Washtenaw County school districts stand to lose millions under Gov. Rick Snyder's proposed budget
Michigan's public school districts can expect to see a large chunk of state funding disappear under Gov. Rick Snyder’s proposed budget.
Snyder is eyeing a 4.1 percent reduction in K-12 education funding, which would take away $300 per pupil — in addition to an already budgeted $170 per pupil reduction. The cut in funding stands to save the state about $452.5 million, according to budget documents.
An expected increase in retirement rates will also cost school districts about $230 per pupil.
That combined $700 loss per student could spell significant trouble for Washtenaw County's school districts, which have grappled with budget problems for the last several years — prompting school closures, consolidation efforts and other measures. Per pupil state funding — which varies by district from about $7,500 to $9,000 locally — makes up the bulk of each district's general fund dollars.
“It’s about being fair to people and creating a level playing field where we’re all contributing,” Snyder said of his budget during a speech Thursday morning.
The executive budget proposal totals $13.8 billion for education, including $12.2 billion in funding for K-12 school districts. About $8.8 billion will fund basic school operations — about $8.7 billion for foundation allowance payments and $62.1 million for intermediate school district operations, which are reduced by 5 percent.
Washtenaw County school districts are hoping to find a way to make cuts that don't impact the classroom.
In his proposed budget, Snyder recommends creating a new State Education Funding Act that uses School Aid Fund revenue, as well as available general fund dollars, to support the state’s education system at all levels. That would include K-12 education, higher education and community colleges in the same budget. Currently, K-12 education is funded separately from higher education.
Snyder’s budget would maintain early childhood at about $110 million. Special education would be funded at about $1.4 billion, including $975 million of state funds. About $309 million in state funding would go toward academically at-risk students, $36 million would go toward career and vocational education and $22 million would go toward adult education.
The proposed budget cuts could translate into a $7.7 million decrease in state funding for Ann Arbor Public Schools. Increased retirement rates are expected to cost the district an additional $3.8 million. The district’s approved budget for the 2010-11 school year totaled about $182.95 million.
Ann Arbor interim Superintendent Robert Allen didn't return calls seeking comment Thursday.
Ypsilanti Public Schools would lose about $1.77 million in state funding under the proposed budget. Increased retirement costs are expected to cost the district another $1.7 million. The district’s approved budget for the 2010-11 school year totaled about $49.33 million.
Superintendent Dedrick Martin said he wasn’t surprised by the cuts to education, but said he was concerned. He said school districts around the state will be taking notice of something Ypsilanti officials have been discussing for years — the state of public education funding in Michigan is in dire straits.
“I’m saddened that they are choosing to raid the education fund and, considering that we are a deficit district who in the 18 months I’ve been here has worked diligently to reduce our operating budget by about $4 million, to take a blow like this costs an additional $3.4 million minimally,” he said.
Ypsilanti is operating with an about $3.7 million budget deficit during the current school year, and Martin said district officials will be having some tough conversations about how to stay solvent.
He said it’s important for supporters of public schools to lobby legislators to make sure concerns about cuts to public education are heard.
“I understand that we have to tighten our belt in public education, but there comes a point when we have to evaluate what’s important,” he said. “It’s very different to say education is a priority when sustaining financial cuts to this degree.”
Saline Area Schools could lose about $2.51 million in state funding, if the proposed budget is adopted. Increased retirement rates are expected to cost the district an additional $1.26 million. The district's approved budget for the 2010-11 school year totaled about $51.75 million.
Saline Superintendent Scot Graden said he’s hopeful the governor’s budget is the beginning of a dialogue for school officials in Michigan to determine what’s important to the state and what reforms can be made to school districts.
“It’s early in the process, and we’re hopeful there will be additional information to help school districts better understand how to manage this type of revenue reduction in a short period of time,” he said. “We’re committed to balancing our budget.”
Kyle Feldscher covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at kylefeldscher@annarbor.com.
Comments
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 9:55 p.m.
Five states prohibit collective bargaining by teachers. They are, along with their national ranks on the SAT/ACT: South Carolina (50); North Carolina (49); Georgia (48); Texas (47), and Virginia (44). Michigan ranks 13/50. Wisconsin, whose governor is trying to dismantle teachers' rights to collective bargaining, ranks 2/50. So much for the myth that collective bargaining rights for teachers hinders children's educations. Sources: <a href="http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html" rel='nofollow'>http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html</a> <a href="http://www.nctq.org/tr3/scope/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.nctq.org/tr3/scope/</a>
John B.
Mon, Feb 21, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.
Wow.
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 1:36 a.m.
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice... thank you!
Augustine
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 7:38 p.m.
We all have to pitch in to get the state back on it's feet, no doubt about it. We then get to: who pays what percentage in order to fix the problem? I sure hate to see our elderly on fixed incomes foot much of the bill, and I sure hate to see our kids' educations suffer - though I'm sure many districts can still make cuts to some programs that are offered. When it comes to public employees, unions, teachers, etc. I found the research stats helpful in a newly posted article on MSNBC: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41672854/ns/politics-more_politics/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41672854/ns/politics-more_politics/</a> I was surprised to see that when education is factored in, our public employees are not all that out of line with the private sector. Check it out.
maestra27
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:07 p.m.
@ Mike (3:39 pm) There are many reasons why a public education costs more annually than the $8000 you spent to send your child to private school. I've been a public school educator for about 15 years so I can explain this based on first-hand experience. I'm currently working in a comprehensive public high school that services almost 2,000 youth. Within our school, we offer specialized programs for the visually impaired, gifted, cognitively impaired, autistic, those who speak English as a second language, and a program in performing arts. Students come from all over our district, and from other districts, to participate in those programs. Additionally, we continue to service the "typical" special education students with learning disabilities (LD) and other impairments such as emotional (EI), speech and language (SLI), hearing (HI), and other health impairments (OHI). Our public school employees are often farmed out to local private schools to provide special education services. For example, our school psychologists are called on by private schools to evaluate individual students to determine special education eligibility. Students who attend private schools generally come from homes that can afford to pay that kind of tuition. Public schools educate everyone, including those who can't afford private school tuition and some who can't even afford lunch. Approximately 20% of the students in my building qualify for federally-funded free or reduced lunch. That doesn't include the students who would qualify, but who are too proud to apply. All that aside, we provide extracurricular opportunities for students including a wide variety of sports, clubs and after school activities. Private schools offer some opportunities, but they'll never have the range of extracurricular activities offered by public schools. Hopefully now you understand a few of the vast difference between private and public schools. Comparing the two just doesn't make any sense.
maestra27
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.
On another note, private schools are not required to hire teachers that are certified by the State of Michigan. I'm not suggesting that private schools don't have some talented and qualified teachers, but they simply aren't held to the same rigorous standards that exist for public school teachers.
aa_real
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:05 p.m.
Cut the rediculous pensions for teachers and school employees and the school funding issue is more than solved. The schools have to pay 20.66% of teacher salaries into the pension fund to keep their gravey train rolling. In addition it's paying teachers to leave the classroom and go sit on the beach down south. My engineering pension is less than 5% of my salary. This is rediculous. I wish I lived in Wisconcin where they are finally seeing the light.
Jonny Spirit
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:35 p.m.
See you later, pack your car and go. To bad when Engineers where getting the bid bounces and making over $100,000 a year. I don't think teachers were complaining about how much you made and crying and wining about they got it so good, they should suffer. Go get a teaching degree and become a teacher if you think they go it so easy.
Monica R-W
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 5:30 a.m.
He is starting a FIRE. We will not have our children experiencing a less educational standard than we did growing up in this state. We are Michiganders! Businesses need to keep paying and if they do not like it leave! In the end, our children and their education will be left ALONE! Join into the protest.. Michiganders will WALK LIKE A EGYPTIAN on Snyder's Draconian cuts!!! <a href="http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2011/02/michiganders-afl-cio-plan-march-to.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2011/02/michiganders-afl-cio-plan-march-to.html</a>
FattyJ
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:18 a.m.
If there is more competition for their jobs, teachers will be motivated to work harder. Start a voucher system!
Steve Norton, MIPFS
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:14 a.m.
It's probably useless to post at this point, but does anybody care that these cuts are not happening because schools have been spending too much? Schools took a big hit last year and would have taken one again were it not for a second dose of Federal money (the EdJobs bill). Things would have been even worse in 2008-09 if not for the huge Federal stimulus. The cuts that would have been required would have endangered many school districts across the state and devastated our ability to teach children. The state School Aid Fund is projected to have a surplus next year, but instead of allowing schools to recover some ground, the Governor is taking that surplus, and more, and using it to fund community colleges and universities. I support funding for those institutions, too, but does it make sense to take it out of primary and secondary education? The problem is in the General Fund budget, and it's because too many folks want great services for free. Lastly, Michigan total personal income grew 2.4% last year, and is projected to grow 2.7% this year and 3.3% next year. We can barely maintain public services, but we are going to let the income tax rate step down again? Why no talk of a services tax, where the economy is growing? Why no talk of a progressive income tax? If you are worried about low income workers, why kill the state EITC? Not everyone is still losing money. But we have created a tax system in Michigan that puts more of the burden on those hardest hit and less on those who really can still afford to contribute more.
Steve Norton, MIPFS
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 5 a.m.
Anyone who is having trouble putting food on the table should be paying very little in taxes. That's why I support the EITC, and why I support a graduated income tax. Overall state personal income is rising, not sure where you got your figures. I'm doing OK, and I'm willing to pay my fair share. But much of our new legislature was elected with a mission to ensure that those who are doing well don't have to contribute much.
Steve Norton, MIPFS
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 4:53 a.m.
YpsiLivin: my focus is K-12, but the story is the same. Cutting education is poking a hole in our lifeboat. But colleges and universities can change tuition. Public schools cannot. DonBee: Once again, public school pensions are under the sole control of the state legislature. The contribution rate is set by a state agency according to accounting rules. Contributions go to pay for current retiree health care, and to shore up the retirement benefit fund after market losses. The 20% that district put in is NOT credited to anyone's account. Current employees have no guarantee that retirement will include health care when they retire. They also have no guarantee that the pension will amount to anything when they retire. The state Constitution only requires the state to offer a pension, but says nothing about how much. Teachers must now have 10 years of service to vest in the plan. If they leave before then, they get NOTHING besides the money they put in themselves into the "savings plan" or at most can take with them the 2% employer contrib into the savings plan after 4 years. Teachers must be 60 to draw on the pension, and the amount they get depends on years of service and final average compensation. Words like "Cadillac benefits" and "gravy train" are wonderful ways of distracting people from the truth.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 3:01 a.m.
"What is your solution? More taxes? Some folks have to choose between taxes, and food. Is that fair?" DonBee, you had me until that last line. It is precisely the people who might have to choose between food and taxes who are being hurt by this budget. You are correct, the current pension system is unsustainable. The solution, to me, is obvious--one where, depending on one's time in service, people are allowed to stay in to retirement, or they are bought out with a lump sum they will invest in a define contribution plan. But even that will be costly--I've laid out my idea in length elsewhere. Suffice it to say that everyone will take a haircut--current retirees, future retirees, and taxpayers. But no one is willing to have a rational discussion that will fix the problem. The unions won't budge, nor will the right wing who won't permit a tax hike to pay for it. And so the problem gets worse and more difficult and expensive to solve. Good Night and Good Luck
YpsiLivin
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:57 a.m.
Steve, I don't recall you complaining when Granny cut the appropriations to colleges and universities in order to avoid cutting K-12. "...too many folks want great services for free..." Like public education?
DonBee
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:50 a.m.
Steve - Let's start with Pension and Health Care costs, which are killing the ability of schools to manage their budgets. These costs were negotiated by the unions in most cases with the schools. Fuel costs are down, electricity costs are down. Many other costs are down. Only the labor costs rise. This in a state with falling household income. The largest increase in household income in the state last year was in public sector employees. The second largest was in UAW families, where the members were called back to work. We are still below what the average household made in 2004. It is a tough one to fix Steve. Education makes up $13 billion of the $46 billion dollar state budget. Then we can look at the impact of the various new Federal health care mandates, that take money out of the control of the state government. What is your solution? More taxes? Some folks have to choose between taxes, and food. Is that fair?
macjont
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:54 p.m.
In light of Snyder's proposed budget re education and many of these responses that are so very anti-teacher and anti-education, the thing that makes me happy is that my sons are finished with their educational experience in the Michigan public school system. Without objection from me or my wife, both sons have left the state and now reside in states where they truly value education. If I had more children to educate, I would make sure that it would take place in a location other than Rick Snyder's Michigan. This state will soon rival Mississippi as among the worst places to live in the U.S. Thanks Rick.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 3:05 a.m.
Yeah, he wouldn't have an agenda, would he? But not bankrupt enough, apparently, to prevent his support of a $3 billion program to build jet engines that the Air Force doesn't want that would be built in his district. I guess that might be called "selective bankruptcy"? Good Night and Good Luck
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:38 a.m.
Dear Ed Because it is simply not affordable, nor sustainable. But heck, that's just my opinion, with not a scintilla of facts to back me up. Except, maybe, our new Speaker of the House saying that the US is basically bankrupt. But what does he know?
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:53 a.m.
Get your wallet out and you pay for Gov health care Mister Ed. I won't ride your train willingly. Have a good nigh Mister Ed.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:14 a.m.
Yes. God forbid that teachers have good health care benefits. Can't help but why the logic doesn't go the other way. Rather than complaining about what teachers have, why not demand the same level of health care for ALL Americans? Good Night and Good Luck
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:08 a.m.
Thanks for the good laugh, you could not be more wrong ! Michigan teachers are the 3rd highest paid in the nation with Cadillac benefits better than everyone else.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:40 p.m.
gyre wrote: "For all you naysayers, how would you resolve the budget problem? " Since you ask: 1) If the MBT is overly complex, fine. Simplify it in a way that is revenue neutral. Savings: $1.5 billion from the governor's proposal. 2) Prevent the implementation of the coming reduction in income tax rate. If the tax were implemented the average Michigander would have about .90 per week more to spend than they do now. Killing the tax cut would give the state $200-$300 million in additional revenue over the current budget projections. Seems a no brainer--.90 for me vs. $300 million for the state. 3) If this is a "shared" burden, I'd take 2) one step further. Sure--tax pensions, etc ... But raise the income tax on the rest of us at least half the rate that will be paid by seniors on a fixed income. Michigan has one of the lowest income tax rates in the nation and is one of the very few states that has a flat tax (and this includes states in the "low tax" South). Time to change this. These changes would come close to balancing the budget. The governor clearly wishes to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and of the elderly rather than making his business buddies pay. But that's who got elected. No one can honestly say they're surprised by this, can they? Good Night and Good Luck
Jonny Spirit
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:30 p.m.
@Inside the hall. What are you even talking about. This bond has nothing to do with teachers. Vote NO who cares. This bond is to fix roofs and other building issues. Put a bucket under the leaking roof. Teachers will still get paid. @cinnabar7071 Take you kids to a Private School. Where teachers are getting paid $25,000 a year, know band, technology, or any other choices other then Math, English and SS. Let me know how this is good for your child. Have fun. Oh yeah, also give them about $15,000 a year out of your pocket, instead of free education. @ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball and XMO If you think it is so easy go be a TEACHER!!! Stop crying, colleges give these degrees out every day. Grab a tissue and shut up. If your not doing anything to to make your life better then you deserve everything you get. Life is hard, just because Teachers have a good job they should not have to suffer because you have it so bad. Suck it up and go back to school and get a better job. Keep cutting and you will all find out how bad it will get. 40-50 kids in a classroom, test scores falling, people leaving your town, buisness shutting down and now you house value will drop even more. Go ahead keep up your complaining from behind your computer. This is going to get bad fast. Pack up your cars time to leave.
grye
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:22 p.m.
I'm not happy with some of the cuts that have been recommended to help balance the budget. For all you naysayers, how would you resolve the budget problem? Increase taxes to 50% to cover all the costs? Can you afford to pay 50% in taxes? Cut teachers salaries to minimum wage? You'll really get the best teachers with those salaries. Demand high wage earners pay a higher tax rate just because their company performed well or they came up with a great product that sold like hotcakes? How about a flat tax. What a concept. That seems awfully fair.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.
The state HAS a flat tax--one of the few that does. Interestingly, most states in the South have higher tax rates AND have graduated tax rates. Consumption taxes are extremely regressive. Some folks never cease to come up with ways to harm the poorer among us. That was, after all, what Jesus told us to do. Good Night and Good Luck
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:01 a.m.
An even fairer tax would be a consumption tax. That would be fair to everyone !
Macabre Sunset
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
The top 1% of earners pay 23% of their income in income tax. The bottom 50% of earners pay less than 3% in income tax. But, by all means people, continue to vilify the group that foots most of the bill. We can solve all of our problems here by privatizing the work force. This needs to happen.
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:57 a.m.
Don't feel bad, when they have no facts they call you "misguided". Facts are facts, good post !
macjont
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:55 p.m.
How misguided!
grye
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:10 p.m.
Teachers have a student ratio of 35 to 1( lmore or less). They are pretty much supervising these kids all day. How about state worker / management ratios be the same. 35 to 1 for workers to supervisors, supervisors to managers, managers to directors, etc. Buet there will be a lot of waste cut within the management ranks of govt employees. You have got to believe it is far less than that right now.
DonBee
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:44 a.m.
Not according to the AAPS staffing information it is less than 20:1 in Ann Arbor. So if there are 35 students in the classroom, where are the rest of the teachers?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:10 p.m.
FattyJ wrote: "If there is no business then there is no government." Yes, indeed. Let me quote the Constitution: "We the businesses, in order to achieve greater profits, do hereby constitute a new government, designed to maximize our profits while taking advantage of working class Americans. We hereby pledge ourselves to the elimination of corporate taxes, to insuring that the top 1% of income earners pay even less tax, and to continuing to buy political influence through unlimited campaign contributions, while reducing medical care available to all Americans, while causing public employees to see their salaries and benefits reduced, and while eliminating programs that help those in poverty" Yes, I'm certain that it says that. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:51 a.m.
sb: The "usual suspects" are people who make incredibly broad and angry statements without any facts to support them whatsoever. I'll let you decide whether or not that describes you. The State of Michigan has financial problems primarily for two reasons: its primary industry has been in recession for more than a decade, and, beginning in the Engler administration it started giving away tax cuts it could not afford. The last Engler tax cut, implmented weeks before Granholm took office, deprived the state of (by my estimate) roughly $500 million per year. Implemented 8 years ago, the total cost to date is at least $4 billion. Much of the fiscal pain of the last 8 years need not have happened but for that tax cut. And David Stockman, the chief of Reagan's budget office, has told us that this was part of a broad based Republican strategy to strangle the public sector. It has taken 30 years for it to happen but finally it is taking place. It's called "starve the beast." Unable to convince Americans that the programs and services are bad (i.e., they could not convince the majority of us with their arguments), they have played fiscal Russian Roulette with our nation and its future. Shame on them. There are other ways to do balance the state's budget. I have proposed one near the end of this strand. If the game is putting the state's fiscal house in order, my plan will do it. If the game is to give tax breaks to business and to do so on the backs of the poor, of the elderly, and of public servants, it won't work. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:40 a.m.
One last point: Me thinks the usual suspects doth protest too much. This is exactly what the agenda is in the House of Representatives and in the Republican Party in general. If you think not you haven't been paying attention. And that someone can reply to this only by implying I am a communist tells me that they are unable to counter this depiction with any facts whatsoever, so they must resort to juvenile name-calling. Not surprising, that. Pretty typical, actually. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:36 a.m.
The usual suspects, apparently, are unable to recognize sarcasm. Not surprising. Good Night and Good Luck
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:17 a.m.
Ed I'm sorry, but that was one of the silliest posts you have ever written. I'm not even sure where to begin, so I'll just refrain...
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:56 a.m.
You gotta be kidding me. Now we really know where you stand. CCCP , fav 4 letters !
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:49 p.m.
Rickie' copy must say that.
grye
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:15 p.m.
Whost: What would you like to see? All monies given to the State and then an equal amount given to each citizen for living expenses? That would put everyone on equal ground, including those who don't want to try and improve their positions within society. Boy that would be real fair. And businesses would only get just enough to make minimal improvements. Who cares about research and development costs to bring new products to the market. Get real. Without businesses we don't have jobs.
Floyd
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:01 p.m.
Snyder's plan is reminiscent of what is happening at the national level: Republicans demand continued tax breaks for the richest Americans even while we are slashing benefits to help poor people who will literally freeze in their homes. He is cutting taxes for the business-owning class in Michigan while slashing the benefits of middle class folks who have already tightened their belts. Snyder is a hypocrite and here's why: he pays 17 thousand dollars a year for his daughter to attend high school with the children of his rich friends in Ann Arbor. This is over twice the amount that public schools get for each of their students. It's easy for a rich man who demands the "best" for his own daughter to denigrate the public schools for "spending too much." His first action as governor is to grease the palms of his wealthy friends - who have lauded this financial plan as "sensible" - while crippling the middle class employees who "make too much money." Our taxes are being shifting out of the public sector right into the pockets of business owners, who face no restrictions about what to do with that money. He is shifting our state toward the same direction Republicans at the national level are headed: a system that favors a wealth-holding upper class that enjoys the spoils seized from a desperate servant underclass. He's not a nerd - he's a would-be oligarch making an early payout to the constituents that matter most to him.
PittsfieldPerson
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:29 a.m.
Not true - besides the per pupil foundation allowance, Ann Arbor Schools receive funding from debt levies , sinking fund money, WISD allocation for special ed funding, as well as state and federal grants. Does Greenhills levy a millage? Where in the budget is he "slashing the benefits of the middle class?" Where did it say middle class employees make too much money? Poor people who will literally freeze in their homes? If you must be inflammatory could you at least be specific? A desperate servant underclass? Wow - that's quite a leap from leveling the playing field on pension taxation.
Dog Guy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 9:17 p.m.
The phrase "for our children" annoys me. School funding does not go to "our children". School funding goes to teachers like me who work half as many hours annually for twice the pay and benefits of the average Michigan worker. It is a wonderful system creating a mandarin class of which all should be very proud.
macjont
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:58 p.m.
Guess you ought to work harder Dog Guy. My wife, recently retired, worked far longer and harder than Michigan workers with equivalent education and experience, and she was paid far less. (Truth be know, I doubt you are really a teacher.)
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:11 p.m.
" School funding goes to teachers like me . . . " Yeah, right. That's believable. Good Night and Good Luck
braggslaw
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 9:08 p.m.
Willow Run, Lincoln and Ypsi schools are an example of failure at every level. They need to be consolidated or better yet, shut down, with the new charter schools replacing them.
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:46 p.m.
Could we send the teachers from these districts to New York to find out how to educate the "at risk" children, for less money?
Macabre Sunset
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 9:03 p.m.
If we start privatizing all education-related jobs, our children can have a better education well within the proposed budget. I used to agree with the pro-union stance here, but having witnessed my son's experience in the AAPS, the system is hopelessly broken because there is no leadership and quality teachers are hard to find.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:34 a.m.
sb: It's because the usual suspects never have facts. Just anger. Good Night and Good Luck
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:14 a.m.
Ed Why do you make a habit of answering your own questions? Thought so. Bleaugh
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:46 a.m.
An excellent post my friend. Teachers want to be called professionals but they hide behind unions. Good Day No Luck Needed
Macabre Sunset
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:52 p.m.
If you want to consider teachers professionals, then you need to reward those who teach well. If you want to consider teachers unskilled labor, then you need to reward longevity and incompetence. Which paradigm do we follow today in the public schools? The latter. That's why we have schools that lag behind schools elsewhere in the world despite spending much more money per student. It's time to privatize.
macjont
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:05 p.m.
Just a note: my sons received great educations from the AAPS. Great teachers who were dedicated and undercompensated. Also note, part of the problem faced by the education industry is that it must compete with other professions for talent. Check out law school, medical school, business school, engineering school, and other professional school graduations this spring and you'll understand where women, who used to be a captive market for the profession, are now seeking their fortunes elsewhere than in teaching. Teacher unions spent years fighting for competitive wages, benefits, and working conditions for their members. We are now going backwards and will pay the price.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:49 p.m.
"If we start privatizing all education-related jobs, our children can have a better education well within the proposed budget." Any actual facts to support that assertion? Didn't think so. Good Night and Good Luck
Mike
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:39 p.m.
I'll try to make this simple. The State of Michigan is broke, for those of you who get credit cards to pay off your other credit cards that statement might not mean anything to you. I sent my son to private school one year and it was $8000 and the best $8000 I've ever spent. Unfortunately I couldn't afford to pay my taxes and private school. We lucked out and got into a new school in Ann Arbor and have had a good experience. My question is why do unionized teachers need $11,000 to educate our kids when the private sector can do a better job for $8000? I don't want to pay any more in taxes. I've already had my income reduced by over 50% of what it used to be. It's someone else's turn to take a hit.
Floyd
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:08 p.m.
Mike, The private sector doesn't get by with 8 thousand dollars. Snyder pays 17 thousand dollars a year for his daughter to attend private school at Greenhills in Ann Arbor - more than twice your figure. Apparently, on some level Snyder believes you get what you pay for in education - isn't his decision to stay in Ann Arbor and get driven by a state police officer to and from work Lansing partly informed by keeping his daughter in this school? Do you suppose the salary of the police driver, the cost of the car, the gas consumed even approaches the salary of a public school teacher? So much for tightening one's belt.
grye
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
Probably because the private school doesn't offer any retirement program and the overhead costs associated with a single entity is far less than what is needed to support an entire school system. Quite often the public schools offer programs that you will not find in a single private school thus allowing the kids more opportunities. All these things cost money. If basic education is what you think is only needed, let's do away with all sports, arts, music, etc. Learn only basic math, science, english (don't need to learn a foreign language), and history (and maybe history is not needed too). Then what what will our country and economy look like in the future?
HaeJee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:37 p.m.
I am not surprised at all by his decision to cut funds to education. If Michigan needs ANYTHING, it needs to educate our young . We cannot produce assembly line workers anymore, but need to promote engineering and science to our children. I am very disappointed.....
denise1inaa
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:34 p.m.
Help for businesses (they still will outsource jobs) . . . less help for students, poor, retirees, mentally challenged. I am so PROUD I did NOT vote for this guy. He even misspoke to Jeff Daniels about film tax incentives . . . what LIP SERVICE.
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:43 p.m.
I wonder how well his cronies will fair from his business tax proposals. Better than the poor and elderly, I am guessing!
yaah
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 7:01 p.m.
I like how it is always referred to as "per pupil" funding when it should actually be referred to as "per employee" funding.
leaguebus
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:39 p.m.
If Governor Snyder wants to cut the budget, make all that participate feel the pain, not just the people of the state. It is wrong to give a $1.5 B tax cut to business by cutting public safety and teaching jobs and adding taxes to those on fixed incomes. Snyder is right, we all and I stress all need to make sacrifices and this includes the business community.
DonBee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:25 p.m.
What we need to do is re-think the 19th century factory model for schools. The current school calendar and day design were put together to do two things: 1) Make labor available in the summer for farms 2) Teach children to work in a factory, including training them to work an 8 hour day It would be easy to put 90 students in a room, if they had the right software in front of them that challenged them to learn. Not my suggestion, but rather something I saw in a high performing school in Sweden. Re-thinking our school model is critical. How do we prepare children for our world? In Detroit we throw lots of money at a school district that "graduates" 25 percent of the children that started kindergarden. In other schools the numbers run to the high 80 percent. If you are happy with 1 in 5 students not managing to graduate, then you like the current schools. Additionally the community colleges have many "graduates" who end up taking a year of classes to get to the point that they know what they should have when they "graduated". Sorry, real reform is required. Right now all we are doing is carrying water to a fire with a bucket with a big hole in the bottom.
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:12 a.m.
DonBee I'm surprised that noone has commented on you post. Many countries have completely re-vamped their educational systems to reflect changing times. We are stuck in the 19th century model and don't have a clue that this way of educating is no longer serving our society. Did you happen to watch the two or three TED talks on this subject. Fascinating.
FattyJ
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:08 p.m.
As businesses have fled the state over the past decade, less people are around which means there is less state revenue coming in, but the salaries of government workers has continued to raise. Our public employees have been enjoying overinflated salary levels. DOES THIS NOT MAKE SENSE? Remember, if there is no business then there is no government. If businesses prosper, the government makes more money (through income, sales, and business taxes which all come about by business growth). Liberals only see whats on the surface though.
mun
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:19 p.m.
Overinflated salary levels? You mean like the Wall Street Execs. who ran the economy into the ground in 2008? Ha ha, you're a joke!
conairaa
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 5:31 p.m.
I hope all the candidates for the superintendent's job in Ann Arbor are aware of these potential funding cuts--and are willing to take a proportionally-reduced salary.
E. Manuel Goldstein
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 5:28 p.m.
The Republicans are eating our young
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Sun, Feb 27, 2011 : 2:40 p.m.
Don't you think Democrats already ate the young? And now there is nothing left to eat? No jobs, falling property values, bankruptcies, businesses leaving, foreclosures, negative population growth - kind of like Detroit - but on a State level. The Dem's did this. They do it in every town and state they take over. Chicago, NYC, LA. Raisin' taxes and regulatin' and spendin' like there is no tomorrow. But now it is tomorrow - and we are broke.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:33 a.m.
Yeah, because the Republican legislature had nothing to do with this mess. Nice scatological reference. Good Night and Good Luck
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:18 p.m.
And our old............
jeffsab
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 4:57 p.m.
We are getting Rickrolled.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:46 a.m.
"Keep on rolling me Rick, I love it. " There's a frightening mental image. Good Night and Good Luck
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:40 a.m.
Keep on rolling me Rick, I love it. Don't stop, just keep Rickrolling me :- ) !!!!
josber
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 4:11 p.m.
I don't think taking this kind of money from the schools is shared sacrifice. It's union busting. He's doing it at the city and town levels too. He'll drive districts deliberately into bankruptcy, then hire emergency financial managers with enormous powers, a la Bob Bobb, to come in and "fix" things, and voila, Mr. Ricky thinks it'll all be all right. How awful...
Ignatz
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.
Upon reflection of this situation, it occurs to me that we are not teaching the students what will be needed in the future. The Three Rs are no longer needed. We should concentrate on what corporations need for their work/slave forces. Of course, languages such as Chinese, Spanish, Malaysian, etc. will be required so they can understand their supervisors/overlords in the countries where they can get work.
MR.D
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
Whats the big problem, all we have to do to take care of this issue is lay off 50% of the teachers , put 90 kids in each classroom , and quit testing to see if the kids have learned anything. Give them all A's in all subjects and shove them thru like they used to do. and then we will have a whole new group of Republicans that can continue to run the state and country.
mun
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:36 p.m.
To all those blaming the teachers, I'd like to see you try and do their jobs. Let's see how long you last. Let's see if any schmuck off the street could do their jobs for less.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:31 a.m.
Jonny, Appreciate your sentiment, but Ford received not one thin dime of taxpayer money. Good Night and Good Luck
Jonny Spirit
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:11 a.m.
Hey Fatty J get your but of the couch and go do it then. Go back to school and be one. I wish I worked for Ford so I could get my $5,000 dollar bonus for doing nothing except my job. Just let the government bail them out again, but not the Public Employees. Makes you wonder who they really care about.
FattyJ
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:09 p.m.
Teachers have the entire summer off! haha you are a joke!
lionslover
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:15 p.m.
Typical repub. BS...There is no surer way to accommodate the rich than by cutting public school funding. It ensures the continued downward spiral of the low income and middle class. And just when we thought maybe we could hang on to some of our young college grads with teaching degrees- they will obviously looking for work in other states. Typical!
mun
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
Florida has no state income tax and is a right-to-work state and they too have 10% unemployment and a budget deficit, so I don't understand the blame-the-unions-meme.
DonBee
Mon, Feb 21, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
And Florida has one of the strongest teachers unions in the south. Check out feaweb.org.
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 1:17 a.m.
And because there is a direct, inverse relationship between non-union workers and rates of profit. Divide and conquer.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 4:01 p.m.
Because it's easy. BTW, South Carolina and Nevada have lower tax rates, are right-to-work states, and have higher unemployment rates than Michigan. But don't tell that the the union haters. They don't let facts get in the way of their anger. Good Night and Good Luck
jcj
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
So much whining! I hear lots of complaining but not many proposals as to where the State is going to get the money to avoid these cuts. Everyone is fine with tightening the budget as long as it does not come out of THEIR pocket. It would be interesting to know how many of the ones complaining are in over their head in debt. How can we expect the elected officials to act any differently than we do? We have a hard time staying within any kind of budget when we are spending our own money. Elected officials are spending someone else s money. We are all going to have to make some sacrifices! And that's where the rub comes in. It appears to most of us that those at the top are not sacrificing. And how can we be expected to believe someone making $200,000 a year and up is sacrificing? Not to mention those making millions.
auntiemmmm
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:51 p.m.
Considering all the mis-spellings and gramatical errors in these comments, the schools aren't doing such a great job as it is. What will happen with less funding?
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:07 a.m.
Also, it's grammatical.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:54 p.m.
It's "misspellings."
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:36 p.m.
Looks like Rickie Snyder is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Is he trying "clean" it up in a matter of 5 months? What an ego. Of course he is wealthy and won't be effected by any of the damage he will cause!
Grant
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:28 p.m.
Edward, I like your thinking. The poor and the elderly are least capable of paying off this deficit. I wonder how many of his proposals will benefit his cronies?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:46 p.m.
"You have an alternative way to deal with this you can share with us?" As a matter of fact, yes. 1) If the MBT is overly complex, fine. Simplify it in a way that is revenue neutral. Savings: $1.5 billion 2) Prevent the implementation of the coming reduction in income tax rate. Were he to do so the state would have $200-$300 million in additional revenue and the average Michigander would have about .90 per week less to spend. 3) If this is "shared" burden, I'd take 2) one step further. Sure--tax pensions, etc ... But raise the income tax on the rest of us at least half the rate that will be paid by seniors on a fixed income. Michigan has one of the lowest income tax rates in the nation and is one of the very few states that has a flat tax (and this includes states in the "low tax" South). Time to change this. These changes would come close to balancing the budget. But the governor clearly wishes to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and of the elderly rather than making his business buddies pay. But that's who got elected. Good Night and Good Luck
Mick52
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:06 p.m.
You have an alternative way to deal with this you can share with us?
zip the cat
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:28 p.m.
WOW, Everybody is getting all worked up for no reason at all Switch to the decalf folks. These are his PROPOSALS for a balanced budget.PROPOSIALS Nothing has been cast in stone and if any of the current politicians want to stay in office ,only a small percentage of what he is PROPOSING will make it to the final vote.
Skyline booster
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:27 p.m.
I am confused. How does cutting funding to public education, thus causing a ripple effect in the economy, help save the Michigan government money? AAPS is one of the largest employers in the county. Cutting jobs because of lost funding will create LESS money going into the economy. Taxing pensions and taking money away from retirees will create less money going into the economy also. How will that help businesses make more money when there is less of it to spend? I see a cyclical effect continuing in our state. I guess Gov. Snyder will then have to help businesses stay afloat by giving them even larger tax breaks. The madness will never end for the state of Michigan.
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
Easy. Because the current level of compensation is simply unsustainable. No matter how you like to think that their pay contributes to the middle class, if the system can't support it as a whole, then the whole thing will come down like a house of cards.
Corey
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:21 p.m.
Saying that this proposal is taking something out on children is highly misguided. It is the MEA that has created this problem from years and years of collective bargaining agreements that were unsustainable. Throw on top of this the terrible tax policy that has driven businesses out of our state which, in turn, lowers revenues to the state and you end up with quite a disaster that needs to be addressed. And this talk about government corporate welfare is unfounded. I'm just going to say it this way, if we drive business out of our state because we provide no reason for businesses to stay here then the government cannot have funding to even fund education at the proposed levels. Simply put, this budget resembles reality: You have money that flows in and that is the money that will flow out. As money that flows in decreases the amount the flows out HAS to decrease. But that is not what has been happening in this state. We've been living in a fantasy world where we create policies that reduces inflows and the state has given into demands that have increased the outflows. How does that make sense?
glimmertwin
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:18 p.m.
I'm no politician, but when I hear everyone is upset about the budget - liberals and conservatives - that tells me one thing. We finally have a governor that is doing what we elected him to do.
xmo
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:14 p.m.
Why don't those "GREEDY" teachers give to the children the "expected increase in retirement rates will also cost school districts about $230 per pupil". The teachers should contribute to their own retirement and health care costs like everybody else. What makes them SOOOO special?
DrS
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:04 p.m.
Once again politicians rob our children to correct deficits. Michigan is becoming a sewer with crooked folks like Kilpatrick and his posse . Now we have an elitist governor who sends his kids to a private school and rob the poorest children of their education. Just as CASH commented here " Shared sacrifice by the poorest,the youngest and the oldest...all for Government Corporate Welfare". Cinnabar...why DO you send your kids to a private school? Smaller classes, more student / teacher support? This is typical of the elitist in this society. You play around with YOUR children's education Cinnabar and leave mine alone...
InsideTheHall
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.
Chai: Stop the drama! Wisconsin elected a Republican Governor and legislature to fix the unsustainable mess created by previous DEM administrations. They are merely carrying out the will of the people in restoring fiscal sanity. ON WISCONSIN!
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 1:22 a.m.
Not so.... For your edification read this: <a href="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php" rel='nofollow'>http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-walker-ginned-up-budget-shortfall-to-undercut-worker-rights.php</a>
blahblahblah
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:55 p.m.
"An excellent backdrop to this story are the protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott "Hosni Mubarak" Walker's similarly austere budget proposal.....Protestors are likening there battle to the Egyptian struggle for democracy." Please, please, trying to connect Wisconsin union workers displeasure with potentially losing collective bargaining rights to the Egyptian struggle for democracy is an insult to those brave Egyptian's. It's the Democratic minority leaders in WI who are the one's hijacking the democratic process in that state by hiding out and refusing to participate in a losing vote.
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 1:31 a.m.
It's not dictatorial to eliminate the mechanism by which you negotiate with your opponents? Collective bargaining rights seek to equalize the state legislature and executive with public workers. This bill is a power grab. It's a good comparison, and it in fact honors the struggle of Egyptians who used the same mass action to force their dictator out. Having done so, Egypt is now experiencing the largest strike wave of it's history because public workers (and private) know it's time to really confront the military junta that is still in control of their country (as it has been for the last 60 years).
InsideTheHall
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:50 p.m.
Ok Mr. Graden stop blaming Lansing. You need to get tough with the SEA and letting them bully you. The parents and taxpayers say no mas! There will be a war when the next Saline teachers contract is negotiated. We the people will NEVER ever forget how arrogant the union leadership has been and basically told the community to eff off. Next step in the war is a NO on Tuesday Feb 22nd on the Bond Proposal which is nothing more than a shell game to shift money to the pockets of the unions. Mount up to the clarion call Salinians, revoulution has arrived!
Jimmy Olsen
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 2:23 a.m.
Stunhsif You misinterpret my comment. I am voting Yes. You'll never get enough savings out of the SEA contract, since things like retirement go up, state money goes down it will be a flat line. Like the slogan goes...we need to protect our investment. The SEA will have to come to grips with a "reasonable" contract, but that won't happen for awhile. Meanwhile, 200 million in assets can be hung out to dry.
stunhsif
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:36 a.m.
I am with you my friend. The Saline BOA is a bunch of retired public school teachers, Graden is a puppet master. The bond fund defeat (once again) will force Graden to pay for his maintenance upgrades and new buses through the general fund. We must demand the SEA take real and meaningful cuts.
Jimmy Olsen
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:25 p.m.
InsideTheHall, all bond money is required by the state to be accounted for. It can't be used for benefits and salaries. Stop being paranoid. Yes, the next contract will be an overlydue "market correction" and guess what, the Saline voters just un-elected the only board member to vote no on an SEA contract. Good Luck with your liberal board.
Carole
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:50 p.m.
Just wondering -- where are all of the lottery dollars going -- on most evenings at 7:30 p.m. when the lottery numbers are being drawn, it is announced how many millions of dollars are provided to the school districts. Can someone please answer that question for me - thanks. On another note, many of AAPS employees took cuts either in pay or hours and in some cases in both even the former superintendent. Yet, the AAPS Board of Education decided to increase the incoming superintendent's salary by $65,000 -- hmmmmmm! Starting in 2011, all school employees pay an additional percentage toward the general retirement fund--sorry not sure what the % is.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:53 p.m.
It's too bad the public doesn't know this, but for every dollar that lottery brings in, the state takes the identical amount out of the general fund to pay for other things. It is not a net gain.
Mick52
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:04 p.m.
Right Adam. I feel like the lottery was a big scam when he supplemental aspect disappeared.
Skyline booster
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:53 p.m.
Sorry, I meant to say the amount of the lottery money is what is taken away from education funding by the government. So however much is made with the lottery, that amount of normal funding is taken away from the education budget. It will never get bigger from the lottery unless the lottery funds manage to get bigger than the original budgeted amount. Can't happen if no one has the money to play the lottery. And the original funding has already been taken away and used elsewhere. It will never come back to public education, thus the constant cuts to education funding.
Skyline booster
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:43 p.m.
Carole, The lottery dollars ARE the education fund. The government has taken all other money away from education instead of using the lottery money to supplement it. This has been happening for a quite a while. The Michigan legislature figures if there is a steady supply of money coming into the funding, then the money normally budgeted for education can go somewhere else. Funding for public education has been steadily decreasing over the years due to money being funneled elsewhere in the budget and declining lottery sales because people don't have the money to waste on the lottery. Don't spend your money on food and clothing, buy lottery tickets to fund your children's education!
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.
Did you see what happened in West Bloomfield on Tuesday? About 40% of the Teachers called in sick - they do not have an active contract right now. Wonder why? . Here is some insight - "The total compensation of a West Bloomfield teacher grew 173 percent over an 11-year period, going from $47,346 to $129,637, according to information that was presented at a school board meeting in December. The teacher's salary started at $31,881 in 1999-00 and grew to _$85,836_ in 2010-11. Meanwhile, insurance payments climbed from $9,309 to $19,304 per year, and retirement contributions jumped from $3,717 to $16,854 per year." (Teachers pay about $0.00 in annual Cadillac healthcare costs.) . I know West Bloomfield is pricey, but $86k to teach 25 second graders - 9 months out of the year? . Sorry - but that is insanity.
DonBee
Mon, Feb 21, 2011 : 10:18 p.m.
Check out the comments from the Superintendent of Schools in West Bloomfield in the following article: <a href="http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/14584" rel='nofollow'>www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/14584</a> For your answer sh1
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:51 p.m.
Just FYI, for what it's worth, West Bloomfield receives the highest per-pupil amounts in the state.
John B.
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 7:29 p.m.
I question your data. Show us the link to the source.
Awakened
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:37 p.m.
They clearly care about kids enough to put their pocket-books ahead of going to work.
N/A
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
I will be graduating soon and I will hopefully be getting a teaching job (not in this state though). I can say from a young teachers perspective that I do not expect the same pay or benefits that teachers have been getting, and thats fine with me. I love teaching and as long as I can support myself and feel like I am receiving just compensation then I will be happy. We all need to learn how to live on less but I understand how hard it is to adjust if you have been living a certain way. Either way, we need to put the kids first, their education is extremely important for the fate of this state and country, and that is much more important than money.
sbbuilder
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:03 a.m.
N/A Wow, my hat is really off to you. I truely wish you all the best in your teaching endeavors.
N/A
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 12:48 a.m.
My comments are not that of a naive young college student. I am a little older than the normal graduate and I have been working in high school for 4 years. I realize what I have to put up with and all the work that goes into teaching. I am not saying that I will take 20,000 a year, but I don't expect to get 70, 80, or 90 grand. I really do love teaching, I was the passed over, no hope, no potential, left behind student in high school and I want to do all I can to stop that from happening to others and to bring the profession into the modern age. I am performing a service to society and with that brings me something money can't. I don't need the big bucks, just enough bucks, but it really is about the kids. If living a humble life and enjoying my job enables many others to go and have better futures and make our state/country better than I am willing to live that way. A big problem right now is there are a lot of teachers, new and old, who got into teaching because they didn't know what else to do, they failed at their first career, or they let the passion die off. I have worked with many people like this and they are usually the ones more concerned with making more and more money. You shouldn't go into teaching thinking about dollar signs, you should go into it thinking about how you can better the world and shake up a system that is stale and old.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:50 p.m.
Would like to hear from you in five years. Hope it's good news, but am thinking you'll be wanting fair compensation by then.
MjC
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:06 p.m.
This is all very kind of you. But wait until you get into that classroom setting and realize all that you have to deal with - besides just teaching. Not to mention the weight of supporting yourself and possibly a family. I wish you well either way. But I support paying our teachers (good teachers) great salaries.
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:51 p.m.
N/A Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
DonBee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
The only real tax cuts on the business folks were to small businesses, the ones that create most of the jobs. One of the problems with the way Michigan taxed them before was, the owner paid taxes on profits inside the company and again as regular income taxes. So the same money was taxed twice. Now it is taxed one time. Like it or not, this is one thing that will keep the small highly mobile knowledge based companies in the state. The big companies all pay the same or more than they did. No part of the state government, or any government will escape the cuts this time, everyone is hurting out of this budget. If we hold Education harmless, then who takes that cut? Medicaid - cannot do it, the new Health Care Reform Act dropped new requirements on the state, so too for Medicare. So much of the money is allocated by the state constitution or federal law, there are few choices. It is hard, it is no fair, and it is no fun, but it is what it is.
aamom
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:28 p.m.
Cinnabar When I was looking at private schools, the only quality schools I found in that range were religious schools who are not "getting it done" for that price. They are subsidized by their churches, don't offer transportation, and use the public schools to provide whatever special ed services they need. The best private schools in the area, as far as I was concerned, cost between $10,000 and $15,000. Much more than the state allocation and sadly, much more than I could afford. If I remember correctly Snyder's daughter goes to Green Hills so he will be unaffected by his decisions.
YpsiLivin
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:08 p.m.
sbbuilder, I'm not sure where you're getting your tuition information, but HVCS is more like $5k/annually for one student. (St. Francis is the least expensive K-8 Catholic school in this area, and has been for quite some time.) Further, at one point, HVCS was subsidized by the Ave Maria Foundation; I don't know that they still are. The school also has a fundraising contract worth about $1K that families are required to sign.
John B.
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:39 p.m.
Greenhills is currently $18,225 per year (tuition, High School side). $3500/year is a Parochial school, and is subsidized.
limmy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:34 p.m.
I agree with you. We paid $12,000 a year for one of our children. That was with no sports program at all.
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.
aamom Huron Valley Catholic school 'gets it done' for around 3500/yr. Check out their academic record. (<a href="http://www.huronvalleyschool.org/aboutus/testscores.html)" rel='nofollow'>http://www.huronvalleyschool.org/aboutus/testscores.html)</a> It's incredible. And, note that the test is not the MEAP. That test was deemed way too easy. Instead, they use the Iowa Test, which is much more rigorous. And, they are NOT subsidized by any church (no particular parish affiliation). They do not use public schools for any special ed services. There are options.
glimmertwin
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:28 p.m.
What I find interesting is that schools cannot raise monies through elections that can be used to supplement these cuts. They only can use monies for capital improvements. If this law is changed, then it is said that it is unfair to poorer school areas. It's a catch-22. Private schools are sounding better and better with each passing day.
jmac
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.
Better ramp up the Lottery!! Sure going to need all those Lottery $$ that go to education...
cinnabar7071
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:32 p.m.
LOL Yeah the lottery will solve all our problems. Cut the buget Rick you have my full support, the weak will get strong or be eaten. Life is like that.
you're kidding
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:52 p.m.
Is it surprising to hear our financial problem when teachers are making $60,000 - $80,000 per year? Let's look at the root of our problems! How many of you Rep. voted for Snyder? You should not be complaining a bit because he is doing everything he said he would! You should think before you vote!
MjC
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:04 p.m.
Why wouldn't we want to pay and attract the best teachers in the country with great salaries? Especially considering what we pay professional sport players. I'm just saying...
Awakened
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:31 p.m.
I am a retired public servant on a fixed income paying tuition to finish an advanced degree. This budget will cost me thousands. I likely will recieve little personal benefit from the long-term advantage of a better business environment. I voted for Snyder. I do not regret my vote.
limmy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:27 p.m.
What is wrong with making 60,000 - 80,000 a year? How much do you want them to make? Who do you want teaching your children? Low wage earners?
Mick52
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.
And they work only nine months/year. I keep thinking I should have been a teacher.
grye
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:48 p.m.
$60 to 80k per year is a decent salary based upon the education that is required for teachers in this state. To get to that level, a masters degree is required. In addition, teachers need to take continuing education at their own expense to maintain their certification. If the State wants good teachers, they need to be paid appropriately. If we want mediocrity, then cut salaries, reduce the requirements for teachers, and lets see what kind of product our school systems put out.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:50 p.m.
Cinnabar, comparing private and public schools is like comparing the proverbial apples and oranges. I daresay public schools could also get by on $5500 per student if their students and families were identical to those of private schools.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:49 p.m.
cinnabar, I'd like to understand your comment about the level playing field. Please explain.
John B.
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:35 p.m.
I just checked the Greenhills website: Current tuition is $18,225 plus books and supplies (this is for the High School portion of the facility, Middle School is about $1K less).
John B.
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:30 p.m.
Greenhills is probably around to $20,000 per year now, and they make it clear that tuition 'is only the beginning of your financial commitment' to the school, I've heard.
limmy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:32 p.m.
Private schools are not cheap. I paid $12,000 a year. It is more for a high school that offers a full extra curricular program including sports, music, theater, etc. Anyone know what Greenhills costs?
cinnabar7071
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:30 p.m.
Level playing field sh1. You have a problem with that? Why is it always somebody elses fault? Stop blaming other people and man up!
L'chaim
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:49 p.m.
An excellent backdrop to this story are the protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott "Hosni Mubarak" Walker's similarly austere budget proposal. For three days (at least), thousands of people -workers, teachers, students, parents- have occupied the capitol building and demonstrated there. High School students went on strike and marched miles to join the demonstrations on the first day. This mass outpouring has pushed some Democrats to boycott the vote on the budget. They are trying to shut down a vicious attack that Snyder, and many governors across the country are launching against workers and students. Protestors are likening there battle to the Egyptian struggle for democracy, and using the same truly democratic method of mass action to win. It's an instructive and important lesson for Michiganders. It's shameful that there is no local coverage here of this nationally important event.
L'chaim
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 2:12 p.m.
My "expert" source (economist Richard Wolf): <a href="http://www.rdwolff.com/content/corporations-government-give-us-more-tax-us-less" rel='nofollow'>http://www.rdwolff.com/content/corporations-government-give-us-more-tax-us-less</a>
L'chaim
Mon, Feb 28, 2011 : 2:10 p.m.
"Tax the Rich" is a slogan, but it is not simply a "get-that-guy" answer to "the problem." It's a "get-that-money" answer. There are billions of dollars going to corporate and private profits. It needs to be re-channeled to serve the public. Quote from an expert: "During World War Two, income tax receipts from corporations were 50 % greater than from individuals. [...]By the 1980s, individual income taxes regularly yielded four times more than taxes on corporations' profits." It's as much a national issue as a state one. We need to tax profits and high incomes generated in and through this state and country.
DonBee
Mon, Feb 21, 2011 : 10:15 p.m.
Chai - According to Clrsearch.com Michigan has fewer folks in the top 3 income groups than the US does as a percentage of population. What we do have more of is households in the $75,000 to $100,000 income group. Where do you draw the line on rich - household income of $75,000? Or would you prefer say $50,000. Or would you like say $500,000 a year. If you like the last one, we have about 2/3 of those household as a percentage of population in that household range vs the rest of the US. So your raise the taxes on the rich might not get you what you want in additional taxes. Many of the households that are over $50,000 are on pensions, oops - we don't tax those folks. This is not a simple "get that guy" answer, it is a complex problem. Something more than "tax the rich" needs to be part of the answer. I agree taxes probably need to go up. But, more importantly loopholes and give aways need to go away. As I look at other threads on this board, people are unhappy about the movie give away being reduced. Truly how would you fix this problem?
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.
Rich = corporate and private rates of profit, i.e., the billions strong stream of cash that flows from the process of production and distribution (of everything) NOT INTO THE COMMONS but directly into private bank accounts. Rich. They're here, they're there. They're rich.
DonBee
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 2:30 a.m.
Define Rich Chai? Enough to afford Cable TV? Steak once a month? Going to McDonalds for your birthday? How many rich people do you think there are in Michigan? We already drive folks with the potential to make high wages out of the state, why not drive more out? The magic "rich" folks mostly don't live here, in NY, California, Florida, yes. Michigan? Not very many, even the new owner of the Pistons will live in California.
L'chaim
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 1:13 a.m.
@gsorter How, you ask? Well, according to Wisconsin's own state fiscal analysis, Walker's tax cuts for the rich last year are responsible for more than half the "deficit", and, according to them again, Wisconsin is NOT facing a fiscal crisis. Amazing what you can learn reading newspapers... @donbee The quotes around Hosni Mubarak was meant to indicated that protestors in Madison are drawing the (narrow, but nicely symbolic) parallel between Walker and a dictator; it's not so much a matter of name calling or exaggerating (as your interpretation does) him into a murderer, etc. As for solutions, OF COURSE the major one is to raise taxes, specifically on the rich, on corporations. You can't say "give us a solution, but not the ones we don't accept." Regardless of whether "it won't happen" or it will, it's a big part of the right solution.
Monica R-W
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 5:34 a.m.
Chai, our Internet Radio Show will be covering the AFLCIO and Michiganders MARCH ON THE CAPITAL on Tuesday, February 22nd. If you can get off work, you should join. Make sure you spread the word!! No way will Snyder get away will gutting our educational system for the youths and university students of Michigan! <a href="http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2011/02/michiganders-afl-cio-plan-march-to.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2011/02/michiganders-afl-cio-plan-march-to.html</a> <a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/detjobexaminer/2011/02/22/special-broadcast-michiganders-protest-against-gov-snyders-draconian-cuts-to-jobs" rel='nofollow'>http://www.blogtalkradio.com/detjobexaminer/2011/02/22/special-broadcast-michiganders-protest-against-gov-snyders-draconian-cuts-to-jobs</a>
Awakened
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:26 p.m.
Which looks impressive. But in Egypt support grew. In Wisconsin polling shows the governors popularity rising and the Unions and the Democrats falling as the protest continues. Wisconsin already had it's revolt. They voted. The new regime is a Republican governor, senate, and house. We had the same revolt and result in Michigan. The old regime always suffers loss of privaledge. For example: As a retired public servant back in college ,I will pay thousands in extra taxes and probably in tutition, too. I will have higher property tax or lose city services. Neither my finacial situation, nor the State's can be wished away.
Mick52
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
One thing about unions. They will complain and protest, but do they ever come up with another solution? How should the budget shortfall be fixed if not by cuts? No, they don't. Actually they are all in competition with each other. Teachers likely would rather see police/fire cuts, and vice versa among all employees. So, Chai, maybe you can give us some examples of other ways to fix this problem. Where is the money going to come from? Don't say tax increases. That is not going to happen. Sure thousands are protesting, but hundreds of thousands are asking the state of WI to fix WI's problem. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." (Ben Franklini).
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:43 p.m.
You can bite the hand that feeds you only so much. The unions in Wis. have had their day in the sun, and now are feeling the wrath of the residents of the State that elected the people who will finally see about correcting their financial mess. The teachers et all can squirm and shout and cut school, but in the end they MUST come in line with the reality of America on the edge of financial ruin.
DonBee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:40 p.m.
Shame on you for Name Calling Chai, you are better than that. Governor Walker has gone a step too far, no question. But I don't see him "disappearing people" and raiding the Federal aid for hundreds of millions of dollars in personal gain.
sh1
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:48 p.m.
My understanding is that he is taxing people on fixed incomes and cutting the budget for schools and libraries in order to give breaks to businesses. What are the businesses giving up to create this "shared sacrifice"?
Awakened
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:17 p.m.
Leaving.
cinnabar7071
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.
$700 reduction of the $7,500 to $9,000 per student isn't bad. Nobodys being left behind as breadman would like for you to believe. My son goes to a private school that gets the job done on $5500 per student, so I'd say we have plenty of wiggle room here.
MjC
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 10:59 p.m.
Private schools can't be compared to public schools - at least not in Ann Arbor. AAPS takes on hundreds of children with special needs (children from financially stressed homes, children with disabilities, children with language barriers...). Michigan once prided itself on provided THE BEST education for ALL our children. We should be ashamed that any governor would cut education and increase prison funding!
HaeJee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:30 p.m.
Your private school example is NOT comparable. I taught at both and know firsthand that public schools have much higher cost. Private school teachers in Michigan barely get paid anything worth mentioning. They are NOT required to be certified teachers and are not required to teach the subject they majored in college with. Private schools do not offer the same services that public schools are required to offer. $700 is a 7 million dollar loss for a school with 10,000 students (which AAPS has more).
John B.
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 8:27 p.m.
Private schools that are not Church-subsidized are more like $10-15,000 per year in this area.
jeffsab
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 4:51 p.m.
Private school comparisons are irrelevant to this discussion.
limmy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.
I find that very difficult to believe. Either it is a barebones program or there is a lot of supplement coming from somewhere.
Teri
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:45 p.m.
Private schools don't have to teach the broad range of kids that public schools do - it is not really a valid comparison
Cash
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.
Shared sacrifice by the poorest, the youngest and the oldest.....all for Government Corporate Welfare.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:23 p.m.
The State is out of cash - by over a Billion dollars. - The average pay of a Michigan public school teacher is 16.5 percent higher than it is in Indiana, according to the most recent salary comparison from the U.S. Department of Education. - Teachers need to pitch in' to help fix this state Financially. Their Salary/Benefits is a huge part of the imbalance. Teachers live here - do Teachers want property values to fall even farther? Do you want even fewer kids in class to teach? (Detroit schools has lost _50%_ of their kids in 10 years!). This is an SOS - The States GDP has fallen to mid 1990's levels - everyone in the state has cut back each year, for 4-6 years now - Cut back hard! Teachers need to join the rest of us in this Single State Recession.
Awakened
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:14 p.m.
I concur. You should have said Single State Recession. @mun. Michigan is the only state to have less people in 2010 than in 2000, per the census.
mun
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:52 p.m.
Single state recession? You think other states are booming? Nevada and Florida have no state income taxes, yet their unemployment rate is higher than ours.
ypsi
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 12:15 p.m.
Impeach!!!!!
snoopdog
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 3:17 p.m.
ridiculous !
breadman
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:56 a.m.
How much is going too be cut from his pocket? He does have a daughter in school, still also under this funding. So that means Michigan's "no child left behind" program is out the window. Now a days it takes a education too get anywhere.
advocate
Sat, Feb 19, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
Snyder's daughter goes to Greenhills and not a public school.
YpsiLivin
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 5:50 p.m.
Before you get overly worked up about the fact that Snyder educated his children privately, consider this: By choosing to pay for private schools, his children got nothing from the School Aid Fund, which left more money available for people who use the public schools. The private school enrollment in Michigan is about 100,000. If all of those children were in public schools instead, the State of Michigan would either need to come up with an additional $750,000,000 each year to pay their foundation grants, or the state would have to reduce per-pupil spending accordingly. Instead of criticizing people who educate their children in private schools, you should be thanking them.
limmy
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 3:30 p.m.
Yes, his children go to private school -- always have, always will.
Concerned...
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.
His kids go to privite school in the AA area, so no his childern won't have the deal with the cuts at thier school
DonBee
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 1:37 p.m.
Breadman - He is taking $1 a year salary, living on what he has. He has children in the Ann Arbor Area Schools. He and his family are living with these decisions too.
DBV
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:46 a.m.
Understand Michigan is having trouble financially...but our children did not cause this problem. Our children are being pushed to keep up with other countries for their curriculum making things harder and tougher on them during the turbulent teen years. This is causing teen depression to be up and their stress levels to be much more than they should. Don't take it out on our children...you want them to meet the standards of other countries stop taking away their teachers and their funding for education and start helping our youth!!
Roger Roth
Sun, Feb 20, 2011 : 10:33 p.m.
sbbuilder, corporations are hoarding cash. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, if they get a paycheck. This is fact. Watch how you use ed. spending figures. If it were possible for states and towns to outsource teaching, I'm pretty sure they would. DBV is right. Ed in America has everything to do with grooming kids to participate in our economic machinery and little to do with what kids need. Toward this end, nations began promoting and propagandizing this bogus competition amongst themselves to be The Economic World Power, not giving a hang about children. Started in about '57, if I remember. Everything is about wealth of nations. Just ask you friend, Rick.
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:31 p.m.
Cash You make many accusations re corporate America. Could you provide any data that supports your assertions? Have you ever met a coporation that you couldn't not hate?
sbbuilder
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 6:29 p.m.
Don't take it out on our children...stop taking away their teachers and their funding... Please, take a look at the numbers: <a href="http://www.oclc.org/reports/escan/economic/educationlibraryspending.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.oclc.org/reports/escan/economic/educationlibraryspending.htm</a> You will see that the US is second in the world in per capita spending per pupil. How is that taking it out on the students? How are we not already spending enough? I personally think that we get a very lousy return on our education dollars. We consistently rank poorly compared to other nations. This, despite the amount we spend. How do you reconcile that?
Cash
Fri, Feb 18, 2011 : 11:54 a.m.
DBV, While as a senior citizen I agree....I raised my children and now am putting my grandchildren though college......we must remember that government exists only to help corporate America. To get us to quietly accept that fact, they say that corporate America will hire our children. How's that working so far? The US economy continues to grow....and unemployment is NOT going down. The next excuse corporate America will have is that American youth are undereducated.......and thus, it's all our fault. Got it?