a2xarob

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:31 p.m.

I wish someone at UMTRI ( U of M Transportation Research Institute) would weigh in here. They are indeed the professionals in this area.

kirkers

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:28 a.m.

I have been scared out of my mind three times; all the same situation. I was driving on a multi-lane road (Plymouth, Stadium, Huron Parkway) and saw a pedestrian ahead at a crosswalk. I easily slowed down and stopped. Then as the pedestrian started crossing in front of my car another car approached from behind, changed lanes and passed, nearly hitting the pedestrian. Once the other driver honked and angrily gestured as he went by. I hate these locations because I feel I put pedestrians in danger by stopping for them and don't trust approaching traffic to understand why I have stopped. I am sadly not at all surprised about this fatality. We love ideal, but should settle for practical safety here. Eliminate the multi-lane pedestrian crossings on the faster roads.

Linda Peck

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:56 a.m.

Ryan, you come across as a political supporter of Mrs. Briere. No problem with that, I just made a note of it.

EyeHeartA2

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:39 a.m.

Thank you Vivienne Armentrout for pointing out this data: http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/19/aug-19-2013-ann-arbor-council-preview/ I would like to thank AA.com for supplying it, since we have only been asking about it for a week or so, but.......yep. So here is the data, pulled from a bar graph (so it may be off by one or two/year. 2004 42 2005 43 2006 37 2007 50 2008 50 2009 41 2010 42 Pedestrian Ordinance Approved in July 2010 2011 62 2012 60 So.....I wouldn't call this a ummmm resounding success. Can politicians be charged with gross negligence?

jrad1978

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:08 p.m.

This article is misleading .....it states that there have been only two accidents at the Plymouth rd crosswalks .....this is not true ...having lived and workers on that side of town for over a decade I can attest to seeing at least a dozen accidents at the new crosswalks ....mainly involving rear end accidents involving motorist who obey the law and stop ...and the motorist behind rear ending them .....this article gives no mention of that .. I am both a driver and bicyclelist on that side of town ....and when i am driving in my car not only do I have to watch for pedestrians including jaywalkers ...but i have to look in my rear view mirror to make sure the guy behind me is doing the same so i don't get rear ended......... also when i am on my bike and approach the crosswalk I do the same and the sign clearly states to observe traffic and proceed with caution ......their is also an audible warning stating that drivers may not stop .....without placing blame can anyone else relate to what I am saying about this? ....I feel that they are death traps with simply too many variables to ever considered be safe .....

Vivienne Armentrout

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:47 p.m.

Reporters for AnnArbor.com would do a public service by making a video showing these lights as they are operated at a crosswalk. I don't think they are best described as "flashing yellow". They are brighter than the yellow in a stoplight and they flash back and forth in an attention-getting pattern. I saw them when driving on Plymouth and was quite startled.

Alden

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 6:57 p.m.

Thanks to Sabra Briere, for all this information. I will be more careful downtown, both walking and driving.

Brad

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 6:22 p.m.

While the downtown intersections may be "most dangerous" by the chosen metric it doesn't reflect the severity of the injuries. It seems like when we have an incident at one of the mid-block crosswalks on the higher-speed non-downtown roads that they wind up being more serious or fatal injuries. Not that the low-speed collisions in the city are acceptable but they are apparently more survivable. Again, it would be good to see the source data.

whale11

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 5:16 p.m.

Nobody mentions the cell phone problem. At Fifth and Liberty, a man in a wheelchair was knocked to the pavement, while the woman continued to talk on her cell phone. And she didn't even stop. It was have been an engrossing conversation.

DJBudSonic

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 4:32 p.m.

This is typical city council CYA. Our city leaders promotion of these unsafe crosswalks is not based in science, or even the most basic understanding of human nature, on both sides of the windshield. All this pedestrian-empowering 'traffic engineering' does is create a false sense of security for those who are most vulnerable, the pedestrian. Creating or adopting traffic laws that few know and fewer follow is not responsible leadership. Defending these laws in light of the recent tragedy is just in bad taste, and their efficacy will likely not be bourne out when the statistics are compiled a few years from now.

Brad

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 3:30 p.m.

Any chance we can see the data? There might be other interpretations.

Woman in Ypsilanti

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 3:25 p.m.

While I agree with everyone that ultimately pedestrians need to watch out for themselves, I also think that putting drivers in jail for hitting pedestrians would help people remember to drive safely and respect things like crosswalks.

bunnyabbot

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 2:50 p.m.

I have to agree with other posters. If you want there to be more non-motorized traffic in town and especially downtown there needs to be some enforcement of traffic laws for them too. Jaywalking should be TICKETED. Bicycles should be fined DOUBLE. Everyday I drive downtown, everyday I deal with jaywalkers and bicycles, just yesterday two bikes ran red lights. If we are "sharing" the road then why do these people have less responsibility to traffic laws then I do in my car?

Orangecrush2000

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.

Again, I'm speaking from enough experience in that I've lost a close family member, and to this day still continue to help care for another due to injuries suffered; from a truck which passed stopped cars at a red light, drove through an open right turn lane, and sped into the intersection, striking my brother and niece. The indication was that the driver of the truck simply "didn't want to stop," "was in a hurry to get home, " etc,..., saw what he thought was an opportunity to zip past everyone, unscathed; and went for it ....................... People will not stop for lights, blinking red or otherwise, nor for concern of others if they don't want to, or don't care............... With that said, the only way to prevent death and injury is to provide pedestrian bridges. Even in downtown, in Minneapois, for example, they have many ped bridges and walking paths. But, especially at a gateway road like Plymouth, there should be a pedestrian bridge, as well.

Widow Wadman

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 2:13 p.m.

Ms. Briere will not be getting my vote this November.

Jim Walker

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 2:03 p.m.

A correction and an addition to the UTC pedestrian rules relayed by Leslie Morris. Correction to the item called "First" UTC Part 7, 28.1702 Rule 702, Found on page 16, crossing without a signal Drivers must yield to pedestrians in the same HALF of the crosswalk as the vehicle, or to pedestrians so close to that half as to be in danger. On a wide street, drivers do not have to yield to pedestrians in the opposite half of the crosswalk if they are not near and approaching the center line. R 28.1706 Rule 706, Found on page 17 When crossing at places other than a marked crosswalk, pedestrians must yield the right of way to all vehicles. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor

Nicholas Urfe

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 2 p.m.

The city needs to ticket drivers who stop *in* crosswalks at stop signs and signals. The routine practice of so many drivers is to ignore the line and stop in the crosswalk. The law requires that you advance into the crosswalk only after coming to a complete stop and verifying that it is clear.

Nicholas Urfe

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:57 p.m.

Dangerous driving becomes a huge problem when they drive without paying attention to their surroundings or the law. Coincidentally enough, this happens downtown more than anywhere else in Ann Arbor.

schlomo

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.

What ever happened to stop, look, and listen....take the headphones off and stop texting while crossing the street. Many people I observe don't even try that quick step hustle while crossing, as if they have the right to saunter across the street, a privledge that comes with the right to be in a crosswalk.

BHarding

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:45 p.m.

Pedestrians have the right of way, but are foolhardy if they don't look both ways. You can't expect to step out in front of a moving car without consequences. The car needs the time and space to stop for you. If you haven't allowed it any time, whose fault is that?

annarboral

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:39 p.m.

All of downtown is dangerous for pedestrians and bicycles. However, the reason is their almost total lack of awareness of the world around them. Bicycles flash back and forth with no regard for common sense much less traffic laws. Pedestrians immersed in their cell phones and music headphones blissfully walk into traffic (red or green lights) without even looking. At night the people & bikes are cleverly disguised in dark colors so that their stealth movements into the street are almost invisible. It's a true miracle that someone isn't killed every day.

chapmaja

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.

I personally think these crosswalks should be designed as regular traffic lights at intersections are. A pedestrian hits the button to activate the light. This controls two signals, one for the pedestrian and one for the traffic on the roadway. The roadway signal goes from green to yellow to red. Once the traffic signal turns red, the signal for the pedestrian turns to walk, and allows the pedestrian to cross traffic. It would also include a countdown timer for the pedestrian to cross the road, before the signal returns to green. This would encourage walkers to walk at a more timely pace. I would also have a motion sensing detection device to detect pedestrians still in the crosswalk. Once the timer expire, and the motion detection device both indicate the crosswalk is clear, then traffic gets a green light. This would be a precursor to what will eventually be coming with traffic control lights. Eventually you will see a series of cameras and other traffic flow detection equipment which will use real time traffic flow data to control traffic lights. It is already being done in some places.

Katherine Griswold

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.

Ryan, Would you please interview a professional engineer (P.E.) with transportation engineering expertise? Opinions may make for interesting reading, but a professional engineer is more qualified to discuss crash statistic and evaluate our local crosswalk ordinance.

Ryan J. Stanton

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.

I actually saw a pedestrian get hit by a southbound vehicle while crossing in a crosswalk along the north side of Huron Street yesterday afternoon. I believe it was either at Main or Fourth — I'm forgetting now. It wasn't that serious, though, and I doubt it ended up being reported. Basically what happened was a car that should have stopped before reaching the crosswalk/red light came up a little too fast, obviously didn't see the woman in the crosswalk soon enough, and sort of bumped into her before stopping. It seemed to really startle the pedestrian, who was pushed forward and thrown off balance but didn't fall down. She gave the driver a kind of "what the heck?" look and kept walking. I see situations all the time downtown where motorists, pedestrians and bicyclists alike aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around them. Convincing everyone they should be very alert while walking, biking and driving would be nice if we could do that. But it's probably safe to assume at all times there is someone around you — either in a car, on a bike or walking — who isn't very alert or is fixated on a cell phone, so be cautious.

Basic Bob

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.

when i wait for pedestrians before making a right turn downtown, too things happen. oncoming traffic makes a left turn in front of me, blocks the entire intersection, and wait there for the pedestrians to clear the lane. the pedestrians avoid the curb so they can immediately begin crossing in front me without stopping at the corner. you might as well just cross diagonally.

Tru2Blu76

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 12:42 p.m.

Eh, both driver inattention and pedestrian inattention are brought up in comments. Wouldn't this at least suggest that GREATER ATTENTION on the part of both drivers and pedestrians is a "good thing?" Other: anyone who regularly walks / bikes downtown knows this - gridlock periods on Main Street between William north to Huron, are a major cause of driver over-focus on just getting through each traffic light / intersection. And that applies especially if the driver is making either a right or left turn. It's EXACTLY when the yellow caution lights are on when drivers try to take advantage of that brief ("precious") few seconds to make their move. Pedestrians: don't help much either - they're overconfident about the slow traffic, assuming they will be seen by the stopped /waiting drivers and that they have plenty of time to saunter across the street (while the lights are "in their favor"). It's even worse during U of M student move-in /move-out periods. Then there are the semi-panicked parents driving around in totally unfamiliar Ann Arbor. They devote a lot of their driving time to just finding "the right street" or "right direction" to drive in. To call them "distracted" is an under statement. I think it would be good to have a "Driving and Walking in Ann Arbor" manual. It should consist mainly of cogent advice that would give drivers and temp residents who're visiting SOME CLUE about what it means to be a driver or pedestrian in this town.

EyeHeartA2

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 12:32 p.m.

What a load of crap. How about accidents/year? Wouldn't that be just a L I T T L E more relevant than some apples and oranges comparison? If this is DATA, I would hate to see her shoot from the hip.

NSider

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 12:09 p.m.

No one seems to have brought up the Limit Line. You remember the Limit Line, right? That big white stripe you are supposed to stop behind (vehicles, motorized, wind driven, steam powered and bicycles) before you turn right on red, or stop at while you wait for the green? In several large cities that have pedestrians, the traffic cops (they typically wear white hats) will ticket drivers for violating right-of-way and in some places gridlock laws. You see, if a vehicles wheels are in front of that line, that vehicle has entered the intersection (hence the concept of a LIMIT). Perhaps if more people paid attention to the limit line, and stopped behind them, then pedestrians would have a fighting chance in the crosswalk, and the drivers would have the opportunity to view and comprehend the intersection before proceeding.

Hmm

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 12:08 p.m.

Look both ways before you cross

Former A2 Resident

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:58 a.m.

Many years ago I was hit by a pickup truck while legally walking across Main Street. The driver ran a red light. Luckily no serious injuries, but it certainly changed my behavior as both a pedestrian and a driver. I assume drivers don't see me when I am a pedestrian and I watch more carefully for pedestrians when I am driving. Everyone, please slow down and watch out for the other guy, pedestrian or driver.

pseudo

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:54 a.m.

and Iwould counsel the Council member that dealing with data that has been reported to the police is dangerously innacruate. Its the only "data" without actual observation you have but its not accurate.

Linda Peck

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:51 a.m.

There is no way to sugar coat what has been happening on our fast roads at these pedestrian crossings. They are too new, people are driving too fast, and they are a bad design. Statistics from past years don't seem to apply to these recent tragedies. There are factors here that are not being addressed, and enforcement of traffic laws is one of them.

pseudo

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:50 a.m.

love the data - think the analysis is a bit faulty. most accidents = highest concentration of people and cars and that would be downtown. where people are dying? less density(fewer incidents), higher speeds, mid-block crossing (with or without cross walk) and no the solution is not to slow the major commute routes down. I just turned down a job in dt a2 because getting to the interview was such a huge pain.

Don

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:49 a.m.

remove the flashing crosswalks as they are dangerous and unnecessary. Every time I come up to one, i wonder what person behind me is going to plow into me. also on stadium where lane transition down two one lane from two. makes driving more stressful, and dangerous. you folks should quite screwing with the roads and the crosswalks. They where much better before you needed to install crosswalks and bike paths everywhere. Now bikers and flashing crosswalks rule our driving lives. it sucks. while i like most of what our local politicians have done, these to areas scream of need for political turnover- if any one decent will run.

SonnyDog09

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:48 a.m.

The most dangerous intersections for pedestrians are downtown. And where are the most pedestrians? Downtown. I don't know how you do it, Holmes!

Craig Lounsbury

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:43 a.m.

When i am in pedestrian mode my default setting is no driver sees me. A corollary to that is being right is little consolation if I get hit by a car.

Deb Clark

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:33 a.m.

With all due respect to the Councilwoman, I think her statement misses two crucial poins. Drivers downtown drive slower, they have to. And they are, for better or worse, used to pedestrians crossing the street. This is true not only on campus (where I wish UofM would begin a mandatory 'how to cross the street' seminar for all in-coming Freshmen) but also pretty much anywhere Kerrytown, to Main Street, to Liberty/State, etc. Drivers on Plymouth Road, however, drive starting from 35mph to 40mph and much frequently faster. They are not used to the crosswalks, they have only been there for ca. 1 year, I believe. So the fact that stats ending in 2012 show that downtown was the most dangerous zone for pedestrians does not surprise me, I strongly suspect Plymouth Road's figures (especially when figuring in near-accidents) will be distinctly higher the next time these numbers are crunched. More importantly - the statement distinctly gave me the impression of justifying the crosswalks and not addressing the problems with them. And that this comes a mere 2 weeks after a young lady has died, I find distasteful in the least. I would have hoped council had the tact to perhaps first examine closely what is wrong with the crosswalks. Many other commenters have addressed this issue so all I will point out is this - a flashing yellow light means caution, not stop. Of course pedestrians have the right of way and of course they should look before they cross. Of course drivers should yield and be not speed. However, unless and until we can guarantee that every driver driving in Ann Arbor streets realizes that flashing yellow means stop for pedestrians, these tragic accidents and near accidents will continue to happen. I only wish one of our elected officials would have the decency and temerity to own that bad decision (making the lights yellow and not sufficiently educating the public) and work on rectifying it.

rutrow

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:29 a.m.

It should be so easy: always know your surroundings and go when it is safe to do so, and if you're driving, be very very aware and vigilant, although not to the point of dangerous hesitations and unpredictable patterns to your driving. It is pedestrians who are far more able to break stride and/or alter their trajectory, so ordinances that demand that cars do just that are actually dangerous. Giving the pedestrians the right-of-way has its merits and problems. The problem that sticks out the most is the dangerous presumption that cars are going to stop if you just walk out in front of them. Another consideration ought be time of day. At 3 in the afternoon it is urgently essential that opportunity to cross (hence the crosswalks) be provided for those on foot or walking bikes, but at 1 am, for instance, the best solution is the good old-fashioned "look both ways and then cross". If some jerk comes out at you suddenly, while crossing at night, going fifteen over the limit, that hardly reflects on the other drivers who don't do that, and those other drivers need not be penalized.

grye

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:24 a.m.

Pedestrian safety begins with the pedestrian; no if, ands, or buts about it. If the pedestrian does not look out for their own safety, no law in the world will preclude a driver from doing the wrong thing. You want real pedestrian safety at crosswalks? Put big metal poles in the street that extend up when a pedestrian is in the crosswalk. This will keep any car from inadvertently entering the crosswalk.

ssilver72

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:23 a.m.

The article doesn't say much about the pervasive attitude by most pedestrians these days who studiously ignore the traffic conditions at any given time. They seem to believe they exist in a bubble which is impervious to any and all contact with the outside world. It goes beyond a 'generational attitude'; although it does seem that most folks under the age of about 30 have lost the self-preservation instinct most of us learned growing up in the '50's and '60's. This attitude is reinforced by the City's approach to traffic control/management. I'm not surprised that pedestrians are having problems; after all they are putting themselves at risk by not paying close enough attention to their surroundings.

Bcar

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:19 a.m.

The term "Dead Right" seems to come to mind. One must ultimately be responsible for their own safety.

nicedoggy

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:10 a.m.

Crosswalks won't fix stupid. You can be dead right.

uabchris

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:48 a.m.

438 accidents, thats disgusting. Michigan has an aggresive driving problem...I see it on a daily basis. Drivers need to relax, pay attention, and slow down!

racerx1909

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:39 a.m.

While Sabra Briere's statistics are impressive, it is the same metaphor one can use for roundabouts replacing traditional 4-way intersections to keep traffic moving. That a relatively few, higher speed/greater injury accidents, are replaced by a greater number of "fender benders" in which there is rarely injury. The tragedy is that people come to great harm where these crosswalks are placed in the midst of flowing traffic which has an increasingly distracted driver populace. We can choose to continue to ignore the reality and hang our hats on legality or we can eliminate these and have pedestrians walk 1/4 mile to the nearest intersection and cross like in most populated areas.

a2grateful

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:31 a.m.

Noble, vital laws are deemed useless by those that ignore them, as well as by those that choose not to enforce them, in equal manners.. The mayor and his crew are "comfortable" with current levels of public safety enforcement, in word and deed, so we can continue to expect to see terrible results for pedestrians. Adding layers of local safety law make nothing safer, especially when the safety laws are devised by politicians and not traffic engineers. Local ordinances, creating confusion for many motorists, add to the safety problem. To add safety for our pedestrians: 1) Enforce the state law with vigor and biting penalty. 2) Remove confusing local laws from the books. 3) Remove crosswalks from four lanes at non intersections. 4) Remove pedestrian-obscuring vegetation and signage from pedestrian islands.

deputydwag

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:28 a.m.

Enforce the laws for everyone. Pedestrians who routinely ignore the don't walk sign( I've done that) or step out into traffic when the auto traffic has green light, autos that speed to beat the light, bikes that don't follow any laws to my knowledge, etc. ( Sorry list is too long) I think that as our society moved from the mind set of "what am I responsible for in my community and to others" to a mind set of " I am the most important and entitled and get out of my way", we are reaping the fruits of that cultivation. Remember the City has an obligation to provide basic services for public safety. Maybe the City should redirect some of those "optional" allocations they budget for to making everyone aware of what their responsibilities are. And fund it at the expense of those who don't. (tickets) But enforce it across the board. Peds, Bikes, Autos- no one gets a pass. Would only take a week of that to yank everyone's chain and could be done occasionally without announcing when it was occurring.

TheDiagSquirrel

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:26 a.m.

Pedestrian right of way becomes a huge gray area when they run out into traffic without paying attention to their surroundings. Coincidentally enough, this happens downtown more than anywhere else in Ann Arbor.