Q&A with Edward Sidlow: EMU professor talks about the politics of Bin Laden's death
Edward Sidlow
The author of several books, Dr. Sidlow is currently working on “Presidential Success and Failure in Domestic Politics and Policy.” He is a past recipient of the EMU Alumni Association’s Award for Teaching Excellence and the EMU Honors College Professor of the Year.
Lucy Ann: Will the death of Osama Bin Laden translate into a political victory and ultimate re-election for President Barack Obama?
Sidlow: We have very short memories, so I don’t know that this is going to stay front page for that long. There will be good campaign material in it. There will be good pictures to be saved to use in 2012, but a word of caution. The first President Bush … skyrocketed in the public opinion polls and approval ratings in late 1991, early 1992, because of his rather quick and decisive victory in the first Gulf War. In fact, his approval ratings soared that January to 90 percent. The following November, of course, he lost to Bill Clinton.
Dean: They were calling President Bush unbeatable at that point, and there were a lot of Democrats who just chose not to even run. Finally Bill Clinton threw his hat in the ring and became president.
Sidlow: Yes, and that it is interesting, I think as interesting as anything else to see just what this event might do to the Republican field. It was ironic how we went from the silliness of Trump politics on Saturday night to the gravity of Bin Laden politics on Sunday night. You know, our attention gets shifted dramatically and quickly, so to project out to 2012 is pretty risky business.
Lucy Ann: Do you think, Professor Sidlow, that there was some kind of political orchestration as to when this came down? Was there any particular reason you can see for that? They had been tracking this since last August when they first found this compound.
Sidlow: You know, I think when it gets to “Why now?” instead of a month ago, or six weeks from now, I think we get into areas that frankly we as a public, no matter how informed we try to be, can’t be sure. I think there are certainly protocols whereby those conducting the operation go to the president and say “OK, this is a good 72-hour window; we need your go-ahead to go ahead and do it.” It can’t be micromanaged to the minute from half a world away.
Lucy Ann: However, could he have decided to release his long-form birth certificate when he did because he knew this operation was coming down?
Sidlow: Oh goodness, maybe I’m a hopeful enough person that I can’t imagine the White House linking the two. I think the birth certificate release was just exasperation and weariness on the part of the White House that they finally said, “Let’s put it out there. The people we’re not going to convince, we’re never going to convince. Let’s let them go. Let’s bring along those who are waiting for this and be done with it.” And it seems to me that’s the only sensible, sort of strategic way, to view that. It’s a sort of dichotomous decision; either we’re going to do it or we’re not. And once we decide to do it, let’s just do it. I don’t think they could have predicted the moment that special operation overseas was going to come down and link it that strategically to the birth certificate release.
Lucy Ann: I don’t understand why his administration didn’t release that from the get-go.
Sidlow: Well, I can understand a couple of reasons why they didn’t and, you know, reasonable people can disagree on this. When you start reacting to calls for the release of personal documents, if you’re in the White House, your lawyers will tell you, and Obama had good lawyers around him, that you’re headed down a slippery slope. And it’s not just the birth certificate. It’s the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and before long your presidency is sort of consumed by these sorts of personal matters that take so much time away from the business of being president. One needs only to look at the first few years of the Bill Clinton term to recognize that. This guy was being picked at from the get-go. We want to know this, we want to know that, we want to know about the first lady’s land dealings and that stuff never stops, particularly with the news cycle being as swift and as relentless as it is these days.
Lucy Ann: Do you think the president should authorize the release of the photos, videos, anything to show the burial at sea of Osama bin Laden for proof that he is indeed dead? And how does that play with politics in America?
Sidlow: I can see arguments from both sides. There are still people who believe we didn’t land on the moon. You have to start from the premise that there are going to be some people that are either so cynical or distrustful of this administration that you could smear them with the blood of this fellow and they would say it was somebody else’s blood. There is always going to be a cry from some folks for more, not unlike the birth certificate. He released this form. There are still some people who are saying it took so long because they were so busy doctoring the thing up and, you know. So you start at the point that some people you’re not going to satisfy period. Then you might move to the next group of people who are demanding this proof. How do you (release the photos) respectfully and tastefully enough to not appear like the people that we so frequently criticize? We Americans are so repulsed by the notion of other people dancing in the streets of their cities, their towns, their countries upon the death of some American soldier or hostage and we find that kind of celebration repulsive. The administration has to be awfully careful to do this thing respectfully and tastefully and not appear to be gloating, and that’s a real tough line to walk when so many people are gloating and jubilant and dancing in the streets. The fact that Bin Laden is gone is great by me. I’m like the vast majority of Americans who thought this person, not a good person, certainly not a force for good, was quite frankly a rather evil guy. Having said that, it’s a little disconcerting to rejoice when someone has been killed.
Lucy Ann: I’m not one of those who would be out in the street doing that either. However, 3,000, nearly 3,000 people were killed unprovoked and this was the retribution for that.
Sidlow: No, I quite agree with you, Lucy Ann. I’m not an apologist. I don’t make excuses. I’m just saying there is something that feels funny to me about rejoicing. Do you say, “Thank Heaven this guy is gone. It was a successful operation. God bless the people who took him out. Let’s get on with it”? You sure do. You bet. But remember that the president is walking a line that has to go through such a broad scope of reaction of the part of the Americans and his world constituency that something as sensitive as releasing those photos really requires a whole lot of thought and planning, it seems to me.
Dean: Professor, what I think they need to do is just to get a cross section of people in government from both sides of the aisle to come forward and say “Yes we’ve seen the pictures and this is Osama Bin Ladan.”
Lucy Ann: I don’t think that would satisfy people who don’t believe it.
Dean: At least it would take away the people who are thinking it’s being done for a political reason. And a second comment on the celebrating, I think it’s more of a victory. I don’t think people equate it to a death but a victory. I saw video of people at Ground Zero who were crying, and I’m sure those were people who had lost somebody. Maybe this is more of a closure for them because you don’t see people celebrating, for example, if they’ve lost a loved one to a murderer. It’s a closure for them. So I think you’re seeing two different reactions.
Sidlow: I think you’re quite right. In a war like this where there’s not necessarily major battle victories and serves as a culture for Hollywood endings, I think you’re quite right that the closure of this, the victory of this, is undeniable. And I’m as satisfied that this operation was successful as anyone. Believe me, I am. The Kennedy administration and Castro were mortal enemies. To say there was no love lost was an overstatement. There was no love ever. When Kennedy was killed and someone said somewhat glibly to Castro, “Mister Premier, what joy or satisfaction do you take from this now that your arch enemy has been removed?” Castro’s immediate reaction was, “Only a mad man rejoices in death.” What I’m trying to suggest here is that there is a part of this that feels uncomfortable for me. At the same time when I first the saw the news trailer on Sunday night I said, “Wow. Good. That’s good news.”
Lucy Ann Lance is co-owner of Lance & Erskine Communications, which produces “The Lucy Ann Lance Business Insider” (M-F, 8 a.m.-11 a.m.) and “The Lucy Ann Lance Show” (Saturdays, 9 a.m.-12 p.m.) on 1290 WLBY. The programs are live streamed at www.1290WLBY.com, and podcast on www.lucyannlance.com. The above interview is a condensed version of a longer conversation that is edited for print. The complete audio interview is posted on her website.
Comments
15crown00
Mon, Jun 20, 2011 : 4 p.m.
remember politicians no matter how noble their pronouncements live for the photo op and are always thinking about getting reelected.
sbbuilder
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.
Bedrog Do you habitually accept everything the goverment says is true? I believe that was the underlying point unsureofanything was trying to make. Whether the extremist Sheikhs want to use this confusion to whip up anti-US fervor is beside the point. Did you accept the government's contention that there were WMD's in Iraq? Did you believe the government that the Aug. 2nd and Aug 4th engagements in the Gulf of Tonkin were factual? How about the blowing up of the Maine in Havana harbour? All three are examples of the government's terpitude that directly led to our country going to war. In the case of the WMD's, the government has only recently acknowledged their absence; in the case of the Tonkin incident, it took until 2005 for the truth to be brought out; I'm not sure about the Maine, but you get the point. Will Bin Laden cease to be a menace to the world? It looks so, and for that we can all be grateful. Can we reasonably influence the behaviour of those who hold Bin Laden in great esteem? Hardly. Unfortunately, I find myself throwing my hat into the ring along with those who doubt the governments veracity with regard to the undoing of Bin Laden. Too many false statements, retractions, changing of policy, etc. in too short a time for this to be swallowed wholesale.
bedrog
Wed, May 11, 2011 : 6:38 p.m.
While we're on Spanish American War arcania, famous artist of the american west, frederic remington, was also an illustrator for the W.R.Hearst chain and a famous 'jingo'. When an elderly american female tourist was decorously searched, by female spanish customs officials in Havana, Remington ( urged by Hearst to "give me a war') illustrated this event as a nude , nubile blond being groped and ogled by leering swarthy spanish factoti.... .soon thereafter Remington was sent to Cuba by Hearst to illustrate scenes from the war, including an iconic painting ( used for campaign purposes) of teddy Roosevelt and the roughriders ( who were mostly infantry at that event ) at San juan hill. Remington , who had been earlier mildly shot in the butt, actually never witnessed the scene. That said, Osama bin Laden is dead and Obama deserves alot of credit for cojones of steel given what could have gone wrong.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, May 11, 2011 : 1:10 p.m.
As for the current issue: one needs to separate out confusion (what Clausewitz called the" fog of war") from efforts to misrepresent. What happens in battle is seldom clear many years later; it is very unclear only a few hours later and many thousands of miles away. The changes in the reports are unfortunate because they feed conspiracy theories, but it is a fairly typical event as the fog clears away from military actions and as efforts are made to understand exactly what happened. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, May 11, 2011 : 1:03 p.m.
I'd like to join this conversation, if I may (realize it may have passed me by). Sb asks: "Did you accept the government's contention that there were WMD's in Iraq? Did you believe the government that the Aug. 2nd and Aug 4th engagements in the Gulf of Tonkin were factual? How about the blowing up of the Maine in Havana harbour?" 1) No, I did not believe Iraq had WMD. Never did. Indeed, I was quite certain that the Bush admin KNEW it did not. The fact that our clearly stated objective in invading Iraq was regime change proved to me beyond a reasonable doubt that we KNEW Iraq did not have WMD. After all, tghe quickest way to get any nation to use WMD is to attack it while announcing that your goal is regime change. 2) It seems pretty clear that the Aug 2 incident in the Tonkin Gulf actually happened the way it was reported and that the Aug. 4 incident never happened. What is open to question is whether or not the Aug 4 incident NOT happening would have been enough to stop LBJ from pursuing the GofT Resolution or, if he had pursued it based solely on the Aug. 2 incident, whether or not Congress would have pursued it. Given that the vote was 416-0 in the H of R, and only 2 Senators voted against the measure, it seems likely that the GofT Resolution would have passed Congress without the report of the Aug 4 incident. If you want sources, I can provide them, though (and I hesitate to write this) the Wikipedia write-up is pretty good. 3) It seems fairly clear that the Maine exploded due to coal dust, not due to any malfeasance on the part of the Spanish or of the McKinley administration. And it was not the McKinley admin that created the public uproar in support of war. It was the yellow press--the competition between Hearst and Pulitzer--that ramped up the public's anger. It seems clear that McKinley felt trapped by that anger. His vice president reportedly told him that if he did not go to war he would not win re-election in 1900. (Cont).
bedrog
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 8:08 p.m.
sbbuilder: when i say 'conspiracy theorists", however uncomfortable it may make you ( although i think we may agree on far more than we disagree) ,i mean the lala landers who ( usually but not always simultaneously) believe: -That 9/11 was an inside job - that ,a priori , the "mainstream media" ( whose practitioners actually went to journalism school and who are accountable to fact checkers and editors) are less reliable than editor-free blog sites, especially if they come from extremist fringes ...be they Islamist or glenn beckoid ones. ---and i won't even get into the "new world order" , "zionist occupied government ", "climate change isnt real" permutations of this crew. Again, allowing for the inevitable "fog of war' factor in pakistan in the dark and under stress there's nothing in this case that seems unforgiveably hokey. And as i said elswhere i fully expect that by now Bin Laden is undergoing the digestive process in the guts of an arabian sea tiger shark ( like the one whose jaws hang in my study from my time on that coast); If so, a good moove on Obamas part since any above-ground burial , evena secretone, would lead to a real or fictional "martyrs shrine" that would generate recruits to jihad. but if he's alive and being debriefed elsewhere, ( as i doubt is the case) i think history could justify that too, given the tactical nightmares of a more public venue. for his questioning and trial.
sbbuilder
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 7:34 p.m.
bedrog I find the phrase 'conspiracy theorist' distasteful, indeed repugnant. However, if you were to challenge the gov back in '64, you would most likely have been labelled a conspiratist. I only used those examples because the gov has been proven to have deliberately misled the public. Twenty seven years in the Foreign Service will also give you a very jaundiced eye towards gov probity. I will tell you this: What I find most troubling with the raid, is the supposed gap in intel. You have a veritable posse of SEALs with helmet cams, and we are led to believe that for 25 minutes or so no intel is to be had. Sorry, but I will not bend my suspension of disbelief far enough to accomodate that obvious lie. Do you have a better explanation? Which may lead us into a circular argument as to whether Bin Laden is at the bottom of the sea (yeah, we all rejoice), or he is being held somewhere dark and lonely (hearken all ye conspiracists).
bedrog
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
sbbuilder...no .I dont habitually accept anything on faith alone . But i am quite well informed on the areas at issue in the bin laden and related cases ( and at one time, pre al qaeda, indeed provided advice on such regions to the govt from time to time ): and the current case and strategies , as presented by the Obama administration all along, have been perfectly plausible in a wild and crazy region ...indeed far far more so than the nether world notions of the internet that habitual conspiracy theorists inhabit.
demistify
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
Maureen Dowd, New York Times, May 8: "I don't want closure. There is no closure after tragedy. I want memory, and justice, and revenge. When you are dealing with a mass murderer who bragged about incinerating thousands of Americans and planned to kill countless more, that seems like the most civilized and morally sound response.... In another inane debate last week, many voices suggested that decapitating the head of a deadly terrorist network was some sort of injustice.... Those who celebrated on Sept. 11 were applauding the slaughter of American innocents. When college kids spontaneously streamed out Sunday night to the White House, ground zero and elsewhere, they were the opposite of bloodthirsty ;they were happy that one of the most certifiably evil figures of our time was no more."
Alan Goldsmith
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 10:32 a.m.
"Sounds like LA had her own agenda in the interview. Conspiracy theories about the timing of bin Laden's capture, not releasing the long form birth certificate...nice job really exploring the political implications of the capture. Are we sure this wasn't a high school newsletter interview?" Welcome to the Lucy Ann Lance show. Lol.
Alan Goldsmith
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 10:31 a.m.
Republican and City of Ann Arbor Employee Lucy Ann Lance continues her slanted question journalism: "Lucy Ann: Do you think, Professor Sidlow, that there was some kind of political orchestration as to when this came down? Was there any particular reason you can see for that? They had been tracking this since last August when they first found this compound." "Lucy Ann: However, could he have decided to release his long-form birth certificate when he did because he knew this operation was coming down?" "Lucy Ann: I don't understand why his administration didn't release that from the get-go." Does AnnArbor.com have any published journalism ethics policy for employees that covers conflicts of interest? As in employees who are paid by the CIty of Ann Arbor interviewing City elected officials? Not that is would cover this case but it's a little tiring seeing journalism this slanted from a member of the Republican Party who seems to have an obvious bias about the President and a vested interest in playing softball with questions to people, like the Mayor, who cut her paychecks for her city employment.
demistify
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 9:57 p.m.
"There are still people who believe we didn't land on the moon. You have to start from the premise that there are going to be some people that are either so cynical or distrustful of this administration that you could smear them with the blood of this fellow and they would say it was somebody else's blood." In accordance with Prof. Sidlow's prediction, we can find among the comments the standard conspiracy theories and weird interpretations. This includes one that rejects all US accounts but unquestioningly accepts a Pakistani report, an odd mindset to say the least. The only thing missing is denial that it was bin Laden's people that brought down the World Trade Center towers, though Roadman's legalistic pleading comes close. Bin Laden was entitled to precisely as much due process as he gave the 3000 victims of 9/11 (and many others murdered by al Qaeda). While Roadman's pseudo-erudition sounds impressive, a number of the specifics are false.
bedrog
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 10:27 a.m.
I leave it to demistify to elucidate what he is referring to...but your whole approach has always been confused ( and confusingly inconsistent). But there is absolutely no doubt that were you posting on Eichmann at the time you'd have been dissing the israelis for their "extrajudicial kinnapping", and in the Romanian case decrying the rapidity and kangaroo-courty nature ( 2-hrs from court to execution) of the ceausescus. That is when you weren't praising the same things on another thread.
Roadman
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 11:29 p.m.
"....a number of the specifis are false." Which specifics are those? It is the Obama administration which has given repeated well-publicized contradictions of the circumstances surrounding Bin Laden's death.
Roadman
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 9:19 p.m.
For those to suggest that the success of the SEALS operation resulted from the product of CIA torture techniques and that this justifies employment by such tactics by the United States should be reminded that this would be used by others to warrant the torture of American servicemen and civilians in the custody of foreign powers. It would also represent a decline in the moral standing of America as a world leader who has previously denounced such conduct. John McCain, who knows torture firsthand, has been adamantly opposed to U.S. employment of such techniques.
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.
umm...When american servicemen...and even journalists like daniel pearl...have fallen into the hands of al qaeda types they wind up beheaded or otherwise dismembered or executed as noted in an earlier post ,and in the well- known cases of fallujah and mogadishu ..So our actions here are gonna set no precedent that's not already there. you clearly choose to disremember such instances in the vastness of your 'truthy" ( ala steven colbert) skewed historical parallelling. Im a total agnostic on extreme questioning methods. I defer to experts in the field who are divided on the matter of effective techniques ...but al qaeda has placed itself beyond the pale of geneva- accord type niceties , as our pragmatic and moral ( when all things are equal, as they most certainly are not in the war with Islamist terror) president has clearly and properly recognized. To play on his name , "Obama mubarak" ( i.e.. much power to ya, Obama).
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 8:57 p.m.
I've been to Abbotabad in less troubled times and the scrutiny i received from the plethora of cops and soldiers there utterly belies the claims of the Pakistanis that they were oblivious to the biggest and newist house on the block and its mysterious inhabitants. For " roadman "to be second -guessing , hyper -parsing and bad- historical -analogy drawing around the courageous actions of all involved in this operation ---from the president to the Seals is.....well ,actually pretty much what ive come to expect from this person ( if there is only one...although someone with the same screenname actually praised the operation on another thread) .
catfishrisin
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 7:43 p.m.
Sounds like LA had her own agenda in the interview. Conspiracy theories about the timing of bin Laden's capture, not releasing the long form birth certificate...nice job really exploring the political implications of the capture. Are we sure this wasn't a high school newsletter interview?
Roadman
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 6:10 p.m.
Judge Andrew Napolitano and Michael Moore have now joined the Pakistani government and the chorus of those who have labelled the conduct of the U.S. in killing Bin Laden an extrajudicial assassination which violated international law. Bin Laden was a criminal defendant in a U.S. District Court under federal grand jury indictment at the time of his death. The disposal of his body without the consent of his next of kin was unprecedented. Others in Bin Laden's compound were arrested and taken into custody for interrogation. In 2004, the United Nations Security Council voted nearly unanimously (except the U.S.) to condemn the IDf's targeted killing of Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin in an air raid. Adolf Eichmann, Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosovich, Nicolae Ceausescu, the Nuremberg Tribunal defendants were all accorded due process before being sentenced to prison, acquitted, or executed. An arrest of Bin laden may have yielded valuable intelligence information as it did with Saddam Hussein. The British government claimed at one point there was not enough legally admissible proof to obtain a conviction of Bin Laden in a court of law. While this may have been a valuable political victory for Obama and the war against terrorism, the U.S. had more to gain by following the law and according due process to Bin Laden. This also creates a dangerous precedent.
bedrog
Sun, May 8, 2011 : 1:48 a.m.
wow...michael moore , the pakistani government and roadman #1( and a s...load of madrassah students) condemning 'extrajudicial assassination ". What a roster of worthies. where was the dudgeon of these fine folks on the assorted " extrajudicial "atrocities perpetrated/ exhorted by bin laden and ilk??? Roadman #2 wants to know. .. as does bedrog
DFSmith
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 7:49 p.m.
who cares what the UN Security Council said?
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 6:50 p.m.
There seem to be at least 2 "roadmen" posting on this site . This post is both characteristic of the one I'm used to...and at marked variance with the one i praised on another thread ( which recognized the virtues of the brilliant and successful Abbotabad operation). Or maybe there's a serious bipolar thing going on but i won't say that lest i be in "violation".
shanedr
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 5:44 p.m.
The next time the Ann Arbor.com wants to interview someone intelligent it would be wise to use an intelligent reporter. Lucy Lance's inane questions and remarks were an insult to the interviewee and your readers.
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 4:55 p.m.
There was nothing in my response to "unsureofanythings' conspiracy theory/bin laden was "murdered" riff ( shared by all those i mentioned) that should have been in violation of any discussion of these matters.
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 8:21 p.m.
df smith ...Indeed. my deleted comment to "unsure' simply said that he/she could find alot company in the anti- us/pro-bin laden demonstrations in many areas of the muslim world , especially if there's a madrassah nearby. And evidently also in a fringe of ann arbor too....
DFSmith
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 7:48 p.m.
clearly that dude is an apologist for al-Qaeda.
unsureofanything
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 3:08 p.m.
So, what was the intention of announcing "We expected a great deal of resistance and were met with a great deal of resistance"? We get a photograph of our president, vice president, secretary of state, and a host of camp followers crowded into what looks like a storage room in the basement of some warehouse (the Situation Room?) all intensely staring at… um, we don't know, but were told was real time coverage of the operation. <a href="http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpps/news/white-house-releases-pictures-from-situation-room-050211_13026507" rel='nofollow'>http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpps/news/white-house-releases-pictures-from-situation-room-050211_13026507</a> During the late hours of the night our president announces that we got him. Specifically, he says "After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body", followed later on in the speech by "We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country." While carrying out this operation these professional courageous servants of our country lose one of the Stealth helicopters (cost what – 1 billion dollars, now that 100 million is chump change?), and the helmet cameras, representative of the most advanced technology in the world, black out for 25 minutes during the most crucial time of the operation, so that whatever that congregation in the warehouse like room were staring at was, it wasn't the part of the operation during which they got him. <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html</a> Then we are told that they threw the body into the sea. For good measure we throw in a War Dog (with titanium fangs?). (<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/05/belgian-malinois-dog-osama-bin-laden_n_858050.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/05/belgian-malinois-dog-osama-bin-laden_n_858050.html</a> ) Um, huh… And now we have a serious conversation about the political implications of his most recent death by murder. If all of this works for you, consider yourself patriotic.
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 8:48 p.m.
df...i suspect his answer would be in the affirmative.
DFSmith
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 7:47 p.m.
Ok, so, you are opposed to Osama being shot? Would you rather he continued to commit acts of terrorism against Americans the world over and here on the homeland?
unsureofanything
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 3:07 p.m.
Let me see if I got this right. Osama bin Laden died of natural causes in 2001… <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html</a> …and was murdered <a href="http://truthiscontagious.com/2011/05/02/flashback-benazir-bhutto-said-osama-bin-laden-is-dead-in-2007" rel='nofollow'>http://truthiscontagious.com/2011/05/02/flashback-benazir-bhutto-said-osama-bin-laden-is-dead-in-2007</a> On May 1st, 2011, we send in a SEAL team – 80 members strong (from what I have heard, the pinnacle of combat forces throughout the world, equipped with the most advanced technology in the world) Stealth helicopters and all to take out this same elderly, sick, unarmed guy in a sparsely furnished building grandly referred to as a compound (it's always a compound – or a cave). The old guy is guarded by one man and 3 wives. "The commandos encountered gunshots from only one man, whom they quickly killed…" <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden" rel='nofollow'>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden</a> Initially we were told: "There were many other people who were armed ... in the compound," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday when asked if bin Laden was armed. "There was a firefight." "We expected a great deal of resistance and were met with a great deal of resistance," he said. "For most of the period there, there was a firefight," a senior defense official told Pentagon reporters in a briefing Monday. White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan originally suggested bin Laden was among those who was armed. "He was engaged in a firefight with those that entered the area of the house he was in," Brennan said Monday, before the administration announced bin Laden actually was unarmed although there were weapons in his room. ( <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden)" rel='nofollow'>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden)</a> Whereas: "Pakistani authorities found an AK-47 and a pistol in the house, with evidence that one bullet had been fired from the rifle, said one of the officials." ( <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden)" rel='nofollow'>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110505/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden)</a>
David Briegel
Mon, May 9, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
I wonder, did the sun rise today?
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 8:47 p.m.
df :i I think the point of "unsures" posts is to bring to this thread the sort of conspiratorial apologetics for Islamic extremism that we are seeing in the streets of assorted cities far far to the east of us...particulary after jumma prayers.
DFSmith
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 7:46 p.m.
so, what is the point ? That Osama is still alive? Or that you dont trust the Government?
shipdog7
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.
Would we like to see pictures of captured Idaho soldier Bowe Bergdah the only U.S. soldier held captive in the Afghan war dead with a bullet through the eye? Absolutely not! And that is what we are trying to avoid by releasing photos of Bin laden. We all know the "enemy" would like to retaliate and give us their "payback" by doing just that. Did we see pictures of Saddam Hussein hanging from a noose? CNN's Anderson Cooper told viewers that CNN officials "at the highest levels" would review the images and then decide what would be aired. "We are not going to just get these images and slap them on TV," Cooper reported.
p2psilantimi
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 11:54 a.m.
I agree with Prof. Edward Sidlow that it is indeed good news that Osama bin Laden is no more. This is retribution for bin Laden's criminal participation at 9-11. And I rejoice for other reasons also: (1) Like a malignant cancer, a severe threat to the peace and well-being of the people of the United States has been removed. (2) The aura of invincibility surrounding Osama bin Laden has been cast off. (3) A spark of new hope has touched my heart, like a faint light at the end of a dark tunnel.
bedrog
Sat, May 7, 2011 : 11:33 a.m.
There may well be some cascading good effects from this killing. The most important is that Pakistans incompetence( at best!) and duplicity ( more likely) ....now on view to the entire world...will scare that country to a more serious effort ,lest they lose the American aid crucial to their standoff with India,to turn in/turn on the other terrorists that have been hiding in plain sight with likely aid from the ISI ( Pakistan's intelligence apparatus). If they don't, many on both sides of the political aisle in washington are ready to further chill our already cold alliance with that country ( as they should be ). These "hidees" include Taliban founder mullah omar, and leaders of Lashkar i Taiba, the group that perpetrated the Mumbai massacre and has been officially coddled by the Pakistani government as a useful tool in the Kashmir dispute with india...which only speaks to the dunderheadedness of the ISI for believing you can endlessly dance with a tiger without getting hurt. . As to the seemliness of celebrations at the death of a known mass murderer: They make a hell of alot more sense than the far more extreme and destructive jubilations often associated with truly meaningless sporting events.