Snyder is 'strangling democracy,' participants at pre-graduation rally in Ann Arbor say
Protesters hold up signs and shout slogans at a rally at Pioneer High School preceding University of Michigan spring commencement ceremonies Saturday in Ann Arbor.
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
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“I love animals and I think taking care of them would make a great career,” she told the crowd. “If Gov. Snyder makes these cuts in education, my parents will have to pay a lot more money for me to become a zoologist. My mom and dad are both college graduates, and they want me to go to college. But we’re not a rich family and I have three brothers want to go to college too.”
She added: “If I don’t have a education, how am I going to be a zoologist?
Lexie was one of the most popular speakers this morning at Pioneer High School’s football stadium, where about 1,000 people gathered to protest Snyder’s budget cuts and policies. Snyder is set to deliver the University of Michigan’s spring commencement address across the street at Michigan Stadium.
“My mom told me that my school might not be able to do things like study at the zoo anymore,” Lexie said. “She also told me there might be (more) kids in my class and we (won't) have the proper equipment to let us learn. That’s not right.”
Haslett, Mich. fifth grader Lexie Salazar speaks this morning at a rally to protest Gov. Rick Snyder's proposals.
Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com
Bob King, president of the United Auto Workers union, was a surprise guest at the rally. He criticized Snyder’s proposal to adopt a phased-in tax on pensions.
“People have worked their whole lives and gotten a modest pension and now this governor wants to tax that pension. Is that right?” King said. “What we’re most angry about is all of this is being done to benefit a very small minority.”
Matt Schroeder, president of the Ann Arbor firefighters union, decried attacks on collective bargaining right and cuts to state revenue sharing that he said are forcing cities to lay off firefighters and ask employees to take pay cuts while paying more for health care.
"We are being vilified and bullied by the politicos. We can't stand this any longer," Schroeder said. "People who work for a living deserve a good living."
State Rep. Jeff Irwin and Sen. Rebekah Warren, both Ann Arbor Democrats, spoke at today's rally. Warren criticized the "bad budgets and horrible tax policy" coming out of Lansing and encouraged the crowd to work to recall politicians who don't share their values.
"We have work to do," she told the crowd. "These are not our values."
Elizabeth Axelson, secretary of the lecturers' employee organization at U-M, led the crowd in a chant of "Go blue! Go fairness! Go justice!"
U-M senior graduate Zach Goldsmith, who organized a protest in March against the university’s decision to appoint Snyder as speaker, told protesters that “democracy continues to be strangled.”
“I’ve learned that the moderate Republican Rick Snyder is far from moderate indeed,” Goldsmith said. “His anti-Democratic reactions as governor of our state have ripped away his mask and revealed him for what he is. I’m here to say enough to Gov. Snyder and to say loud and clear, Gov. Snyder does not speak for me.”
Tim Smith, a lecturer in the aerospace engineering program at U-M, was one of the many who carried protest signs at the rally. His sign read "Nerds Against Snyder."
"It's not really something I do, being politically active, but Snyder actually managed to get me to the point of doing it," Smith said in an interview. "I think the thing that really upsets me is the emergency manager law, the idea that by governmental fiat we can override local elected officials and dissolve local government."
Comments
snapshot
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 9:25 a.m.
The tax cut goes to small businesses that are "double" taxed with both business taxes AND income tax. Protesters don't want to pay taxes on lucrative pensions (income), see any cuts in pet projects, lose any jobs, or even contribute a small percentage to their own health care costs. It seems they just want to collect their pensions, salaries, benefits, and keep spending at the expense of others. I just chock it up to economical ignorance. What a shame for such an "educated" lot.
alan
Tue, May 3, 2011 : 3:31 p.m.
I think you two should grow up, you both have valid points. The small business tax is a double tax but it only applied to those with gross income over $350K and was graduated above that. It needs to be redone. There is no evidence to suggest that reducing business taxes or personal taxes leads to job creation. There is plenty of research to indicate that an educated workforce and quality of life does help. Yes the auto unions probably screwed themselves but the auto companies and the governments who cry poverty were complicit. Unions served a real purpose and I wouldn't want to return to the 1890's. Did the film industry cost the state. Yes, but every dollar spent generated 5-6 dollars in state spending (according to everyone). It didn't go to the state but helped the residents. Good? Depends on perspective.
snapshot
Tue, May 3, 2011 : 5:20 a.m.
rukidding, since you brought up "guarantees" how's that worked for the unions and their productivity? Not too well apparently since you've bankrupt the auto industry and the public sector with your self serving, power mongering, influence peddling. good job. Oh, yeah you don't create jobs you just milk them until the money runs out.
rukidding
Tue, May 3, 2011 : 1 a.m.
Since you brought up "economical ignorance"...let's look at the theory of "trickle-down economics" that Snyder proposes....it has absolutely no guarantee of job creation. There will be absolutely no incentives for companies to use this money to create jobs. It will only make the rich richer. <a href="http://www.faireconomy.org/research/TrickleDown.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.faireconomy.org/research/TrickleDown.html</a> Seems to me if the governor really wanted to create jobs, he would be giving the tax breaks to the consumers who drive the economy….that whole crazy supply and demand concept. And let's be real.... does he think companies will be lining up at our borders, eager to set up shop in Michigan, with all of our shiny new financial managers, over-crowded classrooms and plunging property values? And lest we forget our impeccable reputation for sticking with new incentives (film industry) and our ever changing tax structure. THERE's 'economic ignorance' for you!
rukidding
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 7:25 a.m.
Luckily there ARE parents out there like Lexie Salazar's parents who help to counterbalance one of the REAL problems in education… lack of parental involvement. Those of you so quick to criticize the Salazar's probably don't realize that they actually took the time to teach Lexi several of the 5th grade social studies GLCEs (grade level content expectations) developed by the state of Michigan. You can find them on the Michigan Department of Education website for those who are interested in sitting down with their own children. The Salazar's should be commended, not criticized. They took time to educate their daughter about her state, current events and impart to her the values in which they believe. In doing this, they also covered the following fifth grade social studies content expectations: 1)Identify and analyze a public issue, 2) compose a short essay expressing a position on a contemporary public policy issue related to the Constitution and justify the position with a reasoned argument,3) develop and implement an action plan and know how, when, and where to address or inform others about a public issue and 4) participate in projects to help or inform others. Imagine if all parents took the time to do this! That would be true educational reform. Unfortunately many parents are too consumed with the task of finding employment or worried about putting food on the table to follow their great example. And thanks to Governor Snyder, it will only get worse.
jdmb03
Wed, May 4, 2011 : 12:13 a.m.
"And thanks to Governor Snyder, it will only get worse." How about you give Snyder more time before you judge him.
discus
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 2:11 a.m.
I am a LEO member, and while there are valuable messages that need to be heard, I don't want to associate myself with the sort of gimmicks (Snyder puppets and children) that are being celebrated as successes. This is a case of trying to use the master's tools to dismantle the master's house. These gimmicks project a lack of conviction in the message and make fools of us. It reminds me of Donald Trump asking to see the president's birth certificate.
shepard145
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 9:23 p.m.
Ed: And let me summarize your posts hear and elsewhere: Factoids without context carefully selected to mislead. You should worry less about your "facts" and educate yourself about the nature and value of truth. Good luck with your new journey.
jdmb03
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 7:36 p.m.
Dear Lexie Salazar, Please have your parents explain to you that it is their responsibility to save for your college education. You can also apply for student loans when the time comes. It is not the state of Michigan's responsibilty to help fund your education.
Dog Guy
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 5:46 p.m.
Strangling democracy, while necessary, is a continuous process. Accordingly, the founders of the American republic (not democracy) followed the basic rule of self-government barring citizens receiving public benefits from voting. Being a tax parasite myself, I find it very difficult not to vote benefits to myself (such as by the county school millage increase this week). The difficulty of self-restraint is overbalanced by the natural progress from democracy to anarchy to messianic dictatorship. A lack of self-restraint by us who live on taxes could result in state or national dictators who put themselves above the law. Have you noticed such progression lately?
AA
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 4:14 p.m.
If you do not like Govenor Snyder, take your tax money and leave. Good riddance.
alan
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 6:34 a.m.
And thank you for your deliberate and thoughtful contribution to a discussion of such importance.
fishermon
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:12 p.m.
We need to use the term Republic more often to describe what most people seem to call a Democracy. We are a Representative form of government at the Federal and State level for certain. The one man one vote principle is negated in the Senate because it is based on geographical considerations rather than population. This all resulted from a lot of comprimise but it did set the pattern of governing forward to now. Here in Michigan, we had our opportunity to vote for Governor and members of the Legislature. The winners were elected by a large electorate but by no means by all the eligible electorate. If one voted for the eventual losers that was their right. However, as long as the winners adhere to the Constitution that they swore to uphold they should govern to the pleasure of the majority that elected them. That is the democratic part of Representative government. Peaceful assembley of citizens to address their griev ences against their Government, of course, is inherent in the idea of the democratic principle. Everything happening in Ann Arbor and the State of Michigan looks healthy to me as far as the political process goes. Winners are more or less happy and losers are more or less unhappy with the outcomes.
SonnyDog09
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:44 p.m.
To those who do not like the new policies, I am reminded of what President Obama said to republicans shortly after his election: "We Won." I don't see anything anti-democratic in elected officials enacting laws that reflect the outcome of the previous election.
macjont
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:41 a.m.
For those who are really concerned about the state of education in this country, see: The New York Times Op-Ed Contributor The High Cost of Low Teacher Salaries By DAVE EGGERS and NÍNIVE CLEMENTS CALEGARI Published: April 30, 2011 <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fopinion%2Findex.jsonp" rel='nofollow'>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fopinion%2Findex.jsonp</a>
AMOC
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 3:10 a.m.
I agree with some of the NYT analysis regarding the low salary usually offered to teachers leading to relatively low quality teacher applicants. That shouldn't be all that much an issue here in Michigan, though. We offer relatively very high salaries to teachers, ones quite competitive with business graduates who work at least 10 weeks / year longer than teachers do. This has been true for at least the past 10-15 years, part of why we here in Michigan have 5 - 25 applicants for every teacher opening except for certain Special Education positions.
shepard145
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:09 a.m.
The New York Times is now indistinguishable from the government, the bankrupt democrat party and the unions that own them. The NYT has sold it's soul and no longer has anything of value to offer or contribute to the American conversation.
1bit
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:08 a.m.
That's an interesting article. On the one hand, they say don't blame the teachers (not sure the soldier analogy is apt, but whatever). On the other hand, they are basically saying that we have crummy teachers because we don't pay them enough. I'm not in the "teachers are way overpaid" camp or the "blame the teachers" camp, but I have not seen data where student achievement correlates positively with teacher salary.
Helen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:45 p.m.
It was a wonderful group of people who gathered this morning to express their feelings about Gov Rick Snyder. The event was well planned, well managed. I am not a part of any organization or profession which was represented at the event. I went to express my extreme concern about this man's autocratic method of governing. We have real problems here in Michigan but taking over local government is not an acceptable solution. This is a democracy and this man has overstepped his boundaries!
genetracy
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:14 a.m.
Thank you for not allowing your left wing protest devolve into the usual small scale riot.
1bit
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:35 a.m.
Autocratic? He is not passing the laws, he is signing them.
Speechless
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:50 p.m.
Quoting: "… We have the worst schools in the union because of the MEA…" That's false rhetoric … just another smear. Diane Ravitch, a former Assistant Secretary of Education in the Bush administration speaks to this: "[Teachers' unions are] not the problem. The state with the highest scores on the national test, that state is Massachusetts — which is 100 percent union. The nation with the highest scores in the world is Finland, which is 100 percent union. Management and labor can always work together around the needs of children if they're willing to. I think what's happening in Wisconsin and Ohio and Florida and Indiana is very, very conservative right-wing governors want to break the unions because the unions provide support to the Democratic Party. But the unions really aren't the problem in education." For more of Ravitch's informed commentary, see: <a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/04/28/135142895/ravitch-standardized-testing-undermines-teaching" rel='nofollow'>http://www.npr.org/2011/04/28/135142895/ravitch-standardized-testing-undermines-teaching</a>
genetracy
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:28 p.m.
I never have heard what the Michigan teacher's union proposes to improve education in the state other than "less work, more pay".
genetracy
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:06 p.m.
To all of you Snyder haters out there. Do you really think we would be better off if Granholm was still governor of Michigan and Kwame Kilpatrick still mayor of Detroit?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.
"To all of you Snyder haters out there. Do you really think we would be better off if Granholm was still governor of Michigan and Kwame Kilpatrick still mayor of Detroit?" I love Teapublikan selective memory combined with their ignorance (whether selective or real is unclear) about how state government works. Governor Granholm had TeapubliKan majorities in both houses of the state legislature in her first term, and in the state senate in her second term. In both cases, the Teapublikans pledged not to work with her to achieve her legislative agenda. And Michigan sank into a morass while the Teapublikans who refused to do anything blamed (and continue to blame) the governor. I'd like to say that the Teapublikans fool only themselves in perpetrating this myth but, unfortunately, it worked: Teapublikans, having refused to do anything that might help the state turn itself around, the voters of Michigan rewarded exactly the people who did all they could to prevent anything positive from happening. Good Night and Good Luck
genetracy
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:37 a.m.
Ol' Kwame knew how to throw a aprty.
Awakened
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:04 a.m.
We'd be in much better shape if Kwame Kilpatrick were governor. He is a man who knows how to pay his voters back!
1bit
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:39 a.m.
Marmot: The single state recession in the early part of the last decade was not the fault of one person (i.e. Gov. Granholm), but she was at the helm and I don't recall any visionary leadership on her part. Here is an interesting ppt presentation (<a href="http://www.ippsr.msu.edu/PPIE/Presentations/Scorsone.pdf)" rel='nofollow'>http://www.ippsr.msu.edu/PPIE/Presentations/Scorsone.pdf)</a> which details some of the problems over the past decade and perhaps some of the reasons why.
genetracy
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:43 p.m.
Well , they are both Democrats who eat from the same trough. Turning the state of Michigan into a federal aid theme park is hardly the answer.
Pika
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:38 p.m.
It is interesting that you link those two. Sort of tells why you posted your comment. I for one would much much rather still have Granholm at the helm. It isn't her fault that the rug was pulled out from under the Michigan economy and Ricky Synder isn't going to be able to fix it with his misplaced idealism and self-important and self-congratulating image of himself.
Mick52
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
Once again a bunch of criticism of the Gov's plans to get Michigan out of the fiscal mess it is in without any suggestions of what they think should be done. Just keep doing what got us here, I guess. Glad to read Irwin and Warren are suggesting they be recalled.
alan
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:37 a.m.
People keep posting comments like this but it is clear that nobody really wants to have a reasoned discussion about the problems and the solutions, they just want to yell in text and call names. Yes, I would like for everyone to discuss the purpose of government and our social and fiscal responsibilities but as long as you all just yell and blame some fictitious opponent/enemy for all the ills I don't see that happening.
Randy Tessier
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:06 p.m.
I didn't think it possible to top the year Marcus Welby M.D. (Robert Young) was the commencement speaker for the Medical School Graduation (an alternative speech was held featuring Dr. Benjamin Spock). This year, however, offers the farce of having a merchant proffer sage advice on the meaning of life after college. I suggest we all go home and read David Foster Wallace's commencement speech at Kenyon College in 2004: "This Is Water."
Jay Thomas
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:20 p.m.
That "we the people" sign is too much. More like "we the moochers."
owlnight
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:11 p.m.
conservative- What is a "short term sacrifices"????
Curious
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:42 p.m.
It's difficult to take a new story seriously when the highlight is a fifth grader expressing her thoughts. Did you ask how she came to such a conclusion at such a young, impressionable age?
Awakened
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:44 p.m.
I usually vote based upon political analysis from the middle school.
Awakened
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:10 a.m.
@Marmot. Read the related article about graduates reaction to the governor's speech. Apparently from middle school to college senior they loose that ability to critically analyze. Frankly, I blame "No child left behind" for over-focusing on test scores and not focusing on real teaching principles. Namely, learning to think critically. None of which touches the issue of the cost of public school education.
1bit
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:26 a.m.
Which is why they are allowed to vote, drive, drink alcohol, join the military, etc... A kid's opinion is usually a reflection of their parent's opinion. It's like watching Fox News all day and calling yourself informed.
Pika
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:39 p.m.
You might do well to inform your vote by attempting at least a middle school level analysis. Children are more aware of issues and give and take than they are given credit for.
shepard145
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.
"…I don't want much Governor, just more…" Public sector unions have benefited for decades by paying to elect those who sit across the table when negotiating their contacts. While not illegal, it should be. Their hands have been in the cookie jar all that time as incompetent state government and media let them to get away with it. Now the "always more" model has failed as the state is shrinking in population and value. We can no longer afford our size and scope of government, including education, that we once had. Obama's success at crashing the dollar will continue to make all that worse by introducing now 10% real inflation hidden by statistical gimmicks (excepting food and fuel from the data!), meaning the money you do earn will continue to buy less. So Lexie and these clueless, over fed UM children are about to be introduced to the NEW OBAMA CHANGE ECONOMY the hard way – through SACRIFICE. Programs that thrived in better times will be phased away and you will be FORCED to WORK HARDER FOR LESS. Make plans to visit the Gulf of Mexico and Prudhoe Bay Alaska because democrats are using your parent's paychecks to preserve them in their present drill free state.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 12:14 a.m.
"Factoids without context carefully selected to mislead. You should worry less about your "facts" and educate yourself about the nature and value of truth." Please, Shep, enlighten us with some of your own facts. So, 3 simple questions: 1) What were the deficits in each of the Bush II budgets? 2) What was the national debt when his first budget (FY 2001-02) went into effect? 3) What was the national debt at the end of his last budget (FY 2008-09)? Surely you can answer those simple questions. Oh, and please cite your sources. Inquiring minds want to know. Good Night and Good Luck
shepard145
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.
Ed: And let me summarize your posts hear and elsewhere: Factoids without context carefully selected to mislead. You should worry less about your "facts" and educate yourself about the nature and value of truth. Good luck with your new journey.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.
Shep: Let me summarize your posts, here and elsewhere: Facts and logic don't matter. Good Night and Good Luck
shepard145
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.
1. The failing economy is hidden from the masses by reporters in the tank for the government. I like to think that as readers reject the corruption, there are consequences, such as the 135 year old Ann Arbor News going bankrupt under the weight of their nonsensical liberal bias. 2 & 3 = irrelevant to the point. Layoffs at NYT continue - see 1.. 4. Do you think the total number of oil wells permitted or operating today is relevant to a market favorable to the US economy? LOL One of the most glaring failures in this generation's reporting skills (in a tremendous sea of failure), is their belligerent editorializing need to tackle subjects far beyond what their leftist liberal arts educations can comprehend. Your hero Ed knew he was a mere conduit to the authorities on complex topics. Your apparent belief that any energy policy exists at all in this incompetent government, let alone is working fine because a certain number of wells have been permitted or operating as gas turns to $5 (which democrat extremist phoneys riding in the back of chauffeured limousines support) speaks volumes about a near pathological need to support bankrupt democrats at all cost. ....writers who are regularly signed up at CNN, NYT or AA.com! ...at least until the layoffs start again! LOL
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:29 p.m.
" . . . now 10% real inflation hidden by statistical gimmicks (excepting food and fuel from the data!)" *and* "Excellent post shepard145, you are so correct about how the fed is hiding the real inflation rate." Yes, excellent posts--that is, if excellent = virtually everything in them is fiction. 1) Nothing is being hidden from anyone. <a href="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm</a> You will note that this lists all sorts of inflation stats. In April 2011 inflation with food and energy was at 2.7%. 2) The Bureau of Labor, not the Fed, is responsible for this report. 3) What gets reported in the news media is what gets reported in the news media. Their is much that it does not report (e.g., the fundamental racism that underlies the TeapubliKan movement). 4) And then there is this gem: "Make plans to visit the Gulf of Mexico and Prudhoe Bay Alaska because democrats are using your parent's paychecks to preserve them in their present drill free state." Well, actually, there are more than 4000 operating wells in the Gulf of Mexico Source: <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0726/p03s01-usgn.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0726/p03s01-usgn.html</a> . . . and thirteen companies (not BP) have been authorized to start drilling in the Gulf again. Source: <a href="http://www.care2.com/greenliving/oil-drilling-to-resume-in-gulf-of-mexico.html#" rel='nofollow'>http://www.care2.com/greenliving/oil-drilling-to-resume-in-gulf-of-mexico.html#</a> Yes, excellent "fact-filled" TeapubliKan post, shep. Good Night and Good Luck
stunhsif
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:22 p.m.
Excellent post shepard145, you are so correct about how the fed is hiding the real inflation rate.
talker
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
Some people equate work with quarterly or annual revenues and earnings. That's one part of the work force. There are some valuable jobs that don't measure up in that context, but which make it possible for these people (among others) to thrive. While Wall Street traders who generate millions of dollars in profits are seen by some as entitled to a hefty percent of the earnings in addition to being paid a salary for doing what they are supposed to do, Governor Snyder and other politicians don't connect the knowledge of people who produce profits with teachers of math, English, and so many other subjects. Then there's the priceless protection of firefighters, police officers, and EMT's that people of all income brackets rely on. There's also the doctors, nurses, technicians, and other support staff who can mean the difference between life and death as much as police, EMT's, and firefighters. Maybe it's time to back off from considering that he or she who creates money directly deserves so much of it while those whose work can't be measured in immediate dollars have to take the cuts. A few weeks ago, an international financier interviewed on t.v. insisted that those who become rich (as in billionaires) worked hard to build businesses and complaints come from people who are lazy. I wanted to ask him if all the hard workers in his support system and were lazy. I'm sure his houses are cleaned by people who work hard. He may hire gardeners and he likely has a tailor. These are examples of indirect support people who are likely not lazy and may not earn in an entire career what that financier earns in a few months. Public servants beware. If city budgets are cut in order to reward the richest corporations, cities will be left with less protection, and those laid off will earn less working for private gated communities and billionaires' estates. Protectors would become isolated in the private sector and there would be no collective bargaining.
Mike K
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 9:36 p.m.
Point of clarification; Taxpayers pay for civil servants. It's not about who "creates money"; it's about who pay them. Everyone wants to make sure their money is well spent. Here's the bottom line. Michigan was once a prosperous state (it's another debate as to why it isn't now), but now it is less so. As such, tax revenue has decreased. The solution isn't to tax more, but to bring services in line with revenue. I say that noting that my property taxes have indeed doubled in 15 years.
snoopdog
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:24 p.m.
And right there in the yellow hat at the bottom of the picture protesting the governor is your president of the Saline Board of Education, shame on you David. Good Day
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.
I want to fish for a living.... i want the state to subsidize my life by taking money from people who earn it so that I can do what I want. What a bunch of garbage.
braggslaw
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:40 a.m.
At some point the system will be insolvent and people who paid in at the higher income brackert will receive no benefits or a deminimis benefit. The last proposal I saw for SS reform was that if you were X years old as of today and you were going to make X$$ after age 67 you would receive no benefits. Frankly, I see Social Security as paying for a nice dinner once a month for me... I would opt out and keep my contribution if I could.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:29 a.m.
because . . . . ? Good Night and Good Luck
braggslaw
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:53 p.m.
I will never see a dime of social security....
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.
"sh1, give me back all the monies/taxes I've paid into social security and unemployment and I'll have far more money than i could ever collect back from them!" Individuals do not contribute to the unemployment insurance fund and, unless you die before or shortly after you start drawing your old age insurance, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will draw less than you paid in.. Good Night and Good Luck
FredMax
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
sh1, give me back all the monies/taxes I've paid into social security and unemployment and I'll have far more money than i could ever collect back from them!
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
I'm assuming, then, when it's your time to collect social security, or God forbid unemployment, that you'll nobly turn it away.
Sallyxyz
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:59 p.m.
Giving generous tax breaks to the corporations on the backs of seniors and the middle class is a horrific way to balance the budget. No other way to describe it. Recall this idiot before he damages the state further. Yes, cuts need to be made, but not at the expense of middle class residents who have worked all their lives and at the expense of seniors. Trickle down economics has not worked since the Reagan administration, and it won't work now. TAX the corporations and ultra-wealthy more, not less. Make them pay their share of taxes and that will go a long way to balancing the budget. Close the loopholes in the tax code so these millionaires will pay what they are supposed to pay instead of scamming the system.
gild
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
The successful must be punished! After all, they wouldn't have money unless they'd done something wrong.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:32 p.m.
Sallyxyz - Most of the cuts go to the middle class, small business owners, like plumbers, carpenters, electricians, barbers and hardware store owners. Ford, GM, and other large corporations will watch the loopholes, and abatements disappear with the new tax law. But then lets not let the truth of who is seeing the reduction in taxes get in the way of dogma. Good Luck Michigan
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:44 p.m.
On the backs of the middle class, how exactly is this happening? Why aren't pensions taxed? They're INCOME. MI is currently listed as one of the top 10 most tax friendly states for retirees <a href="http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=14&state_id=23&state=Mighigan" rel='nofollow'>http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/retiree_map/index.html?map=14&state_id=23&state=Mighigan</a> More taxes to corporations mean that more businesses and jobs will leave the state <a href="http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/illinois-joins-california-and-new-york-for-companies-leaving-due-to-high-taxes" rel='nofollow'>http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/illinois-joins-california-and-new-york-for-companies-leaving-due-to-high-taxes</a> Taxing Michigan's ultra wealthy will only chase them away and cause them to leave, as they, unlike working classes, can afford to go anywhere in the world they desire. The world is a much bigger place than Michigan, we need to make our state strong financially so businesses and families invest in us. We need to repair and reinvent ourselves first and immediately stop throwing good money after bad. The sooner we start the faster we can heal.
Kai Petainen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.
The other day I heard the mayor of Dearborn list Ann Arbor for having strong restrictions on freedom of speech. And although not everyone may agree with what they spoke about or what they did (at Ann Arbor), those in Ann Arbor were exercising that speech. Although the topics are different between Ann Arbor and Dearborn, the idea of freedom to speak is the same. Politics, like religion can create heated arguments and discussions. Dearborn should learn a few things from Ann Arbor on how to protest without violence. Yes, Ann Arbor has had its issues with speech (relating to trespass laws), but I believe Ann Arbor is also moving forward and doing it without violent means.
djm12652
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.
Has anyone "protesting" a possible state funding cut to UM and all other colleges, stopped to consider how much it costs to run the university in comparsion to the rest of the state? For example, how much will the new Chief of Police earn to oversee, what a little over 50 cops? So many people forget that the real world in our Great State, outside of A2, is not as lucky as we are in respect to rate of unemployment, average income and so on...
DwightSchrute
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:04 p.m.
To say nothing about the governor evidently talking out both sides of his mouth when on the one hand he emphasizes the importance of our state attracting brains, getting kids through college here and retaining those kids for our intellectual stability, but on the other hand proposing draconian cuts to education funding. Many, many people voted for him because of an apparent stance as a moderate Repulican. It is now clear to some why he was so vague on specific plan details during his campaign.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:29 p.m.
DwightSchrute - The governor proposed several tax increases, all heavily opposed. We have spent all the stimulus funds, the state rainy day fund and have underfunded the pension funds for current and former state and local employees. If we don't make cuts, what do you propose, the state is not allow to print its own money? Good Luck Michigan
Marshall Applewhite
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.
It's very refreshing to read these pages without a bunch of ad hominem attacks having been posted. I'm glad the three people who usually fill these pages with such misinformed vitriol have decided to waste their time protesting this morning.
snoopdog
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
I miss your old picture of the pres with the hair doo ! Good Day
djm12652
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4 p.m.
Oh Marshall, you're funny and a sense of humor goes a long way!
DwightSchrute
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3 p.m.
Diagenes, So if it isn't strangling democracy, what IS it called in regard to the way emergency financial managers can swoop in and lay claim to control of the money. Imagine if you had only moved to Benton Harbor in the last 4 years and voted for a couple of candidates you thought would help your community, only to find out the state has rendered your vote useless. What is that called if not called 'strangling' one's democracy? I'm curious to know.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.
Whether you and I have a "right" to local government is way above my paygrade. There is no doubt that municipalities are the creation of the state and that the state has some degree of authority over them. Exactly what that authority is, however, is open to question. The constitutional issue here is: 1) In the due process and equal protection clauses of the 14th Amendment. It is not clear that the EFM law adheres to them. 2) The EFM law gives the EFM the power to invalidate contracts. That seems to this "lawyer" (who received his law degree from Law & Order U) to be a clear violation of Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution. It is, as they say, "black letter". And the above issues notwithstanding, it appears that the EFM law will apply to literally hundreds of local governments around the state if the governor's proposed budget is adopted. He has created a fiscal shortcoming through his $1.5 billion giveaway to businesses. Those cuts will permit the appointment of EFMs around the state (witness the recent EFM training session that had more than 400 attendees). That the governor can create fiscal crises around the state that could result in the removal of hundreds of elected boards and officials MIGHT be legal (the above notwithstanding), but it is sets a dangerous and frightening precedent for those of us concerned about republican democracy. Good Night and Good Luck
1bit
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:11 a.m.
Much better - thanks. Still, though, our republic stands. And we have long ago given up absolute liberty for the sake of societal well-being. I have never been under assumption that I have a "right" to elect a local government/city council or a school board (who decides what "local" is anyway). That's why I don't have a problem with the EFM law per se. Ultimately the courts will decide if the EFM law is valid and, even if it is, my assumption is that the EFM's dictums would still face legal scrutiny.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:27 a.m.
Not hardly. Just trying to point out the logical fallacy of the argument. But if you prefer: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin Good Night and Good Luck
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:16 p.m.
Flirting with Godwin's Law, ERMG?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:40 p.m.
"The new Benton Harbor resident was unaware his community was in financial ruin and all the public services were about to cease. I'd bet he'd much rather have his 'voting rights trample' and a state manager appointed so that services could continue to be performed than the alternative. Priorities folks, find them." And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Good Night and Good Luck
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:02 p.m.
Do we have a constitutional right to local government?
Floyd Griffey
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.
We in the USA have a Representative democracy, which means we elect representatives to represent us in the governing of our country. They may not vote as we would like...that's why we have elections every few years. The majority of Michigan voters choose Rick to govern us, sorry if you don't like it.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.
The new Benton Harbor resident was unaware his community was in financial ruin and all the public services were about to cease. I'd bet he'd much rather have his "voting rights trampled"and a state manager appointed so that services could continue to be performed than the alternative. Priorities folks, find them.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:58 p.m.
The United States spends the third most in the world on education (broken down per pupil). And what do we seem to be getting for that? We rank around 15th in any given study of educational success, which means countries that spend less, are getting more. Among OECD countries we spend well above average on teacher salaries (about $6,000 more annually in every category) - so clearly other countries aren't paying their teachers more. And these protesters need to read the Constitution and the Michigan Constitution - "I think the thing that really upsets me is the emergency manager law, the idea that by governmental fiat we can override local elected officials and dissolve local government." The state government creates local governments and the Michigan constitution gives the state the right to dissolve and rearrange local governments as it sees fit. That's nothing new. And using a fifth grader as a puppet is just typical union. Absolutely disgusting.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:25 p.m.
Tim Smith - I fought to maintain the right to protest. I believe it in. It is not the protest I abject to, but the idea that instead of bucking up and getting an injunction and then running the court hurdles, the people who dislike what is going on decide to go to recall. This means a minimum of 18 months of chaos for the state. Companies are not going to seriously look at Michigan as a home when the policy is in flux. A wise opposition would have joined the Benton Harbor Lawsuit and asked the Court for an injunction, similar to what the Detroit School Board asked for with Robert Bobb. But, no, they want to create chaos in the state, and they don't care if they drive jobs and people out of the state - it is all about inflaming the base and maintaining power. OBTW - both sides are doing this, neither is clean on this issue. Both should be thrown completely out of office, not only in the State House and Senate, The governor's office, the courts and the union leadership. BUT - that will not happen. Instead the political class will play with the rest of us, like a kitten plays with string. Good Luck Michigan
Tim Smith
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.
@ DonBee: You are probably correct that neither the state legislature nor the governor is in overt violation of the US Constitution or the Michigan Constitution. They have lawyers on staff, after all. Will stand up to a more detailed legal analysis? Beats me—that's what we have courts for. Because a thing is legal, though, does not make it right. It was at one point entirely legal to do many things in this country, especially south of the Mason-Dixon line. One of the reasons that I came out today is that actions that are unjust should be protested, even if they are entirely legal. I do object to the characterization of today's protests as "taking the law into one's own hands." This was a bunch of noisy leftists walking along a sidewalk, not a lynching. The only things thrown were words, and most of them were so well-worn that they'd lost any sharp edge. Free speech is not chaos. Indeed, it is the first and arguably the foremost of the liberties enumerated by the Bill of Rights. We have come nowhere near the limits of those liberties, and I hope you will agree with me that they were worth defending.
Tim Smith
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:52 p.m.
Mr. Brodnar: If force is not the word you had in mind, you might do well to think of another. You seem to have problems with imprecise language. For instance: you keep referring to the state, and to the legislature. If you have read (or even skimmed) Public Law 4 of 2011, you will have noted that the state treasurer is now empowered to carry out all of its provisions. The state treasurer is appointed by the governor. As such, it might be more accurate to say that the executive branch of the state is now capable of acts that may include breaking union contracts and/or dissolving the local government. Furthermore, I only quickly read Hunter v. Pittsburgh (207 U.S. 161), but it looks like the dissolution of the city of Allegheny was carried out after the more populous city of Pittsburgh voted in favor of the annexation. The analogy with a law that would allow a governor's cabinet member to unilaterally dissolve local governments is not entirely clear. You may wish to rethink your implicit assertion that the two cases are interchangeable. Oh, and how do I know of your busy schedule? From your blog, where you tell us about your status as an MSU freshman, and share your thoughts about how those of us at the rally are union thugs. BTW, you can call this condescending old thug "Dr. Smith," not Tim. Let me know when you've served this country in some meaningful way, and we'll talk about using my first name.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:27 p.m.
Tim Smith - Thank you for your service. I too spent a large portion of my life defending the constitution. I find nothing that violates the Constitution of the US or the State of Michigan in the acts of the State Legislature or the Governor. We as you well know have a three part system, Executive, Legislative and Judicial. Right now we should be putting the actions in front of the Judicial to find out what is and is not according to the law. This is the way the US is supposed to work as you and I both know. Taking the law into one's own hands has a name, we were both taught that in the Military. Right now, we should be pushing thru court cases, not creating chaos. Good luck Michigan
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:59 p.m.
@Tim Maybe force isn't the correct word, but by using force I simply mean the state government has the power to make cities, districts, etc, to do all those things. Not to get too technical but the sentence "enter into contractual undertakings" is simply referring to getting cities to take an action and engage in undertakings with each other. Well, how does the state going about setting that action in motion? They probably ask the parties, and if the parties say no they can force them. Or they could force them without asking. My point was simply the state has the power to force cities into those undertaking. "Though you have had the opportunity to do so, I somehow doubt that you have fitted this into your busy schedule." - I appreciate your condescending remarks, very big of you. I'm not sure how you know of my busy schedule, but I certainly do not hold my schedule or my life above my country, regardless of if I have ever been involved with the military. For the record, I have not, but I respect those who have. And I know the vast majority of them do not look down upon those who have not. I would like to think you are part of that vast majority, but your statements seem to show otherwise. "I'm quite sure that it leaves the details of state government to each state, and to the people. As such, it's a poor support for any argument about the Emergency Financial Manager law, be it in support of or in opposition to the law." I disagree. The point is, the US Constitution leaves it up to the states, which therefore means the states have the power to govern their territory as they see fit. States are under no obligation to create municipalities or cities. It's just easier to do so. This is outlined in the Supreme Court case Hunter v. Pittsburgh. Therefore states also have the power to take away cities and municipalities at their will for whatever reason (assuming there are no restrictions in the state's constitution).
Tim Smith
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:50 p.m.
It's probably a good idea for people to read the actual Emergency Manager bill that was recently passed, as well as reading the news articles and editorials that refer to it (or to each other). It's Public Act 4 of 2011, which stated out as House Bill 4214 . I'll be looking it over in detail, and recommend that everybody weighing in on debate about this bill do likewise.
Tim Smith
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:35 p.m.
Mr. Brodnar: I'm the protester who was quoted in the article, and would like to reply to your statements above. I am tolerably familiar with the US Constitution. I once swore an oath to uphold it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Though you have had the opportunity to do so, I somehow doubt that you have fitted this into your busy schedule. I'm quite sure that it leaves the details of state government to each state, and to the people. As such, it's a poor support for any argument about the Emergency Financial Manager law, be it in support of or in opposition to the law. I will admit that, until you suggested it, I hadn't read the Michigan Constitution. What can I say--I still think of myself as a Virginian, despite having been here since you were in pre-school. Still, I was able to find a copy and skim it. I'm afraid that I didn't catch where Article VII Section 28 allows the legislature to force cities into contractual obligations. The relevant verbs seem to be "enter," "share," "transfer," and "lend." Perhaps you could elaborate on how the legislature is empowered by this section to require cities to unwillingly carry out any action. I don't parse laws for a living, but this seems to be a thin basis for your argument.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:54 p.m.
The Constitution can be found here - <a href="http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/constitution.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/constitution.pdf</a> All of Article VII is of note. It is broken up into sections, county, township, city etc. Each of those sections will begin with something like this "Each organized [township, county, city, etc] shall be a body corporate with powers and immunities provided by law." That's provided by Michigan law, and the constitution continues by laying out powers of those bodies, which is basically just budgeting and taxation. Article VII Section 28 details how the state legislature may combine cities or force two or more cities into contractual obligations with one another, etc. Article VII Section 33 states - "Any elected officer of a political subdivision may be removed from office in the manner and for the causes provided by law." Meaning the state has the power to remove elected official so long as that removal is backed by Michigan law. Also note the use of "political subdivision." Meaning that municipalities are not entities separate from the state, they are subdivisions underneath the state with the purpose of making governing easier for the state.
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:17 p.m.
Will you please direct me to the appropriate section(s) of the Michigan constitution. I find no mention of your reference.
Bogie
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:58 p.m.
Did anyone tell little Lexie, that with the current system; she will graduate high school, and not be prepared for college? Don't worry Lexie, Governor Snyder's gonna make it all right!
DBlaine
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
We already have a recall mechanism. It's called the next election.
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:12 p.m.
"Waiting that long will be too late for many of us." Now that is a very curious statement.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:20 p.m.
Well you were fine waiting out Governor Granholm. I wonder if this means that the next govenor will have 2 months before the recall effort starts, then 1 month, then 2 weeks? Thank you both parties for the chaos. Neither cares about Michigan Good luck Michigan
Sallyxyz
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
Waiting that long will be too late for many of us.
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
wow, pilgrim, that comment just says it all.
Pilgrim
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:05 p.m.
Let's see-now just what are we supposed to do in the meantime??????????????
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:46 p.m.
@A2citizen- I also worked my way through college waiting tables. I paid for community college to earn a scholarship to finish my bachelor's degree. But I don't think that's the point. The purpose of a public university system is to provide educational opportunity to the residents of the state for the benefit of all. It is very expensive to run a university. The money that the state contributes is the difference between cost of tuition for an in-state student vs. a non resident. For example, UM has 25,000 undergrads, 2/3 of whom are residents. The difference in tuition for in-state vs. out-state is about $22,000 for a total difference of over $300M, about what the school receives from the state. Without the state's contribution, everyone will be paying $50,000/year for school and higher education will not be available except to the wealthy. The GI bill or a part time job won't pay for that, and I would guess that when you paid your way through school it was probably at a public institution unless your job paid enough that you didn't have to go to school. My daughter will attend UM in the fall because all of the other schools that admitted her were private schools that we couldn't afford. You may believe that the state receives no benefit from subsidizing the education of it's residents but it is not a handout to the poor, there is a perceived social benefit to an educated population. We also have one of the finest public education systems in the country and one of the best universities in the world as a part of that system.
a2citizen
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 5:36 p.m.
"...If a student can only be admitted to Ferris or Lake State I might suggest they aren't really prepared for college..." We must be the only two reading this blog because normally a comment like that would receive a sea ofprotests. Not that I disagree with you. "...I think we need to have a serious look at the public system and ask the purpose of each university and why we fund them as we do..." Agreed 110 percent. And I'm sure we would save more than $200 million.
alan
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 4:28 p.m.
Here's one example. Wayne State has about 15,000 full time equivalent undergraduate students. If I'm generous I assume 100% in state. The tuition differential for residents vs. non-residents taking 15 credits/semester is less than $9,000/yr. If I assume it's 9,000 then the state subsidy for in state students should be no more than $135M but it was over $220M in the 09-10 fiscal year. I just saved $85M. I also question whether we should be over-subsidizing a school whose average ACT is less than 20. I think we need to have a serious look at the public system and ask the purpose of each university and why we fund them as we do. We could save a lot of money.
alan
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.
Sorry A2, I wasn't aware that I was directing energy anywhere. I was merely clarifying the purpose of educational funding in Michigan, as in all 50 states, because there appears to be a widespread misunderstanding of the purpose of that funding. You are correct about the size of the cut. UM has a budget over $4B and a 15% cut of their $300M is only 1-2% of their budget so it doesn't appear to be much. But, on an individual basis, it does affect the ability of Mich residents to attend. I could, however, cut more than Mr. Snyder has proposed. If you look at the figures you will find that UM and MSU receive less than the amount necessary to cover the tuition difference for residents while some schools, particularly Wayne State, receive a vastly disproportionate amount. I would need to do all of the calculations but it appears that if funding to each individual school was set each year at the tuition differential for in-state residents, the original intent of public education, then I could save more than Rick has proposed cutting. Michigan had 4 public universities after the addition of Western in the 60's but now has 15 or 16. Why? Is that necessary? If a student can only be admitted to Ferris or Lake State I might suggest they aren't really prepared for college and might be better served by less expensive training. So I don't think I ever suggested that cuts don't need to be made, I just think that a sensible discussion of why we have the problems and what we would like is in order. As for Mary Sue, is it appropriate to compare her salary to that of the CEO of a comparable private business? I don't know, but I do get more upset when the CEO of Exxon makes $30M in 2010 and I pay $4/gal for gasoline to try to make a living.
a2citizen
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:45 a.m.
Alan, The University of Michigan: -receives about $330 million in direct state appropriations -receives about $750 million in federal research expenditures Snyder wants to cut spending for higher education by $200 million statewide. That's $200 million to be absorbed by over 45 colleges and universities. In the last five years property values have crashed and millions have lost their jobs. Unemployment in Michigan is over 10%. If the tax revenue is just not there for education where do you propose the money come from? Something has to give. Instead of directing your energy at Snyder you might want to question why university salaries have gone up every year while unemployment goes up and salaries in private industry have gone down. Mary Sue Coleman makes $750k per year and she is a public employee. It appears that Ms. Coleman is one of the wealthy that will can afford college for her kids. The cuts in Snyder's proposals that the UofM would see could easily covered by reductions in the pay and benefits of university employees.
alan
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 1:30 a.m.
A2citizen- If you attended UM as an in-state student then you received the same subsidy as everyone else in the form of reduced tuition. Your GI benefits then paid for the remaining part which was only about 1/3 of the actual tuition cost. I might also add that the average college freshman has made no contribution of any kind yet. But, as I pointed out above, the question is whether or not we believe that the state should subsidize the education of it's citizens and I thank you for your opinion even though I think we disagree.
a2citizen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:01 p.m.
Alan, While on active duty I took college course that, after reimbursement, were 95% paid for. After I got out of the military I used the GI Bill to go to the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor. I then used what was left over to attend a private school. I'm not saying the state does not receive a benefit. I am saying that I do not feel your child is entitled to a taxpayer subisidized college education without any contribution to society on her part.
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:44 p.m.
Although, Jim, in some states it is much higher. In California about 95% of undergrads in the public system are residents. 88% of UNC undrgrads are residents.
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:32 p.m.
JimB- 2/3 of undergraduates are in state. They are the students whose tuition is subsidized. The percentage of grad and professional students is, I'm sure, much lower.
JimB
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:26 p.m.
@alan I challenge your claim that 2/3 of the students at UofM are in-state. One big problem with the school is that in-state kids are passed over in favor of out- of state/foriegn students. I remember an article a few months back that gave the hard numbers on in-state/out-of-state. Maybe someone can repost those numbers.
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:23 p.m.
Andy- I'm not sure what your post has to do with my comment to A2citizen. I would also like to see some numbers to support your assertion that public universities are wasteful. They are much more efficient than most private colleges. They have much higher student/faculty ratios, pay lower wages, and do so without the endowments of similar private institutions. But my point was that the money from the state is intended to subsidize the resident students who attend. Most of the university is, in fact, a well run business. UM has a budget of over $4B. They receive over $2B in fees for med services and another $1B in research grants. The state's contribution for tuition subsidy is a very small fraction of the budget.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:08 p.m.
The public universities are extrordinarilly wasteful and do not incorporate peformance based incentives nor other forms of best practices one might find in the private sector. Why? Because the more they spend the more state revenue they obtain. Like DTE they justify growing by spending. It represents a cyclical fallacy tied to an improper conclusion (I am, therefore I think).
conservative
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:40 p.m.
Whether you like to admit it or not, Michigan is in a competition with 49 other states for Jobs, Businesses, Resources, Standards of living and an overall way of life… And if you haven't noticed we happen to be losing! Snyder was elected because people believe he is the one to help us compete and become a better state and a better place to live. He is making tough, and perhaps unpopular decisions but I think he has the know-how to fix this state and make us competitive even if it hurts in the short term. For some reason I am not surprised that the protestors mentioned all seem to be part of a union (one form or another whether it be teachers, UAW, firefighters, etc…). Change is never easy and to be the best you have to work harder than the rest, even if that means some short term sacrifices (something all of these union people can't seem to understand)...
a2citizen
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:02 a.m.
Alan, The University of Michigan: -receives about $330 million in direct state appropriations -receives about $750 million in federal research expenditures Those contributions are at a minimum generous. In the last five years property values have crashed and millions have lost their jobs. The unemployment rate in Michigan is over 10%. If the tax revenue is just not there for education (without the creative accounting that created this mess) where do you propose the money come from? Something has to give.
glacialerratic
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:07 p.m.
I saw hard-working nurses, teachers, fire-fighters and many others who made sacrifices when they chose their path in life, and who make sacrifices everyday, fully committed to their community. I saw our country and it's best and it made me proud.
EyeHeartA2
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:34 p.m.
I suspect trouble down the road when Lexie figures out she was lied to and merely used for propaganda purposes by dear old mom.
Michigan Citizens United
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:30 p.m.
Wow Andy Jacobs acts as if just because the child is in fifth grade that she cannot think and speak for herself. This recall of Rick Snyder will pass. Please go to <a href="http://www.firericksnyder.org/volunteer" rel='nofollow'>www.firericksnyder.org/volunteer</a> to be part of the cause.
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:18 p.m.
Thank you for bringing chaos to the state of Michigan. Two sides divided by dogma, both more interested in their own power politics than the welfare of the average citizen of Michigan. Good Luck Michigan
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
@Alan The only function listed in there that requires consent is "transfer functions or responsibilities to one another or any combination thereof upon the consent of each unit involved." I read that section as each semi colon separates a power the government has to force upon local governments, and because that section is sandwiched by semi-colon it is one function, and because it is in the only one that explicitly says requires consent, I would argue the other do not require consent. However, I'm not a lawyer so I couldn't speak legally in regards to that, it is simply how I read it. Regardless, as I responded to Michigan Citizens United, the state still has the power to do those things without local consent, that is provided to them via a Supreme Court decision.
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
Jacob- Explicit in section 28, with respect to the transfer of functions and responsibilities, is the consent of each governmental unit involved.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.
@Michigan Citizens United I'm not necessarily talking about the EFM law, I'm talking about state-local relationships in general. Article VII Section 33 of the Michigan constitution clearly states - " Any elected officer of a political subdivision may be removed from office in the manner and for the causes provided by law." Please read through all of Article VII of the Michigan Constitution, it clearly lays out and clearly states that the state grants rights to the local governments and the state has the right to rearrange localities as it sees fit. Read Article VII Section 28 for that. Snyder isn't abusing these powers. He hasn't even appointed a Emergency Financial Manager yet! The changes he has made is simply allowing those EFM's more power to fix financial problems, and he has the power to do that, it is within the constitution, it just has to pass as Michigan law. Furthermore you don't have a right to local governments, sorry that's fact. Supreme Court case Hunter v. Pittsburgh said that local governments are nothing more than "convenient agencies for exercising … such powers as may be entrusted to them" by the state. Furthermore that case found that - "the state may modify or withdraw all such power, may take without compensation such property, hold it for itself, or vest it with other agencies, expand or contract the territorial area, unite the whole or part of it with another municipality, repeal the charter and destroy the corporation … with or without the consent of the citizens, or even against their protest." So if you have a problem with a Snyder appointed EFM "taking over a city" without the consent of the citizens, I suggest you take it up with the Supreme Court.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:33 p.m.
No more red herring regarding the locations within Michigan of your members, it's irrelevant and doesn't answer the question. What percent (guestimate) of your supporters are/were employed or somehow receive(d) benefit directly or indirectly from Michigan public school funding or are otherwise card carrying MEA members? Stand up for your rights! Don't be ashamed to reveal if you have an overwhelming majority with their own jobs on the line. Q: Why else would someone make such a ruckus about funding? A: Why, to protect their very own interests of course.
Michigan Citizens United
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
@Jacob. Yes the EFM law has been around and been changed in the last 2o years. Snyder is the first to abuse this power. It is a Dictatorship and strips the voters of their rights.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:49 p.m.
@Michigan Citizens United You want to answer the questions that I asked?
Michigan Citizens United
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:47 p.m.
We are a group of Michigan Citizens that have United for a great cause. We have people across the State that are involved.
Michigan Citizens United
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:45 p.m.
@Andy Jacobs You are incorrect. The MEA is not part of our Organization. We are not a front for the MEA. We have no clue why you people think this, or why this rumor got started.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:26 p.m.
Once the shiny green curtain is lifted revealing those who are behind the recall (MEA) and their motivation (keeping their own jobs and things the way they are) the entire "recall movement" will end, abruptly. Students, not unions, first! Accountability NOW!
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.
maybe lexie can get together with 6 year old serafina sabatini (from snyder's speech) and discuss michigan's constitution.
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.
Michigan Citizens, while i don't agree with you on the Snyder issue, i respect your opinion and respect you more for your comment about it being the graduates day.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:15 p.m.
By the way, I'll at least give you credit for not attending today's rally, that's admirable. I hope you were using that time to do some research on state government and local government relationships.
Jacob Bodnar
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.
Hey Michigan Citizen's United, have you actually read the Michigan Constitution? Do you at least admit that Rick Snyder has the power to dissolve and rearrange local governments? Do you at least admit that power has been around for ages? Do you understand the rights of local governments are fairly clearly defined and any other right lies within the state, not the local government? Because according to your recall language you don't. And that's disturbing. As a fifth grader I'm sure Lexie is getting to the point where she can understand this whole budget mess, but let's be honest, you clearly don't even understand it, so I think it's safe to say she can't wrap her brain around it. And if she does understand it, why did she say this, "My mom told me that my school might not be able to do things like study at the zoo anymore," Lexie said. "She also told me there might be more kids in my class if we might have the proper equipment to let us learn. That's not right." Her mom told, she didn't draw that conclusion by herself.
Michigan Citizens United
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.
FYI, Our Organization did not attend today's rally due to the fact that today is the Graduates day, not ours. See you in Benton Harbor on Saturday May 7th.
Random Man
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:52 p.m.
Well if she can speak and think for herself then maybe we don't need to further pay for her eduaction. Job well done 5th grade teachers. :o]
John
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:27 p.m.
Do you people who so vehemently hate Snyder have any better solutions to bringing spending in line and getting the state back on track? Or do you just want to go back to the status quo that has worked SO well for Michigan the last 8 years? I'm glad we have a savvy buisnesman leading our economic overhaul, and not some career politician who smiles in the camera and promises we'll be "Blown away" only to be in the worst condition in the entire US.
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:11 p.m.
macjont: Sorry, sometimes the internet doesn't convey sarcasm. Are you being serious?
macjont
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:25 p.m.
I want to go back to the progress we were making during the 8 years under Granholm. And we better do it before this self-proclaimed nerd destroys everything.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:14 p.m.
Go to: <a href="http://janus.pscinc.com/budgetsim/default.aspx" rel='nofollow'>http://janus.pscinc.com/budgetsim/default.aspx</a> As the above website makes clear, there are many many alternatives to what the governor has done. Good Night and Good Luck
alan
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:50 p.m.
The vehemence appears to work both ways. I think that a reasoned discussion about the purpose of government would be the first place to start. The US has the lowest taxes and least services of any 1st world country and we are in the worst shape. Taxes are half of what they were when I was a kid and CEO salaries have increased 500% since 1980 while the average inflation adjusted wage has risen 2%. We have the greatest income and wealth disparity ever in this country. We have the worst access to health care of any 1st world country. No revenue implies to me a recipe for failure. On the other hand, 80% of school districts in Michigan participate in MESSA at almost 50% greater cost than the average private health insurance plan. Why? State employees have been on a defined contribution plan for years (albeit with a pretty lousy match) but teachers still have a defined benefit plan. We could redo that. Everybody seems to want to take one side or the other and call names and yell louder. Sure, sound business practices and sound social practices are both in order but we can't even seem to have the discussion about what we want.
a2citizen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:22 p.m.
I really don't want to debate with a fifth grader but since their parents are using them as tools I will do my best. ..."If Gov. Snyder makes these cuts in education, my parents will have to pay a lot more money ..." Well, your parents paying more money for your education makes more sense than me paying more money for your education. That's how taxes work. "But we're not a rich family and I have three brothers want to go to college too." She added: "If I don't have a education, how am I going to be a zoologist? Well, I had three brothers and a sister and neither one of my parents had a college degree. Yet I managed to pay my own way through college. Here's a thought....join the military and get the GI BIll. That option has worked for millions of people.
a2citizen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 11:01 p.m.
glacial: Of all the groups you mentioned (nurses, fire-fighters, teachers,...) which ones show up for work for free? Yes, they may be dedicated but they are also well-compensated. And if the compensation were to stop I venture to say so would the dedication. Sorry, I don't think your child, and my child for that matter, is entitled to a taxpayer subsidized college education without any personal sacrifice on their part. The GI Bill might have been a shared public investment, but it was also earned by the recipient.
glacialerratic
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:40 p.m.
Entitlement? Where? Where among the hundreds of nurses, fire-fighters, teachers and other public servants who marched this morning and who have dedicated their lives to the citizens of our country, who take a stand every day on our behalf and who work relentlessly for our children, our sick, our injured, who do the hard work that builds the future and protects our present? In truth, it is many of the wealthiest Americans who feel the most entitled, who whine and complain about the taxes they are asked to pay as their contribution for the benefits they enjoy. Where is the contribution of those who refuse to see past personal self-interest and fail to join in a broader American enterprise and shared commitment to the the general welfare and the common good? The GI Bill is one of the most successful shared public investments in education that has ever been made anywhere. The first beneficiaries of this transfomative legislation are now passing. They built the country we now have, and that we are now in danger of losing as the common good gives way before the power of private interests.
a2citizen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:51 p.m.
Glacialeratic: True, the GI Bill is paid for by tax dollars. But it is a contract. If the government says, "No more education benefits." What do you suppose the repercussions would be? Maybe not as many people enlisting? Check out the price of gas: Close to $5.00 per gallon. If the military were not keeping the shipping lanes open what do you suppose you would be paying for gas? You do not receive the GI Bill for free. It takes a three or four year sacrifice. Like I said, the strong sense of entitlement without any sacrifice is growing.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 7:12 p.m.
I guess having an educated citizenry must serve only the interests of those who are educated? Because, judging by the comments here and elsewhere, our country would be just as well off if all of its citizens were dumb as a stump as it would be if its citizens were well educated. Good Night and Good Luck
umbsme98
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:32 p.m.
But those that have received the GI bill have earned it by working their butts off. A little different then having my tax dollars go to support somebody who feels they are entitled to a cheap education.
glacialerratic
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:04 p.m.
Uh, the GI Bill is paid for with tax dollars. That's why we have taxes, to pay for things that make us better as a nation, to provide for the public good for the benefit of all.
a2citizen
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:55 p.m.
sh1: $13,424 x 4 = $53,696. The modern day GI Bill provides close to $50,000 in tuition assistance. Additionally, active duty military can receive up to 100% tuition reimbursement for college courses taken in off duty hours. I know from personal experience it has been this way for at least 35 years. Yes, tuition costs have risen. But so has the general sense of entitlement without any personal sacrifice. <a href="http://www.military.com/education/content/money-for-school/tuition-assistance-ta-program-overview.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.military.com/education/content/money-for-school/tuition-assistance-ta-program-overview.html</a> <a href="http://collegesavings.about.com/od/otherfundingsources/a/gibill.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://collegesavings.about.com/od/otherfundingsources/a/gibill.htm</a>
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:23 p.m.
I did the same, but tuition costs have risen. "The average cost of a year of schooling thirty years ago was only $2,550 as opposed to the average of $13,424 today." See <a href="http://www.michiganreview.com/archives/2855" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michiganreview.com/archives/2855</a>
ViSHa
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
or don't have 4 kids.
bornblu
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.
Lexie; You may want to thank Gov. Snyder for taking a stand at this time which will allow you to even have a Zoo in the future to visit.
Chris
Mon, May 2, 2011 : 12:27 p.m.
Yep, we can go see the squirrels, or the feral cats and dogs behind the fence cuz we cant afford maintenance or upkeep of any non local animals!
Pilgrim
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.
Who has the time or money to visit a zoo?! I will be spending my time and money getting Snyder recalled. Our economy and the current Michigan administration is the real zoo!!!!!
Random Man
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.
Michigan has lost population and our state economy (while plucky) is still poor at best. Cuts have to be made somewhere to realign services with our population an current economy. Our education system is still focused on a model made to coincide with an agricultural economy. (Forgive spelling just now drinking 1st cup of coffee.) While cuts are necessary our children also need new ideas on how to use what limited resources we have better. I've heard debate over budgets but, have yet to see proposals on how to change our education model to better serve our needs. (Just throwing ideas out there more, Advanced Placement, mixed media, standard testing for K-12 to identify when students should advance, less of a babysitting/prison model and more education.)
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 12:10 p.m.
Hmmm. Let's see. One set of children are struggling in school. Another is not. Let's change what we're doing with the group that is not struggling. TeapubliKan logic of a TeapubliKan supreme court justice. Good Night and Good Luck
Basic Bob
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 3:37 a.m.
That's what I love about Ann Arbor Democrats. Forcing other people do things for their own good that they wouldn't do themselves. Forget the fact that all people have rights, not just ones that earned it by virtue of which street they live on, because when you go one block over the parents abandon their children. I guess the double standard isn't just for tea parties any more.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:27 a.m.
"If this is such a good program, it should also be used on the children of the school board members and professors." Yes, because it is those children who suffer from the achievement gap. Good Night and Good Luck
Basic Bob
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.
@sh1, the school system is making it unworkable for parents who have children at Scarlett and other schools. If this is such a good program, it should also be used on the children of the school board members and professors. Warning, it might impact their vacation and work schedule.
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:33 p.m.
A model that Ann Arbor wants to try is year-round schooling, which is supported by research as well as Ann Arbor teachers. It's the parents who are shooting that down.
AnnArBo
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.
Lexie, if we keep doing things the way we have for decades, you're going to have a lot more to worry about than how to pay for college.
Diagenes
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.
Enough with the overblown hyperbole. No one is "STRANGLING DEMOCRACY". We had an election in November after a campaign that started in february. We all knew that there are serious budget problems. The majority of voters choose to elect a Republican legislature and a Republican Governor to solve these problems. We have serious problems in our state that must be addressed. Government and public schools are expensive to operate. Rasing taxes will not help in the long run. The rich have options. They can move their residency to cheaper states. The poor and middle class will ultimately bear the brunt of tax increases. Go head all you public sector employees, that includes you brainiacs at public universities, (Mary Sue Coleman lives in,public housing), demonize Gov. Synder all you want. At least he is proposing solutions to real problems. All I hear from you is rhetoric.
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:09 p.m.
"your right to vote for your local government" Where exactly do we have this "right"?
DonBee
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 6:15 p.m.
Cash - No one has taken away anyone's right to vote. You are old enough to know better. Let the power politics chaos begin. Good luck Michigan
Cash
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:17 p.m.
When the ruler takes away your right to vote for your local government you have no democracy. Czar Snyder makes your choices for you.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
"Enough with the overblown hyperbole. No one is 'STRANGLING DEMOCRACY.'" Let's see if you can be intellectually consistent . Will you have the same reaction the next time the president is called a Nazi, a Communist, and/or a socialist? Will you have the same reaction the next time his place of birth is raised as an issue? Will you have the same reaction the next time Limbaugh, or Hannity or their ilk declare that the president wants the US to fail, or that the president does not love the US? Will you do the same the next time someone declares the president to be a Muslim? Will you do the same the next time someone says teachers, cops, and firemen are demonized? If not, then it is extreme rhetoric from only one side that bothers you. Good Night and Good Luck
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:30 p.m.
Funny, you've had enough with "overblown hyperbole" but don't see a problem accusing others as "demonizing" the guv.
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
Andy, can you point me to the data you found for Michigan having "the worst schools in the union"? And, you might need to read the articles more carefully. This is not about accountability. It's about taking $200 million from higher education to pay for the hole filled by Snyder's tax cut for businesses.
DonBee
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 2:02 a.m.
Andy - I am sorry, I cannot by your data. The data provided in the Governor's letter on education reform put Michigan in 34th place. That means there are 16 states lower than Michigan. Unfortunately being 34th is no reason to celebrate. Good Luck Michigan
northside
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:49 p.m.
Post a baseless accusation that the state's schools are the "worst in the union." Click 'vote' on your own post a zillion times. When challenged on the baseless accusation post a bunch of links that actually support an opposing view. When called out on that accuse others of a 'strawdog' argument
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:19 p.m.
Also I missed the point that Michigan needs to attract more businesses to generate the (taxable) jobs and (somewhat taxable) corporate revenue that supports higher education. This doesn't happen the other way around.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:13 p.m.
Ugh.. STRAWMAN and I fell right into it. Sorry, I admit to making a rather sweeping generalization with the "worst schools in the union" statement. Brevity be the soul of wit what I meant to say was akin to what Jacob has pointed out below "Compared to the rest of OECD countries Michigan doesn't do nearly as good a job in educating as it could with the resources it has available". I'd like to find out why this is so as quickly as possible. Comparing our state to all the other underperforming states in the union is like saying "Hey, at least we're not as bad as Podunk, AL"... which I admit is a pretty poor argument. With education being a first and foremost priority to ensure the largest chance of "success" Michigan's citizens are able to accomplish we have the responsibility to hold our systems accountable, submit them to rigorous performance reviews and strive to improve and do better if for the sake of no other reason but the pursuit of excellence alone. Since you've done such a good job at defending Michigans public education system is the position you're trying to make is that everything is ok and we should support the status quo? I don't understand your premise or if, in fact, you have one. Kudos on the strawman though.
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:20 p.m.
Still waiting for the data to prove your point....
northside
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
Andy that's the best ya got? Seriously? A real estate website that says Mich has 3 of the worst 100 schools in the nation? (Two would be expected average but don't let that complicate your thinking) A Chamber of Commerce survey that reveals principals aren't fond of tenure? And a state report that simply shows how troubled student performance is in areas with high concentrations of poverty? Thanks for the links. They all support the view that Michigan public schools do an admirable job considering the massive challenges they face.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.
Wow, I guess I didnt know MI was also ranked 5th in the union with the most 9-12th grade dropouts either <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/dropout08/tables/table_05.asp?referrer=report" rel='nofollow'>http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/dropout08/tables/table_05.asp?referrer=report</a> Still fighting for status quo? Businesses create jobs and revenue which translates to more residents paying taxes that schools can use and so the circle of life can continue. Where's the issue? To CREATE revenue it goes from businesses>jobs>people>familes>taxes>schools>kids. There is NO magic money tree.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:53 p.m.
sure thing via <a href="http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/school-district/ratings/worst100/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/school-district/ratings/worst100/</a> out of roughly 97,000 public schools in the US MI captured 3 out of the top 100: #66 CHARLOTTE FORTEN ACADEMY - Detroit #50 HERMAN/ROGERS ACADEMY - Detroit #18 BUSINESS ENTREPRENEURSHIP, SCIENCE, TECH. ACADEMY - Highland Park Why the MEA is bad for Michigan education via: <a href="http://icw.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/LL-2009-16-USCC.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://icw.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/LL-2009-16-USCC.pdf</a> "Staffing: Removing Ineffective Teachers. Michigan receives a mediocre score on the ability to remove poor-performing teachers from the classroom. Seventy-five percent of principals say that teacher unions or associations are a barrier to the removal of ineffective teachers, 14 percentage points higher than the national average of 61%. In addition, 80% of principals report that tenure is a barrier to removing poor-performing teachers." Out of Michigans 850 schools 92 (11%) have been identified by State of MI (e.g. they must really suck) as persistently lowest achieving schools in Michigan via <a href="http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-37818_56562-242163--,00.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-37818_56562-242163--,00.html</a> I've got office hours 8-10 Mon - Fri for any other info you may need. How about someone prove that Michigan has great schools and does the best with the resources available? Oh.. thats what evil Snyder wants to implement, best practices, performance based incentives and overall accountability.
Random Man
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
Are taxes for state services come from those who are employed by private businesses and own property. While government service employees pay taxes it's still just money from our own resources. We need to jump start our economy if we want to save our services. No great choices available to us but, people are not defined by the easy choices we make. Unfortunately for us our time to make those hard choices is not long.
Dave
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:52 p.m.
Unions exploiting 5th graders. I thought Ann Arborites were above this sort of ruse. Why don't these people protest the outlandish rise in tuition at the U of M. That hurts those who can least afford it.
Victor
Sun, May 1, 2011 : 11:22 p.m.
Dave, If the state would actually support the University, the tuition would not have to be increased.
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:55 p.m.
If there is an endless supply of water from a faucet, what incentive would you ever have to drink less?
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
They WERE protesting that! A $200 million cut to higher ed can only increase tuition.
slp2003
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
Oh, this video wasn't using little kids as puppets? Please. Freedom of speech goes both ways. <a href="http://youtu.be/gX3CIVQV10Q" rel='nofollow'>http://youtu.be/gX3CIVQV10Q</a>
Tony Livingston
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:14 p.m.
touche.
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 9:08 p.m.
Using children at all for this sort of thing is absolutely unacceptable in my book. If I've got something to say, I'll say it myself. I won't tell my kid to say it for me. Maybe the problem is there aren't adults around anymore.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 4:14 p.m.
No, Mr. Jacobs. His point is that your outrage is selective, and therefore hypocritical. Nothing more. Typically TeapubliKan. Good Night and Good Luck
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3 p.m.
So you agree that the MEA did use a 5th grader as a puppet then to try to preserve the status quo? That was my point. Ad hominem is not a valid argument that justifies improper or immoral behavior.
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
It's about hypocrisy.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:05 p.m.
Timmy jumped off a bridge, so I should too! An opposing party behaving improperly is not a valid argument to do so yourself. Rise above.
sh1
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.
Is that a cricket I hear in the background?
Jeff Gaynor
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:41 p.m.
Thanks for covering the rally and posting this article so quickly. You don't say how many attended, but I'm sure there were many more present in spirit. It takes everyone to speak up - no matter which position you have - for democracy to take hold.
Marshall Applewhite
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
Haha, that's right. 100 people there, with another 500,000 there in spirit. Those spirits are really causing a ruckus.
Soothslayer
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 1:40 p.m.
Wow a new low. Using little kids as puppets to protect the status quo and your jobs. We have the worst schools in the union because of the MEA and there are considerable efficiencies to be made in the higher ed public schools & colleges as well. Holding communities, schools and colleges accountable to best practices and performance, how terrible for them.
Tony Livingston
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 10:12 p.m.
The kids are the ones that are affected by this. Dub. Why shouldn't they be there and speak up?
macjont
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 8:24 p.m.
I hope this is not the Andy Jacobs I know. In any event..... The state with the strongest teachers' union in the country is Massachusetts, a state which, incidentally, is recognized as having the strongest public schools in the country. The states with unions that are nonexistent or so weak as to be nonexistent: Florida, Mississippi, Alabama. And those states consistently bring up the rear in terms of their public schools. Andy, you need to educate yourself. Try going back to the Michigan public schools.
Wonderin'
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 5:47 p.m.
That girl spoke her own mind about her own dreams. She's one smart cookie! Here's what your governor did using really little tots by putting words in their mouths: <a href="http://youtu.be/gX3CIVQV10Q" rel='nofollow'>http://youtu.be/gX3CIVQV10Q</a> And if the schools are so bad here, why are you living in Michigan? Feel free to get on board and support Michigan's public school children...or leave.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:59 p.m.
Yeah, how horrible. Because TeapubliKans never use children at their rallies. <a href="http://media.al.com/live/photo/tea-party-april-15-2010jpg-6224c3bb0895bcec.jpg" rel='nofollow'>http://media.al.com/live/photo/tea-party-april-15-2010jpg-6224c3bb0895bcec.jpg</a> Good Night and Good Luck
1bit
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
It's absolutely disgusting. Seriously, instilling fear in your fifth grader to use as a mouthpiece for your own version of politics? Who does that sort of thing? Don't worry, Lexie, you'll be a zoologist if you work hard. It won't matter who is governor or what their policies are.
Sallyxyz
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:52 p.m.
A2 does not have the "worst schools in the union". Go visit schools in the south, Mississippi, for example, if you want to see bad schools. Check out Florida also.
Gorc
Sat, Apr 30, 2011 : 3:34 p.m.
That's twice this week that Annarbor.com has reported the use of kids to deliver a protest.