Glazier Way residents in Ann Arbor upset over VA shuttle buses going through neighborhood
A VA shuttle bus drives through the scenic Glazier Way neighborhood in Ann Arbor on Tuesday after dropping off a few VA hospital employees at the parking lot of Huron Hills Baptist Church, about a mile east of the hospital. Some residents in the neighborhood are mad about extra noise and traffic.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"It's back and forth, back and forth, in the morning and the evening," said Helen Aminoff, a retiree who lives with her husband in a 27-unit condominium complex near the corner of Huron Parkway and Glazier Way.
They say they regularly hear the shuttles coming and going and they're hopeful a solution can be reached to at least reduce the frequency of the trips.
The 1-mile route along Glazier Way between the VA hospital (A) and Huron Hills Church (B).
Google Maps
Two shuttles run on a continuous loop from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., transporting VA employees between the hospital and the church, located about a mile east on Glazier Way.
VA officials say the hospital needs the satellite parking space due to growing numbers of veterans coming in for care and rising staffing levels to meet those demands. They say the situation with the church is only temporary until a new parking garage can be built next to the hospital.
Rick Ratliff, head of the Glazier Way Association, said he and other residents have been trying to work with city officials to reach a more immediate solution.
Ratliff said he moved into the Glazier Way neighborhood about 18 years ago because the area was beautiful and peaceful. But for the past several months, about every 10 minutes for 12 hours a day, a series of "howling, screeching shuttle buses" go by his house.
"We and our neighbors are the victims of the noise and traffic generated by this commercial enterprise," he said. "The buses literally wake us up every morning and annoy us all day long."
City Council Member Stephen Rapundalo, D-2nd Ward, said he's sympathetic to the concerns raised by Glazier Way residents. He said he's been trying to see what the city can do and he's been in contact with the city's planning department and the city attorney's office.
From what he's learned so far, Rapundalo said it appears the use of the church's property as a satellite parking facility and shuttle location for the VA isn't allowed under the current zoning. But it also appears there might not be much the city can do about that.
"We have another governmental unit that obviously plays by its rules," Rapundalo said. "Obviously this is not a church function, thus it would violate the zoning regulations. But by the same token, it's my understanding that since a federal entity is involved, they have preemption, as with the University of Michigan or other state agencies, so that complicates things."
Wendy Rampson, the city's planning manager, said it's true the VA is exempt from the city's zoning, and that applies even to the off-site use of the church parking lot.
Ratliff said it still doesn't seem right. The way he sees it, what's at stake are the rights of taxpaying citizens in Ann Arbor to control the quality of their neighborhoods.
"Here we have two non-taxpaying entities conspiring on a revenue-generating project without even consulting the people in the neighborhood or, apparently, without considering the zoning requirements," he wrote in an email to Rapundalo this week. "If this is allowed to stand in one of the more affluent neighborhoods in Ann Arbor, then no neighborhood is safe."
Long-term parking plans
Christa Stoiber, a spokeswoman for the hospital, said the VA is interested in hearing the residents' concerns and will try to address them.
"We certainly want to work with the community. We don't want there to be any disruptions," she said. "We certainly want to be a good neighbor."
Stoiber said increases in both staffing levels and the number of patients coming to the VA hospital are driving the need for the off-site parking arrangement.
"We have more veterans coming in getting services here," she said. "Our workload has grown quite a bit, so what this did is it freed up parking spaces for veterans."
The hospital currently has about 2,163 employees, though that includes both part-time and full-time positions.
Huron Hills Church is making more than $80,000 a year off a contract providing parking for VA hospital employees.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
Funding for the project hasn't been approved yet, she said, but it's in the design stage and the hope is to start construction next spring.
"We've always known this is a temporary situation," said Ken White, lead pastor at Huron Hills Church. "I fully expect them to build that parking structure and move toward that quickly."
In the meantime, White said the church is interested in cooperating on a solution that works for everybody. But the way he sees it, the church is meeting a need and helping veterans.
"I think the VA who approached us on this created a mutually beneficial situation for us as a church and for them to be able to provide parking," he said. "We're glad to do that."
A sensitive situation
Rapundalo said residents along Glazier Way are extra sensitive about the issue given the background behind the road and how it originally came to be paved.
The paving of Glazier Way, formerly a gravel road, was completed in the fall of 2000 after a year and a half of construction. Anytime gravel roads are upgraded to pavement in Ann Arbor, property owners pay 100 percent of the costs through special assessments.
City Assessor David Petrak said about 110 properties along Glazier Way were assessed to pay for nearly $700,000 in costs on the project, and the church was included in that.
Rapundalo recalled there was a lengthy and acrimonious dialogue about how to best reconstruct the winding, hilly road several years ago.
"In the end, basically, the design was such as to specifically limit commercial traffic and so forth, because that was largely a major cut-through between two major thoroughfares," he said, noting the speeds were set specifically at no more than 25 mph to achieve that.
"So now to have larger vehicles moving larger amounts of people back and forth all day on a regular basis is rather intrusive and certainly disruptive," he said. "And I think that's what really has the neighbors upset and, in some regards, justifiably so."
Residents believe the extra traffic is speeding up the deterioration of Glazier Way, a street they note was once designated a "Natural Beauty Road" back in the 1980s.
Another of the two VA shuttle vehicles circles through the Huron Hills Church parking lot during the afternoon rush hour on Tuesday.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"It's wear and tear on the road, but really it's more than that," she said. "I question the use of commercial vehicles up and down Glazier Way and the frequency. The question is should the church be doing this and should this be done on our city roads?"
Kirk Pennington, who oversees street maintenance for Ann Arbor, said eventual maintenance of Glazier Way, if there is wear and tear, would be funded by state gas tax money. Though, if it needs to be completely reconstructed, that would come from city taxes.
Rapundalo said he's hopeful the city can strike a deal with the VA and the church to at least reduce the frequency of the shuttles, and possibly find quieter vehicles. AnnArbor.com observed during Tuesday's rush hour that the shuttles came and went from the church parking lot about every 5 to 10 minutes, often with only three or four VA employees at a time.
"I'm sure they're not all full and they go up and down every few minutes — maybe they can go every half hour," Aminoff said.
However, Ratliff said, he thinks the VA should try to find other parking lots to lease space from without destroying the peace in what he considers one of Ann Arbor's prettiest neighborhoods.
"When the road was improved, it was with the understanding it was not going to become a commuter road or a connector road, and that's exactly what the church — by entering into this agreement — has made the road become," said Ratliff, who lives at the corner of Glazier Way and Wolverhampton Lane where the shuttles stop.
"This is a business enterprise that was just undertaken without at all seeing how we would feel about it," he said. "It feels like we're powerless to do anything about it. It's a really annoying thing, it's increased the traffic in our neighborhood, it's noisy, it wakes us up in the morning, and it keeps going into the evening. It just seems like we're being bullied."
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.
Comments
Sallyxyz
Sun, Jul 31, 2011 : 4:25 p.m.
3. The folks in the white coats are primarily U of M staff members that drive from the U's hospital instead of taking the U's shuttles. Dear Informed, This may be true, but it doesn't give them the right to park illegally in apartment parking lots because they do not want to be inconvenienced by taking a shuttle from UM to the VA. There are plenty of shuttles running all day and all night to accommodate staff from UM who also work at the VA. The arrogance of these staff just amazes me. Better to inconvenience the residents of the apartment buildings who can't find parking in lots that they are paying for!
justcary
Sun, Jul 31, 2011 : 3:41 p.m.
RAtliff's statement about his "affluent" neighborhood's problem as a bellwether for the rest of us is beyond a NIMBY remark; it's offensively elitist! Let's have a parade and bang some cans for freedom on Affluent Glazier Way!
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
My instinct tells me most Ann Arborites think more of their pets than their vets.
Larry White
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:45 p.m.
If they want to control the traffic on the roadway, they should have bought in a gated community.
nightstars
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 5:39 a.m.
I've been using Glazier Way as a cut-through for YEARS!! Bwahahahah!
Robot Charles
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:23 a.m.
Why can't the employees walk the 1 mile? The expectation that we have a right to drive or be driven directly to any place is bad. This is why we Americans are over weight.
Larry White
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:48 p.m.
Then we'll have to pay for a pedestrian overpass on Huron and traffic control along the way.
a2 Brute?
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:27 a.m.
Actually, the employees have the right to drive on public roads. As do the shuttle buses.
15crown00
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 4:01 a.m.
force them to go another way or ticket them.they have no right to be a pain in the butt.
pbehjatnia
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 3:04 a.m.
seriously? seriously? we need city council members wasting taxpayer time trying to protect "one of the prettiest neighborhoods" in town? seriously? so if i live in a pretty neighborhood i count? we have city buses running up and down our street, people using our street as a short cut to the u/m hospitals.... and i have never heard anyone complain. get a life and if you want total silence go live on an island.
Barbara Clarke
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:47 a.m.
Having read this article, it is clear to me that the hospital and the church should have involved the residents in the beginning when this shuttle plan was being developed. However, I agree with other comments that the residents need to step back and consider what is really at stake here . . . the care of the veterans, in my opinion, outweighs the complaints by the residents. Since "compromise" is an scarce commodity these days, I urge all involved to come to the table and work out better arrangements to reduce the number of trips made by the buses, urge higher occupancy for the buses, introduce noise reduction measures, and remind everyone that this is a temporary irritation for the residents.
clownfish
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:15 a.m.
I think the most amusing thing about todays post is reading from people that normally despise union employees telling us that yes, they deserve free parking, at $240,000 to the tax payers!
actionjackson
Mon, Aug 1, 2011 : 4:51 p.m.
How did you manage to get any union activity out of this article or for that matter any of the posts to it?
a2citizen
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:21 a.m.
What do unions have to do with it? On site parking is not determined by union status.
clownfish
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:10 a.m.
Didn't the vets fight for: Domestic Tranquility The right to redress government for grievances? Actually the only vets to "fight" any real enemy of the US were the WWII vets, maybe the Afghani vets. The rest fought political wars for vested interests.
aawolve
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:31 p.m.
@clownfish- What's your point? That Vietnam veterans with amputated limbs are less deserving of care than WWII vets with amuptated limbs?
Cash
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 9:14 a.m.
Clown, I don't know where YOU were, but as most of the vets in treatment for serious illness, still including affects of Agent Orange,are Nam vets and the Viet Nam vets were DRAFTED by our government to fight the war....and that government was voted in by US. Therefore, we are responsible for their condition, like it or not. I have remained anti war and protessed against Nam back in the day. But I am not anti HUMAN. Those folks deserved better than they got THEN and they deserve a LOT better than they get today. What does your idea of what they were sent there for have to do with them deserving good care? And as we elected a government that sent them to wars....and that "we" includes the neighbors that live off of Glazier.....we are responsible for their care. Simple as that. This is OUR responsibility, Dems, Repubs and all in between. As you know, I'm a leftie.
townie54
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:03 a.m.
everyone here drive through Glazier Way this weekend with a sign on your car that says I honk for war veterans and give a honk or two .
a2citizen
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:01 a.m.
HISTORY OF GLAZIER WAY 1824. Ann Arbor founded by land speculators John Allen and Elisha Rumsey 1987. Oslund Development Corporation razes forest alongside scenic Huron Parkway to build condominiums. Glazier Way remains an unpaved, gravel road with signs posted "Natural Beauty Road" announcing the scenic view when driving westbound. Late 1990's to present. As residential and working population of city grows, City of Ann Arbor paves Glazier Way, causing it to lose it's "Natural Beauty Road" status. VA Medical Center begins to expand in order to meet the requirements of it's growing patient population. Vietnam veterans are now the largest group of servicemembers treated by the Ann Arbor VAMC. 2010. VA contracts with local church to provide parking for employees who are providing care to a growing patient population in a growing city with a growing working population in a four-year old recession. Glazier Way is no longer the bucolic setting it was when the forest was first razed. Recommendation to unhappy residents: Find another forest serviced by another dirt road, yet close to another hospital. Raze the forest and build another condo. Then, in 20 years complain that the hospital is expanding (to meet the requirements of an aging population) and is once again destroying your quality of life. Think about it. If you are 40 years old and if you raze one forest every 20 years you can raze 2 more forests before your 81st birthday. And you may be able to catch a ride on one of those shuttle buses to get you to the hospital for treatment.
Dog Guy
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:41 p.m.
Perhaps this is the time for the "Defiance Morraine" heroine to step forward and be recognized for losing Ann Arbor its euphonious and evocative "Glacier War."
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:17 p.m.
I wonder if some veteran's groups are going to endorse Tim Hull for next Tuesday's election over the incumbent Mr. Rapundalo's ill-advised comments. Definitely reason for some get-out-the-vote calls targeting Third Ward voters.
Blue Eyes
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:34 p.m.
Boo hoo! The City has been pushing commuter busing and now the neighbors are complaining - welcome to the new grren world. They certainly shouldn't have thought that just because it was quiet when they moved in that things would never change!
p2psilantimi
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:55 p.m.
There is a war going on, and service members are returning from battle with injuries they may carry a lifetime. Do you think the citizens of Glazier Way could benefit from a fact-finding trip to, say, Fallujah…?
Jake C
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:45 p.m.
Ridiculous. Do these people think no one else has to deal with noisy vehicles driving near them at "inconvenient" hours? Many people live in neighborhoods near highways like I-94 and US-23. Loud semi-trucks drive down these roads 24/7, nonstop, not just every 5-10 minutes from 6 AM to 6 PM. Many people live near train tracks, where incredibly loud trains drive by at all hours, and they don't just make noise, they make the ground shake. Other people live near airports, where loud airplanes take off & land nonstop. And many people live in apartment complexes and condos and houses where their neighbors are just noisy all the dang time for no good reason whatsoever. I guess the difference is that these people are rich, and they know people who work for AnnArbor.com to complain to. The rest of us just use earplugs, or white-noise fans, or we just suck it up and deal with it. It takes a special breed of person to complain about a VA shuttle.
OLDTIMER3
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:09 p.m.
Complain complain, I live in a 100 year old house and if someone blows their horn in my driveway I can't even hear it. These people complaining about the noise should complain to the builders if their house is that flimsy, or shut their windows. The VA should look into leasing PFIZERS parking lot to quiet down the cry babies.
Barbara Clarke
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:51 a.m.
Amen! Excellent points and recommendation!
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:53 p.m.
The fact of the matter is I stood on the corner of Wolverhampton and Glacier Way for nearly three hours today and I can tell you the VA busses are not large or noisy. In fact, we were there for nearly 40 minutes before we realized that the clean, small and quiet "busses" were the affronting VA vehicles. When we finally realized it my nine year old said, "those don't make any noise." I was confronted by a very nice lady who approached me. She made it clear that her issue was with the church and not the vets. I feel that it's a backwards value system. One should demonstrate their appreciation for the immense sacrifice of our vets even it is an "inconvenience." If the church can help the Veterans out while benefiting financially in these difficult times then that's a win win. Indeed, those our the type of solutions/partnerships we should be lauding. I am not sure if it's an anti Christain thing or just that church-- either way the issue should be nothing more than the grumblings of a few malcontents over their own morning oatmeal and certainly not a city council or newspaper issue. As I said, the honkers and beepers far out numbered the ingrates. God Bless our Veterans!
demistify
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:28 p.m.
NIMBY strikes again! Ann Arbor is constantly barraged with advocacy of mass transportation, but the bus should not run on my street, it should be relegated to streets with less prestige and less clout. The Planning Commission is on a crusade to whittle away at parking spaces to discourage cars. The city builds commuter lots when federal and state money can be obtained, but somehow it is reprehensible for a church to volunteer its parking lot for free to enable a shuttle service until a lot is built. Previous posts have deplored the meanness of stinting the access of veterans to health care. I also note that the spokesperson for the local opposition is a doctor's wife.
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:57 p.m.
"I also note that the spokesperson for the local opposition is a doctor's wife." If you are referring to Mrs. Aminoff, her husband has a background as a biochemist who formerly was on the faculty of U-M previously.
Merrey
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:22 p.m.
Instead of wasting your time and energy on this site, get on the phone or write your congressman and tell them to balance the budget. Otherwise, all the support for the veterans, current armed forces, and everyone else will be in vain because the government will be effectively shut down and no one including the VA will have any money coming in. The government needs to stop playing games with peoples' lives.
Woman in Ypsilanti
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:53 p.m.
I know. Maybe the people who object to a van on a *public* street can pitch in and pay for a big parking structure at the VA. I'll bet their donations would even be tax deductible.
A2comments
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:50 p.m.
It's amazing how so many have made this a vets issue, when it's not. If it was the University that rented the space, or the IRS, or another Federal / Government agency, none of this hyperbole would exist. It's quite simple. When you move into a community you usually check nearby areas to see how they are zoned, so you can understand the impact of future growth / development on your home. The church is NOT zoned to allow this parking. The city suggests that because it's a Federal Agency renting the space, the zoning violation might have be to ignored. In other words, the Federal Government isn't subject to zoning restrictions in a city. And the church got around the violation by leasing to the Federal Agency either knowingly or not. That seems very wrong. A poster suggested renting excess Pfizer spaces from U of M. Boy, that seems like a great alternative! Hopefully it will be explored by the VA.
Thick Candy Shell
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:32 p.m.
Why in the world would they rent from U of M for undoubtedly more money and have to drive an additional mile? They have done absolutely nothing wrong and have helped the finances of the church while at the same time keeping costs at a minimum!
Ben Connor Barrie
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:35 p.m.
Based on my analysis of traffic data these buses, if running every 10 minutes for 12 hours a day, add less than 2% to the total traffic volume along Glazier way. That doesn't seem like a lot. You can check out my full analysis here: <a href="http://www.damnarbor.com/2011/07/taking-back-yard-out-of-nimby.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.damnarbor.com/2011/07/taking-back-yard-out-of-nimby.html</a>
Joe Kidd
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.
I am concerned that a member of city council is trying to help the complainers.
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:01 p.m.
Don't be concerned - just vote for Steve's opponent.
grimmk
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:24 p.m.
Here's food for thought: 1) Get a noise canceling machine or a fan. I use a fan. I hear nothing. I sleep well. 2) Change out your windows. They make 'em better now a days. 3) They have reaaaaaly thick curtains now that'll help block out noise. 4) ear plugs I mean, if waking up at 6am is too early for you, maybe the VA buses will start at 8am? But how is it different then any other car that has a bad muffler driving by your house? Or someone blasting music out of their car?
AA
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:23 p.m.
I am sick to my stomach thinking about these poor people having to endure a bus driving down a road. A pathetic neighborhood would be a better name. They should be careful what they think.
Mick52
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.
I hear violin music playing in the back ground again. I want numbers. How many of these ungracious selfish people are complaining. The story gives us two names, one being the head of the Glazier Way Association who claims others are bothered. I really would like to know how many people are complaining about. I have a hunch it is just a few rich retired folks who don't give a hoot about others. I have news for them. There is no other path that bus can take that will not add significantly to the route.
Laura
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:54 p.m.
Really?? This upsetting to you folks in this neighborhood? I personally think all citizens should be legally bound to volunteer a chunk of time in the VA medical centers around this "country".......you know............the one of the free and the brave BECAUSE of all those Veterans?? This is disgusting, obscene and embarrassing! I'm the wife of a Vietnam Vet and the mother of three sons who have all served. One is currently serving and will be headed back to the Good Ol Middle East. I'd love to join that motorcycle gang on the upcoming tour of your neighborhood good people! Maybe you should all consider a move to the Middle East? Eh??
IsThisReallyAnIssue
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:40 p.m.
Here's some food for thought....90% of the shuttle drivers are Vets themselves who were hired specifically to shuttle employees from the church to the VA. So it annoys you that people are taking this "Oh, the poor vets" approach, when the shuttles are for employees. Well if there weren't shuttles to take these employees who serve the Vets, the drivers would be out of jobs...
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:36 p.m.
My daughter and son demonstrated for nearly three hours on Flazier Way this afternoon to many many honks of support and thumbs up. Do you think Ann Arbor .com showed up to acknowledge the patriotic children?They're first on the spot to write about whiners with too much time and money on thier hands. Sad, actually.
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:35 p.m.
That's awesome you heard about them. They'll be thrilled to read this. Thanks.
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:11 p.m.
Particularly since I called them. I figured any vet who was subjected to reading the original story deserved to know what two little kids thought of them and this issue.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:57 p.m.
That is horrible. Why do this story and then not do the postive follow up. Maybe we need to make some calls to the media.....
Isanopinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:53 p.m.
I heard about your children. That is fantastic. I wish I had money to take them to help cover the costs of more signs. Keep up the good work!!! Perhaps we will join you one of these days.
Lynn Liston
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:59 p.m.
This has nothing to do with whether a person is supportive of Veterans or not. For one thing, the Vets hospital is using parking in a residential neighborhood about a mile away from the hospital, for STAFF, not for Vet patients and their visitors/companions. As I understand it the hospital is building additional parking so this should be a temporary measure. Parking is at a premium at the hospital, so much so that for a time STAFF were illegally using up parking spaces in the parking garage intended for patients/family. The problem seems to be a noise and traffic issue in what is a residential neighborhood. It doesn't matter if it is affluent or not, these home owners pay property taxes and have paid for the paving of their local access road. If this were in a 'affordable housing' neighborhood, the issue would be the same. It sounds like what has happened is that two non-taxed entities have unilaterally taken it upon themselves to change the nature of the neighborhood that other people pay for and live in. While it seems like a great idea, to use the extra parking spaces at the church, this wasn't done in consultation with the neighbors. Perhaps if an effort had been made to engage the neighborhood in this decision, and demonstrate to people 1) the amount of helpfulness this would give the Vets' hospital and 2) solicit concerns and work toward mutually agreeable solutions and 3) explain that new parking at the hospital will eventually replace this temporary solution perhaps the neighbors wouldn't be so angry now. No one likes having a change to their neighborhood just thrust upon them. Why didn't the hospital try negotiating with the near-by shopping centers to use up some of their spaces, or the park and ride on Plymouth Rd near the freeway where no neighborhood would be affected?
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:14 p.m.
I couldn't believe this was the road. It is a major thorough fair with virtually NO residents on the Glazier Way itself. There is no way they hear them.
Thick Candy Shell
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:23 p.m.
It is not a local access street, it is a major street! This is the equivalent of S. Seventh from Miller to Scio Church, is that a local access street?
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:03 p.m.
Chances are the U of M would want $800,000 for the same service the church is providing for $80,000. Have you ever tried to rent anything from them? How does $100 per hour for a baseball field sound?
A2comments
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:52 p.m.
Very well put. Park N Ride doesn't have the capacity, but it sounds like the Pfizer property may.
AA
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.
You are wrong. Period. Get a life.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:12 p.m.
What you said, Ed.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:56 p.m.
"It sounds like what has happened is that two non-taxed entities have unilaterally taken it upon themselves to change the nature of the neighborhood that other people pay for and live in" Have you ever driven this road? The section in question is EAST of Huron Parkway. There are almost no homes on that road. It is not a "neighborhood", which makes the Nimbys' whining all the more despicable. It's not that these buses pass their homes. No. It's that these buses pass the intersections of the roads on which they live. This wouldn't happen in a working class neighborhood because working class people understand that streets are meant to be used as . . . . . wait for it . . . . STREETS!! Only in a neighborhood of wealthy NIMBYs is there a belief that their neighborhood ought be removed from the wretched refuse of the world around them. Good Night and Good Luck
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:38 p.m.
Those of us who live in affordable neighborhoods would not have an issue with the sounds of people going to work. I don't remember anyone ever consulting me or my neighbors about putting in a new McDonald's or using my street as an ambulance/police/firetruck main route. The sound of sirens is continuous day and night. Some of the shopping centers are very close to residential neighborhoods. This would just dump your unwanted noise on others. To think that this situation would play out the same in another neighborhood indicates elitism and lack of contact with reality.
julieswhimsies
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:27 p.m.
Shame on the complainants in this ritzy suburb. The men and the women the VA serves have always had our backs. They have risked their lives so that we may live our lives in peace...and you complain about the "temporary" noise of shuttles transporting workers to the VA? Do yourself and the military veterans of this country and volunteer at the VA.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5 p.m.
SILLY Sally wrote: "Far to many readers have transformed this story into a vets VS homeowner issue, which it is not. Sadly, many of these same writers are not pro vet, but anti afluent homeowner, and are using the vets to further their political goals." Bizarre. They are employees who provide services to vets. It is a distinction without a difference. As for the motives of the writers, yer jes makin' it up. You have no idea what you are talking about. In my case, I am a 25-year veteran of the United States Army, a retired lieutenant colonel. My motive? This is about NIMBYs who "support the troops" except when there might be even the tiniest bit of sacrifice for so doing. Sacrifice involved in supporting the troops? Then forget it. Pay higher taxes? Forget it. Put up with a little noise a few hours a day on weekdays so that the people who serve the men and women who served our country have a way to get to work? For this group of NIMBYs, that is apparently way too much to ask. Good Night and Good Luck
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:54 p.m.
My two children wanted to show support for our Vets. They spent all morning creating posters. They've been standing on Glazier Way with signs of support. Even a six and a nine year old have more sense than these persnickety people. Lastly, the VA buses are among the quietest of all the passing cars. Talk about a non issue.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:10 p.m.
Oh my goodness!!!!! Bless their hearts!! That is beautiful!
63Townie
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:49 p.m.
This sounds EXACTLY like a situation a number of years ago when some who live near the hospital whined about the noisy Life Flight helicopters. Instead of crabbing (the other word I thought of will get my post deleted) about the shuttle buses, why don't they thank the men and women who use the buses; the vets for their service to our country, and then thank whose who provide the services to the vets? Sheesh, what a spoiled, self-absorbed bunch of brats.
ypsiresident
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:36 p.m.
I recall a story from several years ago that some residents of this neighborhood made a stink about the noise from U-M Survival Flight helicopters. I recall thinking back then, "Geez....can't you find something else complain about?" It took 'em awhile, but here we go again!
MichMash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.
Please confirm with a link. If this is true...this is probably one of the most abhorrent and dispicible lot one could encounter. I am floored.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:09 p.m.
Holy cow. Unbelievable! The same "neighborhood"?
Laura
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:58 p.m.
Yep, the same folks!!
Thick Candy Shell
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:11 p.m.
I will state this again! Not only is it not a "residential road", the Michigan Department of Transportation certifies it as a "City Major". In addition, the Federal Highway Administration classifies this section as a "Major Collector".
Mick52
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:19 p.m.
Right. It's a public road. Anybody can drive on it anytime they want.
Nerak
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:05 p.m.
Even with the shuttles, the road isn't used to capacity. What part of "public road" don't the neighbors understand?
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4 p.m.
"If this is allowed to stand in one of the more affluent neighborhoods in Ann Arbor, then no neighborhood is safe." I realize this has been pointed out in a few comments already, but... this is a very revealing statement that gives us a lot of information about the person who said it.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:26 p.m.
Very true. This is already happening in most neighborhoods. Do the affluent think that other neighborhoods are quieter?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:33 p.m.
Indeed. Time for 'em to move to a gated community that will protect 'em from the wretched refuse. Good Night and Good Luck
treetowncartel
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
He probably likes his with Grey Poupon instead of Heinz 57;)
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:58 p.m.
This is not a vets Vs residnets issue, it is a "how to quietly transport EMPLOYEES of the VA hospital from a lot to the hospital instead of doing it in a disruptive, noisy way. Both goals can be achieved. Far to many readers have transformed this story into a vets VS homeowner issue, which it is not. Sadly, many of these same writers are not pro vet, but anti afluent homeowner, and are using the vets to further their political goals.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:41 p.m.
While I wouldn't go so far as to call myself an "anti-affluent homeowner" type, I would call myself an "anti-elitist homeowner with nothing better to do than complain about temporary increased traffic on my public street due to the needs of veterans to receive medical care" type. And yes this is a vets -vs- homeowner discussion. You are aware that the employees of the VA hospital care for the veterans right? and that if they cannot get to work, the veterans in their care will suffer in some way or another? All I'm saying is that a little compassion for the EMPLOYEES that serve the veterans of our country might be in order? And like a previous poster mentioned, if someone is that disturbed by a little road noise, maybe a gated community with private roads may be more fitting to their ultra quiet lifestyle. It's not like they can't afford it.... Lastly, I must say that the repetitive commenting most likely using the copy and paste technique without adding significant responses to previous replies may not be the best way to get your point across. Our vets provide our country with safety, security, and peace of mind. To complain about bus noise (those buses providing transportation for employees who directly care for our veterans) in light of the realities regarding what our veterans do for us and how their sacrifices provide the opportunity to live in an affluent neighborhood in the first place, seems a bit lacking in insight and worldview.
Perspicacity
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:29 p.m.
You keep saying the same thing over and over again without any meaningful responses to criticism. You suggested hourly shifts, as opposed to a continuous loop, the former ridiculous while the latter is a falsehood. As is your suggestion that there are broken down school buses being used. Minivans do not carry enough employees at shift change.
treetowncartel
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:47 p.m.
One thing to point out, it really is not a road use issue, but a zoning issue with respect to where the church is. As long as the Church is in compliance with the zoning regulations for the property then the issue is basically moot.
treetowncartel
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:37 p.m.
So what are these zoning issues/violations Oh wait, it is Ann Arbor.com, why would that matter. I don't think the days or hours that a church uses its parking lot are regulated. Otherwise, we couldn't have things like Midnight mass or youth group sleep overs. And certainly, they can't go after the church for charging a fee to use the parking lot. Look at all the churches last eek that were charging for Art Fair parking. Now, i do remember seeing salamanders in those woods when I used to skip school at Huron high. Perhaps, they could find a couple and use the endangered species act to close the road in its entirety.
A2comments
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:45 p.m.
The church is NOT in compliance with zoning issues. There exists the possibility that the zoning violation can't be enforced because a Federal Agency rented the spaces. So, the church has, either knowingly or not, bypassed measures put in place by the city to avoid this type of problem.
treetowncartel
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:50 p.m.
I would also add that Ms. Rampson seems to be passing the buck. I don't think paying for the use of the property makes it the governments property.
Perspicacity
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.
@Silly Sally, the shuttles run every 10 minutes during peak hours (6 am - 9 am-ish; 3:30 - 6:30 pm-ish). They do not run every 10 minutes during the middle of the day. Anyone standing at the corner of fuller rd & glazier way could observe this. The buses are often full with 20 - 30 employees during peak shift start/end times, which the reporter must have forgotten to investigate. Anyone know of a passenger van that can carry 30 passengers?
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.
So, last week Helen was complaining in the "paper" about a 'possible anti-semitic act. <a href="http://www.annarbor.com/news/historical-marker-for-states-first-jewish-cemetery-vandalized-on-university-of-michigan-campus/">http://www.annarbor.com/news/historical-marker-for-states-first-jewish-cemetery-vandalized-on-university-of-michigan-campus/</a> Today, she is complaing about shuttle busses. I see a pattern emerging.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:55 p.m.
Hmmm... that's very interesting.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:21 p.m.
I would guess that "affluent" neighbors might not like the reinstatement of the draft. If that Veterans Hospital provided care to their child, they might not mind those folks driving by. Of course if the draft was reinstated, the war would have needed already.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
Actually, the draft has never affected the children of the wealthy. They are always eligible for some type of exclusion. Remember the old CCR song, "I ain't no senator's son."
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:50 p.m.
Nope they might not but it sure would make people notice the wars which are almost forgotten today. These folks need our support, not our afterthoughts. I'm against a draft, to be clear. But I have heard people lately calling this "peacetime". It's sure not that... and our patriots fighting need us to remember them and respect them.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:55 p.m.
I would guess less alluent neighbors might not like the reinstatement of the draft either. You might be speculating a bit much here, my friend.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:26 p.m.
Sorry meant to type "the war would have ENDED already".
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
I'm going to post what Iposted early this morning asbest I recall it and wait for it to me zapped once again. The removal of comments here today has been a disgrace by the way. I hope that this aricle isn't picked up by the national media. It would paint the citizens of Ann Arbor as elist snobs...and this picture would not be correct for most of the residents of any town. Just what we need when this county is already looked at by some areas as a fading aristocracy. Speaking for myself, that's not the way i see it. Okay go ahead and remove my post again. I assume I'm providing a job for someone.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:54 p.m.
I guess I had the nerve to say that some certain A2 residents were snobbish. I didn't name NAMES though! LOL
MyOpinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:50 p.m.
Your first comment stayed up a long time and was in the running for a popular comment. Not sure why it got zapped. It is a good commentary about the story & the comments.
aawolve
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:18 p.m.
I also had a couple removed, despite following guidelines. Such is the way of a high school level production.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:48 p.m.
The zappers are carried away today. The conversation about this has been seriously disrupted by missing posts. And we want to call this a site for conversations?? Gees Louise, this is insanity.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:35 p.m.
Don't worry, my post agreeing with you was swiftly removed as well. You and I are on the same page today!!
Starr
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:11 p.m.
Thanks Cash, I couldn't have said it any better. My husband passed away 6 yrs ago from ALS, which was caused from being in the service, trying to protect the same people that are criticizing our men and women for riding in a loud bus. SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!!! "However, Ratliff said, he thinks the VA should try to find other parking lots to lease space from without destroying the peace in what he considers one of Ann Arbor's prettiest neighborhoods." You do realize that your beautiful neighborhood might not exist or have PEACE at all if not for veterans of foreign wars, correct? And in gratitude you don't want them taking a shuttle through your neighborhood to get health care for a couple of years? So the neighbors don't like noise? How do you "neighbors" think the veterans like the sound of explosives and gunfire around them why fighting for YOUR freedom? How do you think some of them coming home without their limbs felt about that imposition? Unbelievable. Talk about your spoiled rotten Americans.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:21 p.m.
Sally, it is about services to veterans. If Glazier Way residents should never have to hear noise, whose neighborhood do you think should be subjected to the noise of working people getting to their jobs? It is really sad that people of leisure should have to listen to the sounds of working people.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:29 p.m.
"Next you will include garbage trucks that are vital to t the VA hospital, then other delivery trucks, where does it end?" 1) Welcome to the classic reductio ad absurdum argument. 2) So what? They are public streets. It is allowed. Maybe these people need to move to a gated community where they won't be inconvenienced by the wretched refuse. 3) Have you looked at the map? Why would a garbage truck headed to or from the VA use this section of Glazier Way? The section in question is EAST of Huron Pkwy. There is no reason for either to go there unless it is to pick up garbage or to make a delivery. Good Night and Good Luck
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
@ Ghost - Next you will include garbage trucks that are vital to t the VA hospital, then other delivery trucks, where does it end?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:57 p.m.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. NOW I understand. It's not about the vets!! It's about the people who provide vital services to the vets. Talk about a distinction without a difference!! Good Night and Good Luck
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:38 p.m.
It ain't about the vets, or "your men abnd women and women". The article states, "Two shuttles run on a continuous loop from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., transporting VA employees between the hospital the church." It does not mention transporting veterans or patients. It is about the EMPLOYEES of the VA hospital, not the veterans. No homeowners or rentere desire increased noise at 6 AM going past thier homes. Why is it a continuous loop, instead of timed shifts? Why mostly empty big buses? Why not mini vans? This business of it being about veterans is a red herring, a false argument. I support veterans very much, more so than most people in Ann arbor, but this is about the EMPLOYEES of the VA in Ann Arbor, not vets, and homeowners. What quiet street do you live on?
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:03 p.m.
Support these veterans. They deserve our support.
Are you serious?
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:02 p.m.
"howling, screeching shuttle buses" ???? Guess I'll have to drive over there and listen for myself. From the picture it doesn't look like a "howling, screeching" vehicle. I've never seen anything like that.
Adam Betz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:58 p.m.
On another note, I'd gladly allow the residents of this neighborhood to take my spot on the plan to Afghanistan. They would find much more important things to worry about both over there and when they came home. Might put the good life in perspective for them. :) Semper Fi
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:15 p.m.
There are millions of people in the world who would be delighted to hear the sound of transportation as they walk 10 miles carrying a sick child to the nearest health center or as they walk 5 miles to be able to be at work at 5am
Gary Lillie
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
With so much time on their hands that they are inconvenienced, annoyed and victimized, perhaps Helen Aminoff, Rick Ratliff, Stephen Rapundalo, et al could volunteer at the VA hospitals where many volunteers are needed. There, they could see the price that veterans pay, with virtually no complaining of what they gave up to preserve the peace for neighborhoods such as Glazier Way. I have always said that more stories go through the lobby of a VA hospital in one day than Hollywood could use in its existence, with many of them being so unbelievable that if you saw it in a movie you would mock the film maker for producing such a ridiculous story. When I am up their for treatment I try to engage people nearby so I can hear their stories. When they do open up I am totally humbled. It seems that the folks around Glazier Way could use a little humbling.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:12 p.m.
Sally, Obviously, the vets cannot receive treatment, if the VA employees cannot get to work. This is also an issue of whether or not the public has the right to use public roads and streets. A person has to be elitist to be so offended by the sound of working people going to work.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:45 p.m.
SS, wrong. This is a Vets story...they need treatment and the employees are being moved to make room for the vets....this is all about caring for vets.
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:46 p.m.
Gary, this is not a vets Vs residnets issue, it is a "how to quietly transport EMPLOYEES of the VA hospital from a lot to the hospital instead of doing it in a disruptive, noisy way. Both goals can be achieved. Far to many readers have transformed this story into a vets VS homeowner issue, which it is not. Sadly, many of these same writers are not pro vet, but anti afluent homeowner, and are using the vets to further their political goals.
jeff4179
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:55 p.m.
Wow. I had to make sure at times I wasn't reading The Onion. Did Mr. Ratliff have no idea how elitist it would sound to say something "if they can make noise in our affluent neighborhoods, then no neighborhoods are safe" argument? What an altruistic guy he is, looking our for the property interests of all of us regular Ann Arbor folk. Wasn't there an old saying...."First, the VA hospital workers made noise in the affluent neighborhoods, and I did not speak out, because I didn't live in an affluent neighborhood. Then, the VA hospital workers made noise in the still affluent (but not quite as affluent neighborhood where Mr. Ratliff lives) neighborhoods, but I did not speak out because I didn't live in those still affluent neighborhoods. Then, the VA hospital workers made noise in my nice yet not affluent Ann Arbor neighborhood, but there was no one left to speak out." I'm haunted by the torment that Mr. Ratliff and his neighbors are going through. In all seriousness, had this been presented differently by the neighborhood complainers (e.g., "We understand the good reason that the employees are being transported and so don't object entirely, but can we work out some way where the shuttles interfere less with the neighborhoods?") there would have been much support. But it appears that subtlety or mutual respect escaped the complainers.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:08 p.m.
These affluent complainers have no concern for the noise that might awaken people in other neighborhoods if these buses are rerouted. Of course, many working folks are up at 6am anyhow.
dmkellman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:47 p.m.
Is this seriously a news story?
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:04 p.m.
Is this seriously a comment?
JuliaAnnArb
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:47 p.m.
What is wrong with these people? 6am-6pm seem like pretty reasonable hours for vehicles to drive on a public road. Actually, any time is reasonable for a vehicle to drive on a public road. Maybe if they got out of the house for a bit they'd be less irritable. I'm home during the day and I hear delivery trucks, lawn services, the occasional siren, and recycling pick-up. It's called part of living in a community. If you want to live in Ann Arbor, deal with the fact that there will be some level of noise.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:05 p.m.
You know, Silly Sally, the people riding in these vans have already been up for an hour or 2 before the vans make noise to bother Glazier Way residents.
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:12 p.m.
8 AM, or even 7 AM . But 6 AM. That is a bit early to be awakened up by noise.
stevek
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:45 p.m.
Maybe the residents along Glazier Way should get a life. If the biggest concern in their life is complaining about shuttle buses driving on a public road, they should be thankful. There are much more serious issues to be worried about. One solution for these precious residents would be to go volunteer at the VA--then they wouldn't be at home to hear the noise.
Major
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
Elitist snob attitudes...how very Ann Arbor of you people on GLACIER WAY!
MichMash
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
Why would they delete this. It's a legitimate opinion. Funny how much censoring the liberal press engages in. Actually, it's scary.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:59 p.m.
Well said....and not deleted. Wow.
clownfish
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
This NIMBYISM would Never happen in Grosse Pointe or Franklin!
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:05 p.m.
Surprised the comment cops allowed this. I posted a similar comment earlier and it was removed in the blink of an eye.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:27 p.m.
It's too bad that having two 12 inch subwoofers in the trunk isn't as popular as it used to be, it would be nice to organize a little cruise while listening to some good ol' gangsta rap with the volume cranked to 11. Anyone? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. In this case the grease refers to loud music and the wheel refers to the aforementioned neighborhood. Just sayin...
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:17 p.m.
It ain't about the vets. The article states, "Two shuttles run on a continuous loop from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., transporting VA employees between the hospital the church." It does not mention transporting veterans or patients. It is about the EMPLOYEES of the VA hospital, not the veterans. No homeowners or rentere desire increased noise at 6 AM going past thier homes. Why is it a continuous loop, instead of timed shifts? Why mostly empty big buses? Why not mini vans? This business of it being about veterans is a red herring, a false argument. I support veterans very much, more so than most people in Ann arbor, but this is about the EMPLOYEES of the VA in Ann Arbor, not vets, and homeowners
jeff4179
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:46 p.m.
Just because they aren't transporting veterans doesn't mean it's not about the veterans. They are transporting the people who work in the hospital where they take care of veterans! So, your extremely literal, technical argument aside, it is about the veterans.
Adam Betz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:44 p.m.
I disagree it's a "red herring" Silly Sally. Please reference my earlier post about why it is important to the veterans that utilize the hospital. If you have visited the hospital and it's parking structures, you'll understand my point.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:35 p.m.
Hmmmm....who do you think these "Employees" (aka health care workers) are taking care of? Who are they making room for? What service does the VA Hospital provide and for whom? The service is for veterans. Maybe the affluent neighbors can take up a collection to buy better buses. Or build a parking lot.
Stephen Landes
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:16 p.m.
I doubt we can alter the attitude of people who are complaining about shuttle bus noise by making them even more uncomfortable (loud music and other suggestions). However, there are a lot of people commenting on this article -- enough to make a real difference. I suggest that all of us take some positive action by supporting the VA and our troops in the field: donate time and money to the VA, send a package to a service member in Afghanistan, hire a Vet, write a letter in support of the VA to your Congressman or Senator, and then tell AnnArbor.com about what you chose to do. Let that be your response to this situation and we'll show much support for our Veterans there is in this community.
Stephen Landes
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:34 p.m.
Gramma I don't think our current Veterans can wait for all wars to be ended. They need our help now. They don't need what in my opinion is pointless, if desirable, moralizing.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:02 p.m.
We might consider putting an end to wars, then, eventually none of this would be an issue for anyone
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:28 p.m.
Didn't read this comment till after I posted mine below, but I like your idea way better. Although mine sounds like more fun.
Ron Granger
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.
Those Veterans fought for the right to buy a home and live in peace and quiet. They fought for an America where people aren't bullied by governments or businesses that want to take their land, or abuse it for commercial interests. Whether it is employee parking, trash dumps, or anything else. The church is abusing their neighbors' by using a residential road to make a quick buck, with no regard for their neighbors or the community.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6 p.m.
I always thought that "fighting for democracy" meant fighting to have the needs of all people in this country met. Certainly, we are not fighting only to protect the desires of the rich and powerful. If I (or anyone) cannot use a public road, then my rights are being abused.
Thick Candy Shell
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.
Not only is it not a "residential road", the Michigan Department of Transportation certifies it as a "City Major. In addition, the Federal Highway Administration classifies this section as a "Major Collector".
Informed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:57 p.m.
Unfortunately, many do not understand how the process works. The government issues a need and asks that those who can meet the need respond. The church saw a need of its community and offered to help. If many more had done so and at a cost that is reasonable to the government which is supported by taxpayers... then maybe VA would not have contracted with the church to fulfill this need.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:18 p.m.
Gee. I wasn't aware that a vehicle using a public road constituted "government bullying" Imagine my shock. These folks are just a bunch of NIMBYs. Good Night and Good Luck
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:15 p.m.
It's not a "residential road."
Seasoned Cit
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:09 p.m.
Wow, I can hardly wait for winter and they request that noisy snow plows don't come up their "semi-private"l Road.. Why doesn't the VA contract with the City or University to run the shuttles. Those buses are bigger.. not painted so patriotic, but could be noiser! Should school buses arriving on Huron Parkway be asked to come later in the day to reduce noise that might wake up folks in the condo's? Come on.. another reason why no one wants to run for City Council. Maybe we could get some federal money to do a study.
Sallyxyz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
Just to add another comment: I agree with the posters that this is a non-problem for a bunch of elitists living in an enclave on Glazier Way. I will add that the VA has been expanding its staff in recent years, which is a good thing for the community, but they have not planned quickly enough for increased parking. The new parking garage referred to in the article has not been started, and the current construction on Fuller is for a new wing, not parking. In the last few years with the greatly increased staff at the VA and inadequate parking, the staff have been parking illegally on Fuller Road and illegally in the adjacent apartment parking lots across from the VA on Fuller. This is causing problems for the apartment building residents who are having increased difficulty parking in the lots by their buildings. The busing of VA staff to a parking lot on Glazier is an attempt to solve the parking problem, but the VA needs to move more quickly on building the new parking garage. I have seen plenty of folks in white coats or scrubs parking illegally in apartment building parking lots on Fuller and walking over to the VA. This is a real problem, but I doubt these docs will ride a VA bus to a church parking lot on Glazier Way. How inconvenient! Better to inconvenience the residents of the apartment buildings! The VA really needs to build more parking for its staff sooner rather than later.
Gary Lillie
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:31 p.m.
Regarding moving more quickly. Do you recall that the $185 million VAMC addition was held up for 18 months by Ann Arbor city council because of debates over whether five oak trees, that the city forester said were dying, could be cut down in order for Fuller Road to be rerouted? Perhaps some of the same people complaining about the buses were complaining about the expansion, too. At least I talked to two of the dissenters ousted city hall one evening after a public hearing. One of them complained that the veterans needing health care brought it on themselves by smoking and drinking. In answer to my question of course, he had never been to war. Incidentally, at just 3% inflation the cost of debating those trees cost taxpayers $8,325,000. We could have surrounded Ann Arbor with forests for that amount of money (please - do not send me a mathematical equation complete with costs disputing the comment that we could actually have surrounded ourselves with forests).
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:54 p.m.
If the VA does build a parking lot, a lot of people will be complaining that park land is being destroyed to build it. Personally, I think it is much better to use land that is already paved and used for parking than to pour concrete or blacktop on land that is currently filled with grass and trees. Maybe the Glazier Way folks would be willing to have parking lot along Glazier Way.
Informed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:15 p.m.
Sallyxyz, 1. The Ann Arbor VA applied a long time ago for the funds to build the parking structure necessary to accommodate its growth. They have not been approved for the funding by officials. 2. The 'new wing' is actually a new Emergency Department to accommodate the increased number of veterans that they see in the currently small 8 bed room. That construction project was approved by officials and funded. 3. The folks in the white coats are primarily U of M staff members that drive from the U's hospital instead of taking the U's shuttles. The Ann Arbor VA is aware of its parking problem and is doing everything it can to solve it. Unfortunately, there is much red tape as with any government dealing.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:31 p.m.
The city could have donated their art money for the VA to have better parking facilities, eh? I'm guessing there's no money...the VA has been cutting BIG time. We have money for war, but not for the warriors when they come home.
UM owns
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.
I think I just found my new driving route to go from downtown to Busch's / Applebees / the Post Office / US-23!!
BHarding
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:05 p.m.
@Silly Sally, Just a thought: they must choose between having vans (and leaving behind crowds that can't fit on at shift change) or larger vehicles that use cheaper (and noisier) diesel and can accommodate small and large loads. The VA has no extra money. If someone is just getting off a 10-hour shift, they don't want to wait another half-hour just to get to their car. The driver is on the clock, getting paid, whether he's sitting still or driving, so less frequent trips aren't saving that hourly wage. @ the bothered neighbors: just another two years, right? Or help the VA find another lot for less rent.
Ron Granger
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:03 p.m.
Trying to spin this as some sort of attack on "those poor veterans", in some grand act of patriotic flag waving, is simply incredibly disingenuous. I mean, really? The parking lot is for *employees* of the business, not veterans. You might as well excuse anything the U of M hospital does by mentioning that they treat sick children, so anyone who has an issue with any aspect of their business hates sick children. We don't expect a federal agency like the VA to care about their neighbors. But the church is abusing their neighbors to make a quick buck. A lot of folks obviously didn't even bother to read the article. Specifically, the history of that road. I'll bet the residents wish they'd not paid 100% of the cost to pave it. But they probably never figured their neighbor would sell'em out for a buck.
Informed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:08 p.m.
Mr. Granger, 1. A good number of the Ann Arbor VA employees are veterans themselves or family members of veterans. 2. Law says to move the Veterans off-site. Does that seem right? The VA has said no to incoveniencing Veterans (who would then be roaming the neighborhood looking for parking and maybe knocking on neighbors' doors for direction) and instead inconveniencing the employees who are willing to make any sacrifice to serve those who born the battle. 3. The VA paid an employee to use VA supplies and repair holes and such in the road (that weren't caused by their shuttles). Unfortunately, the article fails to mention this fact. Much anger is misdirected here at the city of Ann Arbor, the church and the VA. Maybe we should look more into the state and their policies that require the residents to pay for the paving of roads such as this.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:29 p.m.
Public road? Circle: Yes No if yes, anyone can use it.
Stephen Landes
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:21 p.m.
Try reading the article with some understanding: the lot is for employees so that parking at the hospital can be made available for more patients. This means that the employees are sacrificing something to support the patients they are treating. Rather than having a parking spot close to work they are using a remote parking lot and adding to their commute time by waiting for a shuttle. The VA is all about sacrifice -- the sacrifice our Veterans make for us and now a little sacrifice the employees make for them. Join up.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:02 p.m.
Tony D. wrote: "Please note that the the people riding these shuttle buses are employees of the VA. These buses are not providing transportation for veterans receiving treatment at the hospital, and we would ask commenters not to misstate that." True enough, Tony. Of course, whether or not they are employees or vets is beside the point here, since the employees provide needed services to the vets at the VA hospital. As someone above noted very clearly, people love to support the troops so long as there is no cost to them to support the troops. That said, who are the VA employees who are riding this shuttle. Are they the highly educated and fairly affluent heart surgeons? I doubt it. The janitors? The answer to this question will likely uncover the real complaint of the Glazier Way residents. Good Night and Good Luck
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:57 p.m.
Ghost, parking at the church versus parking onsite at the hospital is based on seniority for nonmedical staff. (I'm not sure if doctors and nurses fall under the same category). But, of the 2800 employees less than 200 are doctors. A janitor with seniority has priority over anyone else with less seniority.
KeepingItReal
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
It always amazes me that the people who benefit the most from other people misery, are the ones that complain the most. This is a temporary solution, but for a veteran who lost a limb or have other health issues as a result of their military services it's a permanent situation. This reminds me of people who move next to a pig farm knowing its a pig farm but once they are there complain about the smell and expect the farmer to make the adjustments. Go figure!
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
These NIMBY complainers are also in need of care, but not at a hospital. They are afflicted by what's called, "affluenza." It can only be cured through large doses of reality. A few hours spent with the more selfless folks under the care of the VA hospital would be a good start. Good Night and Good Grief
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:54 p.m.
Glazier Way is a public street, maintained with taxpayer funds. It should be available to anyone. Public services are just that. Avoiding certain colors of vehicles (repaint the buses) to mark the turf of these landowners is unacceptable. Part of the rhetoric of the USA is that we are all equal. That these complaints by the affluent are being seriously considered by their city council rep, while disregarding the needs of others, indicates this is not so. I do not support the wars, but the soldiers and veterans are not responsible for the the wars. They should be recognized and honored for the sacrifices they have made. They should receive world class medical care, educational benefits, and just compensation for their injuries, including PTSD. They should be paid adequate salaries to support their families, who should also receive all their benefits.
Ron Granger
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:40 p.m.
"Glazier Way is a public street, maintained with taxpayer funds." The $700K cost to pave it was 100% paid by the people who live on the street. One of the great things about Ann Arbor is City Planning to maintain the quality of life. That always includes keeping residential areas - and green areas - free of commercial businesses and commercial traffic. This is one neighbor, the church, trying to make a quick buck at the expense of their neighbors.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:19 p.m.
Ummm Sally, don't the employees of the VA care for veterans?
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:13 p.m.
It ain't about the vets, the article states, :Two shuttles run on a continuous loop from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., transporting VA employees between the hospital the church." It is about EMPLOYEES of the VA. And no homeowners or rentere desire increased noise at 6 AM going past thier homes. THis business of it being about veterans is a red herring, a false argument.I support veterans very much, more so than most people in Ann arbor, but this is about EMPLOYEES of the VA in Ann Arbor, not vets.
Bogie
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
This is just another case of, what is bad about the internet. When newspaper were published on paper, there was always the problem of fitting everything in. Consequently, most bored, retired, "busy bee" complainers never reached the masses. Though unfortunate, it is entertaining. I think I will take ride through Glazier Way, with my Johnny Cash a blasting; singing along (out of key, of course)! And we're worried about taxing these people?
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:31 p.m.
This is not an either-or issue. There is room for compromise. Why does the VA have to use noisy mostly empty old broken down school buses with screeching brakes? If they had chosen minivans, this topic never would have come up. This isn't a vets ves residents issue. If it had been past a poor house (low income housing) most of these "pro vets" people such as "Cash" would be gone, as I suspect that they are anti afluent home owner, not pro vet, and, they do not go past his home. Are the vets the ones driving in these mostly empty busses? Why? THey would be treated if the hospital employees arrived at the church parking lot, waited for 5 minutes until all arrived, and then a FULL buss of 40 drove to the hospital once an hour or so. a total of 10 busses a day. THis would save driver time, gas. The vets could then drive to the VA lot to park. This is a win for the vets and the home owners.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.
Sorry, not possible. If you actually took 10 seconds to look at the pictures, that is a shuttle. Never was a school bus, never will be a shool bus. As to the screeching brakes - one person said the bus screeched. An opinion, not a fact, to strech this to somehow knowing the age and what is wrong with the bus...I find ... well, silly. "It seemed possible" is a far cry from a statement of "facts", which is what your original post was.
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:09 p.m.
@ EyeHeartA2 From the article, "..."howling, screeching shuttle buses" go by his house." Usually, screeching comes from brakes, and from ones in disrepair, often found on an older vehicle. New buses don't do usually do this. Many older yellow school busses have been painted in colors similar to what is shown in this article, so it seemed very possible.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.
Funny, the picture doesn't show an old broken down school bus? I shows a seemingly newer shuttle. I can't hear the brakes, as the picture is moslty silent and there is no mention as to the condition of the brakes in the article. Noises can come from many parts of a vehicle. How did you come across your brake data?
leezee
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:28 p.m.
Honestly, how much time do you have on your hands that you notice the shuttles to this extent? I live in this area and most of these residents live in condos or on streets that are off of Glazier Way, so it's hard for me to believe they can hear the shuttles so well. Oslund condos and Wolverhampton Street are great examples. There is traffic going up and down Glazier Way all day and night. It's hard for me to believe you can distinguish the sound each vehicle traveling that road makes from where you are. You're retired. Go out and find a constructive hobby to keep you occupied instead of wasting your time counting the vehicles that drive up and down Glazier Way and then whining about it to city officials. They have bigger and better things to worry about.
Adam Betz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:26 p.m.
While very true that these shuttles are for VA employees, it's mainly so they can provide parking at the main facility for the veterans. If this option was not available, veterans would literally have nowhere to park over there. Those of you who have been to the VA facility during the day know what I mean. People are literally parking on the grass and it is bumper to bumper full. Also, the students and staff who work at the VA are top notch and most of them truly care about what they are doing. They deserve to have some type of close parking and not have to worry about showing up to work 2 hours early in order to find a spot or be bussed in from across town. Those shuttles are the best option for now. It's not just about the veterans, it's also about the folks who service them at the VA hospital.
Tony Dearing
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
Please note that the the people riding these shuttle buses are employees of the VA. These buses are not providing transportation for veterans receiving treatment at the hospital, and we would ask commenters not to misstate that.
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:50 p.m.
Ghost, For nonmedical hospital staff parking at the hospital versus parking at the church is based on seniority.
ToddGack
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.
Man, I thought this city was all about being green and car pooling was the way to go. I guess I was wrong.
Informed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.
Since everyone is so interested in the fact of the matter... Many of the employees of the VA Ann Arbor Healthcare System are Veterans themselves and they have been provided a job as well as care at VAAAHS. It is also important to mention since everyone is interested in facts that the shuttles do not run every 5-10 minutes for 12 hours every day. I happen to know the shuttle schedule and there are only two shuttles running about every 10-20 minutes during peak hours which are from 6:00am - 9:00am and 3:00pm - 6:10pm. They run sporadically throughout the rest of the day and this is only Monday thru Friday. Many employees are parents and caregivers so need access to their vehicles should something come up and they need to get to their vehicles.
John A2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.
Either way, each and every employee has a duty to serve our vets and they are just as important.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
This is a service for veterans. They need a place to park, and this shuttle provides that for them by moving some people for them. Who rides this particular shuttle matters not. It provides a service so veterans have a place to park to receive medical treatment.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:59 p.m.
True enough, Tony. So who are the VA employees who are riding this shuttle. The highly educated heart surgeons? I doubt it. The janitors? The answer to this question will likely uncover the real complaint of the Glazier Way residents. Good Night and Good Luck
Think!
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
Thanks for making that clarification. It appears many readers didn't bother to read for content.
Brad
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:06 p.m.
"Anti-veteran whining"? Drama queen alert!
Krista Somers Boyer
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.
How I wish the biggest problem in my neighborhood was a shuttle bus! The employees on these shuttles are taking care of those who fought and served our COUNTRY!! Perhaps they should take the time to volunteer at the VA hospital, and then they would have less time to complain.
jake22
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1 p.m.
Maybe I'm missing something but as I read it, these shuttles are taking EMPLOYEES, not vets, to the hospital. Couldn't this have happened in a commercial area instead?
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:43 p.m.
@jake22 re: Maybe I'm missing something but as I read it, these shuttles are taking EMPLOYEES, not vets, to the hospital. Couldn't this have happened in a commercial area instead? "VA officials say the hospital needs the satellite parking space due to growing numbers of veterans coming in for care and rising staffing levels to meet those demands" What difference does it make it where they're shuttled from? Seriously....Would you rather have the Staff Park in VA parking lots and shuttle Vets back and forth?
John A2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:11 p.m.
Yeah does that give them different rights to our public streets.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.
Who the riders are is irrelevent. This is a public road.
Sallyxyz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1 p.m.
I've got some news for the Glazier Way Association. You live in a city, and if you want to live in a peaceful, bucolic area, then move to the county. Your little elite neighborhood successfully stopped the street Glazier Way from crossing the Huron Parkway in a sane manner with a light a few years ago, and instead the city built a ridiculous "turnaround" for anyone trying to drive on Glazier Way across Huron Parkway, because your neighborhood didn't want cars to be able to easily drive across the Huron Parkway on Glazier Way. It was a costly and dangerous solution that was implemented because the small number of elite residents of Glazier Way want to live in some kind of noise free bubble. I've got more news, everyone would like to live in a noise free bubble in the city, but that's not possible. The VA buses are serving a good purpose and expanding VA staff is also good for A2, and that's life. I live on Fuller, and I'd like to stop the noisy construction at the VA hospital over on Fuller Road, and I'd like to stop the noisy helicopters flying at all hours from the UM hospital, but that's not possible. It's called city living. You can always move to the country.
Maxwell
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:42 p.m.
These are the type of people who move out to the country and begin a campaign to shut down the centennial farm down the road because it smells bad - you know - like a farm...
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:27 p.m.
Sally: Hammer and nail. Good Job! Good Night and Good Luck
trs80
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:56 p.m.
I now know which street Im going to use when I go for a "drive." The people that complained should be ashamed of themselves.
grye
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:51 p.m.
I might spend the entire weekend just driving up and down Glazier Way just to prove the point that it is a city street, not a private road. Get a life.
tdw
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:02 p.m.
I was thinking the same thing.I think I 'll find the crappest vehicle I can find and blare the radio
DeeDee
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:50 p.m.
Cash, et al, just so you know, I don't even live in Ann Arbor, and I don't have an axe to grind here. The people who actually have to live with the noise and traffic have a point too. Yes, the vets are important, but that doesn't mean that the residents don't have a legitimate concern. My point was primarily that this doesn't have to be a left-right, pro-vet vs. pinko-commie-townie issue - we could look at solutions that actually take the needs of both groups into consideration. But, hey, go ahead and make this another reason to grow that chip on your shoulder instead of trying to bring people together. And yes, I'm being sarcastic.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:43 p.m.
It is a public road. Do we all get to choose who drives down OUR street? Why any difference here? This isn't a left or right issue.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.
Silly Sally...bad guess. I'm very pro veteran. You are as wrong as you could be....and my beloved family members lying in a cemetery near here attest to that.
Silly Sally
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:26 p.m.
Why does the VA have to use noisy mostly empty old broken down school buses with screeching brakes? If they had chosen minivans, this topic never would have come up. THis isn't a vets ves residents issue. If it had been past a poor house (low income housing) most of these "pro vets" people such as "Cash" would be gone, as I suspect that they are anti afluent home owner, not pro vet. This is not an either-or issue. There is room for compromise.
Bob Bethune
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:48 p.m.
The attitude shown by the residents of the area should not be a shock. It is typical of the attitude of the country at large. We underfund health care for veterans by about a billion dollars (see <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062301888.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062301888.html</a> for more.) We send people overseas into harms way in our interest and then hand them the short and dirty end of the stick when they come home needing care. Perhaps the folks up there on Glazier Way would like to set an example of how we should respond to veterans? It would be appreciated.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:50 p.m.
"The attitude shown by the residents of the area should not be a shock. It is typical of the attitude of the country at large." I am with you on your concern, but I really don't think it's that widespread. I think it is a loud minority that has this attitude.
John A2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.
Unbelievable, I can't believe the nerve of some hospitals, how absurd. Up and down the street all day, driving back and fourth, back and fourth. That VA hospital should be ashamed of themselves. They have the nerve to put their lives on the line for us and then come here and drive up and down my very expensive neighborhood roads. I know what your thinking, that I should be proud that they choose my hood drive in and park their employees for they can go and save the lives that helped preserve our way of life, but I paid a lot of money to have a quiet, pretty, and sheltered home. Why do I have to deal with that? Oh and the smell of diesel fuel is annoying too. Maybe I need to get real, or move somewhere else, PSYCH!
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:44 p.m.
You know.... the Phizer building has A LOT of parking that isn't being used. I'm just sayin'......I hear there are a lots of smart people in this here college town. Maybe a couple of 'dem smart fellers could figgur sumpin out.
KatiGal
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
I was all set to post my opinion on this topic, but I think the majority of the other posters expressed my thoughts more than adequately! Come on people. These are the vehicles of people serving our Veterans!!!
A2Westsider
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:27 p.m.
This reminds me of the complaining that went on years ago about the noise from the Survival Flight copters. Seriously, what's wrong with people?
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:26 p.m.
"We and our neighbors are the victims of the noise and traffic generated by this commercial enterprise," he said. "The buses literally wake us up every morning and annoy us all day long." Boo-hoo. Typical "not in my backyard" sentiment. I know, let's contact the FAA and ask them to divert any planes from flying over your house. Can't have you annoyed all day long now can we? Once you've walk a day in one of those Vets Shoes or the Staff at the VA and then you can complain.
jmac
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:25 p.m.
The VA could probably save some $$ (and antagonism, from the comments posted above and the article) by 'renting' some of the parking up at the North Campus Research Complex (formerly Pfizer) - there is an enormous amount of surface parking going unused that is just a bit further away from the VA than Huron Hills Church and is NOT close to residential neighborhoods.
Informed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:29 p.m.
I'm sure the VA would love to do so. The government must submit a request and ask for bids. The church's bid was the best option (especially for taxpayer money.) If taxpayers don't mind how much is spent so that a few are not in any way inconvenienced, please make the government is aware so they can spend as much money as possible so as not to inconvenience anyone.
Bertha Venation
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
Excellent idea! Good thinking.
james vandenbosch
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:24 p.m.
When my gravel street was paved, the residents paid the entire cost. It serves as a cut-through and gets lots of traffic - commercial and private. The description of the Glazier Way pavement costs is curious. "The paving of Glazier Way, formerly a gravel road, was completed in the fall of 2000 after a year and a half of construction. Anytime gravel roads are upgraded to pavement in Ann Arbor, property owners pay 100 percent of the costs through special assessments. City Assessor David Petrak said about 110 properties along Glazier Way were assessed to pay for nearly $700,000 in costs on the project, and the church was included in that." My recollection is that the residents complained so loudly that they did not pay the entire cost of the pavement. Was the $700,000 actually 100% of the costs or did affluence hold sway then too?
A2frank
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:47 p.m.
Did you pay with a loss of your leg, arm ???
Tony Dearing
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:12 p.m.
A number of comments have been removed because they violated our conversation guidelines. While we welcome strongly worded opinion, please do not resort to name-calling, insults or personal attacks. Thanks.
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.
Hey Tony, Whad'ya expect? These complaining folks probably think more of their pets than their vets. I think that "deserves" a little foul language and name calling.
MyOpinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
You might want to edit the featured posts. The third most popular post (highlighted) is one that has been banned. It looks kind of silly up there.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
Yea, but at least you don't have to worry about bus noise.... Sheesh.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:48 p.m.
I hope you had your morning coffee, Tony! On this article, you could have a long morning.
UM owns
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:11 p.m.
If you want peace and quiet on your roads, live in Dexter. Not Ann Arbor.
mayalynn
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:04 p.m.
What a great arrangement this is, allowing both employees and patients to access the VA. We need more cooperative arrangements like this, where folks come together to solve common problems. As our population ages, the folks on Glazier Way might begin to wish for public transportation closer to home. it would be helpful for many of us to have more buses throughout town and the surrounding townships, not fewer.
Adam Betz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:03 p.m.
Is Jack Gladney serious?
Jack Gladney
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:08 p.m.
Shirley, you can' t be serious... seriously?
Bob
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:02 p.m.
Wow. Is it true that the road they chose to live on is being used as a - road? Maybe the VA should consider longer routes and use more gas but help the economy? Somebody, please, find something useful for these people to do!
Isanopinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:01 p.m.
Dear Veterans, I will be honored to let you use my driveway to park in so you can get the medical care you deserve. Heck, I'll even drive you to your appointments. I know my neighbors will not complain about the additional traffic that will cause. Probably some of them will help drive you also!!
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 2:16 p.m.
VA hospital always can use more volunteers, they are the folks driving the shuttles.
DBH
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.
Not much of an offer, is it, unless you provide your address?
Wolf's Bane
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:01 p.m.
Time to take my Hog up and down Residents along Glazier Way at 7 am in the mornoing! Hehehe...
mike gatti
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:17 a.m.
Please open up the carburetor before you go.
Bob Krzewinski
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : noon
As a Navy veteran, this story shows just how shallow much of the "support the troops" talk is.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:25 p.m.
@Bob: And you're shocked by this? As a 25-year veteran of the US Army, I always understood that I had the support of my country so long as people didn't have to pay more taxes for my service. Good Night and Good Luck
Adam Betz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.
Hey guys, sorry about the noise in your neighborhood. I know what you mean. With IED's, gunfire and rockets in Iraq being slung at me, I can certainly feel your pain. I'm about to leave on another deployment to Afghanistan this fall. I'll see if I can ask the Taliban to quiet down a bit and let you know how we worked things out. Maybe if they quiet down, we can just close the A2 VA hospital altogether. Afterall, I don't want you to have to wait in traffic in this heat. I know what it's like sitting in traffic in 120 degree heat not knowing which car is laden with explosives and driven by a terrorist who wants to turn you into pink mist or send you back to Ann Arbor with no limbs or face. It is a similar and equally awful experience for you as well, I'm sure. The A2 VA hospital is one of the best in the country and I'm lucky to be a resident of Washtenaw county and a be an OIF/OEF vet. They have always taken better care of me than any civilian hospital....and they understand me.
Bill
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 8:03 p.m.
Thank you for your service. I'm glad that you enjoy living in this area even though you must put up with some that feel they are better than those who have given so much for our country. I would love to see what would happen to Ann Arbor without the companies which seem to annoy so many of the residents - VA Hospital, U of M, etc. I suspect without some of these major employers Ann Arbor would be a much smaller and certainly insignificant town, not city, in Michigan.
J. A. Pieper
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 7:57 p.m.
Adam, thank you for giving your input. As the daughter of a soldier who went away for Vietnam, I greatly appreciate what you and every military person is doing for our country. No one should complain, the rights and comforts we have as a country (wars not being fought here) come at a great price, and you are one who is willing to stand up for the life we have. Maybe these affluent people have never lost a family member, or had to use a VA hospital, or just don't like their perfect life minimized a little.
julieswhimsies
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:45 p.m.
Thank you for your service, Adam. You deserve all the good life has to offer.
Stephen Landes
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:08 p.m.
Adam, Thank you for your service for all of us. You and all our service men and women are in my prayers and those of hundreds of thousands of other Americans. What you and our outstanding volunteer military are doing for our Country means that fewer and fewer of your fellow citizens can truly understand what you are experiencing. That is both a blessing and a curse -- a blessing for those who don't understand and a curse at times for people like you because none of us can really know what you've been through.
Krista Somers Boyer
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.
Adam, my family and I thank you for your service. May God watch over you and ALL who serve.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:33 p.m.
Adam, Thank you for what you are doing for us. I have to say, as a 66 year old woman, I cried when I read your post. My greatest fear was that our military folks would read this article. Please know that many us us would jump out and WAVE if we saw this bus coming by our houses! You are in my prayers, seriously.
Jack Gladney
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.
Adam. Thank you for your service to our country. And yes... my tounge was firmly planted in cheek. My comment was to say, "get a grip, people."
A2frank
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.
I think every Vet is SE Michigan should drive through an honk their horns thanking them for appreciating our families service!
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:28 p.m.
Me three!! And I'm glad we have a map here to show us the way!
SonnyDog09
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.
I'll be playing The Stars and Stripes Forever very loudly when I drive through the neighborhood.
Isanopinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:03 p.m.
I think every citizen that APPRECIATES the Vets should drive through this neighborhood to say hi. Does anyone have a super loud stereo system I can borrow?
genericreg
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:55 a.m.
Affluent make no differents. Now I think I drive through neighborhood often. Honk horn to say hello.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:27 p.m.
Bwahhaa....now that's FUNNY!
Lynn Glazewski
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:54 a.m.
Why doesn't the VA offer to pay Geddes Lake to drive the shuttles through their property. and have the city open the gate from GL to Glazier and the church parking lot? Geddes Lake could sorely use the money, as the city does not maintain the sewers per a previous agreement, and taxes the heck out of GL due to the large amount of open land surrounding the condos. It would get the shuttles off Glazier Way, be a win-win for overstrapped Geddes Lakes residents.
Seriously??
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:54 a.m.
Guess where our motorcycle group will be riding this weekend in support of the veterans??
snapshot
Sat, Jul 30, 2011 : 2:13 p.m.
Seriously, I'm a vet with a set of "short shots" that'll break the sound barrier if I throttle up. Tell me when, I'll be there to make some noise.
Seriously??
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:47 a.m.
I'm thinking meet at Huron High School Saturday morning around 9:30 or 10am? Let me know!!! Let your friends know! I know the shuttles are for the employees going to and from the VA, but remember that they are going there to help our VETERANS! Without the soldiers who have fought and who are still fighting we wouldn't even be able to discuss this right now!!
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:09 p.m.
Great idea!
Listen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 6:23 p.m.
Sweet idea! You really should post the time your crew will be riding....you'll have plenty of folks join you if you do (including me!). Meet at the VA?
julieswhimsies
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:41 p.m.
YES!!!
Haggis_Chihuahua
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:16 p.m.
Good for you. I'll alert my motorcycle riding friends. Hopefully they'll join you.
Paul Taylor
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:11 p.m.
Hopefully we can all know the time, so we can join the parade. My 99 Escort with the aging muffler wouldn't mind pulling up the rear.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:59 p.m.
Dude!! That's just perfect. You should let people know when you're going to be there so we can cheer you on!
Wolf's Bane
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
I'll remove my baffles just cause.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.
Love it! And remember to "accidentally" leave those mufflers at home! Good Night and Good Riding!
Bertha Venation
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:39 p.m.
ALRIGHT!! NOW you're talkin'.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.
PLEASE!!!! Good Night and Good Luck
NorthsideHobbit
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.
Priceless!!
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:26 p.m.
AMEN!!!! I salute you and your group!!!
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.
"...was once designated a "Natural Beauty Road" back in the 1980s..." I remember the road before it was paved and it truly was a beautiful drive. But the road stopped being beautiful when it was paved. It was then downgraded to "kinda nice". I think it is important to note that the VA did NOT have anything to do with the decision to pave Glazier. That was a decision made by Ann Arbor city government. Yeah, I know...it had to be paved so firetrucks could safely traverse the road....blah, blah, blah...
a2citizen
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:41 p.m.
Sallyxyz, I know it sounds ridiculous. But honestly, when you approached from the east as you came down the hill there was a panoramic view of the countryside. You had to see it to believe it. I actually took that route to football games and my friends were shocked the first time they saw the view. They couldn't believe it and that route became part of our Saturday morning tradition in the autumn. I don't think the residents cared about snowplows. If you lived in that type of setting you took the good with the bad. And I'm not defending the residents. I couldn't care less. Paved roads are the price you pay for living in the city.
Sallyxyz
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:19 p.m.
How is a dirt road on a steep hill a "beautiful" drive with dust and stones and gravel? Paving it was a safety issue for snow removal, fire trucks and other emergency vehicles. But of course this elite enclave fought the paving because they did not want increased traffic and apparently didn't care about the safety of drivers. Oh wait. There are so many doctors living in this enclave off Glazier, they could treat any injuries on the spot! No need for emergency vehicles to get though the street! Did the elite enclave residents also plan to do their own snow plowing when trucks couldn't get through? Of course it needed to be paved, but there should have been a stoplight installed at the intersection of Glazier and the Parkway, not a dangerous turnaround.
MyOpinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:51 a.m.
NIMBY. NIMBY. NIMBY. Because you live in an especially nice neighborhood, you've been spared the typical intrusions many others in Ann Arbor experience (traffic, football traffic, construction, detours that hurt businesses, burglaries, unkempt lots/yards, etc. I guess the neighbors are suggesting that the VA find a church parking lot in a more commercial neighborhood - even if it is further away/takes longer for the shuttle. Or maybe, the VA should use electric golf carts from Leslie Golf Course. Those are pretty quiet. This is temporary. Share the pain.
clownfish
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:50 a.m.
Just curious, should a supply sergeant be able to play death metal at 3:00am because he is a vet? Which rules and norms are vets allowed to avoid due to service? Is there a list? Do the employees of the VA get special treatment as well? Why is the church able to operate a commercial enterprise tax free? This rental has nothing to due with religion.
Paul Taylor
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
Clownfish, I think you don't fully understand or appreciate the berth afforded nonprofits under the tax code. This could easily pass tax muster.
clownfish
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
The shuttle is not commercial, but the transaction between the VA and the church is. -- jcj at 8:41 AM on July 27, 2011 You did not answer the question: Should a supply depot staffer be able to blast death metal at 3:00 am BECAUSE he is a vet? Which rules/regs are vets able to ignore because they served in the military? The vets get "special treatment" at the VA, treatment that I as a non-vet do not receive free or at reduced cost. I am in now way "anti-vet" nor do I think they should not receive treatment for injuries received while serving. However, veterans DO get special treatment in our society, they get VA medical care, they get special treatment in some employment opportunities, they get VA loans etc. I was not aware that one benefit for being a vet was the ability to annoy ones neighbors.
Alana Meggitt
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2 p.m.
Why does everyone believe that this shuttle is commercial, it isn't, it's a service for those that work at a non profit hospital... There is no commercial in that...
aawolve
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:45 p.m.
Please read stories before posting in the comments. You'll find it's a good way to find some of the answers that you seek.
jcj
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:41 p.m.
Stop in at the hospital and see what kind of "special treatment" the vets get!
YpsiLivin
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:41 a.m.
It's a PUBLIC road, which means the PUBLIC (including the VA, its employees, and the church) can use it without the express written consent of the neighbors. (And rush hour probably isn't the best time to gauge the maximum use of the shuttle bus by VA employees. Most hospitals operate on shifts, which are well underway by the time the commuter rush hours start.)
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:38 a.m.
DeeDee, The part of your post .... "That paint job is pretty "loud" too. Maybe something less obtrusive?" Yes there is nothing more obtrusive than the red and white stripes and the stars.... of our American flag. And get rid of that American eagle!! How tacky!!! I do hope you were working at being sarcastic there. Because I am.
Jack
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:29 a.m.
Wow, I didn't realize we had the right to control traffic in the City. Or is that only for certain social classes? I would like to have all the cars and buses on Stadium Road cease making noise. It bothers me. Somehow I don't think any Council members would be eager to help me. Now, why is that?
Basic Bob
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:41 p.m.
Speed humps.
Arboriginal
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:29 a.m.
To the resident of the LUXURY condo that was built just off of a MAJOR thoroughfare (Huron Parkway). Chin Up! Are any of these home parcels still in an island of township? Just wondering.
JS
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:03 p.m.
I sold a home on Glazier Way a few years back and it was one of the very few left still in a township island. Whenever one of those islands is sold it almost certainly gets folded into the city, and it's a huge process. but to answer your question, maybe, but I don't think it could be more than a couple.
HappySenior
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:26 a.m.
An elitist enclave in Ann Arbor--who would have thought? City Council Member Stephen Rapundalo, D-2nd Ward says he is "sympathetic" as the residents of Glazier Way bring pressure to bear to keep the likes of the rest of us out of their neighborhood. Isn't Rapundalo facing a primary pretty soon? Would the residents of the 2nd Ward please consider carefully if this is the person they want representing them. I remain proud of the veterans of US military. I thank them for their service and their sacrifice. I believe they deserve the highest quality of medical care available, as well as our respect. I believe the medical personnel, staff, guests, and patients deserve easy access to the hospital. If that means having to ride in a shuttle bus ride from an outlying parking lot because there is no room in the hospital lot, then that's what should happen.
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:08 p.m.
Yes, Tim Hull should be performing somersaults over his opponent's unwise statements.
A2comments
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:19 a.m.
While the use of the word "affluent" was a poor choice, if this went through your neighborhood as frequently, you'd be upset also. Having a govt agency rent spaces on private property and thereby bypassing zoning rules is total BS. The valuable work that the VA does has nothing to do with this issue. There are other lots that would be less invasive, and less frequent trips would also help the situation, as well as tweaking the hours.
Some Guy in 734
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 5:09 p.m.
If it went through my neighborhood that frequently, I'd seriously question why they were going so far out of the way to get from A to B.
Gramma
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:22 p.m.
In my neighborhood, I hear police and ambulance sirens 24 hours a day. Sure it is noisy, but I know that it contributes to public safety. I can hear the train whistles, which actually I love. When a siren goes by, I remember that I am a member of a community, not the sole occupant.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:21 p.m.
Glazier Way between the VA and the church is NOT a neighborhood street. There are very few residential structures on that stretch of the road. Feeder streets to some VERY hoity toity developments link to Glazier. Wouldn't want the great unwashed masses even that close you your home, I suppose. Good Night and Good Luck
Donald Martin
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:52 p.m.
The valuable work that the VA does have *everything* to do with this issue. These people have no respect. Their sense of entitlement is only available to them because of what the veterans did to secure their freedoms. Some nerve!
Bob Bethune
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:34 p.m.
No, the word "affluent" was exactly correct. That neighborhood is one of the wealthiest in Ann Arbor, which is not exactly a low-income city. "The valuable work that the VA does" has EVERYTHING to do with this story. The people who live in that neighborhood should be out on the curb cheering every bus that goes by. "Ungrateful" barely begins to cover it.
Mike
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:07 p.m.
Look, the government bugs all of us in one way or another. People are OK with big government until it intersects with their lives. You want the VA to drive through someone else's neighborhood and they want them to drive through yours. Buy some ear plugs or move to a quieter neighborhood.
dogman32
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:55 a.m.
Name one alternative lot, please.
outdoor6709
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:19 a.m.
Residents of AA support a county wide tax for public transportation, yet they do not want busses in their neighborhood. Another fine AA example of do as I say, not as I do.
Jack Gladney
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:18 a.m.
We need to do more to eradicate the problem of having military veterans degrading the quality of life in the great city. It is simply disgusting what their prescence here is doing to Ann Arbor. Closing the VA Hospital would be a good first step in the right direction. Please show some leadership on this issue, Mr. Mayor.
Jack Gladney
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:34 a.m.
Oh... And while we're improving the quality of life in Ann Arbor... I am guessing that the church has an organ of some type that makes a lot of noise on Sunday mornings as well. And tell those kids to keep off my lawn, dang nabbit!
timbow
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:12 a.m.
"We and our neighbors are the victims of the noise and traffic generated by this commercial enterprise," he said. "The buses literally wake us up every morning and annoy us all day long." Your poor, poor 'victims'. Life can be rough, but your 'annoyance' is hardly the definition of this. You should move to Mackinaw where shuttle buses are outlawed, but then you'd have to put up with tourists instead of veterans and horses and their annoyances. Guess you should deal with it.
jns131
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
Lets see, horses or buses? Either way you smell it or step in it or both. Interesting thought to life up north. I much prefer a quiet polluting bus then finding out I have to pick up horse hockey. Live with it Glacier or Glazer or whatever you are now calling yourselves.
DeeDee
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:11 a.m.
How about silent, electric buses VA?? This would get rid of the noise issue and reduce carbon emissions. That paint job is pretty "loud" too. Maybe something less obtrusive? Surely this could be settled without turning it into a local or national political issue. Why do all these comments have to focus on what is most divisive in the discussion?
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:49 p.m.
@Dee DEE That paint job is pretty "loud" too Perfect solution.... Camouflage paint, Outta sight, outta mind.
Mike
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:03 p.m.
All of the complainers can pool their money together to buy these electric buses instead of the taxpayers since you're the one being bugged by them.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:25 a.m.
Yes, Dee Dee. Let's not talk about the pain and suffering of our vets. That's ....unpleasant. Let's paint the bus and buy a quieter one. Unbelievable.
a2trader
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:03 a.m.
Maybe they can try to run fewer shuttles. But, if this is a public road, which it appears to be since tax dollars will fund any eventual resoration, it can be used by anyone in the public....not just the neighborhood residents. They are lucky it was designed to discourage cut-throughs. I have to wonder if all the publicity the neighborhood is creating here will only bring the route to the attention of others looking for a cut through.
Ann English
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:27 p.m.
It is a way to get from Huron Parkway to the south over to the stores on Green and Plymouth without encountering traffic signals. I believe in using cut throughs.
sweetdaddy1963
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:03 a.m.
Oh you poor people life is so tuff people driving thru your neighbor hood try living in th "Hood" please why even report this...
Isanopinion
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:03 a.m.
You have got to be kidding me. How loud can the buses be? I bet these are the same people who complain about the police siren too. These rich, snooty, elderly folks need to close their windows and go back to playing backgammon and ignore the buses.
mike gatti
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 12:08 a.m.
Hey man, that was harsh. I know some really nice people who play backgammon.
Rob
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:58 a.m.
Which "commercial enterprise" is the resident referring to? Certainly not the VA, which doesn't exactly exist to make a profit. Also, calling himself a victim is ore the top. Glazier may not be a major road, but it is a through street, which means it gets traffic. If you have a problem with that, you should live in one of the dozens of cookie cutter subdivisions filled with dead ends and cul-de-sacs that An Arbor has to offer.
Chip Reed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:56 a.m.
When I was a kid, there was still a narrow-gauge railroad running through that area. I recall it being rather noisy (although it didn't run every 5 or 10 minutes).
garrisondyer
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 4:44 p.m.
Some of the tracks are still in the area, or at least were back in the late 90s. That was back when my cross country team used to run on the unpaved Glazier Way hills, and would once or twice a season go for a good mud run through the forest back in the neighborhood. We always wondered about those tracks.
jns131
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:50 p.m.
Bring back the nosy railroad. Maybe that will give em something more to complain about?
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
And now it would seem seem the only thing narrow left there...are a few minds, perhaps.
Alan Goldsmith
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:49 a.m.
"If this is allowed to stand in one of the more affluent neighborhoods in Ann Arbor, then no neighborhood is safe." Good lord, once the affluent neighborhoods go down, it's like a series of dominoes and it could hit the REST of us poor folks who live here and pay taxes too. Oh my GOD. Lol. This quote is the perfect snapshot example of what 'affluent' in Ann Arbor is all about. Thanks for making your argument such an easy target.
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:28 p.m.
LOL. "Granolas"....can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em
InsideTheHall
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:46 a.m.
AATA should be handling this transport, they will need all the revenue they can get to fund the MEGA over priced, waste of money, Regional Transit Plan that we are about to be force fed.
Chip Reed
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:40 a.m.
"If this is allowed to stand in one of the more affluent neighborhoods in Ann Arbor, then no neighborhood is safe." Perhaps not the best choice of words considering that we are talking about the welfare of veterans who gave quite a bit to keep this attractive neighborhood safe in the first place.
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:06 p.m.
Very poor choice of words indeed. It implies the wealth of a neighborhood's residents are material in how much noise is to be tolerated. In other words, the poorer the neighborhood the more noise and other annoying behavior homeowners should be expected to endure. What political theory is Steve Rapundalo subscribing to?
Alan Goldsmith
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:38 a.m.
"AnnArbor.com observed during Tuesday's rush hour that the shuttles came and went from the church parking lot about every 5 to 10 minutes, often with only three or four VA employees at a time." Maybe, if the AnnArbor.com reporter has time in his busy journalistic schedule, he can stop by the actual VA Medical Center, and observe the outstanding quality of care the facility has provided wounded and elderly military veterans for the last several decades. It would also be nice if the members of this upscale neighborhood would show a bit more appreciation for the folks who put their lives on the line and be a bit more tolerant of this short term situation. This anti-veteran whining, especially from the people in this article shouldn't be taken an a reflection of the REST of us in this city. And Council Member Stephen Rapundalo would be wise if he didn't try to pander to a handful of these disrespectful folks and was a bit more supportive of an organization that employees well over a thousand people either, since he's running for reelection.
say it plain
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 1:24 a.m.
Lol...Rapundalo stands to gain way more by pandering to the wealthy elderly on Glazier Way than showing respect to Vets and VA employees, as I'd imagine the teed-off residents will be Ward 2 voters in force...
Roadman
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:01 p.m.
Alan Goldsmith should disclose that he is employed by the Veteran's Adminstration.
Cash
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:19 a.m.
"However, Ratliff said, he thinks the VA should try to find other parking lots to lease space from without destroying the peace in what he considers one of Ann Arbor's prettiest neighborhoods." You do realize that your beautiful neighborhood might not exist or have PEACE at all if not for veterans of foreign wars, correct? And in gratitude you don't want them taking a shuttle through your neighborhood to get health care for a couple of years? So the neighbors don't like noise? How do you "neighbors" think the veterans like the sound of explosives and gunfire around them why fighting for YOUR freedom? How do you think some of them coming home without their limbs felt about that imposition? Unbelievable. Talk about your spoiled rotten Americans.
Jarhead
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 : 2:16 a.m.
Wow! I'm really posting late on this one. Great post Cash People need to know some things. The patients that use the VA are up 40% in 2010 over 2009. There are only so many parking places. Some have to be shuttled. Instead of shuttling vets, many who can't walk well, the staff is being shuttled. One more way the staff of this hospital sacrifices for the vets. Many of the staff work long hours and stay late to service these patients. I know, I'm a patient. People don't understand that the Veterans Affairs are under constant attack from congress to cut aid and funds. Getting appropiatte monies to build a new parking structure takes an eternity. Hence the temporary church deal. I don't mind the VA has a contract with the church. Churches do wonderful programs for others in need. One person complained that he dosen't get free or reduced medical at his hospital. I stepped on a landmine. Want to trade legs? I know Adam Betz. He is one of our brightest and best servicemen who represents the US in an OUTSTANDING manor. Semper Fi Adam, Semper Fi!
jns131
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 3:48 p.m.
I agree with this post too. What a bunch of numb skulls you are. They are not loud, the muffler is in good shape and I don't see what all the bally who is over a simple shuttle. There is no peace disturbance at all. Get real neighbors, we have a lot of cars that go thru our neighborhood and you don't see us getting our panties twisted. Take a chill pill Ann Arbor denizens and remember this, you wouldn't have a house or a place to live if the British won.
Major
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:29 p.m.
As usual, you nailed it Cash!
Ron Granger
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.
Did you even read the part of the article that said this shuttle is only for employees? Patients and their families do not park in this lot, or take the shuttle.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:18 p.m.
A2comments wrote: "You are so off the mark it's not funny. This is about the church knowingly turning the road into a commuter route" Gee. I thought that, by definition, roads WERE commuter routes. Silly me. Or are you complaining about the fact that it is the great unwashed masses who are doing the commuting though the hoity toity Glazier Way neighborood? Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 1:15 p.m.
Well said, Cash. Good Night and Good Luck
Madhatter
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:58 p.m.
I am extremely offended by the actions of these "neighbors." The soldiers and veterans on that shuttle bus fought so we didn't have to. They keep countless terrorists and bad people out of our country so we can all live in peace. The lease we can do is let them ride a shuttle bus to the hospital so they can get better. I have never heard such disrespect over a petty and ridiculous issue. I want all the troops to know that many of us are thankful and proud. I'm sorry there are some that don't understand how truly important you really are. I think a march on Glazier Way should be organized to show our support for these troops. We can all buy flags and walk peacefully through that b"beautiful" neighborhood in a single file line with our hands connected to the flags. It would resemble one line united in support of the veterans. Maybe someone can set up a banner that says "thank you" or some sort of message. I am completely serious about setting this march up. Please post on here if you are interested in organizing.
tdw
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:57 p.m.
I usually don't agree with you but this time spot on 100%
Madhatter
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:50 p.m.
Cash, we have disagreed on many things, but it seems we can both agree on our patriotism. I totally agree with you on this one. The people complaining are a disgrace to the community for being so disrespectful to sick and injured veterans. SHAME!
areyoukiddingme
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 12:27 p.m.
Well said. I couldn't agree with you more.
Mike
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : noon
Cash, I don't think I've ever agreed with you on anything but you've got this one right. Change the route and someone else's nirvana will be interrupted.
A2comments
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 11:09 a.m.
You are so off the mark it's not funny. This is about the church knowingly turning the road into a commuter route, and then the city throwing its hands in the air over the zoning violation with the "federal agency" BS. Had the church had the courtesy to check w the city this may have been avoided.
Alan Goldsmith
Wed, Jul 27, 2011 : 10:39 a.m.
@Cash. You hit the nail RIGHT on the head.