skz

Wed, Aug 28, 2013 : 5:35 a.m.

I am talking about Dobrusin. While I admire your comments here generally, you do not seem willing to criticize a "rabbi" who never once mentions Torah publicly but who does seem exquisitely concerned that, for example, turning on a sprinkler would infringe on the First Amendment rights of Jew haters, including Herskovits and Saffold (a Muslim convert). What kind of a rabbi refuses to state clearly that Eretz Israel is Jewish land? Torah makes this clear. The mosques assert otherwise. Dobrusin seems to take their side. There are plenty of legal and mildly illegal things that can be done. Note that civil disobedience is "illegal," but this is a rabbi who will support disobedience only on behalf of Islam. Legally, what's good for a synagogue is good for a mosque. Where does Saffold "pray"? H. Herskovitz lives in the area. I presume he works somewhere too. Judaism is not a pacifist religion. What this "rabbi" teaches is not Judaism.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 6:41 p.m.

Which rabbi are you talking about, Dobrusin, Levy, or someone else? And, the problem absolutely is the Herskovites. Short of G-d forbid, doing something illegal, what can the congregation do to get these fanatical antisemites and their hate gauntlet away from their synagogue? Certainly not give in to the ridiculous blackmail demands of the Herskovites. On the other hand, of course, the attacks of neo-Nazis shouldn't go unanswered. It's always a fine line between publicizing the hate speech of extremists by exposing them for what they are and ignoring them to deny them any more of a platform than all those that they have already hijacked. In treading that tightrope, I direct your attention to a website that tells you all you need to know and more about this fanatical band: http://www.hvcn.org/info/feh

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 6:30 p.m.

And your point is? Shall we now also start quoting all the passages that in the Jewish scriptures that give Israel the right to claim all of the historic Land of Israel from the Mediterranean across the Jordan and including Transjordan or the much more recent Balfour Declaration that promised the same territory for a Jewish homeland? You are also trying to play it both ways, using ancient transgressions, which were already paid for to justify what is possibly your concept that the Jews now have no right to any of the Land of Israel. Which is it, Bugmenot?

Albert Howard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 2:58 p.m.

Selah

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 5:30 p.m.

Are you actually comparing a racist and antisemite (see his blogs if you don't believe me; read his comments esp. at http://www.hvcn.org/info/feh/ and particularly at http://www.hvcn.org/info/feh/quotes.htm and http://www.hvcn.org/info/feh/blog.htm) like Henry Herskovitz to the great civil rights leader and humanist (BTW, a strong supporter of Israel, too) Martin Luther King, Jr? What an absurd comparison. Why not throw in Fred Phelps and compare his gadfly qualities with what Dr. king said and equate them, too?

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 5:18 p.m.

And your point is, Bugmenot? Do you support these ridiculous demands?

Michael Shalev

Fri, Aug 23, 2013 : 12:51 a.m.

The answer of Board of Directors of Beth Israel Congregation to this generous offer must be along the lines of the counteroffer of Steven Colbert to Donald Trump... http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/420539/october-24-2012/donald-trump-s-october-surprise

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 5:16 p.m.

Rabbi Dobrusin owes nothing to Mr. Herskovitz. Short of taking aggressive and drastic action, which would be illegal, what else could he have done to manage this situation that was thrust involuntarily on the synagogue by an egotistical fanatic? The responsibility for this debacle rests uniquely and solely on the shoulders of the carriers of the messages of hate bandied in front of Beth Israel every Saturday and _not_ on those being besieged and harassed.

Fred Pettit

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:37 p.m.

While Herkovitz and his organization maintain the right to protest (futile albeit in my opinion). He and they have NO right whatsoever to demand anything of anyone or any organization. His protest are as badly misplaced as resolutions by city council that have nothing to do with managing the city of Ann Arbor or serving its citizens and taxpayers.

1bit

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 12:57 a.m.

My assumption is that they recognize the importance of free speech and the ability to peacefully protest, even when that opinion may be unpopular or against prevailing laws/doctrines. I think you already know the answer to your question but, if not, I think you can now surmise it.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 5:10 p.m.

How many times are you going to give your exact same reference? I repeat, nothing justifies such a blatantly antisemitc placard that basically belittles the worst genocide in history. Antisemitism enabled Nazism and Nazism enabled antisemitism. Such ideas as are carried on the signs of the synagogue stalkers are used only to try to de-legitimize the Jewish State in a manner not all that unlike the way Nazis carried out an all-out-war to dehumanize then eradicate all Jews from the face of the earth. Such a nefarious and spurious idea that is printed on the JWP&F placards has no place in civilized discourse, but whoever said that what Henry Herskovitz and his followers are doing bears any resemblance to civility or discourse?

Nicholas Urfe

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 6:57 p.m.

I would answer but my comment would allegedly be deleted.

skz

Wed, Aug 28, 2013 : 5:45 a.m.

Reverend, please stop misstating Sunnah. Mo was a murderous warlord. The only vaguely decent parts of his statements and the Koran have been abrogated. Contradictory passages in the Koran and Hadith are not reconciled as in Christianity. Stick to your area of expertise.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 5:03 p.m.

And, BTW, Colorado Sun, you really oversimplify what happened in 1948: The UN partitioned what had been (British) Mandate Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab. The Jews agreed, the Arabs rejected it, and five heavily armed Arab countries near Israel with far superior numbers and armed forces immediately attacked the nascent and then poorly militarily equipped Jewish state. At the same time, Israel asked its Arab citizens to stay while the Arab governments of those attacking Israel told them to get out while they "drive the Jews into the sea" after which they promised them they would get all of the land. Of course, there were some expulsions of Arabs by Israelis, but don't forget the hundreds of thousands of Jews who had resided in Arab and/or Moslem lands in the Middle East and North Africa for centuries who were summarily and violently expelled from their former homelands by their Arab fellow citizens upon the declaration of the Israel's independence. Anyway, against truly overwhelming odds, the new Jewish state repelled its enemies. The several million Arabs who remained in Israel gained full citizenship with equal rights with the other citizens of Israel. As in the US, yes, there is a way to go before Arab Israelis are treated completely fairly—just as civil rights still has a way to go in the US for the realization of full racial equality—but on the whole, Arabs in _all_ other countries of the Levant can only dream of the kind of freedom their coreligionists and/or co-ethnic brothers and sisters enjoy in the world's only Jewish state. Just take a look at the horror show next door in Syria and at what's happening in Egypt for contrast and a look at _real_ naqbas!

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 4:56 p.m.

Colorado Sun wrote, "Do you believe a counter-demonstration or encouragement of a dialogue between Rabbi Dobrusin and Mr. Herskovitz may be fruitful? It was Dobrusin's refusal to allow Mr. Herskovitz to address the congregation about his observations in the West Bank that led to this 'vigil' movement." Nonsense. Rabbi Dobrusin and Beth Israel have the absolute right to tell Mr. Herskovitz to buzz off. The latter has absolutely no right to enter the sanctuary and harangue the congregants. Would you be so willing to support the "right" of a Klansman to enter a Black church to "witness" to them on the "joys" of White supremacy? And anyone who has ever tried to hold a "discussion" with Mr. Herskovitz will quickly realize that it is impossible to dialog with someone who can only spout per-recorded bumper sticker monologs. There are limits to "free" speech. Mr. Herskovitz crossed that boundary a long time ago. What about the First Amendment rights of the congregants at Beth Israel to attend a worship service (and that includes ingress and egress from the synagogue building) free from harassment and facing a gauntlet of hate speech week-after-week, year-after-year?

Colorado Sun

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 9:23 p.m.

Your post and your letter bring up fine points, but consider the following, Reverend: Are you aware that Mayor Hieftje met briefly with Henry Herskovitz when his group was protesting outside the 60th anniversary gala of Israel's independence sponsored by the Jewish Federation of Washtenaw County? That independence holiday is known as Nakba (Catastrophe) Day by Palestinians - many of whom who were dispossessed of their homes at gunpoint by Jewish militants in 1948. Hieftje had been a guest of the celebratory anniversary gala. You fail to mention any Palestinian-Americans who have served America. A Palestinian-American sits in the U.S. House from Michigan (Justin Amash). Another sits in the Michigan House (Rashida Tlaib). Your efforts will go nowhere as JWPF has a First Amendment right to protest. In fact, it brings attention to the JWPF that they crave. Do you believe a counter-demonstration or encouragement of a dialogue between Rabbi Dobrusin and Mr. Herskovitz may be fruitful? It was Dobrusin's refusal to allow Mr. Herskovitz to address the congregation about his observations in the West Bank that led to this vigil movement. I disagree with the vigils but think that counter-arguments or constructive dialogue trumps condemnation of the vigils as an effective tool toward resolution. Think about these things, Reverend.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 4:47 p.m.

Actually, the headline is very accurate. "Religious leaders call for end to anti-Israel protests outside Jewish synagogue in Ann Arbor." What's inaccurate about that? It is precisely what they demand and anyone who is not an extremist--whether they support Israel or don't--has long ago also said.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 3:31 p.m.

The City Council only condemned the type of action, but didn't specifically name the group and place being besieged. I guess it's time they do that although that will also give Mr. Herskovitz more of the publicity he so desperately seeks. Why else would be so happy to proclaim that he is the most hated man in Ann Arbor? Justifiably, too. It takes a special kind of psyche to enjoy so much enmity directed at him and alienate even his neighbors. Instead of using Newspeak to name his group, I recommend calling it what it actually is: Fomenters of Friction or Disseminaters of Discord.

Henry Herskovitz

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.

@Brad: Council in fact did condemn the vigils on Oct. 18, 2004 after the Mayor received a politically threatening letter from Dr. Barry Gross. The resolution is entitled: RESOLUTION AFFIRMING FREEDOM TO WORSHIP WITHOUT INTERFERENCE AND CONDEMNING THE PICKETING OF HOUSES OF WORSHIP

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 3:22 p.m.

Why do so many Americans buy goods made in China? Have you stopped doing so, Mr. Urde? If not < I suggest you re-examine your comments about Israel as they are obviously ridiculous and irrelevant. Israel is truly one of America's greatest allies, the only country in the whole Middle East that is a multiethnic, multiracial, multi-religion democracy.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 3:18 p.m.

Paul Pinard's remarks prove that he and the rest of this band of vigil-antis are outright, shameless antisemites and racists. Not only that, but extremely ignorant. Calling Ashkenazim, Jews of Eastern and Central European origin "Nazis" is blatantly antisemitic and racist. Saying that Sephardim, Jews of Iberian origin, are "black" and Ashkenazim "white" demonstrates absolute ignorance, virulent racism and antisemitism and/or deliberate distortion, a common thread amongst the JWP&F cult. This is hate speech and needs to be struck from the record as it clearly violates A2 dot com's comment guidelines. Please remove this and the other racist remarks made by Mr. Pinard and the other commenters here who espouse similar racist and/or antisemitic views. Thank you.

Paul Pinard

Fri, Aug 23, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.

The only neo-Nazis that actually pose a world threat are the ashke-Nazis. If you don't understand this Mick, you need to do some reading. The other classification is 'Sephardic'. Google it "ashkenazi vs sephardic" (essentially means 'white vs colored' Jews)

Nicholas Urfe

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:24 p.m.

Too bad you can't drive by occupied Palestine to see the neo Nazi's over there.

1bit

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 10:25 a.m.

Not all Arabs are Muslim. Not all Israelis are Jews.

BhavanaJagat

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 2:36 a.m.

Thank You Oyxclean for understanding the issue. I also must thank MichU for the response. I am specifically speaking about the two-nation theory, a state for Jews and a state for Muslims. Jordan is not the issue here. If Muslims accept the existence of the State of Israel and stop their attacks to destroy it, peace will prevail in spite of the numerical superiority of the Muslim population. It needs tolerance and respect for the legitimate aspirations of Jews to seek the existence of the State of Israel.

MichU

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:23 p.m.

If the territories/West Bank/Judaea&Samaria are annexed by Israel, then in a short time Jewish Israelis will be a minority. Then it will be a choice between democracy/equality of all and theocracy/inequality. About 30 years ago some extremists (fundamentalist Christians, I believe) tried blowing up the Dome of the Rock shrine but were thwarted by the Israelis. As a student studying abroad I noted that every Israeli I spoke with about the incident thought the attack was absolutely CRAZY. It was only among Americans (one the daughter of a reverend) who thought the plot was a good idea. How far have we come since extremists assassinated Yitzhak Rabin for having the vision and sense to make a lasting peace? Those who would dehumanize and expel others just so their particular vision becomes a reality are among other things, short-sighted. While the ongoing protest isn't the best way of going about making a positive change (and causes some to become more narrow in their thinking), it might compel those writing comments to gain a broader view of the situation. And if you're talking about ALL of mandate Palestine, BhavanaJagat, you must be including (Trans)Jordan, am I right? Yikes.

oyxclean

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:34 p.m.

I agree. There are many muslim countries. Why are the Jews not allowed to have one?

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 9:37 p.m.

Again and again, there is absolutely no justification for such a hate-driven, spurious sign, And regarding those who think it's perfectly OK to occupy Native American land because the way Europeans settled this land was with great risk and disingenuously say Jewish settlers had "risk-free" access to the Land of Israel is almost comical in its absurdity. Israel as a country is certainly as legitimate as the US, maybe even more so, because of the three=thousand year plus continuous habitation and connection to the land of Israel. When the discrepancy on what constitutes "occupation" is pointed out to Henry Herskovitz, he'll say it doesn't matter because the colonization of America happened before he was born while Israel became a sovereign nation again in year 1 or 2, A.H., i.e., 1948. Boys and girls, can you say hypocrisy and backing oneself into a corner with a ridiculous argument?

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:15 p.m.

I think the main point of that sign is to point out that Zionism has existed as a politically organized movement (1896) since well before the Holocaust (by some 40+ years) and that their slogan from the Balfour Declaration negotiations (ca. 1916-1919) was "give the land without a people to the people without a land." This kind of planning makes any comparisons of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the Native American-European collision way off base, the early zionists knew what they were attempting was gonna be unpopular and require a lot of violence, where as the early European explorers were facilitating the natural discovery of half a planet's surface and themselves were at great risk of never returning.....

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 7:34 p.m.

The sign was "Zionism enabled Nazism" For the story of the this sad chapter in Jewish/Zionist history, read the Transfer Agreement" by Edwin Black, 1984, 1999, afterword by Abe Foxman, Dialog Press, Washington D>C. There is a copy in the Ann Arbor District Library.

M-Wolverine

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 6:05 p.m.

"Blacks enabled slavery." Now I'm sure your immediate thought on reading that was a nuanced look at how Africans sold their fellow blacks to white men into slavery in the United States. Not a more obvious assumption of what it ludicrously and hatefully would mean.

Ann Arbor Resident

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:24 p.m.

A three-word sign, held outside a Jewish house of worship and aimed at motorists passing by, does not convey this complex message. Instead, it conveys that the Jews were responsible for their fate at the hands of the Nazis. I am certain you can think of many analogies where one could produce equally hate-mongering slogans -- which if explained in a lengthy dialogue might seem perfectly reasonable, or at least reasoned -- but would have the effect of uninformed hate-mongering if held in view of motorists outside locations where other minority groups congregate. Given the history of anti-Semitism, the sign in question, held up to an audience that in most cases will take it in and drive on by, is likely to engender more of the same. The laudable goal of promoting Palestinian rights does not, in my view, justify this incitement of anti-Semitism.

Paul Pinard

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 9:05 p.m.

You are so right CounterMalice, I am going to change my views now, Israel is a shining beacon of peace......

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 9:24 p.m.

Paul Pinard: I think you're harboring a delusion that anyone is "waking" to your extremist views. As a true democracy that treats its minority population far better than any Arab or Moslem country treats even its _majority_ residents, to say "that Israel is one of the greatest threats to world peace" is absolutely specious. So, what does that make Islamic terrorists, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban? The greatest _advocates for_ peace? What an absurd set of claims! Israel is more ethnically diverse than the entire rest of the Middle East and the Moslem and Arab worlds in general. Israel is not waging war on its minority religions and ethnicities as is Iran (and Syria on its majority!). Your comments about Jews being white and Arabs black as the perception of most Americans is actually a racist remark in itself. Every race, ethnicity, color, and religion make up the fabric of Israel and its Jews. You and Mr. Herskovitz constantly keep raising the same disproved arguments. For example, Israel long ago apologized for the unintended bombing of the USS Liberty, and the US long ago accepted that apology. Apparently you and Mr. Herskovitz won't ever. And, Rachel Corrie had no business being a war zone where she put herself at risk. All evidence points to her tragic death as being an accident. Had she not been so inflamed with hatred of Israel by her cynical ISM handlers who were deliberately interfering with Israel digging up and covering over tunnels that were used to funnel weapons to use against Israeli civilian targets, she might be alive today. And finally, your remark about Jews profiting from the terrible mass murder at the World Trade Center—an attack by the Islamic extremists I don't see you condemning as the true major threat to world peace—is beyond the pale! This is true hate speech and that's part of what Mick and others who are sane and balanced in their thinking, condemn as disgusting, for it's actually far worse than that.

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:17 a.m.

Anytime I stand with Henry, Mick, I count the responses. I always have three categories, definitive positive, definitive negative and ambiguous. There are always at least 20-30 responses. I would say average negative responses around 3-4 and positive (usually several quick honks in succession accompanied by a thumbs up) anywhere from 18-24. There are always a few that I can't determine the intent. BTW which part of my post is most disgusting to you?

Mick52

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:35 p.m.

Tell us Paul exactly how you know 80-90% of passing motorists responses are positive. Do that many people honk? Stop and say something? (that would cause quite a traffic jam). Are you watching closely to see if the honkers are giving you the bird? That is how I would get your attention. Your post is disgusting.

HBA

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 7:54 p.m.

Your information is inaccurate. If you really want the facts, why not gove Rabbi Dobrusin a call? Or perhaps it's more convenient--as is for Henry Herskovitz--to publicize only one side of the story.

ContreMilice

Tue, Aug 27, 2013 : 4:38 p.m.

Paul Pinard wrote: "zionists [sic] knew what they were attempting was gonna be unpopular and require a lot of violence, where as the early European explorers were facilitating the natural discovery of half a planet's surface and themselves were at great risk of never returning...." What kind of twisted "logic" is this? The European colonizers of the Americas were great "heroes" taking risks for what? "Enlightening" and "civilizing" the "savages?" And the Zionists settlers of Israel had some kind of "risk-free" easy access to the land of Israel? Who can take such logical inconsistency to try to justify one form of settlement while dismissing another as unjust? Clear prejudice showing! Sorry, but it's hypocrisy, too.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.

Fredmax, point thsi out to Henry Herskovitz, and he'll say it doesn't matter because that happened before he was born while Israel became a sovereign nation again in year 1 or 2, A.H., i.e., 1948. Boys and girls, can you say hypocrisy?

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:46 p.m.

I think the main point of that sign is to point out that Zionism has existed as a politically organized movement (1896) since well before the Holocaust (by some 40+ years) and that their slogan from the Balfour Declaration negotiations (ca. 1916-1919) was "give the land without a people to the people without a land." This kind of planning makes any comparisons of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the Native American-European collision way off base, the early zionists knew what they were attempting was gonna be unpopular and require a lot of violence, where as the early European explorers were facilitating the natural discovery of half a planet's surface and themselves were at great risk of never returning....

LindaJ

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:19 p.m.

FredMax: As I understand it, even the Native Americans came here from somewhere else. Is there any identifiable ethnic group that has not moved from its place of origin to another and displaced one or more other ethnic groups in the process?

Davidian

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:50 p.m.

You lost. Get over it.

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:15 p.m.

the challenge is how to live together in mutual respect, not displace, oppress or exile anyone.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.

Maye he didn't say it right, but when Greek churches prominently display the flag of Greece; Scandinavian churches fly the flags of either Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, and/or Iceland; and Episcopalian churches display the flag of England (all of which have Christian crosses on them, by the way), what they are doing goes unchallenged by Mr. Herskovitz and his supporters, but somehow display of the Israeli flag (done at most synagogues), which also bears religious symbols of Judaism is a major "crime" that must be stopped or else...or else...or else, there will be hate-driven picketing going on for seemingly, forever. YPboyWRheart makes a great point, but could have stated it a little better.

Brad

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:49 p.m.

I didn't even know the Christians had a flag.

Brad

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:30 p.m.

You'll need a Panderspeak to English dictionary to decode that one.

fjord

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 10:29 a.m.

You have every right to disagree with their protest, but in America they have every right to mount the protest.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.

(Fellow) Ann Arbor Resident, I agree with you. There is absolutely no justification for this hateful sign. Just look at all the hemming-and-hawing and continued laying of the blame on the victims for this most awful of genocides in history by those who try to justify this over-the-top sign. The whole "Jewish" Witnesses for "Peace" and Friends M.O. is to de-legitimize the world's only (very tiny) Jewish state any way they can. And by attacking Jews in their house of worship, they not only prove what Judeophobes they are, but how out-of-touch with any part of mainstream America, even mainstream Ann Arbor, they are. Their message and their actions are not rational, but they are frighteningly similar to what the Nazi Brownshirts did in the 1930s and early 1940s when they also surrounded Jewish establishments with hate-filled signs and then did a lot worse. To falsely claim that Zionism gave birth to Nazism is an outrageous accusation that fits the JWP&F propaganda efforts to a T.

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:19 p.m.

I think the main point of that sign is to point out that Zionism has existed as a politically organized movement (1896) since well before the Holocaust (by some 40+ years) and that their slogan from the Balfour Declaration negotiations (ca. 1916-1919) was "give the land without a people to the people without a land." This kind of planning makes any comparisons of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to the Native American-European collision way off base, the early zionists knew what they were attempting was gonna be unpopular and require a lot of violence, where as the early European explorers were facilitating the natural discovery of half a planet's surface and themselves were at great risk of never returning..

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 7:33 p.m.

The sign was "Zionism enabled Nazism" For the story of the this sad chapter in Jewish/Zionist history, read the Transfer Agreement" by Edwin Black, 1984, 1999, afterword by Abe Foxman, Dialog Press, Washington D>C. There is a copy in the Ann Arbor District Library.

Mick52

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:37 p.m.

For this reason I am glad they are out there. We can see who they are and it is important to know those who threaten others.

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:59 p.m.

I posted this note earlier, when question of this sign was raised.: The sign, "Zionism engendered Nazism, " is too complex and it hope they no longer promote it. The Zionist movement, at the beginning of Nazi power, opposed the International Boycott of the Nazi government and economy. The boycott had the prospect of breaking Nazi power, before it could consolidate. Without Zionist, that is organized Jewish support, the boycott collapsed. The Zionists opposed the boycott, hoping rather to negotiate with the Nazi government to allow safe passage for all Jews out of Germany to Palestine. They were wrong, and their narrow "nationalist" agenda contributed the absence of unified international resistance to Nazism, and the horrors that followed. The Zionist movement and its politics, and its flag, deserve greater scrutiny.

Lemmy Caution

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:21 a.m.

I do wonder what that sign means to whomever carries it. It is surely meant to be attention-grabbing and I wonder how it might be other than "a smokescreen for the most hateful anti-Semitism ever." Perhaps someone can explain. Is it some kind of historical argument about the stakes of cultural nationalism and political nationalism in 1890s Germany?

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 8:09 p.m.

Great comment, Jay! Is it any surprise that someone with obviously no sense of humor failed to see the satirical irony of your priceless remark?

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:34 a.m.

Do they also display the Communist Chinese flag? Because, if they don't, then your comparison fails entirely.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 8:06 p.m.

Again, no context. The person who supposedly "assaulted" the vigil-ante was an out-of-town visitor for a relative's religious celebration who had a camera forcefully thrust into his face by the supposed "victim." Who's the real assailant here? There is absolutely no evidence to support that the driver in question intentionally swerved or otherwise attempted to attack the synagogue pickets, otherwise, I'm sure he would have succeeded. This obviously bogus accusation was recognized for what it was by the prosecutor, a groundless allegation, which is why it was dismissed. And, since many of the hate signs are illegally placed on vehicles and against traffic signs--they have to actually be held by a protestor to be legal--it is no mystery Mr. Herskovitz's charge of "theft" was dismissed with extreme prejudice. Mr. Herskovitz has also illegally defaced the sidewalk in front of his house with an anti-Israel slogan and offended all his neighbors with his anti-Israel/anti-Jewish flag prominently displayed on his property. You have to wonder about the sanity of someone who so eagerly seeks out and makes enemies of virtually everyone in a moderately tolerant city. I love the way both Mr. Herskovitz and his supporters are always making up stories just like all that they have fabricated to justify an immoral siege of a house of worship. There is absolutely no justification for the synagogue stalkers' actions. As many others have noted, just because it's legal doesn't make it right. How true.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 7:54 p.m.

That's the only thing Mr. Herskovitz occasionally has any "success" with: getting noticed, which is apparently his only real goal. That's egomania, not human rights advocacy.

Michael Shalev

Fri, Aug 23, 2013 : 3:10 a.m.

@Colorado Sun I'm aware of fact that there's no way I would be able to change your mind that State of Israel represents a pure evil in the world. But you can spend a few minutes of your time, instead of wasting it in front of Beth Israel Congregation, reading the article written by Richard Goldstone in 2011 and published in Washington Post. Yes it's the same Goldstone from the Goldstone Report on Gaza War (27 December 2008 - 18 January 2009) http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document." "Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza" while "the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel." "The crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets." "Although the Israeli evidence that has emerged since publication of our report doesn't negate the tragic loss of civilian life, I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes." "I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted."

Michael Shalev

Fri, Aug 23, 2013 : 3:08 a.m.

@Paul Pinard OMG, Really, 9/11 conspiracy theory, come on you can do better than that... The most annoying thing is that the writer, Glen Stanish, identifies himself as a pilot of American Airlines, at least now we know the prototype of Denzel Washington in the "Flight" movie. I hope for his AA passengers, that his absent of ability to distinguish hallucination from reality, doesn't influence his ability to stay "high" in the sky... If you know what I mean

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 4:57 p.m.

This forward written by an American Airlines pilot is particularly eye opening as to Israel's true long term intentions and why the peace process always stalls out.... http://www.bollyn.com/foreword-by-glen-stanish

Colorado Sun

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 12:59 a.m.

@Michael Shalev: The United Nations in its Goldstone Commission Report found credible proof that the Israel Defense Forces committed war crimes and crimes against humanity against Gazans during Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09.

Michael Shalev

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 6:06 a.m.

Gaza Strip - In 2005, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip as part of the Disengagement Plan. All Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip were dismantled, and all Israelis, were forcibly evicted by Israeli security forces. From 2006-2007 more than 600 Palestinians were killed in fighting between Hamas and Fatah, after the Palestinians elections. Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel, which totaled over 3,000 in 2008 lead to Gaza War. No doubt Palestinians prove their desire for peace, let's blame Israel

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:31 a.m.

Entirely ludicrous. You write as if there is no Israeli presence in, or dominance over, the WB and GS, and their societies and economies. Perhaps those Israeli settlers on Palestinian lands should move back to Poland, Russia, and wherever else they came from? No? Ohhhh, ok. Occupation forever, then, I guess.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 7:47 p.m.

"Moderate?" Are you kidding us?! trying to force his will on a whole congregation is just the very beginning of his fanaticism. Either you're making a sick joke or you share Mr. Herskovitz's extreme viewpoints, which are the diametric opposite of anything even vaguely moderate.

MichU

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:49 p.m.

It's not the State of Israel proper that is the issue but the occupation of the lands that were to be a Palestinian State. Without a state of their own the Palestinians of the territories, who are not afforded Israeli citizenship, are not treated with equality. This land captured in '67 has become a burden and a test for living the principle of Rabbi Hillel: "don't do unto others that which you find abhorrent to yourself." Much work has to be done on both sides to make a just peace so that people can live in harmony and justice. Extremists on all sides are the problem.

Mick52

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:41 p.m.

It is Israeli land, if not the country would not have been established. To say it is not is akin to saying we are sitting on land that is not United States land.

fjord

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:52 p.m.

No, more like bulldozers destroying entire blocks of homes, or a military blockade preventing humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza Strip, or Israeli planes firing missiles into residential areas, or the constant encroachment of new illegal settlements on Palestinian (or at the very least, disputed) land. None of this excuses suicide bombers blowing up buses full of civilians, of course, but it's intellectually dishonest to portray Israel as a mere victim in this scenario.

FredMax

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 10:17 a.m.

Understated. You must be talking about something like when a bus full of civilians is blown up by a suicide bomber.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:35 a.m.

Actually, it is over their presence in territory that is not Israeli land. I suppose if you lived there, you would find the fuss somewhat understated.

spaghettimonsters

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:46 p.m.

I hope you down-voters have only done so because you so fervently support free speech, and not because you're hypocrites...

A2Jew

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:37 a.m.

Perhaps they were asked but declined. I note that only one of the other synagogues signed it. Perhaps Beth Israel is the only one that truly does support Israel.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 7:41 p.m.

Robertalanhaber: You really take Herskovitz at his word? There is not a shred verifiable evidence that he was ever a member of Beth Israel, much less that he ever had a Bar-Mitzvah there (or anywhere else for that matter). If there is, please bring it forth for all to see. And, as a private institution, Beth Israel has the absolute right to turn down any speaker they want. What gives Mr. Herskovitz the right to harangue Beth Israel's congregants? Would you be so equally willing for the Ku Klux Klan to send a speaker to sermonize to a Black church, or allow Fred Phelps inside a gay tolerant church to tell its members that they will all rightfully burn in hell for their views? Henry Herskovitz is not the "human rights activist" you would paint him, just an egotistical extremist with a ten-year long vendetta against a particular synagogue. I am just as certain that no other synagogue would ever let him come in to shout his accusations and hate speech at its congregants either. And rightfulness so. As he has expressed solidarity with Holocaust deniers, the Phelps Family cult of haters (who are also avowed antisemites besides being homophobic), and an assortment of Professional Jew haters. BIC is absolutely right to keep the polluted ideas of Henry Herskovitz out of its sanctuary. And, his so-called "vigil" has done nothing but bring the rightful opprobrium of all who are clear-sighted, decent, anti-hate residents of Ann Arbor. He will never get one iota closer to realizing any of his stated goals and his ridiculous demands. Extremists can never accomplish anything good, sensible, or beneficial to humankind. Thus it is with the activities of Fred Phelps, the KKK, Holocaust deniers, and Mr. Herskovitz and his cult of synagogue stalkers.

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:35 p.m.

As I heard the story: When Henry Herskowitz went to Palestine and Israel 10 years ago, and was upset, horrified, by what he saw of Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and wanted to show his photographs and discuss this situation in the Beth Israel Synagogue, where he received his Bar Mitzvah, (recognition as an adult in the Jewish Community) he was told he could not. The discussion was not welcome. He determined to vigil at the Beth Israel Synagogue, until the discussion was permitted. Many things have changed since then in his education and understanding, especially, according to him, seeing the Synagogue as part of the political establishment of Zionism and the Israeli State, symbolized by the Israeli flag, quite apart from, or perhaps integral to its function as a religious/spiritual institution.. In my opinion, the Beth Israel Synagogue, as well as the whole Jewish Community, and its other institutions would all do well to welcome this discussion, and declare themselves supporting equal rights for Palestinians. They should have done so 10 years ago.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.

Hate filled, swastika-festooned signs, blocked-out Jewish stars on flags, screaming placards that accuse congregants of murder and being Nazis and selecting a Jewish house of worship for weekly harassment for ten years _isn't_ antisemitism? What planet do you live on? Snoopdog is right on the mark.

David

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:10 p.m.

Paul and spaghettimonsters, if the protest were taking place almost anywhere else, it would obviously be directed at the state of Israel, rather than Jews. However, choosing to locate the protest at a Jewish institution rather than a neutral or Israeli institution makes it look like the protesters don't know the difference between Zionism and Judaism.

spaghettimonsters

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:44 p.m.

They do not hate Jews. What a terribly ignorant thing for you to say. They disagree with the policies of the state of Israel. It IS different, and your inability to summon enough intellectual capacity to understand that does not delegitimize their general position.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:39 a.m.

You display ignorance by your inability to view Zionism separately from being Jewish. Also, as a Christian, where is your love for the oppressed Palestinians? Are they no more than stray animals to you?

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:57 a.m.

Not counting abortion clinics, etcetera. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#United_States

MARK

Sat, Aug 24, 2013 : 2:40 p.m.

History does matter and can set tho optics for the present. Unfortunately there is no longer a Roman empire,Franks,Goths or Ottoman Turks to call to account. The current players need to work it out among themselves

Paul Pinard

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 5:41 p.m.

and Mark, if you read into the negotiating history of the Balfour Declaration you will find that the safeguard clause, intended to protect Palestinians from the exact horrors they are experiencing today, was to take precedence over the favor clause which itself was reworded several times to make clear that the Jews were not being given the land in its entirety.....

1bit

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 12:52 a.m.

@Brad: I upvoted your second post. You have a sense of humor, are doomed, or both. The simple fact is that the people who actually live in the region do think that history matters. Even ancient history. That you don't get it is part of the problem and that is exactly to what @HBA was alluding. So you proved their point too. Congrats. @M-W: You can start with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. That's where most of the involved parties trace the beginning of their separate but intertwined histories.

M-Wolverine

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:54 p.m.

Israeli has been around for 3000 years?

Brad

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:44 p.m.

I'm doomed!

1bit

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:47 p.m.

@Brad: You're kidding, right? There are things that happened thousands of years ago that are more relevant to where we are today than anything you or I will ever do. Your post, in fact, proves the adage that "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Brad

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3 p.m.

As if what happened three thousand years ago is germane to today's world.

1bit

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:15 a.m.

@Mark: nice abbreviated look at the last century. You've only got another two or three thousand years to cover.

MARK

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:01 a.m.

1. up tp 1890 sleepy back water of a decaying Ottoman Turk Empire 2. Early 1900's Balfour declaration supporting"Jewish National Homeland" within Palestine 3.WWI Palestinian Arabs back Turks and Germany they lose empire split up British accept the UN mandate to Govern Palestine because they do not want the French to get it 4.Jews organize internationally and get financial support emigrate to Palestine. They buy land from Palestinian Arabs to start Kibbutz which displaces Arab sharecroppers. Palestinian Arabs only organize as families and tribes . Everyone gets mad and they start rioting and killing each other. They both turn on Britain. 5. WWII the Palestinian Arabs again back Germany and lose again. Do not organize as a group. 6.Britain gets tired of the Mandate and starts to pull out but not fast enough so Jewish Terrorists/Freedom fighters blow up the King David Hotel 7. UN partitions the land. Jews take one side Arabs take the other ,Arabs boycott so Jew take what they wish and start a new country 8. 7 Arabs nations attack Israel but cannot organize in a cooperative way because they are too worried about what the other might get so Israel wins 9. Atrocities back and forth and millions of displaced people. That brings us up to today

MARK

Sat, Aug 24, 2013 : 2:43 p.m.

Well it is effective judging by all the responses.

Aimee Smith

Thu, Aug 22, 2013 : 4:06 p.m.

Maybe you should explain to your kids in very clear and specific terms. But you should first educate yourself about what Palestinian kids are subjected to on a daily basis - exile, checkpoints, being targets of IDF shooting and bombing, and a barbaric siege that even restricts medical treatment and medicine for very sick kids. All of that sounds a lot meaner than seeing some people hold up some signs. You know what else is pretty mean? Some of those kids from that house of worship were photographed posing on some of the military equipment used to kill Palestinian kids. Those photographs were proudly displayed on the Beth Israel website. How do you explain that to your kids?

M-Wolverine

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:51 p.m.

Well, spagmonster, it's not "effective" because they've changed nothing.

spaghettimonsters

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:42 p.m.

Why shouldn't a "house of worship" be a site for protest? It's a gathering place. It is effective and efficient to protest at locations where people are present. So...

spaghettimonsters

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:42 p.m.

Israel is (for the majority of congregants) NOT their country. Jewishness =/= Israel. I feel about this as I feel about young people going on the so-called "birthright" trips: it's frankly wrong to equate Jewishness (of ethnicity, religion, cultural exposure, etc.--there are MANY ways to be Jewish) with the state of Israel. And Israel, like the US, is guilty of a great many things which we should all find shameful. Perhaps it would be more "direct" to most if this group protested at an Israeli consulate. But, then, most of US wouldn't see them. We wouldn't have those talks with friends. We wouldn't be "bothered" in that very good, valuable way that we get bothered when people ask us to openly and honestly evaluate things. So: let's call them jerks for pestering Beth Israel. But let's also thank them for modeling good, non-violent, thought-provoking protest (even, yes, if it strengthens opposition to their cause). This isn't about who wins/loses, but about how we have the debate. Let's keep it up.

KMHall

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:44 a.m.

I don't believe that Henry is viewed as persecuting anyone. He is annoying and many find his methods distasteful. I believe he will remain undaunted by our scolding.

Widow Wadman

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:07 a.m.

Thank you for the information about Bob Johnson. This makes me respect him more.

Widow Wadman

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 9:53 a.m.

If there is a motion before Council, then he Mr. Warpehoski would be able to recuse himself at that time. Hopefully Council will not use Council meeting time to insert itself into the matter better Beth Israel and JWPF.

Colorado Sun

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:01 a.m.

Good point. Chuck Warpehoski led a 175-person demonstration in 2009 opposing Israel's invasion of Gaza. He decried the activities of both Herskovitz and the American Movement For Israel - both of whom engaged in competing protests.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:42 a.m.

The comparison to WBC is a false equivalency.

Angry Moderate

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:32 a.m.

Westboro already paid us a visit, as well as the KKK. Nobody died--it's just speech.

David

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:01 p.m.

You've made the most level-headed comment I've seen here. Most of the other commenters seem to be caught up in debating the Israel/Palestine issue. That's not the point. The guy can protest Israel all he wants, it's the location of the protest that's inappropriate, and makes it look less anti-Zionist and more antisemetic.

Nick Treeville

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:41 p.m.

What a bunch of crap.

KMHall

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:39 a.m.

The city didn't suggest the waste of time.

MARK

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:46 a.m.

The are different classes of citizenship in Israel i.e.A,B,C

Harm

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:08 a.m.

And we have different state license plates....I am satisfied that Israel does all it can to provide more rights for Arab Palestinians than they would get from ANY Arab governed country.

Colorado Sun

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:29 p.m.

There are Jewish-only roads, blue license plates for Arabs, and a history of other discimination practiced by Israel against its minorities.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 6:25 p.m.

Jpud: It's more like infamy than fame. And for those of you who still don't believe it, look carefully at Mr. Herskovitz's signs and rhetoric in the press and especially in his vitriolic blogs. He _is_ an unabashed antisemite. And in his case and many others, anti-Zionism is antisemitism is racism whether you like to hear it or not. Espousing the annihilation of one-third of the world's Jews, which is really what Mr. Herskovitz advocates in wanting to eliminate Israel, is the crudest and clearest form of antisemitism. As thus, Mr. Herskovitz advocates genocide, not peace as he cynically calls his group "witnesses" for. This is the same kind of twisiting of words to their opposite meanings that Orwell warned us about in _1984._

Gerry

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:37 p.m.

Implying that someone who has a nuanced position is simply a bigot is usually a good sign that you don't have a logical argument to back up your position. Pathos is relied on when there is no logos.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:44 a.m.

Except, in this case, it is Jews for Anti-Zionism, but who cares about pesky details.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 6:18 p.m.

Pat, again, I agree with your overarching statements all the way, however please stop calling Beth Israel a "church." It's a synagogue; there is no such thing as a Jewish church I respect all religions ans i would never call a Catholic churxch a synagogue, nor a mosque a church, nor a Hindu. Sikh, or Jain temple a "church." Please respect the distinction of the Jewish religion that their houses of worship are not churches. Anyway, you are so right, Pat, this endless spectacle at Beth Israel every Saturday for a decade now is absolute harassment from the "neatly-lettered" signs (Mr. Herskovitz's own language) and the "respectfulness of his "vigils," which hardly masks the pure hate, antisemitic vitriol, and ugliness of his and his cult's abuse of the First Amendment. Not all that different from the KKK, American Nazi Party, or Fred Phelps and his family of haters.

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:48 a.m.

Pat, that's not really a good comparison. The KKK want what most people accept as being bad and wrong. Palestinians, by contrast want what is right and fair. The amount of time there is also not related. They don't hinder traffic into and out of the church. They have a right to be there. The temple has a right to hold services which they do.

Pat

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:40 a.m.

Which part are you supporting? The right to free speech, or the right to freedom of religion? As most people here are saying he has the right to protest, and yet, they glance over Beth Israels right to practice their religious beliefs. That is the second part of the 1st Amendment. To demand that a secular body remove a flag and make political statements borders on ethnic intimidation and hate crime. Yes, one has the right to free speech, but you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. If a Nazi hate group showed up to your church, demanding that you post a picture of Hitler and pray with your right hand held up, would you not be upset? Where do the rights of the church get trumped because of the right of an individual to make demands that violate the right of the church, guaranteed by the same amendment? I believe, that while peaceful (as in not attacking people, etc.), 10 years, at one particular church, and demanding that they remove a flag, and make statements that are political, is starting to cross over the line and in fact borders on a hate crime. To use an analogy, would an African American church be happy if the KKK protested outside every week for 10 years, and demanded certain provisions that go against the belief of the church?

Angry Moderate

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:30 a.m.

How on earth is that a threat?

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:45 a.m.

Absurdly appropriate.

aanative

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:22 p.m.

Yes. It would.

Widow Wadman

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 9:41 a.m.

The change of tone and atmosphere would probably be that his appearance would inflame people. It's not Mayor Hieftje's responsibility to resolve this situation.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:46 a.m.

Wait, wait--we have a road that intersect with a building? That must make for some congestion at rush hour.

Colorado Sun

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:04 a.m.

Agreed. John Hieftje needs to show some leadership. It has been sorely lacking.

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:42 a.m.

I think he was implying that we are trying to keep up with the liberal policies of Boulder Colorado; hence - boulder dash.

Hunterjim

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:49 p.m.

Autocorrect......

Brad

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:29 p.m.

Boulder-dash?

MichU

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:16 p.m.

balderdash.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 6:04 p.m.

Fjord wrote; "Protesting Muslims simply for being Muslims is bigoted and wrong. Protesting at a synagogue over the policies of Israel, while perhaps not the most appropriate place to do so, is a legitimate political protest. Apples and oranges." As Mr. Herskovitz is targeting Jews at a Jewish house of worship on their holiest of days, the Sabbath, the day of rest, and he has signs that are clearly antisemitic, he has expressed his antipathy for Jews many times, defending him and his siege of Beth Israel is disingenuous at best, and your comparison with protestes aimed at Moslems at Islamic centers being wrong while condoning the actions of Mr. Herskovitz at a Jewish house of worship is hypocrisy, plain and simple.

M-Wolverine

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:47 p.m.

So if people want to protest at the Mosque over there because of the policies of Muslim governments and organizations, you'd be ok with that then?

Ryan J. Stanton

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:40 p.m.

Pretty sure Michigan Peaceworks no longer is operational http://www.michigandaily.com/news/michigan-peaceworks-closes

fjord

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:15 p.m.

I'm not sure why you added that under my comment. I support Herskovitz's right to protest.

Colorado Sun

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:20 p.m.

Henry Herskovitz is well-respected in the Palestinian-American community locally and his work is lauded by many civil rights activists. Henry co-founded Michigan Peaceworks, which is a major human rights organization locally. He regularly visits the West Bank to meet with Arabs under IDF occupation.

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:54 p.m.

I certainly agree with your first two sentences. (We each have our list of things we want the city to prioritize). This protest is not a place for City Council.

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 5:57 p.m.

Pat, well said, but please stop calling a Jewish house of worship a "church." It's a synagogue; there is no such thing as a Jewish church although Messianic "synagogues" are really churches, but that's another discussion altogether. I understand and agree with your overall point, but since we're discussing a variety of religions here, _houses of worship_ and not churches is the correct term for all such sanctuaries as it is inclusive and not exclusive. As you are a Catholic, I am sure you wouldn't want someone to call your house of worship a mosque, a temple, or a synagogue, would you?

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:52 a.m.

The flag of Israel does not represent being Jewish. It represents Zionism, which is a political movement, not a religious one. By flying or displaying this flag, they acknowledge support for Zionism, not "Jewishness." Your analogy would be sane if Obama's church (in your fictional and emotionalized representation) posted his picture in a position of prominence and dedicated their service to... Well, whatever it is you are afraid they do, in your mind.

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:40 a.m.

Nice one, JonnyA2. It seems that some people can follow the logic and reason of raising awareness; while others cannot.

johnnya2

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:43 p.m.

No, Pay YOU miss the point completely. ANYBODY can choose where they choose to protest. You do nto get to tell anybody they can only protest where YOU feel it should be done. As much as I despise Westboro Baptist Church, they have every right to protest at a soldiers funeral or at the steps of Congress. I would also say that the GOAL of any protest is to bring awareness to your cause, so if you happen to have the largest or most traveled road near your place of worship, you will more likely get a protest done there. Oh, and for the record how many years has Right To Life protested at Huron Parkway just south of Washtenaw? They have that right, as long as they do not impede traffic or do anything illegal. I have driven past Herskovitz protest and see nothing illegal PERIOD

Pat

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.

No more than Muslims in mosques in Dearborn attacked Catholic churches in Egypt with their money, and yet we aren't standing out their for 10 years protesting about it. Leave the church alone, go target the Embassy which is the political arm of the Israeli government.

MI4Me

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:29 p.m.

Lets generalize shall we then Angry.

Angry Moderate

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:12 p.m.

Oh please. You don't think that Beth Israel congregants support the policies these people are protesting against?

AMOC

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:53 p.m.

KMHall - The connection is support for Palestinians / opposition to Israel's policies.

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:50 p.m.

the relationship?

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 5:50 p.m.

Bob Zuruncol wrote: "Pat, exactly where in Ann Arbor is the Israeli Embassy?" There's a consulate in Chicago. There's the embassy in Washington, DC and Israel's UN embassy is in New York. Just because there isn't a consulate or an embassy in Ann Arbor, why does it maker it right to target a Jewish House of Worship? And Pat, I agree with much of what you say, but please stop calling a Jewish house of worship a a "church." It's a synagogue; there is no such thing as a Jewish church although Messianic "synagogues" are really churches, but that's another discussion altogether. Thank you.

vicki honeyman

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:16 a.m.

Many Jews feel a tie and kinship to Israel which is why it is considered the Jewish State. That is why synagogue's fly the flag of Israel.

Bob Zuruncol

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:32 p.m.

Pat, exactly where in Ann Arbor is the Israeli Embassy?

Pat

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:29 p.m.

The protests are misdirected, they should be targeting an embassy, not a church. It's no more an issue for the council, then it is for Beth Israel. Council shouldn't involve themselves, and Jewish Witnesses should be protesting at the actual cause of their beliefs: the Israeli Embassy.

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:12 p.m.

I replied earlier that other synagogues in Ann Arbor have the Israeli flag flying in their sanctuaries, but it was removed. WHY? Can anyone explain why Herskovitz doesn't target them? Probably because only Washtenaw gets the traffic to make his protest visible.

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:07 p.m.

And the Israeli Flag is displayed at Temple Beth Emeth, Hillel (home of Orthodox Minyan) and at the JCC (home of Ann Arbor Reconstructionist Congregation), yet Mr. Herskovitz doesn't protest there. Why not? In my mind because Washtenaw gets a lot more traffic than Packard, Hill or Birch Hollow.

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:35 a.m.

In regards to Pat's statement. You are right. They both are protected under freedom of speech.

Pat

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 1:22 a.m.

@johnnya2: thank you. You state "It is his RIGHT, and you do not get to decide when he can and can not use that right,". Ok, so what gives him the right to decide that Beth Israel had to remove a flag, and other demands? He gets to protest, and we don't get to decide what he protests about, and yet he gets to decide whether a church can hang a flag on the inside or outside, and place other demands on the church? It is their right, and he does not get to decide. It's in the second part of the same amendment that guarantees him freedom of speech, yeah, that part about freedom of religion. You see, people claim the first part always when they want to ignore or trample the second part. If I don't have the right to tell him he can't protest because it's his right, then by the same argument, he can't tell Beth Israel what they can and can't use in their religious beliefs. Way to many people on here giving certain rights, but ignoring other rights built in to the same amendment. It's always me first, I get to decide. Well Johnnya2, your right, we don't get to decide when it comes to Beth Israel-they do.

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:48 p.m.

johnnya2 I'd give you more up votes if I could. It's hard work (keeping the issues in sight in these whacked out comment conversations) and thanks for hanging in there.

johnnya2

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:36 p.m.

@ John, That has NOTHING to do with the issue before A2City Council. If he wants to protest in favor of ending slavery, he can do it, EVEN if slavery ended over 100 years ago. It is his RIGHT, and you do not get to decide when he can and can not use that right, ESPECIALLY against a church which pays no taxes and infringes on peoples rights every day.

MI4Me

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.

@Danai - yes there is some evidence of marginalization in politics. There are also million dollar mansions in the Nazareth belonging to Israeli Arabs derived from their very successful businesses in farming - supported by the government Ag groups like any other. The people I spoke with wanted no return of Arab rule - none. They liked it as it was with some improvements in politics. They are successful, educated and safe. Go and see for yourself - I did.

Danai

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.

One, as we know all too well here in the U.S., there is a difference between de jure and de facto equal rights. And two, there's much credible evidence that rights of Palestinians/Arabs who are Israeli citizens have been/are being violated.

tori1228

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:45 p.m.

uh, if you like to "focus on Christ" then I don't think Beth Israel is the religious organization for you!

Widow Wadman

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.

Bob, when pastors and priests insert their political views into sermons, I find it very distracting. I go to church to focus on Christ and to learn from the bible.... I think that some religious groups located throughout the U.S. should be more closely scrutinized in regards to how facilities and funds are used when the groups are exempt from paying federal taxes. If the requirements of maintaining tax-exempt status are maintained, then the organizations should not be bothered by the IRS.

Brad

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.

How about I say "fat chance"?

Bob Zuruncol

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.

Churches and synagogues which meddle in politics should lose their tax-free status. Let me hear you say, "amen"!!

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 5:39 p.m.

How many commenting here have actually ever attended a religious service at Beth Israel Congregation? There is no politics inserted into anything at the worship services at BIC, There are prayers of supplication and prayers for peace, sometimes prayers for rain and good harvests along with memorial prayers for the dead. The members of this congregation hold a wide variety of political opinions, which is only natural, but they are not part of the service. Mr. Herskovitz's actions are anything _but_ "reasoned and thought-provoking." They are highly inflammatory, offensive, harassing, hate-driven, extreme in the extreme, and filled with dissembling and prevarication. If you read his blogs and continuous comments, you will see that he is allied with Holocaust deniers and other fanatical antisemites. This is "reasoned?" Anyone who can say that with a straight face either shares Mr. Herskovitz's fanatical outlook or is just plain ignorant.

robertalanhaber

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 12:08 p.m.

The sign, "Zionism engendered Nazism, " is too complex and it hope they no longer promote it. The Zionist movement, at the beginning of Nazi power, opposed the International Boycott of the Nazi government and economy. The boycott had the prospect of breaking Nazi power, before it could consolidate. Without Zionist, that is organized Jewish support, it collapsed. The Zionists opposed the boycott, hoping rather to negotiate with the Nazi government to allow safe passage for all jews out of Germany to Palestine. They were wrong, and their narrow "nationalist" agenda contributed the absence of unified international resistance to Nazism, and the horrors that followed. The Zionist movement and its politics, and its flag, deserve greater scrutiny.

Lemmy Caution

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 5:12 a.m.

thank you.

Ann Arbor Resident

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:47 a.m.

One of the signs says that "Zionism Engendered Nazism." In my view, saying that the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust is not "reasoned." And holding up a sign that says this in big black letters, week after week, for myself and my young daughter to see when we pass by week after week on our way to, in our case, her dance class -- telling us, in effect, that our European relatives deserved what they got when they were killed by the Nazis -- a statement that conveys, more broadly, a deep hatred of the Jewish people (as does the act of protesting outside a Jewish house of worship) -- is anything but "polite." They may have a right to say that "Zionism Engendered Nazism," and to say so by holding up signs outside a synagogue. But it's not polite. It's hateful, and damaging in the extreme to the self-esteem of any child who identifies with the targeted group (here, Jews).

tori1228

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:50 p.m.

no Lolly, they don't "express a view that is reasoned." they express a view that is bigoted, hateful, and factually wrong. the fact that they are quiet and polite doesn't take away from the fact that they are telling vile lies.

Kevin

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:01 p.m.

Awesome. Thanks for some perspective Lolly!

Robert Hughes

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:32 a.m.

Pat, they are easy to find . . . right in front of the temple where they protest. Just go there and protest them, if you feel so strongly. You might also want to read up on the Israeli Palestine situation from a historic perspective.

tori1228

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:44 p.m.

I actually love that idea, Pat.

Colorado Sun

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:02 p.m.

Henry Herskovitz lives in the Fifth Ward ad ran for GOP precinct delegate last election.

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:43 p.m.

HH is pretty easy to find.

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:43 p.m.

Jaime is right. We don't ask the city to denounce an organization's detractors whenever the organization arrives at its 10th anniversary. This is regardless of the politics or obsessions involved here.

1bit

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:55 p.m.

I don't agree with them, but as long as they follow the rules then it's free speech.

westsideguy

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:14 p.m.

I think after 10 years it's just a bunch of nuts wasting their time.

Bob Zuruncol

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:24 p.m.

Yes. Free Speech has a Ten Year license, which cannot be renewed. (oy.)

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:05 p.m.

Yes it is. And if anyone read Mr. Herskovitz' weekly upates you will come to the same conclusion.

Kevin

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:59 p.m.

No.

Paul Taylor

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 4:56 a.m.

"You cannot separate the State of Israel from the religion of Judaism." Um, yes you can. Many Jews do so already.

1bit

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:54 p.m.

"You cannot separate the State of Israel from the religion of Judaism." At least until Israeli Arabs outnumber Israeli Jews.

aanative

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:16 p.m.

Johnny: The congregants of Beth Israel have no more to do with the validity or morality of the Israeli occupation than you or I or any other Ann Arbor resident. And the so-called Witnesses have no validity in relentlessly targeting one house of worship over any and all others.

Colorado Sun

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:06 p.m.

The Jewish flag is properly placed in the bima per recognized protocol in synagogues. The Jewish flag represents the divine promise of a national homeland of a persecuted people. You cannot separate the State of Israel from the religion of Judaism.

johnnya2

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:33 p.m.

@ A2Jew, If you do not like Japanese or German flags at RESTAURANTS (far different than a place of worship), you could protest as well. You are not as devoted to your cause as Mr Herskovitz is. Though I will point out that if a church hung a Nazi swastika flag it would likely be met with the same sort of protests (as are places that insist on flying a confederate flag). I would also point out that Israel CONTINUES to occupy Palastenian land, while Germany and Japan have not been occupying anything in nearly SEVENTY years.

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:15 p.m.

Kevin, as a child of Holocaust survivors, and the grandson of someone who was imprisoned by the Japanese in World War II, I find the German and Japanese flags offensive (even the modern German Flag) shouldn't I be entitled to not have them displayed at restaurants or even in the U of M hospital and North Campus Commons. Clearly not, otherwise free speach would be a joke.

Kevin

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:08 p.m.

That's a slippery slope Pat. I may not agree that the flag in symbol is truly a fair target of the protest, but clearly there's a difference in Israel's role in middle east violence and that of the Irish or Germans. Of course the US and UN may be equally culpable, so perhaps protesting the US flag wouldn't be that far off topic. US out of Israel, US out of Ann Arbor! Works for me.

Pat

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:34 p.m.

So? Take down the Irish flag in front of Conor's? And the German flag in front of Metzgers? If you want to go that far, take down every US and Michigan flag in front of every church in Michigan as churches really shouldn't have any allegiance to any country, is that what we do now?

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.

What gives Henry Herskovitz and his cult the unmitigated gall to issue demands that a private house of prayer give in to his churlish ultimatums? What right does he have to tell Jews or anyone else how to worship, what should adorn their sanctuary or not, and what should be a part of their liturgy or not? His demands are akin to those of hostage takers, i.e., either do as the hijacker, kidnapper, or hostage-taker orders, or those being held hostage will face the consequences, in this case, an unwarranted, inexcusable, unending boorish harassment and interference with their entrance to, and exit from, a house of worship on their holiest days. These are the tactics of an egomaniacal bully, not a reasonable actor. That this shameful expression of "free speech" has gone on this long gives a very black eye to the tolerant city of Ann Arbor where people rightfully speak out against all kinds of prejudice but where it seems OK to boldly demonstrate virulent antisemitism by targeting a Jewish house of worship and its congregants. If the KKK pickets an African-American church brandishing hateful messages on placards because they don't like their prayers, form of worship, the way they dress, or that they maybe address equal rights in sermons or prayers, and that they will keep harassing those worshipers until all their ultimatums are met, will those of you who support Mr. Herskovitz's "reasonable request[s]?" such as Magpie, also then grant that the Klan's requests on a Black church's congregation are "reasonable?" And, would you also be so tolerant of such "reasonable requests," if a mosque were targeted? And the silence of Moslem clergy—I didn't see a single Imam's signature on the good Reverend Rhodenhiser's letter—is very disturbing. It almost seems as if, by their silence, local leaders of Islam approve of Mr. Herskovitz's glaring exercise in intolerance and hatred

OnTheRight

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 6:48 p.m.

@mpope: you seriously suggest the mayor give a speech in front of a house of worship and "bless" it with a biblical quote? So separation of church and state doesn't apply to Ann Arbor government?

Widow Wadman

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:32 p.m.

Magpie, I don't know if this article is completely correct. Perhaps Henry Herskovitz and his group have modified their demands but in the past Henry Herskovitz demanded to speak in front of the Beth Israel congregation. He has no place to make such a demand as he is not a member of the congregation. His demand that the congregation stop flying the flag of Israel is similarly ridiculous. He's not a member of the group. He's welcome to protest on the sidewalk but Beth Israel is not obligated to listen to him.

mpope

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 11:27 p.m.

'... what does the Israeli flag have to do with their religious faith?' it's none of my business (or yours) what the Israeli flag has to do with their faith, is it? flying the Israeli flag inside their sanctuary isn't breaking any laws (yet.) it's their sanctuary. should the protesters stop? yes. Beth Israel is a house of worship and it should be respected as such. should the protesters be forced to stop? no. that they are exercising their freedom of speech in a block-headed way is their right (albeit squandered.) i like Albert Howard's suggestion. The good mayor, along with a few of the religious leaders should gather at Beth Israel and say a benediction. maybe something like this: The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore. Psalms 121:7,8

tori1228

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:32 p.m.

tell you what: as soon as you join the congregation of Beth Israel, you can help decide what's reasonable and what isn't. until then, what you think is not really germane.

johnnya2

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.

@ A2Jew, He has the right to demand it, Beth Israel has the right to say no, and he has the right to continue his protest. Funny how free speech works in this country isnt it.

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:05 p.m.

What right does Mr. Herskovitz have to "demand" anything from Beth Israel. Further, doesn't a house of worship have the right to display whatever their membership tolerates inside? It is not like this flag is publicly displayed for all of Ann Arbor to see.

Pat

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:36 p.m.

So you want to use a political action to condemn a political viewpoint.

Angry Moderate

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.

Yet the Constitution doesn't say "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech for up to 10 years."

KMHall

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:37 p.m.

I think the Mayor disagrees with protesting every week for 10 years.

Tru2Blu76

Sun, Aug 25, 2013 : 9:33 p.m.

There is no "freedom" to threaten and coerce. So you're understanding of the Bill of Rights needs some improvement.

beardown

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:17 a.m.

I have never read or heard anything about the protests being violent or crude in any way. So why would the city council stop them from exercising their right to protest? Why is this even being considered by the council? They lack the power to remove the settlers from Palestine or the ability to remove peaceful protesters who aren't breaking any laws (assuming that is happening). So why waste their time?

A2Jew

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:10 p.m.

Top Cat, are you aware that the group protesting wastes Council's time almost every other week?

ContreMilice

Mon, Aug 26, 2013 : 4:42 p.m.

The flag of Israel with symbols that long predate the modern state—and as several other commenters have correctly pointed out, stands for the Jewish people, also known for millennia as the People of Israel— is flown in virtually every synagogue and many a Jewish institution the world over. A few facts: Practically all houses of worship prominently display foreign flags in their sanctuaries. Episcopal churches all have the flag of England conspicuously on view, and we are clearly not in the United Kingdom but also separated from that country's rule by over 237 years of independence. Greek flags fly in Greek Orthodox churches, Swedish flags in Swedish Lutheran churches, Ukrainian flags in Ukrainian Orthodox and Catholic sanctuaries. I've seen Japanese or Chinese pennants in Buddhist temples, Indian flags in some Hindu temples, etc. Should all those houses of worship therefore be forced to take down their foreign flags? In most US houses of worship, the American flag is also displayed in the pre-eminent position of honor as is the case in Beth Israel. Prayers for the State of Israel are part of the liturgy of most synagogues; these prayers focus on _peace_ not only for Israel but for all the peoples of the Middle East. As usual, Mr. Herskovitz bends facts to try to justify his fabrications and misstatements. What gives Henry Herskovitz and his followers the authority to demand that a private house of prayer give into his churlish ultimatums? What right does he have to tell Jews or anyone else how to worship, what should adorn their sanctuary or not, and what should be a part of their liturgy or not? His demands are akin to those of hostage takers, i.e., either do as the hijacker, kidnapper, or hostage-taker orders, or those being held hostage will face the consequences, in this case, an unwarranted, inexcusable, boorish harassment and interference with their entrance to, and exit from, a house of worship on their holiest days.

Henry Herskovitz

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 2:12 p.m.

@ArgoC: The flag is displayed right on the bima (pulpit) in the sanctuary. Yes, there's a US flag, too, but Ann Arbor is not located in Palestine, and it seems ok to fly ol glory in its own country. And don't forget the "Prayer for the State of Israel" uttered every Saturday right from the Siddur Sim Shalom (1998) p. 149

ArgoC

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:59 p.m.

I think "the Israeli flag signifies the Jewish people" indicates what the problem is. It's a country.

Pat

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:40 p.m.

And St. Patricks in New York has an Irish flag, and there are a lot of churches that display the US and Michigan flag, so what? Our country prints "In God We Trust" on our currency, isn't that a religious statement mixed in with a political statement? If it's not your religion, why does having an Israeli flag, where their religion traces it's beginnings, bother you?

Mousedeva

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:28 p.m.

The Israeli flag signifies the Jewish people and culture, therefore, every Jewish institution has it flying to relate to their history. Even within Judaism one can relate and/or be proud despite their political viewpoint, the flag should not come down in that specific community space. >>>>> "The flag was designed for the Zionist Movement in 1891. The basic design recalls the Ashkenazi Tallit, the Jewish prayer shawl, which is white with blue stripes. The symbol in the centre represents the Magen David ("Star of David"), a Jewish symbol dating from late medieval Prague, which was adopted by the First Zionist Congress in 1897.[1]...the flag of the State of Israel is a widely-acknowledged symbol of Judaism."

Ricebrnr

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.

"the Israeli flag inside its sanctuary" Uh...riiiight....

nvragain

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.

There is a flag of Isreal inside the U of M hospital near the escalators on the east side along with those of many other nations. Do you therefore suggest that the protesters come to the hospital and demonstrate, as your reasoning points, a flag is a political statement.

Pizzicato

Wed, Aug 21, 2013 : 3:55 p.m.

With A2comments' "voter score" at dead zero (not for lack of spirited voting either way), we can now see why the "Israeli-Palestinian" entry in Wikipedia is "highly disputed" and full of "factual errors."

1bit

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 10:45 p.m.

@Chase: you mean Hamas, not Hezbollah. You should also go there sometime if you think Israel's hands are any cleaner and see for yourself.

Chase Ingersoll

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 9:39 p.m.

Palestinians might complain first about the rights that Hezbollah has taken away from them and especially the Palestinian women before they complain about the Israeli's.

Albert Howard

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.

Because of his position and authority in the city of Ann Arbor, if Mayor John Hieftje went to the intersection of Washtenaw and the synagogue and spoke a resolution/declaration blessing over this building and people we would see in a very short time a change of tone and atmosphere over this situation.

Dipstick

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:42 p.m.

What other perspective is that? That the Palestinians don't deserve equal rights?

Jaime

Tue, Aug 20, 2013 : 7:31 p.m.

who says it is a minority view?