One of 31 Pioneer students suspended for scavenger hunt apologizes; family questions punishment process
Ben Durham served his punishment for participating in the annual Pioneer High School scavenger hunt that resulted in 31 students being suspended and he wants the community to know he’s sorry.
“I’m not proud of it at all,” said Durham, a now graduate of Pioneer who plans to attend Xavier University in the fall to study physics. “It’s probably one of the low points in my life.”
Photo by Wikimedia Commons user Dwight Burdette
His team ended up being one of the groups to vandalize Huron’s tennis courts.
Durham said he and many of his friends were suspended for 5 days, required to pay $90 in restitution and perform 10 hours of community service at Pioneer and missed the all-night senior party. They just want the whole incident to go away.
“From my group, specifically, we were a group of kids who had never gotten in trouble before in school and we don’t want it to stay with us,” he said. “It has to be over. We want it to be over and I think that’s the same with everyone who got in trouble.”
About 250 students were estimated to have participated in the scavenger hunt , according to Ann Arbor schools officials. Of that number, the school punished 31.
Durham’s father, Thomas Durham, said he and other parents were led to believe that many more students were going to be punished.
Thomas Durham said district officials told him that the number of students who were going to be punished was closer to 100 instead of 31. He said he’s had issues with the process school officials used to suspend the students, but, despite 7 attempts to set up meetings with district officials in the past few weeks, he’s been unable to voice his concerns to administrators.
He plans to speak to the Ann Arbor school board at Wednesday’s meeting during the public commentary portion of the meeting, the first time he’s been able to speak directly to school officials in a formal setting.
“I don’t debate that he was involved in something he shouldn’t been involved in, but my bigger concern is with the whole process and how it’s evolving here,” he said. “It doesn’t seem to have ‘justice for all’ at the top of the rung.”
Ben Durham said he drove to Huron for his team to get a picture of the already-existing graffiti done by past Pioneer students. While in the process of that, he said he and members of his group remembered that taking a tennis net from Huron was on the scavenger list.
It was a rash decision he made without thinking, Ben Durham said.
“It was a crime of opportunity,” he said. “It was there. We didn’t really think about it much and we did it, regrettably.”
Thomas Durham said he spoke to Officer Jack Foster, the Ann Arbor police liaison to the school, during a meeting between parents and school officials prior to the punishments becoming public. He suggested alternatives.
Thomas Durham said he told Foster the students should have to go to Huron and Skyline High School, which was also vandalized, and clean up the vandalism in front of their peers. He said he suggested other alternatives, which were based on community service. School officials apparently rejected the plan, he said.
“It’s less making it a win-win situation for the community and the kids, who will still feel some pain, rather than just taking things away from them,” Thomas Durham said.
Joy Durham said she felt the original punishment for her son and the members of the team he was on were unfair. However, she said she didn’t question the decision because school officials told parents that about 100 students would all be receiving the same punishment.
The first she heard the number of punished students was 31 instead of 100 was in media reports.
“Despite eye-witness accounts and written proof, they were not suspended, did not make any restitution and were allowed to participate in all senior events,” she said.
Thomas Durham said he’s had some communication with school board members, who all stand behind the decision Pioneer officials made in suspending the students.
It’s a belief he says he doesn’t understand because he doesn’t believe school board members have ever gotten the chance to hear the other side of the story.
“It’s just been a big frustration for us,” Thomas Durham said. “He (Ben Durham) did wrong and he’s been accountable. He’s paid his dues they said he had to pay. He’s been accountable and I don’t think anyone on the administration side has been accountable.”
Kyle Feldscher covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at kylefeldscher@annarbor.com or you can follow him on Twitter.
Comments
15crown00
Sat, Jun 11, 2011 : 12:25 p.m.
the parents,the wonderful parents strike again.it shouldn't surprise u that only a small part of the whole group got caught and were punished.that happens all the time to lots of different people in lots of different situations.u get caught u pay for it.u don't get caught and u just move on with life as if nothing happened. ask yourself this mommy and daddy if your kid would have not got caught would his or your name have ever been in any article about the incident?the answer of course is NO. Could administrators have dealt with it differently?probably but that's almost always the case.it's like 2nd guessing a coach but they had to make the call and they did.
Genboy
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:32 p.m.
I agree with YouWhine. Seems these days everyone is worried about what everyone else gets, instead of just looking into the mirror and taking care of themselves. The kid did the crime, did the time, and apologized. The parents should focus on their kid and the lesson they can impart, not worrying about "justice for all". MYOB and quit whining.
townie54
Fri, Jun 10, 2011 : 5:01 a.m.
theres nothing wrong with wanting to know the school officials thinking about the punishments and why only a few WERE DOLED OUT..We should know what public officials and politicians are thinking
Suit Hing Moy-Sandusky
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:14 p.m.
I am adding my comments from the previous article on this suspension. I applaud Mr. Durham for coming forward to question the process used to identify those students responsible and to get clarity on why only 31 were suspended. Although any changes in the current process will not affect my children (all 4 graduated from Pioneer), I am interested in ensuring that there is accountability and processes in place that protect the rights of the students. Previous post As a parent of a graduating senior, I am thankful that my child will no longer be subjected to this type of master discipline from a drill sergeant. Yes, I have had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of one of Mr. White's decisions which resulted in a 2 week suspension which was reduced to one after I discussed and prepared by child to defend herself against accusations and coercive tactics applied to affirm the suspension. As a parent, it is my responsibility to discipline and teach my children about their rights and also encourage them to be mature enough to make the right decisions and accept the punishment when they are wrong. We as parents (and I commend those who stepped forward) need to question whether their rights were violated when they were being questioned about the incident? Where the students coerced into admitting their participation? Let this be an opportunity for parents to become more involved with how these decisions are made and interview the kids and the parents to get a fair and equitable dialogue on how this decision was made regarding the fines, punishment and lessons learned. Congratulations to all the seniors and the best of luck in your future endeavors.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:35 p.m.
I like your thinking. The only thing is, does it matter how the information is gained, if it is honest? I mean, if you have an honest kid, they are going to admit what happened whether the information is "coerced" from them or not. Coercion is maddening. Having your child questioned without you present is frustrating. Seeing those who lie and deny not held accountable is disappointing. But none of that is going to have an affect on a person who is going to be honest, responsible and accountable for their behavior anyway. The difficult part is watching those who do not have that same internal compass get away with things. So, I give the Durhams credit for trying to address that. Although, from my experience, this is something that will be very difficult to ever change.
Katkon
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
You people just don't get it. You have a renegade bunch of school officials and a renegade bunch of school board people. But this, I realize, is not surprising - because who knows better how to handle your children than these professionals in the public school establishment? I'm done.
Katkon
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:19 p.m.
Not quite. Did I say "renegade" school board members? I meant to say, "renegade and spineless school board members".
BridgeOverTroubleWaters
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.
Really parents! Get real while there were many more students everyone did not destroy or deface property or crap on the field. The fact that his particular group of friends have never been in trouble is more distrubing. That night they did not set out to do the right thing. When did all of that become acceptable because it certainly was not cute! Their punishment should have been much more severe. They got off so easy can we just say privliged and move on...........students have been kicked out of school for less and not able to do community service or walk during graduation. He (they) have done their time and the school year has ended. Maybe these parents and others should spend the SUMMER teaching their children what is harmless fun and what is just plain stupid before they go to college. We all make mistakes and hopefully we learn from them which it sounds like he did. Hopefully, we as taxpayers won't have to pay for him and his "non trouble causing friends" in the future (prison)!
Katkon
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 4:43 p.m.
Doing the time or not doing the time is not the issue in this story. The real and serious issue is how the kids involved in this bit of stupidity were evidently handled by different standards and the tactics used by the school officials - very unbecoming brown-shirt tactics by the little sargent. If there is indeed a policy in place which governs appropriate disciplinary action in situations like this, why were they not universally applied? Not all of the students who are known to have been involved in the mayhem received any punishment at all. Was it because their name had already been engraved on the award trophy to be presented to them by school officials at graduation?
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:28 p.m.
The other thing the vandals (or more accurately their parents) seem to miss is that criminals don't get to choose their punishment. Should be obvious to even the most casual observer.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.
Kid did a crime, didn't want to do the time. Nothing new to see here. Move along..... Same Ann Arbor attitude I've had the misfortune of seeing since my youngest was in kindergarden. My kid is special. The rules shouldn't apply to my kid..blah, blah, blah. Give the kid credit. At least he apologized. Too bad the dad isn't a stand up guy like junior.
EyeHeartA2
Fri, Jun 10, 2011 : 2:25 a.m.
You are half right
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:24 p.m.
His dad IS a stand up guy. And raised a stand up kid.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 6:52 p.m.
of course it does: and yes I did read the article. "Thomas Durham said he spoke to Officer Jack Foster, the Ann Arbor police liaison to the school, during a meeting between parents and school officials prior to the punishments becoming public. He suggested alternatives."
A2Realilty
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
I think that you should actually read the article and see what the dad said before commenting. Your comment doesn't represent what the father said at all.
Dave DeVarti
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 2:30 p.m.
As always Mark Twain had something to say more than a century ago that provides some insight to these present day situations. I refer readers here to two short stories written by Twain: "The Story of the Bad Little Boy" and "The Story of the Good Little Boy." links here: <a href="http://www.washburn.edu/sobu/broach/goodboy.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.washburn.edu/sobu/broach/goodboy.html</a> and <a href="http://www.washburn.edu/sobu/broach/badboy.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.washburn.edu/sobu/broach/badboy.html</a>
A2Scooter
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:58 p.m.
It kills me that so many readers are upset that these kids were questioned "without proper legal representation" or their parents present. Are you kidding me? Once again, putting the onus on everyone but those responsible. The school officials didn't need to do that, as there were no legal charges pending at that point. And if you have a problem with them "threatening" these kids with just that, too bad. I'd hate to be a school administrator or teacher these days. It's seemingly a no-win situation. Obviously, some people (kids AND adults) need some motivation to do what SHOULD BE the "right" thing without the need of threats to their comfortable way of life. How about telling the truth when asked? Imagine that. Better still, don't do those things in the first place. When I was young, had the school phoned my parents telling then I was involved in something like this, peripherally or not, I would have been begging the school to not send me home! And you can bet, my folks would've encouraged them to be swift and harsh with the punishment. Were others involved who apparently escaped punishment? Yes. Will they come forward? Probably not. Just another life lesson: Choose your friends wisely, young grasshoppers. Some people won't think twice about throwing you under a bus to save their own skin.
J. Zarman
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:52 p.m.
Yes, it is a shame that only a fraction of those involved were identified and experienced consequences. But was the response unfair? Was it harsh? Remember that the school system stepped in, in order that criminal charges would not be filed. Had any of these students been convicted of various misdemeanors, the courts could have imposed probation, restitution fees and court costs, and community service -- likely for some, more severe than the school district's suspension/restitution/community service. What would those parents think if their student had been publicly identified in court proceedings, put on 90 days to 1 year probation, and had a criminal record of 1 or more misdemeanor convictions? In the grand scheme of things, the school district did not mete out unfair treatment, nor harsh consequences.
A2Realilty
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:08 p.m.
Based on what I know of the scavenger hunt, and I employ several high school kids who told me quite a bit, I think that the implied magnitude of the entire situation has been grossly overblown. Did the kids step over the line? Yes. Some of the items on the list were inappropriate and/or wrong. Should some sort of punishment been handed out? Yes. This was done. HOWEVER, I was strongly in favor of punishments more along the lines of what Thomas Durham recommended. I think that these types of punishments would have been more beneficial to the students and the community. Was the process that determined who was at fault handled well? Probably not. It probably could have been done better. I've been told that some student names were offered to the principal specifically because they were good students without any track record of behavior problems. The thinking was that these kids would be unlikely to tattle on others and the principal would be unlikely to harshly punish them because of their individual history. Depending upon what Thomas Durham has to say to the school board, I think that it may be beneficial for our administrators to hear it. It is likely that our schools will face this type of situation again in the future. We should look at what we did (process & punishments) to see if improvements can be made for the next incident. Additionally, I think that it would be wise to evaluate if anything proactive can be done next year. I think it likely that there will be another scavenger hunt; perhaps next year's students can partner with the principal to make sure that the scavenger hunt is fun, but not destructive or inappropriate.
FoxviewFarm
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:05 p.m.
My son said in a moment of adolescent moodiness "-I've never gotten in trouble, I don't do what everyone else is doing, what's the good in being good? I still get ..."fill in the blank. Not from anything like Pioneer nor is he from pioneer but more like doing the dishes after dinner. Yeah- I'm mean. My reply was- there is no outside reward in being good- it's internal, and means you'll grow into being fine, upstanding adult and get the rewards later in life. This young man will do just that. As for his parents- if we do not have our parents sticking up and supporting us, trying as hard as they can to make life fair, being good examples of parenting, who else will? I am sure his parents are fine and accept the punishment- but is it fair that those that 'fessed up get off scott free? Nope. I'm sure they all know this, and I bet his parents assisted in his decision to write an apology. Everyone will move on and he has a terrific example of how to handle himself in college.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:21 p.m.
I agree completely!
Heather
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 11:10 a.m.
If three people rob a bank and only one of them gets caught, the judge still must decide what is an appropriate punishment for the one who was caught.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:34 p.m.
And what the police said to the parents and students initially: If 3 people rob a bank, the one who steals the money would get (example) 15 years in prison, the one who drove the get away car would get 10 years and the one who sat back at the hide out and counted the money would get 5 years.....this is what the police department said in a meeting with parents. This is also what was recommended to the administration (in front of parents) though Pioneer opted to originally indicate they would be demanding the exact same punishment on each student. Obviously this wasn't the case when after they selected those 31 students for suspension EVERYONE after those 31 were allowed to merely have the threat of suspension. Pioneer and Ann Arbor Public Schools decided that those 31 students were a perfect select group to use as an example. Funny though, of those 31 students - a few of them were allowed to continue school and athletic activities if they pulled the correct 'heart strings' of Michael White.
average joe
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:07 a.m.
Would the father of this recent graduate rather have the school get the legal system involved? This guy needs to let it go...
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 4:56 a.m.
Those first 31 students admitted and accepted their punishments along with carrying the punishments that should of been extended to the other 100 plus kids that lied and said they did not participate. Some of those kids could be your own children but you would never know that if the school couldn't get them to admit to what they did, they never contacted parents until the suspensions were served. Did any of you consider the fact that this isn't about right or wrong, this is about rules our children are required to follow, parents are required to follow and administrators that are also required to follow but did not in this situation. The winning team that posted pictures on Facebook of their 'illegal acts' were turned in thru the 'tell us who else you know participated and we will go easier on you' promises and because of better negotiation skills than the rest of the kids, were able to remain in school, participate in athletics (even though the coaches knew also), take their final exams and attend school activities. You can't tell me that reading this article makes any of you experts in what you would do if it was your daughter or son. It is pathetic that the administration opted to skewer 31 students when they had proof of additional students.
townie54
Fri, Jun 10, 2011 : 4:48 a.m.
or more money for lawyers or their parents are big donaters
Katkon
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.
Exactly so. The larger issue in this story is the apparent arbitrary nature of the discipline process.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:35 p.m.
Who knows.
ViSHa
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 11:57 a.m.
just curious about the first 31, were they called alphabetically? was it random?
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 4:55 a.m.
I am embarrassed to read comments from educated adults. How can you hang the parents from this article when they aren't trying to say their kids did no wrong, it is a parent who is trying to get this in front of those of you that may someday be faced with the same situation. The administration at Pioneer brought students into the office and interigated them behind closed doors, did not allow them parents present when asked, threatened them with arrest if they did not admit to what happened and were told that they would not be punished as bad as others if they 'ratted out' other participants. Well, by the time the news spread thru the school that all you had to do was lie and say you weren't there, you were not suspended.
Katkon
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:59 a.m.
Why ARE members of the Board refusing to meet with Mr. Durham and refusing to provide any explanation for their decision to punish only 31 of the 100 students who were originally tagged for inappropriate activity? The public should also know the method by which this school extracted information from the students regarding this unfortunate and poorly-conceived senior adventure. Each student was called before a panel of four school administrators, without their parents or any other adult representative present with that student, and told basically to confess their part in the crimes. How intimidating would that be for almost anyone?? There is no court in this land that would require citizens to defend themselves without the benefit of some legal representation - as it should be. How can this imperious group of school administrators act in such a heavy-handed manner in their handling of these kids? So many questions that apparently no one on the school side feels require explanation. Why? Where is the accountability?
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:17 p.m.
There might be not court in the United States that would require citizens to defend themselves without the benefit of some legal representation, however, it is common practice in our very own legal system to exact information from children without parents or legal representation present. And, yes, lying is absolutely allowed to get that information, also.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:37 p.m.
Here here!!! Someone who actually gets the message of the article. Administration accountability!!
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:16 a.m.
This is not about whining nor is it a tempest in a teacup or even in a teapot. The kid is stand-up because his parents are. But clearly justice was not meted out fairly and that's what this is all about. I really sympathize with the dad who has not been able to get an "audience" with district officials. I've had the same problem myself. I have found the Ann Arbor school boards, superintendents, and other officials incredibly unresponsive to parental concerns over the years and I had 5 kids go through Ann Arbor Public Schools. The injustice involved in this situation makes me angry and I'm not even personally involved. What sort of message are the kids who accepted responsibility and the consequences getting? And perhaps more importantly, what sort of message are the equally guilty kids who got away with it getting?
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:14 p.m.
True in the school system. True in the legal system. Let's see some of these kids get some positive recognition for being honest, and being responsible. I am not saying let them off the hook, because we want them to learn through the consequences that they receive. But we don't want them to learn that they will be better off by lying and denying (like they see happen with so many others.) In these situations the parents are always left trying to explain that it is still better to be honest and accountable; that the unpunished children are actually on the losing end in the long run.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:43 p.m.
If you talk to the students who participated and got away with it....they are laughing that it was so easy to let the first 31 who were honest and admitted to participation hang. They have been able to finish out their high school in grand fashion, academically and athletically but with the remembrance that they got off scott free by denying their involvement. So good job Ann Arbor Public Schools. You just taught all the up and coming senior students AND parents of those students that it is better to lie than tell the truth.
AROOMINA2
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:03 a.m.
@Annarbor.com Please just post people's replies instead of 'hiding them'. We all open them up anyway and it loses something in the translation... @JohnnyA2"That attitude is why things in the world do not change. Translation: "Kids, just shut up be seen and not heard, and accept your lot in life" I suppose you would tell the same thing to a person of color who a teacher called the N word to grow up and realize life isnt fair? People who accept the life is not fair mantra are those that love the status quo. It is a horrible job of parenting on your part. I am glad you like having midless zombies for children" Ok @JOHNNYA2 I'll bite...just what will Mr. Durham's one way communication tonight at the Board meeting actually accomplish? "Sounded like a fun scavenger hunt until things went really wrong. Next year? Us parents will keep a better watch on our children. Right parents?" @jns131...In the words of the current vernacular "That's what she said". Nor do I believe that you will have your kid stay home and forego this tradition. I have spoken to 3 current Juniors and ALL 3 said "Totally, we are going to participate in next years scavenger hunt" Nuff said.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:08 p.m.
I third it.
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:46 a.m.
I second the request to stop hiding the replies.
AROOMINA2
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:05 a.m.
To add all 3 Juniors who said that they would participate HANDS DOWN next year were females!!!
jrigglem
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:49 a.m.
Won't go away if he keeps his name in the newspaper. Google searches find everything nowadays. This article will show up for years to come.
Bear
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:07 a.m.
Geez! I can see it now: "Presidential candidate's campaign derailed by high school scavenger hunt; details at 11." Gimme a break.
townie54
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:07 a.m.
he is taking his punishment so how about the school officials come on this forum or some other public forum and tell us the reason only the 31 were punished.I have no connection to any of them but am curious about the reason.I have some ideas why but dont want to be deleted so I wont say
porchbear
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 11:51 p.m.
Good luck at Xavier this fall, Ben! You've been a man about this whole situation. Don't worry about those who weren't punished - you are far better off than them in the long run. Soon this incident will fade to a childish mistake in your past, and believe me we all have them.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:07 p.m.
I second porchbear's comment completely.
jns131
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 11:25 p.m.
Does anyone know what they did with that Paul Bunyan statue? That was one prank that was done I think by the class of 80. This incident needs to go away. I agree that the parents are overboard. Let it ride, let us not forget for if we do? Then shame on all of us. Sounded like a fun scavenger hunt until things went really wrong. Next year? Us parents will keep a better watch on our children. Right parents? Good luck to the class of 11.
a2citizen
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 11:19 p.m.
He got caught. He did his time. He even publicly apologized. Ben states "... we don't want it to stay with us." Don't worry it won't. Now, if the administrators had chosen to involve the law it would have stayed with you. If every kid's future was jeopardized by something this trivial kids would have stopped having a future a long time ago.
Carole
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:40 p.m.
This individual made a bad choice (we all do at times), he was accountable for his choice, paying the piper so to speak. I, for one, am very proud of him. Continue on - You will go a long ways in all your future endeavors. Those who participated in the event and did not stand up to be accountable, very irresponsible. Life sometimes goes that way - but the only individual you need to be concerned with is what you did -- that which was right.
genericreg
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:11 p.m.
Why so much poop. Dillon Pearce, this 100 studentss. Not normal.
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:44 a.m.
These comments are childish and contribute nothing to the discussion. You all sound like you're in elementary school and just learned a new word that will get a rise out of adults if spoken in their presence.
huh7891
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 11:30 p.m.
Generic.. I wrote the word poop and my comment got deleted...not fair! LOL
cibachrome
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:06 p.m.
Perhaps his study of physics will lead to the stunning discovery of where all the Dark Matter in the Universe is: It's in Ann Arbor, or course !
John B.
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:02 p.m.
Note to Thomas Durham: Here's what I've told my children (among lots of other things, like be honest and take pride in whatever you do!): You're born, life isn't fair, you pay taxes, then you die. Kwitcher bellyachin.' Sounds like Ben has learned the lesson!
bern
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.
There is no objective standard for "fairness". Fairness is always a subjective assessment, and there will, therefore, always be "unfairness" or a sense of it by someone. This doesn't mean you can't strive for equality of opportunity in your community. But to complain because 69 people "got away with" some act or other when your son did not strikes me as vindictive. I very much doubt the parent here would have complained about "unfairness" had his son been one of the 69.
johnnya2
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:24 p.m.
That attitude is why things in the world do not change. Translation: "Kids, just shut up be seen and not heard, and accept your lot in life" I suppose you would tell the same thing to a person of color who a teacher called the N word to grow up and realize life isnt fair? People who accept the life is not fair mantra are those that love the status quo. It is a horrible job of parenting on your part. I am glad you like having midless zombies for children
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.
"I don't debate that he was involved in something he shouldn't been involved in, but my bigger concern is with the whole process and how it's evolving here," he said. "It doesn't seem to have 'justice for all' at the top of the rung." Translation: Other kids got away with this but his did not, and that's not fair. And we wonder why these kids acted as they did. Good Night and Good Luck
grye
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.
Kids will do the darndest things. As their brains mature, so will they. GOOD x (LUCK + NIGHT)
Bogie
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:58 p.m.
I don't question, that some students got away with punishment, but it does show the times. Worry about your own kid! He will face many situations in life, where he is not treated fairly. We wonder why public education is costing us so much. Can you imagine the thousands of parents, the administrators of state wide schools, have to hear whine? "Little Jimmy" isn't be treated fairly. The teacher just doesn't like "Little Jimmy." I, as a parent wishes that other parents wouldn't try to create an utopia world for their child. He did it. He paid. Ya, some other people got away with it. Get over it.
Genboy
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:37 p.m.
It strikes me as similar to some of the places I have worked, where some people are always fretting about what salary everyone else makes, and whether they are compensated equally (or better, of course, would be fine too). Just worry about yourself and your own story, right!?
tomnspats
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:41 p.m.
Stop sending the message to your kid that everyone will be treated fairly.Life has never worked like that.I believe that they were given a bonus by being able to walk in the graduation ceremony.High school is suppose to be a learning experience.Had these poor students not been allowed to walk next years crop would think a little more about senior pranks.The old boys in prison will share this wisdom: "Can't do the time ? Don't do the crime" Ann Arbor Schools have a perpetual "one more chance policy" The students are aware of this and it does not reflect the real world.
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:40 a.m.
We have to teach our kids about fairness. Don't we want them to be fair with others? And I'd like to remind everyone that these are adolescents with adolescent, not adult, brains. They won't have adult brains until they're about 25. This is science. This was a senior prank. We have a long history of senior pranks in this country as far as I know. No one got hurt, there was no horrendous drunk driving accident, no one had a gun or any other weapon that I know of. They didn't think the thing through, they made a mistake. Some of them accepted the consequences. Some didn't. We can't give up on fairness in the world just because we don't see a lot of it around us. I too am absolutely appalled at the tone of many of these comments.
Bear
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.
Being treated fairly in society is the ideal. It is what we strive for. Listening to you comment here makes me wonder why you think we should give up that ideal, just because it isn't always that way. With that kind of thinking we'd have never gotten to the moon or achieved any real social change in this country. With that type of attitude we might just as well give up and abandon our hopes for a better future. We should just create an atmosphere of mistrust & fear of retribution. What kind of message is that to give our kids to take into the future with them? Many of the comments on this thread are ludicrous!
johnnya2
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:21 p.m.
Really? Have you been fired from a job over one mistake? Should your license be revoked for speeding? It is BREAKING THE LAW. It is criminal. More people were actually at risk than from somebody pooping on a football field. So get off your high horse. Unless you have never broken a law, you are as much a criminal as these kids.
djm12652
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:38 p.m.
Was the defacting incident on the scavenger list? Who prepares this list? If someone within the school system is involved, either directly or indirectly...who might that be and was approval for this list given? Or perhaps the Student Council [looks great on college apps] was involved..[not so great for future leaders]...I still have a hard time understanding how anyone with a modicum of civility could be so uncouth.
John B.
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
But yet you're obsessed with it? Hmmm..... Of course no one in a position of authority or responsibiity (read as: adult)created the 'full' list. It was students - hello!
djm12652
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:38 p.m.
duh, defecating...don't even care to spell it correctly
loves_fall
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:15 p.m.
I'm not so much a fan of this statement: "'From my group, specifically, we were a group of kids who had never gotten in trouble before in school and we don't want it to stay with us,' he said. 'It has to be over. We want it to be over and I think that's the same with everyone who got in trouble.'" That's nice, these are consequences of their actions and he should realize that. They did something wrong, and it will stay with them until society moves on to something else. They should have considered the possibility of this sticking with them before they chose to vandalize things. For a lot of kids who are less fortunate, one strike means that they ARE out, for the rest of their lives. These kids are lucky that they didn't end up with criminal records and the sense of entitlement behind the statement that things should just be allowed to be swept under the rug is pretty unattractive.
loves_fall
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Kids don't choose to go hungry or be homeless, but they do choose to take part in criminal activities. They bring the consequences of their actions completely upon themselves. These kids ARE lucky that they weren't prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, unlike many kids who will participate in "regrettable" actions and will spend their lives behind bars regretting their poor decisions. Just because other kids got even luckier doesn't mean that it's wrong to punish those who were caught. Like others have said, life's not fair. Ideally no one would "get away with it", but we can either err on the side of wrongfully convicting innocent people or letting a few bad guys/high school miscreants go free and I think society favors the latter (and rightfully so). If there are other kids out there that the school knows are just as guilty, then sure, punish them too. Somehow I suspect that some students were probably more guilty than others, and the punishments dished out (or not dished out) probably reflect that.
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:32 a.m.
So you're saying that because some other kids are less fortunate, these kids should feel lucky. Would you tell your kids they can't have dinner because there are kids who don't have any dinner. Or tell them they have to sleep outside tonight because other kids are homeless. Wouldn't it be a better stand to fight for justice for all. Yea, these kids are fortunate. And perhaps some of them will go on to some day be the people who will fight for the less fortunate of this world. Yea, these kids are lucky not to have had trouble with the law over these regrettable pranks. But does that really excuse the other guilty kids who got off with no consequences at all?
grye
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:06 p.m.
Young Mr. Durham admitted his mistake and has accepted his punishment like a man. Can't say the same for his parents. Sounds like they need to grow up.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:02 p.m.
Although this article may not make it sound like it, Ben learned that sense of responsibility from his parents.
grye
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 2:39 p.m.
Parents that whine about the lack of discipline or consequences for the other students when their child was in the wrong need to grow up. The parents are responsible for their child. Their child did wrong. The punishment was adequate and maybe should have been more. But to whine that others were not punished was wrong, especially after their child was willing to accept his actions were wrong. It may take a village to raise a child and should they have had knowledge of the upcoming "scavenger hunt" maybe could have stopped it, but their son has set a shining example of responsibility and didn't put blame of his actions on any other individual. They should follow that shining example.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:57 p.m.
No - they are just trying to protect your student from having to face the same process of this administration without the knowledge of how they treat students and even worse - parents. There is accountability and fairness written into the bylaws of the Ann Arbor School constitution - NONE of this was followed. There was only abuse by a Principal who had the power to scare the crap out of students and loved the fact that he could without any accountability or process. This is nothing about telling parents to grow up...again, another intelligent response.
Former A2rite
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:48 p.m.
I bet if dad's son hadn't been one of the 31, he wouldn't be trying to get others reprimanded! I agree with the other commenter that someone's crying the It's Not Fair song. Accept and move on. It seems like the student has. Smart guy.
Christy Summerfield
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 3:25 a.m.
I'm wondering where the parents of the kids who weren't punished are. What sort of message are they giving their kids by allowing them to duck their responsibility.
smokeblwr
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:44 p.m.
I just want to know who defecated on the athletic fields. That is still the one heinous act that shocks me from this long nightmare of a story.
Genboy
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 5:34 p.m.
We need a photo of the feces.
Davidian
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 12:20 a.m.
Never seen a turd before? Murder is a heinous crime. The hyperbole on here is pretty outrageous.
Dot
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:33 p.m.
have you checked youtube?
Haggis_Chihuahua
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:41 p.m.
"I don't think anyone on the administration side has been accountable." I don't think anyone on the administration side defecated on the other school's tennis courts. Why should they be held accountable for anything? If young Mr. Durham was treated differently from others who participated, well, that's unfortunate. But life isn't always fair. It's a lesson he'd have to learn eventually. Now's as good a time as any to learn it.
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.
Get your story straight - Huron had tennis nets removed. Skyline had students leaving piles on the football field. There were 6 tennis nets removed at Huron of which 1 car of 5 students and 1 car of 8 students were the ones who split the penalty for the other 4 cars that denied being there by the time they were called to the office. They had proof (Facebook announcements and pictures) of the other participants but oh well. They had 31 students who were honest and took the fall for the rest of you. Yeah, life isn't fair.
bob
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:37 p.m.
Often the problem is that those who admit responsibility get punished and those who deny any responsibility go scott free. This seems to be an ongoing problem with the schools and their zero tolerance policies. The punishment should fit the crime and should be progressive...kind of like our legal system is suppose to work. Not saying that the young man in the article didn't deserve to be punished but I can understand his parents frustration with the school administration.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 6:59 p.m.
I think Mr. White did a good job of walking a middle ground as far as making a point, giving a consequence and keeping the legal system out of it: I do believe that this statement "Often the problem is that those who admit responsibility get punished and those who deny any responsibility go scott free. " is true not just at the school, but in the legal system as well.....
Tommy Curtis
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 1:05 p.m.
Tthe progressive punishment was suggested by the police to Mr. White and Mr. Hudson but the administration opted to ignore the 'punishment should be fair and equitable' which is what is written in the Ann Arbor Public School bylaws. They wanted to make a point with these 31 students. Too bad it didn't work.
aajeff
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 8:09 p.m.
I agree. It seems to me the article was about the parents frustration with the administration refusing to meet with them. The kid did something wrong, served his punishment and moves on. Adminsitrators have an obligation to meet with parents. I do understand the parents frustration. Luckily all of my kids got through Pioneer without difficulties but I can tell you it is a frustrating experience dealing with (some) of that staff at Pioneer. I remember a year or so ago my son needed to talk to a counselor about a class. The counselor never responded to him and it took three messages left (over 8 days!) for her to call me. When she finally did she was very upset with me that I was so insistant that she call me and my reminding her that I had left previous messages with no return call. She had an outrageous attitude and explained how busy she was and I was not the only parent (or student) that she needed to get back to. Finally, at the meeting with me she had another staff member present because she said I sounded so "so upset". Ridiculous.
bluemax79
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:22 p.m.
you whine did you read the story or just the headline? the parents admit he did wrong but so did approx 125 other kids, only 31 were punished??? why not all of them as the school originally said would be punished? their parent have more influence in the community? THAT was the question, NOT trying to get him out of paying for what he did.
johnnya2
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 10:15 p.m.
Actually, it SHOULD be a major concern. If those that take some form of responsibility are the ones punished, and those that deny deny deny, get off with no punishment it sends the message that it is better to deny. Fair punishment IS the cornerstone of all punishment. If a murderer gets community service, while a person smoking pot gets life in prison it proves how the justice system is not about justice, but about the advesarial relationship. I would never admit to ANYTHING ever because authorities are so hell bent on proving how much punishment they give out.
RuralMom
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:33 p.m.
More concern for "fair" punishment verses being remorseful and contrite for the childs portion of the chaotic prank. It doesn't seem they get the message when they are more concerned about others punishment, instead of being grateful their childs punishment was done in a manner that didn't interfere with their graduation, college plans or future record. They should be HAPPY that's all he got, not worried about how many kids were given consequences.
a2grateful
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:15 p.m.
Hey, Ben . . . We forgive you . . . We had forgotten about it until this story . . . So, look forward . . . Move on to better days . . . Your amazing future awaits! Best wishes to all the 2011 HS graduates! Otherwise, here we go again . . . More tempest in a teacup . . .
YouWhine
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:09 p.m.
Wow. It seems this kid has more sense than his parents. He knows enough to admit he did wrong, take the punishment (which was nice enough NOT to include criminal prosecution) and put it behind him as he moves on. However, Mommy and Daddy want to make excuses and whine and cry because their precious snowflake got caught doing something wrong. Given their attitudes, I am amazed that the kid has the grounding to know he was wrong.
CincoDeMayo
Thu, Jun 9, 2011 : 7:48 p.m.
Wow. Is right. Funny how parents get the blame when their child misbehaves, but don't get the credit when their child is honest, responsible and willing to be held accountable. "Mommy and Daddy" here did a fantastic job of raising such a young man. (Thank you Thomas and Joy Durham for raising such a person.) Although, it is not something I would do, I admire those who will step up and try to improve a flawed system - especially when caught in its midst. I feel like this is how things work, and will work, for ever as long as I have known it and will ever know it. I also think that Michael White did a good job of taking a middle of the road approach and keeping the students out of the legal system. However, I give credit to parents who will use their energy, against all odds, to try to right a situation that has resulted in unfair consequences. That determination that some parents have to improve a process is incredible and probably further adds to the integrity of their children.
Bob W
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:47 p.m.
YouWhine, you hit the nail on the head. Dad should take a lesson from his son.
kdadnick
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:28 p.m.
I didn't interpret this at all from their story -- as a matter of fact, I was thrilled to see that the father believed his son (and others) should have been responsible for cleaning up the vandalism at the other schools rather than just doing "community service" in his own school. I understand this article to be the dad questioning why there weren't another 69 students also punished. Fortunately, this particular student DOES show that he has a good head on his shoulders, and I suspect he will be off to Xavier without this ever hanging over his head!
Ricebrnr
Wed, Jun 8, 2011 : 7:08 p.m.
Maybe someone can ask the miscreants who stole our STOP sign to return it.