Group protests Eastern Michigan University's use of Huron logo
As Eastern Michigan University’s Board of Regents met on the third floor of the Ypsilanti school’s administration building Tuesday, 25 to 30 people —several Native Americans among them— protested the school’s recent usage of its former Huron mascot.
A group protested EMU's recent use of the Huron logo on band uniforms Tuesday, Feb. 19.
The school incorporated the Huron logo, which it abandoned in 1991 for the current Eagles mascot, in new band uniforms it debuted last fall.
“I just don’t approve of my ancestors being used as a mascot,” said protester Jesse Rosas.
Added fellow protestor Karen Schaumann: “I saw generations of native students here assaulted and victimized work to remove that logo.”
The protest came prior to a 1:30 p.m. public Board of Regents meeting Tuesday.
In a statement, EMU officials asserted that the Huron logo isn’t being placed on any other uniforms. The school also noted the Huron logo on the band uniforms isn’t publicly visible during performances.
“Eastern Michigan University’s mascot and logo has been the Eagles for more than 20 years and we are not changing,” the school stated.
The Eastern Michigan University Marching Band got new uniforms and on the inside is the former school mascot, the Huron.
EMU President Susan Martin has said using the Huron logo is a way to embrace EMU's past.
Protester Linda Cypret-Kilbourne said that EMU did not consult local Native American groups prior to incorporating the Huron logo on the uniforms.
“They went about it in a very secretive way,” she said. “They just showed up on the field with this on their uniforms.
"The logo was retired, it should stay retired.”
Cypret-Kilbourne said she believed the logo was being used to boost donations from older alumni. She said she mailed a request to speak at the Tuesday meeting on Feb. 14, but because the school didn’t receive her request 24 hours prior to the meeting, she was not allowed to give public comment.
The school first adopted the Huron mascot in 1929. In 1991, it abandoned the Huron logo for a more politically correct mascot, the Eagles. However, some alumni have long been asking the school to return to the Huron logo or begin incorporating it again.
“I didn’t support the university after they went to the Eagles, because I graduated as a Huron," John Evans, who graduated from EMU 21 years ago, told AnnArbor.com in September. At the time, Evans was under the impression that Native Americans "didn't have a problem with the university using the mascot."
Kellie Woodhouse covers higher education for AnnArbor.com. Reach her at kelliewoodhouse@annarbor.com or 734-623-4602 and follow her on twitter.
Comments
Dei m
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 1:08 a.m.
To think that thirty people can cause such an uproar, I'm impressed, yet Native people should be listened to, they've voices that go back 10,000 yrs. But it's not just Native people that believe these logos offensive, but those in the Dept. of Civil Rights in Lansing that r seeking to end the use of Native American mascots in K-12 schools in MI. Their arguements r on their website, read be informed, maybe enlightened. Sopport these changes, support Keweenaw, Bad River tribe in fighting Copperwood Mine. F the environment, we're all effed. Let Steve Casey know of the MDEQ to block copperwood miigwech
Nichole Birk
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 11:33 p.m.
I think that this really isn't a big deal. It's not like they are using it in an offensive way...
treetowncartel
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 10:09 p.m.
@ Admiral Moose, I watched those films when the former YPSD had a focus group on the "Brave" mascot. That focus group was hijacked from the get go, seeing as how they let people who didn't reside in the distrcit sit on it. I have a miniscule of Cherokee blood in me and I am not the least bit conncerend about a mascot referencing indigenous people being used by a school.
AdmiralMoose
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 7:54 p.m.
Living people are not mascots. This isn't "political correctness." There is real harm to Native Americans caused by mascots "in their honor." That's the problem I have with President Martin's choice. It was at the least tone deaf; at the worst, anti-intellectual and racist. In the end there is only one proper answer to people who ask you to stop using their image: I get it and I will stop. I recommend watching Frontline's "In Whose Honor?" and the independent film "Reel Injun" to become educated on this issue.
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 2:21 a.m.
The US Commission on Civil Rights would not agree with you.
hail2thevict0r
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 8:58 p.m.
I totally disagree with your statement. There is absolutely 0 harm done by this. In fact, Chief Leaford Bearskin of the Wyandot Tribe of Oklahoma and former Grand Chief Max Gros-Louis of the Huron-Wendat Nation of Quebec asked to reestablish the team name as Huron. They believed it was an honor, as I stated above. There was no stereotype mascot of the Hurons, they were not referred to in a derogatory way and the name was supposed to honor their image as fighters. There are teams which have names which do resort to a stereotype, especially in physical mascots. Obviously there's a difference there. But this is not one of them.
hail2thevict0r
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 6:47 p.m.
I love that being partially Native American somehow makes it so you can speak on behalf of every single one of them present and past. I could be wrong but wasn't the chief of the Huron's perfectly OK with EMU's mascot, in fact, thought it was an honor? Just seems silly to me that people are so upset about things like this. A mascot is something a school, or region, is supposed to be proud of. The Michigan wolverines is not an insult to all wolverines. If you want to argue that using derogatory terms like the Washington Redskins is offensive, then fine, but using the name "Hurons" to represent a school is not any more offensive than naming a river the "Huron river". Let's change that next.
eldegee
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 5:29 p.m.
What about all the thousands of towns and cities named after Indian tribes? Not to mention half of the U.S. States. Should they be renamed into something less offensive as well? How about product names (Winnebago RV, Mohawk carpet, Apache helicopter, Cherokee airplane, etc)? Absurdity knows no bounds, so you never know. A little history lesson - Native American tribes were slaughtering one another and taking slaves for thousands of years before Europeans reached these shores. As it turns out, the European tribe was just a bit larger, with better weapons.
YpsiArbor
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 5:13 p.m.
Many people here seem to think this is an issue of "political correctness." But it's an issue of historical respect. Would you be screaming about how "PC makes you want to vomit" if a school used an image of a slave in chains as its mascot? Native American logos have become caricatures. That's why the NCAA has pushed nearly all schools to abandon them. We don't see Native Americans walking the streets wearing loincloths and hair-feathers any more than we see African Americans for sale at auctions. So try to understand the historic context before you NON-Native Americans get all huffy that you can't caricature other cultures with impunity.
Jeff Frank
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 7:24 p.m.
And you managed to miss the point... The Hurons (through their leaders), like the Chippewas, wanted the name and logo to remain. It's called self-determination and the Lakota, Miami, and other tribes cannot speak for the Huron (aka Wendat, Wyandotte, Wyandot), despite what EMU's "leaders" allowed to happen.
Mike
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 4:10 p.m.
"I just don't approve of my ancestors being used as a mascot," said protester Jesse Rosas. Added fellow protestor Karen Schaumann: "I saw generations of native students here assaulted and victimized work to remove that logo." I agree with them. Let's just forget about them and let them disappear into the dust bin of history. I would not recognize them with a logo or name especially if it insults them..............their political correctness only hurts them but they don't see it that way. PC gone wild..................
Fender66
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:10 p.m.
"Hurons, Hurons, hats off to you, fight fight fight for old EMU"........!!!
Hesh Breakstone
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:48 p.m.
Backsliding are we EMU.... Matters such as this one are not difficult to determine what to do as far as I am concerned. If the reference to a group, any group is offensive to THAT group why go there? Susan Martin's insensitive remarks are telling and were unnecessary as well. If Martin can't understand the history here...., EMU's history here, and how offensive it is to native Americans Martin needs to return to the other side of the class room and perhaps do some real listening this time.... Or in other words one does not have to agree with the assertions but if the group that is offended and the subject of the discussion here sees fit to take offense I'm going to side with them - always! To me it's a matter of respect...
dexterreader
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:41 p.m.
YouSaidWhat? .... you beat me to it!! Once a Huron, always a Huron. As an alumni (from the pre-Eagle days) AND a band supporter, I say, "Good for them!!"
YouSaidWhat?
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:25 p.m.
Once a Huron always a Huron!
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 2:18 a.m.
I find it very strange that, with all the issues of injustice in our community, THIS is what EMU alumni get passionate about.
Sarah Ross
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:17 p.m.
Let sleeping dogs lie! Why in the world has the University brought back this logo after they have so successfully transitioned to the Eagle?! As for Alumni who have fond memories of their days at EMU with the Huron logo, EDUCATE THEM as to why the change was made and why the University stands by it's choice. Time marches on and so have the band and sports uniforms at EMU.
Estate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.
Karen Schaumann seems to be the main instigator in attacking Indian Culture and history in the Ypsilanti area. If she's not a Huron, she doesn't have any say in the matter. Each native tribe is liken to tribes in Europe such as the Germans, French, Spanish. The Germans don't get to dictate to the French what team names and logos they use. The same should hold here in America. The Miami tribe doesn't get to tell the Hurons what they can and cannot do. If Karen would have ever lived on a reservation like me, she would have understood the issues.
kennydig
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.
What's a riot here is they weren't called the Hurons except by the white man. It was a name given to them by the white man and not reflective of their own identity or native roots in the first place. So they are mad over someone using a name they wasn't even their name to begin with. Now if they called their mascot "The Wendat, Guyandot, or Wyandots". Then they might have a leg to stand on. Just more PC BS. Get over it folks.
1bit
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 4:06 a.m.
That makes it even worse. That and the fact that you don't see it and think it's a "riot".
dae
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 7:19 a.m.
I'd rather have been an EMU Huron than an EMU Eagle anyday. The should've just changed the logo and had some stylized E (like Central's stylized C) as the logo. Heck, if anybody asked, they could reference the Huron River which passes by campus. Every other school in America is the Eagles of some type. EMU had a unique mascot. And is it any coincidence that EMU's big money sports (football & basketball) haven't done well and shuffled coaches every 3-5 years since the Hurons became the Eagles?
Bill Wilson
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 6:17 a.m.
Okay... my last post on this subject tonight. I've got to get back to my work: getting as many things as I can... renamed in honor of Ronald Reagan. I hear Atlantic records is offended by the use of its name as an ocean. Show of hands... how does the 'Ronald Reagan Ocean' sound to you people? (wait... did I just say 'you people' ? Did I just offend John Kerry? No matter...)
Mercutio
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 6 a.m.
It would be interesting if we could find information from the original change 20 years ago, because as I recall, the Huron Tribe was contacted to see what they felt about the use of the Huron logo as mascot. I remember their response as being that not only did they feel it alright for the logo to be used as it was not derogatory, but that they felt that other people should not be trying to speak for the Hurons, i.e. the groups pushing for the change of mascot saying it was not politically correct. Despite the Huron Tribe leadership giving permission, EMU still chose to change the logo. At least, that's my recollection of it. So, are these protesters Hurons, and able to represent the Huron Tribe?
Bill Wilson
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 6:11 a.m.
I remember it well, and you are correct... the Huron tribe was honored to have the school's logo named after them. They asked that it not be changed. Of course, their requests fell on deaf ears.
Bill Wilson
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 5:56 a.m.
Speaking as one who has a dog in this fight (oops, is that still a politically correct thing to say? No matter...) there's something odd about this whole 'patch' issue. Methinks it might just be an EMU trial balloon. But, as to who has the higher issue on the totem pole (there I go again.... wait, did I just inject some Ronald Reagan? No matter...) I'd wager that the Washington Redskin's logo/name takes this cake (did I just diss 'Cake Boss'.... geez, I'm 0 for 3. No matter...). And, despite the fact that the Redskins play in the heart of the liberal empire, there ain't no way in he double toothpicks that the team or its fans are gonna change their name or their logo. So the PC crowd better be satisfied with the EMU win; it ain't happenin in DC.
pseudo
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 4:11 a.m.
Kellie - this is a pretty poor cheap shot piece. These people are almost all from Ann Arbor and protesting everything from global warmimg causes, to the keystone pipeline to the LOGO (not mascot) being reused insdie a band uniform. They have little or no clue about the longer more sophisticated conversation that has been taking place for so many years. You did that conversation no justice and you should. the comments here are challenging but here is the thing: the actual real Hurons wanted the logo to stay their Chief Bearclaw, at the time, made the trip to address the regents but was shut out. The logo and mascot were meant to honor them. I agree the mascot did not and should be kept in mothballs. But that logo came with an introduction to Huron history as part of freshman orientation. Now, there is nothing but hokey PowWows selling trinkets and dancing dances and wearing costumes no Huron would have ever worn. (now who is promoting stereotypes??????) After their defeat (in Monroe while fighting with Techumseh) the Hurons fled to Canada for the most part. You might check up near Toronto for an actual Huron or two - the mascot is long dead and EMU isn't talking about restoring the Mascot - just bringing the logo back as honest historical fact - something I guess these protesters aren't interested in. But then again, maybe they should have stayed in Ann Arbor and stop trying to push EMU around..
microtini
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 4 a.m.
"EMU President Susan Martin has said using the Huron logo is a way to embrace EMU's past." Kinda like the way flying the confederate flag over the state house in Georgia embraces the past of the old south? Advice for Susan Martin: When it comes to making public statements, please let Mr. Larcom do his job.
PineyWoodsGuy
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:42 a.m.
@Angry Moderate. Your post of "these people" ID's you. It is S-I-M-P-L-E. If the Native Americans do not like it; get rid of it. Why not the Eastern EMU's? The Emu is a very, very Strong bird and it Fights like the dickens. And (I am not making this up): the EMU hen lays Green eggs!!! If that does not agree with yins, then how about the Eastern Hill Billys? My kin are from Eastern Kentucky (I are one, so I can utter the H. B. word!).
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 2:10 a.m.
ALL of any group cannot agree on anything. The US Commission on Civil Rights encouraged all teams to drop Native American mascots. They found that these mascots are "false portrayals that encourage biases and prejudices that have a negative effect on contemporary Indian people."
Angry Moderate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:46 a.m.
" If the Native Americans do not like it; get rid of it." You don't seem to understand that the small handful of people the article is about, aka "THESE PEOPLE", are not the same as ALL Native Americans.
Tim Hornton
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:29 a.m.
Didn't indians evolve from ape and monkey type things like the rest of us? So I guess we all have native american blood and they share ours. Let's all just just embrace our monkey fathers and have pre-apemen as mascots. I say EMU be called the Eastern monkies or apes. Why don't any colleges have apes for mascots if we evolved from them? Most colleges have animal mascots.
actionjackson
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:17 a.m.
Chicago Blackhawks, Cleveland Indians, and a slew of other teams with Native American logos and mascots alike. I don't see people refusing to support these teams! Much to do about nothing imho.
SonnyDog09
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:31 p.m.
Actually, the Blackhawks were named after the owner's bar. The name has nothing to do with indians.
WalkingJoe
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:22 a.m.
If these people want to protest the inappropriate usage of a Native American logo why don't they go to Washington D.C. and protest the NFL's Washington Redskins. I would think that's more offensive than the Huron's logo on EMU uniforms.
lmandrake
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:35 a.m.
Good to know that there are so many folks around Ann Arbor that are still OK with the use of Native Americans as mascots. They must forget that for hundreds of years we murdered and re-located millions of Native people. Or that these schools and professional teams are making millions of dollars from the use of imagery that is offensive, and very little, if any, goes back to Native Americans. When you make comments about eagles being upset you make yourself sound like a racist fool. I'm an alum of Eastern Michigan, and the mascot could be a pig and I would still support the school. For other alumni to make comments about not donating to or supporting EMU because of a nickname is stupid, and sad. Grow up it's been over 20 years.
PineyWoodsGuy
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:47 a.m.
The Second Amendment gave Europeans the "right" of conquest West of the Appalachins. That's why the 2d Amendment is so precious to a "certain" mind-set!
Angry Moderate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:06 a.m.
"We" murdered millions of people? Speak for yourself, I didn't do anything.
Tim Hornton
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:16 a.m.
I agree with these people. Who would want to have a mascot as an indian. Western civilization destroyed their way of life and having mascots only keep those indians in memory and honor. AA is a place of progressive enlightened people looking toward the future of western dominance in the world. Let's just leave indians in the history books without the honor and respect mascots give them. Melting pot people.
Sarcastic1
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:58 a.m.
Please find a more worthwhile cause.
Wolf's Bane
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:55 a.m.
GIVE ME A BREAK! Once a HURON, always a HURON. - Class of '95. This PC (Political Correctness) is total nonsense!!!
cancan
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:53 a.m.
My husband is 100% Native American, which make my children 50%, and all 3 are registered members of a tribe. I'll tell you what many Native people dislike more than mascots being named after them and that is people claiming Native heritage due to some minuscule drop of Native blood. Please do not claim some small portion of Native ancestry in order to support your position...that's just plain disrespectful. That said, my husband, and much of his family would agree that the mascots are fine as long as it's not a disrespectful caricature such as the ones used by the Cleveland Indians and the Washington Redskins. What bothers me in this comment thread though is how heated people on both sides can get over a mascot. A mascot DOES NOT make a school. No matter what mascot my high school, college, and grad school had...I love those schools because of the education I received and the people I met along the way. I could care less what the mascot is. Really people...is it worth getting this worked up over?
cancan
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:17 a.m.
I do agree with you lumberg. I think that what the band has done is a nice way to remember the heritage of the school and do not agree with the current protest. Nor do I agree that a small group of people should have the power to get a mascot changed. In fact, in this case, I think only the Huron tribe themselves should have had any power and from what I've heard, they we not opposed to the use of the mascot. And EyeHeartA2 - my references to how much Native blood a person has are based on what tribes require for a person to be registered as part of the tribe. In many cases, one must be able to prove they are 1/4, though some tribes do require less. So, that's what I generally use as my frame of reference.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:53 a.m.
Do some people consider 50% "a minuscule drop of Native blood"? Do you get to decide what is a significant amount of "Native Blood"?
lumberg48108
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:32 a.m.
lost in your story is this - this story is not about the EMU mascot it is about a small group of people objecting to a school paying tribute to its past heritage with a rarely used and rarely seen logo that has all three EMU logos on it the Huron is not coming back - that does not mean its not part of the history - and people (some of us) object to a small minority having a larger voice than others when it comes to making these decisions the protestors are heat seekers - nothing more and this story and the comments gave them the heat they were looking for
Tim Hornton
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:19 a.m.
If you played a sport in college you would understand.
BioWheels
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:13 a.m.
Actually the last time this was an "issue" the American Indians in this area saw it in a positive way, not as a demeaning symbol! Has anyone asked them!
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:13 a.m.
"'I just don't approve of my ancestors being used as a mascot,' said protester Jesse Rosas." You are free to disapprove. Now get back to class.
Catherine Bosma
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:31 a.m.
While your comment may be a bit flippant, I think I can appreciate where you 'may' be coming from. As someone earlier commented, most mascots/team names try to denote strength and power, invincibility even (these are athletes we are talking about). So names like Trojans, Spartans, Rangers, Indians, Redskins, etc., they are not meant to offend or condescend, rather to intimidate and profess power! I think when it's portrayed as cartoony or over-simplified is when we have problems. We can't erase all the racism this country has been deeply a part of, I just hope we all can get to the root of things instead of dismissing them out of hand because "it's 2013" or "I'm oppressed because my people were in the past." There's a far more complicated mix at hand and we all should be empathetic enough to rise above and give respect when needed.
Ralph
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:10 a.m.
No problem. The protectors should take up a collection for the $200,000 it will cost to replace the uniforms.
Indymama
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:43 a.m.
Ralph...you mean "protestors" right?
Ralph
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:07 a.m.
There are no logos on the outside of the uniforms, only a block E.
Catherine Bosma
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:03 a.m.
I'd like to know the history of the EMU Huron logo (I'm googling as I type this). Was it once a comic, probably offensive logo, like the Redskins and such? I'm personally offended by the Texas Tech mascot (and I'm a native Texan) but that's not tied to racial identity. Native Americans have a lot of social stereotypes to battle and I'm all for relieving us all of the scalping, warring redskin notion. I think a lot of college alums and sports fans hold a bit too tight to nostalgia but I wouldn't go changing identity without a good reason.
J. Zarman
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 4:08 p.m.
Thank you for the voice of reason amidst all this overextended passion (both pro and con re. the Huron logo).
Catherine Bosma
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:22 a.m.
I've got the date history but can't find any actual photos. Wikipedia barely even mentions the Hurons. Anyone have pics of the older logos/mascots?
Ralph
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:17 a.m.
It was in use since 1929 and it's been gone as the official logo since 1991. The Regents made the decision.
Dog Guy
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : midnight
"Eagles" is now required for all school teams lest any team be considered superior, and every athletic contest shall end with equalizing redistribution of points. The Huron River certainly requires a name change, perhaps to Honky River.
arborani
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:10 p.m.
How can anyone vote "Honky River" down??
sloppySam
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:22 a.m.
i say drop the 'H' it should be Urine River Drive... Eastern missed their opportunity in '91 they could have gotten an Emoo mascot... a big ostrich on the field would me one of a kind!
EyeHeartA2
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:51 p.m.
Notre Dame really stepped in it as well with that fighting Irishman. I'm quite PO'd about it and I will gather up 8 of my closest friend and couple of cases of Guiness and head right down to South Bend for the protest. .....and don't get me started on the Vikings.
AAbob43
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:35 p.m.
"Generations of students victimized." Really? A true story: my firm was once a strong financial supporter of WEMU. As a result, I was invited to a special dinner at the EMU hotel, south of I-94. In attendance was Chief Gros Louis, chief of the Huron Tribe. He was there with his wife, to object to EMU abandoning use of the name "Huron" and the Huron logo. He was the tribe's official spokesperson. As he reported it to me, the tribe was honored that the name was used by EMU, they found no disrespect, and wanted that to continue. He told me he had communicated all of this to the EMU Regents, to no avail. I recall this all vividly. His wife had a black eye, obtained a day or two earlier in Canada, when an errant hockey puck hit her. So who preempts the Tribe's position on this?
arborani
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 3:09 p.m.
Grye: I do believe Eyeheart is being sarcastic here.
grye
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:09 p.m.
EyeHeart: If one person is offended, then it must stop? You've got to be kidding. Life isn't perfect. Deal with what makes you unhappy and move on. Everyone cannot be pleased all the time. In fact, I'm unhappy with your statement. Should you change your opinion? Of course not. So I just deal with it. Understand the concept?
Ralph
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:14 a.m.
Who cares. Hoard your money Bob!!!!
EyeHeartA2
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:54 p.m.
Stop with the logic. If EVEN ONE person is offended, it must be changed. Green Sharpies for everyone!!!! Color over the Indian Brave. Or better yet, get some white out and turn him into a fighting Irishman. EMU could paint their helmets gold....but that's been done.
radioboi
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:31 p.m.
The people depicted find it offensive shouldn't that be reason enough to take it down and not use it? Many people need to learn to stand back and listen to people's lived experiences.
Angry Moderate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:05 a.m.
Really, ALL of the Hurons find it offensive? Why do only the ones who whine about it count?
moveover2012
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:29 p.m.
yes< but for us Non Native new citizen to this country/State/City it is part of the history of the STate of Michigan .city ,DONOT forget your history ,else ALL is Lost.Rember the ATLANTIS!
grye
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:22 p.m.
Those that oppose the use of the name Hurons or the logo don't seem to have any idea behind the meaning of a mascot. Look it up in the dictionary. If you know the meaning, then maybe you will embrace it. As a society, if we are going to have issues with mascots and political correctness, what about the bears, lions, and tigers? Do you think maybe their feelings might be hurt? Should we ban them as mascots too? Maybe mascots should become non-physical representations. How about the EMU Happy-Go-Luckys? Hopefully that won't offend any group.
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 11:42 p.m.
So you are equating human beings (Native Americans) with lions, bears and tigers? Methinks that is the whole problem.
NewStart
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:17 p.m.
I guess American Indians do not want to be recognized, remembered or thought of as heroic by people outside the Tribe. Embracing the past, as the University says, is just too painful for them....so much for coming together at a Pow Wow or growing because of Indian teaching, I guess. May the smoke be with you anyway...and may our tears become rivers of hope ^^^^ :)
Piledriver
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:15 p.m.
I bet if somebody threw a few bucks their way, their "concern" of the use of the old logo would alll of a sudden go away.
moveover2012
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:31 p.m.
NO BUCKS ...but Royalties...MMMMH I wunder about all the OTHER LOGOS..WW2
gold&purple
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:13 p.m.
The Huron is not only found inside the marching band uniforms. They are selling Hurons items inside the shops at the Convocation Center, too. That was a bit of a surprise (and disappointment).
martini man
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:12 p.m.
Are the bird lovers of America going to protest having an Eagle as a mascot ??? These left wing activists make me sick. Just a ploy to get some press and act all offended. Ypsilanti High school caved in the same way, rather than stand up to these idiots. Next they will want to rename the river , also several streets, a high school, and gawd knows what else. These left wing nuts are offended because it's in their political interest to be offended. Works for them ..so why quit now ??
trespass
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:07 p.m.
The use of "Indians" in American imagery started in the decade leading up to the Revolutionary War. It was not intended either to honor or to mock Native Americans. Rather, it was used by the Sons of Liberty, Sons of Tamany, The Order of Red Men, to say to the British, "We are not British, we are American". The Sons of Liberty dressed up as Mohawk Indians for the Boston Tea Party, not because they were trying to fool anyone but because they wanted to say "we are Americans". The problem with using "Indian" logos is that they invoke a stereotypical image of the "noble savage" that is not representative of real Native Americans. It is the Hollywood Indian not the culturally diverse people of native tribes. Look at the Cleveland Indians logo and you will see a cartoonish stereotype. Look at Tonto and the Lone Ranger. Logos reinforce our preconcieved notions rather than educating us about real Native American culture. I applaud real efforts to educate people about Native American culture but logos are not a real effort at education. That is not to say that those people who like the logo are racist but it would be more respectful to read something about the true history of "Indian" imagery than to denigrate protestors who feel aggreived by the use of the logo. Try reading something like this; http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Michigan-History-Patrick-Russell/dp/0870137123
Angry Moderate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:41 a.m.
Yes, actually--England violently oppressed the Irish for centuries, including suppressing their native language and selling them as slaves.
trespass
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:05 a.m.
@Angry- Did anyone attempt to wipe out the Irish? Did anyone try to eradicate their language?
Angry Moderate
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:02 a.m.
You must be outraged about Notre Dame's mascot since it doesn't look like a real Irish person. Also, MSU's logo that doesn't "educate" people about the culture of real Spartan warriors.
dading dont delete me bro
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:04 p.m.
when i read the headline i thought, "now who's upset at the eagle?!?" doh! let it rest already
EmmaG
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11 p.m.
I am ashamed by most of the comments that come before mine. I am not Native American, but my parents were born and raised in Nazi Germany. In that case, offensive cartoons of Jews and others preceded and accompanied the genocide. In this case, the offensive images continue after. Does it matter when? Is it a surprise that not many Native Americans have commented? We should listen to those who speak out! I often think about a displaced and slaughtered people who lived in this area-in much greater numbers than now- years ago.
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 11:33 p.m.
@Hesh: There was no need to invoke the Nazis. Simply bringing up the injustices suffered by Native Americans is sufficient by itself. To many posting on this page, the loss of life, land, and liberty is insufficient and Native Americans should also lose control over their heritage and suffer caricatures based upon it. The situation suffered by the Jews in Germany is a separate horror and the two are not really comparable.
Hesh Breakstone
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:56 p.m.
Emma makes perfect sense to me and although it's become rather popular to reference Godwin the point remains valid. If this reference is offensive to the group referenced why go there? Good job Emma!
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:15 a.m.
@EmmaG: Your point would be better if you avoided Godwin's Law.
Indymama
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:23 a.m.
Emma G, There is nothing offensive about a very regal picture of an American Indian. I am part Native American and I always was proud that I graduated as a Huron, although the Hurons were not my tribe...they represented to me a very distinct part of my Heritage...Native American. I, too, was disappointed when EMU became the Eagles. I like the new band uniforms and was glad to see the Block M /Normal represented because my sister & others in my family graduated from Michigan Normal. Honor your ancestors!!
EyeHeartA2
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:57 p.m.
Reductio ad Hitlerum, classic.
Angry Moderate
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:08 p.m.
I'm surprised it took this long for somebody to Godwin the comment section.
cinnabar7071
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 10:35 p.m.
I'm 1/32 native american and I like the hurons logo.
jns131
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 2:21 p.m.
This goes hand in hand with another government decision that is still in the appeals court. Whether or not to hand over land that does belong to the Native Americans. I can't remember much about it but it happened last year. Time to move Washington and let these people go.
Jeff Frank
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 7:11 p.m.
Two officially recognized lines of the Huron tribe survive today... the Huron-Wendat of Wendake, Quebec and the Wyandotte of Oklahoma. There's also a group of Wyandotte in Kansas -- a portion of the Oklahoma group that accepted US citizenship and land instead of being relocated, once again. Both the Wendat and the Wyandotte supported the name and logo.. and told the Board of Regents themselves, to no avail. Once again, the "Great White Father" decided for the "Indian," ignoring his desires.
jns131
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:26 p.m.
At this point? I'll take anything that represents the Huron. Unless the tribe is extinct or has merged with another tribe. This did happen during the mass relocations. We can blame Andrew Jackson for this one.
cancan
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:03 a.m.
Being 1/32 Native in most cases would not qualify you to be a member of the tribe...Most tribes require that you are at least 1/4.
golfer
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 10:21 p.m.
come on. you can pick out anything that is offensive to someone. do i like some things no. but do i want to ban then no. live with it. it is part of live.
cook1888
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 10:12 p.m.
Are the people protesting actually on tribal rolls or are they the anecdotal wannabes? One has a legitimate right to an opinion and the other is grandstanding.
cancan
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:02 a.m.
Agreed. Unless one is a registered member of a tribe, they really should not speak for the tribe.
M
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 10:31 p.m.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/401749/a-real-live-native-american Nailed it.
Elaine F. Owsley
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:56 p.m.
As a graduate of Central Michigan I am proud that the Chippewa Indian tribe takes the use of their name as an honor. A mascot is usually named for strength and determination and other good qualities. The Chippewa name, and the Huron name get no other recognition in this modern age. Central and the tribe consider the team name as an honor.
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 1:56 a.m.
SEEE??!?! All native people feel exactly the same way, just as do all white people. That means that if one native person agrees with a practice, then it must be OK, right?
jns131
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:25 p.m.
Yanno something? I was thinking the same thing. What about other schools that feel it is an honor and a privilege to have this name. I think it is the Ann Arbor liberals with too much time on their hands.
DAN
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:52 p.m.
I have always thought that the name change was an aspect of "politically correct fever" when the name was changed in 1991, despite the facts that the logo was in no way demeaning and the tribe's descendants on Oklahoma had no objection. I am one more alumnus who will not donate to the EMU Eagles.
YPboyWRheart
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:51 p.m.
Why don't we change the name of the River. HURON river.
a2citizen
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:08 a.m.
Or the street?
martini man
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:14 p.m.
Don't give 'em any ideas ..altho I have a feeling they have already thought of it. They are just waiting for the right time .
Karma21
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:39 p.m.
It is only seen by band members, so if they complain then give them the option to wear a uniform without it. Otherwise it shouldn't be anyone's concern.
ypsi_arbor_girl
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:37 p.m.
Why can't we all just get along and grab a drink at Theo's? Oh, wait...
John Spalding
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
I don't feel like the university is using the mascot in an offensive manner or a way that would degrade the Native American tribe. But then again, I'm not Native American...being an outsider I can't really judge how they feel. History runs deep and continues to dictate the attitudes of today.
PJ
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:27 p.m.
If I recall at the time of the change the head of the Huron tribe requested that the school NOT change the name. They found it as an honor, as it should be. My ancestors are generally thought of as tough. I would love and instantly become a fan of any team or school that used us. Now I get the Washington Redskins being bad but beyond that the rest of these names are badges of honor and pride. There are real issues in the world for people worry about and fight for, this is not one of them.
gerald Grzesik
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:26 p.m.
People have to much time on there hand to think of stupid stuff.
NewStart
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:24 p.m.
"Get a Job!"...Right?
Doug
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:23 p.m.
Protestors looking for a cause. How petty! They must be embarrassed by their heritage. I'm half Greek and proud of the Spartan name and logo at MSU.
cmadler
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:31 a.m.
Partial Norse ancestry here, and you don't hear me complaining about the many "Vikings" teams. (Well, actually I do complain about the NFL team, but that's because I'm a Packers fan; it's got nothing to do with the mascot!)
dontcountusout
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:21 p.m.
When I was a student, the Huron "mascot" at events was a very hansom Native American student wearing what seemed to be authentic Wyandot regalia. It may not have been perfect but it was an honorific, NOT a caricature. Nothing in his behavior was shameful as I could see. I'm over the loss of the EMU mascot. If a people want to disappear into oblivion they should be allowed to do so. It just seems a sad loss to me.
trespass
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 11:16 p.m.
Why would the disappearance from sports teams logos doom Native American culture to oblivion. There is actually a resurgence of interest in preserving Native American languages and dance. Go see the annual Pow Wow in Crisler Arena. Don't distract from these real displays of Native American culture by reinforcing a stereotype that was created by Hollywood.
Polecat
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:15 p.m.
I am one of the alums that won't donate until they restore the Huron name in its entirety. There are many of us that feel that way and the University is feeling the impact of this. Why so few people can impact and change something that isn't offensive is beyond me.
lumberg48108
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:22 p.m.
I think you need to step outside and look in. I cannot tell you what is or what is not offensive any more than you can tell me. What I have an issue with is simple. Some voices carry (and carried) more weight than others. That is what led to the change in 1991. If all voices were given equal weight and then a decision made, I would be OK with it. But there was an agenda in 1991 and certain voices were ignored. That cannot happen again. That would be a massive tipping point for many who feel as you do. But, the logo is not coming back; beyond this token move based on heritage. You, me, everyone needs to just accept that and move on and come back into the fold. Once a Huron - Always a Huron - that is fine. But that is past. Today is where we are.
SMAIVE
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:13 p.m.
So is there a problem with the "Michigan Normal" logo too? I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.
lcooke74
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:02 p.m.
I graduated from EMU almost 40 years ago, so I am and always will be a Huron. As many Alumni did I stopped donating to Eastern when they changed their logo. At that time, the head of the Huron tribe visited the Board ( the only major group interested in the change) along with several others and told them it was an honor for the mascot to be a Huron and they were proud it was being used. The board changed it anyway. I can understand if there was something offensive going on here i.e, "the Redskins" etc., but the logo and the mascot is meant to pay tribute to a proud people who once inhabited the area. Please let me know what I'm missing.
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 11:26 p.m.
@Jeff: Yeah, right. Anyone who would stop supporting their school over this was just looking for an excuse not to support their school. The school is bigger than any mascot or president and holding a senseless grudge over a meaningless issue is insipid at best. In 20, 30 or 40 years many of us will be gone and EMU will still be around. They will be the Eagles or some rodent or something else. And whoever is around at that point will look back at this and wonder what the fuss was about. It'll make a great history/psychology paper.
Jeff Frank
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 6:50 p.m.
Of course that wasn't the poster's point... the point of discontinuing financial support to the University was (and is) to condemn them for the lousy decision they made with an ill-begotten process that IGNORED the actual natives that were directly descended from tribe being honored by the name and logo. The University shamed itself then and hasn't really managed to pull itself out of the gutter since given the behaviors of its Presidents since.
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:10 a.m.
If Michigan ever stopped being the Wolverines, I wouldn't stop donating. All your school meant to you was a silly pejorative mascot?
jns131
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.
You are not missing anything. I agree that I too graduated a Huron and always will be. My husband ended up graduating an Eagle and does not find that funny at all. You see, he is bald. So, lets leave it alone and move on. I would love to see the emblem back.
lumberg48108
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:57 p.m.
PART ONE The Huron logo was retired in 1991 and many people are still not happy about that. Alumni mostly (and some Huron descendants) were not happy that EMU ignored many voices in 1991 and went forth with its agenda to remove the Huron name. It could have compromised (like CMU and got rid of the logo and kept the name) but the president at the time had bigger fish to fry. EMU then compounded this fracture by re-naming the school the generic Eagles. He left EMU long ago and the issue never died. That sums of the feelings of 90% of alumni who graduated before 1993 (ish.) It is 2013 and the name is not coming back. I am ok with that. Other should be too. But why are so few (25 protesters) again getting a voice larger than students, alumni, faculty, staff and some native American groups when it comes to the current regime in its attempts to bring back the disenfranchised into the mix by offering a token gesture that acknowledges EMU's history? No one said the name is coming back - it was a modest attempt to acknowledge the heritage of the school. Does everyone forget the Michigan block M was also part of the brand (recognizing the Normal heritage) along with the current Eagle? This is a non-issue but the sense of self-importance from one person quoted who believes EMU should seek permission from groups to honor its history is staggeringly arrogant. I can already sense the administration backing off from its attempts to bridge the gap in a modest way and I say to them, stand your ground.
P. J. Murphy
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:06 a.m.
You make a good case for your side. There are those who feed off this kind of issue, but that doesn't mean they are entitled cash in on every occasion. From my perspective it looks like a genteel form of blackmail. I hope EMU administration is capable of resisting this form of exploitation.
lumberg48108
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:58 p.m.
PART TWO Why does these groups (are they even a group or just a group of people?) continue to claim the only ownership of this issue? Why is their voice larger than others? This is the main reason so many alumni have hard feelings from 1991 - because no other voices were considered (even descendants of the Huron tribe who wanted to keep the name) when decisions were made and these groups (and people left) and EMU has had to deal with the fallout for 20 plus years. Heat seekers pushing an agenda should not have any more of a voice than any other group. Poll the alumni and ask their opinion and then weigh that against a few protesters. And if your are serious, seek out the voices from 1991 that were not allowed to speak and give their opinion equal weight.
The82Wolverine
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:53 p.m.
I'm an eagle, and I don't approve of my ancestors being used as a logo, either. All the other eagles I know feel the same way.
arborani
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:59 p.m.
Eagle Power!
Wolf's Bane
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:57 a.m.
This one sure don't, chief.
drewk
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:42 p.m.
As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be just as incorrect to use an eagle as a mascot? Just because the eagle can't stand and be heard on the matter.
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 1:45 a.m.
So you are equating a native person with a bird? Perhaps your attitude is the very sort of problem inspired by using these hateful mascots?
drewk
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:40 p.m.
I think some people just like the "idea" to be politically correct. Not they know what it actually means. There is nothing politically incorrect in showing a description of a native American.
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 1:44 a.m.
This is a CARTOON of a native person. Slight difference. Any native person, in my view, should have the right to complain -- it's ridiculous to say that only a person from the Huron nation can object. As a person of Irish ancestry, I am disgusted with this kind of depiction and I feel I have every right to complain.
tomnspats
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:37 p.m.
Lets hope that the people protesting really have something to do with the Huron Nation. One of the original protesters from 1991 had nothing to do with the Hurons. He turned out to be a jerk who started a school for Indian girls. He was convicted as a child molester.At that time spokesmen for the Hurons said they found nothing wrong with the logo.They said that their people had plenty of problems but the logo was not one of them.However,by that time the remove the logo train had worked up a full head of steam.Nothing could stop the movement ,least of all comments from the Huron nation.
kmgeb2000
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 4:07 p.m.
I would add the Huron Nation is the ONLY group or entity with the right to comment. All others have no standing on this matter. Simply being of Native American decent is not good enough. What I also find intersting is the intermingling of term mascot with logo. From my memory we had an Emu (the big bird) as the mascot at football games and other events, not some twisted caricatures of an indian. We even yelled "kill the duck" because it was so stupid.
Mulberry Bank
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:33 p.m.
GET OVER-IT! If the people of the image do not like-it, STOP it. There are bigger problems in the world that need attention. Here is a chance for the school to up-date it's banners. ..Is that so hard? Make it a contest.
Mary Ann Barbary
Thu, Feb 21, 2013 : 1:40 a.m.
THANK YOU. It's a simple matter of respect to NOT use the images of other cultures in this demeaning way. We don't have teams that use epithets. We don't have teams called the "Whites," do we? While the word "white" is not inherently derogatory, when used as the sole descriptor of diverse individuals, it IS.
Angry Moderate
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:47 p.m.
The people complaining are not the individual depicted in the image, nor do they speak for ALL Native Americans.
nicedoggy
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:32 p.m.
I agree , it is an honor. Give it up , quit stirring up trouble. Political correctness makes me want to vomit at times.
Angry Moderate
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.
Why do these people think they're entitled to control the way other people use images of their ancestors? You don't own the image of other people, nobody needs to ask for your permission.
Silly Sally
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:43 p.m.
A decade ago, when a group of "Native American" trouble makers took over the top floor of the Michigan Union tower where Michiguma held their meetings, I spoke with one. He was a UM professor, or at least said that he was. He had blond hair, blue eyes and kept saying "my people, my people." I finally asked him, after observing his very European ancestry, "what percentage of Native American are you?" His answer was 1/16. I then asked him about all of his other great-great grandparents. Are they not his people, too? Even more, so, since they comprise 15/16s of his genetic makeup? He couldn't answer me. I asked him what languages do you speak. Only English. He was a fraud, looking for a cause. Do I get upset, being part Irish, at the University of Notre Dame over their moniker? No, I rather like it.
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 2:03 a.m.
Your post epitomizes respect and tolerance. Kudos.
Kitty
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:30 p.m.
Native Americans "should not have a problem with the university using the mascot rather they should embrace it
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:20 a.m.
I'd agree with cancan, except I don't see why this particular group of people should decide any more than any other group.
cancan
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:01 a.m.
Unless you are Native American, I don't really think you have a right to say what they "should" or "should not" have a problem with.
Wolf's Bane
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 12:56 a.m.
No kidding. Be proud of your heritage.
real_plastic
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
thanks for the clarity, kitty!
JRA
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:29 p.m.
I don't understand why using something as a logo is considered "offensive" and not interpreted as an honor. As long as those that are using the logo are doing so in a respectable way, I truly do not understand the issue. I have Native American bloodlines in my ancestry, and I do not consider EMU's use of the Huron's as a logo as offensive in any way, shape or form. Long live the Huron's!
1bit
Wed, Feb 20, 2013 : 1:56 a.m.
"The trouble with the maples, (And they're quite convinced the're right) They say the oaks are just too lofty And they grab up all the light. But the oaks can't help their feelings If they like the way they're made. And they wonder why the maples Can't be happy in their shade." Rush, from The Trees
Clay Moore
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 9:59 p.m.
JRA - Indeed the name & logo were chosen as an honor and a tribute. This nothing more than "political correctness" run amok. It is perpetrated by half-baked activists with huge inferiority complexes and limited abilities who have nothing better to do and want to call attention to themselves. Any cause will do.
sellers
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.
It's not the words, it's how you use them. The logo is a tribute and reminds people that the area was once blessed with the presence of these friendly fellows. It was the Euro invaders that devastated their land, and this is the least that can be done to pay tribute to them and their losses and keep their memory alive so others can learn how bloody the invasion of America was by Euro settlers.
Kitty
Tue, Feb 19, 2013 : 8:31 p.m.
I agree