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Posted on Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 5:59 a.m.

'We are going to kill the enemy'

By Juliana Keeping

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The sun had not yet chased away the damp morning chill as the soldiers stood in the sandy soil, some chewing and spitting tobacco, others staring and yawning, amid camouflage rucksacks and helmets and a clingy mist that hugged the sparsely wooded clearing around them.

The Sept. 24 annual training exercise at Camp Grayling in northern Michigan was the last one the soldiers would have in the state. A few days later, the Michigan Army National Guard soldiers mobilized as active duty soldiers for an upcoming deployment to Afghanistan, beginning another 3 months of training at Camp Shelby in Mississippi and Fort Irwin in California.

Today, Oct. 7, marks the 10-year anniversary of the Central Asian conflict. It’s the longest war in U.S. history.

On this recent September morning, three beige Humvees rumble, parked across a thin sandy road the soldiers face. The bleary-eyed soldiers stand in a few clusters, facing the vehicles, waiting. Coughs punctuate the labored hum of the engines. They blame the throat clearing on a sudden uptick in colds, which they universally blame on flu shots issued by the Army. The store at the training camp is out of Nyquil and most other cold medicines are running low.

The attention of the group turns to specialist Brandon Smith, 23, of Chicago, whose eyes are welling up with tears. He lays a hand on his stomach, frowns and appears weak in the knees. The men start to laugh. Smith has nestled a thick wad of tobacco in between his lip and gum.

“Don’t swallow it,” one of the soldiers chides. Smith weathers the tobacco and the derision.

Specialist Smith’s job on a forthcoming deployment to Afghanistan is to serve as a grenadier on a team commanded by Sgt. Drew Cummings, 25, of Milan.

Viking's War

AnnArbor.com is outfitting several Viking Battalion soldiers with audio and video equipment, enabling them to create dispatches to document for roughly one year what the longest war in history sounds, feels and looks like from the ground. Two soldiers' wives will share their experiences from home, too.

AnnArbor.com is calling the project Viking’s War. It's supported by a grant from the George Polk program at Long Island University.

It's named for the Michigan Army National Guard’s 1st Battalion, 125th Infantry Regiment. Its call sign is the “Viking Battalion.”

You can follow the reports on AnnArbor.com, as well as Facebook and Twitter

Read our past coverage here:
“At night, you’re not really supposed to smoke because a sniper will cap you in the face,” Cummings explains when asked why almost half of the men in the squad chew tobacco. It’s also a habit born of boredom. Adding to the allure is that some of their wives ban the practice at home.

A few dozen National Guard soldiers who came to Camp Grayling for the two-week annual training dropped out on account of weak hearts or broken bodies or other problems. They have been determined "medically non-deployable."

Cummings and Smith are part of Bravo Company, one of six companies in the Michigan Army National Guard's 800-member 1st Battalion, 125th Infantry Regiment. The combat unit’s call sign is the Viking Battalion. Within each company are several platoons, and the platoon to which Cummings and Smith belong is commanded by Lt. Neil Gikas, 26, of Pittsfield Township.

Within each platoon are squads and within squads, teams. The current shortage of soldiers means Gikas’ platoon numbers in the mid-30s when it should top 40. For Cummings, that means his team is short a gunner for this training exercise, the position trained to operate weapons. Another Bravo Company soldier fills in.

The gunner will be added to the team later, either from a reorganization within the battalion or from units elsewhere.

Attention turns from Smith’s tussle with the tobacco wad to Sgt. Anthony Hubert, a union machinist in his civilian life with a 3-year-old daughter, 10 month-old son and a wife in Owosso. Hubert is in charge of the squad and explains the morning’s exercise. On his neck is a tribal design overlaid with a Detroit ‘D.’ Tattoos are a family thing, he says, but the public placement of the ‘D’ kept him out of the regular Armed Forces. He joined the Army National Guard, which tolerated his inked Detroit pride.

“We’re going to take direct fire,” he tells the men.

“We’re going to take casualties,” he adds. “They’re built into the exercise.”

Cummings comes to life and starts barking advice at the greenest members of the six-person squad, Douglas Astbury and William Wheeler, both 20, privates, gunners and never deployed.

“Have your head on a swivel,” he tells them. “If comms (radio communications) go down you are our source. ”

The pair better yell down the hatch, Cummings said. "Gunners gotta yell."

He gets more insistent: "As you’re shouting ... yell with everything in you.”

Like Hubert, Cummings and others in the squad deployed with the same group of soldiers to Ramadi, Iraq in 2008, where they guarded a government center in Al Anbar province. Most of them never fired their weapons.

Smith’s war story is different. As a sniper with the Illinois National Guard on a 2008-2009 deployment to Afghanistan, he was stationed at a remote combat outpost, where the soldiers cooked their own food, made their own outhouses he says.

He doesn’t want to go into detail about combat during the deployment.

“That’s another story,” he said. Part of the reason he doesn’t like to talk about firing his weapon is that some soldiers he encountered in Afghanistan fire their weapons in “sham” scenarios at war, just to say they did, to get a patch to wear that says they did. It’s not that way with him, he says. He doesn’t want to say more.

A tattoo that peeks above his collar says in flowing script: “Only God can judge me.” He’s lost count of his tattoos. “Under this shirt,” he says, “I’m one big ... tattoo.”

Smith’s dream is to join the Army’s Special Forces, an idea he got after viewing a documentary at 12. The Chicagoan heard about this deployment from Illinois and jumped on board; deployments will beef up his Special Forces plan, he says. He plans to quit his brand new chewing tobacco habit after he gets back to get clean and healthy for the new goal.

The upcoming exercise is supposed to simulate scenarios the soldiers might encounter on roads in Afghanistan and fine tune standard procedures in place — like what to do when the squadron takes indirect fire while on patrol, how to recover a soldier who has been killed and what to do if a truck breaks down, Hubert says.

The men task Wheeler and Astbury with loading up on ammunition — blanks, for this exercise — with a few more expletive-laced orders.

Astbury dropped out of Saginaw Valley State University and joined the National Guard in January 2010, a plan he made with his best friend. Ten months later, his friend Bradley Rappuhn, 24, “got blown up in Afghanistan” while breaching a door of a bunker. Astbury wears a silver bracelet in Rappuhn’s honor.

Wheeler lost 80 pounds to join the National Guard. Unlike some of his fellow soldiers, including Astbury, he chews gum, not tobacco, because, he said, it calms his nerves. He has been helping out with the family carpet cleaning business but wants to go to college after the deployment, he said.

Wheeler and Astbury say almost nothing besides “Yes sergeant” to either Cummings or Hubert during the training exercise.

“We’ve all been there,” Hubert later explains, about the rough treatment of the young soldiers. Still, intermingled with a steady stream of derision is the occasional word of encouragement, also peppered with a few expletives.

The men load themselves and their weapons into two Humvees.

A sergeant from another squad within Bravo Company chides Sgt. Hubert for his stress level before the exercise, which Hubert and his men ignore.

“Look at him. We’re not even at war and he’s ... stressed out,” the soldier says.

Three Humvees rumble off out of the clearing on a sandy road.

A boom in the distance has the men on edge as the column of Humvees pulls up to a crossroads in the woods.

Male soldiers clad in long robes play male and female Afghan citizens.

Wheeler, one of the new soldiers, exits his truck and begins to question one of the pretend Afghans who hints he may have information about Taliban activity in the area.

Another approaches the rear of the convoy, and the soldiers order him to “lift up your shirt” and to stop. The "citizen" doesn’t follow directions and is detained for questioning.

Then a pickup truck rolls up, slowly.

Another boom sounds, somewhere in the distance.

The point of the exercise is to learn to “control chaos,” Cummings said beforehand.

But today, chaos gets the better of them. Things fall apart as simulated bullets rain down on the convoy.

Hubert runs to a Humvee commanded by Specialist Jon Webb and gets in his driver’s face, using expletives to punctuate his orders to pay attention: “I’m going to pull you out of this ... vehicle if you don’t."

Webb, 30, like Cummings and Hubert, deployed together with the Viking Battalion to Ramadi in 2008. At home in St. Clair he has a wife and a job as a department manager of appliances and kitchens at Lowe’s. He joined the National Guard to keep up with three brothers and contribute something to the war effort. Two of his brothers will be deployed at the same time as he. “I know I can do my part,” he said.

During the exercise, Webb is told he’s been shot and lies on the ground, playing dead. The men drag him through the dirt and load him into a Humvee.

Smith-helps-Webb.jpg

Specialist Brandon Smith, 23, helps to drag Specialist Jon Webb, 30, into a Humvee during a combat training exercise at Camp Grayling in northern Michigan on Sept. 24.

In the meantime, Wheeler’s prisoner tries to get inside his head, writing “Boom!” and “Bang!” in the dirt.

The detained "Afghan" who had approached the convoy earlier was found to be unarmed and is told to kneel at the roadside with his hands on his head. Capt. Alex Gualdoni plays the part. The 27-year-old from Marquette is the leader of Bravo Company.

As the bullets pop, Gualdoni takes off running through a field.

Astbury appears to shoot him in the back with a few bursts from his gun in the turret.

Gikas, the platoon leader, is observing it all and feverishly taking notes. He sighs and shakes his head.

“No, you don’t shoot a person in the back who’s unarmed.” The move would result in murder charges. Later, Astbury speaks up to defend himself; he did not shoot the detained citizen, he fired warning shots in his direction.

With the chaos exploding, the men cut their losses. Their Humvees kick up soft soil as they chug off down the road.

Back at the clearing, the men hear a critique from Gikas and a military trainer involved in the exercise. They have a lot to talk about.

The soldiers told the driver of the truck to turn off his engine, but they didn't follow through on the order. Windows in the Humvees were left open, which could have led to shrapnel wounds.

Counter Intelligence Specialist Thomas Carver played the role of Wheeler’s prisoner.

“He should have laid down on me and shoved my face in the dirt,” when the mortars started exploding, Carver said.

Carver, who has not been deployed, admitted that it’s easy to judge the soldiers and point out their mistakes from the sidelines. Rooting out the enemy, the exercise showed, is difficult and inexact.

The members of the squad have three months to train together for their deployment to the war that spun out of the 9/11 terror attacks. The Central Asian conflict is both winding down and becoming increasingly dangerous. August 2011 marked the deadliest month for U.S. soldiers since the start of the war on Oct. 7, 2001. Civilian deaths hit record numbers in 2010.

International forces are pulling out of the country in 2014. Privately, some Viking Battalion soldiers wondered what would motivate Afghan citizens to work with them on a counterinsurgency effort, or at all, in light of this.

At an invocation for Bravo Company at the going-away ceremony near Saginaw two days later, on Sept. 26, Steve Gualdoni, the captain’s father, told the men they are “headed to a far-off land to bring order to chaos and peace to a country torn by terror and strife.”

Cummings sees it differently

“We are going to kill the enemy,” he said. “That’s our job.”

This series is funded by George Polk grant affiliated with the George Polk Awards program at Long Island University.

Juliana Keeping covers general assignment and health and the environment for AnnArbor.com. Follow Viking's War on Facebook and Twitter

Reach her at julianakeeping@annarbor.com or 734-623-2528. Follow Juliana Keeping on Twitter

Comments

Chippewa 5

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 5 p.m.

This article is good at covering a snap-shot in time over a deployment cycle, much how a morning interview at any football spring training camp will give you an introduction to a pre-season team. You see the freshmen, nervous and missing plays. You see the seniors, caring about the team's legacy and impatient to see the new players quickly get to speed. If this were a book, it's an opening sentence. While I appreciate Juliana sharing her time and writing skill with the hard slogging gun slingers of Bravo, it's too brief an introduction. As a reader, as a fan of these guys, being from Michigan myself, and knowing some of them personally, I'd like to see the story continue. They're patriots. They carry on a tradition of service to our country, a necessary service, that is answered by a chosen few of the population. Being in uniform and deployed myself, I can tell you that no one prays for peace more than the person whose shoulders bear the burden of war, to include the families left behind. We were not at war when the towers came down, war was pushed on us. It's unfortunate that the world can't resolve their differences peacefully, I'm sure there's more than a few of us who wouldn't mind being out of a job for that reason. Until that becomes a reality, there is a need for what we're doing, and a huge amount of respect owed to these troopers of the Wolverine State. They're taking the fight to those who started it. This is America's warrior caste. To quote George Orwell, "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." The key take-away in this quote is that of deterrence. We didn't ask for this fight, but we're going to pick up the tools of our profession and put the enemy's head on a pike. When others who would do our country harm pass by and see this grim totem, I hope they'll think twice. Maybe then will the scars I've suffered be spared from my children...and yours.

Juliana Keeping

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.

Hi Chippewa 5. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This story is a tiny piece of a big picture; I'll be covering these individuals for a year or more. The Army has given me a unique opportunity to write a series that shows how the soldiers and their families may change over time. Part of the future coverage plan includes shedding light on the wide range of the activities they're trained to do. Follow along here at the .com as well as <a href="http://www.facebook.com/vikingswar" rel='nofollow'>http://www.facebook.com/vikingswar</a>. You can also catch us on Twitter, <a href="http://www.twitter.com/vikingswar" rel='nofollow'>http://www.twitter.com/vikingswar</a>. Thanks for reading-Juliana

Sam

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 2:16 a.m.

I have personally spent time with some of the soldiers in Bravo Company and this isn't even close to a true representation of the kind of men or solider they really are. The soldiers of Bravo Company are outstanding men who are going to defend our country from those who want to harm what America stands for. These men are getting ready for war each one knowing they may or may not come home alive, not a trip to Chucky Cheese. The Infantry is trained to kill those who threaten our freedom, so when Sgt. Cumming states "We are going to kill the enemy" what he actually means is that they are going to kill those who are trying to kill them. These men do the best they can to keep their heads up and morale high as they prepare for a job that not many want to do. It is easy for some of us to hide behind a computer screen and judge what they do, but if it wasn't for men like these soldiers you would not have the right to express what you think. The men of Bravo Company haven't even had the chance to prove themselves yet they are being judged prematurely before they have even left the states.

Arborcomment

Tue, Oct 11, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.

Well written Sam. I had two comments deleted by the weekend moderator on Sunday thanking Amanda/Proud Army Wife and agreeing with PAW that educating many in the A2 area on things military is an uphill battle. The moderator is &quot;checking&quot; why. In my two trips to Afghanistan, the rules of engagement have had one almost basic constant. You literally need to be shot at first. There are some exceptions, perhaps if ISR has been monitoring the activity for a long time and/or ISR has identified an impending ambush of friendly forces, but fighting a war where they get the first shot shows how far the coalition is going to minimize collateral damage.

Amanda Hubert

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 4:26 a.m.

Also I would like to add how crappy of a reporter you are, you only write to make people worked up over your bias opinion all to get attention!!!!! And as I recall I never gave permission for my children to be mentioned in this article..... And I wonder if you know how dangerous it is for you to give out information to the world about our soldiers where about or the dates they will be some place!!!!!!!!!! Its all just sickening this has made me so angry!!!!!!!!

ProudArmyWife

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 6:39 p.m.

are perhaps a family member of one of these soldiers? I am positive that is never the thought when theses articles are published. I think it is just classic example of how different civilians see things. I am from the Ann Arbor area and this is typical, it is a very closed minded place especially for military issues. Deep breaths and staying strong help :D I don't know why they would post dates and places anyways because if the story was about a soldier and their families journeys, you should be able to tell the story without releasing 'sensitive' information. I find it hard to swallow that we as families and supports aren't privy to information they are releasing to a liberal newspaper.

Amanda Hubert

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 4:15 a.m.

Well first I would like to introduce myself my name is Amanda and I am SGT Hubert's wife!!!! I cant express enough how proud I am of my husband and all of our men and women who put their life on the line for our men and women at home, for our great country and for people to have the right to write articles like this one!!! When I first read this article I was appalled by the way you made our men sound!!!! I do not support the war but I PROUDLY stand behind my soldier and our miltary and support them all for all their hard work and sacrifices!!!!!!!! If we like it or not our country is in war, they started something we must try to help finish!!! All everyone sees is the bad things that are displayed by our news, its all sad that we don't look at the pros of this war and not just the cons!!! We are trying to bring the peace we have here to them,to the future of the innocent children!! Yes our country is in debt and that's not because of just the war but from our governments mistakes and selfishness not because of our selfless soldiers!! Blame the house blame the people who continue to be paid thousands while people are going with out, but do not blame our soldiers! As this year has marked the 10yr anniversary of 9/11 as we all took time to remember the lives lost due to the tragic act of terrorism, did we not remember who did this? Or why we are in war! Its because of that day!!! If we bring all our troops home who will be there to keep the attacks aboard? Who will keep 9/11 from repeating itself!!??? I just wonder if everyone thinks about the jobs the army creates in a time were jobs are hard to come by, I wonder if people think of the men and women that sacrifice their life with there loved ones for them!!?? We really need to stop being so rude and putting down our men and women just because what we think know or what we think is wrong or going on!! We need to support them in the rough times of this war and support their families!!!! God bless our troops!!!!!

ProudArmyWife

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.

I am a proud wife too! Don't let the ignorance get you down! :D Hang in there girl!

genetracy

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 5:36 p.m.

Ever since Communism became a fading memory, the left in this country has had difficulty figuring out who to root for.

Will Warner

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 3:54 a.m.

&quot;Free? What does that mean? It appears that to you that means free to be western/modern/democratic. Not everyone believes in those values&quot; I'm not so concerned whether their country is democratic, but everyone wants freedom. Only someone who has never known anything but freedom could doubt that. Can girls go to school? Are people executed for religious "crimes?" Do they have freedom of speech, religion and association? Can someone be an atheist? Can they travel? Do they own their own lives? Everyone wants this. Educated woman in Afghanistan are fearful of what will become of them when the U.S. leaves, and with good reason. You can say that that is a shame but there is nothing we can do about it. That is a legitimate argument. Not so the assertion that they are so unsophisticated as to not need or appreciate freedom.

Sam Smith

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.

Got it. To clarify... Democracy meaning choice of government by the people without fear of reprisal and not just a controlling few. Its not the people who don't want or appreciate freedom it's the controlling few who deny it. Freedom may be one of those &quot;not everyone believes in those values&quot; category.

Sam Smith

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 3:49 a.m.

Two of my comments were deleted in thoughtful response to what I consider offensive comments. What's the agenda?

Will Warner

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 4:30 a.m.

Were the comment you were responding to also deleted? If so, it seems that sometimes moderators will delete comments referring to deleted comments, for otherwise the referring comments may seem disembodied...

Thor143

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.

I thought we were getting out of Afganistan? I fully support our brave troops there, but what is the purpose? What is the difference with this from the fiasco in Viet Nam???

Arborcomment

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 2:09 a.m.

We are getting out. Only this time when the job is done. We dropped any effort to rebuild Afghanistan after the USSR was defeated and the Taliban took over. We mostly left again as we were diverted to Iraq and let the Taliban return. The Taliban have shown no compunction to stop supporting ALQ. ALQ is most active, and finds sanctuary in unstable regimes. I only hope that despite a politically designed and openly announced timetable by our Commander in Chief (what a great strategy!), we can complete a successful transition in time. What we don't want is a repeat of post Vietnam with millions of deaths there, in Cambodia, and Laos when we left a surrounded weak government to their fate.

Sam Smith

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 11:30 p.m.

We may have gone to war with all the wrong and selfish reasons. When was the last time you read about a suicide bomber in Israel? Look at all the Mid East countries seeking democracy now. Afghanistan girls and women are going to school. It takes time. Japan and German are now allies. Yes war is ugly and brutal. No one likes it. Sometimes the best changes come from bad things. Thank you troops! Take care and return home safely!

Marilyn Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 5:39 p.m.

<a href="http://www.www.socialistworker.org/2011/09/12/the-face-of-military-suicide" rel='nofollow'>http://www.www.socialistworker.org/2011/09/12/the-face-of-military-suicide</a> .

Sam Smith

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 3:03 a.m.

Who doesn't want the soldiers to come home safely and with their sanity?

Marilyn Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 5:40 p.m.

By the way, I'm not a socialist. All I want is the soldiers to come home safely and with their sanity.

leaguebus

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 4:26 p.m.

Good story! I have nothing but respect for all our soldiers. As can be seen from the comments here, the American people are tiring of our foreign wars. So am I. But we have to make sure that we support our soldiers 100%. My son is a regular Army Special Forces member and i have spent many long nights worrying about him when he is deployed. I feel for the families of our MNG citizen soldiers and wish only the best to them and their heroes. One of my neighbors sons is in this group and i wish Mark the best and I look forward to shaking his hand and giving him a big hug when he gets back.

Joe_Citizen

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 4:16 p.m.

I really don't know why this is so cool for the publishers. This is advertising war, and it is not what we want to see. I want to see them all done and home. This war has gone way to far, and we really don't need to be there unless there is another reason to be there. I for one am in belief that we are there for the Lithium ore and the oil of-course. This add is meant to glorify and promote war and violence that we are creating all over the world, while we the helpless citizens sit and rot, because all our money is going to Fat Corps.

Sam Smith

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 11:10 p.m.

Gramma, unfortunately there were maimed and wounded children and other citizens before Americans came. They're in mass graves.

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 6:35 p.m.

I believe the media should again show the pictures of those returning in caskets, the maimed and wounded children and other citizens and the other damage our military forces have done in Iran and Iraq. We destroyed an acheological museum in Iraq and our soldiers were among those who looted the remains. Return to the media coverage we had of Vietnam.

Adam Betz

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.

Joe, I sincerely appreciate your pont of view and actually agree with you somewhat. I do think those little Toyota Prius' that you see driving around A2 are going to be powered with the lithium and other minerals found in Afghanistan. It's pretty short sighted and closed minded of some of the people in A2 to think they have no part in the war...believe me...if you are driving a car you are contributing. That being said, I don't think annarbor.com is promoting the war. The American people are too comfortable with seeing the news of the war on their TV's each night and having the option of turning their backs or turning off the TV. Our story, the story of those of us fighting this conflict, needs to be in your face. You should not be able to look away out of convenience. Either be disgusted or for it, I want you to feel something and not just ignore this war and our experience. We've sacrificed too much for that. I'm not asking you to agree with us but I am asking you to accept reality.

d_a2

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:51 p.m.

best of luck fellas!

Billy Buchanan

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:27 p.m.

I fail to remember the name of the Poet or Author of the saying &quot;Only the Dead Have Seen the End of Wars&quot;

DBH

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 7:40 p.m.

The actual quote is &quot;Only the dead have seen the end of war.&quot; Although often (mis)attributed to Plato, it is from George Santayana.

xmo

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.

Thank you for bring the contribution of our Michigan National Guard to our attention. We have an Army because their are BAD people out their who want to hurt us. God Bless those men and women who serve our country so we can Complain &amp; Whine!

Sam Smith

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.

No one likes war. It's complicated. VietNam was a misguided war with horrible loss and VietNam Veterans are more than worthy of respect, support and appreciation for their service. Peace would be nice but some people are not seeking peace or freedom. They are seeking control of every aspect of your life. They will kill you, your family because you of who you are, that you do not think like they do or do what they tell you to do. Then what? Sometimes you've got to fight for what's right. Support and thank our troops for their service and sacrifice. And yes, support peace efforts too.

Sam Smith

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 2:51 a.m.

Yep Gramma, those we're fighting against are saying we're against democracy and freedom. That we say women should not be educated and married off at age 12 to a 60 year old man completely dependent on him so that she has to do what she is told or be abused and/or killed. That if you think different than the religious leader we should kill you. I could go on but no they are not saying exactly the same things about us.

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 6:30 p.m.

I'm sure those who fight against us say exactly the same things about us.

Mary

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:37 p.m.

Thank you annarbor.com for providing coverage of all our brave men and woman. I challenge you to continue to provide coverage when they return home to face many challenges. My husbands unit just returned home to very little news coverage. Important facts should have been shared like 40% of his unit came home to unemployment. Facts like the DFAS (military finance) has yet to process per diems for thousands of those returning even though the forms were signed months ago. Facts like how DFAS has held up and delayed unemployment benefits for thousands of these brave men and women because they don't provide quartely earnings to the state in a timely manner. Facts how no matter what you do your GI bill and tuition will become problematic and take hours of phone calls and emails to correct. These men and women will serve their country proudly and always rise up to the call of duty, yet on the other side of things our country and state fall short on helping them when they return home. It would be nice to see coverage of the other side of deployment as well. Although I'm happy and proud to see any sort of coverage at all! God speed to the 125th! I will pray for all of you and your families. Thank you for your service and thank you to all the families that will be home trying to fill in the voids of their loved ones they are missing.

Mary

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:09 p.m.

Thanks for the info Tex Treeder. They should have some watchdog group monitoring DFAS and why it is things have such trouble getting processed....

Tex Treeder

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3 p.m.

DFAS, now there's a problem worth solving. Here's one person's experience. Not mine, but I've seen and heard this and worse. <a href="http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-section/264403-dfas-can-burn-hell-rant.html" rel='nofollow'>http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-section/264403-dfas-can-burn-hell-rant.html</a>

Guy

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.

For those of you who HAVEN'T been to War step back for a second and use that lump three feet from you butt. I know that there is the First Amendment and I value your thoughts and opinions but without these young men and women you would not have that right! As cliche as that is to say it is true and no matter what your political party is you need to support these young men and women because you have not stepped up to the plate and defended this country whether or not it was just! For the people who say that &quot; when will they ever learn&quot; people have been fighting before you were born and born before your parents were born! So to say that is ignorant and for the people who say we aren't fighting for anything then you obviously have not been in the trenches and have not been away from your loved ones or have lost the friends that are closest to you. I say this if you want this war to end then do SOMETHING writing your congressmen or president does nothing because everyone has their hand in the cookie jar so to speak. If you really want change then how about you run for any type of government position because sitting back and being a Monday Morning Quarterback accomplishes nothing while making you look like a hypocrite!

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 9:45 p.m.

Guy, if you read the Old Testament prophets, God allowed other nations to occupy Israel every time Israel became an oppressive, imperialistic force. Israel had not existed as a country, before 1948, for a long, long time. In 1948, the Allied Powers allowed the European (ashkenazi) Jews to establish the land of Israel on land which belonged to the Palestinians. After that time Israel launched land grabs into territory belonging to Palestine and Egypt, establishing its current boundaries. The Allied Powers did nothing.

DBH

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 8:04 p.m.

@Guy, regarding @kmgeb2000's latin phrase, @kmgeb2000's translation is correct. I think you confused it with &quot;Si vis pacem, para bellum.&quot;

Adam Betz

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 7:21 p.m.

Gramma...your statement is not only false, but offensive. In over 12 years of my profession, never have I been taught by the military or taught my men to use racial slurs. Does it happen on an individual basis? Of course, just like there are people who say offensive things at every job site...but to say the military teaches this is completey untruthful and goes to show how sheltered you are about military life. We go through hours of Equal Opportunity and Sexual Assault/Harrassment training every year. Please do not speculate.

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 6:49 p.m.

Guy, Many of the people responding to this article fought in other wars and/or lost loved ones in those wars. Many of us have also dealt with the impact of these wars on those who fought them directly. Over 30% of the homeless are veterans. Many addicts and aloholics use their drugs to forget. I have heard veterans state, &quot;We had to kill them to survive, but they were just like us.&quot; Many vets cry about the women and children they killed. They wake up with night terrors and have flashbacks. The military teaches derogatory racial and ethnic terms (ragheads, krauts, etc) to dehumanize the enemy so our soldiers will be more willing to kill. That furthers prejudices and discrimination here at home. The cookie jar is provided by the wealthy corporations.

kmgeb2000

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 5:45 p.m.

Guy; I was not trying or guessing at the meaning. It was from Andrew Carnegie in 1907. Neither the governments of Iraq or Afghanistan attacked the US. To agree to keep the peace does not mean be a pacifist. The Cold was basically agreeing to keep the peace as we didn't blow the world to bits. Although my uncle who deployed parts of our SOSUS net, described several less than peaceful altercations with the USSR in the 60s that are likely not part of the public record.

Adam Betz

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.

Hey Marilyn...you might want to check your history on the Philipines and why the US was there as well before you claim to understand warfare through your ancestors. Because they fought doesn't mean you understand us or the reason we fight. You'll never understand...just accept it and move on.

Marilyn Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:23 p.m.

Are the deaths warranted? Are the orphans and widows warranted? Does the fact that these countries will return to business as usual when we finally leave worry you? Does it bother you that we have become the world police? The economy has tanked in part because of the cost of these endless wars. With fewer jobs the only answer for some poor young people is to join up. Maybe they will get a college education out of it...maybe a down payment on a house...maybe they won't come back at all. Vietnam is doing great despite 58,000 dead Americans. Does that bother you? Cannon fodder. By the way, my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War, The Rebellion. A great uncle commanded the military at The Battle of Point Pleasant which drove the native Americans across the Ohio. One Uncle was killed in France in the first world war, another was killed in the Philippines . My father served in the second World War. They had a clear idea of what they were fighting for. My classmates died in Vietnam. Not so clear. People have forgotten, or weren't even born then.

Guy

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:12 p.m.

Funny, kmgeb2000 &quot; If you wish for peace, prepare for war&quot; good try though and when was the last time anyone agreed to peace? As I see it the Israelis have been fighting since biblical times funny how people construed things!

kmgeb2000

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:07 p.m.

@Guy: Si vis pacem, para pactum, that is &quot;If you want peace, agree to keep the peace&quot;

Guy

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 3:06 p.m.

Oh and that reason why we join ...... is Duty, Honor, Country!

Paul Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.

Problem is, most recent wars have nothing to do with defending our country. Just defending someone's pocket book. If someone says something against these wars they automatically get branded as defaming soldiers. I don't buy that. Yes, the soldiers volunteer to go now for whatever reason. That doesn't mean that the rest of us can be called idiots for objecting to spending billions on wars we don't support.

Paul Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.

&quot;...and it's one, two three..what are we fightin' for? Don't ask me, they don't give a damn, send 'em off to Afghanistan !!&quot; And the rich man's wars go on, and on, and on, and on.......... Young folks need to rise up and say NO, like we did.

Sam Smith

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 10:56 p.m.

Gramma have you forgotten WWII?

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.

Adam, all wars are about the greed of someone with wealth and, thus, power

Guy

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 4:04 p.m.

Actually you did! And this isn't Vietnam.... So use something not from your protest rallies in the 60's!

Paul Wilkie

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:36 p.m.

I never said anything about treating returning veterans as second class soldiers.

Adam Betz

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.

^ And treat returning veterans as second class citizens? No thanks. We weren't drafted...we don't fight for the rich man...we fight for each other.

packman

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:56 p.m.

&quot;War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.&quot; John Stuart Mill – Eighteenth Century English Economist

ProudArmyWife

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 6:31 p.m.

thats one of my favorite quotes. Thanks for posting

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.

Young soldiers prepare for war all over the world. Each side claims, &quot;We have God on our side.&quot; The wars never stop. I was born in 1943 and our country has never been at peace in my lifetime. To quote an old peace song, &quot;When will they ever learn?&quot;

Adam Betz

Sun, Oct 9, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.

Has writing to our President and Congress done anything in the last 50 years? I think you need a new tactic.

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:12 p.m.

Adam, I write to the president and congresspeople, asking that we stop the wars. I also try to live my life the way I would like to see the future be. I used to participate in peaceful protests, but my health will not allow that now. I try to educate myself. In SE Michigan, I have the wonderful opportunity to know people from many cultures, faiths, and backgrounds. I believe that coming to know each other as human beings greatly helps to keep us from being willing to harm each other. Adam, I sincerely hope you come back home in one, live piece, both physically and mentally/emotionally.

kmgeb2000

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:05 p.m.

Eisenhower warned us what would happen, but we failed to heed his wise advise. We have even surpassed his expectations, beyond just the military-industrial complex to include into the mix the healthcare-pharmacia-prison-drug war-financials.

Adam Betz

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.

@ Gramma, more importantly, what are you doing to end the conflict? What is your contribution?

observer

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:39 p.m.

They are soldiers, that is how they are trained.....to have it any other way would put their lives in jeopardy.........but a liberal would not consider that........

marymartha

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:46 p.m.

There is nothing in this article/series/dialogue about politics. It's about three local soldiers who are fighting overseas for our country, it's about their stories, their lives, their sacrifices. To bring dirty politics into it diminishes everything these articles contribute.

Jimmy McNulty

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:39 p.m.

I wish all of the troops the best! One correction, the caption on photo #4 above states &quot;2nd Lt. Neil Gikas,&quot; where the subdued black bar suggests he is a 1st Lieutenant. I'm sure he does not want a demotion.

Gordon

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:24 p.m.

Well written. It does point out why we have an Army of citizens. I was going to mention there is a difference between what the State is responsibile for &amp; the Federal government. Till I reaized as a taxpayer it doesn't make a difference. It all comes out of the same pocket State or Federal. Maybe that fact has been lost.by our representiitives. The lesson that King George should have learned learned is warfare far from home fought by a loose organization of people with a common belief is impossible to win. It's our revolution all over again. The Russians failed &amp; so will we. No common unity &amp; no common goals yet they fight on. Killing each other is as important as killing the foreignors. Russia, Pakistan, and the USA should seal the borders and let them find their commonality. What a mess.

bunnyabbot

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:21 p.m.

of course the title of this article is meant to be inflaming. annarbor.coms main tactic.

Linda Peck

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.

What a waste of human breath! War! I cannot think of anything uglier than this.

Tex Treeder

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 2:49 a.m.

Free? What does that mean? It appears that to you that means free to be western/modern/democratic. Not everyone believes in those values. In fact, I'd say that judging by the evidence, most humans don't value democracy as we practice it. You can't graft elections on a country and expect it to be a modern democracy. Democracy causes elections, not the other way around.

Will Warner

Sat, Oct 8, 2011 : 12:38 a.m.

&quot;It's their country. If they want to live with public executions, etc., that's up to them. .... invading Afghanistan with the idea of making their culture more acceptable to our norms is wrongheaded to begin with.&quot; If I thought the Afghanis wanted to live that way, I would have no objection. I don't suggest that we make their culture acceptable to our norms; I suggest we help them be free.

Will Warner

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.

&quot;Will, I do not believe that we are in Afghanistan fighting for women's rights or because certain music is banned or even because the Taliban blew up the Buddhist statues. I believe the true reasons are far less altruistic and uglier than most Americans would like to think about&quot; So you are OK if Afghanistan retuns to a place where girls don't go to school?

Gramma

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 7:09 p.m.

Will, I do not believe that we are in Afghanistan fighting for women's rights or because certain music is banned or even because the Taliban blew up the Buddhist statues. I believe the true reasons are far less altruistic and uglier than most Americans would like to think about.

Tex Treeder

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.

It's their country. If they want to live with public executions, etc., that's up to them. If they attack us, that's another story, and we should be ready and willing to defend ourselves. But invading Afghanistan with the idea of making their culture more acceptable to our norms is wrongheaded to begin with.

luvdady

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 2:03 p.m.

well theirs the slaughter of unborn life , because of inconvenience.

Will Warner

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 1:07 p.m.

How about that which characterized Afghanistan before we arrived: public executions for religious offenses, the blowing up of ancient statues of deities from other faiths, the banning of music, indeed, the banning of all of modernity, the extreme circumspection of women's lives, including the ending of education for girls at a young age. This is what will return unless someone fights it.

pbehjatnia

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 11:58 a.m.

$300 Million wasted taxpayer debt and dollars each month. What is the interest rate on the debt for this waste? Afghanistan did not have anything to do with 9/11. Sure it was nice to see the Taliban go but they are back and just as strong while we pay for Karzai's corrupt (family) government to suck our money into private accounts. Women still have no rights, children starve and poppy is the big industry. We failed here. Please cut our losses and move on and out ASAP before even more Americans die for nothing.

kmgeb2000

Fri, Oct 7, 2011 : 11:49 a.m.

$300 MILLION a month in Afghanistan alone and here we implement austerity measures, because for some reason teachers, firefighters, unions, city-county workers are destroying the county. Go figure. Our roads, water pipes and sewers are crumbling beneath out very feet, our schools in decline, but corporations are fat with profits. To those asked to be in harms way, may you return to those who care for you.

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