surreptitiously attempting to subvert the recall by posting a petition that can be downloaded.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:47 p.m.
Tom Elliott - Both Governor Granholm and Governor Engler had people start recall petitions. Neither came close. Ms. Heflin - Thank you for removing the link, it would be unfortunate to have people unhappy they signed the wrong form and their signatures were invalid.
Cindy Heflin
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:47 p.m.
The petition was included simply to let people see it. I've removed the link.
jkl47
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:13 p.m.
@DonBee Two weeks ago Benton Harbor got the first new EFM. Rachel Maddow did a story all about it, and he's been on Channel 7 news here in Detroit. He has the power to do ANYTHING he wants, and all the city council and mayor have the authority to do is call a meeting, enter the minutes of a meeting and adjourn a meeting. They can't vote on anything AT the meetings. He can disincorporate the town and then there's no Benton Harbor.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.
Say it plain - As I have indicated, I was not too happy with the changes (see my prior posts in other threads). But, Governor Snyder is being blamed for appointing the EFM in Benton Harbor by national media, and local posters. Neither have done any fact checking.
say it plain
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:11 p.m.
Okay, so let's see if I have this straight...(it can be hard to work through all the 'agenda-ed' statements ;-) The EFM currently in Benton Harbor is the one appointment by Granholm years ago under the old system of more limited EFM powers. That was put in place to get very-broken municipalities fixed, or make some attempt to. Snyder got this new version drawn up, with .... what? dramatically increased powers for the EFM, right? The big question then becomes *why* those deeper powers were needed, and whether alternatives that better preserve the, oh, for lack of a better term, "illusion" of democracy could be employed instead.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4 p.m.
Or you can read the local paper: <a href="http://michiganmessenger.com/36227/granholm-approves-state-takeover-of-benton-harbor-finances" rel='nofollow'>http://michiganmessenger.com/36227/granholm-approves-state-takeover-of-benton-harbor-finances</a>
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:56 p.m.
JKL47 - Read history - The person there as reported by NPR, CBS and ABC was appointed by Governor Granholm. Two weeks ago, he started using the new powers. As usual, the truth is being distorted by people with an agenda.
jns131
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:14 p.m.
I did vote for Snyder to help get rid of the Granholm mess. What people fail to realize is that we hired Snyder to clean up the Granholm mess. Whether it be Snyder or someone else. Michigan is in a sorry state of affairs. I do agree that we should not tax those who do make enough to be taxed under. Retirees and low income are not the ones to go after. It is the rich and the affluent and the businesses that make more in taxes then we do as the lower middle income to low income and retirees. Snyder has fallen short of that goal but in all fairness? It did take 8 years for Granholm to bottom out Michigan and it is going to take a lot of effort on ours to give Snyder a chance. I still can't believe that Ann Arbor wants to recall Snyder simply because Ann Arbor is the one that is going to take a hard hit. Looks like Snyder is living up to his promise of not going after those who funded his campaign but to go after those who really don't make a tax different. Snyder? Time to tax the businesses and the affluent because us bottom feeders have nothing left to give except to leave the state and make a new home. Ready to be the last one to turn out the lights?
Dog Guy
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:41 a.m.
The recall petition is theatre for us rubes in public employees unions. (No, I don't use the possessive for unions.)
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:30 a.m.
In emergency situations, and believe me, MICHIGAN is IN an emergency financial situation, drastic measures need to be taken. If this includes taking over areas with emergency financial managers that are unable to continue services then so be it. This is to avoid these communities from creating a bigger cancer that will eat away at the entire state. This is akin to a bank placing financial controls on a company it has provided considerable loans to, its to protect the bank's own )larger) interests. Michigan has a lot at stake in ensuring the viability of each and every community. United we stand. Good riddance MEA, you've done nothing to improve education in Michigan (check any records on our performance) and instead ensure that the true issues are skirted so you can sap resources for yourselves which could be used for better teacher screening, training, equipment and classroom facilities. Governor Snyder do not let these sirens deter you from the unpleasant task at hand. The ones making the most noise are only protecting their own interests and fifedoms. They are not interested in ensuring viability and the greater good. Michigan needs to balance the books and perform on and at ALL levels and accounts. Deal with it.
thorj97
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:09 a.m.
I hate to be a buzz kill, but 800,000+ voters is a huge hurdle. If you could get every voter in Detroit and Ann Arbor to sign this petition (every single Republican, Democrat, Independent, and Indifferent), you still wouldn't have enough votes. Every... single... voter. Now, imagine trying to get that same number of voters over the entire geographic area of Michigan. Does anyone think about the math before they start committing resources to these efforts? Do the Democrats have a "Plan B"?
Grant
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:54 a.m.
Let's get this party started! Where do I go to sign?
AAMom
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:38 a.m.
The petition posted here is NOT, I repeat NOT, the official petition. DO NOT sign the petition until an official press release is distributed to announce the commencement of the petition drive. I repeat this is NOT the official petition.
snoopdog
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:42 a.m.
This is ridiculous, will never happen and the folks that want to do this are "ridiculous". Good Day
jkl47
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.
It's not ridiculous, it's how government is supposed to work. If the people we elect overreach and take power not authorized in the US Constitution or the Michigan Constitution, the way Snyder is, we have the right to recall him and put in somebody who will follow both Constitutions.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:36 a.m.
Snoopdog - The folks behind this don't care. They want chaos. Both major parties are going to swing for all they are worth. The only losers will be the folks who have to find jobs and pay taxes. Neither party cares about anything but power. The public sector union leadership seems to be on the same power trip. Good luck Michigan
Machine
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:27 a.m.
Snyder won the election by close to 600,000 votes. Do they seriously think they can get enough people to switch positions to make a recall successful? This seems like mainly a symbolic gesture (a futile one at that).
jkl47
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:49 a.m.
Yes, because I know Republicans who voted for him who absolutely HATE him now. It won't be difficult to get enough signatures.
jkl47
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 11:32 p.m.
@Jacob Bodnar Snyder does not have unilateral authority to remove elected officials that WE elected, no matter how much he says he wants to help the state financially. We did have our say when we elected those people. We did not expect someone to come in and decide that he had more power than anyone else has ever had. We've had the EFM law for years, but it was never used to eradicate towns and cities at the governor's will.
joe
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:53 a.m.
Mcgive that is NOT true the amf NEVER had the power the remove LAWFULLY ELECTED people ,,,,get you fact right
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:03 a.m.
The State of Michigan has ALWAYS had that right. local governments have ALWAYS been under state supervision.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:33 a.m.
jkl47 - and to date Governor Snyder has not appointed an EMF. Both of the ones making news were appointed by Governor Granholm. But let's not let the facts get in the way of power politics.
DonBee
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 11:01 p.m.
The petition will succeed. The ballot might. Then will come the election to find an new governor. The interesting question is will the Republican Lawyers file against the language before the petition drive starts or will they wait until the petition drive is almost over. If they wait, and they win the drive will have to start all over again. Given the language on the petition, I don't doubt they can find a judge or two to invalidate the petition. If I were their lawyers, I would wait. Let the Chaos begin, let us all suffer from the political gamesmanship of the two major parties. In 18 months we might have sanity. Good luck Michigan.
thorj97
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:29 p.m.
It's hard to imagine that the recall would actually succeed. I think Bernero only got 1.2 million votes, running a state-wide campaign, with everything that implies (legions of volunteers, campaign donations, voting locations, etc.). Petitioners would have to get 2/3 as many signatures as Bernero got votes by going door-to-door! Not entirely impossible, but to be realistic it seems highly improbable, unless you think Bernero was a really, really incompetent campaigner. Anyone actually have some numbers on the likelihood of this petition succeeding?
L. C. Burgundy
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 9:27 p.m.
The problem with this recall petition (and any vote that might arise from it) is that even people who generally they feel oppose him, they won't vote to remove him absent serious malfeasance. Gray Davis in California was recalled in 2003 after he had concealed the extremely poor state of the state's finances during his 2002 reelection campaign until after he was reelected. They also had a celebrity to run against him. Lynn Frazier, a basically socialist governor in North Dakota, was recalled in 1921 after a major depression began in the agricultural sector that citizens pinned on him for his part on the state industrial board. Gray Davis and Lynn Frazier had each been governors for about 4 years each - not 4 months. We will find out exactly how many MEA/GEO/AFSCME/etc. voters there are in MI through this effort no doubt. 800,000 signatures is not too far shy of what Gray Davis recall organizers needed in California, a state with roughly quadruple the population, which shows just how quixotic this effort is. What will the recall slogan be? "Down with Michigan!" "Up with the stagnant quo!" "You're here to support my pension!"
Cash
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 9:03 p.m.
Hooray! Let the recall begin!!!
Momma G
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 8:53 p.m.
Give me a break! Let's give him at least a year to see if things turn around in this state. I am a senior and I will be affected by him, too, but I still think he is on the right track. Granholm should have been a better manager of our state and you gave her 8 yrs. Give Snyder at least one or two years before you try to "recall" him. If you recall him, you better recall all the senate, too.
jns131
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.
I just can't imagine that happening. This is what Hitler did in 1930 Germany. Essentially he removed the entire government party and became his own government. I really don't see this happening ever. There are fail safes in place to prevent this from ever happening. Michigan has a constitution and so does the United States. Snyder cannot prevail because there are two constitutions that say he can't. Good luck with that one.
jkl47
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 11:53 p.m.
This is why we can't give him a year. I got this from the Recall Snyder Facebook page: Sec. 19. (1) An emergency manager may take 1 or more of the following additional actions with respect to a local government which is in receivership, notwithstanding any charter provision to the contrary: ... (j) Reject, modify, or terminate 1 or more terms and conditions of an existing contract. Among the other powers granted them recently, the EFMs now have the power to disincorporate a township. The Act makes no distinction between "land" or "legal" townships (also called "survey townships" or "Congressional townships"), on the one hand, and "political" townships (akin to a city, village, etc.), on the other - it just says "township". If you own real estate in Michigan (or any Northwest Ordinance state - MI, WI, OH, IN, IL), pull out your deed or mortgage, and read the legal description of the land. You'll see it's described in terms of sections of ranges and TOWNSHIPS. Those are "land" or "legal" townships. The Township of Benton Harbor, which recently made the news as the first area in Michigan where an EFM essentially rendered all of the elected officials powerless (also a new power), is a "political" township. As noted above, the EFMs are now empowered to tear up ANY contract - not just collective bargaining or other employment contracts. Deeds are contracts if consideration is paid for the land (they are quasi-contracts if the deed is gifting land - one of the few quasi-contractual agreements allowed under law). Mortgages are contracts, as well. So, once your deed/mortgage contract is useless and/or terminated, they can seize your land. You can't prove that you own it, because even if you still have the deed/mortgage, the survey plats on which the legal description is based are invalid. So much for an eminent domain claim to at least get paid for the seizure.
braggslaw
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 8:02 p.m.
The real language Anybody on the public dole eating at the public trough who does not want change please vote to remove Rick Snyder.
David Cahill
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 7:24 p.m.
Be sure not to circulate the petition that's available for download! It has a file stamp across it. Plus, to be valid, a petition must be printed on 8 1/2" x 14" paper. Yes, this a quibble, but it's an important quibble.
AAMom
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:42 a.m.
The petition posted here is NOT, I repeat NOT, the official petition. DO NOT sign the petition until an official press release is distributed to announce the commencement of the petition drive. I repeat this is NOT the official petition.
Roadman
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 9:02 p.m.
David: Are you and Sabra endorsing the recall movement of Governor Snyder?
kittybkahn
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.
There will not be any petitions at the rally at commencement tomorrow. I just got the following from Michigan Citizens United: There will not be any petitions at UofM tomorrow. Anything you sign while there, will not be counted. Our petitions have not been printed yet. We are aiming for May 8th to begin signature collection.
macjont
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:41 p.m.
I only wish I could sign more than once!
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11 a.m.
you probably will,
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:37 a.m.
macjont - Sorry this is not Chicago, there is no dead voters society here.
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:04 a.m.
that was too easy moscow, lol.
Moscow On The Huron
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:26 p.m.
If you're a democrat, it's actually expected of you to sign more than once.
xmo
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:07 p.m.
I wonder if ACORN is going to gather the signatures? I suggest they start with the Barclay's Premier League Rosters, rather than NFL rosters on the first few sheets.
jkl47
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 11:40 p.m.
You do realize that ACORN hasn't existed for at least a year now, right?
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:13 p.m.
And you believe that stuff!?
Wolf's Bane
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:58 p.m.
This is great news! Can't wait for the recall to get started! Gov. Jennifer Granholm was a great. We deserve better than Rick.
AAMom
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:43 a.m.
The petition posted here is NOT, I repeat NOT, the official petition. DO NOT sign the petition until an official press release is distributed to announce the commencement of the petition drive. I repeat this is NOT the official petition.
Xraymoo
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:47 p.m.
As a general rule I don't trust politicians of any party because there always seems to be a hidden agenda they need to fulfill in order to get the support from the special interest groups that funded their election campaign. One doesn't seem to be any better than the other, some of them make a few accomplishments that gain the favor of the majority then there is one deal that is unpopular that unraveles the tapestry so-to-speak. The state is in financial dissaray and whatever solutions are proposed will not be liked by all regardless of the person that is in the governors chair. Somewhere there will be some group or individuals that it will be adversely affected and will organize a campaign to stop it . That being said I don't agree with a few of the choices Rick Snyder has made. For example the emergency financial managers. That seems like a way to circumvent the system. The criteria to me is too vague and subjective and if nothing else, my wish would be to have this power revoked.
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:59 a.m.
Synder didn't do this all by himself. It has to pass both houses of duly elected officials of the state.
DonBee
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
Let the chaos begin, claim and counter-claim. Arguments and protests. In 18 months maybe the state will emerge. But in that time, companies, jobs, tax base, and graduates will all depart the state. Good luck Michigan, you will need it.
Top Cat
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:14 p.m.
The defenders of the stagnant quo throw a temper tantrum.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:18 a.m.
@ braggs... oh but there is as true progress cannot happen when the games of incumbent power and politics cloud the real issues. the MEA does nothing improve the awful education marks our state gets, they just ensure they cancontinue to line their pockets
braggslaw
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 8:30 p.m.
not that there is anything wrong with that
FredMax
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.
It is unfortunate that the losers of the election would rather be an anchor on the neccessary and inevitible progress, rather than admit their loss and start helping out.
Mick52
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:38 p.m.
What? Are you implying they should ask not what they can do for their state and ask what their state can do for them? (Just to borrow a phrase from a past politician).
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
jlk47 - It was an open meeting to explain the rules, 200 people attended. No one was paid to be there. There was no limit to who could attend. Probably a 1/3 of the people there were government officials who wanted to understand what the rules were. Another 1/3 were union folks. The last 1/3 were people who were looking for a job as an EFM.
jkl47
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 11:39 p.m.
You must not realize that with the EFM power that Snyder has, that he can get rid of any city or town he wants and corporatize the entire state if he wanted to. There's no stopping him. Why is he training 200 people to fill those roles after only 4 months in office? That's a lot of towns and cities that could be totally eliminated if he wanted to. We HAVE to recall him so that he and all the other Republicans in the other states will realize that they have overreached to an extreme degree.
Moscow On The Huron
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:25 p.m.
They look like the party of "no" right about now. And obstructionists.
macjont
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:49 p.m.
By getting rid of Rick S, we are helping out.
Roadman
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:07 p.m.
This is a quixotic quest and a colassal waste of time by recall organizers. Even assuming you get the recall onto the ballot which is a longshot, the outstate GOP vote will be overwhelmingly for Snyder. I am sure Governor Snyder and the Michigan GOP are rolling in the aisles over this recall farce.
AAMom
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:45 a.m.
Yeah, that's why they had the time changed so Rick's lawyers could attend.
steve h
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:50 a.m.
won't happen
macjont
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:48 p.m.
I want to see how much rolling they will be doing when Rick becomes the Xgov within the year.
Paul
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:04 p.m.
This is just a crying shame. The MEA is spending alot of teachers salaries to have this petition signed just so they can continue to pay Iris Salters here $400K a year pay check.. I want to sign a petition to get her fired. She has screwed our kids education up for years and blamed everyone but herself.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:13 a.m.
BINGO!! We have a winner! At least we know at least 26 individuals have figured out the MEA game. Vote this up!
RayA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:59 p.m.
Lets all realize the wealth and power that we're up against and give this recall effort the committment it deserves. Our children especially depend on it.
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:56 a.m.
Fortunately for my children it has no chance of happening.
Stephen Landes
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
This petition is an opportunity for the do-nothings in this state to "feel" they are doing something. They are do-nothings because they sat back and allowed Governor Granholm and the rest of the Democrats to drive this state into a horrible condition. Now, instead of making positive proposals, they want to "feel good" about themselves by starting a petition. This sounds like 60's dope smoking radicals -- can't figure out what to do, so let's rally and have a concert. Children: it's time to let the adults run the state for a while.
say it plain
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:56 p.m.
That's why I used the quotes around the term, @VISHa, in an attempt to refer to what someone else said. There *is* a movement that calls themselves "tea party" or "tea party republicans", and they represent a wide array of causes and opinions. I was replying to someone who had implied that for these folks it would be a 'paradise' to live in a sort of feudal world run by Corporate Lords and where they were allowed to serve as 'serfs', and I pointed out that it's silly to imagine anyone *wanting* that kind of situation. I offered the idea that people who seem to, and sometimes *actually do* defend the obscene abuses of big global corporations, and who believe in the myth that allowing a lot of the practices we allow in the world of finance and at the interface between government and corporate-entity is the 'best' way, the only truly 'free' way, are being duped. They are. Not because they aren't "superliberal"; that's a totally 'side' issue. Not because they are especially unintelligent either; these are hard ideas to wrap one's head around. But there are definitely many vested interests in people staying ignorant about them. To these interests, the endless back and forth and name-calling ..."liberal" wielded like a weapon (and mixed and morphed with insults of your choice...you know the range if you look at commentary anywhere), variants on "tea party" wielded like a weapon... all a fantastic distraction from the real issues, and convenient emotional riling-up to get people to jump onto one or another bandwagon.
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:01 a.m.
@say it plain: i think we cancel each other out then, because as soon as i hear the blanket statement "teapublican" to represent anyone who isn't super liberal, it makes me even more thrilled that Snyder is the governor and hope that the petition will fail, lol.
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
Oh, Grandpa Stephen, railing against the kids. Wow. And you're their leader?
say it plain
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:33 p.m.
But rhetoric like yours makes me feel like I *must* sign the petition, because instead of sounding reasonable you sound hateful. Instead of seeming to want to solve problems, the silly comments about how somehow Granholm *caused* MI to be in this current state just sounds like weird vengeance. It's exactly the feeling that Snyder is telling some of the people in this state that they have lesser rights than others that would make for a successful recall campaign. It's divisive, it's not adult-like, and I see no use to it.
treetowncartel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:50 p.m.
I agree with you say it plain, I am not in favor of recalls either, or term limits. I am in favor of an educated and involved electorate, and I hate talking politics with anybody who didn't even bother to vote.
Martin Church
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:31 p.m.
We have tried your ways for the last 8 plus years. it has lead to record unemplyment and loss population. we have to rebuild the state and bring people back. Higher taxes on the business has cost us jobs. this has lead to higher taxes on the folks remaining in the state. Now we have a govenor who is doing exactly what he said he would do. You don't like it come up with a better solution then tax the rich. There are no more rich people in the state.
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:01 p.m.
Actually, we never tried it "our way". Jenny had your genius TeaPublicans running/ruining our legislature. You do know how our govt works, don't you? It only took your boy 4 months to blow us away! Hopefully HE will now be blown away.
JSA
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:28 p.m.
This thing is DOA. I realize living around Ann Arbor tends to divorce people from reality. Ann Arbor Democrats may be fond of the MEA but they are despised around the whole state. Given that the MEA is behind this farce it would be surprising that it is anything but a waste of time and money. More we can thank them for given the expense the taxpayer is likely to suffer for this bad joke.
Tom Joad
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:28 p.m.
The 'businessman' meets the brick wall...where do I sign?
mamabear
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:15 p.m.
Can I sign right now? I have 10 people right here that want to sign. Since when has screwing over elderly and low income families been good for an state?
joe
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:40 a.m.
be carefull make sure that you sign the right one there one some recall forms out now and on the net that are not legal,,,you can not sign one from the internet,,,,the ones that are out now are being put out by peolpe who do not want synder recalled,,,if you sign one of them it is useless .
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:53 a.m.
Small business owners like the ones in your neighborhood party store, have been getting screwed for many many years under the SBT and MBT by paying twice for income tax at the state level. Why should greedy pensioners pay NO tax on income?
steve h
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:50 a.m.
you should really read his proposals and not listen to the propaganda being spewed here
Paul
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
Charging someone a 6% tax, like everyone else in the state is not screwing them over, its called equality and the elimination of entitlements. Nobody, again, Nobody should be allowed to have -0- taxes to live somewhere. If your complaining about it, you must have been part of the "proteges" tax free.
say it plain
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:11 p.m.
I feel really torn about this. I mean, I did NOT vote for Snyder. If I had, and I felt that he falsely advertised what he might do if elected, then I might feel okay about signing such a petition. If the appointment of emergency managers can be argued to be a constitutional violation, then too I might support a recall. But even then, wouldn't there be other ways to block him from imposing an unconstitutional practice on the state's municipalities? I just don't like the idea of subjecting fairly (if sneakily! we still have choice even if imho too many voters are easily duped!) elected officials to recalls like this. I'd love real campaign finance reform in this nation though, *that* would be helpful! Perhaps if Snyder couldn't spend his own fortunes and if candidates were *required* to speak more fully about their plans by debating regularly, things might be different. Perhaps if the US Supreme Court hadn't decided that corporations are people too and need unlimited rights to develop PR campaigns to forward their 'causes', we could feel like empowered citizens. So, perhaps recall petitions are all I have left?!
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:21 p.m.
If you don't like state court, you can ask for standing in Federal Court. There are two levels of courts in the US (State and Federal on purpose). Within each there are 3 tiers of courts. So you have 6 judges or sets of judges that get to weigh in on your issues, if you run the full court challenge.
say it plain
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:40 p.m.
Thanks for that info @godsbreath64, I looked up info on Judge Young and its helpful to know what impediments might exist to nonpartisan consideration of the constitutionality of the emergency manager legislation!
godsbreath64
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:03 a.m.
Say it Plain, you have captured what many people I have spoken too feel. In a constitutionally working Michigan government, this would have been argued and laughed hardily out of the MI judiciary and been done & over. But it is being headed -or better, masqueraded -- by the purest of partisans, Bobby Young. In lieu, there is not the forum in Michigan to compel due process of law that was once governing throughout Michigan's rich constitutional heritage. Save time, chagrin and constitutional Michigan. RECALL RICHARD DALE SNYDER.
say it plain
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:28 p.m.
Right, but it can't be that even the people spewing the "teapublican" nonsense truly want that to happen. They're just distracted, the loud hateful bellowing of their media darlings and disinformation paid for by those corporate-'citizens'. We have to get better at lifting the curtains for them, and the back-and-forth elephant-donkey dual isn't helping. I worry that recalls might just heighten the animosities.
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:58 p.m.
Those noble corporations/people will make certain we never have any meaningful reform in any aspect of govt-corporate oversight but they will assure that the unions and the middle class are destroyed. Energy companies will now determine our air and water quality and our natural resource will be theirs to develop. The quality of food will now be determined by Tyson, Archer Daniels Midland and their cronies. TeaPublican paradise in your minimum wage jobs as their serfs.
Jacob Bodnar
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:08 p.m.
Michigan Citizens United have made a grave error. They have failed to read the Michigan Constitution. They certainly have a right to push for this recall, but they fail to realize that everything Snyder has done he has the power to do. Article VII Section 33 of the Michigan constitution clearly states - " Any elected officer of a political subdivision may be removed from office in the manner and for the causes provided by law." End of story, municipalities are simply an easy way for the state to govern, Article VII of the Michigan Constitution lists all of the rights and powers local governments have. And unlike the U.S. Constitution remaining rights are not the power of local governments, but rather the power of the state. The state creates local governments, and has the constitutional right to abolish them or rearrange them as they see fit (Check out Article VII Section 28 for more info on that).
Matt Cooper
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:44 a.m.
Finally, as I stated before, the gvernment is OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE. It is elected by the people and is NOT empowered to do as it wishes all willy-nilly. Nor does government have any right to dictate to the people who elected it how things will get done or not. When was the last time you took an American Government class? Secondly, when the governor can throw out legal and binding union contracts, that sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me. Maybe you enjoy living under Big Brothers thumb, but I don't.
Matt Cooper
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:39 a.m.
1. He instituted a law which would enable him to replace entire school boards, city councils and other local government entities at his whim. These "financial managers" are his storm troopers with which to take control unilaterally. 2. Please tell me where in the US constitution, or the state constitution, it says that we, as citizens, are not allowed to have our own local government. 3. He and his financial managers can now terminate perfectly legal, and locally negotiated, union contracts at his will, thereby usurping the peoples judgements and decisions for his own. 4. Contrary to your opinions, no, this form of governance is not "a function of the governor's office and the state for some time".
Moscow On The Huron
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:22 p.m.
"we do not live in a totalitarian society where Big Brother dictates what we must do, when we must do it and how it must be done and we're not allowed to have a say" Except for light bulbs, toilets, smoking, dodgeball, salt, sugar, soft drinks, etc, etc, etc.
Jacob Bodnar
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:57 p.m.
@Matt Cooper Snyder isn't attempting to dictate what we do, he's attempting to help out financially distressed municipalities, which has been a function of the governor's office and the state for some time, that is not a new power. The people are absolutely allowed to have a say, I think I demonstrated my belief in that by saying Michigan Citizens United has the right to file this petition. But also remember, Snyder was voted into office by an overwhelming majority. He also has the right to govern. But we also must remember, we have no constitutional right to municipalities, they are wholly created by the state and the state has the right to do what they please with them. "No governor gets to unilaterally dictate to the people what they will do and how their government will run. " Absolutely right, please point me to a law or statement that Snyder has made or proposed that is dictating what people do. However, please remember the state does have the right to dictate how the government is run, at least from an organizational standpoint.
Matt Cooper
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.
Unfortunately for you, Jacob, we do not live in a totalitarian society where Big Brother dictates what we must do, when we must do it and how it must be done and we're not allowed to have a say. We have a governor, not a dictator, nor a czar. No governor gets to unilaterally dictate to the people what they will do and how their government will run. The government is, in case you hadn't heard, "of the people, by the people and for the people".
Roadman
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
Thank you. This citation of state constitutional law was needed. Municipalities only have the power that the constitution and legislature gives them. The recall language may be tossed - as many are.
godsbreath64
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
I just came back from what the meeting was announced by this thread. It was held instead 2 1/2 hours prior to that, though. Go figure. Richard Dale Snyder lost forever his legitimacy at law to maintain his office with his signature cottage industry of civli rights violate. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING PRESENTED TO YOU BEFORE MAY 8th. This is per the recall statutes. They will try to invalidate the recall if anyone does. Their M.O. is right up this alley.
Basic Bob
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:42 p.m.
Illegally signed petitions should be accepted by the constitutional government of Michigan?
Moscow On The Huron
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
"Richard Dale Snyder lost forever his legitimacy at law to maintain his office with his signature cottage industry of civli rights violate." What?
Snehal
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:59 p.m.
Come on Michigan, get united for once and recall this Governor who has done nothing so far but to give us financial dictators who wants to act reverse Ronbin Hood, take away from poor and give to the rich! He still can not explain how many "real" jobs would be created by giving tax breaks to the greedy corporates.
Stephen Landes
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:51 p.m.
We did get united. It was called an election.
tom swift jr.
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
"The group had to file the petition in Washtenaw County because this is Snyder's legal county of residence. Snyder lives in Superior Township." That's the shame we all bear here in Washtenaw County... But, that said, let the signatures begin!!!!!!! A great place to sign would be at the rally at the big house tomorrow..!! be there!
steve h
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:47 a.m.
won't happen
a2citizen
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.
Please, just stay off my property.
javajolt1
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
Jennifer Granholm got EIGHT YEARS to "blow us away". ....and Rick Snyder gets less than 4 months to try to fix the mess?
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:18 p.m.
RayA2 - It was the specific provisions advocated by 3 Democrats that removed the requirement to verify income and employment. Once those requirements were gone, it was a short walk to the mortgage bubble. Rep Frank authored the bill and Sen Dodd was the champion in the Senate.
RayA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 9:03 p.m.
NO idea why my last post was deleted so I'll try re-wording it. Donbee - there have been many poor, middle class, and wealthy people defaulting on their mortgages. It wasn't loaning to the poor that caused the housing bubble, it was too easy access to loans for everyone.
javajolt1
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:45 p.m.
That would be.....Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.
DonBee
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:42 p.m.
RayA2 - Take a look at some of the U-Tube House of Representatives on housing in the 2000 to 2008 time period. Who is advocating looser rules for lending in those hearings? Who is berating the bank executives for being too tight with their money and not loaning to low income and in failing neighborhoods?
Matt Cooper
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
The major difference, java, is that unlike Snyder, Granholm didn't try to unilaterally take over the entire state and form her own little person fiefdom.
RayA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
Are you blaming Jennifer Granholm for the housing bubble? I think the Republican's destruction of all regulatory agencies and free market worship in general under W had a lot more to do with the economic situation we're in than anything Governor Granholm did. In fact, Governor Granholm's work on improving education and bringing new industries to the state counteracted the destructive effects of republican greed politics. The republican congress prevented her from doing a lot more. I guess I'm guessing what you blame the former governor for. You didn't provide much detail.
Snehal
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.
He create dmore mess in 4 months than the previous one.
tom swift jr.
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
hey, what's that icon you use? is that you? just curious.
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.
Most of the TeaPublicans didn't have the courage to just tell the truth. They never would have been elected. The voters voted for the affable, Ronnie Reaganesque glad handing smile! When you see the same same thing in State after State it becomes obvious that the cynical and devious strategy was effective. Instead of prosecuting the criminal fraud that took place we will steal the future for any middle class success. Even 56% of the TeaPublicans agree that the highest income people AREN"T Taxed Enough Already. Instead of lifting everyone up we are tearing down the middle class. Noble and Patriotic? NOT!
Mick52
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:29 p.m.
DB, Please explain the criminal fraud you are referring to.
talker
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.
Ronald Reagan's former budget director, David Stockman (who is from Michigan) emphasizes the importance of increasing taxes on the richest corporations and individuals.
McGiver
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:40 a.m.
What is cynical about expecting some fairness in taxation? Suppose I am an owner of a party store and make 50k a year. Under the SBT and MBT, I get to pay income tax to the state twice, while retirees on a pension get NO TAX at all on income from those pensions and most of them were highly paid gov't or union workers. Corporations still pay taxes if they have income. READ the legislation.
Moscow On The Huron
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 10:17 p.m.
Whine, whine, whine.
DonBee
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:35 p.m.
No, Mr. Briegel - It was not Barney Frank, Rep. Frank was the leader in removing income verification requirements and other documentation requirements on mortgages, so that more low income people could participate in the American Dream.
EyeHeartA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:32 p.m.
So now you are saying it was Rick Snyder? That was what the thread was about. Are you off topic? Or slandering Rick?
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:25 p.m.
Eyeheart, do yourself a favor and see Inside Job. Even you will be able to figure that out. It wasn't Barney Frank!
EyeHeartA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 6:11 p.m.
Criminal Fraud? From Wikipedia: Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).
EyeHeartA2
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:49 p.m.
While you are looking up the definition for "criminal fraud", you might want to look up "slander" and see which one applies to you.
DonBee
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:40 p.m.
David - Please tell me any major party politician that tells the truth? It is endemic in the system. For instance what did "Change" mean? We have had a dozen candidates for various offices that offered change as a mantra.
David Briegel
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 5:33 p.m.
Yeah, the "truth" of the failed TeaPublican legislature. You do know how the legislature worked with Jenny? Just Say No. Great phlosophy.
a2citizen
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.
It's been so long I cannot remember what Granholm meant when she said we would be "blown away". But is that the kind of "truth" you like hearing?
trespass
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 3:23 p.m.
Snyder and the whole Republican Party are guilty of fraud. They did not run on the platform they are now pursuing. Cut business taxes and make retirees, the poor and middle class pay for it. Appoint emergency financial dictators to replace our elected officials. Cut education funding. I don't remember Snyder saying any of that in his one debate. I guess that is why there was only one debate. It is a lot easier to hide your true plan if you rely only on paid advertizing.
Mick52
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:26 p.m.
I agree with Awakened, he is doing what he said he would do and that is why I vote for him.
Awakened
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:58 a.m.
HIs web site contained some of the most detailed descriptions of what he planned that I have ever seen. Each issue contained a "white paper" outlining his plan. The economic one was over ten pages. Remember the ads about how his plan was so detailed a politician couldn't understand it. He is doing just what he said he would do. But you would have had to read it to know.
OverTaxed
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:37 a.m.
Obama and the whole Democratic Party are guilty of fraud. They did not run on the platform they are now pursuing. Increase taxes and make retirees, the poor and middle class pay it. Appoint czar dictators to replace our elected officials. Ration medical coverage. I don't remember Obama saying any of that in his debates. I guess that is why there was teleprompters. It is a lot easier to hide your true plan if you rely only on paid advertizing.
evenyoubrutus
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 7:54 p.m.
Whoa! A politician is doing things differently than he said he would on the campaign trail?! This is earth-shattering! This has never happened before! Let's go and recall EVERYBODY who has done this, and we can start with Obama.
javajolt1
Fri, Apr 29, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
I think Barack Obasma ran on a platform to: End US involvement in Iraq in his first few months after taking office Close Guantanamo Bay as soon as he took office ...etc. The point is.....this is true of nearly every candidate.