31 students suspended from Pioneer High School after senior prank

b2a2

Wed, May 18, 2011 : 6:23 a.m.

@E.C.-You renew my hope in your generation. You are thoughtful and considerate. You expressed better than most some of the very real consequences of what is being called merely a silly teenage prank. You appreciate the real human toll inflicted on your coach of trying to fix the damage your age mates caused (I will not call them your peers because you are far more mature than they.) You obviously realize that the amenities on your tennis courts (wind screens etc) cost real money and it is difficult to know if a cash-strapped high school can afford to replace those items any time soon. I applaud your support of your coach and your insight into the "slap on the wrist." I agree with others who said a 5 day suspension for these kids is nothing but a vacation. I had fun when I was in high school but REALLY who could think defecating on the field for others to clean-up was funny?? These kids should be made to repair the damages they caused THEMSELVES--not simply pay the money to make it "go away." $90 is a drop in the bucket for most of these families. They should be made to man-up and let others see them repairing the damage they caused. They should have to break a sweat and maybe even gag a little on the thought of cleaning up another person's excrement. The schools should settle for nothing less than FULL restitution including the manpower (not just the money) to make it happen. Of course this should happen after, as you say, "Every single one of those Pioneer students should apologize personally to Coach Boettcher..." E.C, with your level of empathy and insight you should go far. Clearly you are one teen who has their compass on "true north!" Keep calling 'em as you see 'em, you are definitely on the right track. Your family should be very proud! PS: I bet the parents of the "suspended 31" would give their eye teeth to have THEIR teen THINK and behave more like you! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree-

Vigilare

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 11:08 p.m.

The 'punishment' should be allowing the 31 students to attend the seniors night and read their apologies in front of the class, one at a time.

tater

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 2:28 p.m.

If the comments weren't so sad, they would be funny. As a Huron grad, I think Pioneer did a great job on this. The punishment was enough to make the kids suffer actual consequences for their actions, but they weren't saddled with criminal records because of one night of terrible decision-making. The bottom line is that nobody got hurt, and no permanent damage was done. Even whose who want "an eye for an eye" should be able to see that it is not appropriate to permanently damage a student's record, scholastically or criminally, for something that did no permanent damage to anyone or anything. I think those asking for further punishment should go back over their own lives and ask themselves where they would be if their own standards were applied to every stupid thing they ever did when they were young. Back to the punishment, not going to their party is quite a consequence. They did the prank to be "cool," or whatever the word may be now, and now they have to miss their last chance to show everyone how "cool" they are. The community service will be a total embarassment. If the kids are as priviledged as many think they are, it will probably be the hardest work they have ever had to do, too. The bottom line: many of the comments here are much more criminal in their ignorance than the kids were in their acts.

djm12652

Thu, May 19, 2011 : 8:35 p.m.

nope, not buying it...I went back and have no regrets for my behavior...that being said I also feared not the law, not the judicial system, but my dad should I have disappointed him in anyway...he's 85 now and he can still put us kids in our place...and by the way...we were brought up with manners and would not have thought about even passing gas in front of someone, it was considered rude and crude...so 31 ignorant backwater ridge runners using the outdoor toilet...makes sense...oh this isn't the hills of KY or TN? And until you have a drunken "young" person take a dump by the door of your car while it's parked downtown and pee all over it...don't think it's so prankish...it's not so funny...of course this blog is full of bleeding heart NIMBY's

whoami

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 3:24 a.m.

People are actually so ignorant. I agree, the kids that actually did the illegal acts should be punished, but a. they didn't catch everyone and b. they only have the kids words, they ahve no real evidence White is abusing his power, by harassing and scaring kids If this were taken to court, the case would've been dropped So he was not doing them a favor And, apparently, the police wanted the kids, said White and Hudson, and even Foster When clearly the police had no clue about what had happened The kids were scared into saying what happened, and lying was not an option. Because when they lied hed yell in their face, call them liars and say how he knew what they did, and pound on the table. I'm not sure how appropriate that is. I do not understand why this is concerning so many people, when it clearly does not affect them, and they do not know the whole story.

motheroffour

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 2:54 a.m.

Little Man Syndrome-Mike White created the problem and the only way he knows how to handle is by abusing the privledge of working with children. He is not real tough when adults are around but sure tries to exert influence when he can hide behind a women to do the talking for him. Little man all the way. If a student were to be injured for being denied access to the upcomming senior all night party beacause of Mike White's lack of leadership and understanding of the community focus and purpose of the all night party, let Mike White be coruageous enough to stand up and take responsibility and be accountable. We should encourage all students to attend the all night party becasue it is the safety and interset of all students. Get it Mike White? Many community volunteers have worked endlessly over the year to make it successful and an event that student's prefer over some not supervised activity. You have worn out your welcome in Ann Arbor Mike White. Go someplace where you can exist with a Redford School mentality. Go someplace where you can create a crisis and the be the hero for stepping in and resolving the crisis you have created. Start becoming a man. Even a little man would be better than what you are. You created the problem Mike White. Own up to it.

Suit Hing Moy-Sandusky

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 8:29 p.m.

As a parent of a graduating senior, I am thankful that my child will no longer be subjected to this type of master discipline from a drill sergeant. Yes, I have had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of one of Mr. White's decisions which resulted in a 2 week suspension which was reduced to one after I discussed and prepared by child to defend herself against accusations and coercive tactics applied to affirm the suspension. As a parent, it is my responsibility to discipline and teach my children about their rights and also encourage them to be mature enough to make the right decisions and accept the punishment when they are wrong. What is troubling with this incident is the familiarity with how the facts seem to be presented, "10 or the 31 students were heavily involved" and the rest of the suspended students were either on the schools' property after driving the mischief-makers to the locations or were in the cars, which the district considered trespassing and grounds for suspension, Margolis said." We as parents (and I commend those who stepped forward) need to question whether their rights were violated when they were being questioned about the incident? Where the students coerced into admitting their participation? Let this be an opportunity for parents to become more involved with how these decisions are made and interview the kids and the parents to get a fair and equitable dialogue on how this decision was made regarding the fines, punishment and lessons learned. Congratulations to all the seniors and the best of luck in your future endeavors.

b2a2

Wed, May 18, 2011 : 7:59 a.m.

Really?!? I am the mother of daughters who excel in school and extracurriculars, all-around great girls . I love them dearly, but I also have enough backbone to teach them right from wrong. I would NEVER dream of condoning this type of behavior. No innocent prank, this was malicious and sick (eww...imagine if YOU had to clean up that excrement!) You don't want your little girl, subjected to master discipline. Your child will soon be subjected to a far more unforgiving "drill sergeant"--the State and Federal Criminal Justice system. Which views getting the facts as, getting the facts. Having people tell the truth is not coercion. Were the kids scared because they were in trouble? Well I'm sure they were, as they SHOULD be, they DID something WRONG. It is one thing to be unjustly punished for something you didn't do. But that is not what we have here. Everyone seems to acknowledge all 31 were involved. These kids got off easy. 5 days in front of the flat screen, playing CoD Black Ops and noshing on pizza is not cruel. What did you teach your daughter when she got in trouble? Did you teach her even if she is in the wrong she should not admit it, rather argue her case and get her punishment reduced. When corporate America has difficulty deciphering right from wrong we will resolutely not blame their upbringing from parents who refused to be the bad guy and enforce punishments. Nor will we blame schools too worried about infringing on little Johnnie's "right" to have "Senior" fun and smear his poo around his rival high school. No, when the titans of industry can't find their moral compass, we will say, "No one is to blame--they were just born that way!" Everybody gets off scott-free. But oh yeah, we ALL had to pay for the lack honesty and character that led to the bank/mortgage meltdown. You see, when character fails, someone always ends up paying.

winner

Sun, May 15, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.

OK, I get it. Just fight it even after you KNOW you screwed up. Let's not take personal responsibility, just try and lawyer our way to lesser charge and penalty. Genius!! I wonder how i would have turned out if my parents just made excuses for my behavior. No, those horrible people made me take responsibility. I'll never forgive them.

mt

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.

Certainly many teenagers at many schools do strange things but defecating on public or private property is way beyond acceptable. Evidently, the P stands for Poop. Hats off to the officials that handled the situation and all the excellent student / citizens at Pioneer and all of our schools whose names have been tarnished by the acts of a few.

whoami

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 3:25 a.m.

The P stands for Pioneer, obviously. why does this concern you so much

a2resa2

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:53 a.m.

As a student at pioneer, i am frustrated to see so many people getting up in arms with out knowing most of the facts, and passing their judgements with little or no basis. These kids arent future vandals or criminals, theyre just kids that made mistakes and are paying for them. I think the punishments are fair, and i think that mr. white did a good job handling the situation. Please dont make assumptions about these kids, or the situation, because a lot of what has been said has been way off base.

whoami

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 3:27 a.m.

Freight Train you dont know the real facts...

a2resa2

Sun, May 15, 2011 : 5:17 a.m.

and thank you for proving my point about people who dont know what they are talking about

a2resa2

Sun, May 15, 2011 : 4:53 a.m.

i actually do, i am one of the 31. and no one who got suspended was innocent, all that got suspended were participators. i was just trying to point out that they arent villians or criminals

Freight Train

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 7:01 p.m.

So with your forthright language, I can only assume that you know all of the the real facts? So YOU are completely fine letting innocent students get suspended while those who participated are protected with silence and the all too pervasive "no snitching" attitude? How can you muster up the indignation?

AAmom

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:52 a.m.

I was told by a knowledgeable source that the kids who did the same thing on the U-M stadium were not suspended.

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 3:28 a.m.

ah, yes, no names in the UM stadium 'caper' because they had to sit tighter on that one--the U might not be so lenient against trespassers and vandals, which is essentially what they became when they 'judged' so poorly as they did. I'll bet this came up from the parents of the kids who felt it was 'unfair' that their angels were being forced to, um, clean up their mess a little (figuratively, of course)...that there were others involved who aren't getting punished and it's just not fair boohoo.

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 3:18 a.m.

So, it's all about whether some of the brats who participated in dumb acts of unfunny maliciousness got the same (mild, reasonable) punishments as the others?! Or is there something nefarious in the distinction?!

Tom Holmstrom

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 3:05 a.m.

although I'm not entirely sure, I believe that the ones who hit the stadium were not caught because nobody would give names.

OnTheRight

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:39 a.m.

As adults, even if we believe that these were all basically good kids who didn't mean any real harm, or some of us are remembering our own "stupid teen tricks" and are laughing behind closed doors at what they did, or some of us think that there are bigger crimes and criminals to go after.....let's not forget that we do have a responsibility to teach our kids to use good judgement. Clearly, defacing public property and dumping on the football field is not using good judgement by any standard. The punishment they got seems to fit the crime. These kids are neither victims nor heroes....just a bunch of high school seniors who screwed up because they used poor judgement and made dumb decisions.

winner

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:27 a.m.

I'm sure these students will have great stories to tell at their cocktail parties. And while some of you are amused by this youthful exuberance, we are lucky that no one got seriously hurt doing this. I'm sure the feeling around the high schools would be entirely different had we lost a student in a car accident who was fleeing the scene. Poor behavior is poor behavior, and the students should be held accountable. 10 hours of community service should be done at the two schools they vandalized. The five day suspension is an early vacation for seniors. They should be required to come in and work during the school day to clean the schools they damaged. That way kids in schools will see what happens if they think about committing a similar act.

Kai Petainen

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:22 a.m.

Did they damage something at the stadium?

Tom Holmstrom

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:01 a.m.

I am a teacher at Pioneer and I want to clarify some things for all the readers here. First, Michael White has done wonders for Pioneer High School. His action here is another example. What people need to know is that this was not a "senior prank" by any stretch of the imagination. The "senior scavenger hunt" is a separate thing. Several of the items on the list were not pranks, but true crimes! These included performing oral sex and taking pictures of it, malicious destruction of property at Michigan Stadium, defecating on other schools' football fields, and other vandalism. It also included streaking naked on Pioneer security cameras. To me as a teacher, these are alarming. The students involved were "good kids" but the question is, why are they making these bad decisions? Some clues follow: 1. Unbelievably, even as the students were walking the halls bragging of their scavenger hunt successes and calling the administrators "gay" for having been suspended, some of their parents were in the office confronting Mr. White- attempting to "excuse" their child's behavior! (Sort of in line with some of the comments on this thread... "no big deal", etc.) The parenting is where this starts. Parents: do you know where your child is, whose car they are riding in, what they are doing tonight? Are you upholding common decency and respect, responsibility and accountability with your child? Parents who do not are making my (and other teachers') job so much more difficult.

Sunnyside

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.

"Tom Holmstrom" - Science teacher at PHS (am I right?) brings up some good points, even if his evidence is skewed. For example: "Malicious destruction of property at Michigan Stadium"? Where? @ say it plain: "Maybe they should just cancel this all-school all-night party or whatever it is" This event is the All Senior All Night Party. This party takes place every year after Pioneer HS's graduation ceremony. It is a lock-in that lasts until the morning, keeping graduates away from drugs and alcohol, or at least off the roads while under the influence. Its purpose is to keep students safe, because there are enough awful stories of high school graduation celebrations turning into fatal car crashes and alcohol poisoning. Canceling this event is ludicrous. While I understand that the administration is looking for a way to punish the 31, and it was too late to prevent their attendance at Prom, preventing them from the ASAN party is kind of stupid. These kids, who are known to have made stupid choices, will now be out and about following their graduation ceremony. Free to make more stupid, potentially life-threatening decisions. Huh.

mike

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 8:49 a.m.

In any case, "Mr. Holmstrom," take care to protect your own identity before spreading possible libel. Most of that stuff never happened - you were either lied to by the administration, believed rampant rumors, or made all of that up yourself.

mike

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 8:47 a.m.

Avid professional hockey fanatic and political conservative? Who else could it be?

a2resa2

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:30 a.m.

There is not Holmstrom registered as a teacher at Pioneer

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 3:12 a.m.

I am *so* sorry you have to deal with such things @Tom Holmstrom, how truly terrible and what a terrible reflection on the kids and their parents that they would be trying to make excuses for this behavior. Maybe they should just cancel this all-school all-night party or whatever it is...or cancel graduation altogether. Sounds like a whole bunch of bullies and a culture that celebrates it...calling their suspension 'gay'?! In allegedly beyond-this-garbage Ann Arbor?! Ew. Imagine how 'gay' it would be to lay their whole class's no-all-night-party scene on their 'poor judging' heads?! That would be so awesome :-) !

OnTheRight

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:52 a.m.

Thank you for such a frank comment. The behavior of the students (and their parents) is disturbing to read about but must be extremely frustrating to deal with on a daily basis. When parents undermine discipline at school, it must make teaching harder.

a2citizen

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:07 a.m.

I was a bit forgiving of their antics until you mentioned they vandalized Michigan Stadium. The legal system should be engaged.

Tom Holmstrom

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:05 a.m.

2. Some people still have not learned that you judge a tree by its fruit. These kids may have been decent performers in the classroom... because they want the good grades to which they feel they are entitled. But for so many of them, the lack of clear understanding of right from wrong - the intrinsically destructive nature of these acts, for example, overshadows whatever academic or athletic accomplishments they are reveling in. I can speak from so many experiences... from students turing in plagiarized work and thinking there was nothing wrong with it, to bullying, to cheating and on and on. Bottom line: Michael White has integrity and fortitude. He is trying to teach these students what they have failed to learn thus far. IMHO, if our country's people had more personal accountability, we'd be in much better shape than we are now. If you are one of the students who got suspended, realize that you got off easy and that you let your school down.

Sunnyside

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:10 a.m.

Bad decisions and vandalism coming from high school seniors is nothing new. You may not have been one of them during your senior year, but you know they were there, and (shocker) they are still here. In-school suspension would have made sense, but the punishment they received just allows them to start summer a week early. Parents should probably punish their kids in some form (if the kids are actually guilty) but at this age, parents can only do so much to control their kids' actions. Community service with Michael D. White will be no joke. He has turned the Senior Scavenger Hunt into being Senior Pranks, and is treating it very seriously. Hopefully this time will be spent doing something that will truly benefit the community or the other schools. For those of you asking for more serious punishment... The range of kids who were suspended is wide. There are the kids who committed the crimes. They deserve the punishment they got, and many of them deserve worse. But there are also the kids who sat there while their friends made bad choices, but are not personally guilty for anything. Passivity does not warrant being kept from walking at graduation. And I don't know if the administration has any way to find out the whole truth, but there are plenty of kids still in school that simply got lucky, avoiding interrogation and suspension. The kids who won the scavenger hunt are still in school. So don't be so quick to throw just those unlucky 31 into the flames. Pioneer had the first prom/senior scavenger hunt this year. They went big, and got sent home. Huron's scavenger hunt was last night, and was pretty much harmless. They learned from Pioneer's mistakes, and they would have been stupid not to, but don't be so convinced that the Huron scavenger hunt would have been completely harmless and legal, had theirs been first. The two schools' senior classes are not that different.

CincoDeMayo

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:36 p.m.

@ Jan Engholm The inconsistencies that you describe at Pioneer are exactly the inconsistencies I see in the "real world". I'm not sure of the consequences of our students feeling that sense of unfairness and powerless in high school is a good thing or a bad thing, but surely they will recognize it in the larger world as they grow. And, it is sad. However, I do believe in the larger world that those with lower incomes, and in minority cultures, are far more familiar with it than others. So, maybe, just maybe, if some of those "captured" in this big net happen to be in a more privileged class, they will at least remember the feeling and the unfairness of consequences unevenly applied. As they grow into adulthood, maybe the memory will give them the ability to recognize these inequities when they occur to others who are less powerful. I agree with the principal's consequences - He kept a lot of students out of our overly legalized system. Without knowing everything, but knowing enough, he gave a compromise to many. Basically a large group of students got an intermediate consequence, whether they were directly responsible or not, and a lesser group of students who maybe could have been criminally charged was spared the court system and everything that that entails. While I agree with that and hope that the students who were not as involved can see the wisdom in it, I also applaud the passion that the students have for a sense of fairness. I hope they remember how it feels as they progress through their lives and find themselves in positions where they can make a difference.

Jan Engholm

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:39 a.m.

Who among us doesn't wish we'd been less stupid at some point in our lives? Should we be held accountable for our dumb actions (kids and adults)? Absolutely. However, what bugs me a lot about Pioneer is that consequences for wrongdoings are amazingly inconsistent. Sometimes a first offense will bring down the wrath of the principals, while at other times a repeated crime will be be overlooked. Sometimes a parent with a lawyer can make the school back down. There are times when certain kids get punished for an offense, while others caught at the same time get no consequences at all. There are other instances where, in the administration's witch hunt for information, a kid who rats out other participants gets a less-harsh punishment than one who doesn't name names. I'm not sure if you need to be rich or poor, if you need to be white or black, or if you just need to be lucky. Pioneer's stated policies are really unevenly enforced, and I'll bet the kids at that school---watching, listening to and learning from their principals---have become very cynical indeed. What a sad thing!

jns131

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:39 p.m.

I hate to say it, but I agree with Mr Whites punishment stand point. But get real, didn't we all at one point all get in trouble before graduation? To a point this is all petty stuff up to the vandalism. Up to that point? Pretty amusing if you ask me.

E

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:10 p.m.

As a tennis player at Huron, I feel that these students are getting off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. First of all, let's be clear. Not only did they cut our nets, but they also cut holes in our windscreens and destroyed other things around the courts. Every single one of those Pioneer students should apologize personally to Coach Boettcher who spends time every year putting up the tennis nets and wind screens for us. He is an amazing person and should not have had to deal with this bulls***. He got to the courts that day and had to replace 5 or 6 of those nets by himself, and anyone who has tried putting up nets will know that it's not an easy task. If we ever get new nets and new windscreens (since the Huron athletics department doesn't seem to care too much about their tennis teams), those Pioneer students should be the ones putting them up, not Coach Boettcher.

b2a2

Wed, May 18, 2011 : 6:19 a.m.

E.C.-You renew my hope in your generation. Your comments are thoughtful and considerate. You expressed better than most some of the very real consequences of what is being called merely a silly teenage prank. You appreciate the real human toll inflicted on your coach of trying to fix the damage your age mates caused (I will not call them your peers because you are far more mature than they.) You obviously realize that the amenities on your tennis courts (wind screens etc) cost real money and it is difficult to know if a cash-strapped high school can afford to replace those items any time soon. I applaud your support of your coach and your insight into the "slap on the wrist." I agree with others who said a 5 day suspension for these kids is nothing but a vacation. I had fun when I was in high school but REALLY who could think defecating on the field for others to clean-up was funny?? These kids should be made to repair the damages they caused THEMSELVES--not simply pay the money to make it "go away." $90 is a drop in the bucket for most of these families. They should be made to man-up and let others see them repairing the damage they caused. They should have to break a sweat and maybe even gag a little on the thought of cleaning up another person's excrement. The schools should settle for nothing less than FULL restitution including the manpower (not just the money) to make it happen. Of course this should happen after, as you say, "Every single one of those Pioneer students should apologize personally to Coach Boettcher..." E.C, with your level of empathy and insight you should go far. Clearly you are one teen who has their compass on "true north!" Keep calling 'em as you see 'em, you are definitely on the right track. Your family should be very proud! PS: I bet the parents of the "suspended 31" would give their eye teeth to have THEIR teen THINK and behave more like you! The apple doesn't fall far from

petesdragon

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:08 p.m.

These future leaders of America undoubtedly were bragging (i.e. couldn't keep their traps shut [which shows their level of intelligence, LOL]) about their super-human feats. And brag they should - all 2 year olds tell people when they go POOP or say "lookey what I just drew" no matter where they drew it. Walk at graduation? Absolutely.........in diapers with pacifiers in their mouths.

Freight Train

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 6:51 p.m.

@petes. You are correct. There was plenty of bragging. I heard some of it spilling out first hand while waiting in line at Panera.

a2resa2

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:33 a.m.

I'm a student at pioneer. no one was bragging.

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:54 a.m.

WHAT are you talking about except your own imagination? "undoubtedly bragging" "couldn't keep their traps shut" Where are you getting this from?

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 1:13 a.m.

maybe so @Hank L., but at heart it was clearly the equivalent of 'spraying' on the other guy's territory, you know? Defacing their fields, their scoreboards, it comes off as infantile, and it comes from a place of needing/wanting to establish 'gotcha' cred against your 'rivals', of expressing social 'power' as it were, as one tries to do in 'bragging'. Even if it wasn't because they couldn't stop themselves from talking about it with their non-involved peers that got them 'caught', it still seems so stupidly 'brag'-oriented as an act, you know? Not very amusing at all, imho.

Hank L.

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:05 a.m.

I don't think they bragged about this.

rossjohnson

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:36 p.m.

I happen to know a few of these students and they are not bad people, they just made a stupid mistake.

squidlover

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:04 a.m.

I wouldn't classify them as bad people (yet). However, this was not only stupid, but also a malicious and disgusting act that needs to be punished; hopefully to the point that such an incredible lapse in judgment does not happen again.

Alfred Williamson

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:33 p.m.

When we become disillusioned by the bleak landscape which is your society (adult society), us youth, we enter a state of rebellion against the drear and hopelessness of your system (adult authority): Rebellion, I am. Executioner of the orders. Indiscriminately firing my words like fatal bullets, Puncturing the rims of your authority; inflicting you with agony. Hear my gun shots loud and clear, Let them echo in the caves of your ear. I carry with me an intense heat Burning like a fire; fueling this rebellious desire. The sparks entice me, with their luminous glow. The blaze ignites upon your every attempt of control. I oppose you with a passion A passion so dire; It tenses my muscles, protrudes my veins, blurs my sight, heaves my emotions; for I am only capable of frustration in the face of hopelessness. They regard it a loss of sanity- this rebellion, rebellion I am.

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:49 a.m.

I loves me some subversion, some teen rebellion, but this wasn't that! You aren't really saying it was, are you?! This was just maliciousness, gross maliciousness, perpetrated against crosstown rivals. Don't glorify it please, because *that* is not glorious. These acts weren't some punkrock raging against the machine lol, it was crapping on the other guys fields and tennis courts, after all! If we accept this as some form of true rebellion we are in sorry shape!

petesdragon

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.

OK rebellion has a reason and a cause. What statement was made by deficating?

Alfred Williamson

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:51 p.m.

Okay I will break this one down for you jcj. The first sentence is a preface to a poem. The poem describes the individual rebellious desire of one youth; however the preface clearly extrapolates upon the poem showing that the poem can serve as an explanation for rebellious youth culture as a whole.

jcj

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:46 p.m.

You think your the first or only one that rebelled against authority?

Skyjockey43

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:31 p.m.

For those of you saying we should all just "lighten up" about this harmless little high school prank, let me come over to your place tonight, defecate on your lawn and spray paint my initials all over your house. Then when I tell you to just lighten up, you'll just chuckle and congratulate me on a prank well done right?

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:27 a.m.

or better yet, how about if I just say that you defecated on my lawn, and hold you responsible? Even if someone else did it? Or not? And threaten your job or further education without you having any recourse? I am not a parent who says we should "lighten up"-not at all, believe me-ask my kids-but if you are going to accuse people, you need to have some evidence. That is the law.

Kai Petainen

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:30 p.m.

I think the principal handled it correctly. But if you want to teach them something, show them how to correctly bury their poop as folks must do at some national parks. Give them a small orange shovel to dig a hole and a fig leaf to clean up. Leave no trace.

a2citizen

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:59 p.m.

Quit your whining if your not smart enough to not get caught.

a2citizen

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:50 p.m.

What are you kids learning in school? Just spray paint the lenses or cut the cables...jeez

Dude454

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:10 p.m.

Pioneer has cameras in every corner. Ever sense Mr white took office, school Is like prison.

Bogie

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.

Good job, Mr. White. So many times now, administrators feel they have to turn everything over to the judicial system. I'm sure their parents, will issue the proper punishment. @ indicat. I would have been in the cell next to you! LOL!

Tanzor

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:38 p.m.

I am disgusted at what these kids did, I can understand a prank and have pulled a few my self but to defecate on the playing field is beyond a prank. Think of the kids at Skyline and Huron who play sports and have to practice every on these fields soiled by feces of the juvenile Pioneer brats. I applaud the actions of the three principals in working out a punishment for the students and not involving the police. However, for those students who actually pooped on the fields the punishment does not go far enough. These kids need to learn a lesson; apparently they think it funny to deposit their feces where other kids will do stretching, exercise, warm-ups and etc. I hope the parents of these kids read this. If my child did this I'd put him or her back in diapers for a weekend of potty training. Obviously the first time around didn't work so well.

shrewdrealist

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 10:52 p.m.

"Think of the kids at Skyline and Huron who play sports and have to practice every on these fields soiled by feces..." ROFL

Christine Moellering

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.

Am I the only one to notice they went to both Skyline and Huron but left out Community High? I wonder if that's a comment on the state of our public education? They didn't bug the school where everyone is happy.

a2resa2

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:36 a.m.

wowww @say it plain

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.

Yeah, it's all about crosstown rivals, and CHS can't be a 'rival' if they don't have sports teams, quite simple. It's rather insulting that your conclusion has to do with 'happiness', frankly; maybe it speaks more to the smugness of that particular alternative, just to say ;-)

EyeHeartA2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:55 p.m.

They actually did drop a "package" of sorts on the steps. The kids at commie high figured it was art and so it went unnoticed. I think somebody is doing a Sr. thesis on it.

Hank L.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:45 p.m.

The thing about Skyline and Huron is that they're crosstown-rivals. Community High School is an Alternative Liberal Arts High School that has no athletic teams whatsoever. Furthermore, classes at Community are offered to Pioneer, Skyline, and Huron students via "split-enrollment", and if a student wishes to pursue competitive sports or be in a class at one of the main high-schools, they may do so at one of the three schools (usually the one they are districted to go to).

squidlover

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:14 p.m.

Instead of a regular 5 day suspension, which will likely result in the students playing video games, watching TV, playing on the computer, etc... I would favor each of those 5 days being used for 5 hours of community service with a caveat that if these days are not fulfilled, it will be added to their record for when potential colleges request them. Hopefully this way these students wouldn't view it as a 5 day vacation as a result of their actions. Plus, 25 hours of community service multiplied by 31 students can accomplish something positive.

Hank L.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:12 p.m.

Student here, and this is my opinion on the whole matter... The district refused to do any fact checking before sentencing these students to punishment, and suspended all of these students on the basis of weak and forced testimony. The very fact that Ms. Margolis mentions that "Huron and Skyline have accepted the punishments" strongly suggests that Pioneer was pressured to "do something" about these crimes, even though no school officials (or police, or anyone else outside the scavenger hunt group) witnessed them, and there is only weak circumstantial evidence (student testimony under immense pressure) suggesting that any of the suspended people did anything. There is, of course, an appeal process for suspension. Too bad the district screwed that up, too. The district threatened to tell colleges that the affected students vandalized property if they tried to assert their innocence by appealing, which is libel if the appealing student is actually innocent. This is beyond ridiculous, because it provides no recourse for innocent students. These students had two options: either pay the restitution and serve a suspension for something they did not do, or try to appeal and risk having their good name ruined by the district. There was no semblance of any due process for any of the accused students because there was not only insufficient evidence to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that they were indeed the ones that participated in these crimes, they were all pressured into signing confessions under dubious conditions. Many of the 31 students continue to maintain their innocence outside of these forced signatures.

Hank L.

Sun, May 15, 2011 : 5 a.m.

Holmstrom is probably a teacher at Pioneer protecting his identity, which I give him credit for. Anyways, let's not assume anything. Remember "innocent until proven guilty"? Some of these kids are innocent. I know of one case where a student in my class (who I know did not partake in the scavenger hunt) was pulled out to be yelled at by the administration, but when they realized they had made a "mistake" by accidentally putting him on the list. Completely innocent, and was released after finding this error.

Freight Train

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 6:27 p.m.

Hank, you and the "innocent" students need to take a reality check. If you are so sure about how it all went down then you hold the card to your own innocence. Start singing. If you feel fine about allowing those who did carry out these acts to get off with no consequence then you either support them or you lack the moral constitution to call them out. Time to grow up.

1bit

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 11:24 a.m.

"Sitting idly in the back seat of a car or simply witnessing the crime without helping is not helping the perpetrators..." Long-winded nonsense but I voted you up for being so confident in your moral outrage and self-righteousness. If you're in a getaway car from a bank heist you are an accessory or, at a minimum, an idiot. The "punishment" in this case is about as mild as it gets so accepting it and moving on is what should be done. The "innocent" are welcome to fight it, as is their right. The problem is their defense usually comes out sounding as juvenile as what you wrote (e.g.. "You didn't see me do it, so I can't be punished.") and most people just roll their eyes and think you're as guilty as sin. You are also welcome to lecture on how to parent when you have children of your own - there is significant value in group punishment.

mike

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 8:09 a.m.

Tom Holmstrom: Have you seen any incriminating photographs on Facebook? From all 31 students, proving that they all committed crimes? Really? I can't seem to find you on Facebook - are you sure that they exist, and that the administration saw them? The assertion that witnessing a crime without immediately running away from the scene is a crime in itself is an absolute fallacy. In order to be considered an accessory to the crime, the students must have knowingly helped the perpetrators either commit the crime or escape from the crime scene. Sitting idly in the back seat of a car or simply witnessing the crime without helping is not helping the perpetrators commit or get away with the crime at all. Even if the students who were not directly involved helped in some way, there is still not enough direct evidence (have you actually seen the photographs in question, or have you just heard rumors?) to convict them. Simple knowledge that the crime occurred (and any subsequent failure to report it) is not a punishable offense under any reasonable jurisdiction. But all of that is absolutely irrelevant. The point is not whether getting in the car was wrong or not. The point is that the district used unfair tactics to effectively deny any of the affected students their rights to due process. They automatically assumed guilt upon hearing names, and nobody was given a proper opportunity to defend themselves. Whether students were innocent or guilty does not matter to the administration. They were required to punish somebody, so they suspended anyone they could get their hands on. "Just accept the punishment and move on" is not a lesson you want to be passing on to your own children. Innocent people are innocent, and they should be able to stand up for themselves if wrongfully accused. Full disclosure: neither I nor Hank L. were suspended in this incident, but do know people who were.

Therealdeal

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:42 a.m.

Why yes, due process is required by the district. So we are very much so entitled to it.

Therealdeal

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:31 a.m.

@petesdragon Yes, if you knew the whole story which you clearly don't then it'd make sense as to why my parents got the advice of lawyers we know. you come so quick to judge, I did not cut any nets, spray paint anything, or crap on a field. you are so quick to judge every single one who was involved with this from the little knowledge of the situation you gained from reading this story. You know NOTHING about what anyone went through. Almost every single one of the kids that got suspend I know would rather be at school and the kids that managed to get away with it because they for some reason weren't ratted out by someone are the ones wishing they were out of school. Criminals? The fact is they can't turn us over to the cops, they have NO evidence. The sad thing is they don't get our side of the story. You hear how AMAZINGLY Mr. White handled this situation and he gets hailed as a hero. The most infuriating thing was to watch the news reports today. One of them said we ruined the scavenger hunt for the other kids, the other kids are lucky we got caught to take the heat off them. They were all committing crimes, some of which much more severe then this. Like I said, if I wasn't afraid of what else could happen to me for speaking of what happened. How it was handled by the admins, I would. Now THAT would be a story. Read the original post, that explains more then this awful news article.

Tom Holmstrom

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:19 a.m.

You are awfully good at being "entitled" to a lot of "due process" after these crimes were committed. The fact is, many of the acts were photographed and some of the kids even put the pics on their facebook pages! Of course the district couldn't discern who exactly did what... mostly because kids won't tell on each other. The ones who "won" the scavenger hunt are still in school, in fact. Those of you who got caught, however, should still consider yourselves lucky; you did not have to deal with the law. Next time, think before you get in a car with people who you know are going out to commit a crime, and don't sit idly by while they it. You shouldn't be trying to find ANY excuses for it. Be thankful that your punishment is slight.

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:40 a.m.

are there police reports and evidence that ties these kids to this? I agree that kids should face consequences from their actions, absolutely, but it seems Mr. White can be a bit heavy handed, and I would like to see some evidence before we all get carried away with making assumptions.

petesdragon

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:26 p.m.

Student there - this was a long process and I'm sure the sweet little darlings mommy's and daddy's had plenty of time to hire lawyers or get legal advice. I would deny it too if my disgusting behavior became common knowledge to the WHOLE STUDENT BODY. Don't be too gullible and listen to the whinners. I'm sure the school did not make veiled threats without something to back it up. You'll never hear that side of the story from your friends the criminals.

1bit

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:16 p.m.

Therealdeal: This is your first real lesson in life. It is guilt by association. It is being stomped upon by someone more powerful than you, with no recourse but to swallow it. You can be bitter about it or you can move on. None of us are innocent. We might not be guilty of the crime accused, but there was some other crime we probably got away with. Call it bad karma. I don't know you. You're probably a good kid who got caught up in this. It's probably unfair to you. But life is unfair and adults deal with this all the time. All you can do is try your best. Choose your friends and associations carefully. Don't let the posters on here or your punishment get you down because no one will remember this in a few years.

Therealdeal

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:37 p.m.

They have taken advantage of the fact we can't appeal, it would take to much time. By then we would be out of school. The fact is they have taken advantage of us and don't allow us to protest this at all. There has been no due process and there is no due process which is required in the district policy. Dare I even mention that this is the first time in writing that I have seen my punishment. It is pathetic that I should read a news article to learn about my punishment. Thank god I decided to get on Annarbor.com to read this article because now I know the amount I have to pay in restitution. People are so ignorant to think that we all come from wealthy families and influential parents. There were WAY WAY more people that did much more severe things than us. However those kids who do have money and influential parents aren't the ones getting in trouble. I'm not bad mouthing the administration, and I can say more things but am afraid of getting in trouble even more. I feel like I have been treated wrongly and after my family has consulted two lawyers they say there has been questionable actions taken by the administration, but nothing there is nothing we can do. I strongly believe that all 31 of us have been treated unfairly.

Hank L.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:19 p.m.

Of course, all of the affected students are keeping quiet about the blatant abuse and coercion because the district threatened them. The notion that the district is "doing the students a favor" by "not turning them into the police" is ridiculous, since no reasonable prosecutor could come up with a case with so little evidence, and no reasonable jury could convict the students with so little evidence. The school didn't turn this over to the criminal justice system because the criminal justice system requires real evidence, and there was absolutely no real evidence in this case. The students would have been prosecuted anyway if there had been sufficient evidence to convict them, regardless of any disiplinary action the school took against them. But there was no evidence. If the district had pressured the police to handle the case, there would have been exactly 31 acquittals, and the administration would have looked foolish. What the district did constitutes could be considered straight up blackmail. At the very least, it committed a serious civil offense against the suspended students. Not only is the school demanding monetary compensation from possibly innocent students, it is wrongfully pressuring innocent students into not appealing. This is exactly the type of incident that desensitizes young people to abuses in our criminal justice system later in life. What happens if one of the innocent students is accused of a crime they did not commit? The district needs to realize that bad things do happen sometimes, but blaming and suspending random students just to have a scapegoat and to raise money for damaged property is wrong. It doesn't matter if there were some students who were rightfully suspended - I'm sure there were. What matters is that there were, more likely than not, innocent students who were suspended, who are now too afraid to speak out because of the insidious threats that were levied against them by the district.

pioneerseniors

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:20 p.m.

More than half the kids who got suspended are innocent. Pioneer says that they are protecting students by not pressing charges against them, but in reality, there is simply not enough evidence for anyone to be found guilty. A few kids committed inexcusable vandalism, and if they were arrested they would have to face the charges. They didn't get arrested though, because they got away with it! Good for them! If there was enough evidence convicting them then they would be punished. You can't punish a group of innocent people with the hopes that you'll catch a few guilty ones with them.

a2resa2

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:39 a.m.

i mean, you arent innocent if youre part of the group

1bit

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 1 a.m.

pioneerseniors: We are all responsible for each other. In the group, the innocent should have stopped the guilty. The guilty now carry the burden of seeing their innocent friends subjected to a penalty. It is difficult at times to separate the wheat from the chaff. Lesson learned. It's not the end of the world. No one will care in a few years and it will be a good conversation piece at your 20 year reunion.

mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:35 p.m.

*assume that all 31 students are automatically guilty.

mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:29 p.m.

Why is everything "guilty until proven innocent" when it comes to high school students? I find it disturbing that the author of this article and the majority of commenters here that all 31 students are automatically guilty.

pioneerseniors

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:43 p.m.

um, what what?

arborlib

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:25 p.m.

Um, what?

Gramma

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:04 p.m.

If these attitudes were applied to all kids equally, I'd have no problem with it. However, when destructive behavior by "good kids from good families" (read folks with financial means, social status, and privilege) is a prank, but the same behavior by poor kids is considered vandalism and treated as a criminal act, I take exception. Check out who ends up in juvenile detention and compare their actions to those of these 31 "good kids."

TheInfamousOne

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:44 p.m.

Honestly, writing a large purple "P" on the turf field? Did those students honestly think they would not figure out who it was? I wonder which gifted genius came up with that idea? And 10 hours of community service at Pioneer is quite a slap on the wrist. As someone mentioned earlier on this thread, it should have been set to community service at Huron and Skyline.

Dude454

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:23 p.m.

All activities that were done stupid or not was part of the scavenger hunt. The person with the most scavenger hunting points wins and groups compete for first place. And the kids aren't bad kids. They are just crazy kids. (regular kids) -student

John B.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:12 p.m.

So if the scavenger hunt had a line item that said "kill two people," that would be OK?

Gramma

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:06 p.m.

Scavenger hunts usually include finding specific things not destroying them

kms

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:49 p.m.

I think the punishments are appropriate however I doubt this will serve as a cautionary tale for future classes. These kids were warned in numerous senior class assemblies that this sort of behavior would not be tolerated.

Gramma

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:58 p.m.

There's no lesson in warning that a behavior will not be tolerated, if it is then tolerated.

heresmine

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:32 p.m.

Pretty brainless. So, they get to walk, which isn't the same as graduating. Do they graduate? What about the suspension? Doesn't that result in a drop in GPA? If I remember correctly, unexcused absences, which these should be, drop your grades for each day missed. Wouldn't it have been better to do the community service at the damaged schools instead of Pioneer? Now Pioneer gets to benefit from, what, 310 hours of service? I'm sure Huron and Skyline would like some help also.

Sunnyside

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.

School-mandated absences, such as suspensions, are excused. Students who are suspended are still expected to complete school assignments. It will be the responsibility of the suspended seniors to ensure that they remain eligible to graduate. And the policy of dropping grades for unexcused absences is no longer in effect.

jcj

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:30 p.m.

While I generally feel there is no need to have this on their permanent record I agree with DonBee. Having them stay home for 5 days isn't the right kind of "punishment" . They should have to spend some evenings or Saturdays taking etiquette classes at their expense!

coachman

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:20 p.m.

My goodness, if this happened in Saline those kids would be burned at the stake. It is refreshing to see that administrators actually have a brain and can think about what is best, and not just look into an antiquated manuel for their answers.

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 12:29 a.m.

why I don't live in Saline, I guess! I want these kids around to pay social security!

ummsw

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6 p.m.

Let's not forget every "For Sale" Real Estate sign in Ann Arbor put on the lawn at PHS that faces Stadium. coming down Stadium in AM..it was a sight...I think the punishment was to fix the lawn...

say it plain

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.

When did they do that?! Now, *that* is a good prank lol...

Bucky Dornster

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:56 p.m.

Pioneer students have a long, upstanding history of poop humor. I'd heard back in the 1970s a Pioneer senior, who went on to become an upstanding member of the local community I might add, floated an aqua turd in a backyard pool at a predominatly-Huron party. Got away with it, too!

frozenhotchocolate

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:52 p.m.

well this made it to fark, so congrats kids, for the rest of your life you will be remember for being knucklheads.

whoami

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 3:32 a.m.

How old are you guys? does it really feel good to sink to a lower level and bash on teenagers? Really?

Gramma

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 8:08 p.m.

Maybe they'll be known as the Kings of Poop

Roadman

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:51 p.m.

I would have supported the pressing of criminal charges; this was intentional behavior. A teen who has a little too much to drink (or drinks any alcohol at all) who is apprehended by police is rigorously arrested, prosecuted and receives all the stigma and disrepute of that conviction and the financial consequences that accompany such proceedings. In this case the conduct was malicious and caused damage in the thousands of dollars. Worse, it shows disrespect for others and their property. The outrage that must be felt by those who are the victims of this stupid behavior should be considered also. The school's sanctions are not a bar to City Attorney prosecution and it is my hope that the authorities take appropriate legal action.

Bogie

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.

Great. Another cop and lawyer show at school. Let them pay their restitution, and have the parents deal with them. Very seldom does a prank, cause a divorce; kill a person on the road; cause spouse and child abuse. Alcohol does. Schools use to handle all incidents on a personal basis. They'd bring the parent in, and work it out. Now, we have good teenagers with records, that do, and will affect the rest of their lives. Chill out.

skfina2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:22 p.m.

It would be interesting to see if any of the 31 suspended students are de-admitted from the college of their choice due to their suspensions. that would be the worst punishment of all.

TXteacher

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:01 p.m.

What happened to putting a Mickey Mouse face on the clock tower at Pioneer, releasing crickets in the library, or taking apart and putting together a VW bug above the entrance at Pioneer. These were funny and fairly harmless pranks. We see destruction of property as much more acceptable today. Senior pranks are supposed to be funny, not destructive!

whoami

Mon, May 16, 2011 : 3:32 a.m.

Scavenger Hunt, not prank

catfishrisin

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:03 p.m.

well said

Sallyxyz

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.

These "really good kids" who made a very poor decision, maybe aren't such really good kids after all. Defecating on football fields in public? This is ludicrous and goes way beyond a "senior prank." Cutting athletic nets and using spray paint to vandalize property is vandalism, and these vandals should have been arrested accordingly. If anyone else did this on these properties, they would have been arrested. Stop coddling these vandals and let them suffer the consequences that anyone else would have suffered for the same offenses. They should NOT be allowed to walk at the graduation ceremony. They have lost that privilege. Enough slaps on the wrist with these teenage vandals. Get tough now, or it may escalate in the future, as they feel they will be bailed out because they are "really good kids."

Will Warner

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.

Sally, are you saying you never put poop in a paper bag, dropped the bag on somebody's porch, lit it on fire, rang the doorbell, and ran away while imagining the homeowner stompping out the fire and getting poop on his shoe! It doesn't sound funny now, but it sure did then. No? I guess it's a boy thing. The boys in my neigbhorhood did all sorts of dump stuff like this, but the adults saw potential in us, "coddled us" and "bailed us out" (actually, they led us) and guess what -- it didn't "escalete."

a2resa2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:04 p.m.

They made a poor decision, they are not "teenage vandals," just kids that made a mistake and are being punished for it

a2roots

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5 p.m.

They are kids...whether you like them or not because of the thought they are silver spoons is off base. High school kids make dumb decisions. Cuffs and the legal system not warranted. Ought to be mad because they were dumb enough to get caught.

Jon Saalberg

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:17 p.m.

As the parent of two teenagers, I don't condone the acts described in this story - however, I think there are a lot of people who seem to have forgotten what it's like to be a teenager, and the way a teenage brain works. They are NOT adults. Is there anyone commenting here who really thinks these acts merited ruining a teen's high school record? Really?

Cloudmaster

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 5:04 a.m.

Get off my lawn.

petesdragon

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:48 p.m.

When I was a Senior I was expected to behave as an adult AND I was taught right from wrong. Jon do you set the example in your home by thinking like a high school student?

a2resa2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:05 p.m.

Agree!

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:58 p.m.

I don't think that consideration of a teen's 'stellar' record should be part of this decision, though I feel the restraint in charging with crimes is 'right' here. If these kids had no *criminal* record, I would like to see this dealt with in such a way that this sort of baggage might be avoided for them. If these kids had any kind of in-the-school-system 'discipline' records going, then I'd want to see them banned from the graduation ceremony too. And surely they should be reasonably banned from any further school-sanctioned activity celebrating the seniors moving on, because their *poor judgment* was so darned poor that they embarrassed their school bigtime! Bigtime! I think feeling ashamed would be in order. I think they should write *lots* of apologies, to their parents, to their classmates, to their teachers!

a2roots

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:49 p.m.

don't usually agree with you on much but this time I do.

Sallyxyz

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.

Yes.

HaeJee

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.

If these kids would have been charged and placed through our legal system, do you really think they would get a harsher punishment? Majority of the time, first offenses are less than a slap on the hand. I think the embarrassment on the social network and everyone finding out who they are will be the worst punishment. Personally, I would have had the kids do community service picking up trash at the other two high schools. I can appreciate consequences for poor decided actions, but surprised on the harshness by some of the posters. It sounds like they forgot what it was like to be a teenager. Teenagers are not known for making the best decisions. True communities handle situations like this, while larger cities trap people in a system. I am very impressed with how AAPS handled this situation.

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:49 p.m.

I understand and accept the validity of your position @Sallyxyz, but I'd hope that if it were Ypsi high kids they would be dealt with similarly. I think needing to pay restitution and needing to work community service if this were first offenses would be absolutely the right thing to do, and while I realize that 'justice' is unfortunately not blind in our world, I'd want the same done for any high school kids whom we subject to such crazy mixed messages about how to treat 'rivals'.

Sallyxyz

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:44 p.m.

The only way teenagers are going to learn from their mistakes is to have real consequences for their bad decisions, like anyone else. They should have been arrested just like any other person, or teen, would have been if they committed these acts. Do you seriously think that if high school kids from Ypsi committed these acts, that they would not have been arrested?

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.

I agree; but I also think its fine not to have them do community service at the other schools, because I wouldn't want to continue the possibility that base-less resentments continue. Cleaning up Pioneer is as good as cleaning up Skyline or Huron, because after all we are all one school system! We don't even have to get all kumbaya forgoshsakes, we are a small town and our friends and neighbors go to those other high schools, c'mon, kids, why would you think this is funny now?! Yes, I think AAPS can help teach these kids something they apparently didn't know about how to treat their peers! We can't merely say kids will be kids but we do make sure it is clear that such action is nothing but weird, cowardly, bullying...

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:05 p.m.

@lumberg48108, I agree that teenagers acting in groups do stupid things, their brains and bodies are developing in ways that cloud their reason, this can be proven ;-) But the particulars of the acts are culturally contextualized, and clearly our huge obsession over 'school' allegiances and chest-beating glorified on reality-TV and in sports-obsessed American (male in particular of course ;-) ) culture AFFECTS stuff! Perhaps Pioneer's 'proud' history of school spirit and athletic success on the fields of varsity battle might be doing some of its magic here! The response should be to avoid pressing down hard, because that might feel like hypocrisy to such kids...but to IMPRESS upon the kids how ridiculous and destructive and unthinking such behavior truly is and how we're all *the same*, doesn't matter what school we go to or what colors we wear :-)

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:08 p.m.

Or, perhaps I should say "we're ONE, but we're not the same....we get to carry each other" lol, not crap on each other....

drut_ferguson

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 3:47 p.m.

The real question is how were those kids able to poop on demand?

Lola

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:51 p.m.

"Ann Arbor Public Schools spokesperson Liz Margolis said about 10 of the 31 students were heavily involved in the May 5 incident...." They weren't. Only 10 of them had to poo at the time which can be inferred from the above quote. Still, their intestinal tracts seemed to be exquisitely synchronized! I suggest it wasn't planned (the pooing part) and instead went down something like this: (While spray painting the football field) "Dudes, I gotta take a d@mp and there's no toilet around here!" (Lightbulb goes off) "I know, I'll do it here on the football field. That's hysterical!" "Awesome, Dude. I'm gonna do it too if I can!" etc. You get the idea.

Elena

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 3:34 p.m.

It is refreshing to see this incident handled in an appropriate way. Thanks Principal Michael White for implementing compassionate discipline that still held these students accountable for their "young and dumb" behavior. I also appreciate the collaborative effort of the administration and other the other high schools involved.

loves_fall

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 3:28 p.m.

I think the punishment was fine, but I am less concerned about prosecuting each of these students than in understanding what it is about the culture that we are all helping to foster that leads otherwise good kids to think that this kind of "prank" is OK.

say it plain

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:25 p.m.

Starts when we lead cheers for their group of "boys on the field" against the other ones, and then it continues as they define out-group after out-group after out-group with our great help through the school years, and then it keeps on keeping on...plus with the help of constant competition reality-tv 'dissing'-heavy cool culture, bullying continues... and this sort of prank is just really bullying, on a larger scale with maybe some final in-group/out-group identity solidifying thrown in as they move on in their lives and use this as a literally 'crap' final ritual of allegiance-proving and chest-beating. In that sense it's at one level as automatic as the behaviors of the primate in your avatar can be lol... Still, it would be interesting to see what would happen if we stopped the crass celebration of a total lack of empathy or community-concern that our culture has become, imho :-)

lumberg48108

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:44 p.m.

69 comments and counting its amazing how much investment readers of annarbor.com have in recent stories regarding moronic acts by teens readers will assess motives, criticize punishment, condone, excuse, blame parents, blame the make/model of vehicle I seem to be one of a few who think they teens have been acting as vandals for decades - sometimes they are caught and sometimes they are not ... in this case, I think the punishment fit the crime! Its logical pubishment w.o typical overreactions we read about every day. Will they learn a lesson? NO ONE knows that for sure and only time will tell. But in the grand scheme of things, this is just not that big a deal.

catfishrisin

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:32 p.m.

What ever happened to the non-destructive pranks...like putting a Volkswagen on top of the high school?

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:44 a.m.

NO comparison with the Big Boy!

tom d

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.

Deficating publicly is deffenetly funny. One one!

TKA2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.

OK Pioneer seniors, not bad....kind of a reflection of the times, "Punk'd" and "Jack***" and such... Still doesnt match the giant Paul Bunyan statue dragged to the steps of the school in 1982 (Hey Ann Arbor.com do you have the Ann Arbor News file photo on that? It was on the front page as I recall!) And can anyone slightly older than me verify that a VW Bug was on the roof at one point, or is that urban legend? Kudos chldren, you've made todays parents sound almost as outraged as when Elvis swayed his hips back in the day! *** PS: Couldnt include the name of a popular movie in this post, got screened:) Right-on Ann Arbor.com!

CincoDeMayo

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:54 p.m.

I was trying to remember if the VW Bug on the roof really happened or not also! We sure heard about it in those early 80's!!

loves_fall

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.

I think that's exactly what it is, the Jack*** effect . Kids see the "pranks" done in the shows and then they do similar ones in real life. I don't think it's that they're mimicking, per se, or that the show *caused* them to do it, but the show popularizes that kind of behavior and makes it cool and mainstream and socially acceptable. I know at least one parent who actually took a teen to go see the Jack*** movie, so maybe there's something to be said for parents/adults also being accepting of and amused by this kind of behavior. We're setting examples for the kids whether we like it or not.

Will Warner

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:52 p.m.

I believe the VW bug prank is true (although, memory has away of playing tricks on one). I think it happend the same year or year before the placing of a Mickey Mouse face behind the hands of the clock on the tower at PHS (called AAHS then). Around 1969.

BhavanaJagat

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.

The School District has lived with this problem for several years. In the past, the School District was hiring additional security personnel to discourage this kind of activity and to prevent damage to school property. However, those security arrangements were never adequate and small groups of determined students used to get away with spray painting and breaking of glass and run away. On occasions, adult parent or guardian would distarct the security person by engaging in a conversation while the kids do their prank and run away. I am now surprised to read about the amount of time these kids spent on the school property and the numbers involved. Apparently, the District has not taken any security precautions and the Police were not alerted and did not respond to arrest these students. The security person would have noted the license plate numbers of cars arriving on the property and would have provided some physical description of individuals involved. The School District may have used the Security cameras and made positive identification of 31 students who took part in this ugly episode. They must also pay towards the cost of installation of these Security cameras and pay for the costs of maintaining security at the School property.

DBlaine

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.

Nothing says school prank like taking a dump outside!

a2roots

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.

Kids...no one was hurt, minimal destruction, but the crap I don't get. Punishment and restitution fit the bill. Get over it, move on and be glad there weren't any injuries. For those of you calling for prison terms get a life and remember these are kids. Pretty mild stuff from what occurred at Huron in my day. We were just smarter because we never got caught.

tom swift jr.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:05 p.m.

"a little bit of damage was done." hey, right, no big deal... is this your offer to foot the bill?? if not, you've got nothing to say....

johnnya2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:38 p.m.

Actually, no damage is done, since the kids are actually paying for it. The school loses nothing.

fjord

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:04 p.m.

If you're going to pull off a senior prank, at least make it a good one. This is probably the dumbest one I've ever heard of. Perhaps this is a sign of what happens when cuts to school funding begin to narrow the curriculum: kids never develop their creativity.

CincoDeMayo

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:50 p.m.

Funny!

LindaE

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:02 p.m.

Excuse me, but why do students even need to do pranks?? Doesn't this kind of behavior rank right down there with bullying and hazing?? It is possible to be a graduating student and not do anything stupid. These are just bored teens who need a real life.

a2resa2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.

No one was hurt, unlike bullying or hazing

ummsw

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:53 p.m.

Note to future PHS,Huron ,Skyline and Community students....Keep you pranks intelligent and creative. it was done in the 1980's at PHS...no destruction ..It was fabulous!!!

salinemom2712

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:46 p.m.

What is with kids finding defecating in public so funny? I remember that as being a diagnosed fetish in my Sociology of Deviant Behavior class in college. First the McDonald's duck slayer pooping in the police car, and now these kids. It's gross and not funny.

smokeblwr

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.

It's kind of funny. I would never do it and don't condone it, but for some reason I'm giggling....

smokeblwr

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.

If Les Miles and LSU is in town playing Huron High School he better not eat the turf!!!

Carole

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:33 p.m.

Life is about choices -- these students made a bad choice, which required a consequence. Mr. White I commend you for your actions in having these students take responsibility for what they chose to do. I definitely would much rather have this stay out of the courts and handled with the suspensions, reimbursements, no senior party, and community services. I do agree with whoever stated "they should clean off all of the paint on the signs." I hope the students take this to heart and learn from the lessons.

cibachrome

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:29 p.m.

With that many students affected, statistically there should be a few parents willing to call Clarence Darrow up and demand he free their angels from servitude. Didn't Lindsey Lohan go to Pioneer? Maybe that's where she learned to be such a 'bad girl'....

MK

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:24 p.m.

Blow up doll on the flag pole in 2006 was funnier

leaguebus

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:23 p.m.

I think Will W and I are the only ones that have ever done anything stupid as "kids". Yes, these are kids. Did they leave any dead bodies anywhere? No. You could ruin their lives over something like this or make them pay restitution, apologize, and do their ten hours. Good job Mr White and the AAPD.

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:38 p.m.

Good job Mr. White. The AAPD has not been involved, but should have been. BTW, it's not about blood lust, its about holding people accountable for their actions. Kids destroy public property and deficate in public. Mom & dad pay the bill and the little angels get community service(Of what exactly does that consist? Perhaps 10 hours of cleaning porta johns would be appropriate).

Forever27

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.

no kidding. I'm surprised by the level of outrage and the lust for blood on this one.

Foolery

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.

Again with the poo??? Didn't they learn from Dillon Pearce and his failed attempt at a 'prank' last year? This is just a 'gateway prank' that will surely lead to squishing ducklings, and who knows what else....

Lola

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.

I, for one appreciate your sarcasm ;-)

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.

Deficating on public property!? People that play with their poop have some real issues to deal with. I'm sure that all of the people that think coddling these idiots is the right path, didn't have to clean up after them. Cutting down tennis nets and spray painting school property? That's vandalism and destruction of public property. If it were a single individual that did this, they'd be heading to court. These students should be banned from all school activities, including sports, music, prom, graduation and any other activity that requires good citizenship. These young citizens can always be recognized for "How NOT to represent your school or community." How about if we post their photos and names? Won't their parents be proud? That said, I believe that Principal White does a great job. I know that I wouldn't have the patience to deal with such assinine behavior.

DonBee

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.

Instead of letting them sit home for 5 days, they should have to serve the suspensions in school. No cell phones, no TV, no radios, no iPods. They should have an option to clean up the mess they made instead just sitting. Getting to hang out away from school for a week is heaven for most of these children. Making them sit and wait should cause them think twice before doing it again, and the word will get out that if you get caught in the future you will be punished, rather than rewarded.

Forever27

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:34 p.m.

I've always been in favor of in-school suspensions over at-home ones. Especially for the sake of the parents who may have to work a 9-5 job.

A2Scooter

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.

Criminal acts? Well, I'm not so sure we, as a society need to further bog down the system with this kind of thing, although the destructive elements certainly fit within the guidelines of a criminal act. I'm all for adding meaningful community service to their punishment and how about levying substantial fines (beyond the damages) on every one of the parents, too. That may actually, in turn, have a more lasting impression on the kids' lives, instead of this slap on the wrist. It used to be that the fear of one's parents finding out about "youthful indiscretions" was enough to stop them before they start. Now, so long as mommy or daddy can cut a check after the fact, problem solved. 10 hours of CS? How about 40 hours of REAL labor somewhere? There once was a time where a senior prank involved things like TP-ing a building or sticking a hundred For Sale signs on the school lawn or you take your pick. But defecating on the grounds and destroying the tennis nets?! First of all, what is wrong with these kids who felt so inclined to gather around with their pals to drop trow and take a dump together? Does anybody else thing this is beyond a little disconcerting? A prank? Wow. Amazingly, this isn't the first such story of students doing this very act on other school property in A2. The fact that they also felt completely okay with cutting those nets speaks volumes about their appreciation for not only other's property, but the underlying cost. Obviously, they're plenty old enough to know these things, but again, this needs to start at home. And please, don't tell us we should be happy they're not doing drive-by's. Everything is relative and poor decisions are one thing...willfully destructive behavior is another. Should they graduate? Yes. Let them off the hook like this? No way.

Silly Sally

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:29 a.m.

Are these kids too stupid to have used poster paint, and to let the admin know it, so no lasting damage would be done? Cutting nets, ruining signs, imitating a defecating dog? They have brought shame upon Pioneer High School. If I were a kid at another area high school, I'd be laughing at any kid from Pioneer. These kids need to be picking up trash and mopping floors at Pioneer for the next week, not a suspension.

Ellen

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:24 p.m.

LOL @ Laura. I was in the 80's too. I seem to recall a bad prank in which a toilet was blown up, but really, the best one we could come up with was a for sale sign and a giant paper mache nipple on the dome of the school. I'm SO not understanding the poop factor.

LauraM

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:24 p.m.

oh yes! Back in 1980 we thought we were so bad with all the for sale signs in the school front yard! We made giant cardboard letters to hang on the fences at the rival high school and, boy, did we think we were funny!!! Kids today would think our pranks were pretty lame.

EyeHeartA2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.

Pretty disgusting. What is it with these High School kids and their "scat freak" behavior? Last year the poop cup on the cop car and now dropping a duece on the athletic fields. Pretty gross when you consider that kids have to block, tackle, slide tackle etc. on this artificial turf.

bullsballs

Sun, May 15, 2011 : 6:13 a.m.

like the birds and rodents and bugs don't scat on the turf? just never read how much scat is federally allowed in your food supply... best pranks are done by one or two...

CincoDeMayo

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.

I agree - I get pranks, but that one I will never understand. Not that it's really new - I had a friend who thought that was funny 30 years ago at Argo Pond there in the middle of the plaza. Don't get it....

Heardoc

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:38 p.m.

I just wonder who the children were -- were they the sons and daughters (at lest a few of them) of prominent people and are they getting special handling due to their privileged status? While I do not want to ruin a teenagers life over this -- there should be some public record of this and we should learn if this is commonly done for these circumstances. What if a lone teenager defecated on the field -- would this be ok and would that person be treated as this group was treated? My understanding is that if you urinate outside this is a sexual offense-- why not defecating? Hmmmm i just wonder who these teenagers are and who their parents are .....

Foote

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:21 p.m.

Mr. White is not the kind of person to cave in to political pressures. You need to see this man in action between classes. He literally yells at students telling them to clear the halls and move along. Once, during registration there was some confusion and he personally yelled at me (a parent), telling me to get in a line. When I responded that I was in line he got angry and walked into the school, tearing off hand lettered signs welcoming new students to Pioneer. Though some might find fault with this type of action, I believe that it proves the point that he is above politics. His morning routine says it all, he gets up at 4am, runs 8 miles and is in the Pioneer building by 6:30am. He works his a** off all day. Pioneer remains one of the top high schools in the USA. The Pioneer Symphony Orchestra was once again given a top honor grammy as THE BEST HS orchestra in the USA. I think you all should let the man do his job. He is good at it.

Alfred Williamson

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:10 p.m.

Do you really believe that we should charge teenagers who urinate outside with a sexual offense?

Forever27

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:28 p.m.

Good greif people, lighten up. A couple of high schoolers pulled a prank in which nobody was hurt and only a little bit of damage was done. They're paying back the money for the damage and will be suspended. If this actually went to the courts like so many commenters here want, we'd be reading about how this is just a waste of taxpayer money and time.

Forever27

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:32 p.m.

is that all really a reason to involve the justice system though? This is something that can be solved through discipline like we're seeing. I'm not saying that this is "harmless", it just doesn't require the level of vitriol I've seen on this board.

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:04 p.m.

How about we have a few HS students deficate on your lawn and see if you think its just a harmless prank. Did you have to clean up after these bright individuals?

smokeblwr

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:28 p.m.

I'm sure these children of the YouTubes Generation have already posted videos of themselves dropping a deuce on the football field. I'm going to look for it right now.

CincoDeMayo

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:41 p.m.

Gross

Henry Ruger

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.

Oh, dear children, endure your suspensions and pay your fines, but cherish these memories!

Foote

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.

To all the people that think these kids are getting off with a "slap on the wrist", the 10 hours of community service will be no walk in the park. Michael White is going to make these kids remember their mistakes for the rest of their lives, and they will think twice about engaging in such behavior again. Let me remind you that Mr. White is a master disciplinarian, with skills practiced and honed in the US Army as a drill sergeant. These skills are fresh as he recently returned from a deployment at Ft. Benning. Those kids are going to wish they were in jail (at least while they are [providing community service for 10 hours). See this link for more info about Michael White and his recent tour of duty... <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-pioneer-high-principal-michael-white-called-to-active-duty-in-army-reserves/">http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-pioneer-high-principal-michael-white-called-to-active-duty-in-army-reserves/</a>

Nancy

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 2:42 a.m.

Mr. White is able to dole out discipline but not respect, even to adults. The culture at Pioneer is not positive. I come from a family with many members in the armed forces. I do not expect my children in the public schools to be treated as such. They did not sign up. (at least not at 15)

Mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:21 p.m.

Community service will be the best punishment. Most will pay the small sum of $90.00 for restitution to get it off ther back. We need more principals like Michael White. I think being a drill sergeant should be a prerequisite to being a principal.

Barb

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:41 p.m.

Yeah, Mr. White sure knows how to dole out discipline. I've seen it first hand. It remains to be seen, though, if it makes that much of a difference overall with these kids (or the others he's come down hard on). And his follow up is sorely lacking.

jmac

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:15 p.m.

These 'generally really good kids" spraypainted giant "P"'s on the electronic sign that faces Huron Parkway at Huron High as well as every single stop sign and other sign on the property. The defaced electronic sign was cleaned up within a couple of weeks (I'm sure at great expense) but the purple P's on all the other signs remain. I think these kids should do their community service by scrubbing off all the spray paint they deposited at Huron and Skyline. And reimburse the district for the ruined tennis nets, removal of defecation, etc. How else are they going to learn that these actions are not harmless pranks? And I'm not picking on Pioneer. Huron seems to have some brainless students who do this kind of stuff, as well. There will always be a few, but they need to be dealt with appropriately. And I would NOT let them walk in graduation...that would probably be the most appropriate (and worst, in the minds of the offenders) punishment of all.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:25 p.m.

Sally: Which is what "prank day" had become at Hackett. Good Night and Good Luck

Sallyxyz

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.

None of this was a prank. It was vandalism.

Edward R Murrow's Ghost

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:08 p.m.

"And I would NOT let them walk in graduation" EXACTLY!! The senior pranks on an unofficial "prank day" at Kalamazoo Hackett HS had gotten so out of hand that, several years ago, the HS administration decreed that there would be no graduation ceremony if there were a prank day that year. There were dozens of pranks. Graduation was cancelled. Diplomas were put in the mail. Hasn't happened since. Good Night and Good Luck

glimmertwin

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:11 p.m.

Fantastic senior prank! The cutting of the nets is a not right, but the rest is hilarious!

Cloudmaster

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 4:50 a.m.

Mike - I'd be interested to find out how you were able to use public funds to buy your house and car. 'Cause I had to buy my own, and they're definitely not public property. But I'll be by later to sleep in your public property house. Dibs on the top bunk! And SemperFi - I probably would think it was funny if someone took a crap in my yard. What else do you do but laugh at that? Besides, jerks from the neighborhood let their dogs do it all the time, and I'd probably get in trouble if I beat their dog. An 18 year old pooping in my lawn, though, is fair game for an old-school beat down.

Mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.

Defacing public property is hilarious? What would really be funny is if you gave them your address and let them come over and have some fun at your house or on your car while you enjoyed a good laugh.

Lola

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:36 p.m.

I agree with YOU Glimmertwin. Some people just have NO sense of humor.

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.

Not funny, at all.

glimmertwin

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:29 p.m.

No, I think they should do all the cleanup. But that doesn't take away that it is hilarious!

WalkingJoe

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:23 p.m.

Good point SemperFi.

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:57 p.m.

If you think that this is hilarious, perhaps you wouldn't mind going over to Huron & Skyline and cleaning up their poop. That would be funny, right?

dotdash

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:09 p.m.

Wow. There is a lot of anger and self-righteousness in these posts. Kids do stupid, careless, destructive things in high school. My friends and I once roller-skated around my hometown, spray painting our graduating year on park buildings. It was juvenile and self-centered but at the time, I was pretty sure it was hilarious. I have never done anything like it since, but remembering that keeps me from being so sure that any kid who would do something stupid is headed for a life of crime that needs to be nipped in the bud. In the interim, I went to college, got married, had kids, worked, paid taxes -- all the good upstanding citizen stuff. So lighten up, y'all. Kids are not finished products at 18 -- their brains are still developing, especially in the areas of impulse control and right/wrong. They can use grownups who show them, in a decent and understanding way, how to behave like adults.

Mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.

We shouldn't give these kids a police record over this or any jail time. There is a lot of graffiti all over town that could use some cleaning up. Have them do that while wearing clown suits, now that would be funny. I agree that they're just stupid kids doing stupid stuff and they unfortunately (for them) they got caught.

CincoDeMayo

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:38 p.m.

Well said dotdash. Semperfi - there were consequences.

Lola

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:35 p.m.

I couldn't have said it better (or maybe even as well) myself. Kudos to you Dotdash for being one of the few here with some common sense.

dotdash

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.

Seriously, SemperFi, you *never did anything* you are ashamed of now? Seriously?

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:31 p.m.

Nothing self-righteous about criticizing abhorent behavior, like deficating in a public place. Psychobabble doesn't excuse them from being held accountable for their actions.

YHS66

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:05 p.m.

Jeez, lighten up people! I'll just bet some of the ones who are calling for the harshest punishment were probably pranksters themselves when they were seniors. These seniors are only guilty of a lack of imagination. There are ways to pull off pranks without destroying or vandalizing property.

djm12652

Thu, May 19, 2011 : 8:19 p.m.

exactly, destroying property and public defecation are not pranks...just acts of uncivilized barbarians...albeit ones that feel entitled...

WalkingJoe

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 12:05 p.m.

"Generally good kids"? Good kids do not defecate on the athletic fields of a rival school and is not the behavior of "good kids". I think the punishment is too lenient. I agree with those that say these kids have learned you can do what you want and just pay your way out. Who had to clean up the mess, them? I bet not.

djm12652

Thu, May 19, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.

so these same parents would have no problem with say a Saline homeless person coming downtown A12 and taking a dump on Main St without being horrified at the uncouth act of an animal?

a2resa2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:15 p.m.

@sallyxyz not the case at all

Sallyxyz

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:50 p.m.

Exactly. Good kids do not crap on athletic fields and vandalize property. Far too lenient. They should have been arrested like anyone else who might have done this. I suspect that some "influential" parents pressured the principal to not have them arrested.

msclean

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.

These kids parents probably have money. Administrators are afraid to do anything to these kids who have wealthy parents. If they would have been poor kids they would be facing more then the slap on the wrist White gave them. These kids know this too.

msclean

Sat, May 14, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.

It is true. I work for aaps and see it all the time first hand. Parents think the kids can do whatever they want and not have to worry about any kind of punishment. I have been in this district over 20 years and see what these kids do. White was easy on these nasty kids. they should of had to go clean their own crap up.

Jojo B

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:26 p.m.

Actually, if they were each fined $85,000, those funds could help balance the education shortfall. Sounds fine to me. :)

a2resa2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:16 p.m.

That isnt true, it has nothing to do with the parents' wealth

Will Warner

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:46 a.m.

If, forty years ago, we reacted to teenage stupidity the way we often do now, I would still be in jail. But back then adults would come together around a kid who was doing stupid things, not only to guide him away from that behavior, but also to protect him from the hollowing masses who must, just must, have their pound of flesh. I think the principal handled it about right.

sh1

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:43 a.m.

I'm troubled by the "generally, these are really good kids" statement. "Really good kids" need to learn there are serious consequences as well.

sh1

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:12 p.m.

Don't see where I wrote anything like that. I think not being able to walk at graduation fits the crime.

Mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:31 p.m.

Why does there have to be really serious consequences? Are you saying we should give them a criminal record to start out their young lives?

Wolf's Bane

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:43 a.m.

Oh my, all this for a senior prank, really? Nothing better to do with your time and money? A word to the students: When committing a Senior Prank or participating in Senior Skip day the goal is NOT, repeat NOT to get caught!!! If you're caught, you do have to pay the piper or scale it down. :)

walker101

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:20 a.m.

Get over it, your lucky they don't have any drive bys, at least not as of yet.

kdadnick

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:51 a.m.

Truly amazing that high school students.... and 31 of them at that....would somehow think defecating publicly is funny and constitutes a prank. Can you imagine how mortified their parents must be and hopefully, before long they will be too! That being said, I am in support of this having been resolved by the school with the other schools, rather than criminally. However, I think the students 10 hours of community service is misplaced. Each student should have been required to serve 5-10 hours of community service at each of the rival schools they vandalized.

Mick52

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.

If I were an official at the vandalized schools, I would not want them on the property, doing public service or not.

SemperFi

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 1:35 p.m.

As I understand it, some of the parents showed up at Pioneer and tried to tell Principal White that he was being too harsh on these little angels.

Jimmy McNulty

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:26 a.m.

I initially thought that they DID have to do community service @ Huron High until I re-read the article. That would be a proper sentence!

Will

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 11:12 a.m.

A great idea!

CommonThought

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:43 a.m.

Since when does a scavenger hunt "included defecating on... athletic fields," and other types of vandalism? I'm sure that principal White is letting these students off relatively easy and hoping the parents jump in with some appropriate punishment.

tom swift jr.

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:22 a.m.

This, folks, is the problem with the system. Here's what we've taught these students. It's ok to vandalize public property and walk away with a slap on the hand, no real consequence, and no involvement with the judicial system. Exactly the lesson I want young people to learn.

Mike

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 7:38 p.m.

When I was in high school I got pulled over a couple of times after drinking and was escorted home. I hardly drink at all now that I'm older but that was 30 years ago. Today you get a criminal record, jail time, and a life long "lookback" period on your record, if you are lucky enough to have had Granholm as your governor. So your third strike as a fifty year old man could land you in jail on a felony charge. So maybe all the punish and destroy crowd is right we should charge them in case they screw up again so maybe we can get them as habitual offenders and put a felony charge on them when they're a little older.

DennisP

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4:31 p.m.

I have quite a few decades under my belt. In my day, schools knew which students were delinquent and which were good and misguided. It isn't hard. Those who are consistently in trouble were punished accordingly and with escalated enforcement. But I don't recall my school or any of the neighboring ones insisting that a first offense by otherwise good students be treated criminally. That's because the school often knew the parents and respected them and had confidence in the parents taking steps to prevent recurrence. That avoiding having to use the legal system to "teach lessons". The legal system is a poor teacher. You obviously have some association with it because you glibly refer to the Holmes Youthful Trainee Act as HYTA with little reference to what it is or what it does. But HYTA and pre-trial diversion and all those things are really deviations from the normal routine in the courtroom. In addition, sending these kids into the system creates anxieties, expenses for attorneys, and adds to the delay to the existing case load and can ruin futures. What so some can say a "lesson" has been learned not to "diss" a rival school with stupid and disgusting acts--the kinds of acts by the way Hollywood "teen" movies seem to glorify. Heck, the NEA even pays artists to put religious artifacts into jars of urine and display it in a museum. I don't condone their gross stupidity. But, I don't see why we can't defer to the principal's knowledge of their character and allow him to fashion a punishment that is more suitable and will provide the lessons you seek without burdening the legal system.

HaeJee

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 4 p.m.

Lets be logical here. If they were charged, the school and parents would be paying A LOT more to the court system for a similar punishment or less. Based on what the prinicpal said, these were kids who do not have a cimininal history. Therefore, would most likely just get a slap on the wrists by a judge anyway.

johnnya2

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:34 p.m.

Wow, sound like an old man much. They caused some damage and got caught. They are paying for it. I suppose every criminal act should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. Every time a speeder gets caught the police should make the speed the EXACT true speed and not cut 5-10 mph off. If a cop is running radar and sees somebody going 56 in a 55, they should be ticketed IMMEDIATELY. Damn criminals. I also want this applied to every single adult who is a criminal at Pioneer high school every football Saturday. They choose to drink alcoholic beverages ILLEGALLY on Pioneer property. I want these people punished severely. Pooping on an athletic field, spray painting your school colors have been done for YEARS. In fact, the MSU/ UM rivalry has led to painting of Sparty and the Rock on Hill many times. Oh, and if you have ever purchased something from out of state or online, make sure you paid your use tax. It is CRIMINAL not to.

Mick52

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 2:18 p.m.

Don't know how many decades you are going back Dennis but 40 years ago when students vandalized my school, they were prosecuted. They are lucky they were not prosecuted but perhaps they should have been. They could get sentenced under HYTA and if they complete their sentence, the offense will be taken from their records. The value of that, applying HYTA, is that will pretty much assure they will not repeat criminal acts because you get HYTA once. In regard to court costs, they can be assessed court costs too..

Richard Carter

Fri, May 13, 2011 : noon

Do you realize how much 31 court hearings (and perhaps 31 jailings) cost? At least they're paying restitution, and getting some sort of punishment. Non-violent crimes, and they have to pay to restore things to as-they-were. Let's go after people who directly harm others, or cause losses that they can't compensate. But if any of them do it again, yeah, let's get legal on them.

DennisP

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:41 a.m.

You're wrong. There is a consequence but it was handled in the way these kinds of things were handled for decades prior to our need to criminalize every act. Yes, there actions were juvenile and they will pay restitution for clean up. They are being barred from a graduation activity. But, this principal used his common sense and weighed the balance of their usual character in the school against a single episode of foolishness. Some schools would have immediately pressed charges and put these kids into an already overburdened legal system while marking them with criminal records which will then require they again return to the system in 5 years to seek expungement. I'm sure this principal will issue proper warnings to graduating students next year and we won't see a recurrence. He acted properly using reason and sense.

Indicat

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 10:12 a.m.

Let this be a lesson to all high school seniors. These kids should be thanking Mr. White that no criminal charges were filed. That could really ruin college plans. Kudos to Mr. White for the way he handled this situation.

Roadman

Fri, May 13, 2011 : 5:53 p.m.

I would hope that the City Attorney obtains the names of the culprits and prosecutes. This conduct is disgraceful.

31 students suspended from Pioneer High School after senior prank

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