Saline superintendent lets parents try to solve deficit problem in community forum
Still facing a projected budget deficit of $2.9 million for next school year, Saline Superintendent Scot Graden let three dozen community members try the do-it-yourself approach to the problem.
They tackled possible solutions to the district's budget woes during a Tuesday evening forum at Harvest Elementary School.
With general operating expenses already shaved thin in the projected $52.6 million budget, the result was calls for increased community support to find solutions and for shared sacrifice among teachers who have yet to agree to salary cuts.
Superintendent Scot Graden
And with cuts to school busing and athletic programs looming as the biggest potential savings in lieu of major concessions from the teachers union, the threat is that parents may look for other schools for their kids.
“Is there something a parent or group of parents can do to reach out to the union that’s holding our kids hostage?” asked parent Kym Williams, referring to the Saline Education Association.
Three other Saline unions have conceded $526,000 in salary and benefits.
Graden said personnel costs account for 85 percent of all expenditures. He presented a long list of potential savings, ranging from $10,000 by eliminating the district’s recycling program to $1.8 million by eliminating transportation.
The suggested changeover of middle school sports to an entirely pay-for-play program would save $66,000. Increasing elementary school class sizes would trim $560,000.
A 20 percent overall reduction in expenses not related to staffing is sought, Graden said. Ways to increase revenue - such as expanding the schools of choice program through sixth grade to raise $70,000 - are also being discussed.
The current deficit projections are based on the expected additional loss of $200 per pupil in state aid, an overall enrollment drop of 90 students and insurance and salary increases.
Savings were gained by closing Houghton Elementary School and cutting a small number of staff positions, among other measures. The retirement of 10 faculty members is expected.
The list of proposed cuts left many people shaking their heads.
“There are no easy solutions,” Kim Birkel said. “But the first and most important thing, as parents, is for all parties and all perspectives to come together to solve the problem in a fair manner.”Â
Birkel said many are reluctant to speak out because of Saline’s close-knit atmosphere. She suggested the distribution of a “Did you know?” sheet that would explain how a teachers’ pay freeze would save $750,000.
Brian Woodruff said several members of his discussion group didn’t believe many teachers were in accord with union negotiators, who tend to be senior members of the staff. He calculated the deficit as equal to 28 teaching positions.
“The last thing we want to do is either not compensate teachers what they’re worth or cut teachers,” Woodruff said. “But we’re stuck with only so much money.”
Another community forum is scheduled for April 12, the day before layoff notices go out.
Ronald Ahrens is a freelance writer for AnnArbor.com. Reach the news desk at news@annarbor.com.
Comments
thurber
Sat, Apr 3, 2010 : 1:32 p.m.
With such hostility and divisiveness Saline's kids are learning finger pointing from the adult's example. For shame! Knock it off. Show kids how to work together to solve problems.
SalineDad2
Sat, Apr 3, 2010 : 7:05 a.m.
It is interesting to read all of the comments on who is to blame for this mess. No where have I read where anyone is accepting any of the blame for the problems. All of the finger pointing is only an exercise in futility, unless someone is willing to step up and make the hard decisions. Scott Graden is in a tough position and one that he cannot win alone. There are three fundamental problems that have been created and need to be solved. They all must be solved to create change, otherwise, we are continuing to do the same things and expect different results - the definition of insanity. Problem #1: The union has a sweet deal with the pay and benefits. We need someone with some backbone to not cave into the demands of the union. There are excellent teachers that want to teach, but money should not be the motivating factor. Everyone (including the administrator union)should be forced take a pay cut of 10% under the exigent circumstances. The little pay cut they took is nothing more than a token. Problem #2: State and Federal government elected officials. Remember who you voted for and the expected cost of those changes everyone wanted. You think times are tough now, wait until the full impact of healthcare is felt in this country. Try to get a college loan for your child in the next few years. You will pay more. Problem #3: The community has no financial vision. Saline has one of the largest and lavish High School campuses in the State. The community voted for this expenditure but had no vision of how to fund it. We too need to live within our means and recognize the potential of best and worse case scenarios. Everyone needs to share in the pain of the current situation. Do we need to have every sport known to mankind supported within the school? I am not suggesting elimination of school sports, but there needs to be some modification of the program mentality and not everything can be a sacred cow. Who makes the decisions on what classes to drop and keep within the curriculum? Do we need guitar classes over language arts programs? We as the community need to accept part of the blame and stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution!
stunhsif
Fri, Apr 2, 2010 : 9:46 p.m.
SalineDad, You must be a "fortune teller" because you are 100% correct. Money is not going to appear from NOWHERE to fund the Saline Schools deficit. the teachers union (SEA) is not going to do what is right or what is in the kids bests interests. They will do what is in their best interests and that will lead to the road to Ypsilanti!!! Saline Schools will become just like Ypsilanti Schools. The teachers just don't get it. I will never vote for a millage increase until the teachers pay at least 20% of their health costs and take whatever paycut is needed to balance the budget.
Salinedad
Fri, Apr 2, 2010 : 11:27 a.m.
I am pleased to see that Tim and his team are finally (after 10 years of excess spending) now agreeing to try to address the structual problems of our SEA contract. Unfortunately the problem is not just addressing the going forward increases such as were referenced by the zero increase concept, but since we have pulled over $2 million per year from the reserves since 2002 because the existing contract is unsustainable, this matter requires a reduction in cost of the existing contract. Namely a 10% reduction in salary across the board for every member of the SEA and a 20% premium sharing for health benefits will be necessary to reestablish fiscal viability of the district. Without that big change in the contact value, any short tern saving such as ScottyBoy suggested will be eaten up by over 20% increases in pension cost increases and over 15% increases in Health Insurance cost expectation over the next 5 years. (per the State of Michigan Budget office) Too bad that Tim and his team rejected the idea of premium sharing for health care for the past 10 years while securing a contact that increased the salary of teachers by over 7% (step increases) plus a 2.5 - 3.0% general increase for each year since 2002. Only through a huge adjustment in the ongoing cost structure of the existing contact can the District avoid receivership by 2012. This is also when the existing contract expires, so unlike Tenn. we are not racing to the top with federal support, we are racing into a state takeover because we continue to believe that somehow the money will appear. Unfortunately on top of the 150 teachers and staff let go over the past 10 years, we will soon add about 50 more, maximizing class size at all levels, eliminating over 30 classes and still we will be without any money in 2 years unless the SEA does the big change in the contract, the existing expense, not future expense.
Peaches
Fri, Apr 2, 2010 : 9:03 a.m.
I did not vote for the millage, because we have a budget problem with the schools. We need to fix the budget problem, not throw more money at it. Last year, my employer increased the cost of my portion of benefits and reduced my "annual increase". That's just a couple of ways my employer is dealing with the budget crisis in Michigan. I handle the budget for my department and I can tell you, we only spend what we have. We have no choice, we can't go 1 million dollars into debt. In debt to who?? If we see a budget cut looming, we stop spending money and we start thinking about solutions. Some resolutions are easy and some hurt a bit more. But, we still have our jobs and we still function in a highly effective manner. I applaud Mr. Graden for inviting the parents to give their thoughts on this topic. Everytime he does something, everyone screams about it. If everyone thinks it is so easy, go to a meeting and be part of the solution -not some hysterical person who slams everyone else for what is going wrong.
Chrysta Cherrie
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 7:46 p.m.
A comment that is too long was removed.
ScottyBoy
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 7:02 p.m.
Negotiations Past Meetings Over the past several months your negotiations team has met with you in full membership meetings to describe the issues of re-opening our contract and described an acceptable solution to provide restructuring of our current contract. In our presentation we demonstrated how adding another year (2012-13) to our contract and giving the district a zero raise while moving that year to the 2010-11 year saved the district money (see example). Scot Graden and his team agree this shift will save the district 1.5 million dollars. If the board and the SEA was to agree add another year, both Scot and I agree the savings would not keep the district from closing Houghton and laying off teachers. Example: 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 (Added year) 2.5% increase 2.5% increase 0% increase Shift 2010-11(moved from 2012-13) 2011-12 2012-13 0% increase 2.5% increase 2.5% increase Current Information This morning Brian Boze and I again negotiated with Scot Graden and representatives of the district. We offered; 1. To develop a co-payment plan for our MESSA health care for the next three years 2. Take a 0% raise for the third year 2012-13 and shift it to 2010-11 for a 1.5 million savings to the district. Scot responded that the district is not interested in our proposal even if it saves money and jobs. Your team will continue to work hard as your representatives when bargaining takes place next Wednesday, March 17.
ScottyBoy
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 6:51 p.m.
The raw unvarnished facts: This was an e-mail sent to staff by Tim Heim. Negotiations Past Meetings Over the past several months your negotiations team has met with you in full membership meetings to describe the issues of re-opening our contract and described an acceptable solution to provide restructuring of our current contract. In our presentation we demonstrated how adding another year (2012-13) to our contract and giving the district a zero raise while moving that year to the 2010-11 year saved the district money (see example). Scot Graden and his team agree this shift will save the district 1.5 million dollars. If the board and the SEA was to agree add another year, both Scot and I agree the savings would not keep the district from closing Houghton and laying off teachers. Example: 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 (Added year) 2.5% increase 2.5% increase 0% increase Shift 2010-11(moved from 2012-13) 2011-12 2012-13 0% increase 2.5% increase 2.5% increase Current Information This morning Brian Boze and I again negotiated with Scot Graden and representatives of the district. We offered; 1. To develop a co-payment plan for our MESSA health care for the next three years 2. Take a 0% raise for the third year 2012-13 and shift it to 2010-11 for a 1.5 million savings to the district. Scot responded that the district is not interested in our proposal even if it saves money and jobs. Your team will continue to work hard as your representatives when bargaining takes place next Wednesday, March 17. Below are the calculated dollar amounts that each member would give back to the district over the next two years, if the shift was agreed to by the board and the SEA. These amounts of reduced raises do not include taxes, social security, retirement, etc which would provide additional savings to the district. Also attached are three examples of what data was used and how it was calculated. If you have any questions, please contact me. I will be out of the district Thursday, March 11 and Friday, March 12. I will be checking my email during this time.
ScottyBoy
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 2:52 p.m.
Ask a staff member or a Board member about the SEA offer. The SEA offered to give up their next salary increase. The Superintendent did not inform the Board about this. Talks with the Superintendent are ongoing. The Superintendent will not tell the Union what he wants. The Superintendent does not want to consider schools of choice to generate revenue.
ScottyBoy
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 2:49 p.m.
If you don't believe this, call the Union president.
ScottyBoy
Thu, Apr 1, 2010 : 2:47 p.m.
The SEA has offered to give almost $2 million back to the District in the form of salary and insurance. This was about a month ago. The offer was rejected.
BigSexy76
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 10:37 p.m.
We all know Saline Area Schools is going through some financial difficulties. I think we have taken the wrong approach on how to deal with the fallout from the state's budget cuts. We as parents,administrtaors,teachers and concerned citizens have to look at ways we can help during these turbulent times. This means that every cent that is spent in the district needs to be looked at with a fine tooth comb. We need to look at the savings of opening up teachers contracts. We need to look at ways of consoilidating goods and services that we are used to. We have to make tough decisions to make this work. Finger pointing an arguing is not going to solve the budget crisis. Strong fiscal responsilbility and creative thinking is what it is going to take to turn this district around. How do we do it you ask? There needss to be a diverse bi partisan board of teachers,parents,and citizens with different backgrounds and ideas. A deiverse group of individuals that are bettering our students and the district during these tough times. We must brainstorm ways to prevent this district from falling further into the abyss. Ingenuity can go a long ways into executing a turn around that will help our district but more inportantly our children to have a brighter future!
BenWoodruff
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:39 p.m.
stunhself, when you say the best and brightest work in the private sector, i assume you mean the brilliant minds of wall street who drove this country to the brink of economic collapse, the brilliant minds of the big three who nearly destroyed the us auto industry?
BenWoodruff
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:36 p.m.
A voice of reason, oh, please tell me how you would have these "teacher evaluations" done? Who gets credit for good student performance, this year's teacher, last years teacher, the kindergarten teacher, the librarian who instilled a love of reading, the parents who engaged themselves in their child's learning, the day care provider who read to the 3 year old? Who gets the blame, the parents who don't care, don't show up for conferences, let the kids play video games instead of read books, or the teachers who bring that same kid up from far below reading level to reading level...How about a system that now will mainstream, in all classes, severely disabled and emotionally disabled children who may be disruptive to the other kids education and who's teacher is still expected to have them all perform and excel. I am really tired of the teacher bashing, and no, I am not a teacher, but I recognize how hard most of them try to get our kids to succeed. How about we hold the rest of the occupations to the standard you suggest...if a patient refuses to exercise and take medications, let's blame the Doctor when the patient gets sick. If a patient refuses to floss and brush his teeth, we can blame the Dentist when his teeth fall out. If one taxpayer and voter is unhappy with his lot, let's blame the councilman, mayor, representative, governor...man, the simplistic thoughts regarding education amaze me...just because you have children or attended school does not make you an educational expert.
stunhsif
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:21 p.m.
@Graz, "don't be suprised when the best and the brightest begin to leave the field". First off, the best and the brightest don't play on this field to begin with, they play in the private sector. There is perhaps some truth to the best and the brightest leaving( those that play on this field) when cuts come because those cut will be the lowest seniority teachers getting fired by their own union brethren.
MOMof5
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 6:40 p.m.
As a 20+ year resident of this district, a proud parent of children who have attended and are still attending these schools, and a school employee as well, I feel compelled to say something. We are all very fortunate to be a part of one of the top school districts in this state. It is unfortunate that some parents pull their children in and out, for whatever reason, and then continue to complain and state that we should look at our leadership for the causes of some of the problems, when in fact one of those parents is in a "leadership" role in our own district. What kind of message is that sending to everyone? It is always easy to criticize and second-guess others' jobs when you are not in their shoes, to say that some are overpaid and "only work 9 months", and to complain about what isn't being done instead of trying to help find rational solutions. The next couple months will be hard for everyone, but all need to remember the bottom line------it's about the kids! And no, I'm not going to sign my name because I've already felt the cuts out of my contract, and I love my job and don't want to be reprimanded or penalized for speaking my mind.
A Voice of Reason
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:20 p.m.
Lisa Starfield, Why did Michigan not win any Race to the Top money? ACT Scores for Michigan are #49th in the nation and teacher's salaries are 4th. This union lead state has stopped innovation in education while other states--Delaware, Tennessee (the winner)--look at the Memphis School--Bill and Linda Gate foundation Education Reform will give you some guidance of where we are and where we need to be. Please stop drinking the MEA Koolaid and think on your own. AAPS gets $3000 more per student than E. Lansing and Plymouth Canton with the same MEAP results. Race to the Top winner evaluate teachers using formative evaluations, student outcomes and achievement. Parents have input on teacher evaluations!!!! Money is not the problem-it is a thug like labor union controlling our schools. Time for reform!
A Voice of Reason
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:14 p.m.
Contacts can be reopened if both parties agree. Cancelling the contract and rehiring teachers without a contact will solve the problem--this is what Detroit did. Also, chances are you are paying the salary of the union boss out of your school funds too. READ THE CONTRACT AND LOOK WHAT YOU ARE PAYING. Great school districts evaluate students using formative evaluations vs.the MEAP test, etc. and it is ongoing, by the district, etc. Teachers are evaluated, paid, hired or fired based on student achievement. DEMAND THIS IN YOUR CONTACT BECAUSE IT IS NOW THE LAW AND THE UNIONS DO NOT WANT TOUGH TEACHER EVALUATIONS TIED TO STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT-and we do not mean the MEAP or student evaluations that are tied to candy being given out on the day students evaluate your teachers. Parents should have input on teacher evaluations. Great districts-- like those who won the RACE TO THE TOP--Tennessee-do this. Looks the the Bill and Linda Gates Foundation and their education reforms. Saline is 20 years behind the rest of the country, and Michigan is #49Th in ACT scores and #4 in teacher salaries. Time for reform!!!!! Start locally and prepare our kids globally to compete! Take our schools back for the special interests.
onlinejoey
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 12:23 p.m.
There are two administrative positions on the list, plus the cut of the Houghton principal job. Also on the list are cuts to transportation, higher class sizes, cuts to maintenance, and cuts to band. Increasing School of Choice is on the list too. Supt. Graden is not turning down concessions from the SEA and accepting them from all the others. That's ridiculous and only serves to create distrust all around, but maybe that is what you want. Now, the SEA can't make up the whole problem either. They need to work out what they can - my daughter's teacher told me in detail that the SEA has been informed by the MEA they can't give concessions. Nice going MEA, way to be about your members and kids. Bottomline, cuts will need to be made - they will just be worse if nothing is worked out.
salineguy
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 11:25 a.m.
We love our schools! Our schools are awesome! Look at our test scores! Look at the success of our sports teams! Look at our facilities! We hate our teachers because they get paid a good wage to teach Brandon and Alyssa! Times are tough, cuts will have to be made - be smart about it Mr. Graden. Maybe you should have done that math online thing; would have saved millions in salary and that would be 20 less people who 'steal' the taxpayer's money. You want community suggestions? How about one for one cuts (one adminstrator/one teacher) until the budget is solved. One girls sport/one guys sport. One iPhone and stipend for... wait only administrators have those. I long for the days where parents are concerned about their precious soon-to-be six graders having to co-mingle with an 8th grader.
Graz
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 10:57 a.m.
Hehe, nope, I'm not a public school teacher, nor have I ever been. My business has nothing to do with schools or education. Nor was I saying just throw money at the schools. But you're discussing a very important part of your child's life and education's effect on society as a whole. By all means, try to make the schools efficient. But if you think that the best place to save money is to cut the pay of the person that is there teaching your child every day, then don't be suprised when the best and the brightest begin to leave the field.
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 10:24 a.m.
@Lisa Starrfield, Please stop blaming the millage failure for not continuing the status quo. Saline teachers (not your Ann Arbor teachers) teachers contribute nothing to their health care. In this day and age, some parents find that unacceptable. So asking them to share is not unreasonable. I've read all of your posts and it's nice to see you take the MEa standard line, but the bottom line is only x dollars coming in and only x dollars can be spent. You are right, teachers did not make all of this mess, school boards who approved overly generous contracts in a bad state economy contributed. Ms. Williams is correct, teachers have our students all day, and if you don't think they push their MEa agenda by comments, etc to are students - you are naive.
Lisa Starrfield
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 10:03 a.m.
Kym, I don't have a clue who you are but if this quote was accurately attributed to you, you clearly have a problem and I can't tell if it is with teachers or unions or both. "Is there something a parent or group of parents can do to reach out to the union thats holding our kids hostage? asked parent Kym Williams, referring to the Saline Education Association." Teachers did not put schools in this mess. Voters did with Proposal A and refusing the millage. Politicians did by failing to maintain school funding.
Lisa Starrfield
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:56 a.m.
This county made it clear that they didn't want to pay more taxes for schools. Clearly, they did not want the level of services that our schools currently offer. So no complaining when services are cut and no demanding that teachers pay 10 to 20 times what you were unwilling to pay. We've already taken hits enough thank you.
BenWoodruff
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.
Let's remember that the state of Michigan still has a proposal that all public employees will take a 5% pay cut and increase their medical insurance co-pays to 20%. Would you want to reopen and take cuts before you knew what the state was going to impose?
scooter dog
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:27 a.m.
since when do you ask someone to take a pay cut.Whats more important,your job or making less.Wow nobody asked me if I wanted to AGREE to a pay cut,they just deducted 15% from what I made.I can see that the teachers think they are above and beyond everyone else and are exempt from cuts.Enjoy your $376.00 per week before taxes for 26 weeks.If your lucky obama will give you a extension.
Kym Williams
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 9:23 a.m.
@A24Ever I don't know who you are, but it is clear that you don't know me or my family. I love both home school and public school and always have. Education doesn't just happen in a classroom or strictly between the hours of 7-4. That being said, I also love the teachers my children had this year. My husband and I pulled them out because of what a handful of Heritage teachers said within earshot of the students walking the hallways regarding the future employment of Scot Graden and Steve Laatch. I am not a fan of putting kids in the middle of situations that are out of their control and elected to remove mine until a resolution could be reached. Recently, one of the union leaders/high school teacher/attorney suggested that my husband "recuse himself" as a parent (as we have a daughter in the high school) and that we "muddied the waters" by having our kids in the district. So, sir, (or ma'am) that is the reason my kids are currently home schooled. It is my feeble attempt to lessen the muddied waters by removing two of the three of my kids from SAS while I wait for the union to either work with the current administration or, as important to me, have an open dialog with the parents and share what the long term plan is for the students and families of Saline. Finally, since I am the only person, thus far, to put my real name at the end of these comments, please feel free to contact me directly prior to making inaccurate statements about my parental decisions. I am always happy to share the very limited information I have as well as being open to learn more about the decisions of the leaders in our school district. -Kym Williams
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 8:30 a.m.
@cfsunlet The budget crisis will not be resolved in the next two years. At the end of those two years, the SEA contract will have ended, so at that point, it is a whole new ball game. Taking some concessions for the next couple of years is not effecting their retirement all that much. They also get a separate retirement stipend from the district - look it up in the contract.
A24Evr
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 8:28 a.m.
Mr. Aherns, you really should do a little research on the people you are suppling quotes from. One quoted person in your article has pulled her children out of Saline Schools twice. When she doesn't get her way she pulls them, then when she cools down she puts them back in. Must be home schooling isn't working out for her. And the teachers have offered consessions to Mr. Graden and he keeps turning them down. They offered to give back $4000 from each teacher and he said no. One last thing, great idea to have Middle School go to 100% Pay-To-Play sports. Why doesn't the High School do the same. There are many sports at the HS level that already pay 100% of their teams budget, Water Polo, Crew, Hockey, Lacrosse and more. It's about time the football, basketball and baseball teams get off their free ride!
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 8:26 a.m.
@momof3 - there are 4 elementary buildings - Pleasant Ridge, Harvest, Woodland Meadows and Heritage. Principals do not just deal with unruly students. I don't know "your shoes", but "my shoes" have taken significant pay cuts, benefit cuts, etc. I'm hoping to have a job through the summer. So, if I think our teachers could come up with a little "give back" - welcome to the real world. The solution is in Lansing, but that won't come to deal with the budget for the next two years at a minimum.
cfsunlet
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 8:10 a.m.
Not sure why 'Dad' thinks Saline is overstaffed--as a Saline parent, I sure don't see it. If the teacher's pay is effecting the budget so much how about some creative solutions that wouldn't involve opening up the contract? One reason teachers don't want to open up the contract is because it could effect retirement pay for the rest of their lives. We also don't know how long the economy could be in the tanker. If the economy picks up tax revenue will increase and budget problem will resolve, so why make teachers go through concessions that will effect them for a long time to come? One neighboring district asked their teachers to agree to a temporary pay-cut by accepting 2-3 furlough days on days that the kids weren't scheduled to be in attendance (teacher development, snow days, or grade reporting). It resolved the budget and was agreed to using a simple letter, so the contract didn't need to be opened up.
Michigan Mom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 8:02 a.m.
@Tigers68 - He's not asking them to do his job...he's asking them to get involved! When he makes cuts, he gets criticized for not asking for feedback...when he asks for feedback he gets criticized for not doing his job! If you ask me, Scot Graden is what is keeping this district together. These are hard times. This is not a Saline overspending issue. School districts all over the country are hurting. The teacher's union needs to wake up and make some concessions...there is no other answer left. We have a lot of great teachers in this district, but we also have a lot of teachers that need to go. If the union won't budge, I say follow the lead of Rhode Island and Kansas City...fire them all and start over!
Momof3
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:55 a.m.
@Salinemom...Is that fair that you say only 36 community members "cared" enough to find out about cuts. Are you living in "our" shoes to find out if the schedule worked? Most of us are working two jobs to make ends meet. As for the principals, yes I'm suggesting we only need one principal for the THREE elementary's. Hire another underpaid staff member per school to share some of the duties. Do we have unruly kids in each elementary school that need to be handled only by a principal?
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:43 a.m.
@tigers68 - the real issue is only 36 community members cared enough to find out about what cuts are on the table and offer the superintendent their thoughts on what those cuts mean to their families and the district. Based on past superitendents - we are in great shape.
scooter dog
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:36 a.m.
Wow,What a farce,if your waiting for the teachers to AGREE to wage concessions and give backs,hell will freeze over first.Waiting for them to agree!,please give me a brake.What planet do you reside in.
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:34 a.m.
@momof3 - you are actually suggesting that one principal can cover 4 elementary buildings? I'd like to see you take a walk in their shoes for just 1 day.
TIGERS68
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:26 a.m.
"Saline Superintendent Scot Graden let three dozen community members try the do-it-yourself approach to the problem" Isn't the superintendent suppose to be a leader and very well paid to handle these exact problems? I wish I could find 36 people to come in and do my job!!! The first thing the folks in Saline should tend to is finding someone who is actually qualified to be a superintendent of a school system such as Saline's. Once you accomplish that, good results will follow. Strong leadership and thorough knowledge of the situations that surround you in your job is the key to success and it's quite clear that Mr. Graden has failed that course......
Momof3
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:25 a.m.
Have I gone to the board meetings, yes....Have I written to my representative with my concerns about our school district, yes....Will I do the job our superintendant is paid to do, no....
Momof3
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:21 a.m.
SalineMom....why do we need a principal at every school? One principal for all elementary schools. I also will not compare our situation with others in the county. Who cares what they are doing? We need to be focusing on our own problems. Lastly about the parking lot....I have also heard this excuse. I don't find anything a win/win about this situation. The Library raised my taxes (in the day of the internet) for a new building. So, they raised my taxes in order to help pay for a parking lot?? I knew everything about the parking lot reconstruction however, the school did contribute to it.
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:19 a.m.
@momof3 - it is not an excuse - it is the truth. What overhead are you referring to?
Ram
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:17 a.m.
Have you contacted your legislative representative? Have you gone to a School board meeting to ask them to put pressure ont he legislature and or the media?
stunhsif
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:15 a.m.
Graz, tell us you are not a public school teacher? This whole thing is getting very tiresome. Hopefully at some point we will have learned our lessons and somehow bust these unions that don't give a hoot about our kids so they can just waive their middle finger at us when we ask them to take fair and reasonable cuts to pay and pension just as all of us in the private sector have taken the past 4 years. As well, we need to quit electing retired public school teachers to the school boards because the fox is guarding the henhouse in the Saline Public School District. David Friese and David Medley are both retired public school teachers. Do any of you think they have an interest in cutting teachers pay and benefits?
Momof3
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:14 a.m.
Yes, I have heard that excuse before about the parking lots. My answer....start working on the laws. Take it to the media. Put some pressure on legislature to correct this wrong. Do SOMETHING besides trying to raise our taxes or cut teachers. Funny how you didn't comment on cutting the overhead.
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:14 a.m.
@momof3 The middle school parking lot was redone as a joint project with the library. There was some grant money used and it cost the district very little money. It was a win/win for both the middle school and the library. You'll find references to it in last springs board meeting minutes. Each elementary school only has one principal - two at the middle school and three at the high school. The Saline admin costs are almost the lowest in the county. Since every other employee, except for teachers, have taken pay/benefit cuts - the budget is already pretty thin with overhead - there is not much else left.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:12 a.m.
$2.9 Million! with no end to cuts in site. Wonder what 2012 is going to look like. Tax revenues will drop again and again - get ready for that.. Saline teacher salaries are OUT OF CONTROL - for 9 months of work.. So instead of taking a pay-cut to keep more teachers "teaching our kids", the Union would rather cut the number of teachers - so to keep the student teacher ratio high, so they can keep complaining about the budget and that they don't have enough teachers. The Unions sicken me. These are our kids - this is Michigan (the Great Recession State) - teachers get summers off + extra vacation + training days during the school year + sick days + 300 minute/day work limitations + insane insurance benefits. If this were a private company it would have been out of business along time ago. BTW - nice job hiding the Union contract - almost impossible to find information.
Ram
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:10 a.m.
The money used to reconfigure the parking lot is different from the general fund money which is used to pay teachers. For SAS to be able to use those funds more freely, certain Michigan laws would have to be changed.
Momof3
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7:06 a.m.
Why are we not cutting some of the overhead? Why does every school need a principal? Why can't the elementary's have one? That would save a bundle. If they need the staff to oversee, hire staff members back (that make 1/3 the money) to help. Also, why do we keep attacking teachers pay to make up the difference? Isn't education the most important thing for our children? Do we want just anybody educating our children or top of the line? Lastly, we are in a budget crunch, yet last summer the entire parking lot was reconfigured at the MS, costing thousands and thousands of dollars. It is like a family claiming they are broke but still going on vacation. I will not support teachers pay cuts or my taxes raised until I see budget cuts made appropriately.
SAStudent
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 7 a.m.
Hey Saline community members: continue this important discussion at www.salineforum.com
Ram
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 6:57 a.m.
Did you know that Saline Area Schools received $58 per student from the Federal government in the 2007-2008 school year? Ann Arbor Public Schools received $294 per student from the Federal government in the 2007-2008 school year (Source: National Center for Education Statistics, a branch of a the United States Department of Education). We need serious, broad financial reform.
FreedomLover
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 6:28 a.m.
Graz, Just how much money do you think the public schools should get from the taxpayers? Maybe an open checkbook with an unlimited balance. As for private schools, many have tuition which is much lower than the state allocated per pupil payment to the public schools. For the most part the teachers at the private schools are paid only a fraction of what the unionized teachers at the public schools receive and they turn out a very well educated student. There is a limit to what the taxpayer can pay. I remember back in the 60's and 70's when farmers in this state had to sell their farms because they could no longer afford to pay the property taxes. It's not that we want uneducated children, we just want our money well spent and not wasted.
AlphaAlpha
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:54 a.m.
Looking at page 62 of the Saline teacher contract found here: http://www.mackinac.org/depts/epi/agreement.aspx. salary (not including another ~40% for benefits) levels are shown on page 62 of the contract; and, per figures elsewhere on this site, it's interesting that Saline teachers are paid approximately the same as Ann Arbor teachers: they earn approximately twice what the average private worker earns.
SalineMom
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:42 a.m.
@Salinehornet - the "cuts" the SEA proposed would have little or no impact on the district budget because they only delayed their compensation. Tell the truth - it is SEA/MEA math. Ask any other employee group in the district what a "cut" means - you give up something and it's not coming back. On April 13th when the lay-off notices go out and it reaches deep into the SEA seniortiy ranks maybe then the SEA membership, not the SEA leadership will realize how out of touch they really are. Reform won't come before the budget needs to be set. Take your hit like the rest of the state and stop hiding behind MEA/NEA "rules". If the membership votes to open - you're telling me the MEA/NEA won't allow it. You are wasting your dues....
salinehornet
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:24 a.m.
"teachers who have yet to agree to salary cuts" is FALSE. Teachers agreed to at least two different salary cuts, saving the district $1.5 million. It was accepted at first by Scot, and then rejected. The contract CAN NOT be reopened due to MEA and NEA rules. We need to have school finance reform.
cinnabar7071
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 5:15 a.m.
Quality doesn't always cost more money. Shopping for efficiency doesn't mean we don't care about the children, if fact it shows we do care.
Graz
Wed, Mar 31, 2010 : 4:48 a.m.
I don't live in this school district, but why is it that we continually ask the teachers to give up pay and benefits to teach our children so that we don't have to spend a few more dollars on property taxes. But hey, doing that allows us that extra coffee drink, or neat new cell phone, or extra channels on our television package. Why can't Johnny read? Maybe because nobody wants to spend any money on the schools, including spending money on paying teachers. Why are private schools so much better? Maybe it's because they cost so much. You get the quality that you pay for, like many things in life.
Dad
Tue, Mar 30, 2010 : 11:50 p.m.
What Scott didn't tell you is he was the genius that gave the teachers the contract in the first place. A lot of vision there Scott... The Saline school district has been grossly over-staffed for years. Drop 11 positions and that would save nearly a million bucks. Nobody would even notice. Buy hey... let the games continue...
stonecutter1
Tue, Mar 30, 2010 : 11:14 p.m.
How about all these concerned parents get together and pony up the dough to pay for their kids extra-curricular activities? Breeding is a global problem. Let the breeders foot the bill! The world is over populated. Just because you desire a little version of yourself, to further contaminate the planet, doesn't mean everyone should pay the tab! Idiocracy has begun!