Snyder recall campaign announces formal partnership with nonprofit Michigan Forward
Leaders of the nonprofit group Michigan Forward and the Committee to Recall Rick Snyder announced today they're officially joining forces as they continue to push for the recall of the first-term Republican governor and try to repeal of one of his most controversial laws.
The recall committee has an estimated 5,000-plus volunteers, many of whom have informally carried petitions for both the recall and repeal campaigns.
They'll now be working in full cooperation with Michigan Forward, which says it has thousands of volunteers of its own who have been working across the state to build support for the repeal of Public Act 4, Michigan's emergency manager law.
“It makes sense for these two forces to team up and forge a strong relationship that we believe will serve the citizens of Michigan well," the committee's leadership team said in a statement.
Michigan Forward wants to place the repeal question on the November 2012 ballot. It will take nearly 162,000 signatures to make that happen.
“The passage of Public Act 4 is one of the most egregious pieces of legislation crafted in Michigan's history," Brandon Jessup, chairman of Michigan Forward and Stand Up for Democracy, said in a written statement. "Having CRRS partnering with us to repeal this legislation turns this from a campaign to a movement.”
The Committee to Recall Rick Snyder says it has distributed more than 240,000 petitions in an effort to recall Snyder and has assisted in the recall campaigns of numerous state lawmakers.
The committee needs to collect about 807,000 valid signatures by Aug. 5 to put the question of recalling Snyder to voters in November. However, it appears the group may not collect enough signatures in time, but it could still make the February 2012 ballot.
Jan BenDor, Washtenaw County captain for the Snyder recall campaign, said she's glad to see the campaign more formally collaborating with Michigan Forward now.
Rick Snyder
BenDor said the group has plans for ramped-up petition signing events in more visible places, including the sides of roads throughout the state.
"It's going to be very difficult to make the November ballot. I think everybody realizes that," BenDor said, acknowledging the recall campaign got off to a slow start. "I've been fully prepared all along to really aim at the February election and I think personally it's a better one. It just happens to coincide with the Republican presidential primary."
Jessup said the repeal campaign has distributed 70,000 petitions to volunteers across Michigan during the first full month of operations.
Michigan Forward calls P.A. 4 a "naked power grab by the Legislature in Lansing." The group complains the law gives state-appointed emergency managers the ability to go into a school district or municipality and seize and sell public assets, strip elected officials of their duties, and dissolve or merge cities, townships and school districts without a popular vote.
The group also complains emergency managers now can break binding contracts and eliminate collective bargaining rights at will, shut down vital public services without a public hearing, and outsource public services and enter into contracts without legislative oversight.
Snyder and other Republican supporters argue the law is needed to allow earlier intervention by the state before local governments in financial trouble reach a crisis level.
Sara Wurfel, a spokeswoman for the governor, told AnnArbor.com last week that Snyder still stands behind his decisions to reform state government.
"With our high unemployment rate, budget deficit and the only state in the union to lose population in the last decade, the governor knew full well the path ahead wasn’t going to be easy or popular," she said. "He remains fully committed to making the tough decisions that ensure Michigan turns the corner and sees brighter, stronger days for all."
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.
Comments
Olan Owen Barnes
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:57 p.m.
seven days to make the deadline for the November ballot.
Mike Fleming
Wed, Sep 7, 2011 : 11:06 p.m.
I don't see you collecting all the signatures & I don't see you raising $1mil to pay for the recall election. FACE IT!! the people have spoken
Fire Rick
Tue, Aug 2, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
@ Bogie It is true we won't make the deadline for the November ballot. However, we collected 300,000 signatures in July and, at that pace, we will have enough by our next deadline to get it on the February ballot. The next deadline is 9/29/2011.
Bogie
Tue, Aug 2, 2011 : 5:10 p.m.
they didn't make it!!!
AA
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 6:43 p.m.
I think he is doing a great job. *****Five Stars*****
Olan Owen Barnes
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.
In February there will be mostly Republicans going to the polls for the primary and very few independents. It is also cold with snow birds gone - not the best time for a election
Greg Gunner
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
I've already signed the recall petition, and today I'll be collecting more signatures at the Lenawee County Fair. We can't get rid of Slick Rick soon enough. If we don't succeed in time for the November ballot, we will continue until the February ballot. And if that doesn't work, we will elect a true government of the people and throw everyone out in the next statewide election. Republicans beware. Now that your anti-poor, anti-elderly, anti-public worker agenda is known it will be more difficult to get votes in future elections. The party of "No" has set the agenda for all future elections. No more votes for republicans. No more welfare checks for the wealthy. No more raids on retirement funds. No more attacks on our hard-working teachers, firefighters, policmen, and other public workers. No more stealing from the poor to feed the greed of the rich. You will regret the day you started our state on this reckless course of reverse socialism or in laymen's terms "Gimme, gimme, gimme!"
Milton Shift
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:12 a.m.
Did I say I was a Democrat? I think both parties are equally bad, they only differ slightly in strategy.
Not from around here
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:49 p.m.
Milton-the wealthiest people in America; Gates, Ellison, Zuckerburg, Soros, Buffet and Walton are die hard Democrats-Ellison, Gates, Zuckerberg and Buffet actively financially supported The Obama Campaign and campaigns by other democrats, Soros has got to be the biggest liberal supporter out their with his PAC and Financial contributions. Most of the Millionaires in Congress are liberal Democrats. They don't want to change the system, they want to profit from it. Look at all the Hollywood billionaires backing the Dem's, doesn't that sound suspicious to you? The Growing gap you're talking about has been happening with a liberal democratic congress and a liberal democrat president. They're the ones stealing from the poor and blaming in on the Republicans, follow the money…
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
DonBee - <a href="http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-page25_actualdistribwithlegend.png" rel='nofollow'>http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-page25_actualdistribwithlegend.png</a> I'm talking income, not just net worth...
DonBee
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:50 p.m.
Mr. Shift - I would guess you don't like math. If we were to take every dollar of everyone of the people on the Forbes 500 list, we could not close the budget gap. And that would be a one time transfer - and they would need welfare too after that. But lets not let the facts get in the way of a major rant here.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:15 p.m.
The richest 1% of Americans could balance every budget in America without any true sacrifice (that is, the type of sacrifice we are accustomed to - giving up food on the table, not yacht money).
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
We have reached the stage where there are more households that take government money than there are households that send money to the government. I'm really not sure what part of "unsustainable" the left doesn't understand. It's really simple: the government cannot create wealth, it can only consume it. Only people, and groups of people working together (these groups are called "corporations," or "evil corporations" to the left) can create wealth. When more wealth is being consumed than created, you have failure. Spending more than what comes in can only help in the very short term. Same with borrowing more. Same with raising taxes. The only ways to solve the problem is to generate more revenue by increasing people's paychecks and increasing the number of people who get paychecks. Remember - the government gets a percentage, which means as the size of paychecks go up, government revenue goes up. Also, when more people get paychecks, government revenue goes up. What government needs to do is get out of the way (no, Moonbats, I don't mean zero regulation, so don't bother responding with your lies). Then, we can get back to work, increase the size of paychecks, and get more people earning paychecks and, in turn, increase government revenue. If you understand this, then I welcome you to the ranks of the Conservatives. If you believe the solution is to borrow more, tax more, spend more, then you are doomed to the life of a Liberal or, even worse, a Progressive. Good Night and Good Grief
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:33 p.m.
Democrats beware. Americans and Michiganders have been exposed to "tax and spend", and we are tired of it. Remember this Greg - business and hard working individuals create tax revenue, government spends it. Most understand this, and that's why Snyder won. Here's a link to government greed: <a href="http://the-classic-liberal.com/americans-broke-government-greed/" rel='nofollow'>http://the-classic-liberal.com/americans-broke-government-greed/</a> Here's a whole lot of links: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=government+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS426US426&q=government+greed" rel='nofollow'>http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=government+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS426US426&q=government+greed</a> Maybe you show some appreciation for a contrary position?
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:28 p.m.
I'm guessing yesterday afternoon's editorial meeting went something like this: "Advertising clicks have been decreasing. It's time for another Snyder recall or dead animal story." Good Night and Good Grief
John B.
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 12:01 a.m.
Bingo! Right on the money, Chuck!
amazinblu
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:29 p.m.
lol exactly.
amazinblu
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:01 p.m.
Seriously? I mean we had 8 years of the biggest heist and union distruction under Granholm and you idiots with nothing better to do want to gather and try to get rid of a governor who is trying to actually get some jobs back in the state, as opposed to what happened under the former governor. A governor Snyder who told you he would get the state on the right path and has the backbone to actually make the tough choices necessary to do so without worry of re-elcetion, like every single thing the Democratic candidates do? Wow! I'm not sure the machine that is doing this is even liberal. I think it is just plain criminal. where the heck were you when thousands of jobs were leaving our state to go to states with better business structures? Why didn't you get thogether and try to impeach the governor then? It's so funny, one just puts the letter D before their name and they can do no wrong. You people are a joke. Give the policies of our elected governor a chance. If they blow, then we can talk about getting rid of him. But no the fear that they may actually improve our state scares you and the fluff you spew about the"poooor pepole's backs". Look, if the ideas work, then everyone will benefit including the poor, geez. can you imagine the Outrage if this happened when Granholm was governor. just because you have the media behind you and you are louder, doesw not mean what you are screaming about is right for everyone.
Not from around here
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:41 p.m.
I agree with you Milton-The Democrats have been bussy transferign more and more wealth to there freinds over the last few years. Top 5 wealthest people in america-Gates, Buffet, Ellison, Walton and Soros-all billionaires, all not paying there fair sare (if at all) of the taxes and all big time Obama/Democrat supporters. Time to wake up, the hippys took over and became mioney grubing facist!
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:55 p.m.
There has been an objective transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. "Giving your money back" is political smokescreen. If you're not rich you're a fool for supporting this.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
Milton - everyone's ratings are miserable. The economic climate is miserable. Hyper partisanship is at an all time high. People like me would like to invest a little more money in my family, people like you want the government to take more of my money so they can invest it. We are really in a civil war.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:12 p.m.
Idiots? Try 75% of Michiganders. Snyder's approval ratings are miserable.
xmo
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:58 p.m.
I wish Jennifer was back running the State so we could have those happy days of endless 15% plus unemployment,High and Unfair Taxes, with businesses and people leaving the the State! Those were the Days!
Engineer
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:52 p.m.
More importantly where can we sign the RECALL OBAMA petition?!The real problem lies in Washington right now. Granholm screwed up Michigan for years and now Rick is trying to fix it. Of course Washington is fighting us every step of the way trying to tell Detroit how to build cars. Obama and his staff would not know a spark plug from an injector. Stay the heii out of our business Washington.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:48 p.m.
The recall petitions are akin to a list of the members of the "Moonbats-R-Us" club. Sometimes the extreme left is fun to watch. I'm looking forward to a more prosperous and financially-healthy Michigan. That's what "moving forward" really is. It will benefit all of us, including the misguided petition-signers. Good Night and Good Grief
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:56 p.m.
Extreme left? Try 75% of Michiganders. Snyder's approval ratings are miserable.
grye
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:33 p.m.
You've upset everyone Rick. Good job. Keep it up. We need change despite all the grumblings. When things have turned around, they'll all be on the bandwagon saying they have supported you from the beginning.
RayA2
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 4:37 p.m.
Slick has certainly not upset the rebublicon leadership. He has followed their playbook to the letter. It starts with the main objective of stealing from the poor and middle class to give to the rich.
Wilford John Presler IV
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.
Snyder is a fascist who purported to be a republican for electoral reasons . The people who still support his agenda are either out of touch with reality or they are uber-rich and want to accumulate more wealth at the expense of the other 99% of the population of our state. Nothing good will come from his tenure ...unless your name happens to be DeVos.
Not from around here
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:37 p.m.
Milton, quick questions? What party has the most Multi Millionairs in Congress? What party does the wealthest person in Cogress belong to? Give up? Democrat! Follow the money....
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:33 p.m.
Milton - business's create tax revenue, government spends it. A pro business agenda is a pro tax agenda. It's called commerce, and if you think it's not the problem, go drive through an industrial park. The one south of the AA airport is just a mediocre example. There are plenty worse. All of those empty buildings are tax revenues lost.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.
Fascists believe in private profit, socialized loss. How does Snyder not fit this label? How has he done anything for the working class, and how has his every move not served the interests of the ruling class?
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
There it is, the "fascist" card. Pretty much invokes Godwin's Law, if you ask me.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.
I for one am neither uber rich, nor out of touch with reality. Your political ideology limits your objectivity.
Goober
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.
I just got on the US Government 2010 Census website and see that the only state that lost population is Michigan - between 2000 and 2010. a .6% loss. All others states had increases. New York went up 2.1%, Illinois went up 3.3%, Ohio rose 1.6%, etc. Wonder what the Forbes magazine article was referring to?
Richard Lake
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:46 a.m.
More organizations working together on recalls every week! Fire Governor Rick Snyder <a href="http://firericksnyder.org/rock-the-recall" rel='nofollow'>http://firericksnyder.org/rock-the-recall</a> <a href="http://firericksnyder.org/" rel='nofollow'>http://firericksnyder.org/</a> <a href="http://firericksnyder.org/read-whats-written" rel='nofollow'>http://firericksnyder.org/read-whats-written</a>
Fire Rick
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:04 a.m.
@ Jim This recall is anything but "sour grapes." Many of the people signing the petitions voted for Snyder the first time. Had they known his true agenda, they never would've voted for him in the first place. @ lumberg48108 Did you even bother to read the article? How is this not news? Michigan Forward teams up with the Committee to Recall Snyder and all of a sudden the recall and repeal efforts gain huge momentum. The recall petitions have been circulating since the end of May. Up until July 20th, there had been almost NO media coverage of the recall. As we near the end of the 90-day window, the media will undoubtedly run stories with updates as many readers are interested in knowing the where the recall stands. Better get used to it . . . just imagine the media attention it will get AFTER enough signatures have been verified!
snapshot
Sun, Jul 31, 2011 : 3:13 a.m.
what's unfair about this recall effort is that unions are able to lobby their members to sign the petition but businesses would be prosecuted for lobbying their employees to sign a similar petition. You see a problem with that Fire Rick?
snapshot
Sun, Jul 31, 2011 : 3:11 a.m.
Hey Fire Rick, Where's the money for your "wants' going to come from?
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:49 p.m.
Sour grapes
Jim
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:27 a.m.
Recalls rarely go through. Sounds like sour grapes to me. The Democratic party in Michigan should face up to the fact that they nominated Bernero, a complete disaster. Had they nominated Dillon or someone else a little more palatable to the Independent voter, then Snyder might not have been elected.
Bogie
Tue, Aug 2, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
They tried, but the uaw and all the govt unions came out in full force to save their own skins. They overplayed their hand, and it has cost dearly.
lumberg48108
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:21 a.m.
Taking an objective view, I don't see how the recall effort is real news anymore unless they get on the ballot by meeting its goals ...until that time it seems like you are basically endorsing the effort with non-news stories like this one annarbor.com covers every single step of the recall effort like its a candidate running for office (and a winning candidate at that) and its perplexing why you do so considering nearly all recall efforts of a governor have failed (miserably) in the past consider covering this objectively - and let us know if/when they meet their targets - until then - what they do and how they do it does not qualify as news anymore
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:11 p.m.
Yes, let's have a media blackout. That would promote democratic values.
Olan Owen Barnes
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:14 a.m.
As far as Michigan losing population:: ":myFOXdetroit.com - Michigan will lose a seat in Congress after being the only state to experience a population drop-off over the past 10 years, according to census data released Tuesday that confirms the depth and persistence of its economic slide. Results of the 2010 headcount show the number of Michigan residents fell by 0.6 percent since 2000. Michigan still ranks eighth nationwide in population, yet lost so much ground to other states that it will have just 14 representatives in Congress starting in 2012, down from 15 this year. That continues a decline since 1970, when the delegation consisted of 19 representatives.:" <a href="http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/michigan-the-only-state-to-lose-population-in-the-2010-census" rel='nofollow'>http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/michigan-the-only-state-to-lose-population-in-the-2010-census</a> "Holland, MI — The 2010 U.S. Census gives a gloomy forecast for Michigan. Michigan is the only state with less people now than in 2000, according to data released Tuesday. Along with the loss of about 60,000 people in the last decade, Michigan will drop from 15 to 14 members of Congress. Michigan topped out at 19 members of Congress in the 1970s, and has lost at least one representative per decade. Michigan's population fell by 0.6 percent between 2000 and 2010, compared to a national increase of 9.7 percent." <a href="http://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/x1682028879/Census-Michigan-loses-population-congressional-seat" rel='nofollow'>http://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/x1682028879/Census-Michigan-loses-population-congressional-seat</a>
Not from around here
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:35 p.m.
Of course Michigan was also the only state to have a Loon like Granholm leading it for the majority of those ten years....
Fire Rick
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:44 a.m.
Fantastic news!! The partnership of Michigan Forward with the Committee to Recall Snyder gives both campaigns a HUGE push toward a positive end goal for both. Keep the faith! We're making history.
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.
You and this recall effort are not "standing up for democracy" you are making a "mockery of democracy" because you did't "get your way". The only benefit this effort has is it will prompt a change in the law with more specific criteria to initiate a recall effort and Snyder will remain governor. Thanks for bringing a flawed "citizen" recourse system to national attention.
Basic Bob
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:05 a.m.
You ARE history.
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:26 a.m.
Sara Wurfel says, "(Michigan is) the only state in the union to lose population in the last decade...) That's a flat out lie. But what would you expect from Rick Snyder's administration. As of Dec. 2010, the top 10 states that are losing population, (according to Forbes magazine): 1) New York 2) Illinois 3) Ohio 4) Nebraska 5) Kansas 6) Iowa 7) Louisiana 8) N. Dakota 9) S. Dakota 10) Mississippi Nevada state officials say the state lost 27,677 people in the last fiscal year. Some 142,000 California residents moved to other states during the fiscal year. But I'm not surprised at the misinformation coming out of the Snyder camp. It's been that way since he started running for governor. The only reasons Snyder has so far given for his actions is "It feels like the right thing to do." I don't know what he's feeling, but it must be his wallet, or maybe it's everyone else's. The only tough decisions I see him making is who to fleece next.
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 1:52 p.m.
Bear, with your qualifying deference and remaining doubts I think we can put the issue to bed with what I believe to be a fact: Due to its "population loss" Michigan is the only state to "lose a "in House of Representatives. I would think that says it all. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong because I'm depending upon memory.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:22 a.m.
Bear was right not to use the census numbers, which are known to be very inaccurate compared with statistical methods.
Hot Sam
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 10:52 a.m.
Bear says... """I am under no delusions that it's "my tax money"; it's not! It belongs to the government. Once it leaves my hands it ain't mine any more.""" And therein lies the problem...
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:09 a.m.
I don't mind paying my taxes. I make a lot less than most of you posting here, I'm thinking. Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's! I am under no delusions that it's "my tax money"; it's not! It belongs to the government. Once it leaves my hands it ain't mine any more. I merely wish to see our country prosperous once more. Prosperity for all, not just the greedy and amoral characters as described in Plato's dialogue. Seems the ones who are the most dishonest get the biggest slice of the pie. I'm tired of this. Like the one's who never fought any wars being the first to send our best out to get killed, while the only killing they make is from war profiteering. I have zero faith in Snyder. I think that if he knows what he's doing, then he isn't doing it for us and in the end, he'll be worse than previous administrations. Dissolving local governments so you can have your way is wrong, it's unamerican and it's immoral. I'd rather have an imperfect system than one that is dictated. And it is my honest opinion that Snyder is creating the very mess he purports to be cleaning up. The census has spoken, there is the margin of error greater than the loss posted to be considered. But Michigan still isn't the only state that is losing population. I've believe shown that much. I left Michigan for Texas 25 years ago because I could not find work. I came back 6 years later, because this is my home. I've stayed here since; it's still my home. I'll defend it when I see it endangered. And all you naysayers that bray about any effort someone puts forward to do the same, as they believe in their hearts, even if it is futile or may not be successful, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Because with that sorry attitude, this country would never have been born.
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:37 a.m.
If I was mistaken, then I will be honest and admit to it. I used the information that I had on hand. I remembered reading about a number of states losing population and I have a difficult time believing that it was only Michigan. I still have my doubts.
average joe
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:46 a.m.
Kind of ironic that bear uses stats from Forbes magazine , a publication geared toward the "filthy rich" who the recall folks say Gov. Snyder is protecting. And, as myopinion correctly points out, the census bureau stats are what the Gov's spokesperson was refering to.
stunhsif
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:14 a.m.
You could not be more wrong, sad that A2.com is asleep at the switch and not calling you out !!!
MyOpinion
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:39 a.m.
Sorry Bear. Michigan was the only state to lose population - based on 2010 Census counts - not a Forbes Magazine guesstimate. Michigan lost ~500,000+ via net-migration. We'd be worse if there wasn't a positive net international migration rate. And, you're right. California has had net outmigration. But, CA is 10% of the US population, so it takes a dustbowl-like migration to have CA look like MI.
Lamont Cranston
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:25 a.m.
So now they will be two time losers. They lost the election and then they will lose the recall vote.
Martin Church
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.
This group should be called put Michigan Behind instead of forward. for the last 8 years these groups have sucked the economy dry and blamed others. Now they want to take the power of the people away from the people and make us a third rate community similar to hatii. what is their solution to getting the local governments to balance budgets without smoke and mirrors or do as Obama has done and only talk about balanceing the budget. wait for an election that they can influence with the money of the unions to keep bad government in power. While the Emergency Manager is not perfect, it puts a large sword over both management and the unions to find a better honest method to balance a budget. Now instead of waiting 18 months or an election cycle to get the two to the table to come to an agreement, both sides must now reach an agreement within days. if these folks believe in democracy then they will and should live with what the Michigan voters chose just has we had to wait 8 years to see the miracle Gramholm would bring. Oh that's right we waited and watched over a million people leave the state including the rich people she wanted to tax.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:45 p.m.
Basic Bob, do you think 75% of Michiganders are leftists? Snyder's approval ratings are miserable.
Basic Bob
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:28 a.m.
@Sara, In 2008, the Detroit City Council requested that the Governor remove the mayor of Detroit, who was popularly elected by the people, twice. Apparently they believed that she had the authority to remove a mayor from office. Fortunately for the people of Detroit, he resigned. If one believes the allegations, the mayor effectively suspended democracy with his corrupt practices. In cases like these, it may be necessary to suspend corrupt or uncooperative officials in order to restore effective elected government, as we now see in Detroit.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:04 a.m.
The EMs are inherently undemocratic. What if Obama decided that Michigan was financially incompetent, and sent down an appointee of his to disband our elected government and take over the state without any accountability to voters? It is even nastier on the one level where democracy is most direct, local government. If elected officials are doing a bad job, voters can recall them or wait for an election to vote them out. With EMs the voters have no leverage, and there is no accountability. This is Big Government and taxation without representation, which is why some on the right are as outraged by this law as those on the left. Are there any other circumstances we should know about, in which it is okay to suspend democracy? If we don't have the right to elect those who tax and govern us, then what other surprises are in store for us?
Basic Bob
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:04 a.m.
I was thinking it should be called Michigan Reverse, or maybe Michigan Left.
SalineMom
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:58 a.m.
Thank-you Rick. Keep it going. Maybe the money and time spent on this useless endevor would best go towards charities.
The Picker
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:55 a.m.
The only thing in need of recall is this groups non-profit status
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:58 a.m.
Think tanks like Michigan Forward and the Mackinac Center for Public Policy are very involved in politics, but nonprofit status is shared by think tanks on the right and the left.
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:33 a.m.
You sure picked the right profile pic.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:40 a.m.
So many people spend their time getting lost in the details, and fail to see the big picture: that the effect of Snyder's policies is a historic redistribution of wealth from those in need to those who need not. This is FACT, and is debated by no one but complete fools.
SalineMom
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
@Milton I would suspect that anyone who would have to give up money from their food budget would not be paying very much in taxes to start with. Maybe if more people were "satisfied" with what they have and not always trying to outdo the Jones, we'd feel better as a society. I think the only think you really oppose are "rich" people. If everyone paid their fair share, we'd all be better off. If the unions stopped the "more, more, more" for me and instead were happy for the job security and "fair wage" which was the root of the unionism movement we'd be in a better place. If the newest Lion didn't just get a millions of dollar contract, maybe tickets would be cheaper this year, or even the $9 beer would be only $8. Everyone has choices to make, some just don't make the popular ones. Anyone who didn't know what Rick was about and voted for him was foolish. He is proceeding as most people thought and we're loving every minute of it. I don't often (well never) quote a Michael Jackson song, but I'm Starting With The Man In The Mirror I'm Asking Him To Change His Ways And No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change
DonBee
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 7:22 p.m.
Mr Shift - You want to talk about fairness.... 1) Is if fair that more than 50 percent of the US household pay no income tax? 2) Is if fair that I pay taxes on my 401K retirement money but someone with a pension does not? 3) Is if fair that someone who is capable of working, but does not want to can draw funds to live on from people who do work hard? 4) Is if fair that I choose to work overtime to get more money from my family and then have to pay more in taxes than someone who chooses to work a 30 hour week? 5) Is it fair that if two people don't get married, but live together for a long period of time, they pay more in taxes than two people who do get married? The details of how taxes are collected matter in this discussion.
Milton Shift
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 5:15 a.m.
I oppose flat taxes. Why should one family have to give up cash from their food budget and another only cash from their yacht budget?
SalineMom
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 : 2:07 a.m.
Yes, I guess all those years of "more, more, more" by our union brothers and sisters, finally lead us to this point. Who is the major sponsor of the recall effort - the MEA. Those rascal teachers who think they shouldn't pay anything for their over-priced union health insurance that MEESA buys from Blue Cross. Brit the AAEA president has nothing better to do that work in this useless effort. Milton...the rich are rich and the rich get richer. History proves this. Politicians don't give a rat about anyone but themselves. How about we start to examine everyone's tax return...lets see who is cheating and hiding...how about the people who deal in the cash economy....no taxes paid there. How about if everyone paid their fair share - eliminate all of the tax code and implement a simple flat tax...would that make everyone happy ? The world is messed up. How about a special tax on professional athletes..they probably don't pay their fair share either, but they win games...so who cares...on and on it goes.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:43 p.m.
They set up elsewhere because labor costs were lower elsewhere, meaning more profit. A lot of companies appear unprofitable because the profits aren't paid as dividends, but rather in the form of exorbitant executive salaries - it really is about enriching the tiniest upper layer. There's an old saying, that ruling an empire is like holding an egg - hold it too tight and it will explode, hold it too loose and it will slip through your fingers. The Democrats are concerned about the former, the Republicans the latter, but in the end, they are both big business parties whose interests are diametrically opposed to ours.
Not from around here
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:33 p.m.
Milton, interesting you should bring up Buffet. Of the top 5 wealthest people in this country; Warren Buffet is the only one who, by admittion, paided any income tax. He paided $10 Mill on $2 Bill of income, about .033%. Now, who did Warren Buffet activally suport for President-Obama. Follow the money liberal democrats, it your own party who is screwwing over the working man to line there own pockets.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:28 p.m.
Are you serious? Maybe, just maybe if the UAW spent more time getting the liberal elite to drive American cars as opposed to "barganing" for unsustainable compensation in the name of equality, maybe we would have those jobs. Do you know how many other car companies have set up shop in the US and not in Michigan? Why did that happen? Milton - I relocated here in 1991. Michigan was the place to be.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:32 p.m.
Because of all the business and income tax cuts of the last 30 years, we now have fewer jobs and the average American is less prosperous. Explain that.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:12 p.m.
I probably pay more taxes than Soros as well, but as much as that angers me, it isn't the long term solution. Yes, the tax burden of all individuals will change. Mine too. I'll be paying more, and trust me, I want to pay less. But unlike you, I believe the reasoning. Business creates tax revenue, Government consumes it. An agenda for business growth is an agenda for tax generation. Michigan had it and lost it. How did that happen?
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:42 p.m.
You are wrong on taxation; Warren Buffet's secretary pays a higher tax rate than Warren Buffet himself. But that's another argument. You still didn't address mine. How are Snyder's policies not effectively transferring wealth from the poor to the rich?
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:24 p.m.
Milton - I would argue your "fact". On a federal level, the top 1% pay 38% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% pay nothing. That's redistribution on the grandest scheme. The problem is people like you want MORE. Taxing pensions is nothing new. As noted, I will pay tax on my IRA and 401k when I am elderly and "poor".
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 7:24 a.m.
It seems no one is able to debate the FACT that Snyder's policies effectively amount to redistribution of wealth...
lumberg48108
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:23 a.m.
how is taking my heard earned money and giving it to welfare receipients any different of redistribution of wealth? its not cause poor people need it more?
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.
Saline Mom, don't be so lazy. Do your own research. Apparently you don't care about the facts. He's your man, you support him & you won't let anything like facts get in the way of your emotional attachment. I'd like you to show some facts that say he isn't merely redistributing the wealth and working to destroy the middle class through union busting tactics and the usurping of locally elected officials, breaking contracts and awarding contracts with no bid or vote. We cannot help it if you are not paying attention or are content to remain willfully ignorant.
Maxwell
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
Well gee - I guess Milton skipped a step by not listing the budget or numerous other pieces of legislation he has signed into law- so SalineMom - which piece of legislation signed by Mr Snyder have you not read?
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
If you've been paying any attention to the news, you'd notice that the tax cuts are for businesses and the tax increases are on the retired and poor (pension tax, earned income credit), and that all the spending cuts affect those attending public schools, those without money for exorbitant tuition, and the long term unemployed (Michigan cut unemployment from 26 to 20 weeks).
SalineMom
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1 a.m.
So, putting FACT in capital letters makes it so ? Please give us the FACTs. Show us you are not the fool.
snoopdog
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:39 a.m.
Good luck you left wingnuts, you will most certainly need it !! I am certain it will be Good Night and No Luck in this endeavor Good Day
RayA2
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:38 a.m.
This is good news. The joint effort will make Slick's departure all that more certain. We can't get rid of this snake oil salesman fast enough. By kicking Slick back into his corporate CEO old boys club, we can: - recover some of the education funding Slick gave to his wealthy constituency, - reverse the tyranical changes in the emergency financial manager law, - avoid the giveaway of parks and other public resources in the name of privatization to Slick's wealthy constiuency, - avoid the undermining of critical environmental protections under the false cover of being business friendly, and - prevent the total idiocy of easing of immigration restrictions while our unemployment rate is the highest of any state,
RayA2
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:34 p.m.
1bit - you make a great case for firing Slick now rather than later. Bob - tthat hurt.
Basic Bob
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:02 a.m.
"prevent the total idiocy of easing of immigration restrictions" Stop it, it makes you sound like a Republican.
Mike
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:49 a.m.
You can have my signature to recall Granholm..............
1bit
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:28 a.m.
Nonsense - the recall effort will do NONE of the above. If it were successful, you would have 3-4 months of Gov. Calley calling the shots. It would be even "worse" by your standards. Even if by some miracle, Gov. Snyder was recalled and a Democrat governor was elected next Februrary - all that would happen is a reconstituted legislative logjam that we already lived with for the past several years. I don't mind people voicing their concerns and the recall is certainly within the rights of the people. On the other hand, it is dishonest to say that it will have any meaningful effect to reverse or change already enacted policies. It would have been better to save the money, angst, and discontent for the 2012 election IMHO.
Max Maximus
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:36 a.m.
"Here ye, here ye..........calling all unemployed liberals to join us on an insane endeavor". Once again, the chances of getting the required signatures is akin to being struck by lightning. And the odds of then getting the State of Michigan voters to then vote for it are like getting struck twice. But maybe this gives certain folks a little something to do while Rick tries to find you good, stable and honorable employment.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:09 p.m.
Unemployed liberals? Try 75% of Michiganders. Snyder's approval ratings are miserable.
Michigoose
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:47 a.m.
Don't worry, Max. It's true that a petition drive without big money behind it relies on volunteers who donate what time and money they can. But with an increase in unemployment, a raid of education money which is closing schools and raising college tuition around the state, the taxing of pensions, and the taxation without representation that is going on under emergency managers, this petition drive does not suffer a lack of signers. Unfortunately it is hard for canvassers and signers to find one another, so many people want to sign who can't. But since the petition needs far fewer signatures than the numbers of people who like Snyder's performance (under 40% approval rating), it's hardly "akin to being struck by lightning."
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:38 a.m.
I've seen mostly gainfully employed people who care about their state working as volunteers. Typical low brow attack. Instead of dealing with the issue, you attack the person(s) involved. Nice. I wonder what kind of ''honorable'' employment you might be thinking of.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:36 a.m.
From Dr. Rockso - "What else would Sara Wurfel say Rick's paying her with the money hes stolen from the poor and the elderly. As far as tough decisions go I don't think Rick has made one decision that hits him or his friends in the pocket book. In fact for ever dollar Rick steals from the poor and elderly he puts about a buck and a half in the pockets of his buddies" "Steals from the poor and elderly"? What happens when my 401k and IRA matures? Yeap, the government will steal tax money from me, and I will be elderly when that happens. Would you please lobby your government represenatives on my behalf?? Maybe a union can help? I can't believe that government would steal money that I have saved for retirement and put it into their pockets...... Seriously now, pensions are taxed in many other states. It is not new nor is it unique. Given your left wing desire for all of us to put our paychecks into a communal pot and split it up equally, I can see how this is upsetting to you.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.
"I can't understand the "tax the rich" idea." Nay to progressive taxation. "Every person with an income should pony up more, with a lesser burden on the poor folks." Yay to progressive taxation. ...what?
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 11:40 a.m.
Bear - I understand your point. My point was that the "outrage" over taxing pensions is not new and doesn't warrant surprise or even "outrage". Of course many will play that card to their political advantage, but that's another topic. The bottom line is that our tax base (business) has been eroded, and our tax consumption (government) has not adjusted to it. Something has to give, and candidly, I'd like to keep more (only more, not all) of the money I earn.
Mick52
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4 a.m.
Bear, how many of those corporations making record profits are in Michigan? Not many. We can't even get auto manufacturers in Michigan. From the article in Sunday's paper, it appears the governor has not done enough. Much more has to be done to attract business and jobs into Michigan. In re to raising taxes on the wealthy. That has been tried and backfired on some states that tried it, the wealthy folks started to relocate: <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html" rel='nofollow'>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html</a> <a href="http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20100808/REG/308089976" rel='nofollow'>http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20100808/REG/308089976</a> It seems to me that Michigan's income tax should be raised for everyone. If you look at state income tax rates, Michigan's across the board 4.35% ranks with the lowest in the nation, applied to your federal adjusted income. I can't understand the "tax the rich" idea. We are all in this mess together and we should all be responsible for fixing it. Every person with an income should pony up more, with a lesser burden on the poor folks. If you have an alternate plan, lets hear it.
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:33 a.m.
oh, and hey, Mike, I thought you conservatives call democrats the 'tax & spend' crowd. I don't know if you realize this or not, but our massive debt was created by a REPUBLICAN president. Actually, the last 3 republican presidents have all pushed up the national debt like crazy! And the last time we had a balanced budget was under a president you right wingers HATE! The democrats called him 'republican light'. So, I shouldn't probably bother reading the rest of your post since you are so off base with that statement.... wait... oh, too late. What a bunch of nonsense. The wealthy corporate stockholders in this country are paying the lowest taxes since the 50's and you still whine that it is too much. You're probably the same guy who complains when our bridges are falling apart and our roads have potholes big enough to fit an M1-abrams in it. When you look at the 'effective tax rate' (i.e. the actual amount that corporations pay, you are looking at 15 to 20%. Wow! That's less than a lot of people pay on their personal income tax! And I don't know what rock you've been living under, but major corporations in this country have been making record profits this year, so I don't see where you come up with this poor rich folk gots no money schtick. " The rich don't have enough money to bail us out." That's hilarious! Tell that to the war profiteers, and those who got paid and left everybody else screwed on wall st. and in the mortgage industry! Your argument is insane! I want to see what kind of kool-aid YOU'VE been drinking, (to trot out a tired old conservative phrase that should've been put to bed decades ago.) pure garbage.
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:17 a.m.
Just because other states do it doesn't justify it here. That's a bad argument. Michigan is also the first english speaking government in history to abolish the death penalty when a man was wrongly executed. By your argument, we should be like Texas and execute left & right and not worry about the wrongly convicted. (Which btw, is exactly what Texas does, having been shown to have executed innocent people on a few occasions.) "But Mom, all the other kids are doing it!" Just because it's not 'new' or 'unique' doesn't make it right. But "I can see how this is upsetting to you," given your right wing proclivity to exploiting people for personal gain and of the absence of moral in your actions and argument.
Mike
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:47 a.m.
You didn't pay taxes on your 401K with the knowledge that you would pay them on the money when you retire. Most pensions are contributed to by your employers. If you are a former government employee of some kind that would mean people like me. The same people who will continue to pay taxes so you could have a pension paid for with taxes. You have to make a certain amount of money in your retirement before you will be asked to pay taxes, not unreasonable considering many of those who complain are from the tax and spend crowd that have helped drive up our national debt. The same ones who cry out for more taxes on the rich. Too bad the rich don't have enough money to bail us out so that means we're all going to have to pay more. Don't like it? then vote for a fiscal conservative next time you vote or be quiet and pay more taxes> There are actually people fighting for less taxes and those fighting for more, pick a side and vote accordingly because we're broke folks.
Huron 74
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:58 p.m.
Whenever things change, some people get unhappy. For example: some people don't like business and growth. It interrupts their yoga.
DonBee
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.
Mr Shift - I love your name, since you advocate the shift of money from people who work for it to people who may not. From the private sector to the public sector. The Earned Income Credit was only put in place a few years ago, the state could afford it then, they cannot now. Taxes on large corporations went up, not down. Small businesses - think plumbers and electricians - stopped being double taxed (talk about fair, is it fair to pay twice if you are trying to start a business?). More than $7.5 billion dollars in pension money was going to people under the age of 65 with zero in the way of taxes, on the other hand those who were over 65 and getting paid from a 401K - had to pay taxes (is it fair to tax one form of retirement income and not another, is it fair to earn wages and pay taxes and earn a pension at age 56 and only tax the person who actually is working?) Your idea of "FAIR" has some funny quirks and your dislike of details indicates you probably have not read some of the bills and done real analysis of what has happened. If you want a discussion of the laws and their impact, game on.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:38 p.m.
<a href="http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-page25_actualdistribwithlegend.png" rel='nofollow'>http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-page25_actualdistribwithlegend.png</a> I don't think as many people are described by "lazy" or "stupid" or whatever else vitriol is leveled at the working class.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:34 p.m.
Opportunity, not outcomes, right? So if we all have the opportunity to win the lottery, and all face poverty and death if we do not, it's fair, right? Next you'll say how you just need to work harder... and harder... and people will believe you... until they're back to the sweatshops of the early 20th century and realize it was purely deception.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:22 p.m.
Milton - the devil is in the details. What is fair Milton is the opportunity for all individuals to earn success, and that's where we are headed.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:52 p.m.
Mike, you put aside objective realities and focus narrowly on details, such as the nature of various taxes, and very specific ones, ignoring the big picture. There has been a massive, unprecedented, historic transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. This is a FACT. The result of this has been the decline of nutrition among the poor, loss of access to health care, resulting in DEATH and misery. This is FACT. Your selective interpretation of facts leads you to consider only federal income taxes, which are vaguely progressive (the richest investors dodge them entirely). You fail to consider other taxes such as payroll tax (only income up to 100,000 is subject to this), sales tax (primarily shouldered by the poor's survival expenses), state income taxes (which are not progressive in the least), along with countless other fees (driver's licenses, registration etc.?) Great wealth always comes at great cost - that of peace and equality. This is FACT, and I stand by my earlier statement.
Mike K
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:19 p.m.
Milton writes, "Some don't like peace and equality. It interrupts their greed" Candidly Milton, that is the most baseless comment posted in this thread. It doesn't make one bit of sense. It is obvious you are trying to be emotional and inflammatory, but to what end? Small business are no longer double taxed. Why is that so awful? Pensions are being taxed as they are in most states. How is that revolutionary? School budgets are cut because our tax base shrank. Why does that NOT make sense? Obama's "stimulus" package more or less went to individual states where they used the funds to patch budget holes. Now that that money is gone, and the holes are still there. We had a chance to build productive assets, and now it's gone, the problems are still there and debt has increased yet again. I know it makes you feel good about taxing the rich, but there aren't enough rich out there to cover the problem. Plus, the top 1% pay 38% of all federal income taxes. We are already taxing the rich. When will your thurst for their money end?
grye
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:31 p.m.
I like it! To these people, Snyder burned the toast the first time he made breakfast. They want a divorce instead of working to make things better for the State.
godsbreath64
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:47 a.m.
Great comment, Milton. How do you explain to those kind that the US Constitution wasn't supposed to change without being violated? Thanks again.
Milton Shift
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:38 a.m.
Some don't like peace and equality. It interrupts their greed.
Monica R-W
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:48 p.m.
Another fair and accurate story Ryan to both sides of this debate. Thanks for your articles and follow up on this!
DonBee
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:46 p.m.
One radical Democratic Party Group joining another Democratic Party Group. No surprise here.
DonBee
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
Bear - Read my posts in other threads. I am not in favor of what Scott Walker did, nor what happened in Ohio. I think we got a moderate in comparison. As to the things you don't like that Governor Snyder has done, I warned people that Governor Snyder would make everyone unhappy if he was going to get the state back on the rails, he has and he has. Take a step back and look at the whole picture. Jobs are up (The new governor may have had nothing to do with it, but jobs are up). The state has for the first time in years put money in the pension funds for state workers (granted at that rate we did it, it will take 80 years to fully fund it). Michigan has a 3.4 billion dollar unemployment loan to repay (starting next year, because we got a 1 year delay on payments - but not interest). Michigan funded the 700 million dollars in new Medicaid costs that were in the Health Care Reform Bill and unfunded. The corporate tax code is much simpler, making it much easier to know what your tax bill will be and to decide on new rates. Much of corporate tax welfare (loopholes, grants and deductions are gone), as time moves forward and the Granholm gifts expire, the taxes collected will go up. Ford, GM, Meijer and other large businesses will pay MORE taxes in 2011 than they did in 2010 - on the same revenue and because revenue is up - even more. $7.5 billion in pension funds going to people under the age of 65 are being taxed. This is the richest segment of the "retirees". Many of them have second careers. Yes, the Emergency Manager bill is poorly written for reasons to put an emergency manager in place, but the Governor seems to be very careful in putting them in place - having refused in almost every case so far. He has not put "right to work" rules in place. He has not taken the rights to negotiate away (though we no longer have an infinite time for arbitration to go on).
Bear
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:18 a.m.
check what the republicans are doing in wisconsin and then start calling the kettle black.
DonBee
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:39 a.m.
Nope RayA2 - I looked up the bios of the people who are mentioned in the article as the leaders. Both are associated with the Democratic party. Obviously this is party politics at it Michigan Best!
RayA2
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:43 a.m.
Donbee, you are clearly aiming your comments at the Faux Noise reactionary republicon group.
Dr. Rockso
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:44 p.m.
What else would Sara Wurfel say Rick's paying her with the money hes stolen from the poor and the elderly. As far as tough decisions go I don't think Rick has made one decision that hits him or his friends in the pocket book. In fact for ever dollar Rick steals from the poor and elderly he puts about a buck and a half in the pockets of his buddies.