Posted on Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 6:05 p.m.
Gov. Rick Snyder signs right-to-work bills into law
By AnnArbor.com Staff
Gov. Rick Snyder Tuesday evening announced that he has signed the right-to-work legislation, MLive.com reports.
Gov. Rick Snyder announces that he has signed right-to-work legislation at an early-evening press conference on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 2012. Lt. Gov. Brian Calley, left, also spoke.
Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
The House voted 58-51 Tuesday to pass the right-to-work bill for public employees, and 58-52 on another bill for private sector workers as more than 10,000 protesters rallied around the state Capitol.
"This is a major day in Michigan's history," Snyder said during the news conference, going on to say that the law is "pro-worker" and not "anti-union," MLive reports.
Follow more updates on MLive.com.
Comments
mary pequinot
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 1:25 p.m.
This issue is about more thant the bill. Snyder's flip flop due to political pressure was disgraceful. He has lost all credibility with me. It was a bill slammed through for retaliation. No public hearings, no committee meetings. Just gleeful playing with peoples' lives.
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 4:13 p.m.
No, no. It's called "evolving" now, remember? And it ADDS credibility, remember?
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:23 p.m.
How about we talk about the racially motivtaed attack in Lansing yesterday whrre union thugs destroyed the hot dog cart of an African American vendor.
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/235064/2/Hot-dog-vendors-cart-destroyed-in-protests But don't you DARE call them, "thugs."
HaeJee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:49 p.m.
Very disappointed with the method used to push this bill through. Republicans in Michigan is following suit by telling all voters that might is right.
Whatever
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:58 p.m.
Ok, I am on the fence here and need some convincing on why this is so bad. Years ago I worked at a temp agency doing light industrial/factory work. Temp workers were/are typically hired to work on the unsafe equipment and chemicals that union workers refused to work on. While they made $20+/hour - I made minimum wage working in unsafe conditions. So, how does the union help everyone with better working conditions and higher wages? Oh - I see I have to pay them for that and if I don't - then I'm screwed. I learned early on that the unions did not look out for everyone, just those who pay them.
Whatever
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 5:45 p.m.
The right to freeload?! So, if I don't use my hard earned money to put in the pocket of the Unions then I don't have a right to better working conditions and more pay and time off? The Unions have gotten greedy and are destroying themselves while pretending they want protect everyone.
mary pequinot
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 1:29 p.m.
Actually, from what I've read, the union has to protect you and bargain for you regardless of whether you pay union dues. Non-paying members are protected by the collective bargaining of paying members. That is why it's also referred to as right to freeload.
Whatever
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:03 p.m.
I see the good that some well run unions can do for thier members and therefore on the fence. But let's not pretend that Unions are run equally and look out for everyone's best interest.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:02 p.m.
HaeJee: Your raise was 3% - your union dues right?
HaeJee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:52 p.m.
So, you're really not on the fence. I was in a union when I was paying my way through college. What was nice about it was they negotiated to get a 3% raise for employees. If we didn't have a union, it was guaranteed that they would cut wages versus giving a small raise. It you look at the method they passed the bill, that is what I have an issue with.
Pete Warburton
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:06 p.m.
Welcome to Michigan...The Alabama of the north .
sayzme
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 6:21 p.m.
Michibama
mun
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:29 p.m.
Actually, Rick wants to make Michigan like South Dakota, where Gateway was based.
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:05 p.m.
It's is the "shared responsibility" of all Michiganders to make Michigan attractive to employers. I want to thank democracy for this new law... Twice in fact.... Proposal 2 went down by 15 percentage points last month. Though, after witnessing the violence yesterday, I wonder if employers would want to come here knowing that there is such a violent and potentially undermining element in our workforce.
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 9:01 p.m.
Mars - I suppose it is "political capital". Obama won by a mere 6% and you see how he's flexing his muscle on positions he was far more moderate on just a year ago. Even with this outcome, I doubt proposal 2 would have passed. 17% of the workforce doesn't get to call the shots. We all do. It is about time they share the responsibility of changing our state because what we have done in the past isn't working out so well. How comfortable do you feel driving a car that a union worker assembled after getting stoned at lunch?? Time to let go of the "failed policies of the past" and accepted dogma of unions.
mars
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:57 p.m.
Proposal 2 went down by such a large margin because many of us (myself included) believed that it went too far and we foolishly believed that Rick Snyder was telling the truth when he said RTW was "not on his agenda". So we believed that voting no on 2 would maintain the status quo. Unfortunately, it turns out the governor was lying to us. I will not make the mistake of voting for him or his agenda again.
John S. Armbruster
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:39 p.m.
I don't seem to remember any outrage from the Unions/Democrats when the previous Governor forced thousands of people into the SEIU. Nothing like a little hypocrisy to start the day.
mun
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:48 p.m.
Welcome to Michigan. Watch for falling wages.
superhappyfunbrett
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 7:10 a.m.
@Steve: So you're saying someone who does manual labor for a living doesn't DESERVE to have a house, a car (he might have made), or be able to put his kids through school? Because it takes no real skill or effort to actually work for a living? Because the only thing that matters is whether or not you overspent for some pseudo education that is lacking in palpable application? You're only successful and meaningful if you make LESS than a UAW worker who's been with a large company for decades and spend your time complaining about how you got the short end of the stick in life? I'm just trying to get some clarification. It seems like you're suggesting some people don't deserve to be able to make a living. That the world needs only thoughts - no actions. (All thinkers, no do-ers?) But at least we'll be able to keep all our "highly skilled engineers". We can all stand around discussing different ways things might work without having anyone who can actually do them.
Unusual Suspect
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 4:25 p.m.
Red herring. Chicago is a fantastic place, regardless of anything related to this issue and will always draw people, especially young people. We have nothing to compete with Chicago. Actually, in Detroit we have the opposite of Chicago.
mun
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:32 p.m.
Yes, they're fleeing to Chicago, that right to work paradise.
Steve
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:06 p.m.
If your referring to wages of the average UAW worker at $59/hour, then yes, watch for that to fall. No degree required and making $59/hour, plus over time. Base alone that's 120K per year, which is totally reasonable since no university was required, just some community college courses and a journeyman's card. That is probably the biggest frustration with people not in UAW towards the UAW, large portion have no degrees and get paid waay too much. If you owned a small machine shop, would you pay your 8-10 workers $59/hour? You'd be out of business in a month. Now we'll be able to keep all the engineers from UM/MSU/Wayne state/WMU/Michigan tech in state with jobs, instead of them fleeing to go Texas or Chicago, bcaue businesses will have more money to expand and offer better compensation to highly skilled engineers. Do you think union workers are creating new companies that hire people? Nope...
Stevie Welles
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:44 p.m.
The most unionized place on Earth, Scandinavia, is probably collectively sitting back and laughing while we destroy ourselves. If you think unions are the problem, then you've been drinking the Koch a little too much. All of you temporarily embarrassed millionaires are hilarious. http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/
DonBee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:40 p.m.
The state handed the unions lemons. Time to make lemonaide. It should be much easier to convince people on the fence about unions in workplaces now to vote yes for unions, since they are not required to quit or join. If I were a union organizer. I would put full effort into organizing as many work places in Michigan as possible with this new tool in my belt. This would show the politicians that unions are an active force in Michigan better than anything else.
mary pequinot
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 1:27 p.m.
I totally agree with you. I am a union member, and there have been times I've been very frustrated with the lack of action. Now is the time for them to get off their tails and work at cohesion among members.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:52 p.m.
Michigan has labor laws, OSHA, Equal Employment, Minimum wage and other laws, I have worked for the same manufacturing company for 29 years I have had 3 jobs in 3 departments with "No Unions." I have stayed because I get a fare wage for my work. My compnay has done 3 wage studies over the 29 years to compare what other workers doing the same jobs are doing. In the 29 years people who do not like the wages, hours and benifits have left, I like what I get besides the location is great for me so I have stayed to me that is how I have bargained, all without paying union dues. By the way what I would of paid in union dues I have put in my 401K.
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:42 p.m.
See what I mean? There they are now.
mun
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:31 p.m.
Hey Judy, don't forget right to pay slave wages! That's what right to work results in.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:14 p.m.
HaeJee: Uions have out lived themselves. In with the new (right-to-work) and out with the old (must join to work).
HaeJee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:55 p.m.
Research why we have labor laws........ If it wasn't for unions in the first place, you wouldn't have the regulations that exist today. Thanks to unions, they increased standards for employees and gave them a united voice. They may be out of date in many ways, but we ALL have something to thank them for.
Stevie Welles
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:45 p.m.
Yes, actually. Studies have shown that states with low union density have significantly higher rates of workplace fatalities.
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:25 p.m.
And there are employees dying left and right from injuries caused by unsafe machinery, and children working in dark, sweaty shops, right? It must be, because that's what the union people tell me happens when they don't have a monopoly over a workplace.
Enso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:45 p.m.
Why do Republicans want the middle class to make less money and the wealthiest make more money?
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:08 p.m.
I have voted republican and want the middle class to make more money.... In fact, I want everyone to make more money....
Enso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:03 p.m.
What are you talking about? The median pay of both teachers and police is $55,000. No, it's not inherently bad to want to make over 100k per year. But we can't all be doctors. And we don't all WANT to be doctors.
Steve
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:03 p.m.
I'm confused, what is considered the middle class? To me anyone making over 100K/year isn't middle class. I know a lot of police officers and teachers making over 100K. Also, is it bad to want to be in the upper class? Should we not encourage kids to be doctors?
dsponini
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:59 p.m.
Now we learn that the KOCH brother and Carl Rove have been involved all along and had "laundered" $900,000 into Snyder's election campaign. Now it is payback time; Koch Brothers say jump, Snyder ask how high. So now Michigan gets the Honor of joining all the red-neck racists backwards thinking state throughout tobacco road and takes another giant leap backwards.
dsponini
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 2:12 p.m.
I can document these claims from right here on this website A2.com! The source is Reuters...what you say now? Still trying to denying Koch and DeVos bought Snyder??
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:12 p.m.
Congratulations Judy on a long and healthy career. I hope your 401k is booming.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:21 p.m.
Just for your infromation: dsponini Michigan has labor laws, OSHA, Equal Employment, Minimum wage and other laws, I have worked for the same manufacturing company for 29 years I have had 3 jobs in 3 departments with "No Unions." I have stayed because I get a fare wage for my work. My compnay has done 3 wage studies over the 29 years to compare what other workers doing the same jobs are doing. In the 29 years people who do not like the wages, hours and benifits have left, I like what I get besides the location is great for me so I have stayed to me that is how I have bargained, all without paying union dues. By the way what I would of paid in union dues I have put in my 401K.
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:33 p.m.
Can you documet your allegations from something other than a left wing blog?
4Bells
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:43 p.m.
Government of business, by business and for business - at the expense of everything, and everyone, else. Tricky business indeed................
4Bells
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 1:32 p.m.
Some balance is needed and this administration's narrow, business-only, agenda on the backs of everyone else is causing damage that they seem completely oblivious to. Government needs to take into account all of Michigan's citizens, not just one exclusive segment. When the governor and legislature alienate the majority of the electorate, how long can their extreme measures survive? When what is accomplished at any cost subsequently gets undone in the backlash, we ALL lose..................
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:15 p.m.
Thank you Steve. 4Bells doesn't seem to understand that the private sector funds the government, and that the key to a robust tax base is robust commerce by business.
Steve
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:55 p.m.
We live in a Capitalist society. There are plenty of Socialist countries that you are able to move to if you want. Long term though, expect to always pay between 40-50% in taxes to help fund retirement/healthcare/college/etc. for the masses. Because it does make sense to make sure all people get a fair shake in life, even if some rarely ever tried hard in school, or rarely ever work hard at their jobs. Yeah, we should should continue to make it incredibly impossible to remove these people from their positions. It's much better for them to hide behind union contracts and leech off of the workers that are good workers, effectively enabling them to never try harder or become better contributors to society. Your right, lets blame business for this and not the 10-20% of workers that make it difficult for everyone.
dsponini
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:17 p.m.
The blood will be on your hands governor....just remember that.
Steve
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:47 p.m.
dsponini, for your comment about the safety at factories, please explain how the union will be able to help with this in a way that OSHA or other state laws don't cover. I am not very knowledgeable on this and want to hear what it is that is done. thanks
DonBee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:44 p.m.
dsponini - If you were talking about the motocycle helmet law, I would agree. The only blood I saw on the videos was on the knuckles of several union supporters in Lansing this week.
dsponini
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:18 p.m.
no one.....yet. But factories will now not ensure workers safety in the name of the almighty dollar. We are one step closer to factory fires...just like Bangladesh. Wait and see. Company CEO's will care EVEN LESS about the workers they have, because they are now disposable...
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:41 p.m.
Blood? Who died?
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.
Stop the childish fear-baiting. We're not going back to employers beating employees with sticks, big dangerous machinery detaching appendages left and right, and children working in factories.
ekimecir
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:04 p.m.
Reading these comments reminds me of why our Congress works the way it does. Entrenched positions allow no room for compromise or mutual understanding.
clownfish
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:44 p.m.
How do we know Snyder is lying, his lips move. Remember "not on my agenda" or "there is no need for Prop 2, we are not going to become a RTW state"? Just like the Moral Majority GOP told us that the anti-gay marriage bill would not restrict domestic partner benefits, then they went to court to outlaw those. Doesn't the Bible say something about lying being bad?
Jaime
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:54 p.m.
Snyder says it is about fairness. Is it fair for a union to negotiate better wages and benefits and have employees who are not members benefit?
arborarmy
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 8:47 p.m.
I'm happy for you. Of course, it has nothing to do with freeloading non union members receiving benefits and services for which they do not pay.
StopCrying
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 5:09 p.m.
Sorry Army, I am the of "class" that does not need some long haired hippy fighting my battles for me. I work hard and I am rewarded for it, I do not get bullied in the work place and never have. I have always handled my own in that regard and I have also always been rewarded for my hard work. When I had the chance to jump ship from union to management, I did not hesitate for a second.
arborarmy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:04 p.m.
. . . because it is entirely common place to receive services without paying for them. Look, if someone doesn't, want to belong to a union, DON'T BELONG. But this legislation carves out a special class of union membership--those who, for all intents and purposes, remain in the union but who pay nothing for the services rendered. But not surprised that a certain class of commentator does not understand that simple principle.
StopCrying
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:09 p.m.
"And that is the purpose of RTW: to kill the unions by cutting the revenue needed to run them." You mean that the schmucks running the show won't continue to fight for their employees without those employees paying their salary? What a pity.
arborarmy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:43 p.m.
1) If an employee does not want to belong to a union and does not want the union negotiating for them, why would they take the job in a union shop in the first place. 2) It's not just pay and benefits. Nonmembers will benefit from all aspects of the contract: seniority, grievance, job protection, etc... The union will be required to represent them in all actions as if they were union members. So much for the guv's "baloney" that people will join unions if they find the unions offer a valued service. They will get those services that cost the union money to provide whether or not they are in the union. And that is the purpose of RTW: to kill the unions by cutting the revenue needed to run them.
DonBee
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:46 p.m.
Jaime - By law I have to accept what the union negotiates. I can't do my own deal if I am in a job covered by the union. So I will turn the question around to you. Is it fair that I can't negotiate my own deal because the union controls my pay and benefits?
StopCrying
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:26 p.m.
Is it fair that you cannot give the quality employees a raise because are they bound to the same pay scale as their union brethren that are lazy?
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.
Bogus (but ubiquitous) argument. Non-union members will not be asking the unions to negotiate for them, nor will they be expecting them to do so. They will negotiate for themselves. If the unions continue to do it regardless, that's their decision.
Gorc
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:35 p.m.
I don't understand why the union members are protesting this new legislation. Or maybe they truly don't understand how this bill is in their own benefit. This gives the rank and file the choice of not paying union dues if they feel THEIR union leadership is not willing or capable of negotiating an acceptable contract in THEIR behalf. This will make the union leadership more culpable to the rank and file because the leadership will have to prove their effectiveness. If the leadership fails at this, then the rank and file can hold them accountable with the CHOICE of not aging their dues. If the union members are happy with their leadership, they have the CHOICE to continue paying their dues.
dsponini
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 2:12 p.m.
The first three words in your post are true
Jrileyhoff
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:43 p.m.
I agree that this benefits unions. If I were negotiating on behalf of my employer, I would give the union negotiator more repsect knowing that all of the members represented by the union negotiator chose to join the union, pay dues, and have this person speak on their behalf.
Gorc
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:38 p.m.
Sorry...paying their dues. Not aging their dues.
Topher
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 10:57 a.m.
God, I just can't wait to start my for-profit University of Phoenix-style online school. It's really happening now! I am going to make so much money off of poor and middle class youth. My goal is to make enough money to chum it up with DeVos, the Koch brothers, Snyder, and Weiser in a slumber party sleepover where our sheets are made of 1000 dollar bills stitched together with the fine hair of uneducated children (maybe I will "teach" an online class in non-unionized factory work for kids).
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:55 p.m.
Good luck!
Mark
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:14 p.m.
Sarcasm is lost on the humorless GOP supporters.
notyou
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:38 p.m.
or..Or...or... you could just be happy you have a job at the U of M....
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:31 p.m.
There it is. I knew there had to be another Koch Brothers comment out there somewhere.
5c0++ H4d13y
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 10:02 a.m.
Looking like running the "angry mayor" and pushing 2 was a political miscalculation. I'm sure dem's wont see it as such though.
sayzme
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 6:15 p.m.
If prop 2 had anything to do with this..you are just reaffirming that this was Snyder's REVENGE politics. A way to divide the state/country even further
B2Pilot
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:32 p.m.
Clown did you not do any reading of issues before the last election? Did you not see the Unions vote NO on 1 YES on all the rest campaign????
clownfish
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:46 p.m.
What does Prop 2 have to do with this new law? Nothing.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:19 a.m.
The UAW's Bob King did this by overreaching and trying to change the constitution. You rolled the dice... and you lost.
TruBlue
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 2:07 a.m.
The way Prop 2 was defeated by a wide margin shows there is little support to bolster unions in this state.
Mike K
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 6:23 p.m.
Clownfish - it's called "political capital". Obama won by 6 points and you see the hard line he is taking which differs vastly from previous positions? Proposal 2 went down by 15 points....... I am not a proponent of the idea of "political capital", but then again, I am not a politician.
bobslowson
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:36 p.m.
Nothing like that good 'ol revenge politics.....at the expense of the citizens.
bobslowson
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:21 p.m.
But it's perfectly fine to change the constitution to suit religious ideology? Marriage one man, one woman...it's great to change the constitution when it serves your purpose.
clownfish
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:47 p.m.
How does a FAILED Prop 2 cause a lying governor to suddenly find his Agenda?
Benjammin
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:31 a.m.
Exactly - it is Prop 2 that kicked the hornet's nest and put this issue into the legislative agenda.
Pika
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:12 a.m.
I wonder if Synder realizes he's just signed a declaration of war? This is the nuclear option Rick and now it is your baby. Congratulations, this is now your legacy. Anybody who was naive enough to trust that this guy was a "moderate" should realize their error as of now.
sayzme
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 6:23 p.m.
Yes, this is a declaration of war. Just like the conservatives I'm stocking up on ammo and guns now
dsponini
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 8:51 p.m.
I'm not in a union and I probably never will be, but I support them 110% Yes, this is a war on citizens rights, restricting abortion, denying medical care based on your ideology is total B.S. Snyder didn't want to divide and conquer..but that is exactly what he's doing. I see civil war in our future. We are doomed to repeat history.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:08 p.m.
Is this how union members "think" a declaration of war? Really that is the kind of tactics uions use on people who do not want to join. I am glad I work for a company without a union.
clownfish
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:48 p.m.
I voted for him, and I will now NEVER vote for a MI GOP candidate.
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:51 a.m.
So just what are you qualified to do after your union official job is not needed? Shakedown man for the mob?
TommyJ
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:13 a.m.
Isn't that the same job?
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:45 a.m.
Wow, you can tell the union thugs have made it home from their temper tantrum in Lansing. Sorry losers but Right to Work is now Law! Guess you need to pack up and head to a state that endorses compulsory thuggery.
mun
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 7:44 p.m.
"Sorry losers but Right to Work is now Law! " And that's why Michigan voted for Mitt Romney on November 6 and ....oh wait a minute, nevermind!
motorcycleminer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:27 a.m.
Interesting to note how many " Michigan workers ' had on Wisconson caps....
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:42 a.m.
Come on, libs, it's been at least 40 minutes since the last Koch Brothers comment. Somebody's not doing their job!
dsponini
Thu, Dec 13, 2012 : 8:52 p.m.
freedom connector dot com called...they need one more hateful bagger online ASAP...hop to it...Karl Rove gave the order!
Krupper1
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:25 a.m.
They are waiting on instructions from George Soros. . .
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:38 a.m.
So Skyline had an abundance of "educators" that skipped out on their obligations today to cozy up to the uneducated shop rats. Fire them all!
Oldmaniac
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:38 a.m.
I totally support my right to work for a company without having to join a union. Don't shut me out.
Max
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:48 a.m.
You always have and always will have that right... nobody forces you to join a union. You will have to share the cost for having a well-paying job, but that seems only fair, doesn´t it?
brian
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:30 a.m.
I will never join a union again. Years ago I worked at a fabrication shop, 20 employees. When we had a problem and needed the union the Teamsters didn't help us at all. All they did was take my money. So all I have to say to unions is ha ha.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:44 p.m.
Amen Brian! When "All Union Members" are treated the same who pay the same amount in dues than I would not mine paying union dues but the TEAMS do not treat "All Union Members" the same as was said in my husbands union meeting, "Seniority means everything, sit down." He was working one day or less a week while his borther union members worked 60 plus hours a week but he paid the same monthly dues. Yes, he quit because the dues in 2010 were more in one month than he made in some weeks.
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:13 a.m.
The Koch Brothers are circling Lansing in their black helicopters as we speak.
TommyJ
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:11 a.m.
Thank God for Governor Snyder!
aareader
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:10 a.m.
It should be noted again and again unions did not start because there was nothing better to do that day. Too bad history will have to repeat itself and many workers will suffer again to prove why unions are needed. Time will show why unions did start and what they have accomplished. As many have noted through history "We either hang together or hang separately"
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:08 a.m.
I have never been a union guy, but if I took a job where I had to join a union and pay dues out of my pocket, yes, I would have a problem with that. Whatever hapeend to the constitutional concepts of freedom of choice, right to privacy, or freedom of expression?
towncryer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:50 p.m.
kitten2: how you cannot see the flaw in your argument is beyond me..
kitten2
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:29 p.m.
"Freedom of choice" - choose not to take the job then.
Watcher
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:31 a.m.
Snyder is gutless. He said the motorcycle helmet issue wasn't on "his agenda." But we now have people on open machines with heads exposed to the pavement. Compare that to people in secure vehicles being ticket for not wearing seat-belts. And now the gutless wonder signs another piece of legislation that was not on "his agenda." No guts, no glory. He is destined for the political trash heap.
bobslowson
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:23 p.m.
When ideology is on the line....the Koch brothers are always buying puppets to suit their needs. Snyder is their puppet....as well as DeVos's puppet. They donated 900K to get Snyder elected...you didn't think all their money was gonna go to waste?
genetracy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:10 a.m.
I had no idea the idea the Koch Brothers have lurking around Michigan, wreaking havoc.
Laurie Burg
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:52 a.m.
Yes, but his Koch masters will be pleased and will have rewarded him well. I don't think he will care.
Elena
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:20 a.m.
Snyder has been such a disappointment.
notyou
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:51 a.m.
I agree this took far too long to get done!
superhappyfunbrett
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:14 a.m.
This will create jobs. Everything politicians do creates jobs, right? So any minute now, Michigan will be rolling in jobs! Success! Shhh... Don't ask what kind of jobs they will be, or if they will give livable wages/benefits. Questions will just hurt your head. Just go with it. Or, you know, leave the state completely. But people aren't leaving the state... are they? (They will miss all this fun!)
superhappyfunbrett
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 6:48 a.m.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law @MARK: This has nothing to do with jobs. It has to do with political power, and both sides tugging on different ends of same rope. Except workers are the ones who end up with mud in their face. What "has been going up to now" in recent times hasn't worked - but neither will this. Because everything in recent times has been that which involves the erosion of working class. (Be it Unions selfishly collecting dues without helping their members, or anti-Union folk hoping to force down labor costs by minimizing wages as low as possible, despite cost of living rising exponentially - faster than ever before.) My sarcastic comment was heartfelt and was meant to basically say: Don't believe the hype. If what we have been doing recently hasn't worked, do you really think this is going to be much better? Is this truly going to stop the rapid population loss Michigan has been experiencing for the past decade? You're right in that we're going to have to wait and see. I understand that. But the odds of this all shaking down as a positive for our economy is extremely slim. I'd have to think there were/are much much better alternatives to come up with. (Other than trying to simply destroy Unions completely in hopes to drive working class down to poverty wages and eliminate those helping your political enemies.)
towncryer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:53 p.m.
MARK: didn't you get the memo? The times only change when it suits their agenda, according to them, sweatshops will be setting up in five..four...three..
MARK
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:49 a.m.
What has been going on up to now has not worked. No great flood of jobs coming into Michigan. Unions were great and needed in the '30's. Times change . Maybe this paradigm changed. Lots more federal protection for workers now than in the 1930's. You don't need a buggy whip anymore but they once were essential. Maybe the current incarnation of the unions is no longer essential. Maybe this will make unions more responsive to their members. Start your own business ,take on the risk and you might succeed beyond your wildest dreams with out the union. Then you can do well by doing well by your employees.
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:02 a.m.
The last poll by Michigan Information and Research Science showed that about 20% of the electorate in Michigan are for RTW. Looks like the Republikans are taking some things from the Fascist play book.
motorcycleminer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:22 a.m.
Minor mistatement its the democratic play book not fascist ...when the master gets bit by his own dog it hurts worse...
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:46 a.m.
Excellent!
Local Cat
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:40 a.m.
I voted for this bonehead and I'm a union man. I thought he would run the state like an honest business man and not a greedy liar one. I guess i have to go back to a straight Democrat ticket from now on.
Mark
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.
Hmm, ex-CEO of a company that shed jobs. He was a Trojan Horse. Now go punch yourself in the face for thinking that he was worthy of your vote.
notyou
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:50 a.m.
You can pick up your official 2014 blinders at any union meeting. They hand them out at the door!
Pika
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:15 a.m.
Really not to belabor the point but couldn't you see through this guy from the beginning? I mean really, the guy is a total slime.
Michael Bow
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:51 a.m.
Right, you voted for him. Guess he'll just have to miss your vote then. The dude that got the auto industry back is now Mr. Evil. .... wait a second, Obama took all the credit for that one!
peachy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:37 a.m.
Wish Obama would tell Snyder no bridge now that he signed this bill. Hope his next two years are his last 2.
Dave Koziol
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:49 p.m.
Way to wish for cutting off our nose to spite our face. How about if we try to work together instead
5c0++ H4d13y
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 10:01 a.m.
Which ironically would hurt the auto industry and unions.
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:41 a.m.
Deep thoughts there peachy. This is the BEST thing to happen in this state in many years!
Stephen Landes
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:41 a.m.
This is a state issue. Obama should keep his nose out of it.
st.julian
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:35 a.m.
We have the best legislature that conservative billionaires can buy. It's evidently not that expensive.
bobslowson
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:24 p.m.
It cost 900k to buy Snyder's election
a2edu
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:45 a.m.
As a taxpayer and a unionized employee, I have mixed feelings about this. First, let's just call out the Republican & Snyder B.S. - this in not pro worker, this is political. And any trust I had in Snyder protecting all Michigan citizens from an over-reaching legislature is now completely evaporated. But you have to hand it to them, it's a pretty shrewd and opportunistic move on their part. (Look, if they say it's a pro-worker piece of legislation enough times, people start to believe it, so yes, we (the public) really are that dumb in a sense.) Having said as much, however, I do now feel as if my union will now perhaps have to be more responsive to ordinary worker concerns. There have been many times I've wanted to withhold dues because of the indifference of union leaders who ignored our concerns for whatever reason. We'll see if Dingle is correct when he states that the Republicans have "kicked a hornets nest." I don't know if he's right. This state confuses me in that it voted overwhelmingly for Obama and Democratic US Senators, but yet it has a Republican super majority in both the State Senate and the House AND the Governorship.
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:43 a.m.
The Democrats won new seats in the legislature in the last election. That's why the Republikans used the Lame Duck legislature to enact a ton of new laws against women and unions. Republican Gerrymandering will restrict fair elections until the next census but 2014 should be ugly for those in power. Plus the Ricksters new taxes on us will kick in which will antagonize all but the rich. 2014 is coming.
bigblue
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:26 a.m.
Any rube who thinks the right wing is pushing RTW as some sort of workers right agenda is going to get what they have coming to them.
Michigan Man
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:24 a.m.
Really hope that Mark Ouimet voted in favor of this legislation - I suspect he did! Nice way to bid adieu to the Michigan legislature!
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:47 a.m.
You can bet he did, now he can go to work for the Koch brothers in all his 1% glory.
Ivor Ivorsen
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:40 a.m.
"Nice way to bid adieu to the Michigan legislature" ... from which his Teaparty butt has been properly kicked out of by Michigan voters! Michigan Man: the Tea Party and its agenda is killing the Republic party nationally. These gerrymandered districts are great at producing one right-wing kook after another for state offices--but are terrible for producing viable candidates that must appeal to a broader electorate. The right wing rhetoric about "socialists" and "union thugs" (and Fox News induced delusion) led the party to political disaster in November.
jusayin
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:18 a.m.
Orwellian - his comment that this is actually "pro worker" Does he really believe we are all that dumb?? Unions = higher wages - better bennies - nicer house - more income to spend at the local stores - better neighborhoods - ALL by virtue of a higher standard of living. It goes on and on, but can be summed up by looking at the difference between us and countries that have little workers rights. This is America that these policies are destroying. Don't be fooled by the big money talking points and the republican anti- worker agenda in disguise!
1bit
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:54 a.m.
Diagenes: Chrysler's bankruptcy had nothing to do with unions. Both were failures of management and design. Really, there is factual information that exists when you want to make analogies. The first "bankruptcy" was not even a bankruptcy, it was loan guarantees Iacocca used to turn the company around. They then prospered, inventing the minivan segment, until management sold the company to Daimler which then gutted them. The investment group that bought them was incapable of bringing them back, but Fiat's management looks better.
Diagenes
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:04 a.m.
If unions are so beneficial then why did Chrysler go bankrupt twice and was sold to fiat and GM went bankrupt and closed hundreds of non union dealerships.
Basic Bob
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:20 a.m.
Unions gave me none of those things, except for neighbors who lost their jobs, quit paying their mortgages, abandoned their houses, and left for a job - any job - in the South.
Get over it
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:27 a.m.
It's been great for Detroit the birth place of unions
Superior Twp voter
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:08 a.m.
Obama's union supporters demonstrated their extreme collective class behavior today in Lansing. Now more threats. Such class.
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:50 a.m.
Sounds like you think the Republicans won the election. Pull your head out of the sand and Google national election results!
Salinemary
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:05 a.m.
Whatever happened to working together and compromising? We'll never get anything done on a state or national level at this rate. Why can't we find common ground anymore?
towncryer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:59 p.m.
Oh please. You all are for working together and compromising when you get your way!
1bit
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:45 a.m.
Benjamin: This has been a commonly repeated statement, but is misleading and a false equivalency. I voted against prop 2. I thought it was a bad idea to change the constitution and it was needless as I had taken Governor Snyder at his word that this was not on his agenda. This right to work law was not something I had a chance to vote upon. If Republicans, and particularly Governor Snyder, had told the public that if prop 2 fails we plan on passing a right to work law then I'm not sure that prop 2 would have failed. And I don't think it will fail in its next form as the Governor has just spent the last of his credibility. These types of political maneuvers backfire. One side always blames the other for their own overreach. It's childish and it's the same old same old. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this only galvanizes the fringes of each party. Those of us, the majority, who are in the center are the ones who pay the price.
Benjammin
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:27 a.m.
I think the union efforts to bring prop 2 to the voters and bypass Lansing is what generated this hornet's nest. I am all for compromise but it is interesting to see calls for compromise after the prop 2 efforts were defeated, not before.
1bit
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:44 a.m.
I think you are spot on, Salinemary. This poisons the well. For those of us in the center, this bill is basically a wet blanket on getting anything accomplished in a bipartisan manner for the rest of Snyder's term. There are important things to get done in our State and this bill was certainly not worth what the resulting acrimony, lawsuits, recall attempts and new constitutional amendments it will inspire.
Basic Bob
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:18 a.m.
Fortunately it's not embedded in the constitution. If you can convince enough voters in West Michigan that they are electing the wrong representatives, it can be changed back rather easily.
cinnabar7071
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:49 a.m.
What do you mean, we just got something big done.
motorcycleminer
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:54 p.m.
Boy do they howl when the good guys play their own game....
hepcat
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:45 p.m.
Rick Snyder did a good job........of keeping a straight face when he said; " This is not anti-union."
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:46 a.m.
Carlton? Fresh Prince? No wonder you can't survive on your own merits!
greg, too
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:12 a.m.
And then he did the dance Carlton from the Fresh Prince used to do as he walked off stage....
aslick
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:35 p.m.
I don't get it. 1) This does not ban union existence 2) This only says unions cannot force workers in represented jobs to pay dues 3) If the union is so great, people will pay to ensure the union exists and has power to bargain 4) If union employees don't pay their dues and the union dissolves because of this, it is their own damn fault Call me stupid, but I really don't get what the big deal is. Seems to me like a lot of the protesters realize that a majority of the folks in the union do not like it and will stop paying dues. Without dues the union will eventually fall apart. If the union falls apart because its members fail to pay, that is the fault of the union and not the governor. Moving onward to more important news now; how about another article about Blimpy Burger closing?
Stevie Welles
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:35 p.m.
You're right. You don't get it.
notyou
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:47 a.m.
Poor Blimpy...
Diagenes
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3 a.m.
This lawwill make unions more resposive to workers. Non dues paying workers will not be able to vote in union elections or use a committee man for help with a work related issue.
1bit
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:41 a.m.
Here's the problem: you get union benefits without paying the union dues. A real right-to-work law, where you had the choice to be completely on your own or in the union, would make sense. The bill as written is not providing that and is basically an attempt to defund unions. It's political theatre.
Basic Bob
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:15 a.m.
Now the unions will have to answer the question "what do I get for paying my union dues" that some members ask. It's not a trick question.
Linda Peck
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:31 p.m.
I am happy about this. Now, let's see how this works down the road, as the proof is, you know, in the pudding.
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:53 a.m.
It works great in Mississippi! Just look at that vibrant economy!
greg, too
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:10 a.m.
And you are aware that they pretty much made this impossible to overturn by adding appropriations bills into it. That kind of shadiness just shows you that they knew this was unwanted and they did it anyway. And then protected it by adding a nice poison pill that locks it into law.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:08 a.m.
From a statistical perspective, because the RTW states don't include the states with the highest costs of living and the most entrenched Democratic leadership, simply adding up the salaries is a rather silly way to make a comparison. At least silly from a meaningful perspective. Good for one-sided rhetoric, if that's what you're aiming for.
Get over it
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:53 p.m.
The amount of the union dues
sh1
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:47 p.m.
Or, the proof is in all the states that have gone RTW before us. Union and non-union workers all make about $2000 less per year.
Get over it
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:28 p.m.
Thank you for trying to help Mich. and not just yourself like so many others
sayzme
Fri, Dec 14, 2012 : 6:21 p.m.
Helping Michigan? You have no clue what's coming...
Ivor Ivorsen
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:24 p.m.
It's so reassuring that Michigan workers have the Koch brothers and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) looking out for their "freedom". Yes, truly a "major day in Michigan's history"
Unusual Suspect
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:38 a.m.
Ivor, you forgot to throw something about Fox News in that comment.
leaguebus
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:30 a.m.
If RTW was so great, all the states who have RTW laws would be the most prosperous in the country. We all know Alabama and Mississippi are hugely prosperous, don't we. Thanks Rick, we can be the Mississippi of the north. Thanks, too to the billionaire Koch brothers. When the Rickster and his band of clowns get run out of Michigan, they can go onto the Koch payroll. Long live government by and for the 1%.
Superior Twp voter
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:02 a.m.
Much better, if true, than George Soros' puppet in DC.
Subroutine
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:20 p.m.
Good. Now will all you union folks stop protesting and get back to work, you know, like the rest of us that get fired if we skip work to go to a protest.
Subroutine
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 8:28 p.m.
A lot of great replies here. @sh1, you don't get fired for exercising your first amendment rights, you get fired for suddenly bailing on your job responsibilities for a non-critical personal reason. Jobs are a responsibility, not an entitlement. And no, I wouldn't really get fired for that, but I might lose the respect I've gained from my employers by trying to be a dedicated employee. I think it's interesting that my original post is after almost a day still floating around a zero rating. I think if I was way off base it would be far to the negative by now. It tells me that opinions are fairly split on this issue. And @Dirtgrain, people almost never get fired from my place of employment.
Judy
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:13 p.m.
I agree, if I am one minute late 3 times in 6 months with out an aapproved 24 hour notice the company calls it "firing yourself." It can be done I have 29 years with my company!
towncryer
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:03 p.m.
"the union would protect you from bullying" Oxymoron anyone???
sh1
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:15 p.m.
@Michael, do you really want things to be the way you describe? That practicing the freedom you've been given by the first amendment would be met with being fired and threatened with a club? A union would protect you from that kind of bullying.
notyou
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 5:45 a.m.
I'm Joining Subroutine's Union...
J Matt Shelden
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 4:22 a.m.
Michael Bow...Thank you for taking those words out of my mouth.
Michael Bow
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:47 a.m.
Greg too, I hope that these dedicated teachers who left classrooms empty do decide to leave the state. Maybe we'll get people who actually care about our children and can be paid based on their hard work and effectiveness instead of a union contract. But, I doubt any of these people will leave, they're still in pampered jobs, and if they all love their union as much as they claim, then they'll all continue to pay the union fees.
Michael Bow
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:44 a.m.
I love it, people on this blog don't think the rest of us would be fired for calling in sick to attend a protest. My boss wouldn't even have to say "your fired." My door key would just stop working and security would great me with a club. The rest of us reality workers don't have 40 sick days in a 200 work day year, the rest us us get fired for lying.
greg, too
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:09 a.m.
Nah, they're just gonna move. Teachers will leave for not right to work states or ones that pay more, factory workers will bail for places with stronger unions, and the rest will just wait until they can leave. But on the flip side, it will lower the unemployment rate as their will be jobs opening up and no one moving here to take them. If that was Snyder's plan to lower unemployment, the congrats.
Dirtgrain
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 12:50 a.m.
Subroutine, how often do people get fired at your job?
Subroutine
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:59 p.m.
@mgoscottie , I suppose It's kind of obnoxious from a different point of view from mine but it's certainly not hurtful, or at least not meant to be. But I am still awesome, even without paying dues to an overpaid and overpowered committee strong-arming someone else into conceding that I am.
sh1
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:46 p.m.
That's the world you want to live in? People being fired because they can't even miss one day for attending a protest?
mgoscottie
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:44 p.m.
Just trying to point out how obnoxious and hurtful your comment is.....I'll try being more direct next time....
Subroutine
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:43 p.m.
@mgoscottie , Who told you I was awesome? I thought that was a secret ;)
mgoscottie
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:32 p.m.
What is it that you do that makes you so awesome?
Nicholas Urfe
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:18 p.m.
Remember the Hostess story, and how they tried to blame the death of the Twinky those nasty unions? It was executives looting the company, and robbing pensions: http://www.politicususa.com/betrayal-remedy-hostess-pensions-fund-bankruptcy.html
Boo Radley
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 11:38 a.m.
I don't know anything about the separate bread/cupcake truck issue, but if it is true it would have to be a contractual bargaining item that Hostess agreed to. Unions don't just make up rules, they bargain for issues that are important to them. Often giving up some other economic item to get what they are asking for. Criticizing the unions for the "two truck" rule does not tell the story of how they got to that in their contract.
Ricardo Queso
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 3:35 a.m.
Bums! Have confidence in your own abilities and do not depend on an organized crime thug to represent you!
MARK
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 2:40 a.m.
It also had to do with union work rule that said bread and cake had to be in separate trucks instead of the same truck . This created 2 jobs when only one was needed.
greg, too
Wed, Dec 12, 2012 : 1:06 a.m.
As with most stories, there is enough blame to go around. The big wigs leveraged the company on shady day trading hedge funds and raided everything, including the pension, to pay the bills and their own bonuses. It really could be a class on corporate greed bringing down a company. At the same time, the union so screwed this up with their self serving contracts that made it hard to run a profitable business, even if you weren't skimming off of the top. But to say that it was all the unions fault is failing to look at a good deal of the problems that led to the downfall of the company.
B2Pilot
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:46 p.m.
I think it goes a little deeper than that; what about teamsters not allowing bread trucks to carry cupcakes? They had to send 2 trucks to the same store. Not real efficient and having to pay 2 employees to do the same job Like I said it goes much deeper than the boss took the money
Subroutine
Tue, Dec 11, 2012 : 11:27 p.m.
Yes, because politicususa.com is certainly a non-biased news outlet.