Otto Mobeal

Tue, Feb 15, 2011 : 2:12 a.m.

The city needs to stop with the taxes and get with correcting the problem. The city probably should file for bankruptcy. They have set up an impossible Ponzi system called the city pension. Like they have had to do in private industry: reduce pension payments, eliminate supplemental payments (bridge between early retirement and social security), eliminate retiree health insurance (already covered by medicare), freeze the current pensions, and move to defined contribution pensions.

Joel A. Levitt

Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 2:19 p.m.

A 1% sales tax increase would be hardly noticed by the wealthy, and it would be a real blow to the poor, hardly noticed by the well employed and a real blow to those working for minimum wages or already unemployed. Creating a graduated state income tax would be no more complicated than permitting local sales taxes, and it could provide all the revenue needed. Here is a sample of referendum language that would solve many of our problems. WHEREAS, excise taxes impose the greatest burden on those who can least afford to pay them, they being often those who have profited least from the advantages provided by our state, and sin taxes don't work. WHEREAS, property taxes are vestigial artifacts of former times when property was the best measure of wealth, and they are least effective at raising public funds during hard times when many become unemployed. WHEREAS, present taxes fail to recognize that certain individual expenses are required if the income earner is to be able to work. WHEREAS, present business taxes bear so heavily on new and struggling businesses that they cause them to discharge productive employees and even cause them to fail. Be it resolved that the Michigan Constitution will be amended to: 1. eliminate all current state and local taxes; 2. permit the imposition of a graduated income tax, and 3. establish a statewide graduated tax on the net income of all Michigan businesses and residents, net income being income in excess of those amounts needed to earn income, which in the case of income earning individuals includes reasonable amounts needed to provide adequate shelter, adequate food, adequate clothing, medical care and education for the income earner and the income earner's dependents.

rusty shackelford

Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.

I don't think a 0.5% county wide sales tax (the only specific proposal I could identify in the article) would be that big a deal. That is fifty cents on every hundred dollar purchase, or 1 cent on every two dollar purchase. Exempt groceries and clothing if there are concerns about the poor. The other option--an income tax--is much more regressive. If there's a choice, might as well go with taxing consumption rather than taxing work. I wouldn't support a tax higher than .5%, though.

Tex Treeder

Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 1:53 a.m.

Mayor and council members: No local income tax, no local sales tax. Make do with less. We, the taxpayers, have to. Cities, counties, states and the country need to do the same. On the other hand, I will be one of thousands actively campaigning to end your political career should you pursue this idea. Sincerely, A voting citizen

Huron74

Mon, Feb 14, 2011 : 12:20 a.m.

As someone who owns commercial property immediately outside the corporate boundaries of AA I wish Rep. Irwin and the pro-sales tax folks every success with their agenda. I can't win a fight with the tax & spend crowd AA's electorate sends to Lansing or city council but I can profit from its blunders.

Tony Livingston

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 10:55 p.m.

For some reason, Hieftje will not support and income tax to charge the people that actually use the city and all of the benefits. He is also completely unwilling to address the early retirement provisions for city employees that are bankrupting the city. Until then, I would fight this all of the way.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 9:42 p.m.

Lower city pay rates would allow more employees to be hired, improving service, and reducing unemployment Win-win. Now, that is value.

Mick52

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 9:33 p.m.

I have no problem with this if it's a 1 or 2% increase. Many states allow counties and cities the ability to apply a local addition to sales taxes. I would like to see this on the ballot two times. Statewide and on a local ballot for any community that wanted to apply it. It will be fine with people living from about Dundee and south from there, who can take a quick trip to Toledo or Sylvania. But in reality travel to an area to save 1 or 2% may spend more just to get there, unless they are buying high ticket items. As the article notes, state revenue sharing is down and is property tax revenues. You can only cut so much while you still have to provide sufficient services. Some states have user fees that require you to pay the state the difference in sales tax if you purchase an item in a state with no or a lower sales tax and bring it back to your state to use. Yuck to that, but I could survive a small increase in the sales tax, as long as spending is sound. I think that is what most of us disagree on, what is proper spending by our state and local govts. A service consider essential to some of us may not be to others. I think we should be thinking more about "functional" instead of "aesthetic" in planning and tone down the glamor in order to just get the job done.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 9:26 p.m.

"...The decision would be up to the voters, more cuts or pay more in taxes...." Good management would render such a referendum unneeded. Ann Arbor has let go of many good workers in order to retain fewer highler paid workers. Are the votors getting $107,000 of value from the average city worker? Or is it time to move city compensation to levels much closer to national averages? And much closer to the average of non-publicly employed city residents? Public compensation levels are approximately twice private levels. Reducing city wages to national levels would save ~$35 million per year. Many believe it's time to get more value from public employees.

bunnyabbot

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 9:07 p.m.

city or county sales tax? NO NO NO NO x infinety NO NEW taxes, NO INCREASED taxes perhaps the carbon monoxide fumes that have closed city hall on a numbr of occasions are causing oxygen deprivation to the mayor and city counsels brains. As a downtown shop owner everyone complains about parking, out of towners are shocked by the parking fees. charge them a sales tax on top of it and instead of shopping in ann arbor they will purchase everything just outside of city limits or county limits. I can't believe these people keep getting voted in again. imagine, 5% extra for a pair of socks, a two by four, a lawn mower and all you have to do to avoid it is drive 20mins out of your way to the next meijer or the next lowes, get all of your shopping done to avoid the republic of a2 tax.

Cash

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 8:56 p.m.

Mr Dalton, Three times in this post you say A2 hasn't put a tax increase on the ballot or hasn't asked for a tax increase. I think most of us know why. Polls continue to say it would be soundly defeated. No entity puts a vote out when the polls tell you it is going down! Let's not turn this isn't the kind-hearted city government didn't put it on the ballot because they just don't want more revenue. That's a little over the edge.

Tim Darton

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 8:44 p.m.

Cash: Unbelievable that you would say that! You and other posters here keep putting up the same myths about the PD & Courts building or public art, or the parking structure, the same wrong myths. So how about this one: In this unprecedented financial crisis cities all over the state have made much deeper cuts into basic services than A2 has and many have raised taxes. A2 has not even asked for a tax increase, still taking only 27% of the property tax stream, they still have a top bond rating and 40% of the land is non taxable. City govt. also has to support a huge park system the voters insist on. In this very story they highlight how the city is getting almost $5 million less than it used to in revenue sharing, they also lost 5% of revenue when the UM took over Pfizer, etc. But costs for employee's keep going up. (health care) I am not against that. People should be paid for their work but they still have to be paid. But the city still has not put a tax increase on the ballot. In the story the mayor, who is against an income tax, is simply saying IF the state keeps taking $$$ give the locals some options to ask the voters for more $$. The decision would be up to the voters, more cuts or pay more in taxes. Sounds like a fair thing to ask. I for one understand you can't get something for nothing and would vote for a tax increase. Bottom line A2 keeps doing better than other places and they haven't raised taxes.

Cash

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.

Mr Dalton, The city is doing a fabulous job and never spent a dime on anything frivolous, etc..... You post the same things over and over again the past two days. The same line that the city administration speaks....almost word for word. But sorry, it's not believable, no matter who writes the script.

Tim Darton

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:56 p.m.

Cash: What I am saying is that very little general fund money was spent that was not being spent before. The city is saving $700,000-800,000 by not having to pay rent to the county and by being able to move other units into the old building when the police move out. Part of the project goes remove asbestos and make the lower level of city hall capable of holding whole departments so the city can stop renting across the street. By putting the police in with the courts on the same foundation (saved $ VS a separate PD station) they are able to provide the station the PD as needed for 30-40 years. The PD really needed a new building, anyone who toured the old one knows this. Add the money saved in rents to what the DDA is paying and you have almost all of the bond payment. ., Plus, the city had something like $12 million to put down, money that had been saved since the 1990's. The furnishings? If you caught the story the court ended up buying mostly used furniture. That is not a fancy building. All brick? That would have been expensive. And it is NOT A NEW CITY HALL. The administration, council, finance, water & sewer, etc. will all be in the old building. Bottom line, courts have specific security needs, under the building parking for the judges, separate elevators, etc and if possible the same for prisoner transport, separation of perpetrator and victims, etc. Those requirements all increased in the last 10 with crimes against judges in other places. The city had a task force that looked at 12 existing buildings and none would work.

G. Orwell

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:49 p.m.

Our federal government should do the following and return the savings (our money) back to the states. For starters: 1. Stop the illegal wars and reduce the military bases around the world by 80-90%. 2. End the Federal Reserve that is financially enslaving us and default on the fraudulent debt created out of thin air. 3. Reduce the size of the federal government by 50% or more. Local and state governments are shrinking while the federal government grows and grows and grows. Definitely get rid of the Department of Homeland Security, TSA and the Department of Education that is dumbing down and indoctrinating our kids. Our educational system has gone down hill ever since the feds took over education. 4. Take back all the money given to the banks, including foreign banks, and demand that they pay 20-30% (not 0%) interest on the loans. Just as credit card companies charge it customers. 5. Stop corporate welfare.

Mike

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:34 p.m.

We pay to park, pay for signs, pay state sales tax, pay state income tax, pay federal income tax, pay social security tax, pay medicare tax, license plate fees, drivers licenses, professional licenses for everything imaginable, permits for everything under the sun, taxes on our cell phones, taxes on our landlines, taxes on our gasoline, etc..... I think you all get the picture. The problem we have and continue to have is mismanagement of all of the monies collected by politicians who don't have the business acumen to run a popcorn stand (which you would need a permit for). The answer is always more taxes, I wish I could go to my neighbors house and ask them to pay for some of my bills. In essence that is what politicians do. NO MORE TAXES!

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:32 p.m.

alphaalpha wrote: "Nope. Not bogus; taken from AnnArbor.com articles, city budget documents, etc. Dialog? You could present numbers; instead, we get denigration? Is it easier to criticise others than to present numbers? Is it understandable you'd rather not discuss numbers by sharing numbers?" It is not denigration to call it what it is. To quote the ex-half-term governor of a national park, "You can't put lipstick on a pig." Other numbers? I don't have 'em. I reasonable discussion along these lines would undertake a job-to-job analysis. As Cash pointed out so succinctly in a post above: add 100 short order cooks + 2 retail clerks and divide by 102 = average salary add 50 firefighters+ 52 accountants and divide by 102 = average salary So, once again, there is a factual basis for your "average compensation" but it tells us absolutely nothing. It does not tell us if the garbage men are over- or under-compensated, nor the police, nor the secretaries, nor the department heads, nor the city manager, nor the part-time lifeguards at the pools. Think city employees are over compensated? Then make the case on job-by-job basis. Believe it or not, were you to do that, you might convince even me. Seriously! Otherwise, you're spewing meaningless numbers and employing faulty logic. And if that's all you have, one must conclude there is no case to be made. Oh, BTW, glad to uncover that you think people who have served our nation are "on the dole". As I've said before, tells us much about who you are. Good Night and Good Luck

EyeHeartA2

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:26 p.m.

"Should Michigan cities and counties have the option of a local sales tax? Some think so" .....and some people thought Richrod deserved another year........I'm just sayin'.

Richard C

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.

While I recognize having a uniform taxing structure across the state is a good thing - that also depends on having a responsible and prudent state government too, which we don't have (and it's only gotten worse now that we have a Single Party State, "Like in Communist Russia".) As long as the state retains control of tax revenues, and as long as the state remains irresponsible - locally controlled taxes remain what we need.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.

Some cook; some stir the pot.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.

"My "dialogue" with alphaalpha is merely an effort to show open-minded readers that his numbers and logic are bogus and should be understood as such." Nope. Not bogus; taken from AnnArbor.com articles, city budget documents, etc. Dialog? You could present numbers; instead, we get denigration? Is it easier to criticise others than to present numbers? Is it understandable you'd rather not discuss numbers by sharing numbers? Is it understandable one on the public dole wishes to remain there?

julieswhimsies

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:51 p.m.

In my opinion, this is a bad idea. I try to shop locally as much as possible. This can be expensive enough. For items with free shipping it is usually cheaper to shop online. However, I do like to support local businesses. Add a sales tax to already expensive local shops, and people will go elsewhere or buy online.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:51 p.m.

sbbuilder wrote: "Sorry, dude. You're on the losing end of this argument. Those numbers are not 'bogus', as you are won't to school us. It's crystal clear that City employee compensation is way out of line. Perhaps you don't think they make enough? Is that it?" Nowhere have I said that public employees make too little. Nice try at implication by exaggeration. Indeed, several weeks ago, you asked how I would solve (albeit at the state level) the problem of public employee compensation. I gave an extended response to which you did not reply. Can't help but wonder why. Perhaps its thoughtfulness and complexity did not fit into the simple box in which you have placed me? And, no, I didn't expect that I'd convince you of anything in this or in any other discussion. My "dialogue" with alphaalpha is merely an effort to show open-minded readers that his numbers and logic are bogus and should be understood as such. That you and other appear to think that bringing to light such illogic and misrepresentation of facts means that I support higher public speaks to your agenda, not mine. Good Night and Good Luck

Cash

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:37 p.m.

Mr Darton, Are you really trying to say that it was NECESSARY to build the new City Hall as they did, instead of building a modest building? Again saying it is completely necessary to build a new building is one thing that many may argue with but ....sorry there's no way you can convince anyone that the building as designed and built was necessary. A modest building could have been chosen. However, other choices were made. That's the part you skip over. Are you really try to say that little taxpayer money was spent on the new building all of the furnishings etc? I don't think so.

sbbuilder

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 6:06 p.m.

Ghost Sorry, dude. You're on the losing end of this argument. Those numbers are not 'bogus', as you are won't to school us. It's crystal clear that City employee compensation is way out of line. Perhaps you don't think they make enough? Is that it? And, speaking of government largess, both my parents were career Foreign Service. I was the direct recipient of incredible benefits. My dad retired at age 50. And on and on. Pretty good, eh? But eminently, totally unsustainable. Very succinctly; public employees make too darn much. Period. And don't try to convince this person otherwise. Won't work. It's called personal experience.

Tim Darton

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:47 p.m.

Mr. Granger: One more time: The county is moving their juvenile courts into their courthouse so the city courts had to leave. The city looked at existing buildings for two years before deciding none of them could meet the security requirements of a courthouse. But, because the city is saving $800,000 in rent and the DDA is spending $8 million that can only be spent downtown, the hit on the general fund, that could be used to pay for things like police and fire, is very small. Bottom line: The city tried but there was no way to avoid the new building and it has only a small effect on the general fund. As for voting them out of office, the voters have had two tries since the building decision was made but the council members who voted for it were all reelected with greater margins (overwhelming) than before. The DDA can and does contribute $2 million per year to the general fund but from parking $$$ that are not restricted to just downtown.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:45 p.m.

Alphaalpha appreciates snoopdog's comments. Of course, like alphaalpha, snoopdog is selective in his use of evidence. In this case, he removed my words from the context of what followed. Much like alphaalpha removes numbers from their proper context and simplifies complex issues to the point of distortion--or worse. Is $107K too much in total cost for someone who mows the parks? Yup. Is $107K too much in total cost for a city manager? Good Luck getting a qualified individual to take the job for that niggardly sum of money, much for less for total cost of employment. Is $107K what either of these people cost the city? Nope. Hence the number is absolutely meaningless except to simpletons or to those who have agendas. Good Night and Good Luck

Tom Joad

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:36 p.m.

We are not going to tax ourselves out of Michigan's economic debacle. Sales tax is highly regressive. If local government is overextended it needs to stop spending the money. Make the tough cuts, but don't place the burden on the consumer for buying essential products.

Ron Granger

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.

Communities need to be very cautious about raising taxes. It will drive residents and businesses out. Of course, Amazon loves it when cities like Ann Arbor consider raising sales taxes. Those of us who work from home, or start new businesses, can work from anywhere. We will flee. Cities like Seattle are very appealing because there is no state or city income tax (in addition to all of the other pluses). Anyone remember the attempt by Granholm and the Michigan state government a few years ago to impose sales taxes on services? The deals were made in closed door meetings, in secret. Only connected lobbyists and corporations knew the details. Golf courses were excluded, bowling alleys were targeted. It was a classic case of the rick sticking it to the little people. There was no time to lobby your elected officials. They only backed off when the threat of being recalled from office became very real and very likely. We haven't forgotten you, Andy Dillon. Combined with income taxes, it would have immediately reduced my consulting income by over 10% compared to places like Seattle. Remind me again why anyone who could flee would stay? I fully expect bankrupt states like Michigan will increasingly attempt stick it to those who still have income. Fortunately, not all of us are stuck in underwater mortgages.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:26 p.m.

Thank you Snoopdog. Your comment is much appreciated.

Cash

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.

Mr Darton, Obviously, instead of spending more money the city could cut utility rates to relieve the burden to residents. The idea that governmental entities must SPEND every dime they get,or their budget will be reduced is the problem with NFP budgets. Even with zero base, the situation doesn't correct itself. Having an excess doesn't mean it must be spent. Over and over you say that the city could not avoid building the Rog Mahal aka City Hall. Could it have been modest instead of lavish? We've already seen the "extras" needed such as furniture. What's next? Simple decisions....if you NEED a house do you need a mansion, or a 3 bedroom ranch? People do not object to necessary spending. But you take a statement like ...the city had to build a new building....and ignore what they DID build.

YpsiLivin

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:18 p.m.

The state limits the cities' ability to collect/generate revenue through "revenue sharing", then cuts revenue sharing to the municipalities to keep more for itself. Since I occupy both a municipality and the state, the shift is neither here nor there. The changes in the revenue-sharing arrangement preserve something for me at the state level, albeit at the cost of something for me at the municipal level. It does seem unfair to prohibit the collection of sales taxes in favor of revenue sharing, and then cut revenue sharing. The money has to come from somewhere. I don't understand all of this anti-UM spew, though. Voters in Ann Arbor clearly have no problem with the "greenbelt," which is supposed to push their property values up by limiting development in the surrounding townships. To get into Ann Arbor, the newcomer must pay more for his/her property, which is in limited supply to begin with, and for which a suitable substitute can't be found in the surrounding townships (because the City is sitting on the development rights). That's all ok with Ann Arbor property owners because the value of their holdings in Ann Arbor will increase as more people want to come into Ann Arbor. Implicitly, property taxes rise with property values, but no one seems to get that. UM functions like a greenbelt within the city. When the University buys a private property in the City, it removes it from the tax rolls. By reducing the number of available private properties in the City, the value of the remaining private properties increases. Again, the taxes go up, but that's what happens when you generate scarcity. Ann Arbor residents (or at least those who own property in the City) should be rejoicing because they have not only a greenbelt outside the city acting to drive their property values up, but they also have a "Bluebelt" inside the city doing the same thing.

Ron Granger

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:17 p.m.

Gosh, if only the Ann Arbor city council hadn't gone against the citizens' wishes (and common sense) and burned $40+ Million on that stupid momument to ego city hall. Each discussion of budget shortfalls is a painful reminder of that stupidity. Each one who voted for it should be run out of office.

snoopdog

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:14 p.m.

Mister Ed said: "Yup. These are valid numbers. Now, how much of this is pay? How much is medical? How much is pension? How much is payroll tax required by the federal government and which the employee never sees?" Finally, Mr Ed admits that AlphaAlpha is correct about the 107 grand compensation package. I don't give a rats behind what the breakdown is. A 107,000 dollar average compensation package is ridiculous overspending of the taxpayers money. We are all going to need "Good Luck" if this overspending continues. We gonna all need to win the lotto to spend our way out of this mess !

walker101

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:13 p.m.

Been there and done that, if the counties are in dire straights now what makes them think they can control spending by opting a resolution to control sales taxes. I had the unfortunate reality living in an area where the county had control and eventually increased sales tax by .25%-.75% yearly, within 10 years it has doubled the sales tax and they still are overspent. Initially they'll claim that they will increase for a year or so and bring it back down, no county has every brought back sales taxes down, once they increase they'll continue. Don't let this happen, this just another way of getting more money for less services.

Tim Darton

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.

Mr. Ranzini: Of course the city's assets are up and of course they have $100 Million put away. They are building a new sewage treatment plant to replace one built in the 1930's. Its the largest public works project the city has ever had. The city is spending $165 million so overall spending is up. By the way it is paid for through water and sewer bills and before you say it, let me note that if you saw it on this site last you know they are doing it without big hikes in the rates. A DNR study showed ann arbor had some of the lowest rates in the state for H20 and sewers. People continue to act as if the city can transfer $$ between restricted funds, they cannot. The state attorney general would clamp down immediately if they used utility dollars in the general fund or parks millage $$, or solid waste $$, etc. Its the general fund that is hurting. Did anyone read this article, every city is hurting, BTW many have raised taxes but not A2. Just as the new parking structure is payed for using DDA $$ collected for the sole purpose of spurring econ. development downtown, it would be against the law to spend those dollars in the general fund. You also have your numbers wrong on parking structure, a good portion of the $$ are going to other infrastructure improvements, its not all parking. Over and over again posters here complain about the courts building but the city had no way to avoid it! Besides, the police were stuck in the basement for 30+ years, time they came above ground. And the big deal is that not much of the funding is coming from the general fund.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 5:02 p.m.

Divert and confuse? Easier to attack the messenger than the argument: public employees are over compensated.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:47 p.m.

$107,000 per year total average compensation for A2 city employees. Brings new meaning to "Cool 107".

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.

"These are valid numbers. Now, how much of this is pay? How much is medical? How much is pension? How much is payroll tax required by the federal government and which the employee never sees?" As you know, total compensation is the key metric. Many believe total compensation is too high.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:36 p.m.

alphaalpha wrote: "It's worth noting, and relevant, that commenter "Colonel" Ed is an admitted ongoing recipient of substantial public tax dollars." Indeed I am--retired lieutenant colonel from the United States Army after 25 years service. And that alphaalpha apparently thinks that this is the equivalent of being on the dole tells us all we need to know about his ideological biases. alphaalpha wrote that an article in A2.com "which provides excellent background, and verification of numbers such as the $104,000 (ex-overtime) 2011 A2 employee compensation cost), is the inclusion of the cherished overtime pay into average compensation values; while the average 2011 city employee compensation cost is approximately $104,000, the additional $2.7 million spent for 'overtime' comes to about $3K per year per employee, bringing the true average compensation cost to an amazing $107,000 per year." The bear is now 25% out of the cave. Yup. These are valid numbers. Now, how much of this is pay? How much is medical? How much is pension? How much is payroll tax required by the federal government and which the employee never sees? And yet, even if these questions were answered, they'b be meaningless. They would tell us nothing about the pay of individual job categories. They would leave us with the impression that the garbage man is compensated the same as a police officer who is compensated the same as the city manager. But it is only with such obfuscations that alphaalpha can make his "point". Good Night and Good Luck

RUKiddingMe

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:34 p.m.

Stop spending money on Fuller Station. Stop spending money on Fuller Station. STOP SPENDING MONEY ON FULLER STATION. There is no demand for it. Even if there were half the demand for it that they claim, it's over 10 years aways in culminating. It's an enormous expenditure based on the possibility of maybe perhaps at some point in time we might consider actually wanting to need it. Also, there's an existing train station with what looks to be an enormous abandoned property that's actually butting up against the "too small" parking lot that exists. If Amtrak has demand, they can use that lot. Is there anyone who actually thinks we need to spend millions on that parking structure/maybe possibly train stop in 10 years? Do we all know how much money they've ALREADY put into it? Do we all know that they didn't get any funding for it because it was not a feasible project and didn't have a provable necessity or benefit, and they're doing it anyway as a "proof" project? Isn't the city's projected expenditure on that ONE thing more than the deficit that's this big emergency?

xmo

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:32 p.m.

74% for no local sales tax! I guess you Democrats elected to office will have to try another way to raise our taxes and be anti-businees!

Dawn

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:18 p.m.

This is a SUPER plan! Tax me when I earn money, Tax me when I spend money, Tax me when I try to save money, Tax my property, tax my clothing, tax my education ( books, living expenses, etc), Taxes, Taxes, Taxes! Enough already! No more taxes! I already take home less than half of what i actually earn due to TAXES!

timjbd

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.

Another fact-free attack on public workers: <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/grass-is-greener-taller-and-tastier-for-government-workers/">http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/grass-is-greener-taller-and-tastier-for-government-workers/</a> The forces behind this &quot;Blame Government Workers&quot; farce are certainly MUCH better funded than the workers themselves. That's for sure. Jane Mayer wrote a nice exposé of the Koch Brothers who are the billionaires behind the tea party: <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer" rel='nofollow'>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer</a>

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.

One data reporting refinement which hopefully will be incorporated into the presentation of A2 city employee compensation costs in future AnnArbor.com articles regarding public employee compensation levels (such as <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/news/controlling-employee-costs-may-be-ann-arbors-biggest-challenge/,">http://www.annarbor.com/news/controlling-employee-costs-may-be-ann-arbors-biggest-challenge/,</a> which provides excellent background, and verification of numbers such as the $104,000 (ex-overtime) 2011 A2 employee compensation cost), is the inclusion of the cherished overtime pay into average compensation values; while the average 2011 city employee compensation cost is approximately $104,000, the additional $2.7 million spent for 'overtime' comes to about $3K per year per employee, bringing the true average compensation cost to an amazing $107,000 per year. Are the citizens getting $107,000 of value from each city employee? Many believe not.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 4:01 p.m.

Gorc wrote: &quot;These are tough choices [raising taxes v. cutting spending] and politicians are unwilling to make them because of the backlash from many.&quot; Truer words were never written in a discussion on A2.com. People accustomed to a certain level of governmental service now expect to pay less for it. It is the WalMart-ification of America. Good Night and Good Luck

seldon

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.

Sales taxes are regressive: they hit the poor much harder than the rich, because rich people don't spend most of their income and poor people have to spend all of it just to survive. I don't know how any liberal can support that.

Gorc

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:43 p.m.

Federal, State, and Local governments do not have a revenue problem....they have a spending issue. Whether a politician has a -R or -D at the end of their name, they have the fiscal intellect of a third grader and they spend irresponsibly. They are unwilling to make the difficult cuts because they are afraid that they will lose the support of their constituents; either politcal party could lose there power base. We can not tax ourselves into prosperity. One major spending issue that is contributing our deficits are the legacy cost of pensions and social security. They should slowly phase them out over the next decade or two by continuing to fulfill our obligations with making monthly payments to those currently being paid. When those recipients pass away, then we will no longer have that legacy cost weighing us down. Today, eliminate contributions for both the employer (governments) and employee. They can start contributing to a defined contribution plan for their retirement instead. And for those who are currently working, not at retirement age, and have paid into a pension or social security; prorate their benefits at retirement based on the amounts they contributed. This is a long term solution, but will financial benefit our society in due time. We must get rid of these legacy cost they are bankrupting governments and corporations. The State of Illinois just raised personal income tax 67% (from 3% to 5%)...they are broke. The main reason they are in dire straits...obligations to pay pensions. These are tough choices and politicians are unwilling to make them because of the backlash from many.

zip the cat

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:34 p.m.

There wouldn't be any shortages or reductions in services if they the citys and counties would live within there means and cut to the bone like everyone else has had to do. Last I heard most if not all big shooters in the county/city said they would not even think of cutting there wages and benefits,so do with out. This is only the tip of the iceberg as to whats comming down the road when the university of michigan OWNS 75% plus of the property in this city/county and still pays ZERO property taxes. If they paid there fair share there would not be any need for all of this. Good luck,I won't see it but its comming

snoopdog

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.

I quit shopping in A2 almost a year ago when the city council stuck their nose or was it their middle finger into the illegal immigrant issue in AZ. Well, I did have my birthday dinner at Weber's with my wife because you get it for free. I don't miss Ann Arbor at all, plenty of fine restaraunts elsewhere and you don't have to pay for parking. As others have said, put in a tax and it is all too easy to drive 3 or 4 miles outside city limits and avoid the tax.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:14 p.m.

alphaalpha wrote: &quot;the numbers have been posted many times on A2.com.&quot; Indeed they have. You compare public sector compensation (wages+benefits+employer costs such as payroll tax) to private sector wages. And, even were to you to compare apples to apples, your little averaging exercise is meaningless And you have been called on those bogus numbers numerous times, hence your unwillingness to post them again. But just so readers understand, my standard reply: First, readers should understand the numbers alphaalpha won't publish. He likes to &quot;report&quot; that the average A2 city employee &quot;earns&quot; $104K while the average private sector employee &quot;earns&quot; $58K. Note the para above for the problem with these numbers--they are a bogus comparison. And alphaalpha knows this--we've been down this road before--hence is unwillingness to share those numbers in this discussion. Moreover, as alphaalpha KNOWS, the BLS website from which he draws this data says that the data cannot be used in this manner. At <a href="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.tn.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.tn.htm</a>: &quot;Compensation cost levels in state and local government should not be directly compared with levels in private industry. Differences between these sectors stem from factors such as variation in work activities and occupational structures. Manufacturing and sales, for example, make up a large part of private industry work activities but are rare in state and local government. Management, professional, and administrative support occupations (including teachers) account for two-thirds of the state and local government workforce, compared with two-fifths of private industry.&quot; So the pay of a hamburger flipper at McDonalds has nothing whatsoever to do with the pay of a police officer, and vice versa, which is what your simplistic little averaging exercise insists ought be the case. Just so everyone understands the bogus numbers behind alphaalpha's statement and his unwillingness to share them. Goo

Stephen Lange Ranzini

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.

Let me get this straight, despite spending $59 million on the unneeded BIG DIG for 677 spots, or roughly $90,000 per parking spot and spending $43 million on the unneeded TAJ MAHAL, and despite having a $29.56 million increase in net assets during the 2010 fiscal year (what the private sector calls a profit) according to the city's 2010 audit report (see CAFR page 14), and despite having $103.73 million in unrestricted funds (what is called the rainy day fund - see CAFR page 10) we need to impose a sales tax because city government needs more revenue? Priceless. (The CAFR is the city's audit annual report. Go to <a href="http://www.a2gov.org/GOVERNMENT/FINANCEADMINSERVICES/Pages/Home.aspx" rel='nofollow'>http://www.a2gov.org/GOVERNMENT/FINANCEADMINSERVICES/Pages/Home.aspx</a> and click on the link to the &quot;FY2010 Comprehesive Annual Financial Report (CAFR)&quot;.)

jcj

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.

@Arieswomen &quot;Just when are they going to live within a budget like the rest of us do?&quot; A couple problems: A part of the reason the economy is where it is is because so many of &quot;us&quot; did not or do not live withing a budget. And the other problem is &quot;they&quot; (government) are not living on their money, but ours. Regarding the downtown: I enjoy driving through and seeing all the activity in the warmer months. I am glad it is full of life. But I do not spend my money on parking and atmosphere.

timjbd

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.

Statewide gas tax and means-tested tax cut repeal. If you lived it up during the boom, time to pay the piper. Otherwise only poor children and elderly will pay. If your livelihood depends on driving a gas guzzler, there are ways to subsidize. But everyone should be looking to use less fuel. These attacks on public employees have got to stop. Just because Rush Limbaugh says something, does not mean it's true. The majority of public employees make less than their counterparts in private sector at the white collar level and a little more at the blue collar level. But the white collar workers traditionally use public sector work as a pipeline to the big bucks in the private sector. This is not possible for the blue collar public sector worker. Their only other path is into poverty competing with illegal immigrants for cleaning and construction/maintenance jobs. The privatizers are planting these stories in their lapdog media in order to fully destroy public control of anything they believe can be profited from. This privatization will not lead to any greater public benefit. Quite the opposite. This whole crisis was cooked up on Wall Street and the squeeze now being put on is also their doing. Meanwhile, you can watch the stock market continue to climb. States are getting crushed while Wall Street celebrates banner profits. That should tell you something but few here seem to understand the connection. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/opinion/08herbert.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss" rel='nofollow'>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/opinion/08herbert.html?partner=rssnyt&amp;emc=rss</a>

deb

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:53 p.m.

Once again: How come we do not pressure U of M to pay for its fair share of fire production? As far as I can tell the university owns about 40% of the land in the city. The mayor says that the legislature passed a law that forces local municiplities to provide fire coverage to state owned entities (i.e. U of M) There is supposed to be a subsidy from the state to help the community provide the U fire service. This subsidy appears to have been underpaid or not paid at all in recent years. I spoke to a well respected constitutional scholar about this exact issue. The first thing is the state law violates the U.S. Constitution. His take was that the citizens of Ann Arbor could/should not be taxed in order to provide a service to a state entity; that is that the funding must come from the citizens of the entire state, not just a local population. He then said the city would have a couple options; Ask the U to pay their share, and if they do not, then the city could stop providing fire service to them. This is a very tough option, but I think the city may have to take this action. The U would then have a couple options; move as much of their operations as possible out of town and to a place that would subsidize their fire protection needs, pay and be covered, or not pay, keep operations in the city and hope no fires start, they could also invest in their own fire department (if this option were to happen, I would believe a U fd could work with the aafd, and in effect provide the same coverage we have now with the U finally subsidizing their share of costs) I am a law student, I live in the city, own my own home, and I believe I know the facts. If the city were to play hard ball with the U, we may be able to extract enough money form the aafd coverage alone to balance the budget deficit. Why the mayor and council dosent take a close look at this . . . . . .

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:51 p.m.

&quot;Colonel&quot; Ed - You can repeat the same innacuracies; the numbers have been posted many times on A2.com. Please read them.

Rose Garden

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.

The states that I frequently visit have a higher sales tax than 6%. Still, I eat at the restaurants and purchase merchandise. I doubt that a .5% sales tax will cause people to shop elsewhere.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:46 p.m.

alphaalpha wrote: &quot;We have public employees being compensated at nearly twice the average wage- our middle class workers are being paid upper class wages.&quot; Please present evidence and the source of that evidence to support this statement. Otherwise, we'll just assume there are no facts whatsoever to support and that you are, AS ALWAYS, simply making it up. Good Night and Good Luck

Tim Darton

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:43 p.m.

Actually A2 Government has been handling the funding crisis better than any other city. Or look at the county, massive deficits to deal with, or Grand Rapids where they had to raise their income tax last year and still laid off and closed pools. The same straw men keep getting put up here. The police and courts building? The city did everything it could to avoid building it. The county will save money by moving their juvenile courts in the Cty. courthouse but that meant the city courts had to move. The couldn't find anther building that would meet security so they had to build and the police have needed a new headquarters for 30 years. But guess what, they are saving $700,000 in rent and they got money from the DDA that could by state law only be spent in downtown so the $$ hit was very low. Or the underground parking structure? Paid for with DDA money that can only be spent for infrastructure downtown, not the dollars you paid (for the few here that actually live in the city) unless you live in a brand new building downtown. By any comparison A2 us doing better than any other major city in the state, taxes have not been raised, crime continues to go down and with the $$$ in the pipeline for the stadium bridges, still moving forward in the worst economy ever.

Arieswoman

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:37 p.m.

Just when are they going to live within a budget like the rest of us do? This is ridiculous and now I know why I don't go downtown. I can find everything I want outside of the city limits. It is time for the employees to take some cuts. Such as benefits. Pay more towards their insurance, etc. I just wish the library did not have most of their events at the downtown branch.

AlphaAlpha

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:29 p.m.

&quot;After years of making painful cuts...&quot; Huh? Years? Of &quot;painful&quot; cuts? &quot;Cuts&quot;? Where? We have public employees being compensated at nearly twice the average wage- our middle class workers are being paid upper class wages. Public employee wages are higher than ever; their benefits are way way above national averages; the cherished gravy overtime pay spigot still flows. Perhaps in August, the city can suspend garbage collection in another ploy similiar to those to which Cash alludes. The &quot;painful cuts&quot;, substantial public employee compensation reductions, await. Many believe they are long overdue.

Townie

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.

Funny how a tax of, say, 2% freaks out some people but they use a credit card that takes 2% out of the merchant (who probably passes it along in his or her pricing) and no one seems to even think about it. I like the idea of an out of state tuition tax - if it allows more state people to attend UM, then all the better.

prankstur

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.

I'd like to see a tax on every item sold in the USA.From a pack of gum to a house Give the states a 6% sales tax the counties would get 4% the federal government gets 3% and the cities 2%. That would be a 15% sales tax on everything sold in th US. Now get rid of income and property tax.The government has a more stable source of income and you dont pay tax unless you buy something. Plus for the states people visiting help pay for the support of your state.

Mike

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.

The last time the mayor had money in the budget he embarked on a lunatic spending spree. Just look at the gleaming new police station. It's ugly, expensive and completely unnecessary, especially when they should have been shrinking the police force to fit the building. Instead we have a bloated police bureaucracy and a blown budget. Now the mayor is floating lead balloons such as income taxes and sales taxes to shore up his inability to make the tough decisions we was elected to make. Get with it mayor! Do your job. Make your numbers. Stop whining about not getting enough of the taxpayer's money.

jcj

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.

&quot;I don't think there's a local government left in the state that doesn't have fewer police officers and firefighters,&quot; Hieftje said. And there aren't many local governments left in the state that has seen a significant cut in administrative cost!

DonBee

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:55 p.m.

Everything I need to buy is outside of Ann Arbor. I already avoid downtown because of the &quot;tax&quot; to shop (aka parking fees). I only go downtown for things I want to enjoy. With a reduced income in the household, those are much more rare. Go ahead and ratchet up the parking fees and the sales tax. It will make it even easier to avoid going into the city limits in Ann Arbor.

Kim Kachadoorian

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.

When I lived in Washington State they had this crazy tax system - differed by county, city etc. It was awful. If you worked in retail it was worse - a return from another &quot;tax area&quot; was always troublesome. Every time we up or create a new tax...it is supposed to help yet it eventually starts being drained and strained. The lottery was for &quot;education&quot;, yet what suffers - education. I want reality based planning, transparency in the process and stop running the government like it is a free for all 24-hour ATM with endless amounts of cash. Stop with the crazy projects and maintain our infrastructure and core services and then maybe we will have some money left over. I still cannot understand a HUGE hole in the ground vs. fixing a bridge that has been falling down for years. It is as if our priorities are all messed up! A new &quot;tax&quot; won't help the situation. Infrastructure and core services - keep our head above water for now. Families have budgets and are are struggling so they buy needs not wants. Infrastructure and core services are needs - go for wants in more flush years.

Chase Ingersoll

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.

All you have to think is the difference between Snyder and Granholm and then ask how the Ann Arbor administration is behaving....like Snyder or Granholm?

GoblueBeatOSU

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:06 p.m.

Bablat &quot;There isn't a tax yet that the citizens of Ann Arbor didn't like!&quot;...yes there is. For some reason people don't support a tuition tax on the colleges. What is it, 45%+ of the students at U of M are from &quot;Out OF State&quot;. Those students and their families haven't contributed one dime in taxes to support Michigan or the college. Yet these Out of State people get to benefit from all of the assets funded by Michigan tax payers. I have no problem, no problem at all taxing people from out of State that use Michigan taxpayer paid for assets. Most of these out of state students come into our state, use Michigan assets and then leave. If a tuition tax was imposed it would solve the funding problem for Ann Arbor and other cities in Michigan. Best of all, most of the revenue associated with a tuition tax would be from money outside of the State of Michigan. In other words, a tuition tax would bring in money to Michigan, rather than just taxing Michigan taxpayers more. Lets be honest, these out of state students who come to Michigan, use Michigan assets and then leave have no vested interest in the State of Michigan. Why would we not charge them for using our assets? If they don't want to pay the tax so what. There is a long list of in state students that would love to go to our tax payer funded colleges but can't because an out of state student took the spot.

braggslaw

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.

I can't see Ann Arbor passing a regressive tax.

Ron

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:54 p.m.

I say we make it mandatory any and all city workers and officials works for minimum wage and receive a medical plan that fits into the best interest of the tax payers &quot; maybe something like McDonalds offers &quot; that would save us a ton of money.. So we can start with asking Mayor John Hieftje and other local officials to step up and accept the pay cut for the good of the city...

Silly Sally

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:47 p.m.

Mayor 'Lefty&quot; can't manage a budget, demonstrated by his BIG DIG hole next to the downtown library, the city hall construction, the many, many road construction projects fro bicycles, and art and social programs. To balance the budget after all of his pet projects left Ann Arbor i the red, he has begun to cut vital services such as the fire department. Now he wants to restore it by raising taxes. While true that the city has lost revenue due to UM buying up property, especially the Park Davis&gt;&gt;Warner Lambert&gt;&gt;Pfizer sale to UM, this is all the more reason not to spend needlessly. He spent money for luxuries and now he wants to rais taxes to pay for them. I rather decide how to spend my money instead of Mayor &quot;Lefty&quot;

Bablat

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.

There isn't a tax yet that the citizens of Ann Arbor didn't like!

Machine

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:21 p.m.

Mr. Gillmore gets it right in the article. This would be another poor tax that would disproportionately affect the most those who can least afford it. Any attempts to raise revenue should be progressive so that those would can afford it bear more of the burden.

SonnyDog09

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:08 p.m.

Mayor Leftie's solution to any problem is to raise taxes. A local sales tax will just encourage more people to shop elsewhere and to shop on the web (no sales tax there).

Cash

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 12:04 p.m.

As I posted yesterday, it's the orchestrated scheme we all knew was going on behind the curtain: 1. Fund frivolous projects 2. Cut funding for core safety services. 3. Close fire station 4. Blame the firefighters 5. Introduce to taxpayers a possible new revenue stream as though it will &quot;save&quot; core safety services If not income tax, sales tax. And the planned blame game is to say that it is NOT the result of poor administrative planning/budgeting, frivolous spending, choosing pet projects....no, no.... it's the fault of the city workers. The administration is here to &quot;save&quot; core services for the taxpayers. Oh brother.

jj

Sun, Feb 13, 2011 : 11:31 a.m.

Sure go ahead and get greedy. People will just shop elsewhere. Then your revenues will drop some more.