MDOT willing to consider reducing Ann Arbor's North Main Street from 4 to 3 lanes
In a recent Q&A with AnnArbor.com, Eli Cooper, Ann Arbor's transportation program manager, talked about the idea of reducing North Main Street from four to three lanes with added bike lanes.
Now an official from the Michigan Department of Transportation says the state would be willing to consider the idea if the city formally requests it.
MDOT is planning a major construction project along the North Main corridor — a US-23 business route — between Huron Street and M-14 in 2018.
Mark Sweeney, manager of MDOT's regional office in Brighton, said the city hasn't yet formally requested a lane reduction as part of the project, so the state isn't actively considering it.
Ann Arbor's North Main Street is four lanes right now, two lanes in each direction, but the city has considered a reduction to three lanes with added bike lanes and a center lane that could be reversible for incoming traffic in the morning and outbound traffic in the afternoon.
Kyle Mattson | AnnArbor.com
Instead of a typical "road diet" where what's left is one lane in each direction and a center left-turn lane, Cooper said, the idea is to use that new center lane as a reversible managed lane.
So, in the morning peak periods there could be two lanes serving inbound traffic, and in the afternoon peak periods there could be two lanes in the outbound direction.
"And during the other periods, just have one lane in each direction with the space leftover being used for bicycle lanes," Cooper said.
"We don't know whether that's a feasible alternative from an engineering design standpoint, but I anticipate that MDOT or the city will take a closer look at that as they get closer to the project they have to reconstruct or rehabilitate that stretch of roadway."
MDOT already agreed to the city's request to convert a portion of Jackson Avenue from four to three lanes with added bicycle lanes when it does work along that corridor next year. The section being converted extends from east of Maple Road to Revena Boulevard.
Cooper said a managed or reversible lane approach is a treatment seen more commonly on bridges and also used for event traffic.
"The city uses a version of this technique along South Main on football Saturdays," he said, noting managed lane systems also are found around the Pontiac Silverdome and Palace of Auburn Hills.
So-called "road diets," which typically involve reducing roads from four to three lanes, are part of the city of Ann Arbor's Nonmotorized Transportation Plan. In addition to providing center left-turn lanes, such diets can involve additions of bike lanes and crosswalks with pedestrian islands. Here the city gives an example of a road diet on Platt Road. A road diet on North Main could involve using the center lane as a reversible managed lane.
Courtesy of City of Ann Arbor
But it's an idea that might merit consideration as the North Main corridor is limited in width and serves many purposes, Cooper said.
At this time, the scope of work MDOT is planning along North Main includes a two-course milling and resurfacing of the existing pavement, with full pavement reconstruction in the areas between Felch and Depot streets, and the two blocks north of Huron Street, which is an I-94 business loop.
Also included will be curb and gutter and drainage improvements, and a right turn lane at Depot Street, according to MDOT.
Sweeney noted this is only what is planned at this time, and the scope and schedule are subject to change due to funding availability.
According to MDOT records, the last time North Main was worked on was in 1997 and 2000, which is when the state did single-course milling and resurfacing projects.
The city's Capital Improvements Plan shows more than $4 million for sanitary sewer improvements along North Main in the next six years, $800,000 for water main upsizing, $165,000 for storm sewer outlet relocation, and $900,000 for improved non-motorized access to West Huron River Drive.
As the city moves forward with plans to transform its old maintenance yard at 721 N. Main into a greenway park with trails, Ann Arbor officials have been looking for ways to improve the North Main corridor for pedestrians and bicyclists and provide better connections between points east and west, possibly adding a pedestrian bridge over the road.
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's email newsletters.
Comments
P. J. Murphy
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 3:40 p.m.
I've traveled the North Main corridor countless times, both as a motorist and a cyclist. It's not particularly pleasant in a car, and unacceptably dangerous on a bicycle. It's too narrow, the traffic flow is too fast, many times a day it just seems to be road bursting at it's seams. Despite the vehement, at times near hysterical level of opposition expressed here I think MDOT's proposal is worth a try. First because it represents an approach to traffic control that has worked elsewhere. Second, because relatively speaking it's inexpensive. And third, even if it doesn't help, it's easy to undo. The major flaw in the arguments and dire predictions arrayed against this plan is that they have no local examples that demonstrate that it's not likely to work. On the contrary, local road conversions have generally, once the hoopla subsides, have proved to be real improvements to quality of life for road neighbors, pedestrians, cyclists, and yes, even the beleaguered motorists. The North Main corridor stands as a good example what happens to a road when only one measure is used to evaluate functionality. Vehicle traffic flow. The result is a road that tends to be over used and distinctly unpleasant in every other dimension. MDOT's plan is a modest proposal to tinker with the equation, to transform the road into something more appealing and useful to multiple users without sacrificing it's basic role as a thoroughfare. This is not a prelude to the apocalypse, an attack on personal freedom, or even likely to seriously inconvenience those who use the road on a daily basis. The dire predictions here are based on speculation and emotion rather than any empirical data.
liebezeit
Wed, Jun 5, 2013 : 1:07 p.m.
Someone explain why we need two lanes that lead to one lane.
zanzerbar
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 11:19 a.m.
I would suggest improving( widening ) the sidewalk or building a separate bike lane outside of the road way. There is just too much commuter, truck,bus traffic, to safely bike in the motorway. Even though there is a merge required to enter M14, all 4 lanes are needed because of the volume of traffic.
Carole
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 10:40 a.m.
Fix those streets that are in need of repair. Thank you.
Frustrated in A2
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 2:52 a.m.
I agree with you 100% Mr. Ranzini expect you used and mayor and common sense in the same paragraph. I don't think sense is all that common over in the Larcom building Lol!
dae
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:45 a.m.
Reversable center lane would cause more confusion and become a problem much more than some roundabouts are. One lane north and one lane south with a center lane sounds like a better idea if there are bike lanes installed.
Dan Ezekiel
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:29 a.m.
No cyclist in their right mind would ride on N. Main in its present configuration, but we need to somehow connect the major bike corridor on Huron River Dr. and the rest of the Border to Border Trail towards Ypsi. I don't know if this is exactly the right plan, but it moves us in the right direction. Please remember that most of us cyclists are also motorists at times, as well as pedestrians. Almost every bike you see on a road = one fewer car on that road at that time. Even though it seems incovenient to pass slow moving bikes, we do also UNclog the streets. Also, we are saving tax dollars by staying fit and not using the health system as much (though this may be offset by living longer and thus consuming more social security). : >
Tom Joad
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:56 a.m.
Having two lanes leading to M-14 contains an ultimate bottleneck as you merge onto the freeway from the right lane. Many drivers speed by those who already correctly lined up in the right line hoping they can squeeze in at the last second, or more correctly they muscle their way in. Having one lane leading to M-14 will force everyone to be in the "right" right lane to begin with. Getting onto M-14 is another matter (good luck merging). Whether it's two lanes or one the traffic doesn't move any faster; you still have to be in one lane to get onto M-14. It's all psychological with most of those opposed to this plan. They think something is being taken away from them, well it is the danger, frustration and frenzy of having to get into the right lane.
Plubius
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:19 p.m.
Will the stupidity never stop? Making roads narrower is completely wrong. This concept also further supports my hypothesis that engineers in the bottom 20% of their class go into traffic planning.
Merlin
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:09 p.m.
When considering changes to Ann Arbor roadways, it is important to step back and look at the big picture. North Main Street is the primary access route between downtown/UM Health System and M-14 and US –23. This interchange works well for those traveling to or from the east. For those traveling to or from points west, the M-14 interchange at North Main does not provide access to the city. It lacks an exit ramp for eastbound traffic onto North Main. Similarly, there is no entrance ramp from North Main onto westbound M-14. Consequently, the primary connectors on the west side of Ann Arbor (Huron, Jackson, Dexter, Miller, and Liberty Streets) carry a high volume of inbound traffic to the city in the morning, and outbound traffic in the evening. With ever increasing development downtown, it is just a matter of time before these Westside connectors lose their ability to handle peak commuter loads. The M-14 interchange at North Main ultimately needs to be reconfigured address these shortfalls, providing commuters from points west with vastly improved access to the city. This will, or course, increase traffic volumes on North Main Street. Therefore, the current proposal and discussions with M-Dot to reduce the number of lanes on North Main is exactly the opposite of what should be ensuing. Discussions should be taking place with M-Dot related to reconfiguring the North Main / M-14 Interchange and developing the North Main corridor as the new and improved gateway to the city. As a biker, I would much prefer to ride on a path along the river than adjacent to traffic lanes. I see no reason why future plans for the North Main corridor could not provide this.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:59 p.m.
@Merlin: excellent points! While they are at it, they should figure out how to extend Huron Parkway from Nixon past Pontiac to the Barton exit, and reconfigure the Barton exit on M-14 Eastbound to make it safer. This will help a lot with access to the north side of Ann Arbor.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:57 p.m.
Dear MDOT, please read the posts in A2.com and consider that the majority of people in Ann Arbor do not want a new train station especially on Fuller Road. If the city makes a request for you to view plans for its newest road diet endeavor, please keep in mind this is not what the majority wants. Although the majority has requested that this new train station be put to vote, and the citizens apparently have no choice but to accept the road diets Mr. Cooper and cronies propose, it will not happen as Ann Arbor is under dictatorship!
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:35 p.m.
it will not happen meaning any vote by the citizens to approve such "projects"
Kyle Mattson
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:52 p.m.
I'm a bit late to the game here and I know this will probably get down voted, but in this scenario I can see the potential for a roundabout being integrated into the plan in the area where Huron River Dr, N Main and the ramps come together. I'm not sure if there is enough easement for one to be constructed, but that's the only solution I'm seeing to improve the safety of the ramps while also keeping M-14 access from Huron River Dr.
Thaddeus
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:15 a.m.
The traffic volumes are already too high for a single-lane roundabout here. A two-lane roundabout would more than handle the current traffic volumes but of course as you allude to is that much more an easement issue.... I have not looked at it close enough to know whether or not this may be feasible.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:34 p.m.
I love Huron River Drive! We need the bike lanes there! And a sidewalk! And a...
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10 p.m.
No offense but this sounds worse than it is now!
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.
All aboard!
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:29 p.m.
Decisions, decisions! My gosh, I can't decide how much stock to buy in trains! Hmmm... no, still can't decide!
say it plain
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:42 p.m.
This is a joke, right? It's got to be a joke.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.
Choo! Choo!
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:25 p.m.
I have never seen a bicyclist with grocery shopping on the back of their bikes. Isn't there a limit to how much one can bring on a bus? So you want people to shop daily?
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:17 p.m.
U of M employees use N. Main coming off 14 and Jackson Road coming off 94. Can't anyone see what the agenda is? The train! The train! Hey, let's all get rid of our cars! Rezone our neighborhoods so we can have stores within walking distance and then we can...
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:59 a.m.
Again, most U of M employees use N. Main coming off 14 and Jackson Road coming off 94 to get to UMMC. The more difficult it is to drive, they think the more people will use the train but not one single UMMC employee I know of said they would take the train for many reasons.
G. Orwell
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:10 a.m.
How does a road diets on Main St. and Jackson Rd. help to have the train station built on Fuller Rd? I do not see the correlation.
G. Orwell
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:06 a.m.
It is much bigger than the train. It is our way of life. In England they are already indoctrinating the children. They show these animations to school children. It is really silly to us but not to elementary students. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=P7rCAYkoMT0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP7rCAYkoMT0
Jim Walker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:16 p.m.
The potential to extend the bike path through Bandemer with a connector to Huron River Drive and a legal crossing of the RXR for bicycles to get to a safe place to join Main Street traffic is WAY too logical for the city to consider. Expensively disrupting a critical commuting corridor that handles 27,000 cars a day makes a lot more sense to the city. When Jackson Avenue grinds to a gridlock halt next year, if indeed the city and MDOT are foolish enough to go ahead with that project, the problems may convince enough people to object to these car-hater schemes to bring logic back into play. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:19 p.m.
Please see my post below! Even though you're with the majority guess what? We lose! The train! The train!
Ruth
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:29 p.m.
I travel on several reduced lane roads and they work exceedingly well with better traffic flow because it eliminates left turns from a thru lane that ties up traffic and causes weaving in and out. The dedicated bike lanes are also an added plus.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:26 p.m.
What reduced lane roads are you talking about and are they major arteries?
Jon Saalberg
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:20 p.m.
I love biking, but reducing North Main to one vehicle lane in each direction? Really? Imagine how football Saturdays will go, with all those rabid football fans stuck in tremendously long traffic jams that back up onto the notorious M-14 bridge - sure to add to that bridge's long litany of crash incidents.
Thaddeus
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:02 a.m.
That is not what is proposed Jon. There would still be two lanes as well as a bike lane going out to M-14 after football games (more carrying capacity than now). The proposed change is different than other 4-3 lane conversions that have been done around town. Traffice volumes on North Main are currently too high to do the same kind of "road diet".
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:32 p.m.
The football crowd can take the train like the rest of us!
BlueEyesGirl
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:15 p.m.
Let's fix the horrible roads first before we start playing with other roads!
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:28 p.m.
Dear BlueEyesGirl, the roads will be allowed to deteriorate beyond repair to accommodate the mass transit agenda. Then MDOT will have another study to support this and then...
originalA2guy
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:01 p.m.
This is fantastic.....this will give the bike riders great access to M-14....maybe MDOT will then reduce it to 3 lanes (in each direction) and add bike lanes there also, so we can bicycle commute easier to Plymouth, Livonia and other points east..........
MRunner73
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:09 p.m.
Yes, I am anticipating lane reductions on I 94 through Washtenaw County, lower the speed limit, add bike paths and pedestrian cross islands. Let's not forget US 23.
Anthony
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6 p.m.
As usual, we can see the supposedly "liberal" Ann Arborites that really don't care about much besides driving to and from their drone jobs as fast as possible. If you don't like it here, please, be my guest and leave. The suburbs will welcome your cars-uber-alles mentality, I promise. If you choose to stay, remember, you live in a college town, where pedestrians and bikers typically outnumber motorists 2 to 1 in most areas downtown. People move here because its NOT another suburb. People LIKE to bike and walk.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:30 p.m.
No problem with biking and walking-- that's how it's been in Ann Arbor pretty much since I can remember but when did Ann Arbor become the anti-car czar? That when the discord started!
ordmad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:56 p.m.
Instead of weighing in here where it matters little (and all the facts and considerations aren't fully fleshed out), how about getting involved in an ongoing CITIZEN based planning process that's working on the North Main issues and many others: http://www.a2gov.org/government/communityservices/planninganddevelopment/planning/Pages/NorthMainHuronRiverCorridorProject.aspx
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:16 p.m.
This wouldn't open for me. Can you please post this in its complete address. Thank you!
Westfringe
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:02 p.m.
Lets see, roads nearly un-drivable do to potholes, increasing traffic, stupid signal system, and the road commission asking for a millage. Sounds like a great time to spend MORE money for an infinitesimal amount of bikers on one of the busiest roads in the city. What world do these people live in?
Tom
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:53 p.m.
If this were a southern climate city without snow and ice, maybe. But to even consider this as viable option requires one to think that perhaps a horse path would be more appropriate. I am 45 years old and there is no way I'm riding a bike to work and I am a marathon runner.
Michael
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:51 p.m.
I'm very surprised by the comments I see in the discussion boards. You would think that in a city like Ann Arbor that more people would be supportive of right-sizing roadways. Are not many of you actually from this area? Maybe you're only commuters and take your money out of the city. So, of course, you're only going to be concerned with getting from here-to-there with your car. Unfortunately, this is not the way the world should work and the Ann Arbor government and its citizens feel the same way. The car is not king! It does not have to be accommodated everywhere! So many people want every accommodation made for their automobiles, it's ridiculous! Roadways are a privilege! Driving is a privilege! It is not a right! Roadways should be designed with every mode of transportation considered in its construction! To all car-owners: SLOW THE H*** DOWN! There's nowhere you need to go that requires you to speed through the city and expect everybody to get out of your way!
Scott Reed
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:28 p.m.
Agreed. People who live in the asteroid belt are a drain on the city's resources. By living so far from the core, they make providing city services much more expensive. I think they should face a much higher tax burden for this reason, especially to pay for the extensive road networks that their suburbs require.
Paul Wiener
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:47 p.m.
Generally speaking, unless a city is designed from scratch to accommodate them, bike lanes are a blight on humanity and represent the worst kind of blind pandering to clueless and selfish idealists.
P. J. Murphy
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 2:15 p.m.
Interesting perspective. Of course Ann Arbor was originally laid out not for bikes, or cars but for horses and pedestrians. So to carry your thought out to it's logical conclusion let's return our city to what it's founders, in their wisdom, intended. We could become a southern version of Mackinac Island. Minus the bikes of course.
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:18 p.m.
I could not have said it better Paul!
Radlib2
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:42 p.m.
Cars are a blight on the world!
Scott Reed
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:46 p.m.
This is an AWESOME idea! Reducing to three lanes will dramatically improve the experience for pedestrians, and I'd bet that it will also *reduce* traffic by dispersing it over a greater variety of routes. This could also allow for expanding sidewalks, which would also really improve main street.
Scott Reed
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:43 p.m.
It will be an improvement not just for passing pedestrians and cyclists, but people who actually LIVE in that area, who will have one less lane of traffic cutting through their neighborhood. Better too for drivers, because building more roads only yields more sprawl and creates demand for new roads, creating more traffic. Reducing lanes has the opposite effect.
MRunner73
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:06 p.m.
Surely, you jest??
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:26 p.m.
So we will not only improve it for the 47 cyclists, we'll also improve it for the 9 pedestrians? Where do we sign up?
LXIX
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:45 p.m.
@Tom Joad You are correct - the world is running out of oil. Go Tesla go. Seriously, the hybrides and electrics are leading new auto sales. If nothing changed, world proved reserves [energy sources estimated from geologic and engineering data, to be recoverable] will only last another 45 years [CIA World Factbook]. Absolutely no auto, truck, motorcycle, bus, ship, boat, snowmobile, tractor, chain saw, power by diesel/gasoline. No mineral oils, drug ointments. Zero plastic containers, bags, toys, sheets, synthetic clothes, electronic parts, or any plastic derived product. No air travel (except balloons and kites). 'Peak Oil' is a well understood phenomenon where well production drops quickly after the midpoint of reserve extraction is reached - the 'peak'. Whether that has occured (1973 or 2005) or not doesn't matter much to the DoD. 45 years of oil based national defense left (jets, tanks, ships) is not good so change will probably have to happen elsewhere. Unless you name ends with Koch.
easy123
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:44 p.m.
North Main is a race track with the crazy A2 drivers. It was a mistake to change the speed limit to 45. Now, the A2 residents are doing at least 50 mph, and I have see some folks to over 55 mph. I would not dare ride along with these nuts. I think the better method is to expand the bike route to allow for a better commute and cross main st in some resonable fashion. I don't even see the speed cops on main or maple anymore
Jim Walker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.
The 85th percentile speed before and after the change was 47 mph. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:42 p.m.
This is what you get when you have a one-party system of government and all the power lies with the power-brokers within that party who determine who wins the primaries. Corrupt and out of touch. Hopefully, the MDOT will realize that this reversible lane approach is quite dangerous without the technology to implement safe barriers. I keep hearing how the bicyclists will appear when bike lanes are added, but it still seems there are more than 100 cars for every one bicycle on the roads. Yet they want "equality" on the roads. That would be fine if they paid for it. But no dedicated cyclist wants to pay the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands (given the small number who do it) his choice of transportation actually costs the city.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:38 p.m.
Hey, out of touch is not the case! Corrupt and manipulative but not out of touch!
MRunner73
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:29 p.m.
What is with this city on reducing lane to major arteries than connect to freeways? This would be a very bad idea. North Main needs to be maintained at 4 lanes. There is room for bike lanes. Adding cross walks all over is another bad idea. Not sure if Jackson Road from 7th St to W Stadium has been resolved since a lane reduction has been proposed, there. The city officials are into calming traffic by reducing lanes, adding roundabouts and pedestian cross walks which is really amazing.
rkb0929
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:28 p.m.
I live off Packard/Independence. Travel Packard ALL THE TIME! The silly change they made to it from Stadium Blvd for a few blocks only, down to about Independence, was a total waste of money! I rarely see a bicyclist in that area...certainly not any more than there were before the big change. Stop making 4 lane roads into 3 lane roads, it's an absolutely ridiculous waste of money. And don't decide to put a round-about out there either, enough with those already too!
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:51 p.m.
@rkb0929...certainly seems as if you have a better perception of things than PJmurphy. I travel this road often and rarely see any bicyclists. It is totally absurd that we have spent so much and made so many changes for so few.
P. J. Murphy
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:07 p.m.
Well, I live right off Packard where the conversion exists and it's made a dramatic improvement for everyone at virtually no cost to motorized users of the road. It's much safer for crossing, and the volume of cyclists continues to increase every year. They are anything but rare, these days I see some every time I use the road.
MRunner73
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:31 p.m.
Not to mention pedestrian cross walks that are only one to two blocks from a traffic light.
GratefulReb
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:42 p.m.
Fix the Roads you are responsible for first MDOT. A2's roads are embarrassing. I am will to pay more taxes to get this done. Please.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:34 p.m.
For any of you readers not up to speed on the problems with making a four lane highway one lane in each direction (even if only half the day) the following column I wrote gives a good overview of the problems with the Jackson Road road diet which is planned for 2014: www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/ann-arbor-finally-putting-money-into-its-neglected-roads-but-executing-plans-that-are-flawed/ Making busy major roads three lanes instead of four is a really awful idea for the following reasons: 1) AATA buses will now block traffic when they stop. 2) Garbage trucks will now block traffic when they stop. 3) The road could be widened. 4) Traffic surges at rush hour will cause even worse back-ups. 5) It will be a lot harder to turn onto or off N. Main St. from a side street. 6) Some of the other higher traffic roads already converted to three lanes from four in Ann Arbor are failed "experiments". Should we inconvenience 27,000 cars a day on N. Main St. just to help the few bicyclists who use the road instead of a sidewalk or the excellent Bandemer Trail? Shouldn't we spend the money on making an easy connection for bicyclists from N. Main St. to the existing excellent and scenic trail along the Huron River both near the Argo Dam at Depot St. and by W. Huron River Drive? As a avid bicyclist I want to see those connections built (a path under the railroad?). As a motorist I don't want fewer lanes on major arteries into and out of town.
Thaddeus
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:25 p.m.
JimmyD - Since when do school buses NOT stop traffic? This is why buses have flashing lights as well as stop signs and stop bars that come out to stop traffic. If this brief twice a day occurance (1/2 the year) is ever such a problem to do something about, in many cases the school bus perhaps could make the pick-up/drop-off while on a side-street.... Mail delivery is a typically not more than a once a day occurance. This is normally done at off-peak hours....
JimmyD
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:36 p.m.
7) Mail Delivery will stop traffic; 8) School buses will stop traffic;
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
Now how are we going to get that train! That is the purpose of fewer lanes on major arteries into and out of town. We'll talk bike lanes to confuse people and then we can...
Steve Bean
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:26 p.m.
Brad, thanks for the link. Will do.
DonBee
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:56 p.m.
Mr Beam Your 1/2 is contra indicated by your 5
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:28 p.m.
@ Steve Bean: In the configuration proposed there would be three traffic lanes and no turning lane! With 27,000 cars per day it is almost twice the Maximum allowed amount for a two lane road with one lane in each direction
MRunner73
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:35 p.m.
Steve Bean- North Main should be 5 lanes plus bike lanes on each side. The civil engineers in this city just don't get it. Not sure what century they live in (19th or early 20th).
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:16 p.m.
Good luck SLR in convincing the bike lobby and proponents of the NMTP of anything that makes sense and involves rational thinking. All they care about are bike lanes on every road and vehicular traffic be damned. They could care less about the volume on these lanes. As long as one bike rider is satisfied that is all it takes.
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:15 p.m.
Steve - What you are proposing in #5 is both illegal and annoying. Please stop. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/traffic_talk_can_drivers_use_t.html
Steve Bean
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:46 p.m.
Stephen, 1/2. the middle (left-turn) lane in a three-lane configuration allows vehicles to pass stopped buses and collection vehicles. 3. What do you mean? I don't believe there's space to widen either Jackson or N. Main. 4. That might be. Have you checked with MDOT or any other data source to confirm that that has been the case with recent road diet implementations? 5. Turning into the middle lane can potentially be easier. That's mainly based on personal experience, but it also makes sense. 6. How so? Have accident rates increased?
demistify
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:30 p.m.
Interesting concept, reversible lanes. At 5 PM, Main Street becomes outbound and those working downtown head North out of the city. We then shut down Main Street for the night. Those who drive do not deserve to shop or eat there.
whojix
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:27 p.m.
Just last week we had such high population density that we needed to build a monorail, now we need to shrink our roads? Huh?
DonBee
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.
whojix - How else do you force people on those connectors? You have to make it impossible to get downtown by any other means.
Scott Reed
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:50 p.m.
That is not contradictory. If you have a high population density, you should not build four-lane roads cutting through the core of your city - you should encourage walking, biking and public transit, which is far more space-efficient and safer.
Larry Baird
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:11 p.m.
The Bandemer Park connector to W. Huron River Drive is one of the last remaining linkages of the border-to-border trail through town and would provide bikers, joggers and walkers safe passage through this area. This vital linkage (trail improvement) has been on the Parks - PROS plan for far too long and keeps getting pushed back in favor of other parks projects. Why spend millions of dollars on new parkland (Camp Hilltop, Bluffs) and not provide a reasonably safe connection to the B2B trail?
Larry Baird
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:23 p.m.
I believe the cost is the biggest factor (having to tunnel under the tracks), more than the $900K allocated now. Also, I believe MDOT is taking over track ownership from Northfolk Southern, so if they are willing to consider changes to N. Main, it seems reasonable they should be open to work around the tracks as well.
Bob Needham
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:05 p.m.
I believe this project (which would be great, and, together with some kind of Main Street crossing at the south end of Argo Pond, would pretty much eliminate the need for North Main bike lanes) has always run into a roadblock with the ownership of the railroad tracks. Anyone know different? And is there any hope for change as Amtrak takes over responsibility?
Ryan J. Stanton
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:06 p.m.
I'm told the last traffic count MDOT did on North Main was in May 2010. MDOT takes those counts and averages/normalizes them to the evaluation year. Here are the count maps for 2011: https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-9622_11033_11149---,00.html It looks like there are about 27,000 vehicles a day traveling along North Main. I recall city officials saying during the discussion around Jackson Avenue that it makes a lot of sense to do a 4-to-3 lane conversion when average daily traffic is less than 15,000 vehicles, while roadway segments with daily traffic between 15,000 and 20,000 vehicles also might be good candidates, but those need more detailed traffic analyses. Of course, 27,000 is beyond that limit. This is why Cooper stated in the Q&A: "Unfortunately the traffic volume and pattern won't support the same type of road diet that we've implemented in 10 other places in the city." But a reversible managed lane system is a slightly different animal. Should be a good discussion around this.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:20 p.m.
What if MDOT isn't trusted?
thinker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 7:05 p.m.
I repeat my question: at rush hour, which lane becomes reversible? the inbound or outbound?
justcurious
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:39 p.m.
This is unbelievable. First Jackson Road and now this. What are they thinking? Or are they? "Calm" the major artery into the city? Make it so bad that no one will want to live here unless they have a bike or walk? Why not just build a large tall wall around the city and parking lots where there were going to be green spaces. Would that make them happy?
DonBee
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:53 p.m.
Too many people want to work downtown, so making it impossible to get downtown will move those carpet bagging workers back out to the 'burbs where they belong or they can move into the Mayor'plexs that will be built downtown. After all we need to fill all the buildings that the DDA wants built downtown.
Larry Baird
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:31 p.m.
The North Main Task Force has formed a subcommittee titled, "Main Street Right of Way". If you are concerned about possible changes, I would suggest attending their next meeting - see dates below (note these dates could change, so check the city website prior to attending). NORTH MAIN VISION TASK FORCE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING DATES & LOCATIONS Main Street Right of Way .......... Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 4:00-6:00, City Hall, Larcom 2nd Floor, Council Workroom Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 4:00-5:00, City Hall, Larcom Basement Conference Rooms A-B
DJBudSonic
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.
Great I will just ask if I can get of work two hours early to attend a subcommittee planning meeting no problem! Wish I could, but one cannot attend them all. I encourage others to attend, and thanks for posting these times.
justcurious
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:40 p.m.
No one should have to attend any meeting that proposes such a thing. It should have never been proposed.
grye
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:39 p.m.
Sorry Tom Joad but this is a dumb idea. We are not running out of oil. And there will be some other form of fuel for cars of the future. There are not enough not nor will there be enough bicyclists in the next 100 years to require a bicycle dominiate road system for the city. This is wasteful spending.
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
@grye, you may as well talk to a wall. TJ only has bicycle on the brain.
Peter Eckstein
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:26 p.m.
Stop the insanity!
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:28 p.m.
Or at least vote it out. Then we no longer care if they're insane or not.
Ken
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.
Reversible lanes, what a setup for deadly, head-on collisions. You have to be crazy to ride a bike on N. Main St. near M-14.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
No, there will be fatalities
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:22 p.m.
but: there will fewer motorists
Griffin
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:01 p.m.
This could work... But can we please repave the roads that make me feel like my car is going to disintegrate first? JACKSON, maybe?
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
Sorry, they're letting Jackson Road and other roads deteriorate past the point of repair so that they can push the mass transit! Isn't it obvious?
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:01 p.m.
Why not use the trail through Bandemer Park, and then the city construct a connecter pathway from it to Huron River Drive. This provides a very nice bike path for bicyclists and keeps them separated from traffic that travels 45 to 50 MPH. It would be a fun, pleasant bike route, similar to the one from Fuller Park to Gallup. Families could use it. Who really wants to ride a bike down main street next to speeding traffic when they can go along a scenic river? If this route were to take an extra minute, no one is using this route for a commute, it only goes to Huron River Drive, a mostly pleasure drive. Eli Cooper's change will slow down thousands over a day as some people decide to go 30 instead of the posted 45, or makes a right turn, talk on their cell phone...
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:43 p.m.
Why should Mr. Cooper care? Just as long as he gets his choo choo!
iamwrite
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:57 p.m.
When bicycles are registered with fees going toward these road improvements, I might care. If the roads are going on diets, Ann Arbor property taxes should as well.
Tom Joad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:44 p.m.
Main Street is a two lane road downtown. Leaving town via N. Main to M-14 is four lanes but to merge onto M-14 requires you to be in the far right lane. Those drivers who know this are poised to mergeonto the M-14 entrance. Those in the left lane must depend on the drivers in theright lane to graciously let them in, even after they passed an entire queue of cars that were in the right lane to begin with (and at a greatly higher speed). In contrast, exiting M-14 does indeed put you into a choice of two lanes, up to Miller, but with a speed limit of 45 the closure rate is 90 mph, and the potential for a head-on collison is real, as the road is narrow. Why not set up those drivers who are already going downtown into a single lane well in advance because they are going to be single-laned anyway downtown. Having 4 lanes to or from downtown doesn't make the traffic flow any faster as clearly illustrated and explained from above. I see no reason for a three-lane plan, please see above once again. Having bike lanes makes the northern part of town much more accessible to cyclists who would surely utilize those lanes if they are provided, and even installing a physical barrier in the center would make N. Main more like a parkway instead of an extension to the freeway. If you thinkcarefully about the benefits of a single lane each way it becomes apparent at the sensibility of it. The current structure is both unsafe for drivers and cyclists when you study the matter calmly.
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:30 p.m.
Surely you are kidding to make the assumption that bicyclists will use this road. Bicycle ridership has not increased on any of the major arterials that have been realigned. Why argue, you and your bike lobby already have everyone by the short hairs.
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:08 p.m.
A single lane is much slower at traffic lights as each car must start and the next must wait for a proper distance before it proceeds. I've seem some progressive cities solve this by having tow lanes of traffic expand to three at lights and then contract back to two again. A single lane would mean long delays at traffic lights, with many people missing them where they would not if there are two lanes.
Jon Wax
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:41 p.m.
No mention of it, but if it means the speed limit goes back down to 35, then I vote yes about 16 million times. Peace Wax
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 8:10 p.m.
easy123 Which block are you talking about takes 1 min?
easy123
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:54 p.m.
James Walker- the speeds around A2 have gone up dramatically after the bump up. If there is no dramatic effect to the lower spped limit, why not leave them at the lower speeds. It takes less than a minute to traverse North main - so what is the hurry in saving 5 sec.
Jim Walker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:26 p.m.
Since posted speed limits have virtually no effect on actual travel speeds, particularly at the upper end of the range, I have never heard a coherent argument on why painting lower numbers on the signs which do NOT change travel speeds makes things safer. It doesn't. James C. Walker, National Motorists Association, Ann Arbor
Arboriginal
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:14 p.m.
I agree 16 million times!
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:40 p.m.
People you need to realize no amount of complaining or rational thought will reverse the lane realignment process the city has undertaken. It all goes back to the Non Motorized Transportation Plan which was quietly passed under the radar a few years back. The bike lobby was very adept at getting this passed. All one needs to do is frequently travel the roads which have already undergone this transformation to realize it is absolutely ridiculous. Build it and they will come does not work here. The massive increase of bicycle ridership along these routes has not materialized. There are always traffic counts to justify road repair, lights, width, etc. Why are there not any bicycle counts? Simple, the ridership does not justify any changes and the powers that be keep their eyes shut to it. As a result the roads should be transformed back to the original pattern. Unfortunately the city will not do this even though they say it is possible. I would be the first in line beating the drum to stop this insanity if I thought it possible. Because of the NMTP we as a community are now paying for not being acutely aware of the impact a very small special interest group can have on the community as a whole.
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:39 p.m.
There aren't many bike riders utilizing the bike lanes but the city continues to add more, and more, and more bike lanes at the expense of drivers. Why is that? It is for the future. A future when people will be forced to live in the city and walk (reason for mid block crosswalks), ride bikes or take the public transportation. There is a coordinated agenda and it is happening across many US cities. It does not make sense to most people unless you know the agenda. Why do you think the expansion in public transportation is being pushed so hard when there isn't a need for it and the cost is astronomical. The green belt is also a part of this program. It all makes sense if you know what the UN Agenda 21 is. What is happening in AA is exactly what is outlined in the UN Adenda 21. Google, "Agenda 21."
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:42 p.m.
The Jackson Road diet is a part of the plan for the new train station. I don't think it's right either!
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:33 p.m.
@Sam What about Jackson road diet? There will be more diets or obstacles for drivers.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 9:18 p.m.
Dear G.Orwell, this is my second post on this to you regarding agenda, but the true agenda is for the new train station. Nothing nobel. Most U of M employees use N. Main coming from 14 and Jackson Road coming from 94.
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:31 p.m.
@Scott First, I am glad you are acknowledging Agenda 21 is real. Most people deny it without researching. Second, "What is bad about that?" People will be forced to move to cities whether people like it or not and live in high rises. Property right will no longer exist and food, medicine, energy and other essentials will be rationed. While people like Al Gore and his bosses will continue to live in mansions and fly around in private jets and be driven around in limousines. You will be treated like cattle. That is what Agenda 21 calls for. They will accomplish this through indoctrination of children. This is not in the best interest of the 99% of the people. Why do you think so many states, counties and cities are opposing it?
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:18 p.m.
LXIX As early as last year people denied it existed because it is not in the interest of the average person. Now that it is being exposed, people on the left are supporting it. Even though it works against them. Agenda 21 is a control mechanism for the 1% of the 99%.
LXIX
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:14 p.m.
ICLEI member cities in support of sustainability UN Agenda 21 number about 260 including Ann Arbor. Agenda 21 has been around a long time and in the last decade has met with growing resistance from nationalists, conservatives (Mostly republicans), and associates of the Tea Party (which is supported in part by the Koch oil empire). Planning ahead for sustainable human survival voids those customary knee-jerk free market decisions. That in turn negatively impacts profiteers used to having the future all to themselves.
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 6:06 p.m.
@Scott First, I am glad you are acknowledging Agenda 21 is real. Most people deny it without researching. Second, "What is bad about that?" People will be forced to move to cities whether people like it or not and live in high rises. Property right will no longer exist and food, medicine, energy and other essentials will be rationed. While people like Al Gore and his bosses will continue to live in mansions and fly around in private jets and be driven around in limousines. You will be treated like cattle. That is what Agenda 21 calls for. They will accomplish this through indoctrination of children. This is not in the best interest of the 99% of the people. Why do you think so many states, counties and cities are opposing it?
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:24 p.m.
@Scott First, I am glad you are acknowledging Agenda 21 is real. Most people deny it without researching. Second, "What is bad about that?" People will be forced to move to cities whether people like it or not and live in high rises. Property right will no longer exist and food, medicine, energy and other essentials will be rationed. While people like Al Gore and his bosses will continue to live in mansions and fly around in private jets and be driven around in limousines. You will be treated like cattle. That is what Agenda 21 calls for. They will accomplish this through indoctrination of children. This is not in the best interest of the 99% of the people. Why do you think so many states, counties and cities are opposing it?
snark12
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:57 p.m.
I think we should be honored to have Glenn Beck commenting here on our little local web site!
Scott Reed
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:57 p.m.
What is bad about that? It would be great if people could live in a dense, walkable, mixed-use place. Has it occured to you that many people WANT to live near where they work, eat and shop? Near where their kids go to school? That the idea of living in a car-dominated sprawling suburban blight is not appealing to them? This is hardly some conspiracy; people are just becoming sick and tired of the suburban sprawl lifestyle.
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.
Before the uninformed say I am a tinfoil wearing conspiracy nut, do your own research and read the legislation being passed by numerous states, counties, and cities opposing Agenda 21. Residents of AA are uninformed because Agenda 21 is mainly being pushed by Democrats and progressives to fool their base. Agenda 21 is closely tied to Al Gore's man-made global warming and sustainability. http://www.wpaag.org/Agenda%2021-States%20with%20resolutions%20opposing%20Agenda%2021.htm
mabb
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:38 p.m.
Are you kidding!!!!! Have these experts ever been in the morning rush in that corridor? Perhaps it looks good on paper but in theory it stinks
Frustrated in A2
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 2:59 a.m.
I would say no to them driving anywhere during rush hour. I have seen the mayor riding his bike to city hall. I'm sure that's why he wants to convert every road in town down to one lane and put bike lanes everywhere.
a2roots
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:43 p.m.
So a2cents you must be like one of the 10 riders in Ann Arbor. If you are fool enough to ride that road so be it. Anyone of intelligence can cross the city on a bike without using a major arterial.
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.
Think it's bad in a car? Try it on a bicycle. Hush
Vince Caruso
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
Support this strongly as Jackson Ave. proposed changes. As MDOT, the City officials, County Road Commission, road consultants and residents where these changes have happened - 'This will change your neighborhood and roadway much to the better as is clearly the result thus far'. 'Traffic flow will not be reduced but dangerous accidents will be greatly reduced'. These are gateways to our city and look awful, pedestrian and bike unfriendly, and dangerous to drive. Whats to like? I hope we continue working toward the Green Streets efforts in other parts of the city. Runoff from our streets is the most polluting source in urban areas seriously affecting the Huron River and Lake Erie. Porous pavements are being used all across the country on parking lots and roads to great effect and saving money. BTW how can you have 256 votes by 8am when posted at 6am (vastly in opposition)? Robot voting?
pegret
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:25 p.m.
Zombies, Vince.
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:23 p.m.
Brilliant! If there are more against your idea than for it it must be rigged!
BHarding
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
Many read the news with their coffee at 7:00 a.m. There are no robots voting.
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:04 p.m.
Changing the lane count isn't going to do much for how it looks, will it? Sure, it must be robot voting. It couldn't be that "road diets" are a totally knuckleheaded idea that only a small minority are interested in.
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
Since the czars in city hall do not want the city to be accessed easily, lets just shut down the building dept. That will do a better job of achieving zero growth. What a bunch of numbskulls that are trying to impose their own personal ideological bias's on all of us. Don't think so? Put it to a VOTE! If the idea of switching to 2 lanes passes I will never say another word about it.
FrankOZ
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:33 p.m.
I like ice cream, so when I'm mayor, I'm going to put an ice cream shop on every corner. I'm not usually a fan of Ranzini, but ditto to his comments. This is a bad idea on so many levels. I'm so angry about this, that I'm just going to stop here before I say something that will get me deleted.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:54 p.m.
@DJBudSonic: I am very sorry I didn't get your email! Could you please resend it?
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.
Ice cream shop nothing. I want dedicated lanes between my house and the Dairy Queen.
DJBudSonic
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:54 p.m.
@ranzini How about answering emails? I wrote you two weeks ago...then we can agree on more things.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:41 p.m.
@FrankOZ: Thanks! Hopefully we can agree on many more things in the future.
Tom Joad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:13 p.m.
Cyclists are allowed to ride on any street in Ann Arbor, whether it's prudent or safe to do is another matter, hence the need for demarcated bike lanes. How many times have you rode your bike on a street only to be honked at or squeezed out by a motorist in hurry? Sure there is a bike/pedestrian path along the river on that side of town, but accessing it is out-of-the way and not exactly well marked on how to access it from Main St. Many people trespass over the railroad tracks to reach it instead of going a 1/4 mile down the road to reach the entrance from North Main. Bicycles and cyclists have a legal right to North Main, and if provided with a safer bike lane the use would increase greatly. That many cyclists don't ride North Main to reach Huron River Dr now is the reason for the bike lane. It's extremely dangerous to share that fast paced road with cars. The three lanes should be two lanes toward M-14. That way motorists won't have to fumble to merge to the single lane that brings them on to M-14. One or two lanes leading into town from M-14 should be sufficient. Again, motorists are FORCED to merge into a single lane before Miller anyway. It's called traffic calming for a reason. If you build it into the road infrastructure, drivers will adapt and it will be much safer for all concerned, particularly vulnerable cyclists.
Ann English
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:52 a.m.
Instead of merging into a single lane just north of Miller, I've taken to going onto Felch or Kingsley to use First Street, all the way to Mosley, to avoid bumper-to-bumper traffic on Main. South of Mosley, Main Street traffic thins out again.
mike gatti
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:09 p.m.
Please just be careful with this lane reducing mania. It seems to be the traffic reform of the day. Stadium between Pauline and Seventh really stinks at rush hour. The traffic shift is odd and the backups are lousy and turning in and out of the Neighborhood there is really tough because the lights must be timed where one way is green and the other red because when traffic clears one way it comes from the other. Other then that is seems great.
Indymama
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:44 p.m.
Mike, You are wrong,,,this change stinks ALL THE TIME!!!...Never a day goes by when going either direction does someone in the lane that will be eliminated (the narrowing-ending lane) speed up over the speed limit to get ahead of all the dozen or so cars in the continuing lane, causing dangerous traffic situations. And I 'm not talking about trying to get ahead of "slow" drivers. The speeders are the impatient drivers who are speeding anyway and don't want to "fall into a reasonable" merge. In my opinion that stretch of Stadium is now far more dangerous than it ever was.
hawkhulk
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:08 p.m.
This is madness. It is already difficult for traffic to move into and out of Ann Arbor during the rush hour especially downtown and they want to do this. This will only make it more difficult for businesses and customers to do business in Ann Arbor. Add the Jackson road project and it will only get worse. The lack of insight by the city leadership amazes me but even worse it the aiding and abetting by the state through MDOT who has sanctioned this upcoming fiasco.
DonBee
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:05 p.m.
M-14 is already a mess in the morning with the US-23/M-14 merge/de-merge and then everyone trying to get to the right hand lane to get off at North Main. How many more accidents (and deaths) does the City Council want? The whole M-14 - Huron River bridge is already a huge mess, reducing North Main's flow of traffic off of the bridge will add massive backups on M-14 and probably increase the number of accident runs the various fire and police departments have to support. This belongs in a Jeff Daniel's movie "Dumb, Dumber, and the City Council"
Ann English
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:43 a.m.
There were nighttime accidents this past winter on both northbound and southbound M-14 at the Huron River bridge. If southbound M-14 traffic is backed up because of 1 fewer lane on southbound Main, the ramp will become filled up; right now it's two lanes wide. I can see the unintended consequence of increased difficulty getting onto westbound M-14 from Whitmore Lake Road. Traffic already on it will be closer together, right where those of us trying to get on from Whitmore Lake Road enter it.
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.
jon... agree, eliminate f'ball
Jon Wax
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:44 p.m.
imagine how it will be on a football satuday... with folks from out of state... who have been here before and suddenly the whole road is a parking lot of folks who aren't exactly sure what's going on or why there are only 2.5 lanes when last time there were 4. but the worst part is the noise... a 10 mph shift in speed from 35 to 45 makes it really kinda suck to hang out outside. Peace Wax
zip the cat
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:02 p.m.
All you whiners and complainers of the lack of city leaders doing there jobs are the ones to blame . You have a chance to run them out of office every election,but you choose to sit home and do nothing. You asked for it so now enjoy it. Wa Wa Wa
Jay Thomas
Wed, Mar 13, 2013 : 12:26 a.m.
No, sorry my feline friend. With fifty bazillion UofM students here that is unlikely to happen.
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:15 p.m.
zip You forgot to mention you do not live in Ann Arbor!
LXIX
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:46 p.m.
@zip the cat Lol. Nice try. For those who realy want a little change to believe in - bring the big bills. To rectify leadership (once upon a time called yur representatives) through replacement A. You have to belong to one of two polictical machines. In Ann Arbor they are both Democrat. The parties have a tendency to only support status quo candidates under predetermined platforms. The newbie candidate vision is of little importance in the larger party hierarchy. B. You have to be independently wealthy or sell your soul to special interest groups enriching the party. C. If you have made it this far, you then have to inspire the majority electorate. Basically be a well-oiled politician and communicate effectively out of both sides of your mouth at the same time. A forked tongue comes in very handy for the job. Must be able to smile while articulately convoluting the audience's language (lie) and honestly feel good about pulling another clever one over the sheeple present. D. Once you have gained name recognition and have not been told to take an early dive by the party, you swear allegiance to your shadow business network (real estate and transportation are popular ones in this town) and after bowing over and kissing their rings the oligarchs will then signal to respective party comrades the start of horse trading over your ballot box numbers for election day. E. Once elected if you make the mistake of stepping out of line there will be an elaborate "sting" operation or "accident" set up to set you straight or evict you from office before any real damage is done. Applause now for the paws "Wa Wa Wa".
Sue
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:48 a.m.
I was so astounded when I read this that I could not type at first. Thankfully, the many who commented for me do it SO well that I can relax. However, I believe that NO one who has a finger in this issue will read these comments nor count them as valid. STOP the madness, fix the roads and leave the lanes alone!!!
Ann English
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 12:32 a.m.
Fix Stone School Road between Eisenhower and Ellsworth! I think that Thinker above is saying that lots of people commute OUT of Ann Arbor going north on Main Street to work, and use southbound Main Street going home. The article assumes that Cooper only thinks of many people coming INTO Ann Arbor to work, and going north on Main Street to go home. There's too much for him to know about motorists coming and going. Let the free market determine the demands on road maintenance and use.
LXIX
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:41 a.m.
Here's another list of "city diets" to consider. 0. DDA (long gone) 1. Eli Coooper 2. Mayor Hieftje 3. Margie Teall 4. Choice of at least two more on City COuncil 5. Planning Commission 6. Art Commission 7. Environmental Commission (Ecology Center)
Martha Cojelona Gratis
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:36 a.m.
This idea would work if people in this city knew how to drive. Really, it would. Whoever thinks this is a good idea must be the type of person who drives 25mph down Packard. If you are going to reduce this city to two (or three) lane roads, then can I at least see some broken yellow lines to allow us who travel through this city to actually get to places on time the right to pass on the left.
thinker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:34 a.m.
North Main is a parking lot at peak times and you want to REDUCE the number of lanes? Maintain our streets!
Indymama
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:27 p.m.
At peak times?? I think you mean at MOST times....maybe a little easing between 2:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m....otherwise Main street is busy, busy, busy! I think it is time we replaced the City Planners who keep pushing this insanity!! They approve more and more High density high rises, to get more people downtown, yet they want to close off the ingress and egress accesses to downtown...Are we being imprisoned in our own homes??? :)
thinker
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:58 p.m.
I believe at rush hour, morning and evening, there is heavy outbound and inbound traffic. Which way will the city then "direct and engineer" our traffic?
PhillyCheeseSteak
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:52 p.m.
According to the article, there would still be 2 lanes at peak times - the 2 lanes, into or out of the city, reverse direction depending on either morning or afternoon commute.
RUKiddingMe
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:15 a.m.
I am just completely astounded, disgusted, and enraged. Wit the state of the roads as they are in this town, that these people can look at each other and seriously bring up these outlandish projects is absolutely ridiculous. I understand that you wouldn't want to fix a road and then re-do it (although they can't seem to get their fill of that with Geddes past Huron Parkway, or Fuller in front of the hospital), but why are they spending time on these expensive projects that are so complex and don't adress any real easily verifiable need? It's like a bunch of people fumbling around in a dark room, and instead of yelling things out to try and coordinate finding a lightswitch, they're fumbling around yelling "what's this?! can we spend money on this? I'm touching something, is this something we can spend money on? Money!! Spend money!!! I can't see, can we spend money on that? What's this in my pocket, can we spend money on that?" ...that's a pretty convoluted comparison, but I couldn't readily come up with anything so ridiculous as these idiots.
Real Life
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11 a.m.
Once again, thousands of motorists are being asked to accommodate dozens of bicyclists. Stop the madness!
jcj
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:10 p.m.
Radlib2 Blind? There are not thousands, just dozens of self centered, wobbly, careless, dangerous ones!
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:12 p.m.
AABikes, I agree, So why not use the trail through Bandemer Park, and then push to have the city construct a connecter pathway from it to Huron River Drive. This provides a very nice bike path for bicyclists and keeps them separated from traffic that travels 45 to 50 MPH. It would be a fun, pleasant bike route, similar to the one from Fuller Park to Gallup. Families could use it.
Brad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 1:12 p.m.
"I'm not going to say that there are as many cyclists as drivers." That's good, because I'd hate to spit out this mouthful of coffee laughing.
aabikes
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:59 p.m.
I'm not going to say that there are as many cyclists as drivers. But I think there are probably more than you perceive. A cyclist can only go so fast, regardless of speed limit. So generally when there is an option, we'll take a safer back street. You won't see us next to your car on a 45mph thoroughfare in this common case. The problem arises when there is no safe alternative and we are forced to share the same "high" speed road.
Bcar
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.
radlib, how many cars travel north main each day, and how many riders??
Radlib2
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.
There are thousands of bikers in the city. Are you blind? We've given almost everything--every consideration and transportation dollar--over the last 70 years to cars. Stop the madness! How about stop being lazy and try out some of these routes.
Bcar
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:53 a.m.
Yet another bonehead move by our band of idiot leaders... I ride my bike all the time, we don't need a bike lane that goes nowhere! There is the barton pond paved trail for those that want to get to barton road, and its <1/4 mile of riding on main to get to huron river drive if you don't take the trail... What, we need a bike lane that goes to a highway onramp??? +1 on electronic lighting coordination.
Widow Wadman
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 3:30 p.m.
Boneheaded is the word that came to my mind as well.
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:46 p.m.
Why not use the trail through Bandemer Park, and then the City construct a connecter pathway from it to Huron River Drive. This provides a very nice bike path for bicyclists and keeps them separated from traffic that travels 45 to 50 MPH
Bcar
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:46 p.m.
Its easy to take the paved trail past the rowing dock, past the disc golf course and then a short 30m walk across the tracks to HRD... But hey, lets spend millions re-doing the road to make it worse for traffic, so a few dozen riders can feel safer... NOT! Hey, and im a big rider, ride 3-6 days a week, and we dont need a bike lane at the expense of a car lane...
aabikes
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:43 p.m.
It goes to the most popular bike route in the city.
Radlib2
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:13 p.m.
It goes to the most popular bike route in the city.
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:33 a.m.
Your apparently limited cycling must avoid that "1/4 mile" (?). It is among the most harrowing and dangerous in Ann Arbor for cyclists. Poor pavement, no turn-lane, fast traffic, and the M14 acceleration/merging each contribute.
A2comments
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:37 a.m.
Reverseable lane concepts work well in high peak traffic environment. Boston has it coming into town from the south. There is a cost to manage it, i.e. manpower and equipment to reverse the lane structure 4 times a day. Hope they figure that out and budget for it.
demistify
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:25 p.m.
Is your goal to make the driving experience as hair-raising in Ann Arbor as it is in Boston?
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:31 p.m.
Easy to do. Remove a person from pot hole filling duties. See, wasn't that easy?
motorcycleminer
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:31 a.m.
Sorry Mr. cooper this is not lego land ..crop circles , zebra crossings and now flip flops...where do these peole come from....just fix the damn roads . coordinate the traffic lights and leave well enough alone...duh
Tom Joad
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:28 a.m.
Great idea. Quite simply the world is running out of cheap oil. If you're not up-to-date on Peak Oil and its impact on the economy and the cost of driving you're in for hell of a shock, because it's coming soon. Getting people out of private automobiles or at least encourage car-pooling is a vital step to ensure the life of our planet and the prosperity in a post-carbon world. Bicycles are the most efficient form of transportation on the planet. Riding a bike to Huron River Drive via Main St is fraught with excessive danger. The posted speed limit on that stretch is 45 but cars routinely go 60 and higher. Competing with cars for the same lane is crazy. Most people race to change lanes to merge onto M-14 (The right lane is the correct one to be in). That is a potentially deadly area when you're on a bike because that's where you turn to ride on Huron River Dr. Bicycle lanes should be made available on all roads. The time has come.
Superior Twp voter
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
Climb back in to your bunker, T J, you are obviously out of energy. Your own personal sky is falling on you.
Steve Hendel
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4:04 p.m.
Since the vast majority of road funds come from fuel taxes and vehicle registrations, would it not be fair to start charging cyclists for these amenities? Ll I hear now are demands for bike paths, etc, but strangely no cyclist is volunteering to pay for them.
LXIX
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 4 p.m.
"Just Google 'new oil reserves discovered'. For investor purposes oil companies will spout grand estimates of "new oil reserves". Even if true, oil has to be extracted and it is still very polluting. Where do people think all the oil goes when it is used? The U.S. consumed 6.87 billion barrels (bbl) of oil in 2011. About 22% of the world total. Thus the world consumed about 31.2 bbl of crude in 2011. Saudia Arabia has about ten times the United States "proved" reserves. The CIA factbook is a pointed reference for world resources (something to do with national security). 1468 bbl world supply (2011) - 47 years supply left (45 years today 2013). https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2178.html
Top Cat
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 2:29 p.m.
Yes, we are projected to run out of oil in 1973.
G. Orwell
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:54 p.m.
@Tom Peak Oil is a lie created by the oil companies to drive up the price of oil. How can you have Peak Oil when massive new oil reserves are being discovered every few months. Just Google, "new oil reserves discovered." There is probably more oil in the US than Saudi Arabia. We are not allowed to tap into most of it for political reasons. It is the politics of oil. "Post-carbon world?" You do know that carbon is the basis of all life on earth. Are you advocating for a planet without life?
Alan Goldsmith
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:25 a.m.
"It also could prove to be costly to implement." This has never prevented Mr. Cooper with coming up with such ideas in the past that have proven unworkable.
A2Nut
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:24 a.m.
Please fix the pot holes and otherwise leave our streets alone. Please stop the social engineering. There are not enough bike riders on Main or Jackson to justify the disruption. Bike riders have not magically appeared on Packard, or Platt nor will they elsewhere. There is no noticeable public outcry for bike lanes. Ann Arbor is not nor will be a bike riding city. Stop it.
PhillyCheeseSteak
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:48 p.m.
A2Nut - the bike lanes on Packard are well used by cyclists. So many at times that you would think you were in Amsterdam!
aabikes
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:40 p.m.
lol
Radlib2
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:12 p.m.
You don't know what type of city it is at all. It is a bike riding city as much as any other is. Stop it.
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:24 a.m.
A sure way to keep the bicycles "where they belong" is to continue the bumper-car madness of Main & Jackson, i.e. high speeds, narrow lanes and no shoulders. Like most drivers, you don't notice bicycles until you hit one.
deputydwag
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:24 a.m.
Let's fill the potholes and fix broken pavement first. Maintain what we have. Let's see no one is able to use turn signals and now we will expect them to know which way a lane is going based on time of day and direction. Brilliant plan.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 10:23 a.m.
"Cooper acknowledged implementing [a three lane road diet] on North Main poses challenges ... [and] also could prove to be costly to implement." Lots of expensive signaling and ongoing maintenance and for what benefit? This proposal will hopefully be the final apogee of road diet ideology! Soon Jackson Road will be one lane each way, too. Apparently the mayor won't be happy until every road into and out of downtown is one lane each way. How about some common sense instead? How about getting the roads across the city up to par and expanding the electronic light traffic coordination system across all major arterial road corridors before wasting money and staff effort on unneeded projects like this?
liebezeit
Wed, Jun 5, 2013 : 12:15 p.m.
But Stephen, there's one lane a the north end and one at the south end. Why not just make it one the whole way? I'd say skip the reversible lane business. Just have a normal center turn lane, like in the picture.
BobbyJohn
Tue, Mar 12, 2013 : 1:25 a.m.
When Jackson was decided to be changed to 3 lanes, it barely made the traffic limit in cars per day to downsize. I thought that N. Main had too much traffic to be downsized. Ryan, could you check on this and see if it is over 16,000 cars/day?
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 3:13 p.m.
"..such diets can involve additions of bike lanes and crosswalks with pedestrian islands. .. A road diet on North Main could involve using the center lane as a reversible managed" This is from the caption showing the proposed "diet" for north Main. I'd love to see cars going over the crosswalk island, as shown in this photo, when the lane is used as a second directional lane. Very amusing.
Jim Osborn
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 12:53 p.m.
The goal of the mayor seems to be to make traffic so bad that people will want alternatives. This is social engineering at its worst. Why not use the trail through Bandemer Park, and then the city construct a connecter pathway from it to Huron River Drive. This provides a very nice bike path for bicyclists and keeps them separated from traffic that travels 45 to 50 MPH. To pay for the person who will move the lane barriers twice a day, a person will be removed from pothole filling duties. Last fall, I ran into a bad one, on my bike in a bike lane, and almost crashed into a car.
a2cents
Mon, Mar 11, 2013 : 11:19 a.m.
How about giving all road users a shot at using the roads? I for one expect each ride up N. Main to be my last, but do it anyway to assert my right to use that route... aggressive drivers be damned. They will at least have dents and scratches and some tall explaining to do.