shepard145

Sat, Jan 30, 2010 : 5:23 p.m.

One problem with "pro choice" position is that they are advocating the middle ground (it's your choice) while their rivals advocate the extreme opposite. Social moderates should be "pro abortion" and encourage the procedure every bit as vehemently as the other side opposes it. If my wife were pregnant, the anti abortion crowd has already ignored science, the law and tradition and decided it's a "baby" and when we talk about our family's future, they want a seat in our living room. If they really believe it's a "baby", then abortion has been murder, there is no statute of limitations for it and they should advocate every woman who's had one be charged and imprisoned. As far as the anti forces portraying US women as using abortion as a somewhat inconvenient birth control method, I've know several chicks who've had abortions and nothing could be further from the truth. They did what they had to do but in the end there were no winners.

Ricebrnr

Sat, Jan 30, 2010 : 1:51 p.m.

Of course in a perfect world students like Katherine might get a decent sexual education class and prevent the need for such services. http://www.usnews.com/health/blogs/on-women/2010/01/26/why-teen-pregnancies-are-on-the-rise.html But seeing the world as it is and not how we'd like it to be until then the rights of those already living trump the rights of those who are not, regardless of where YOU choose to place that line. And funny how opposing sides always believe the other's arguments to be more shrill, eh?

picabia

Thu, Jan 28, 2010 : 7:19 p.m.

Katherine, your letter has sparked 36 posts and counting. Whether people agree with you or not: You go, girl!

tracyann

Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:05 a.m.

What did I just say in my previous post? It's an opinion! Period. And for the record, I do trust women, seeing as I am one.

David Briegel

Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:54 a.m.

tracyann, It doesn't matter! Period! Right wingers and anti choice people want the govt out of our lives yet, on something as personal as reproductive rights and health care YOU know what is best for everyone. You want to make the choice! You don't trust women! I do.

tracyann

Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:20 a.m.

Why is it that whenever the topic of abortion is brought up the pro-life people try to explain their point of view calmly while the pro-choice people are insulting? "It's none of your business! Stay out of it! Don't like it? Don't have one!" Really? Opinions are just opinions. Nothing more. We all have aright to think what we want whether you agree with it or not; whether you think it's "right" or not. Also, I'd like to know how many of the abortions performed are because the woman was raped as opposed to not taking proper precautions against pregnancy.

pragmatic

Mon, Jan 25, 2010 : 3:41 p.m.

Get a life. If you do do not approve of abortions, than don't have one. Stay out of the personal lives of others or go out and start adopting all the unwanted and neglected children in the world. Also, stop brainwashing your 8th graders with your extreme and dangerous views.

bedrog

Sun, Jan 24, 2010 : 7:55 a.m.

if conspiracy theorists and "slogans, and internet calumnies= thought" types( @ goblue), religious fanatics and over- zealous junior high students (who,despite passion, actually don't know all that much or usually have the maturity to seriously weigh options!) are for it, im against it on principle.....and have just sent a generous check to planned parenthood.

sbbuilder

Sat, Jan 23, 2010 : 12:12 p.m.

Well, there we have it: you can change the nature of something by simply calling it something different. I would like to take a moment, David, and examine your argument. On the one hand, you state that a person can decide when a human is a human. Am I right? O.K. That is the very definition of moral relativism. "I decide what is truth." Then, in the next breath, you state that the case is closed. Definitively. No further argument required, or allowed. Now, is that not a non-relative argument? In other words, are you saying that we absolutely must accept the belief that moral relativism is to be accepted? Wouldn't that also mean that by claiming an absolute position, you negate your position on relativism? You see, you can't have it both ways. I will positively state that I believe in moral absolutes. There is no contradiction in terms here. I will also positively state that you cannot change the very nature of something by simply changing a label. Either this is a human being everywhere, or it is not. Joyce What exactly do you mean by "...you cannot legislate another person's morals"? That is a very mushy statement. Certainly we have thousands of laws prohibiting all manner of immoral acts, behaviors. This is the foundation of law.

Joyce Beckman

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 11:43 p.m.

I am glad this opinion piece was published. It is a well-written opinion piece by an 8th grader. Many 8th grade students are not able to write or spell well. Katie, you must go with your beliefs and your heart, even though not all agree with you. All life is sacred and it is God's decision when to call that person home whether in the fetal stage or in very advanced years. However, abortion is a very complicated issue. As you grow in years and wisdom, you will have many more opportunities to stand up for your faith and beliefs. You and the class from Spiritus Sanctus will gain a lot from your participation in the upcoming march. You will gain a new appreciation that you live in America where we all still have the freedom to express our differing views. I encourage you to do so and to support others' right to do the same even if you do not agree with their views. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are rights we should not take for granted as they can easily be lost. Please do not lose sight of the fact that God is a loving God and we need to all show that love and respect to one another. One thing I would ask you and your classmates to remember, Katie, and that is that you cannot legislate another person's morals. We are all sinners, yes, even the most devout among us. Abortion, just like sex outside of marriage, will always take place whether it is legal or not. Refer to the fact that sin has always been with us and will be until Christ comes again and sets up His kingdom.

goblue32

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 10:28 p.m.

@Edward I never said that Sanger was a Nazi advisor, but other American Birth Control League/Planned Parenthood board members were. Margaret Sanger was racist, and her many writings show the true nature of the ABCL/PP and its agenda of eliminating people in the U.S. that have skin tone similar to mine. Look up Lothrop Stoddard and Harry Laughlin, both were Nazi sympathizers/advisors and board members of the American Eugenics Society and ABCL/PP. The rich, elite framed this argument of womens rights because they knew it would not hold up if people knew the real agenda.

delete this profile

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 2:54 p.m.

Thank you. And so true.

delete this profile

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 2:37 p.m.

With all due respect Edward, being an employee of the paper and posting under that title, anything you post should be unbiased. I know you're just asking someone to posts facts but your position on this subject is clearly evident in your use of "anti-choice".

goblue32

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 1:57 p.m.

David - The same members of the American Eugenics society who advised the Nazi's are the same people who were on Planned Parenthood's board for years. PP was founded on racist ideas, and your oblivious to that fact! Just because you can't see racism, doesn't mean it exists! But, in your view as an atheist is does! Look at the history of PP - recent and past. Every evil created has fell into the wrong hands of whom it was originally intended, abortion included. Abortion is racism PERIOD.

David Briegel

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 12:04 p.m.

It is the womans choice. You don't want govt to interfere with your choice and the woman sure doesn't want you to interfere with her choice. Her choice is none of your business! It becomes a human being when the mother decides. End of story. Good post Rork It is not accurate to say a womans right to choose is racist. That is what freedom means. Planned Parenthood is not a racist organization.

sbbuilder

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 10:39 a.m.

David Fortunately I have very, very thick skin, so your assertions about my seeming lack of empathy for the born, and my seeming inability to look into a mirror without flinching are like water off a duck. To stay on subject: I will ask again, what about the unborn? Is this a human being or not? When, in your view, does a human being gain that status? Please, try to answer that question. To keep this conversation appropriate to a public forum, I'll refrain from becoming too personal. However, if you would like to know more about how I have cared for the BORN for many years, I'd be glad to communicate that to you privately. You bring up many valid concerns about our current world that need serious discussion. I will readily grant that we face injustice, cruelty, poverty and on. But I would like to focus like a laser on the issue of the unborn. Can we do that?

Rork Kuick

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 8:04 a.m.

Sounds like the writers intentions are good. But that's not what matters. Ask what the actual consequences of making abortion illegal will be. Those with the means will still get safe abortions, legal or illegal. Those without are pushed to unsafe illegal ones.

goblue32

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 7:44 a.m.

David - I'm sorry if my comments appeared to be calling you racist the other night, that was not the intention. This is purely a race issue, have you watched MAAFA21? You seem to be someone who wants to do the right thing, but you have to go all the way. Planned Parenthood no longer flaunts it's openly racist policy, but it does not mean that it went away. If the KKK opened abortion clinics in "black" areas (like PP), you would protest.

goblue32

Fri, Jan 22, 2010 : 7:34 a.m.

jlkddd - The pro-DEATH side is about racism. And you partially prove my point with your inter-racial kid remark. Is a black baby less worthy to live than a white baby? Over 51% of black babies are aborted, did you know that? If 51% of white babies were aborted, this travesty wouldn't exist. Planned Parenthood came up with the "womens rights" argument after WW2 when they could no longer be open about their racism of limiting the "inferior" people with skin darker than a brown paper bag. I encourage you and everyone to watch MAAFA21, you have been misled into believing killing an innocent life is about women's rights.

David Briegel

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:39 p.m.

Ah, the unborn. Would you please, just for a tiny moment think about the poor unfortunate BORN? Please! What do we offer them? A govt where just today bribery is made legal. Perpetual War Profiteering. Bombing mostly innocent Muslim women and children with our helicopters and predator drones and tanks running through their towns and villages. No health care resulting in 45,000 deaths annually. 32nd in infant mortality for the wanted babies and all we should care about are the unwanted fetuses because of your religious views? How do you look in the mirror and rationalize that one?? Why punish the unborn child by bringing them into a world with YOUR lack of values?

sbbuilder

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 5:17 p.m.

David, David, David... Let's further your argument: So, you don't like slavery? Then don't have one! So, you don't like pedophilia? Then don't engage in it! What kind of argument is that? This argument is not about which flavor of lollypop you CHOOSE to have. There is nothing intrinsically good or bad about a lollypop. There is, however, a basic moral argument to be made about whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. (And by the way, why is that phrase never finished? Choose what? Ohh. an abortion!) And I also respectfully disagree that public schools gloss over slavery, oppression of women etc. On the contrary, I would say that undue focus is placed on some of these topics. I would go further on this subject, but believe it would be off-topic for this thread. With regard to rape, etc.; certainly there are serious consequences to these despicable acts that will last a lifetime. Certainly society at large will be affected. But the question still remains: Is this a life, or not? Why punish the unborn child with abortion if it was conceived in rape? Does rape change the status of the unborn to that of non-human? Lastly, perhaps you may have noticed the name of the school to which this girl attends. Spiritus Sanctus. My guess is that if you are going to this school, you would be delighted at the opportunity to go to D.C.

delete this profile

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 5:01 p.m.

Best wishes to you Katharine. I'm glad that at such a young age you're standing up for and being proactive about your beliefs. Being Catholic myself, I can tell you that you'll hear a lot about how you're just following the church and not thinking for yourself, that being pro-life means you're just closed minded about everything else going on in the world. I could go on and on. As one poster says, we have to listen to the other side and respect their right to an opposing opinion, but we also have to stay strong in our belief that ALL life is sacred.

Lokalisierung

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 4:56 p.m.

In all seriousness The only true revenue generating markety that isn't tapped for the future is stem cell research. In 10 years you'll be able to goto China and buy some stem cell procedure and BAM! You have a new gallbladder. Big bucks for sure, but people will pay it...so America better wake up and get ready for the new assembly line, genetics.

jlkddd

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 4:28 p.m.

I just posted a long thought out comment that was not added so I will paraphrase: Please Katherine do your research. You are still young. Understand that judgement is only for God to behold. You are not to judge someone for not believing in what you believe in. If someone does not have the same views on this as you do, they should be able to CHOOSE what they want to do, they should be able to do it with out being put in harms way. By do your research, I mean actually go talk to someone at Planned Parenthood (because I know that's the main clinic that the religous ones shove down your throat that want everyone to get an abortion, I know this because I was one of them, until I found out what really happens) and find out what they actually say to someone who walks in to a clinc. Go to talks and listen to people who have had abortions before it was legal. Whether they are legal or not, people will still seek them out. It is safer for women everywhere if they are legal, and safe.Pro-choice is NOT anit-life. Pro-Life however, is ANTI-CHOICE.

jlkddd

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 4:21 p.m.

Katherine, I understand your views on abortion. When I was in 8th grade I felt the same way. Then I went to a talk when I was in college about Roe v. Wade and what happened when abortion was illegal. I encourage you to go to one of these talks and listen to what some of the people have to say. Stories about being blindfolded in and put into a car and driven to a dark alley and the painful, aweful things that happened when they had no other choice to get a legal abortion. Think about people who have been raped, and a child being brought in to the work with the rapist would just be a constant reminder every day of their experience. The stories about the people who were like you, at the anti-choice rallys and then they became pregnant with an inter racial child, and no one wanted to adopt their child because of this. I encourage you to go to an abortion clinic like Planned Parenthood (however, keep in mind that not all planned parenthoods perform abortions), and actually talk to someone about the way that they council the women who come in to the clinic. Don't believe everything that your church is telling you, I was there once, it is not all true. I hope that you actually do more research on this then just praying. I will pray for you and your class as you make your journey, and hope that you will learn to not judge those who do not believe in the same thing as you do.

David Briegel

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 2:17 p.m.

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. It is your CHOICE! Pretty simple. I don't want any more women to die from lack of health care! The protesters don't want to teach birth control or abortion. They believe sex out of marriage is dirty and icky and women should be stuck with the results. You are right about the sordid history of public education. They gloss over things like slavery, oppression of women, attempted genocide on the indigenous Americans, American imperialism, the exploitation of the American workers, the anti union behavior of the govt and corporations and perpetual war profiteering. You know, our values!

Barb

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 1:25 p.m.

Sure, they should post it - everyone's opinions are worth reading. Once we stop listening to each other, there's no hope! As a pro-choice supporter, I would rather the prayer take place at places other than clinics, but I welcome reasonable discourse and think an 8th grader speaking her mind is a good thing. Always.

kmgeb2000

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 11:01 a.m.

Just because you get a letter to the editor doesn't mean you have to post it. I have to agree with Vicki on this one - depressing.

ann_arbor_guy

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 11 a.m.

Katherine Make no mistake about it, they will still take place illegal or not. They will become more risky and more secretive, but they will still happen. The answer is not making them illegal. It is not your place or the governments place to make these decisions for these people; they need have the freedom and access to make these types of decisions for themselves. Why not address the problem from the beginning with better sex education and birth control methods? Why not march on Washington and demand that we have the strength to be honest with ourselves and our kids and teach them the truth about sex. That we make sure that they have access to birth control and ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies before they get to this point instead of praying that this will all go away after the fact with legislation.

sbbuilder

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:53 a.m.

Longfellow: The public school have a long and sordid history of forwarding political/ legal views. Let's get that part right first, shall we?

Top Cat

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:51 a.m.

Regardless of your views on abortion, the notion that state laws and restrictions opposing abortion were "unconstitutional", as was decided in Roe vs. Wade, was totally unfounded and an abuse of judicial authority. Such a debate belongs in the state legislatures. Personally, I am pro choice.

Bill Wilson

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:46 a.m.

I guess I'd better have some more coffee and wake up: a student, I get it.

Bill Wilson

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:44 a.m.

Steve, I understood that, but it's still a distinction without a difference to me. Teachers and students have enough on their plates when it comes to education. Let's get that part right first, eh?

Steve Pepple

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:34 a.m.

The letter writer is not a teacher, she is an 8th-grade student at Spiritus Sanctus Academy, a Catholic school.

Bill Wilson

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:30 a.m.

Katharine, I'm a conservative who is not against abortion: I believe that the decision whether to abort should be the right of the individual to make. But, I respect your right to protest, with one caveat: you're taking your eighth-grade class with you? I guess I've got a problem with those who attempt to use the classroom as a forum for their or their organization's political and/or legal views. Go protest, but leave the kids out of it.

vicki honeyman

Thu, Jan 21, 2010 : 10:15 a.m.

this is depressing front-page news.