Taybor

Tue, Jul 27, 2010 : 1:26 p.m.

are you frikken kidding me scooter dog? what the hell does violent vidoes have to do with anything....this is a simple fact of kids seeing sex propogandized* on tv movies and internet....the simple truth is the boy obviously pressured the girl into doing it cuz no girl in her right mind would intentionally TAKE a nude photo let alone SEND a nude photo.....it really isnt that hard to see

robyn

Wed, Jun 23, 2010 : 9:47 a.m.

@ Ricebrnr: You got that right.

Ricebrnr

Wed, Jun 23, 2010 : 6:14 a.m.

"WOW you can track your kid with their cell phone. What happened to parental supervision at that age? Amber Alerts are for lost/kidnapped kids. " That's an awfully BP attitude. Don't utilize safety devices because the chances of something happenning are really low. How's that work out for them? And why does having one automatically preclude the other? I guess you wait for a fire and then buy a fire extinguisher or smoke detector? Do you wait for an accident and then put on your seat belt? Sorry my children are too precious to chance needing an Amber alert and then chance it working to get them back. Personal responsibility includes using any and all tools at your disposal in a layered security system (which includes supervision). I reiterate, don't blame the tools if some can't or won't use them responsibly.

rosewater

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

WOW you can track your kid with their cell phone. What happened to parental supervision at that age? Amber Alerts are for lost/kidnapped kids.

Rod Johnson

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 5:16 p.m.

My oldest just turned 18 and has never shown much interest. I kind of had to push a cell phone on him too, actually. :)

Lokalisierung

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 4:58 p.m.

Although from what I've seen a drivers licience isn't the hottest thing anymore. There isn't anyone I even knew through a friend that didn't rush out to get that DL the second they turned 16, or even the learner's permit @ 15 1/2. I hear a lot of kids now who are 18ish and over that don't even have one.

Rod Johnson

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 4:45 p.m.

I know right? Crazy.

Lokalisierung

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 4:20 p.m.

"Does your kid NEED...., a driver's license,..." OUCH! I didn't even know that was legal!

Rod Johnson

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 4:12 p.m.

Not belittling, just responding, and not necessarily only to you.

Rod Johnson

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 10:55 a.m.

Look, folks, being a parent is difficult. Raising kids is one long uncontrolled experiment and I think every new parent quickly discovers that everyone has an opinion about your parenting, many of them are obnoxiously interested in sharing it, and there's very little agreement or reasoning beyond "in my day...". So you do your best. You read a thousand parenting books and they all disagree, you talk to your mom and it's clear that she was uncertain too. You make all kinds of decisions based on your own upbringing--which typically wasn't perfect--and on gut feelings, your sense of what's appropriate based on who your kids are and what you think is best for them. Unless you're Ward Cleaver, sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, sometimes you just don't know. So some parents decide that cell phones are appropriate for their kids, for whatever reason. They may think their kids are mature enough, they may not have land lines, they may feel they need to get in touch with their kids at any time, they may feel their kids need to get in touch with *them* at any time, they may do it to make their kids feel loved. Who knows? Unless it's your kid, you're ignorant of the circumstances and really, it's none of your business. But there's no general principle that says every kid needs X and no kids need Y. There may be some easy cases (books are good, crack cocaine is bad), but most of the time it's a big gray area. Does your kid NEED expensive basketball shoes, a driver's license, an ipod, a Barbie, an airsoft gun, a cell phone, a bike, pierced ears, a pet, birth control, Pokemon cards, a nose job, a Facebook account, etc.? Of course not. Does that mean they absolutely *shouldn't* have them? Of course not. It's a decision you have to make based on what you know, and guess what? The opinions of some dude on a website are very low on the list of factors most of us consider. The chain of logic that says that kids misusing cell phones is indicative of a moral failing on the part of the parents for allowing them to have cell phones is just ludicrous.

salineresident

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 10:23 a.m.

Why is it that everything that happens in Saline makes the news or the paper immediately? Unfortunately these things happen in all the school districts. Its a shame, but for those of you who feel compelled to act like nothing like this went on when you were growing up, who are you kidding? Does everyone forget Truth or dare, or spin the bottle? Yes maybe everybody didn't participate in those games but they certainly did exist. Wow, wasn't the 70's known for sex drugs and rock n roll? Times have changed dramatically with technology, but kids will experiment and test there boundaries no matter what decade we live in. For those of you who are not parents, I'm sure if and when you are in our shoes raising children, your mightier than thou attitude may change. There are good parents and bad parents. Good kids and bad kids. There will always be temptations for our children, as there are always temptations for adults. If none of this existed oh what a perfect world we would live in...but such is not the case. Being a parent is the hardest job in the world, so until you walk in our shoes, try not to judge. I hope the kids involved will learn from their mistakes and move on, but criminal charges and being labeled as sex offenders is absurd. This gives us all an opportunity to do some teaching here so we don't wake up one day and find out our child made a bad choice. Best of luck to all of you out there who haven't entered the chapter of parenthood.

Rod Johnson

Tue, Jun 22, 2010 : 10:15 a.m.

Of course I read your comment. It was typical opinionizing from someone who has never actually had to deal with the practical decisions parents have to make on a day to day basis, with no actual reasoning to back it up.

Ricebrnr

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 7:19 p.m.

Ummm, they had Polaroids WAY back then too. And yes kids were using them the same way too. And no that doesn't mean its acceptable. But no it's not a technology thing, it's a personal and parenting responsibility thing.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 6:29 p.m.

I didn't really care to go into the entire history of people playing doctor or anything, I was just stating from my own personal experience things of that nature occured back when I was young. Actually, some of THOSE things probably happened in the late 70s so there, you know someone now. As for why it is happening now; I would say it's 90% technology based. Look, if I could have taken pictures of naughty things when I was in middle school, I would have, many of us would have. Of course I didn't have a camera the size of a credit card, so it wasn't possible. And even if I did, I would have had to figure out how to develop the film myself and so on and so on....all to do with technology. Kids usually do not think that far in the future, so they are getting passed by technological advances and a whole new set of rules and mores are being figured out on the fly. If you're really asking when kids started experimenting with their sexuality, learning about their bodies, & playing doctor; I would guess somehere around 4000 BC. Of course they didn't have cameras, just cave paintings.

robyn

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 5:31 p.m.

@ Lokalisierung: Oh - okay - they did THAT in the 80's... I guess THAT makes it okay huh? Maybe instead of wonder WHEN this type of garbage became acceptable - we should be asking WHY it has become acceptable. And it really has nothing to do with going to church or religion, it has to do with why we keep lowering the standards for our own behavior.

robyn

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 5:22 p.m.

@ Salinemom123: You're right - to label these kids as pedophiles or sex offenders is something that will cause them more harm than the public humiliation they are already facing. The bad thing about the sex offender registry is that it really doesn't differentiate between stupid teen choices and REAL perv's and predators. I do hope that the school will offer some sort of program that will really teach the kids about the dangers of hat they are doing when they send out or pass along those kinds of photos or information. What may seem like a non-biggie at the moment can have a lasting impact on their young lives. Kids have enough to deal with and woory about - this is NOT something they need to burden themselves with out of boredom or 'acceptance'.

Rod Johnson

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 2:07 p.m.

"I dont have kids yet but"... Yeah, I had all the answers before I became a parent too.

Salinemom123

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 12:24 p.m.

I happen to know a couple of the kids involved in one of these incidents and they are very good kids with good parents. These children are not sex offenders or criminals. This situation is not new, remember last year in Pickney High School? Take a look at your child's facebook - how many photos are sexually suggestive from both boys and girls, a lot! It is the responsiblity of the parents to keep PARENTING and stop looking to pass the blame elsewhere.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 11:26 a.m.

"was a teenager in the 70's and I didn't do that - don't know of anyone who did." Well it happened in the 80s.

robyn

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 9:47 a.m.

Playing 'doctor' and exchanging nude photos of each other in the 70's was how it was done? Really? I was a teenager in the 70's and I didn't do that - don't know of anyone who did. It's that blase attitude that makes this kind of behavior seem almost 'normal' for teens. Sorry it's not. Parents really need to be parents and stop thinking that attaching their child to an electronic unbilical cord is the next best thing to being there or keeping their child attached. While giving a young teen a cell phone CAN be a measure of safety - you can't just hand it over and forget about it with the hopes that it will keep your kid safe. A lot of parents think they need to be 'cool' - or allow so much freedom that their kid is making choices that they aren't mature enough to make on their own. A perfect example is the girl in this article... She felt 'pressured' and her friends 'encouraged' her to send the pictures. It's no fun being an 'uncool' parent - but I bet it's even less fun to watch you child deal with the repercussions of such a bad choice. My rules as the 'uncool' parent: I have access to your cell phone - block me and the cell phone is GONE. I am your'friend' on your FaceBook - block me and the computer is GONE. I have also explained to her WHY these rules are in place and made her aware of how bad choices can impact her life in ways that most people would never even think about. For being an 'uncool' Mom - I actually have a pretty good and open relationship with my kids. So I guess it does pay off.

Jay Allen

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 7:38 a.m.

ricebrner has made (2) excellent posts. To the person who said: I am familiar with Saline". Yes, we were just rated the #1 School district in Washtenaw County. All school districts need more folks like David Raft, Scott Graden, Ben Williams, and Rob White. It is NOT the telephone's fault or technology's fault. As was said, pictures were passed out in the 1970's and we played doctor. The kids are indulging in the same stuff we did except they have more toys (technology) than we had had. Don't take the holier than thou approach to the same stuff kids have done for decades. It comes back to parents and parents knowing what their children are doing. The 5.00 I pay per month for Sprint's "Family Locator" is the best 5.00 I spend........But I guess I am "over indulgent" just because I live in Saline.......

15crown00

Mon, Jun 21, 2010 : 1:05 a.m.

As long as kids are allowed to have cellphones in school a CERTAIN amount of them will do this kind of thing.It has to be tough to trace down because nobody wants to be a rat. Obvious solution is to take the phones when the kids come in and give them back when they leave. At least then the problem will be solved at school.Like smoking the only way they'll really be stopped is to pass a law which bans cell phones EXCEPT in the privacy of your own home.

48104

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 10:01 p.m.

Certainly, people are free to waste their money on phones and their time setting rules/taking calls/arguing over every setting and feature. That's America. No one should kid themselves that their children are really that much better off with the phone than without it.

Fat Bill

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 9:58 p.m.

In the end, we have a couple of photos with too much skin running around. I hope the prosecutors keep in mind the nature of the crime. These weren't pictures taken by a pedophile and circulated; these were apparently naked self-portaits. Obviously, once they are out there, these phtotos could land anywhere; two kids have just learned the hard way. Ill-advised, but certainly not in need of heavy court action. Notify the parents, let them take action, and lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Both of my kids carried cell-phones in middle-school; financial and personal circumstances required that they be latch-key kids and I very much appreciated the ability to contact them or leave a text or voicemail for them to get between classes.

Ricebrnr

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 9:13 p.m.

So once again the question is not one of the tools but one of personal responsibility. That of the parent and that of the child. I don't blame the phones for poor decisions or actions nor should anyone question the choices of those who can utilize them responsibly.

Kristin Judge

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 8:42 p.m.

This is an unfortunate incident and reminds us of the need for awareness and education for students and parents. Sheriff Jerry Clayton and I have started the Washtenaw County Internet Safety Task Force this year, and we have members on this task force from local, state and federal agencies. We are just getting off the ground, but the group is made up of experts in the area of Internet Safety. Sheriff Clayton and I along with all the wonderful police agencies in the county are committed to public safety. We are creating a plan to collectively raise awareness and educate our residents. Talk to your children! Right now, parents can go to these two sites for important information: www.staysafeonline.org Michigan Attorney General Cyber Security Initiative http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_48889-188321--,00.html National Center for Missing and Exploited Children Cyber Tipline http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17334_48889-188321--,00.html

48104

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 7:17 p.m.

I believe it's a police matter because it is child pornography. Maybe I'm old school (okay, I know I am), but my middle schooler doesn't have a phone, rides the bus home, does various activities, and we have all managed. Any time we have needed to keep in touch, there are phones available -- in the office at school, at the dance studio, at a friend's house. As for emergencies, maybe we've led a charmed life, but the worst emergencies have been a forgotten instrument or lunch, or a meet or practice that ran shorter or longer than expected. In all cases, there were phones available or one or the other of us just had to wait around. Her friends abuse their phones. They call mom for inanities, or update Facebook during class (which the parents see but somehow can't do anything about). Or they lose them, or in the best case, don't keep them charged or turned on so the parents can't reach them when they expect to be able to. All I hear is complaining from middle school parents about phones., and that is without sexting.

Mugsy

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 7:16 p.m.

Phdeez - it is considered child pornography under the law. I really think the cell phone thing has gotten a little ridiculous when it comes to kids. When I was in school and my parents needed to get in touch with me (which was rare, and probably is today as well) they called the school and I was called to the office. Most schools have phones in every classroom. If a cell phone is needed to ease the parents' minds, then limit the access through a specialized child plan. You can still have GPS, you can still get in touch, but you may not have texting. Some plans even allow you to monitor/block numbers that are called or from which calls are received. The amount of middle school and high school kids walking around with iPhones/Blackberries/other smart phones is silly. They don't need to be THAT connected and all I'm seeing are kids who are CONSTANTLY on the phone when they're with their friends. Let's rethink just what is NECESSARY and stop with the over the top stuff. No middle schooler needs a blackberry, people.

Rod Johnson

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 7:16 p.m.

"Two of them said they saw the photo independently while looking through the male students cell phone photos and were not deliberately shown." I think this sentence is a little muddled. "And why do middle school kids even need a cell phone?" And why should that be any concern of yours? I could tell you why mine had a cell phone... but really, it's not the business of anyone outside my family.

Ricebrnr

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 5:28 p.m.

"And why do middle school kids even need a cell phone?" Well they have these GPS devices in them that help police locate them. Kinda handy don't you think, if your child was lost or worse kidnapped? I'm indulging in my preparedness, nothing else.

phdeez

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 4:55 p.m.

how is this a police matter? i understand that it seems like a morality issue for a 13 year old to text a nude or nearly nude photo to another student/friend, but how is that illegal? will the police register the 13 year olds as a sex offender? will the parents be fined? I am unclear on the legal boundaries being crossed here. Is it considered child pornography and treated as such? does "the age of consent" come into play if the minor willingly engages in sexting with another minor? This is all quite weird and wild stuff.

Bear

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 3:17 p.m.

"And why do middle school kids even need a cell phone?" @ Rosewater. I can think of two reasons right off the bat and neither have to do with "indulgent" parents. 1.) So that parents and kids can keep in touch. 2.) in case of emergencies

bunnyabbot

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 1:04 p.m.

parents have no clue what their kids are really doing. they always think its some other kids and not theirs.

rosewater

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 1:01 p.m.

And why do middle school kids even need a cell phone? Indulgent parents need to spend more time parenting and less time on other stuff! And I am familiar with Saline.

ChunkyPastaSauce

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 12:54 p.m.

"both incidents will be reviewed by Washtenaw County prosecutors for potential violations of state computer sex crimes laws." Yes because clearly both of these teenagers are dangerous criminals and deserve to be marked as sex offenders. Im with Basic Bob (comments above) on this one. I have a lot more to say about the insanity of this but Im short on time right now.

kdadnick

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 11:40 a.m.

No longer can parents talk about how much harder their lives were than the children's lives are now. But why? Because adults are making kids lives really tough to live up to. We are putting technology in their hands because it's convenient for us. We are convinced youngsters are "mature enough" to watch PG-13 and R rated movies and television shows. Teenage pregnancy and parenthood, split families with "steps" and "exes" are the norm and glamorized. The children are mimicking what they see and hear others doing (often within their homes) and then we, as adults, shake our heads and wonder why they don't know better. They are CHILDREN. As for Basic Bob - I'm glad you are talking with your daughter, but one of your comments REALLY concerns me. "I just learned about "sexting" from her last week." WOW. My children are adults -- it's been over a year since I heard the term sexting for the first time, and it wasn't from them. Please, please.... parenting is tough, but it's really important to stay a step ahead of them, not behind. Blessings to all who have to endure this era with their kids. It can't be easy!

Basic Bob

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 11:09 a.m.

@Steven Harper Piziks, please reread the article: "the first recent incident was reported by school officials" "Raft called police again... when a girl told school officials" Saline Middle School called the police twice. I'd say they are somewhat involved. My daughter is 13 and I just learned about *sexting* from her last week. It happens at her middle school, too.

Steven Harper Piziks

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 10:18 a.m.

According to the story, the school was not involved in any way. The headline is therefore misleading. It should read "teens" or "young teens" not "middle school students."

Basic Bob

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 10:10 a.m.

Back in the day before internet, kids were playing doctor or passing around Polaroid pictures of themselves. Teenagers have not changed, only the technology. This has to be embarrassing for the kids who get caught.

scooter dog

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 9:56 a.m.

Its time to wake up folks Kids now days are light years ahead of what their parents think there little darlings are up to. This kind of activity happens every day and with parents taking a(my little darling doesent do these things attitude) then it will only get worse. As long as little billy has un restricted access to the internet and parents allow them to buy all those violent videos then this is what happens

debling

Sun, Jun 20, 2010 : 8:38 a.m.

This story is just sad all around. It is so depressing to know that this kind of activity could be happening and especially with middle school aged children. I hope the Saline Police investigate this to the fullest. I also hope that this topic is addressed with the school children early in the fall with the new incoming class. It is as important to talk about as drugs and alcohol.