Posted on Thu, Oct 27, 2011 : 7:40 p.m.
Founding members of Students for a Democratic Society to lead talk at Occupy Ann Arbor site
By AnnArbor.com Staff
Grass-roots organizers Alan Haber and Odile Huguenot-Haber will be leading a discussion of revolutionary thought and action with the Occupy Ann Arbor protestors at 6 p.m. Tuesday at Ann Arbor’s Liberty Plaza, according to a news release.
Alan Haber
The public is invited to this discussion.
The first full-time Occupy Ann Arbor protestors camped out at Liberty Plaza starting Oct. 12.
The Occupy movement began in mid-September with the Occupy Wall Street protest in lower Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park. The movement has exploded across the country and worldwide.
Comments
AreaNative
Thu, Nov 1, 2012 : 6:17 p.m.
I don't see what tent cities have to do with bad financial laws, policies, and behaviors. I think it would make more sense for Occupy to do teach-ins. Maybe the original SDSers could show them how. Of course I don't know what the original SDSers were like. By the late Sixties when I attended the U of M, the SDSers were idiots who clearly had authority complexes. They really were a laughing stock.
godsbreath64
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.
Did you see the picture of all of those dud bombs that filled a gymnasium the mostly hut people of North Vietnam wanted to display for mass media? A half Century later, I don't think there has been anyone younger than Tom Hayden given the editorship at the Michigan Daily. UM alumni and then US Defense Secretary Robert McNamera was finding new ways to fill our bombers to the brim. Did I mention mostly hut people never have had air forces to threaten US homeland? I think Professor Ayers is still teaching his calling, education, collegiality. He was when he spoke a few years back. Hope so. And then there was the beautiful Diana Oughton. Contrary the "ArborComment" attempt to spear the dead, died while in the process of saving the innocent public from the bomb makers. Thank you to Alan and Odile for their beautiful organizing of America.
Arborcomment
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 9:34 p.m.
Sigh, 48 notes, 16 references, written via consensus by users of the medium decidedly more liberal yet not fitting into your perception of reality.
godsbreath64
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:17 p.m.
I have more self esteem then to don't respond to wikibots.
Arborcomment
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 5:41 p.m.
If it was a smear godsbreath, then I suggest you have much work to do on wikipedia to correct what is listed there. Ayers, and only Ayers states that there was an argument between the bomb makers in that townhouse. It appeared to center around whether the bombs were to be "anti-personnel" (i.e. With nails attached) or just plain explosive. The target was to be the Army Non Commissioned Officers Ball at Ft. Dix, you know where wives and family members would be present. Better get busy on wiki!
Roadman
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 11:50 p.m.
A lot of people do not realize that it was Alan Haber who was well-known to J. Edgar Hoover as a master organizer of the New Left in the 1960s. He recruited at U-M as a graduate student many, many of the people who would shape the antiwar and civil rights movement of that era. That includes Bill Ayres, Tom Hayden, Diana Oughton and numerous others that would eventually become household names. He also attempted to link the antiwar forces with the black civil rights movement and he promoted Eldridge Cleaver. He spent quite a bit of time in New York and Berkley during that era. He was truly one of the most influential organizers of the radical movement of that era. Today at 75, he is stil active at the grassroots level attending City Council meetings and promoting local candidates and causes.
Arborcomment
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 1:57 p.m.
Wow! This is impressive. Will Alan Haber use his recruiting skills on another generation of Bill Ayers (convicted bomb maker), Diana Oughton (died in blast of nail bomb she was constructing), or Tom Hayden (visited Cambodia and North Vietnam during the war). Terrific role model and master organizer!
clownfish
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:40 p.m.
Note how many on the "right" now want overpaid government workers to arrest OWS protesters! They were opposed to TARP, now they are opposed to those that are protesting the recipients of TARP. They want police unions to step up enforcement. And they judge other people by appearance, just like Jesus.
Lolly
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:24 p.m.
Gorc, For a lot of people, because of its co-opting by the extreme right, the flag when displayed in the way you suggest has come to be a reminder of mean-spirited attitudes towards the lowest and the least in our society, and a failure to acknowledge the social compact that has been the cornerstone of our country in the past. To paraphrase Elizabeth Warren, those who "have more" (your words) didn't get it by themselves, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps in isolation. They used the roads and bridges that we all pay for to deliver their goods, they employed a workforce that we (happily) paid to educate, and they enjoy the police and fire protection that we provide. The middle class is no better off than they were 30 years ago, and yet CEOs of large corporations are making 400 times as much. Does that not seem wrong to you? Having stopped in at the OWS protest as one of many well-paid, employed sympathizers, (and one who proudly displays a flag at home) I can testify that the people in OWS are not selfishly asking for something for themselves. They are asking for a system that works better for all of us.
Arborcomment
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 11:08 p.m.
Ray, you certainly have a unique perspective. Where do we start? As funds used to purchase an investment has been taxed once, then taxed again as earned income that equals twice the taxes. This, plus the risk associated with investing (you could gain or lose your investment - see solyndra) would force a logical person NOT to invest. Without investment there would be no capital (no new companies, jobs, infrastructure etc.). Do you have as issue with investments in general? Seeing as most of America is investing one way or another (401Ks, municipal bonds) that are being taxed at that rate or less (municipal bonds are generally tax free), is there an issue with workers using any extra earned income to purchase investments? Finally, regarding risk: yes a worker does have the risk of losing their job. The worker would be forced to find another. The investor loses the money and it is gone.
RayA2
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 7:40 p.m.
Wow, wrap yourself in the flag while calling selfish people camping out on the concrete in the cold to stand up against class warfare. Arborcomment, So what if the money, maybe from a parental handout or the trust fund, was already taxed? What's that got to do with the investment returns on that money? And so what if there is risk associated with that investment? Do you think for a second that a person's investment of his time working for someone else is risk free? And do you think for a second that investors take any risk whatsoever for the philanthropic benefit of creating jobs? They do it to get wealthier. Period. The income they earn off of someone else's labor should be taxed at at least as high a rate as earned income. If you don't see the fairness in that then consider that the more investments you have, the more government services you need to maintain that investment. Services that working people don't need at all like the SEC. Other services that investors use at a greatly disproportionate level like the military, the court system, the roads, the ports, the airports, and on and on.
Arborcomment
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:19 p.m.
Ron, the common arguements for the difference in tax rates on dividends and income are 1) that the money used to invest to "get" a dividend has already been taxed. 2) and more important, a dividend is the result of income from an investment. As we well know (seen your 401k statement since 2008?) any investment carries risk. The difference in the tax rate between dividends and regular income reflects that risk and encourages money to move from storage to capital investments.
Lolly
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 6:02 p.m.
Terry, my point was that the corporation makes a profit because of the infrastructure that the rest of us provide. They may or not be paying a little bit in taxes (General Electric didn't, last year), but they could not do it by themselves. Right now the wealth that corporations produce, using our resources and infrastructure and making a profit on it, is being distributed differently from the way it was for most of the life of our country, with more going in the last 30-40 years to the top few in the company and the same or less going to the rest of the workers or in taxes that go back into infrastructure to keep our country running. And much more is going to buy votes in Washington. Since you are interested in fairness, I'm wondering what you think a fair wage would be for a CEO.
Lolly
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 5:49 p.m.
Gorc, you are correct and I apologize for giving you credit for Terry's remark.
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 4:52 p.m.
Sorry Ron, it just all sounds like jealousy to me. I couldn't care any less about what a CEO or businessman, or heir to wealth makes or does with their money. I only care about what I earn and if I think it is a fair pay for a fair days work. I wasn't saying it would be fair to tax everybody the same monetary amount. I was using that as an opposing view. Why shouldn't the wealthy be protesting because they have to pay so much more for the exact same services provided at a far lower dollar value to the lower classes? As it is the people with money already pay more sales taxes because they buy more products and more expensive products. When is it going to be fair enough for you Ron? Would it be fair when a surgeon brings home the same as a bus boy?
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.
Terry, what you suggest is grossly unfair and your argument falls to pieces. I also pay far more for those services - to use your logic - than people who make $30K or $80K. But you don't see me demanding that I should only pay 15% tax, and that anything else is "class warefare!". Some people who pay only 15% dividend tax may only make $30K on dividends a year. Or maybe they make $100K. Or maybe it is $250 million. Either way, it is absurd that their tax rate is only 15%. Why should someone earning $150K a year consulting pay 33% federal tax while someone who earns $150K a year from dividends pay 15% federal tax? I have a friend who gets all of his income as dividends from his Dad's company. My friend does not work. His cars are owned by the company, etc. They are all written off as tax deductions for "work". Again, he does not work. He does not even live in the same city as the company.
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 3 p.m.
Ron, These top earners pay far more for the same services as the lesser paid people in this country. We should be thanking them for paying such a huge chunk of our taxes. Could you imagine what our taxes would be if we each had to pay the same amount? The government is the only service I can think of that can charge people different rates for services based soley on their income level.
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:43 p.m.
"The top earners who use these roads, bridges, and educated employees all paid the thier taxes the same as almost everybody else." --- Actually, Terry, those "top earers" often pay only a 15% federal tax rate on their dividend income. Meanwhile, those of us who earn less pay a 30+% rate. Plus, they are able to hide income in trust funds and other shelters that the little people cannot take advantage of. They are not paying their fair share.
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
Lolly - tell me where in any of my posts for this article where I said "have more" or I played the haves against the have nots. My post must have resonated with you because you mentioned me and wrote a comment with so much conjecture.
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:41 p.m.
Lolly, The top earners who use these roads, bridges, and educated employees all paid the thier taxes the same as almost everybody else. The American dream is still alive and well. There is no reason why anybody has to stay in the lowest class. There are plenty of jobs out there and if it is not paying the money you would like, get a second job! It's called hard work and these protest scream to me that they do not want to do the work involved to EARN the life they want. To say our flag represents any type of social discrimination or oppression is a slap in the face of myself and anyone who serves and loves this country. The flag does and will always be a symbol of freedom and opportunity!
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 11:54 a.m.
Is this last sentence a typo? "The movement has exploded across the country and worldwide." The word Exploded would like to lead people to believe there is some force behind it, or were you likening it to a Meijer bought fireworks explosion that might get the attention of a passerby. We are talking about a "movement" that claims to be the 99%, but only draws crowds in the low hundreds from densely populated areas. More people attend Jr High basketball games than these little get togethers in the parks in Ann Arbor.
clownfish
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:35 p.m.
WaPO- "Rallies rippled across the globe on Saturday as more than 900 cities in Europe, Africa, Asia, and North America took part in the worldwide demonstration, including Washington, Toronto, Denver, and Chicago," a "low hundreds" crowd- <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8829676/Occupy-Wall-Street-protests-spread-worldwide.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8829676/Occupy-Wall-Street-protests-spread-worldwide.html</a> The Original Tea Party had a couple of dozen members. They broke into private property and destroyed cargo belonging to Other People. Now we have a modern group named after them, which often draws crowds of dozens of maybe a couple of hundred, and usually makes the news cast. When GWB declared war on Iraq, MILLIONS of people protested around the world, they were ignored. Now we have a TP that is opposed to Big Government spending. I guess when they have flags the spending they want is OK, IF our kids money is spent outside of the USA. Bridges, schools, hospitals bought at "cost plus" in Iraq, wave a flag...schools, roads, bridges and hospitals built in the USA..egads! that is socialism! cannot have it!
godsbreath64
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 8:18 a.m.
As we all know, it is such a treat for soul and society to meet minds with Alan and Odile. See you there.
Peter
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 3:25 a.m.
Gorc I'm curious as to why you think flags are necessary. Is the movement invalid without jingoistic patriotism?
Gorc
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 2:16 p.m.
Clownfish - I would be happy to go to one, but honestly I would fear for my safety. As upset as the protesters are, I beleive their are elements in the group that can not control their behavior.
clownfish
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:26 p.m.
A warped sense of entitlement is demanding the US govt bail out your bank, then taking that money and giving it out as bonuses to the top management that brought down the bank. The OWS folks want more people to have good paying jobs, want the banks to loan out the tax payers money and want the top 1% (that hold +- 40% of the wealth) to stop being so darn greedy. Yep, they are selfish! GORC, maybe if you went to talk to the protesters instead of getting your info off the telly you might be able to make informed comments.
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 9:21 a.m.
I don't question their patriotism. I'm pointing out their warped sense of entitlement and the flag represents something bigger than their individual wants.
joe.blow
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:18 a.m.
Yes, OWS, a great group who is not afraid of violence. Yup, that's the American way. When people stop paying attention to you, get violent.
Cosmic Ray
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:13 p.m.
History will remeber this as our "Tiananbum Square"
K Thompson
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:55 a.m.
Or read Grapes of Wrath, about the outside agitators who showed up at the gov't camp dance to dedtroy something tgst wss working...
David Briegel
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 2:54 a.m.
Yeah, just ask one of our "hero's" who returns from our ignoble wars only to find the next "Kent State". State "terrorism". The American Way!
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:10 a.m.
Any time I watch news coverage of any occupy protest, I don't recall ever seeing an American flag. I'm not trying to be sarcastic...just illustrating that the protesters are in it for themselves.
snapshot
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 10:28 p.m.
Hey Gorc, unless you're a veteran, in my opinion you have no right to question anybody's patritism. End of discussion.
Ted
Sat, Oct 29, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.
Some of us have wept over the last decades while the American flag was dragged through the sewers of agression and oppression, until for many Americans and most of the world, it has become a symbol of the opposite of what America once claimed to stand for. When it can be cleansed from the defilements that jingoists and exceptionalists, suborned politicians and brutal imperialists and greedy financiers have smeared it with, we hope we can again see it flying proudly as a symbol of justice and equality, human rights and brotherhood. Meanwhile, we, at least, may honor it in it's original meaning, but will not exploit it.
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
Ron - the park in New York where the occupation protest is not a public park. The protestors are technically trespassing and the protestors are violating trespassing laws. The entity that owns the park does not want them there. In order to keep things civil, they are just trying to work with Mayor Bloomberg and the city. The protestors have a right to protest, but not a right to trespass on private property.
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 3:08 p.m.
Ah yes, the laws that arbitrarily restrict constitutional rights. That's the rub, Terry. The British occupiers had laws that prevented the founding of this country. If those restrictve laws had been obeyed, we would not have a US Constitution. A lot of towns and states passed laws that forbid gun ownership. The courts have ruled that they can't do that. Laws were passed limiting corporate political donations. The courts have said those donations are free speech and we can't limit their donations. So we can't restrict corporate political donations but we can restrict peaceful protesters waving signs in a park because the park has rules about closing time? So to say that people cannot assemble in a park for a peaceful protest because it violates the rules, I don't think that's right. I believe their right to peacefully protest outweighs the park closing time, or other pedantic rules.
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 2:25 p.m.
Freely assemble! Everybody is allowed to freely assemble. You are not, however allowed to break state laws in doing so. Get a permit and follow the rules. It is a simple concept, but as shown time and time again these people do not adhear to the rules or laws. It all comes back to their feeling of entitlement.
Ron Granger
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:38 p.m.
Anyone can wrap themselves in the flag to appear patriotic. I wonder, if they wrapped themselves in flags would they then be allowed to freely assemble?
Terry
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 11:44 a.m.
In it for themselves, of course they are! I mean their way of "protesting" speaks volumes about what they want. Watch their actions, they are living on land that is paid for by tax dollars, they are eating food and using tents that in most cases are donated. They are entitlement minded. They do not want what is best for the country, instead they want more for themselves at the expense of anybody who has more. Personally I am happy to not see flags waving, I would hate for them to act as spokespeople for this great country.
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:55 a.m.
Thank you....A2.com
K Thompson
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:53 a.m.
Do stockbrokers wear or carry flags? Why the obsession with flags? Would you feel the same (and see the problem) if it were the swastica flag In tge 30's? Why dies everything have to be marinated on alleged patriotism snd not common decency for the living standards of others?
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 9:37 a.m.
Stupid Hick - thank you for links, but I'm not questioning their patotism. The flag represents something bigger than their individual wants. Just watch coverage from either a liberal or conservative news outlet and see if you notice no flags or very few.
Stupid Hick
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 3:51 a.m.
OK, I found these three photos in 30 seconds. So now will you hail them as patriots, or must they wear tri-corner hats too? <a href="http://javiersoriano.com/blog/2011/10/15/thousands-defended-zuccotti-park-occupy-wall-street-demonstrators-can-stay-photos/1009occupy-wall-street-liberty-plaza/" rel='nofollow'>http://javiersoriano.com/blog/2011/10/15/thousands-defended-zuccotti-park-occupy-wall-street-demonstrators-can-stay-photos/1009occupy-wall-street-liberty-plaza/</a> <a href="http://www.france24.com/en/20111019-occupy-wall-st-protesters-fight-downtrodden" rel='nofollow'>http://www.france24.com/en/20111019-occupy-wall-st-protesters-fight-downtrodden</a> <a href="http://wallout.com/American_Flag_OccupyWallStreet" rel='nofollow'>http://wallout.com/American_Flag_OccupyWallStreet</a>
Gorc
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 2:45 a.m.
Charlie B's Ghost....thanks for the link. At least now I can say I've seen an American flag at OWS protest.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 2:24 a.m.
Gorc, here's what the occupy folks do with American Flags: <a href="http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/u-s-flag-used-as-dog-chew-toy-by-ows-protesters-video" rel='nofollow'>http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/u-s-flag-used-as-dog-chew-toy-by-ows-protesters-video</a>
demistify
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.
As Albert Einstein pointed out, to repeat one's mistakes and expect a different outcome is insanity.
David Briegel
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 2:52 a.m.
Kinda like more tax cuts for the "job creators" who don't?
RayA2
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
We can only hope that the day when people fought injustice, be it racism, or the war, in mass will return again soon. The economic injustice of this new gilded age is oppressive.
lynel
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 12:06 a.m.
Old hippies never die....
julieswhimsies
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 8:17 p.m.
The term hippy was coined by the media in the 60's...pot...free love...etc. Then there were the anti-Vietnam war activists. Like it or not they did influence public opinion, and were ...IN PART...responsible for the end of that God forsaken war. The 99%ers are composed of a wide array of people. Look a the videos and photos of these demonstrations.
K Thompson
Fri, Oct 28, 2011 : 10:49 a.m.
Perhaps you thought OWS would be led by men in suits? It's called Counter Culture for a reason.