Q&A: Eli Cooper discusses Ann Arbor's next roundabouts, bike lanes & the North Main corridor
Editor's note: This is Part 2 of a two-part Q&A with Eli Cooper, the city of Ann Arbor's transportation program manager. Read Part 1 here.
Whether it's adding more bicycle lanes to city streets, filling gaps in the city's sidewalk system or improving pedestrian crossings, you won't find Eli Cooper far behind.
In addition to his duties steering Ann Arbor's train station project, looking out for the city's interests in regional transit talks, and serving on the board of the Ann Arbor Transportation Authority, Cooper plays a role in the planning and implementation of just about all things transportation.
Cooper, the city's transportation program manager, sat down to speak with AnnArbor.com recently about improvements being discussed for the North Main Street corridor, where the next roundabouts might be in Ann Arbor, and other non-motorized transportation issues.
Eli Cooper, the city of Ann Arbor's transportation program manager, stands outside his office on a recent morning.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
Cooper: The vision is to create a physical environment and a culture that embraces non-motorized transportation, so I think the metrics are malleable. You always want to do better than you're doing, and it's always good to have a target, but I think it's important that it's really the ethos of the community that people expect to see people walking and bicycling, and that more and more people choose to do so because the environment is attractive for those modes of transportation.
AnnArbor.com: You've studied mobility issues extensively throughout your career. When you look around the country, what are the places Ann Arbor should look to as guiding models?
Cooper: I like to think about places like Portland where you have a compact urban environment with a combination of all forms of mobility. That's a good example. I know the ones we typically target in terms of our metrics would be Madison and Boulder, other smaller-sized communities. It's interesting now to look at the larger cities — Chicago, New York, Denver, D.C. — where they have robust transit structures, where they have universal pedestrian accessibility and they've overlaid bicycling infrastructure. There really has been a movement in transportation to embrace active transportation, green transportation, sustainable transportation, and we have to look more carefully at the attributes of all-size communities to determine what might be the best fit for us.
Cooper recently presented this option for improved pedestrian safety and accessibility to the city's North Main task force. It shows a conceptual pedestrian bridge starting from Wildt Street and extending east over North Main Street and the railroad tracks and landing down at the Border-to-Border Trail next to Argo Pond. It's one of multiple options being considered by the city to increase connectivity between the east and west sides of Main Street and the railroad tracks near the Huron River.
City of Ann Arbor
Cooper: The cornerstone to all of the work is the embracing and the council adoption of the city's Non-Motorized Transportation Plan. We can look back to the '80s and the city had a bicycling plan. But in 2007, the adoption of the non-motorized plan was the first comprehensive look at the pedestrian environment, as well as the bicycling environment. And by adopting that at that moment in time, with the council having just prior to that created a funding stream for this, those two pieces together have really served to propel our non-motorized infrastructure forward.
The plan itself has created an opportunity for all of the city's transportation investments to appropriately include bicycle and pedestrian elements. I use Platt Road south of Packard as an example where we took a roadway that had some safety challenges as a four-lane facility, applied a three-lane cross-section, added bike lanes, pedestrian crossing. If you go out there now, you see people bicycling and walking. You didn't see that six years ago. What you saw was a four-lane road with people swerving to avoid cars making left turns.
AnnArbor.com: How far out is a bike-sharing program for Ann Arbor?
Cooper: It might be within 2013. I know that working with the Clean Energy Coalition, they've secured some capital dollars from the federal government to initiate a project. We're working through the details with a group of stakeholder partners, including the University of Michigan, the AATA, DDA staff, and there's still a gap to close in terms of the operating sustainability for the program. But I believe we have within our grasp the opportunity to see a project move forward yet this year.
AnnArbor.com: We've had some time to evaluate a handful of roundabouts in Ann Arbor and the surrounding area. Are they working out?
The city is considering options for a shared-use path connecting West Huron River Drive to the Border-to-Border Trail near Bandemer Park. No. 1 is a path under the railroad bridge, No. 2 is a path under the railroad, and No. 3 is a path under M-14.
City of Ann Arbor
I personally nominated the interchange area of Geddes and U.S. 23. It was an abysmal mess with traffic backing up. If you look at that interchange area now, compared to the way it functioned before the roundabouts were installed, it's a difference of night and day. And again, the issue there is primarily traffic flow. The piece that the citizens don't see — and this holds true for the 4-to-3 lane conversions as well as the roundabouts — is the reduction in severe crashes, so we're actually experiencing a safer transportation system as a result of roundabouts. I don't want to say they're the solution to every issue, because I remain concerned that under certain considerations and configurations, a roundabout does present challenges to pedestrian and bicycle activity.
AnnArbor.com: Where might we see roundabouts next?
Cooper: We've looked at the Fuller Road/East Medical Center Drive intersection, and we'll continue to evaluate how to properly accommodate the high pedestrian volumes with a potential roundabout. So it's still in the design world, but I think that's an area where it may be that we can design a roundabout with enough pedestrian accommodations that works for all.
The next one that we're going to see is State and Ellsworth. That's been funded and I think construction is going to start this year.
AnnArbor.com: Any others?
Cooper: I know as part of Miller/Newport we looked at one. There were some design challenges. I know staff is continuing to look at that.
AnnArbor.com: From a 'complete streets' standpoint, the North Main corridor is far from ideal. You've got pedestrians playing Frogger to get across the street. You've got bicyclists riding with fast-moving traffic that just came off a highway and no bike lanes. What's the solution there?
A conceptual shared-use bridge south of the Ann Arbor Railroad connecting the west side of Main Street with the Border-to-Border Trail near Argo Dam. Cooper recently presented this to the city's North Main task force.
City of Ann Arbor
You've seen the flashing beacons on Plymouth Road. You've seen the effect they can have with an appropriately designed crosswalk. We'll look at North Main and say, 'Well, down at Depot/Summit, we can improve those crosswalks and provide for a better pedestrian environment. What about further north of there?' The challenge is we don't have sidewalks on both sides of the roadway, so it's virtually impossible to say we're going to create a new mid-block crossing, because it's not crossing to anything on the west side. So there is some work needed to do something further north.
AnnArbor.com: What about the bicycling issues along there?
Cooper: That's a little more vexing. We do know that sidewalks can accommodate both pedestrians and bicyclists, and there is an almost complete sidewalk on the east side. There are a couple of areas down by the railroad tracks, and about two-thirds of the way north on the corridor, where there are some impediments that we're going to be looking at this coming year. There's what appears to be a drive ramp that goes to what appeared to have been at some point an access to an industrial property. But it precludes bicyclists comfortably using the corridor because you're basically at a roadblock, and so we're going to look at redesigning that and working through those issues.
What happens, though, when you get to the north end of the sidewalk today is it just ends. And the bicycling community has a desire to access West Huron River Drive, and so this is where options come in. One option is to attempt to design a transportation element — be it a crosswalk or something else, maybe even a roundabout. But I think there's a way to try to more effectively get cyclists from the sidewalk on the east side of the corridor to West Huron River Drive.
Set all that aside, there is currently a way that if you were to extend that sidewalk northerly to an area underneath M-14, there's a bridge that holds the highway up over the river and over the railroad, and there's space underneath that bridge. And the opportunity is to extend a path from the existing sidewalk northerly and use that grade-separated facility to create a safe, vehicle-free access to West Huron River Drive. This is not anything new. It's in the city's adopted Non-Motorized Transportation Plan, but with the emphasis of the North Main task force, we get to talk about it a little bit more.
AnnArbor.com: What's the latest thinking on implementing a so-called 'road diet' where the lanes of automobile traffic are reduced along North Main?
Cooper: That's what the non-motorized plan calls for today. Unfortunately the traffic volume and pattern won't support the same type of road diet that we've implemented in 10 other places in the city. What we've asked MDOT to consider is a variation on that theme, which is to take the current four-lane cross-section, reduce it to a three-lane cross-section. However, as opposed to having one lane in each direction with a center left-turn lane, instead look at using the center lane as a reversible managed lane, so that perhaps in the morning we could have two lanes serving inbound traffic, and in the afternoon peak have two lanes in the outbound direction.
And during the other periods, just have one lane in each direction with the space leftover being used for bicycle lanes. We don't know whether that's a feasible alternative from an engineering design standpoint, but I anticipate that MDOT or the city will take a closer look at that as they get closer to the project they have to reconstruct or rehabilitate that stretch of roadway.
AnnArbor.com: How seriously is the city looking at the idea of a pedestrian bridge going over North Main from the proposed greenway park site at 721 N. Main and connecting to the Border-to-Border Trail at Argo Park? What might that entail? What might that cost?
Cooper: We are serious in looking at it. Serious to the point where staff members have gone out and walked the corridor. We've drawn sketches. We've talked with bridge fabricators as to what a facility like that might cost. There has been and will continue to be emphasis on linking the proposed Allen Creek Greenway with the Border-to-Border Trail. The longer term might have grade-separated crossings over both Main Street and under the railroad or over the railroad.
If you were to look at Wildt Street, you can literally tie into the existing roadway there at grade, elevate across North Main, wind up 30 feet up in the air, but then you need to come back down. And in order to meet ADA standards, the amount of structure needed to ramp down is twice as long as the 300 or so feet to get from Wildt across the roadway, across the railroad, so the costs balloon quite quickly, and there are other considerations. But regardless of how you do it, we'll need to meet ADA requirements, and that is not inconsequential. The cost will run into the millions of dollars.
AnnArbor.com: Do the hundreds of millions of dollars being invested in high-speed rail improvements come into consideration when we're talking about these issues?
Cooper: We have an at-grade crossing at Lake Shore Drive. If that becomes threatened by the desire to have a fast train from Detroit to Chicago, the impacts on our city are real. And the city did send testimony to the Chicago-Detroit corridor planning process describing our concern about severing our at-grade crossings by instituting a higher-speed rail design in our city.
We believe, as a city that straddles the railroad, that safe passage from one side of the rail to the other has been ignored by the private railroads historically, and that if the public intends to make investments to increase the frequency and speed of trains in our community, then investments will need to be made to allow us to have the connectedness in Ann Arbor — not just connecting one side of the track to the other, but connecting our downtown to a prized, precious, natural-resource asset: the Huron River and the Border-to-Border Trail. As the state invests its hundreds of millions of dollars, we might find a way to create win-win solutions out of what's coming forward.
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's email newsletters.
Comments
Sam S Smith
Wed, Feb 27, 2013 : 3:05 p.m.
Regarding the astronomical train expansion cost, which will only go up and up, don't forget Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, etc. and that we will have to bail them out. What's in your wallet?
DJBudSonic
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 6:47 a.m.
Why has there been no discussion or reporting of Peter Allen's pedestrian bridges plan that he presented to the North Main Task Force? Anybody else know about this or like to comment? Are these bridge sketches a takeoff of that? Ryan, any input or mention of that in your conversations? I saw the presentation and it looked like a well thought out idea for pedestrian and other non motorized traffic, at a reasonable price, especially when compared to some of the other things our money is spent on...
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 10:13 p.m.
"I personally nominated the interchange area of Geddes and U.S. 23. It was an abysmal mess with traffic backing up. If you look at that interchange area now, compared to the way it functioned before the roundabouts were installed, it's a difference of night and day." There has been at least one truck that tipped over in that roundabout at 23 and Geddes. These are way too small for the type of vehicles that use them. I've talked with many people who won't use the triple roundabouts off of 23 up by the Brighton Costco because they are so poorly designed.
Basic Bob
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 4:13 a.m.
Geddes - US23 is a huge improvement. Before the roundabouts, I used to exit 23 early and use Washtenaw - Hogback - Huron River - Huron Parkway to get to Fuller Road. Now that is an unnecessary detour.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:20 a.m.
Macabre Sunset, Fifteen years ago, trucks wouldn't allow me into a westbound stretch of I-94, even though I HAD to get over into their lane because my own was ENDING. If I did manage to get into their lane on time, they'd honk at me. Today, there are other truck drivers who just won't let me in onto westbound I-94 from another area. What did they do twenty or more years ago, use bigger side mirrors?
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:06 p.m.
The Lee Road roundabouts are fine, except the signage is not all that clear. Because of snow so much of the year and expected poor road maintenance, there's only so much they can put in the lanes themselves. If people bothered to learn how they work, these roundabouts would be fine. I can't say the same for Geddes because I've never tried those near rush hour. The Concordia one looks too small. Truckers have a responsibility to know how to control their vehicles and avoid places they can't navigate successfully. Last week, I was driving behind a truck who hit the Brighton roundabouts using the wrong lane and ended up tying up the entire width of the road going from right to left when he should have exited based on his lane choice. He had plenty of room to do it correctly, he just chose the lane that had no traffic in it and made everyone else wait while he cut back in. I have noticed that truckers are often the worst drivers on the roads these days - inattentive and inconsiderate. Go back a couple of decades, and they were often the best drivers out there.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 10:09 p.m.
"They are working out very well, and I say that from a standpoint of looking at the primary purpose, which is to facilitate traffic and safe traffic movement. The one that was somewhat controversial was at Huron Parkway and Nixon. If you can recall, that was an obscure, four-way stop with a very long street crossing. Given the design of that roundabout, it has calmed the traffic and it's closed the distance pedestrians need to walk. We've heard nothing but positives." Mr Cooper must not be aware of the rear end accidents at this roundabout, which I know of personally. Cars approaching the roundabouts are yielding to traffic IN the circle and fast moving drivers are rear ending cars that are yielding to traffic. I know several individuals who have had rear end accidents at this roundabout. Apparently, Mr Cooper is unaware or filtering out the bad news. That roundabout is far too small and drivers DO NOT YIELD to traffic in the circle. I've been in several near misses myself when driving inside the circle and other drivers cut me off by flying through and not looking in any direction.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 10:04 p.m.
"We've looked at the Fuller Road/East Medical Center Drive intersection, and we'll continue to evaluate how to properly accommodate the high pedestrian volumes with a potential roundabout. So it's still in the design world, but I think that's an area where it may be that we can design a roundabout with enough pedestrian accommodations that works for all." Unbelievable that they would even consider a roundabout in such a pedestrian heavy area. Roundabout in that location? A disaster in the making. Build a pedestrian overpass over the road and the problem is solved. The high number of huge buses that travel through that intersection, along with ambulances and autos make it a very poor choice for a tiny roundabout.
talker
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:02 a.m.
I'm glad you included that ambulances need to get through that intersection. Those single lane roundabouts prevent vehicles from pulling over to let emergency vehicles pass. I hope nobody is injured or dies because a fire engine or ambulance faces delays at round abouts. I know of at least one city in the U.S. that is removing some roundabouts.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.
"AnnArbor.com: Any others? [roundabouts] Cooper: I know as part of Miller/Newport we looked at one. There were some design challenges. I know staff is continuing to look at that." You must be joking. Miller-Newport? What is wrong with the intersection of Miller and Newport that a roundabout would help? NOTHING is wrong with that intersection.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:50 p.m.
Thank God the roundabout for Miller Newport is on hold! It will never be big enough so that buses can navigate it safely. And I don't mind roundabouts if they are large enough to accommodate the traffic for that particular area!
jcj
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:50 a.m.
Miller /Newport has been put on hold for now.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:10 a.m.
I wonder if "design challenges" mean the steep slope of Newport Road and the nearness of Calvary Methodist Church to Miller Road.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.
"The next one [roundabout] that we're going to see is State and Ellsworth. That's been funded and I think construction is going to start this year." This is the most absurd roundabout ever conceived. There are monster semis going through that intersection 24/7 that will not be able to negotiate these mini roundabouts built in this area. The State-Ellsworth intersection is just fine the way it is. Build a roundabout in that location, and it won't be long before a truck or two tips over in the roundabout. Won't that be fun?
Sam S Smith
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
Good point! There are a lot of semis in that area!
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:08 p.m.
It would be fine if the lights were timed properly. You need to wait until there's smoke rising from the Vatican before you can get through on Ellsworth moving eastbound.
a2grateful
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:16 p.m.
Road diet? The city has been on one for years. Roads are "eaten up" throughout the city.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:11 p.m.
Ann Arbor: the mystifying marriage between 21st century cutting-edge technology and Amish leadership.
LXIX
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
The marriage ended after the notorious cutting edge leadership got 15 years. It was a close shave but after the face of City Hall had been exposed, most residents just gave up the technological revolution and went back home to whittle large head statues for the incoming alien visitors.
whale11
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:17 p.m.
"Road diet" is a great idea, but why stop at slimming down roads? Why not have a "road fast?" Just close some roads periodically. Research shows that fasting from time to time is healthy. "Road fasts" would also save wear and tear on road pavements.
LXIX
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 7:22 p.m.
Very revealing and interesting article. Thanks! More crosswalk questions, though. How many pedestrians have been hit at a crosswalk since the new City ordinance was effected? How many auto accidents have occurred at city crosswalks? How many bike accidents have occurred at city crosswalks? Any News or City followup concerning the status of the Washtenaw crosswalk accident victim? Boulde CO (pop. 99k) is Ann Arbor's "model city" for the crosswalk ordinance. They have had at least one fatality at their crosswalks since their Boulder law was implemented. Are they still the model or is Ann Arbor planning to repeal its own law?
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:59 p.m.
Regarding the roundabout at Huron Pkwy & Nixon, "We've heard nothing but positives." Then you must not be listening very carefully. There have been a lot of complaints about that one...especially that it's too small. I have no problem with roundabouts in general...in fact I think Nixon/Green/Dhu Varren could greatly benefit from one, but I don't think the main entrance to the Medical Center is a good location for one. I agree that in order for them to work, people have to know how to drive in them, and with all of the pedestrians, and out-of-town and elderly visitors coming to the Medical Center who are already stressed, I think it would be a disaster.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:04 a.m.
I know someone who would like something done at that intersection. Long red light on Medical Center Drive when there's no traffic coming from either direction on Fuller Road.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.
Totally agree.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:51 p.m.
The one outside Concordia isn't a roundabout, it's a roundabit, which is a roundabout on a diet. It was one of Cooper's more forward-thinking ideas. Unfortunately, one that shows a shocking ignorance of how cars work.
Basic Bob
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 4:03 a.m.
It's not banked and 2-1/2 miles across. It makes it hard to keep up with the pace car.
Radlib2
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 3:36 a.m.
If cutting down a 6-10 minute wait down to 60 seconds is ignorance, I 'd like to know what genius is.
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 6:01 p.m.
Haha, I love it!
aanative
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:49 p.m.
I have to say that as a (warm weather) motorcyclist these small roundabouts make me very nervous. I wear protective high-visibility clothing and still have had cage drivers hit me and cut me off, claiming they disn't see me. I always try to drive defensively but when you add in drivers talking on the phone while treating the roundabouts as a mere curve in the road, I don't like my chances.
Jt
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:42 p.m.
I'm going to give the state/elsworth death trap a year before they are forced to remove it at immense cost to the municipality after the traffic during rush hour that already almost reaches Michigan ave spills out and causes dangerous circumstances. That and how nobody will ever be able to cross elsworth to Costco and Costco will consider massive pressure. And for the record I call this a death trap considering I have either had to wait 15 minutes or nearly died each time I navigated the ones outside Concordia university and that's a slow road not a congested one like state and elsworth.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:56 p.m.
Absolutely correct.
aanative
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:41 p.m.
Have to agree about the relative absence of bicyclists on S. Main and on Stadium. But the lanes are there now, just in case anybody does decide to put 'em to use.
justcurious
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
...and we wonder why Ann Arbor's streets are so poorly maintained. It all becomes clear now. Ann Arbor does not want cars on it's streets and does not want to have to provide parking for the ones who do come into town.
a2grateful
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:17 p.m.
It appears that some commenters believe that non-support of the Hieftje/Cooper plan means non-support of cycling. Au contraire mes amis. As a yearlong cyclist, I have my own cycling/traffic plan according to two scenarios. It exists today on existing infrastructure. My plan: 1) Avoid high-traffic streets with speeding cars, busses, garbage trucks, etc. Physics rule: Bikes have grave (literal and figurative) speed and mass disadvantages in this context, where bike lanes are typically found. 2) Travel mainly on neighborhood streets, often connecting with existing nonmotorized paths. Speed limit is 25 on interior neighborhood streets. Traffic is minimal to none. There are minimal-to-no traffic lights. Traffic lights are often problematic for cyclists, as they are actuated by heavy vehicles and not bikes. Bicycling is often difficult in Ann Arbor's winter, since city snowplowing is minimal. Instead, roads are chemically treated for snow and ice removal. Traveling on bike lanes (scenario 1, above) means breathing salt/brine/chemical dust, along with vehicle exhaust, spray, etc. No thanks. The city would be much wiser to have single dedicated bike path for N, S, E and W directions. For example, do we really need parallel bike paths along Liberty, Jackson Ave, Dexter Ave, and Miller Ave? Or, would one dedicated, safe route away from high density, fast moving vehicles be superior? The problem with Ann Arbor bike paths is they look great in the city's publicity package. They are designed by non-cyclists for use by practically no one. Few people use the city bike lanes. If the city became serious about bike traffic, it would publish traffic counts for bicycles, on existing and forecasted bases. Instead we waste resources on bike paths that few will ever use, simply because most Ann Arbor bike paths are dangerous. They feature ineffective design, physics dangers of co-traveling vehicles, and hostility from armor-suited motorists toward vulnerable cyclists.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:16 p.m.
How novel hers is a sensible approach that doesn't involve city government spending lots of other peoples's money on pet ideological projects that are mainly about political posturing. I spent most of my childhood growing up in Phoenix Arizona and I was a big bicycling enthusiast then. There were plenty of great places to ride out there despite the fact that the city did not have one official bike path or bike lane.
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:49 p.m.
You make some very good points.
Plubius
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:06 p.m.
"road diet" - stupidest concept ever. It just proves the old adage - engineers who finish in the bottom quintile become traffic engineers.
grye
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5 p.m.
I hope Mr. Cooper is considering a roundabout for the intersection at Nixon/Green/Dhu Varren. This is the worst constructed intersection in the State.
Mary Sell
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:48 p.m.
@Craig Lounsbury - According to the 2010 U.S. census data, only 58.7% of Ann Arbor commuters identified as driving alone as their primary commuting method. Perhaps there are more walkers/bikers/alternative commuters out there than you think. Plus, the census allows for 1 mode to be selected, so many people that may identify as walkers or transit riders, may bike into work seasonally as well. Here is the link to the census data, if of interest: http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk
talker
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:53 p.m.
Shouldn't the U. of M. pay for the bike paths, walkways, etc. of U. of M. students? For students not living in University housing, there are certain areas of town from where they bike, walk, or ride buses. Also, the only motor vehicle options on that questionnaire was for solo vehicle occupants. There was no choice of travel by motor vehicle that can be solo or with one or more other person. Can we trust a questionnaire that doesn't even have all the categories needed to reach conclusions?
Mary Sell
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:41 p.m.
Ummm, LXIX is using statistics as well, so equally misleading, no? To be fair and all... :) And, as a side note, the question in the census does preface "commuting mode" which would infer the professional workforce, versus the student population.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:08 p.m.
Mary statistics can be very misleading and get you to endorse very bad ideas. Thanks LXIX for show us what is going on in Ann Arbor with respect to transportation.
LXIX
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 7:40 p.m.
In 2010 there were 41,028 students living in Ann Arbor out of a total 113,934 residents. About 36% of the population. Most students do not commute to school by car alone. Out of the 64% others remaining, if 58.7% do drive alone then closer to only 5.3% of the population or about 6038 walk, bike, bus, train, wheel, or fly as their primary mode of transportation.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:44 p.m.
It's unfortunate that so much money and counter-intuitive effort are being made because of the misunderstanding of one simple statistic. *when you include those who work at home*, one in five Americans walks or bikes to work. A real transportation director would stop trying to engineer people and would focus instead on what Ann Arborites actually do.
yohan
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:35 p.m.
All of the people who like rounabouts ignore their one basic flaw. A very big flaw. The flaw is that traffic from one direction can dominate the circle and shut off any traffic from any other direction. As an example, try to go North or South on Maple when an major event at Skyline High School lets out. You can sit at that roundabout for 10 or 15 minutes as a continous stream exits the High School. I can see the same happens at the Geddes and 23 rounabouts.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:51 a.m.
You mean the continuous stream goes both north and south? I know of a detour bypassing all three roundabouts: Maple to Laurentide to Parkridge to Robinwood to southbound Wagner Road if you're headed south. That Maple-to-Wagner route takes just 3 minutes. To go north and bypass all three, with no intention of getting on M-14, get off Maple at Miller, go north on Wagner, turn right on Robinwood, right on Parkridge, left on Laurentide, and left on Maple.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:39 a.m.
Macabre Sunset, It sounds like the roundabout that the Beatles sing about in their song, "Penny Lane" is not an exceptional roundabout; you're saying that it's normal for a roundabout in Europe to be big enough for a restaurant to be located on, like the one mentioned in "Penny Lane" is.
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:58 p.m.
Tiny roundabouts and drivers zooming through without looking in any direction. That's the problem. They make little sense in most situations in A2. State and Ellsworth will be a disaster.
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:48 p.m.
It would also help if people went the correct speed limit in roundabouts, which is NOT 35 mph.
grye
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:57 p.m.
The major problem with the roundabouts is that many drivers wait until the circle is empty before entering. That is not necessary. If there is a break between automobiles, enter if it is safe. Sitting and waiting holds up the process.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:47 p.m.
Yes. If you look at how roundabouts work in Europe, you'd be surprised how much bigger they are. This allows them to handle much more traffic. In certain areas, and I suspect State/Ellsworth will be one of them because I think Cooper is inadequate for his job, traffic will get worse because they will construct a tiny roundabout.
Jon Saalberg
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:58 p.m.
To the vexed who do not understand roundabouts - it's straightforward - when you're in the roundabout, you have the right-of-way. Traffic needs to yield when there is a preponderance of cars going through the roundabout and/or take turns as flow allows. You DO NOT, DO NOT pass or stop in a roundabout. I have never seen an accident at a roundabout, whereas, I have seen plenty of accidents at traffic stop intersections. Seems like the only reason people don't like roundabouts is they're different - multiple studies have shown they are much safer than traditional intersections, so the more roundabouts that can be constructed, the better.
ArgoC
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:23 p.m.
Happily, older people are perfectly capable of learning new things!
a2cents
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 6 p.m.
Although i enjoy roundabouts, they are counter-intuitive to older generations which were taught to yield-to-traffic-on-the-right.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:58 p.m.
Thank you kejamder and Jon Saalberg! I appreciate your help and I'll check into these studies!
Jon Saalberg
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:26 p.m.
@Sam S Smith: Here is just one of many studies available: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm And this study has some pretty stunning statistics - if these don't make the case for roundabouts, I don't know what can: A 37 percent reduction in overall collisions A 75 percent reduction in injury collisions A 90 percent reduction in fatality collisions A 40 percent reduction in pedestrian collisions
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:10 p.m.
Kyle Interesting. It certainly looks like this would have been a good solution for the Geddes intersection.
Kyle Mattson
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:01 p.m.
Hey jcj- Check out this video I just found showing a bypass lane being integrated into roundabouts, I'm actually somewhat surprised this wasn't considered for the Geddes exit roundabouts: http://bit.ly/XWq8r9
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:50 p.m.
Jon To anyone who does not understand roundabouts Let me break it down further for you. If you have bumper to bumper traffic from one direction at a particular time it does not allow for the normal flow of traffic through a roundabout. If only we could include sketches I would include a stick drawing!
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:47 p.m.
Jon Have you driven the Geddes roundabout at 8am? Do you with all your expertise understand that a particular traffic flow CAN dominate a roundabout?
kejamder
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:22 p.m.
Sam- go to google.com and type in "roundabout safety research" or here's the FHWA page about it: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/
clara
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:16 p.m.
You must stop in a roundabout when there is a pedestrian in a crosswalk in front of you, this causes more backups and possible collisions.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:09 p.m.
I have no problem with roundabouts. I'd like to learn more about the studies in detail. Do you know where I can find this out?
Veracity
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:47 p.m.
High speed rail service through Ann Arbor will increase the risks for accidents and injuries at many railroad crossings. Will trains have to slow as they approach crossings and thus reduce the benefits accorded to high speed rail service? In Europe, where high speed rail service is common, trains are not routed across roadways but travel on viaducts constructed over the roadways.
GoNavy
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:36 p.m.
Europe is no panacea. They have chosen to use rail for passenger service. To compensate, almost all freight shipping is done on the roads via truck. The US, on the other hand, dedicates rail to its best use: The transportation of bulk freight. In that regard, we have one of the largest, most-utilized rail networks in the world.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 9:03 p.m.
High speed rail service through Ann Arbor and southeast Michigan with trains going 110mph or anywhere close to that is a joke. You can not do that with many stops and travel through heavily populated residential areas period. The new rail service at best will be slightly faster than the present Amtrak service. Grade-separation would significantly increase travel speeds but the cost for building such a system would be huge.
Larry Krieg
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:59 p.m.
Yes, grade-separation like Europe would be nice. But 110 MPH is the top speed allowed in this country for trains when there are grade-crossings. The gates are timed to go down when the train is farther away, giving just as must warning time-wise as when the train is going slower. No train/car crashes have happened on the section in West Michigan where trains go 110. Compare that to the DAILY crashes on I-94 and US-23!
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:45 p.m.
@a2Grateful wrote: "Some believe Ann Arbor's best roundabout is the "traffic circle" that allows bypass of the entire city: I94, US23, M14." Except that you cannot travel from westbound M-14 to eastbound I-94 or from westbound I-94 to eastbound M-14. Working on solving this problem apparently doesn't rate as important but it would get a lot of traffic off city steets including the Jackson - Maple - Stadium intersection and allow traffic to move around the city more easily.
ypsi-investor
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:20 p.m.
The M-14, I-94 interchange is actually a MDOT and Federal traffic and reconstruction problem, not Ann Arbor's; however your point in well taken and an improvement there would be highly beneficial.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:33 a.m.
I think the reason there are many accidents on that I-94 bridge is that it's a BRIDGE (so it gets icier than the rest of the freeway and it's on a CURVE (so there's a lower speed limit if you wish to maintain control of your car).
CalmDown
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:26 p.m.
Stephen, I think maybe that was a joke.
Kafkaland
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:02 p.m.
Another problem with our freeway ring is that it is too narrow on I94. We have three lanes in each direction from Detroit to US23, then it narrows down to two, and once you have passed Ann Arbor, it's three again to Jackson. I know that widening it is not trivial because of the M14 interchange - any work to remedy the situation would cut into the Westgate or the adjacent cemetary. But that interchange is a disaster anyway as pointed out above - perhaps it's time to look into real solutions to this major bottleneck?
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:36 p.m.
"the non-motorized plan calls for [implementing a so-called 'road diet' where the lanes of automobile traffic are reduced along North Main]. Unfortunately [!] the traffic volume and pattern won't support the same type of road diet that we've implemented in 10 other places in the city. What we've asked MDOT to consider is a variation on that theme, which is to take the current four-lane cross-section, reduce it to a three-lane cross-section. However, as opposed to having one lane in each direction with a center left-turn lane, instead look at using the center lane as a reversible managed lane, so that perhaps in the morning we could have two lanes serving inbound traffic, and in the afternoon peak have two lanes in the outbound direction." Translation: It's "unfortunate" it won't work but we want to do it anyway. Is there *any* major arterial entrance into or out of Ann Arbor that won't be screwed up if the current plans are implemented?
kejamder
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:13 p.m.
how would only having one lane out of ann arbor at 8am screw up north main?
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:30 p.m.
I would like to see a few traffic counters installed on the bike paths. Then we could see how much per biker it is costing those that don't bike!
Radlib2
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 3:32 a.m.
A lot less than what I pay for everyone's cars and kids. Not everyone enjoys the use of everything tax money gets spent on.
tazna2
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:23 p.m.
More Boondoggles like the $1,000,000 walking bike bath along Washtenaw that is not used
Jamie Pitts
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 7:18 a.m.
It will not seem crazy once human beings are walking and bicycling around in a zone which was about as nasty as it gets for anything other than cars. Take a walk in the right lane of Washtenaw under the 23 some time.. and I mean the right lane of vehicle traffic. Because this is what you had to do before this path when trying to cross this hell-zone. If it is not a freeway, every place a car goes people on foot or bike should be able to go too.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:52 p.m.
What was the cost of this bike path?
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:50 p.m.
I guess that explains why no one has died there yet. It's the craziest, dumbest stunt yet, and Cooper has pulled some doozies.
Larry Krieg
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:01 p.m.
It's not actually open yet.
GoNavy
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:15 p.m.
Please, take bicyclists off the sidewalks. They simply have no business being there with pedestrians. Give them dedicated lanes in the streets, and enforce traffic laws as they pertain to them (that is, no running stops/reds, etc.).
zanzerbar
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 10:47 a.m.
Eliminate the meters along State , Liberty, Williams, install Bike lanes and cyclists would not be on sidewalk.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:51 p.m.
Bicyclists riding on the sidewalks are huge safety hazards. I don't see city authorities doing anything to curb this danger. I like walking sidewalks but do not like being subject to being hit by bicyclists.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:11 p.m.
A round about for Miller and Newport would not have room to allow this unless there's "imminent domain." Best to have a traffic light there if something is needed. Wow a solution without an expensive study and that is common sense! Regarding any study conducted or used by the city, people want to see the data, the study design, the method used for the study, presence of type 1 or 2 errors, the sample size studied, etc. This would be only fair and transparent. Your word on the studies' results could be flawed but we have no way of knowing it. And we shouldn't have to go downtown to see it, it should be reported in the news.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:27 a.m.
The Miller-Newport intersection makes me wonder how practical roundabouts are for such intersections, where one or both roads slope steeply up or down before the intersection. None of the new roundabouts here have such a characteristic. The freeway ramps at US-23 aren't as steep as Newport.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:51 p.m.
Thank you kejamder--that's what I meant! Eminent domain!
kejamder
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:14 p.m.
*eminent domain
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:37 p.m.
Also, who's paying for the study.
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:36 p.m.
So true jcj! The studies' should also disclose who's doing it and why.
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:27 p.m.
Sam Not to mention,it is common knowledge that if ANYONE wants to back up what THEY are saying, they will commission their own "study". How many here would believe ANY study commissioned by the NRA? I feel the same way about the relatively small bike crowd!
a2grateful
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
Some believe Ann Arbor's best roundabout is the "traffic circle" that allows bypass of the entire city: I94, US23, M14.
Ann English
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:21 a.m.
That "traffic circle" does run counterclockwise like any roundabout: eastbound I-94, northbound, US-23, westbound M-14. To go all the way around clockwise, a driver has to get on eastbound I-94, get off at the eastbound M-14 exit, to southbound US-23, finally to westbound I-94. No tripledeckers to deal with going clockwise.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:52 p.m.
Have to give the state some credit for stupidity there, though. You can't go from 14 to 94 to complete the circle and the lane design for remaining on 23 when you're headed southbound on to 14/23 creates a bottleneck.
a2roots
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:06 p.m.
Mr Cooper must be looking through some different glasses. I rarely see bicycles on the revamped stretch of Packard. This holds true for the section of South Main from Briarwood to Busch's and the entire stretch of Stadium from Seventh to Maple. Argue all you want and try to justify it. Bicycle ridership cannot justify some of the ludicrous lane changing that has taken place. The non-mortorized plan was passed with little community knowledge. Oh yes, the bike lobby knew all about it, but for the most part it was kept very quiet so that the general population would not come forth to oppose it. I am afraid the next battle will be the stretch of Stadium that fronts Ann Arbor Golf and Outing. They are going to want to put sidewalks in and cause major damage to a golf course that has been there since 1890. The road is already wide enough to support bike lanes but it is totally asinine to put a sidewalk on the south side of Stadium. There is relatively no foot traffic along this stretch. Outside of football and basketball days you can probably count the pedestrians on one hand. The sidewalk on the Crisler side is more than adequate.
a2roots
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:04 p.m.
Aw yes build it and they will come. Who is the sidewalk needed for? Park your car at the Sprint store and count. Even with Pioneer there is minimal foot traffic. Won't work and a waste of money. Let's see, how many people walk to one or the other golf courses which are the only properties on the south side of Stadium? Can you say zero. Absolutely no logical, feasible or justifiable reason for a sidewalk on the south side. Oh, unless you don't like signage.
a2cents
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:45 p.m.
Sidewalks would be a payback for the aagos' hideous, obtrusive, illegal game-parking signs. If push comes to shove I'll bet the uom won't give an inch, so aagos, you lose.
Joe Hood
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:09 p.m.
Don't put a sidewalk in because there is no foot traffic? You're being silly here. Sidewalk is truly needed around those golf courses, they should take a lane of traffic if the golf courses are so affected.
Gardener1
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:57 p.m.
The Nixon, Green and Dhu Varren intersection is ideal for a roundabout. The east west roads (Dhu Varren and Green intersect Nixon in a way that the 4 way stop system is not easy to use. A roundabout would move traffic more efficiently, especially at rush hour times.
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:44 p.m.
Yes, this is a horrible intersection that could benefit greatly from a roundabout. Forget the Med Center, and put one here!
Redness
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:05 p.m.
I totally agree. I thought this was in the planning at one point
Arboriginal
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:59 p.m.
Yes.
Steve Hendel
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:30 p.m.
Looking at the roundabout at Green/Huron Parkway on an average day, it is clear that the public needs an education as to how these intersections are supposed to work; mainly, people need to realize that "YIELD" means yield to traffic IN the roundabout, not traffic APPROACHING it. Another problem at Green/Huron Parkway involves the pedestrian crossings straddling the entrances to and exits from the roundabout; the mixture of heavy pedestrian traffic with heavy auto traffic results in auto backups IN the roundabout, as cars yield to pedestrians. Mr Cooper, you are right-such situations present a challenge. My own experience, from visits to other countries where roundabouts are the rule rather than the exception, is that traffic signals (often pedestrian activated) are installed. This seems to alleviate if not solve the problem. Are you aware of this?
kejamder
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:17 p.m.
Veracity - Cyclists have the legal right to ride side-by-side, no?
Veracity
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:41 p.m.
Nicholas Urfe - That goes for your favored cyclists as well who often ride through stop signs without even stopping and weave among cars stopped at red lights and stop signs. And then there are the pairs of cyclists riding side-by-side on the roadway instead of in single file!
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2 p.m.
Looking at stop signs and crosswalks at intersections, it's clear the public needs an education on how they work, too. Every day I see people rolling through stop signs, or stopping on the crosswalk and blocking it.
ordmad
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:14 p.m.
I'm old and afraid. Please, no roundabouts, no bike lanes (I don't ride one and they confuse me) and no spending on anything other than big, wide roads so I can cruise through downtown (but not stop because the hooligans are everywhere).
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:21 p.m.
ordmad OK. I'm 62.I have no particular problem negotiating roundabouts.Although the one in Brighton at Lee rd can be confusing for a first time user with all the different exits from the roundabout. There are plenty of people younger folks that can use a roundabout, but do not seem to understand that speed limits are for a reason,or that entering a left turn lane is best done BEFORE you get to where you are going to turn. ( that way the rear of your car has a chance to clear the through lane, or those that do not know where the turn signal is on their car, or tying up traffic in a parking lot waiting for a spot 10 feet closer because they are afraid to walk the extra 10 feet. My point is there are lots of drivers that think they have it down when in fact we all have short comings in one area or another.
ordmad
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:38 p.m.
50. And that was satire. When we talk about long term visions like this we need to be thinking about future generations not coddling to folks who are desperately clinging to the AA of yesterday.
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:22 p.m.
ordmad Would you care to reveal your age?
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:10 p.m.
This is in regard to the train station, part I, which I realize may be considered "old news" now but I was unable to post on it. Questions I'd like answered: How many people will actually travel to Chicago or Detroit and would use the train to do so? Hundreds? Thousands? On a daily basis? What would the fare be? As much or more than airfare? Or will the fare be paid by tax payers in some way? Are the relatively few that will be using this service justify the cost of it? Who came up with this idea and are they being blackmailed, received campaign funds or something to keep promoting this expensive project? Why is this not brought up for citizens to vote on? Who will be paying for it? Answer: our children and higher taxes. I'm all for improving things but how is this all going to be paid? Eventually, everyone has to pay. Improving our city should not be equated with "proving" that we are like another city such as Portland. Anyone who is so enamored by Portland should move there. Any transit or other project should be brought to vote by the citizen tax payers. Keep raising the taxes to pay for overly expensive transit projects and there will be few people actually living here except for the rich.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:46 p.m.
Questioning the proposed new Amtrak train station is not old news in the least. Sam you have raised many interesting problems with the project. I hope you have contacted and continue to contact the Mayor and your two Council Members about the issue
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:42 p.m.
Here is something else to think about: We do have the technology to run cars cheaply, environmentally friendly. But this would collapse many businesses and countries' economies. If we have all this tech for our phones, etc., why is it that nothing, other than expensive and coal and nuclear usage for electricity cars, is being invented or discovered? Are we being duped again?
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:33 p.m.
Yes, I am all for improving things. The people who promote these expensive projects stating that funding will come from the state and the feds are ignoring their budget deficits which we are and will be paying for in more ways than one such as with budget cuts on priorities such as education. And then it will be social security big time and then it will be health care and then it will be...
Sam S Smith
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.
It is almost like Ann Arbor wants to be only for the rich. People will move to more affordable areas and Ann Arbor is then counting on people using the transit to come here to work.
Karen
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1 p.m.
"I personally nominated the interchange area of Geddes and U.S. 23. It was an abysmal mess with traffic backing up." Mr Cooper -o now I know who is responsible for turning a problem into a disaster. Try exiting now in the morning rush hour - the through traffic never gives way because of your roundabout, and cars are backed up onto US-23 in both directions. And it it worse than before you arrived with your social engineering. Care to put in some traffic lights to give the exiting people a break? As someone with arthritis and who lives 10 miles out of Ann Arbor - I won't be bicycling to work any time soon. And I lived for years in a city where to get to work I had to take a bus to a subway to another bus...that's why I like driving - it's so much more personalized and relaxing. And elder-friendly. Which you clearly are not. Perhaps if you and your staff members got out and spoke to people who work here, instead of walking up and down in your corridors and speaking to yourselves and the City Council social engineers, you might find out why your plans fall flat when the outside world gets to hear about them.
DJBudSonic
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 6:37 a.m.
I call BS on 10 miles in 30 minutes as a commuter bicycle rates... Get real man, nobody commutes at 20 mph sustained speeds.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:29 p.m.
Karen, I agree with you that left-wing social engineers do not spend much time with average folks who might question their "progressive" plans. Instead they spend most of their time with other elites and supporters who share their ideologies and political agendas.
Stupid Hick
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 7:15 p.m.
I use the Geddes and 23 exchange every day and traffic is MUCH better since they put in the traffic circles, not worse!
pegret
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:42 p.m.
Halflight, that is why I think a roundabout at the Medical Center would be a huge mistake. The roundabouts we have in Ann Arbor are NOT pedestrian-friendly, and with all of the out-of-towners and elderly drivers coming to the Medical Center, it could be a disaster.
halflight
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:05 p.m.
I live near the roundabouts on US-23. While there are backups during absolute peak times, they aren't any worse than before, and the new arrangement definitely improves traffic flow during most other times. The biggest problem with the roundabouts is the people who don't know how to use them-- who insist on interpreting the Yield signs as boulevard stops and who refuse to enter the traffic circle unless there is no visible traffic on the crossroad. If there is room between cars, then MOVE and merge. As someone who uses those multiple intersections on a daily basis, I am glad of the improvement; although, like any other traffic improvement, the changes, along with the construction of the Dixboro Rd. bridge over the river, have greatly increased the traffic burden, with most cars heading south to the Community College and the St. Joe's hospital complex.
Joe Hood
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:06 p.m.
Veracity: My son and I have ridden our bikes to school/work all winter long. Proper clothing is required for anything to be fun.
Veracity
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:33 p.m.
Nicholas Urfe - If you can sustain a bicycle speed of 20 mph for thirty minutes than you are well-conditioned and probably would enjoy competitive cycling. I doubt that the average cyclist could perform as well (even to sustain 13 mph). Also, your "10 miles is 30 minute bike ride" must not negotiate obstacles like street crossings, traffic lights, pedestrians and a winding pathway which would slow down most cyclists. Maybe you can take a cycle-only bike pathway from your home to your work place but I doubt that many of us have the same advantage. BTW, do you enjoy using your bike during heavy snow falls and thunder storms or in sub-zero temperatures? (And what does your face feel like and how does it appear after a 30-minute ride in 10 degree cold or do you wear a helmet with a plastic face guard?)
jcj
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 2:20 p.m.
Karen, Thanks for confirming what I thought would be the problem at Geddes and 23. I seldom get over that way (never during rush hour) But I expected that though traffic on Geddes would dominate the roundabout. If someone disputes Karen's take on this interchange please give us your view.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:58 p.m.
10 miles is a 30 minute bike ride. 45 if you take it easy. A lot of people spend that much time driving a car. When I told my doctor I had a 3 mile commute, he said that does not really count as bike exercise because it isn't at least 30 minutes. Not everyone has arthritis. We must all share the infrastructure we pay for.
RichardJS
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1 p.m.
When I read things like this I wonder what happened to the America of my youth. Its like living in a nation full of spoiled children who never learned the meaning of the word "No". The economy is in a state of collapse and the money spent on this should be going to fix ixisting roads, not building unneeded bike paths.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:19 p.m.
make it possible for people to make a living.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.
Anyone who compares 2013 to the 1930s depression is out of touch. Things were way different then. People could find jobs, work, earn a living and save money. Budget cuts, lower wages, outsourcing to private contractors and other countries so rich corporate can pay crappy wages and get rich, etc., are making it difficult for people to do this nowadays.
Jamie Pitts
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 7:09 a.m.
The bicycle is the most efficient means of transportation ever invented. It is definitely worth investing in, especially given the economic situation we're facing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance
talker
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:38 p.m.
Please don't insult that person by referring to the depression of the 1930's. That statement could also be applied to the experience of many baby boomers. By the way, as schools became crowded with baby boomers (even with "new additions"), classes of 40+ students were common and accepted. I wasn't in Ann Arbor in the 1950's or 1960's, having moved here in the 1970's, but it's likely that baby boomers had similar situations in many places.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:23 p.m.
What about the ridiculous direct subsidies going to AATA bus service? People using cars do not get similiar direct subsidies. They have to pay for the full cost of their transportation. Why aren't bus riders, many of them rich or soon-to-be rich UM Students, required to pay the full costs of their rides?
bhall
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 5:20 p.m.
I'm sorry but gas taxes, vehicle fees and tolls cover only a fraction of the total US spending on roads. The bulk of the money comes directly from the US Treasury and state and local authorities from all taxpayers, regardless of whether they own or drive a vehicle.
Macabre Sunset
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 4:58 p.m.
The car is actually the most cost-effective means of transportation, when you consider the gas and road taxes. It gets a bad rap because we subsidize the trucking industry, and trucks are so heavy that they create the need for more frequent maintenance. But don't say drivers don't pay for their roads. We are not freeloaders, like bicyclists or (now) pedestrians in certain areas of A2.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:54 p.m.
We already spend billions for your car. Must it consume the entirety of our transportation budget?
ordmad
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:11 p.m.
Let's see, I'm guessing your youth encompassed some part of the great depression, no? Remember the TVA and all the public works projects. A lot of the projects Eli is talking about are similar: federal funds with state and local matches.
Jamie Pitts
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
Interesting write-up / interview... I really like the bridge from Wildt over N. Main St. idea, it will do a lot to connect the Upper Westside to the trails, businesses, and train station. That area could be great with this and other improvements. I've headed toward downtown after hiking around Bird Hills and have encountered problems as W Huron interacts w/ the exiting 14 traffic and N. Main on the West side of the street. It needs to be detangled and made friendly for cyclists and pedestrians, and not just for people like me on the weekend. That zone could be a great extension of the Main St. business district as software and maker firms establish themselves in the warehouses, and restaurants look for places to go to escape higher rents in the downtown core.
thinker
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 12:44 p.m.
Ann Arbor's permanent population is increasingly aging. That eliminates much bicycling, walking long distances, and even bus riding. Also, many resident must commute using cars. Don't forget this when you make plans to social engineer our transportation choices.
Mr. Me
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 6:37 a.m.
Walking and bus riding are the options that work for older residents. Most of them can't or shouldn't operate a motor vehicle.
talker
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:31 p.m.
There are people who have been the financial backbone of Ann Arbor for decades and who are now asked to pay more for transportation they don't use. First, it's assumed that all Ann Arborites can ice skate. Second, it's assumed that all Ann Arborites are able to walk a mile to a bus stop. Third, we subsidize trips to and from the airport on large buses. What happened to "dial-a-ride" using vans/minibuses? I'm sure the gas mileage is better. Also, excessive property taxes affect the revenues of local businesses. If a homeowner pays $6,000 a year in property taxes, that's $500m a month. If that homeowner pays $5,400. a year in property taxes, that's $450. a month and the $50 difference is likely to go to local restaurants and other businesses. We lost Pfizer, the city's largest property taxpayer. Since the U. of M. took that property off the tax rolls, when buying that property at a bargain price for the complex, when will the U. of M. be called upon to make up for some of the loss. Until then, I think Ann Arbor needs to cut discretionary expenses (after basic health and safety services) because Ann Arbor could end up like Allen Park. They spent too much on facilities that were supposed to enrich the community, but ended up bankrupt.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:17 p.m.
Car use is in steep decline? Where is the evidence of that fact? You can't see it on area highways and parking lots.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:53 p.m.
Actually, car use is on a steep decline. And record numbers of young folks aren't even getting licenses. More people than ever are working from home, among other things.
thinker
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
*residents
a2grateful
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
re: Portland: A good target model for our transit development? Transit: commuter rail, streetcars, steam locomotives, big trains stations, transit malls, no-automobile streets, gondola transit, international airport, heliport, busses, etc Transit population served within city limit: > five times that of city a2 Biking: Avg daytime temps: Dec/Jan mid 40s. Feb mid 50s. Mar high 50s, April 60s Mr. Cooper and Hieftje: Please consider moving to Portland, where your transit dreams instantly come true, because they already exist in mild climate. We'll all be much happier.
gbob
Tue, Feb 26, 2013 : 12:35 p.m.
Ottawa is one of the best biking towns and it's way north.
kuriooo
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 11:06 p.m.
The inclement weather makes it much more difficult to consider the reality of public transportation 6+ months out of the year, especially when coupled with the infrequency of the bus system. Who wants to wait for 15, 20 or 30 minutes in biting wind, drenching rain or snow?
JRW
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 10:01 p.m.
"Minneapolis is one of the top bike cities in the country. They get way more snow than a2." They sure do get a lot more snow than A2. However, Minneapolis has wonderful snow REMOVAL all winter, with trucks running 24/7 when necessary, unlike A2 that doesn't even think about plowing until 4" or more has fallen, a totally ludicrous and dangerous policy.
Conservation_Proponent
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.
Let us remember that Portland is also the home of the once environmentally trendy idea of Smart Growth which has been huge environmental failure in reality.
Edward Green
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:47 p.m.
I've adjusted to the weather here, so I embrace not spending money on gas, getting exercise, and not dealing with U of M parking. I'm from Texas originally, where bike lanes and even sidewalks are rare. Why rely on a car to get everywhere in a small town? You can still bike at least 6 months a year (I bike year round). There will always be younger people who are health conscious in a university town, so bike-ability is essential.
Craig Lounsbury
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 3:39 p.m.
Nicholas with all due respect "lots of us" is a pretty subjective term. There are certainly a few die hards who walk or ride bikes regardless of weather but you folks are a very small minority of the overall working population.
Nicholas Urfe
Mon, Feb 25, 2013 : 1:52 p.m.
It's fine if you can't handle the weather. There are still lots of us who walk or bike to work regardless of the weather. Minneapolis is one of the top bike cities in the country. They get way more snow than a2.