Governor questions Ann Arbor's decision to build Skyline; district says Snyder's claims are inaccurate

martini man

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 11:41 p.m.

How dare anyone ..even the Governor, to even think of taking issue with the enlightened liberal elitists of Ann Arbor ? For shame ..for shame !!

Jani

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 7:38 p.m.

It is easy for the Gov. to criticize the school district for decisions made several years ago... Not what I personally look for in a 'leader'.

Poorman

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:46 p.m.

Our tax base had been leaving the state in past years. People moving out is the primary reason for less graduates and reduced funding. The cuts Snyder did in prior years were due to families leaving the state to find work after losing their jobs. Education as a percentage of the state budget is fairly steady. Prior year cuts in the automotive industry reduced tax revenue significantly. You are now seeing increased funding for schools this year and it correlates to the recovery of GM and Ford. The old saying was, "as goes GM, so goes the country". This very true still for Michigan. Buy a Michigan made and designed car and you will help your schools. Funny, Ann Arbor has so many foreign cars driving around and can not understand why they have so little state tax revenue for their schools.

sHa

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:19 p.m.

You could not have explained things any plainer, Poorman.

Bridget

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:10 p.m.

Millage and operating are 2 separate revenue streams. The cost of building Skyline is irrelevant, in a way. The problem costs come from operating all of the facilities.

Jack Panitch

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 9:44 a.m.

Ms. Arndt: These are "blended-count" years. The significance is that for foundation allowance (funding) purposes – the only purpose relevant to the Governor's comments because he was diverting attention away from state-induced funding anemia and blaming the budgetary problems statewide on poor management decisions – the Michigan legislature told schools to count population twice a year and blend the count on a 75%/25% weighted approach. The purpose for blending the count was to get a picture more reflective of actual operating expenses than a once-a-year snapshot would yield and, then, to dole out dollars on the basis of that more accurate picture. Accordingly, use of CEPI Fall enrollment figures alone is wrong. You can take the blended count figures straight from the audited financials for the relevant years. For 2004, the relevant numbers appear to be 5,496 (high school) and 16,632 (total pop). For 2012, the relevant numbers appear to be 5,468 (high school) and 16,658 (total pop). To get trends, you would have to graph the intervening years, but the high school number was 5,533 in 2010. These numbers establish the Governor's profound ignorance about K-12 funding on a couple of levels: 1) he doesn't appear to have much of a command of the facts (when placed under pressure by a reporter, he reverted to what turns out to be a "made-up" empirical response); and 2) the example he reflexively cites establishes a lack of understanding that the increasing MPSERS liability and the State's failure to index foundation allowances for inflation, are the root causes of the need for Districts state-wide to make additional cuts every year (leaving schools with the equivalent of 62 cents purchasing power for each foundation allowance dollar). And then there is all the radical reformist legislation he and the Michigan legislature have passed in the last couple of years to exploit and further aggravate this critical problem.

Jack Panitch

Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:15 a.m.

CEPI reports both counts. 75%/25% is add three parts to one part and then divide by four. I don't think I would get hung up on the 90%/10% blend and how to convert or reconcile it.

Danielle Arndt

Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 6:59 p.m.

Jack, the "blended count" you speak of is now weighted 90-10. This was changed from 75-25 in the fall of 2012, making tracking enrollment trends using CEPI's blended counts a little trickier since the 2012 blended figures are computed differently than 2008's and 2004's (the two years cited in the story for comparison purposes).

Jack Panitch

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 4:54 p.m.

Thank you for the words of encouragement, aataxpayer. My only goal right now is to better myself as an advocate for the students of the AAPS.

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:44 p.m.

Jack, I sounds like you're immersed in facts and getting ready to run for the school board. It's a thankless job, but I would love to see you run.

Told U So

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 7:14 a.m.

When the public approved the school, it was an August election that wasn't well publicized, the voter turnout was very low and a new school was approved by 1500 votes. Most people didn't know there was even an election, let alone realize there was something substantial on the ballot. I attended the school board meetings following the vote and like many others, encouraged the Board to reconsider the opportunity. Being the home of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor portrays itself as having a higher standard for public education, however, when there was an opportunity to build two or three smaller schools such as Community High, where students could have more attention, more opportunity to participate in programs in theatre, sports, etc. the Board opted for a large school located in less diverse, higher income area. The people attending the Board meetings as that time noted the demographics strongly suggested the declining school population and lobbied for smaller schools throughout the city. There was also strong suggestions that if a large school couldn't be avoided that consideration should be considered to building a second school on the Pioneer campus, where the schools could share the athlectic facilities. This also offered the option of selling the Skyline property to help pay for the investment. Keep in mind, the original budget was for Skyline was $72 million, and I believe the project was $12 milliion over budget, something that opponents also forecasted. The Superintendent at the time, George Fornero and the Board which included Deb Mexicotte did not want to hear any of it. I never understood why their only agenda was to build a large school. So here we are , nine years later and all that the arguements the opponents had to the Skyline have come to pass. The Ann Arbor School Board dropped the ball.

Dan Ezekiel

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 2:11 a.m.

The governor's attempt to sidestep responsibility for what is happening to AAPS on his watch is unworthy and also illogical. Skyline is a capital project, paid for in full by the same voters who approved it. Had voters not approved Skyline (I voted no, by the way), AAPS's operating budget, set by the legislature, would be in the same fix as now. AAPS's problems aren't caused by any bumbling by the School Board. They are caused by the zealots in Lansing, on a mission to punish union teachers, dismantle public education and replace it with privately-run schools. AAPS's per-pupil funding from the state is now less than it was in 2002. In retrospect, Ann Arbor voters made a big mistake voting for Proposal A in 1995, ending local funding for our schools. I voted yes, believing the story that districts which had taxed ourselves to fund schools generously would be "held harmless". 18 years later, we aren't allowed to tax ourselves to hold the district harmless, as the Legislature raids the School Aid Fund to spend on colleges, to free up general-fund liability in order to fund business tax cuts. If we still funded our own local schools, I'm confident AAPS would not be in their current bind. From territorial times, Michigan citizens of both parties considered public education the cornerstone of our democratic system and have have taxed ourselves to provide schools for the children in our community. This investment, so lovingly built up, is being undone. What is happening to our proud Ann Arbor schools reminds me of the game Jenga. Let's see what happens if we remove this or that support for students. Transportation? Reading intervention? Counselors? 5th grade music? Will the structure still stand?

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:39 p.m.

Great comment.

Bikemama

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 1:09 a.m.

The heart of the Governor is truly aimed at doing what is right and best for our state. Sometimes he has been forced to make some very tough choices, which at the time were very "politically incorrect" with some. It is morally wrong to live in debt and spend funds knowing that your children and grandchildren must pay in the future for our comforts at the expense of their happiness. If only our Federal Government ran itself like Michigan our children would be much better off. And speaking of children, our governor sent his two older children through the Ann Arbor Public School system. He has seen the excessive wasteful spending and high administrator to pupil staffing numbers of the AAPS. It is about time that all government entities tighten their fiscal belts.

macjont

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:15 a.m.

Bad economics. Bad policy.

melissa

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:11 a.m.

Skyline is here, it is updated and beautiful, it gives the kids some pride each day when they get to attend a school like this. Huron is so dark and glum and looks horrible as I drive by it everyday. We should sell the property to the U of M (which has the engineering campus right down the street off Beal) they could buy the property put a few million into it and done. The district needs the money and everyone can stop complaining about the new high school. Any Takers??

Lake Trout

Mon, Jun 10, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.

They could, and remove another property from the tax base, thereby once again lowering any funding for schools as a whole.

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:37 p.m.

Demographics in Ann Arbor may lead to this someday, but not for many years.

Detached Observer

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.

I was a substitute teacher before Skyline was open and the overcrowding at Pioneer and Huron was ridiculous. During lunch students were allowed to wander anywhere in the building because there was no room for them in the cafeteria. This meant teachers had to baby-sit instead of using lunch time to prep for classes. A shortage of rooms meant that some teachers had to migrate between three or four rooms each day. These rooms were unsupervised during passing times. Often a teacher would arrive two or more minutes late due to trying to push a cart full of supplies through crowded hallways.

garrisondyer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:11 a.m.

This is a good point. Safety hazards/unsafe situations in our schools should never be overlooked. Schools are supposed to be safe places for the kids as well as professional settings for staff.

Arborcomment

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:09 p.m.

Suggesting some 4th estate assistance. May be time for a "Skyline X years after" story. On the one hand you have the Govenor, raising some issues - some dubious, some valid, but all mostly received and commented on with the usual A2 "warmth" towards him. On the other hand, you have a paid spokesperson for the AAPS attempting a rebuttal. This paid spokesman happens to be the daughter of a long time AAPS administrator, thus equaling two generations of paid-by-taxes salaries attempting to represent a district with a greatly less than stellar recent record. Onward fourth estate!

say it plain

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:08 p.m.

hear here! And get some interviews and profiles going...my guess is that the profile you'd develop of what Skyline has been versus what the idea-sellers sold to the public would be striking! (see @AMOC's comments above for hints...)

Tim Hornton

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:05 p.m.

Ann arbor people are progressive and enlightened! Whatever decisoon they make is sure to be ahead of the curve. We are citiziens of the world after all first.

Krupper1

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 2:57 a.m.

Do I detect the sarcasm font?

Tim Hornton

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:06 p.m.

Our brains are twice as big as most other cities Too.

mike gatti

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 8:58 p.m.

It is disheartening to see some folks begrudging this and future generations the educational opportunities they themselves received. It is even more disheartening to see them do it in the name of progress or reform.

Great Lakes Lady

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:04 p.m.

You're forgetting that AAPS paid out millions to settle a lawsuit brought by substitute teachers. AAPS was advised by attorneys NOT to use the form that they had substitutes sign.....they continued anyway.....ended up paying out millions. Poor decision making and mismanagement of funds over and over.....

mtlaurel

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:52 p.m.

"bad financial planning"-oh you mean like unfunded wars-okay/right on.....yeah some events worse than construction of Skyline High have caused lots of financial problems-trickle down from bad planning alright....."declining enrollment"-you mean like fewer people/as in people leaving or no longer coming into the State -example -Pulte moving headquarters out of Mich[300 jobs gone]-sounds like the pump is getting primed for some new thing that will be concocted by the legislature with their thumbs on Snyder's neck. Ric Snyder throws out talking points , but where is the leadership which is a part of every aspect of education? Unimpressed.

EyeHeartA2

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 11:27 a.m.

"bad financial planning"-oh you mean like unfunded wars-okay/right on" Which war did Rick declare? but don't let facts sully a good rant.

Ralph Pasola

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:51 p.m.

There will be about 20,000 fewer high school graduates in Michigan by 2022. This decline has been going on for a while.

Kathleen Kosobud

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:36 p.m.

What would Governor Snyder have Ann Arbor do? Unbuild the school? Stop construction in mid-project? Or perhaps repurpose the building as they did in Howell, after they built a beautiful, new, state-of-the (then) art school, used it for a year and then had to close it, and pack their students into the old high school? I recall the planning of Skyline--participation of the community to provide input about a model school with smaller learning communities housed in one building--with students being able to select from a number of different themes that would lead to different careers. I guess it's okay to contract these kinds of innovative experiments out to for-profit charters--that disingenuously promise to provide innovative curricula, all the way to the bank. When a public school system proposes to do something innovative, investing in infrastructure to make it possible, Governor Snyder is scornful. If $20,500 per pupil is what it costs for Greenhills to offer innovative curriculum, small class sizes and make the needed infrastructure improvements to maintain its' standing as a quality school, why do some people find it acceptable to cast stones at a public school system for offering similar innovations--WITH NO TUITION--to offset the costs of innovation? Way to go, Governor Snyder, way to go...

AMOC

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 8:08 p.m.

Kathleen - If AAPS had really built or operated Skyline as a school with smaller learning communities, or if they operated the magnet programs as immersive, integrated programs instead of as "cherry on top" 1 trimester classes, I would agree with some of your comments. What the planners implied they were building was "Community High North". What they actually did was something extremely different. What Skyline rapidly turned into was a Sports Palace; almost 40% of the square feet in the main school and over 50% of the money to construct and maintain the school and it's surroundings were and still are being spent on the athletic facilities. AAPS administrators lied to the public and the school board about expected operating costs and staffing levels, expecting that funding increases from the state would disguise the problems. Well, we were on the eve of a pretty major recession when construction started, and there haven't been many funding increases. So now it's very plain, we can't afford all the sports facilities, field houses, astro-turf, and athletic directors making well over 6 figures at all three comprehensive AAPS high schools if we are also going to have AP classes, 7th hour to enable students to take music and foreign languages, and the best-paid teachers and administrators in this county.

Sandra Samons

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:30 p.m.

Completely aside from whether or not his opinion on this topic has merit, what would it take to satisfy his megalomanic hunger for control?

Superior Twp voter

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 2:55 p.m.

You are most obviously speaking to Obama. Certainly NOT Gov. Snyder...

garrisondyer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:18 a.m.

That's a valid question. One day he'll be out of the governor's seat. With hopefully a replacement more suited to that seat occupying it.

Brad

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:43 p.m.

"However, Snyder sends his school-aged daughter to Greenhills School, one of the most expensive private schools in the state. Tuition for the 2013-14 school year has been set at $20,500 for a high school student." How is any of that the least bit germane to this story? Grind your axe on your personal time. Another failure of editorial oversight.

a2citizen

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:21 p.m.

Snyder has other children that attended Huron.

Brad

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:33 p.m.

He can afford to send his children to private school and chooses to do so. That is entirely his right in his private life. And unless that's the only child at Greenhills the same is true of a number of other people here. hat does not render him unable to separately consider public education in his capacity as governor. And I don't agree with him on that, but I also don't think it's related to his private life.

macjont

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:47 p.m.

Clearly germane to Snyder's views! The man proposes to educate our children by cutting money devoted to the task, while educating his own children at facilities built and maintained at sums far greater than what he thinks is appropriate for the general public. How is this not germane?

Parrhesia

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:02 p.m.

Tax cuts for the rich, huge cuts to funding for public education in Michigan. It's the new Gilded Age. My neighbor Gatsby would be proud (he made a fortune running Gateway computers into the ground).

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:43 p.m.

Which tax cuts for the rich are you talking about?

Joe Kidd

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:51 p.m.

I see a lot of complaining here, but I do not see anyone offering any solutions. I can vote Dem or Rep, but I prefer common sense over political rhetoric. Anti Snyder folks sure can criticize but where is you solution. Let me guess, raise taxes. On business or on the rich. Problem with that is Michigan is in competition with all other states for jobs and the states that are successful attract business with lower taxes. I agree that a third high school was a poor decision. I would have preferred serious research on whether or not expansion of Pioneer or Huron could have been expandeded. That said, we have one of the lowest personal income tax rates in the country and I think it is time for the legislature to look at that. This site has a link for comparisons: http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf I am disgusted at how K-12 is cut and how teachers keep taking the hits. Your pay is supposed to increase at least by a little, not decrease over the years. On the other hand, any school district board that pays a superintendent $250k needs to be seriously spanked. I see nothing new from this last one, only a bigger deficit. Finally I understand how certain funds can only pay for certain functions but I would like to see a state law that can force schools to pay off a deficit rather than build an artificial turf practice field that costs nearly one million dollars: http://www.annarbor.com/news/education/ann-arbor-looks-to-install-synthetic-turf-at-skyline-high-school-practice-field/

macjont

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:53 p.m.

Not sure you are right on the tax and business attraction question. Compare Mississippi etc with Connecticut, Massachusetts etc. Also, if you had spent any amount of time at Pioneer and Huron before Skyline was built, you might change your view on the need for a third high school.

sHa

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:21 p.m.

The reason you don't see anyone offering solutions is because no one wants to deal with or face the facts: the gravy train has ended.

Mark Salke

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:43 p.m.

With year after year of budget deficits that result in draconian corrective tactics like the threat of (more) layoffs, reduced services and de-funding athletic and extra-curricular programs, doesn't it makes sense to consider deploying physical assets efficiently? I've heard a number of suggestions in the comments I've read so far. Oh, and for gosh sakes, can we hire a Superintendent that will stay with the program? I think a big problem is the turnstile at the Super's chair. Consistent, informed leadership is needed to make and implement long-term decisions that affect students and the community.

pihiman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:57 p.m.

There's no question quality of education has gone down. I go to pioneer and my class sizes are bigger then what my brother had. There is less money, and the school is smaller so it can't support many opportunities that it formally had. My counselor knows this. My administration knows this, and my board knows this. I wish they would just admit their mistake, and say there sorry - but then again the're the ones getting paid for it and I'm the one suffering for it. And yes enrollment declined, we knew this 3 years ago and it hasn't changed. Its funny how this article talks about Greenhills, my brother switched from Greenhills to pioneer and he preferred pioneer. Now though I would give anything to get out of this hellhole. -Someone who actually knows what hes talking about because hes the one suffering for the boards mistakes.

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:31 p.m.

pihiman, The problems you describe would all be solved if AAPS were permitted to keep even half of school tax revenue generated within the AAPS boundaries. Best of luck as you complete high school. Take AP courses and save thousand on tuition (I couldn't do that at the private school I attended).

West Side Mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:46 p.m.

You have a point. School choice families are not helping to pay for expenses that are being paid from bond monies.

Jay Thomas

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:01 p.m.

Ann Arbor subsidizes school of choice students to the tune of a couple thousand dollars a year. Why do we need more overcrowded classes? Get out of school of choice!

Billy

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:27 p.m.

Lol...and everyone seems to hate on Snyder....yet here he is CALLING OUT fiscal irresponsibility... I kinda lean left....but I like Snyder, right-to-work drama or not.

Nicholas Urfe

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:23 p.m.

"Could you be specific about the cuts?" It is hard to be specific about cuts when the school district won't disclose the specifics of their spending. Or, worse, don't even know where the money is going.

Poorman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:17 p.m.

I don't think Snyder hates public education. I think he has cut funding fairly equally across the state budget so we do not run a deficit. This is responsible. All sectors complained initially pretty much the same. Public education is just so inefficient that they cannot stop growing their costs. Every year teachers get a raise, regardless of aduquate funds. Are their any studies that show higher paid teachers perform better? Every study I have seen has shown no correlation between pay and performance with grade schools. The questions regarding building Skyline should have been: 1) can we afford it. It looks like maybe not. 2) expansion costs to existing vs a new school building. Expansion may have been more cost efficient.

Poorman

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:29 p.m.

Attached is an AAPS contract. A few years old. These are not 1980 wages. Page 113 provides the automatic pay increases given just based on seniority. http://www.a2ea.org/docs/2009-11%20AAEA%20Contract%20OFFICIAL.pdf

Wake Up A2

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 11:01 a.m.

My husband has his contracts that go all they way back to the 1980's. His pay is far less now and is at 1995 levels. If you only believe the mac center thats your right but far from what happens. 15 years of raises gone in the last two contracts. We pay for our health care much more then in the past close to 25% for messa. This is not in your mac center numbers......

Poorman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 10:56 p.m.

Could you post the link for the contract that you have? I think the contract shows the pay raises and benefits, but not what the employees are making. Do you have both? Otherwise, I am not sure if your statement is correct. Here is what I have found for a prior Saline contract. http://www.mackinac.org/12600 http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/archives/epi/contracts/81120_2012-06-30_SEA_WCEA_MEA_E.PDF

Wake Up A2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:48 p.m.

If you look at their contracts....teachers in a2 pay is at 1995 wages.

Poorman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:46 p.m.

No, everyone should not get a raise every year. First, the organization needs to be able to afford it, and second, the employee needs to perform well enough to justify it. The contract guarantees a raise for every teacher from one year to the next regardless of performance. This has been the case for years and it has caused the recent unsustainable pay/benefit situation. The union gave back some money due to the district being over budget. This was not enough to avoid the debt and layoffs now facing AAPS.

Joe Kidd

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:54 p.m.

Not true. A teacher told me recently his pay has declined over the years. Besides, shouldn't everyone get a raise every year? No raise means less pay when you factor in inflation. What I get disgusted about is the gap between teachers and a superintendent who makes $250k and has no more skill than a super that would work for half of that.

CLX

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:02 p.m.

His agenda seems pretty clear - privatize schools and demonize public school teachers who want a fair wage. Charter schools pay teachers less than half (sometimes less than one third) of what they make in the public schools - many teachers with 20+ years of experience and masters dgrees have been offered $22k/year to work in a charter school when their public school was "converted." The question is whether we think teachers are worth so little, and what kind of teacher we expect to attract with that kind of wage. I don't think it serves our children well to have a constantly revolving door of young, inexperienced teachers (many of whom do not even have teaching degrees), so that a few folks have make a ton of money from charter schools. Not everything should be run for the benefit of corporate money-making.

Bridget

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.

http://www.salon.com/2011/09/12/reformmoney/

EyeHeartA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:05 p.m.

" - many teachers with 20+ years of experience and masters dgrees have been offered $22k/year to work in a charter school when their public school was "converted."" Many? Name three.

Commonsense

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:57 p.m.

Mr. Pollard is correct. The voters decision to decompress the overcrowded high schools was the primary driver and was the correct strategic choice. Whether the tactics used to implement the build and operations management were/are correct may be debated. But I would cautiously weigh the input of a leader who choses to not use the system and sends his children to a private institution.

Vince Caruso

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:46 p.m.

I attended many of the AAPS meeting on the high school options. We had 2 kids at high school age. It all seemed to revolve around SPORTS that can be statewide competitive, and have a school more like the suburban schools. The current research on demographics and effective high schools was never taken seriously. My kids went to Community and we felt it was more like what a school should be and is what most research shows, smaller high schools are more effective. The school board member who tried to argue these points were treated like traitors to the cause. The sports boosters had much more influence than warranted because they were very organized. State wide completive football was a big part of their effort and this when football head injuries are known to be very dangerous to high school players. Many parents now will not let their kids play football for this reason, as they should. I also feel we need to take into account the less well off families in the budget discussions. They may take the brunt of the effect of poor school board and administration planning for years to come.

Orangecrush2000

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:54 p.m.

And, we all know what SPORTS did for us on the football field, last Fall. (at least after the game...)

Krupper1

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:04 p.m.

How does citing Greenhills tuition contribute anything to this article except as a populist tweak against Snyder's personal success?

A2anon

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:30 p.m.

Isn't it obvious! Snyder helps fundraising efforts for his kids' private school that apparently needs more than $20,000 per kid to provide great education with small class sizes and lots of resources, while at the same time leads the effort to decrease public school funding from the meager 9K to a measly FIVE and put everything online so classes can be even more massive and cheap. Hypocrite.

Commonsense

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:02 p.m.

It may be that someone wants to suggest you get what you pay for? It will be interesting to review the college placements for Greenhills in comparison to the top 550 students from Pioneer, Huron and Skyline.

EyeHeartA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:49 p.m.

Dem talking point #1, class envy. Divide and conquer.

Topher

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:01 p.m.

Any ideas as to what would happen if AAPS closed and reopened all of the schools as charter schools? Would each charter get more money from the state? What would be the benefits/drawbacks?

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:21 p.m.

@AMOC - Be careful about the studies you cite. Many of them have fatal flaws.

AMOC

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 7:50 p.m.

Charter schools would get around $2000 LESS per student than AAPS now receives from the state. One of the reasons that some people support making more charter schools available is that they seem to have as good or better results for student learning when compared to the traditional neighborhood schools that surround them and the charters almost always cost significantly less per pupil.

walker101

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 10:33 a.m.

If 55 school districts throughout Michigan have deficits and only 10 are operating within their budgets what can you say? That those in charge really understand how to operate a business, kinda like how our administration is working, spend what you don't have.

Bear

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:56 a.m.

If you want to talk about waste, how about Howell's Parker High School, which cost $70 million to build and was closed after one year of operation. Skyline has been open for a few years and is functional. In Howell, you have a brand new building that was built on schedule and withiin budget, but could not remain open because of operating costs. Rail all you want against Skyline, but at least it is serving it's purpose and isn't shuttered after only one year of use. Livingston County has historically been one of the fastest growing counties in Michigan, yet they built a school that no one uses. At least Skyline is operational and being utilized by the community it was built to serve.

queenie

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:12 p.m.

Parker has been used as a middle school for the past 2 years, and LCC has used the building as a satellite campus for many years. Its athletic facilities are used throughout the school year also. The 2700 current students in grades 9-12 are crowded in 2 buildings, a somewhat renovated HHS and the old HS/MS building as a Freshman Campus. Howell Public Schools has 6 million dollars in its equity fund, which it has not used to balance its budget until this year.

B2Pilot

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:59 p.m.

Bear they closed it after 1 year when they realized they could not afford it, AND people were fired and faced legal action for failing to do their job on the school board. That would never happen here. They also are making payroll and operating within their means.

JRW

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:31 a.m.

1. Move Roberto to Stone/Tech, not Pioneer. 2. Snyder sends his kids to private schools, so it's easy to take shots at a public system he isn't part of. 3. Snyder should be focusing on the overall failure and incompetence of financial managers in AAPS, not building Skyline. 4. If Skyline had not been built, Pioneer and Huron would have needed large expansions to accommodate 2300-2400 students each. 5. Enrollment is stable over the last 10 years in AA, but it isn't going to have large increases in the future, and will instead experience slow overall decreases over the next 10 years with the aging population.

Orangecrush2000

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:48 a.m.

So, which school gets closed when they finally get serious about fiscal responsiblity... Huron or Pioneer?

aareader

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:30 a.m.

This is from the Nerd that has his kid in a private school. ...is pushing Charter schools (private schools funded by taxpayers), and cut funding to public schools across the state ...Structural deficit???? So where is his logic about a decision made by a publicly elected board with data and input from the community. One could speculate about why he really made this comment .... over time we will know.

B2Pilot

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:56 p.m.

areader all you have to do is look at Detroit area schools A2's board has been following their model since the mid-90's and it won't be long before we receive an emergency manager. We are borrowing now to meet payroll, we are putting up cell towers on school property for money, we are laying off teachers and there is still no long term solutions coming from the board on how to correct any of this. I think we HAVE SEEN OVER TIME what the results of poor leadership is in our district now. Michigan is now cited as a leader in education reform by the department of education in Washington -go figure

Charles Curtis

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:40 a.m.

Can AA.com do some fact checking. I had a student in Pioneer and while there was overcrowding, the enrollment was never close to 3200 students. I believe it was in the neighborhood of 2400-2500 students. If i am on target, then we might as well disregard everything coming from the district as far as numbers go. I think this is flat out lies, and what are the real numbers as far as current issues are?

Charles Curtis

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:55 a.m.

http://www.city-data.com/school/pioneer-high-school-mi.html has Pioneer at 2850 +/- for the few years before the shyline vote. Not sure of the source on that though, US News has a count of 1900 for there 2013 rankings, but not date on stats there either.

Kay Bass

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:08 a.m.

As a mom of two daughters attending high school in Ann Arbor, I have wondered why Pioneer is the school being asked to give up its 7th hour and Skyline has not been asked to make any such sacrifice. I know its semester system is sited. Could it be the median income of Skyline's families si so much higher than Pioneer's? Giving up the ability to take 7 hours at Pioneer will destroy the music program. The Grammy foundation has named the Pioneer program the best in the nation, and yet the School Board intends to dismantle it next year for lack of funds. Don't tell us that will not be the result. I have attended the meetings, read the cuts. If not having built Skyline would have allowed such exceptional programs such as music, theatre, choir to be offered to our kids then yes, we should not have built it. We will soon have a very mediocre school system. If you don't care about the kids, at least care about your home value and what a good school system brings to that. Arts programs increase graduation rates, music increases math scores, reading scores, it is such a shame. Skyline is a very pretty school but I am not sure that the sacrifices everyone else is making was worth it.

West Side Mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:47 a.m.

My recollection is that the cost of operating Skyline was projected to be $5 million per year. Based on other comments, that estimate was light. If we didn't have Skyline, we wouldn't be as far in the whole as we are and we may not have been faced with the cuts we are grappling with today.

Susie Q

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:22 a.m.

As stated earlier, Skyline may not have been a good investment.....but we would still be cutting programs and teachers. The repeated cuts to education in Mich are the culprits.....not a school. If Skyline was closed tomorrow, we would still be making cuts.

aataxpayer

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:21 a.m.

Kay, You are absolutely right about the impact of cutting 7th hour. It essentially destroys the arts and music programs. I hope it doesn't happen.

Kai Petainen

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:53 a.m.

I don't have an opinion on this issue, as I know nothing about it. But... the comments created by this issue are fascinating. A lot of arguments and counter-arguments for a nice debate. Carry on...

Susie Q

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:38 a.m.

One topic that I haven't seen here is the observation that even if Skyline had never been built and AAPS did not have the costs of running a third large high school; we would still be in a structural deficit. There are many districts in worse trouble than AAPS that did not build an expensive school. Mr Snyder's statements about Skyline are a red herring. He is trying to deflect Ann Arbor's frustration with his continued dis-investment in public education. We would still be cutting staff and cutting programs whether Skyline was built or not. This is a distraction, folks.

West Side Mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:49 a.m.

And AAPS hadn't violated state law with respect to substitute teachers and paid out millions to settle the lawsuits that followed. It's hubris, plain and simple. Over and over.

Scott Kett

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:30 a.m.

One thing for sure is that people see what they want to see. Tons of people in Ann Arbor lack common sense because they have formal educations. Formal educations are much heavier in giving information than truly teaching people to think. Colleges by their nature have a very heavy liberal bias, thus so do Ann Arborites. Ann Arborites are so caught up in being right and taking themselves seriously, that they often don't see the bigger picture. They believe because of their formal education that they are superior and have the "right facts" and while this can be true, a truly intelligent perheson knows how to think; especially in "the facts" don't add up. Ann Arbor's population has remained relatively the same for over 30 years - even if their are more kids, is that enough to warrant a new high school? The bottom line: does the costs equal the benefit? I think the answer is easy here. People don't really understand the costs which mean - especially long term. I, for one, am really tired of Ann Arbor and all of it's arrogance. We are one little town in a huge world and we seem to think we are the capital of the world. People rarely smile here, or say hi, or are impressed with anything. The comments on a2.com are almost always negative with some snarky, pie in the sky answer of how they know better. I wish people would learn to relax around here and stop being such know it all snobs. Ironically, arrogance is ignorance - something Ann Arbor just can't stand, yet in many ways is.

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:17 p.m.

@B@Pilot - Yes, AAPS gets more per student that most districts, but about 75% of tax revenue generated here goes to other schools.

Joe Kidd

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:02 p.m.

C'mon Scott, lighten up. These are the smartest people in the world. Common sense is WAY over rated.

EyeHeartA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.

Very accurate summary of the "little slice of heaven" here on the banks of the mighty Huron. Now, I just need to hop in my BMW and it's off to the farmers market. Did I miss SELMA? Must buy local, it's trendy.

B2Pilot

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.

AAtaxpayer - A2 school districts receive more per pupil money than other districts

Rosarium

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:05 a.m.

"Ann Arbor is a nice place, but it's out of touch with reality." Quoted for truth! Your comments are spot on, thanks!

Scott Kett

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:23 a.m.

The very fact that this received so many negative votes proves my point. People don't have the humility to see they could be wrong or don't always have the answers. @aamom, nowhere is my comment pie in the sky, snarky, or arrogant - I simply state how things are here. I have lived in Ann Arbor my whole life, so my comments are not off the cuff. I stand back and observe people here all the time. Ann Arbor is a nice place, but it's out of touch with reality.

aamom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:46 a.m.

"The comments on a2.com are almost always negative with some snarky, pie in the sky answer of how they know better." Ironically, that exactly sums up how your post came off!

aataxpayer

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:19 a.m.

Capital of the world? No. More like the center of the universe! I know we can come off as arrogant, but let's remember that the vast majority of school tax dollar raised in Ann Arbor are not spent here.

bluejunk

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:30 a.m.

Not only does Mr. Snyder send his kids to Greenhills, but has helped promote that they need to fundraise because $20,000/year for each student is not enough. Not having had children in public schools (okay, except for a small amount of time for son to play sports - guess Greenhills wasn't good enough) he is out of touch with reality on education. Our taxes are high enough in Ann Arbor and reality is we "donate" most of that money to other school districts. Proposal A worked for a while, but we are now the school district in need.

JimmyD

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:09 a.m.

Pro A2: Enrollment is stable overall & the old HS' were overloaded; Gov's Impact: What has the annual (inflation adjusted) per student funding been from the State?

longtime AA

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : midnight

All the discussions have passed over an important point. The vote to build Skyline, and the demographics involved, all occurred before PFIZER left town. Had Phizer notified Ann Arbor in a responsible way, rather than just picking up and leaving, the vote may have been different. And you know that Pfizer executuves had to know they were leaving while the vote to build a new school was going on. Corporate responsibility at its best!

Widow Wadman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:58 p.m.

It's possible that the vote may have been different if it had been made after Pfizer announced its decision, but I wonder. I think that people all over Michigan, not just in Ann Arbor, denied demographic trends which clearly showed that businesses were moving elsewhere, people were moving, and jobs were being lost. I was not all surprised when Pfizer announced the decision to cease operating in Ann Arbor. That decision fit with other measures that the company was taking. I think that people just wanted to keep on spending though there were many signs that such spending was unsustainable (not just spending on a new school but on new cars and homes). Some people still have not admitted that things have changed for Michigan and that hard decisions have to be made to support schools, roads, water and sewage services, and other items. It's troubling that some of the leaders of AAPS pushed hard for this new high school with the pretty certain possibility that the attendant debt would pressure the school district for years to come. Some of those people are still at AAPS and are not able to make the hard decisions that are necessary to balance the budget.

aataxpayer

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:38 p.m.

The GOP is anti-"brick and mortar" traditional schools and favors for profit on-line schools (expect for their own kids). The traditional notion that good public schools are a cornerstone of our democracy seems to be lost on the current leadership of the GOP. At this point they seem to be so anti-MEA that they are willing destroy public schools simply bust the teachers union. I used to think Governor Synder was above this Tea Party mentality, but now I'm not so sure. Great schools do require new thinking, but the presumption that for-profit on-line schools at better needs to stop. What we need it more innovation - more programs like the Legacies Project that teach students at Skyline how to be better citizens and better equipped for the workplace. We have an excellent school system. Let's stop destroying it.

aataxpayer

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 3:14 p.m.

@a2mom and Jay - What's your point? I didn't bash Greenhill or brick and mortar private schools. My problem is with the bias that favors for-profit on-line schools.

Jay Thomas

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:34 p.m.

No democrat politician in Washington D.C. sends their kids to public school (and that district spends twenty thousand something a year per pupil).. But boy do they and their teacher's union buddies have a mutual lovefest going on.

a2mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:10 p.m.

and all democrats send their kids to public schools??

Matt Cooper

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:33 p.m.

Hmmmm. Rick Snyder making nonsensical, uneducated and false statements without a shred of fact or evidence to back up those statements. Who would have ever seen that coming?

Matt Cooper

Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:22 a.m.

I surely will. Thank you.

Jay Thomas

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:35 p.m.

The AAPS board and administration have mismanaged things. But put all of the blame on Snyder if you like.

macjont

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:23 p.m.

Our sons graduated from Huron, the last in 1999, and we were thrilled with the education they received. After my retirement as a lawyer in 2001, I did some substitute teaching at both Huron and Pioneer for a couple of years, and each school had far more students than was suitable for either. Limited exposure to be sure, but I had more than one experience "subbing" in classrooms too small to seat the many students assigned, let alone teach them. From my limited experience, I had to conclude that another high school was necessary, no matter what the demographic trends might have been. Mr. Snyder is simply off base on this one.

Ruth Kraut

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:16 p.m.

The reason Ann Arbor has to cut funds is because the Governor has been leading the charge to cut funding via the school aid fund. Next year, Ann Arbor Public School's per-pupil funding will be *less than* the district's per-pupil funding in 2001-2002! That is twelve years ago. You can see how other districts fare next year as well, here: http://a2schoolsmuse.blogspot.com/2013/06/school-aid-budget-exposed-implications.html Ann Arbor residents pay property taxes that support other school districts. (We are a "donor district.") Governor Snyder needs to take responsibility for diverting the school aid fund away from K-12 funding.

Jay Thomas

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:40 p.m.

We are a donor district because that's the way the democrats wanted it. That goes back before Snyder, you know. Same reason the sales tax was raised from 4 to 6% (also by democrats) because some districts (cough... Detroit) just weren't making it from their paltry property tax receipts.

longtimer

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:16 p.m.

I don't like the current governor, either, but the AAPS budget woes speak for themselves. Whether we needed a third comprehensive high school or not (and I happen to believe we did not), we couldn't afford it. The voters were misled. The state of Michigan was already in decline financially in the early 2000s. National and state demographic trends were clearly pointing downward and the then AAPS superintendent said regretfully in 2000 (approx.) that the district would not be able to afford a third high school. She got fired, as I recall. A lot of us would rather have two high quality comprehensive high schools ---crowded though they might be---and a healthy school system, both academically and financially--- than so many buildings. With so many cuts already made and more looming, the kids are the ones who are suffering because of poor district planning over the past 10+ years. And I'm not seeing anyone, including the governor, leading us out of this mess.

Joe Kidd

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:05 p.m.

I'm not all that impressed with the gov either, but I like him a heck of a lot more than the last one, who I really blame for doing nothing while Michigan plummeted. We lost an auto factory to Tennessee where the UAW is rejected. She waited until Detroit PS reached a debt of at least $200 million before appointing a financial manager, and did nothing when the school board vilified him. So I will give Gov. Snyder a chance to see if we can't at least put the brakes on.

longtimer

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:36 p.m.

I don't underestimate the impact of overcrowded high schools. I had kids at Pioneer when the population peaked at over 3000. But if you can't afford something, you can't have it-----even if you need it.

macjont

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:27 p.m.

I'm afraid you underestimate the impact of overcrowded schools. But then you are not alone.

Rick Stevens

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:14 p.m.

Of course, Snyder didn't have his facts right. He rarely does. He certainly didn't at SPARK (phony job creation numbers). And, of course, his kids don't even go to A2 public schools...

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:05 a.m.

You are incorrect. His daughter went to a private high school after going to public schools. Everyone else - public school.

Nick Danger

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:56 p.m.

I am so tired of a govenor who sends his kid to the most expensive private school in Ann Arbor unloading on public education.He is so out of touch with the rest of us and uses every opportunity to prove it

vivian

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:43 p.m.

Oops--"the Obamas' choice"--misplaced apostrophe. And I forgot to say that you're quite right in saying that A2 schools and DC schools aren't comparable. But that wasn't quite the point, either.

vivian

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:40 p.m.

Bridget, it's true that I'm no fan of President Obama, for many reasons, but I don't hate him. I disagree with him. However, that's not really what my comment was about. I was reacting to Nick Danger's and some other people's comments about Snyder and using a comparison that I thought was apposite. It's illogical to assert that a person disdains public schools and then accuse him of hypocrisy if he doesn't favor them for his own children. It would make sense to call him a hypocrite if you could cite his avowed support of public schools and then point out that his children don't attend them. I thought that the Obama comparison (introduced by SonnyDog09) would reinforce that point, but I concede that it could be taken as off-topic. Still, what do you think about the Obama's choice? Do you think it's OK?

Bridget

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:05 p.m.

Viv: quit comparing DC schools to A2 schools. You just want to bring in your hatred for Obama, and it's inappropriate and illogical.

vivian

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:42 p.m.

Nick Danger, have you not read the comment stream? Several people have pointed out (correctly) that Snyder's son graduated from Huron High. Also, did you happen to notice the question SonnyDog09 posed regarding the Obamas' daughters? If it's true (and I don't know how any of us can know one way or the other) that Snyder disdains public education and sends his child to a private school, he's not being as hypocritical as someone who claims to value public education but does the same. Would you say that the President is out of touch with the rest of us, as you say about Snyder? OK, go ahead and let the 'down' votes fly--but isn't anyone else upset that President Obama eliminated vouchers for public school students in DC while sending his own kids to an exclusive private school? Whatever you may think about his policies overall, that's just wrong.

Jay Thomas

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:45 p.m.

aamom, when the stimulus money disappeared it left an even bigger hole for Snyder to fill. Worse property values continued to decline. Granholm always looked for easy fixes that were not real.

aamom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:47 p.m.

B2Pilot First of all, if you're going to blame Granholm for using stimulus money to fund education, you have to also admit that our having less money is on the shoulders of Snyder. This problem is so much bigger than mismanagement of money at the local level. I wish that life could be that simple! Lastly, if we are considered a leader in public education (please cite by whom) that is so sad for our country. Just spent some time at some schools in Alpharetta GA. Wow! Lots of good stuff going on there. They actually teach even the lower grades by ability level instead of worrying about making the low achievers feel bad. There is lots of movement throughout the day as kids might leave for excelerated math but come back for regular reading etc. Wish we could see some of that here!

B2Pilot

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:40 p.m.

Steve HIS policies? Isn't A2 schools making the spending decisions? Granholm was borrowing stimulus money to fund education how is that sustainable? The problem is A2 is overstaffed with administration and those administrators failed to forcast spending years ago. The facts seem to support that as Michigan is now a leader that other states {yes even democratic administrations] are looking at for education reforms. The system was unsustainable and the education to the public was less than 'acceptable'

Steve

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:39 a.m.

B2Pilot-Nobody is denying that right to him and the fact that he has the money to provide that option is fine, but his policies are adversely effecting the ability of the public schools to provide the best education possible to a substantial majority of Michigan students.

B2Pilot

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:40 p.m.

As a parent I want the best education for my kids and that is a parents decision- not yours; That is the beauty of living in the USA.

tim

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:48 p.m.

Snyder should know better. A2 is not a manufacturing town and has as low an unemployment rate as most anywhere in the country. I didn't like Granholm but voting for Snyder was like " jumping from the frying pan into the fire " --never again.

sHa

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:10 p.m.

Since there is only a finite amount of tax money to go around, I would argue that the Governor is doing the job that the voters of Michigan elected him to do. He is balancing the State's budget and subsequently, everyone is forced to deal with it. The gravy train has ended. Not much fun, but just exactly what the State of Michigan needed to do.

tim

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:41 a.m.

The State has to-- by law balance the budget this fact is obvious to anyone that understands State law. Now Snyder wants to tax his way out of trouble while at the same time trashing the public school system. Does he care? Of course not he send his kid to an exclusive private school.

sHa

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:41 a.m.

It's obvious to some that someone, i.e. Snyder, had to be a grownup and stop the spending of money that the State no longer has. In fact, maybe never had.

Jon Saalberg

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:12 p.m.

@Usual Suspect: No, not changing my mind. The third high school was, and still is, needed, unless you like students attending classes in stifling hot, shabby, portables. Pioneer and Huron are now just crowded, not overcrowded. As for the Governor, it's surprising to hear him weigh in on an issue which he has assiduously avoided by sending his own kids to an expensive private school. Doesn't really speak from the voice of experience.

SonnyDog09

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:48 p.m.

"As to the governor's kids, it is a fact that he has eschewed public schools for private schools and if the governor is such a big proponent of public schools, why aren't those schools good enough for his kids?" Do you feel the same way about the Obama girls going to an expensive, private school in DC instead of DC public schools?

Jon Saalberg

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:15 a.m.

"We did need more classroom space. We absolutely did not need another "comprehensive" high school attached to a professional level athletic training complex, which is what Skyline High became when the school district got heir hands on all those millions of dollars." This would be opinion, not fact - and I would appreciate an explanation as to what is wrong with Skyline having decent athletic facilities. Saying they are "professional level" is meaningless. As compared to what? And what "millions of dollars" are you talking about? I saw at least one comment that insinuated that the overcrowding wasn't so bad at Pioneer. So that means if it is possible to divide the large high school population among three high schools so the Pioneer and Huron aren't overrun, we shouldn't have done anything to alleviate that issue? Really? As to the governor's kids, it is a fact that he has eschewed public schools for private schools and if the governor is such a big proponent of public schools, why aren't those schools good enough for his kids?

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:03 a.m.

AMOC is correct, Jon. Only one of his children went to a private school. Your facts are incorrect. So apart from that, your comment is, well, completely wrong.

AMOC

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:42 p.m.

Jon - The governors' older kids attended Huron, at and near the peak of the overcrowding. He was and is quite familiar with the issue. We did need more classroom space. We absolutely did not need another "comprehensive" high school attached to a professional level athletic training complex, which is what Skyline High became when the school district got heir hands on all those millions of dollars.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:54 p.m.

It's just terribly unfortunate that we can't redirect the money that was spent on the bond issue to programs to improve outcomes. The solution isn't simply about funding, there are serious reforms needed to focus on outcomes, but I'm sure if the choice had been given to spend what was spent on Skyline or redirect half that amount into programs, we'd be in a better place today. Outcomes have not improved with the building of Skyline.

T

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:47 p.m.

In the 80's, elementary was k-6, junior high 7-9, and high school was 10-12. Why did they restructure this? All I saw was the high schools become over crowded and the elementary schools close. Also if Pioneer is overcrowded how did they have extra space to lease to the rec & ed department.

Maria Huffman

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.

The Governor can't decide when everyone is to start talking about school funding, because everyone already is talking about them, and we invite him to join the discussion. In fact, there are upcoming forums on the subject of AAPS school budgeting and he would be a welcomed participant, I'm sure.

Homeland Conspiracy

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:43 p.m.

He wanted it built in China

S.Black

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:28 p.m.

If I recall correctly, a previous A2.com article cited stats that indicate that there are far more applicants and student interest in Community High, necessitating a lottery, but Skyline is opened up as a Choice school for anyone wanting to attend, even out of district. Seems like someone should be listening to the students. I think Mr. Snyder has a lot of good points this time, even if he chooses to send his student to Greenhills. I did not vote for him but he sure has impressed me lately. The Ann Arbor school board and school administrators have looked very silly as of late with some decision making, giving some of us cause to listen to Mr. Snyder.

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:19 p.m.

"There are test scores" that correlate to demographic data. That's like believing that the children of rich people are innately smarter and more deserving.

DJBudSonic

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:29 a.m.

"Hooters High"

TryingToBeObjective

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:28 a.m.

There's no need to question, @AA resident. There are test scores that support the education Community provides.

A A Resident

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:22 p.m.

I question whether student interest and applications are the best gauge of the quality of education. What would happen if we opened a high school where there was no homework, and strippers were brought in every Friday?

chapmanoncopley

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:04 p.m.

Maybe its time to realize that Community High School is a luxury that the District can no longer afford, and move those students back to their home schools.

West Side Mom

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 5:15 p.m.

The biggest concern among school board members is Roberto Clemente costs significantly more per student to operate than the other high schools. According to AAPS documents, it costs $18,941 per pupil to operate Clemente. A2 Tech costs $14,804 per pupil. Community costs $8,253 per pupil and Huron, Pioneer and Skyline cost around $5,000 per pupil, district information says. - Danielle Arndt, http://www.annarbor.com/news/education/ann-arbor-performance-committee-to-discuss-future-of-roberto-clemente-school/ I am not following the financial points you are trying to make about the 7th hour at Huron and Pioneer, and trimesters at Skyline. I understand the district has said that 7th hour at Huron and Pioneer costs approximately $500K and trimesters at Skyline cost approximately approximately $300K. To keep the math simple, let's assume there are 1600 students in each of these schools. That means the per student cost of 7th hour is $156.25 and the per student cost of trimesters is $187.50. These are amounts that already included in the $5K per student cost at the comprehensive high schools. So how are these options more costly to the district that CHS when per student costs at CHS exceed $8K? Roberto Clemente and A2 Tech are also more costly on a per student basis. That's not unexpected given the student populations each serves. In terms of Roberto Clemente, if we think it is part of the mission of public schools to retain the most vulnerable, struggling students and help them obtain a diploma (which I do), then we need to accept that doing so will likely cost somewhat more. That said, even those schools are going to have to accept cuts, if not this year, then next.

TryingToBeObjective

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 1:23 a.m.

Please excuse the typos..........

TryingToBeObjective

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 1:22 a.m.

@West Side Mom, since you do not have kids that are high school age, you don't know that CHS is a sacred cow. Every time there is a discussion on here about AAPS funding, you cry about Community. IF you had a kid there, YOU would know that sacrifices have already been made. It costs almost four times as much to send a kid to Roberto Clemente, and almost as much to A2tech. I don't see you complaining about them. It costs more to provide the luxury of seventh hour classes at Pioneer and Huron. But you don't complain about that. Trimestes cost more at Skyline. but you havent said aword about that. not everyone gets intothe "magnet lottery" at Skyline. but again, no complait from you. You might do a little actual research about the cost of students at CHS vs. the costs at other high schools. You might learn, as I did, that the BOE doesn't exactly keep accurate accounting. In other years, it actually costed LESS for students at CHS. But again, you weren't complaining then. If Community were relocated to another building, it wouldn't function the same way it does now. But then, you'd know that, if you actually did a little homework yourself, instead of making arbitrary suggestions without ANY knowledge or experience. What you read from the BOE isn't always accurate. If you haven't figured that out, Community would not be a good choice for your family. At CHS, people are open minded. I can't figure out why you would constantly suggest closing CHS if your kids want to go there, and you apparently have NO IDEA how the school functions VERY successfully where it is. Do your kids know what you're up to?

West Side Mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 10:02 p.m.

My kids are not yet high school age, so I am not the whiner TryingtobeObjective suggests. Both my middle schoolers are interested in the program and will likely put their names in the hat, if the program survives. If they don't get in, they will go to one of the main stream high schools because we are committed to public education. CHS is unfair because it cost more to run on a per student basis and it is not available to all students for whom it would be an appropriate choice. It's possible that both issues could be addressed positively if the program was relocated into another AAPS building that could accommodate more students. We have a serious budget deficit that will only be solved by painful and unpopular decisions. CHS cannot remain a sacred cow.

notnecessary

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:06 a.m.

@westsidemom - I'd rather 400 have it than zero. No race to the bottom please

TryingToBeObjective

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:05 a.m.

That's why Community has a lottery @ West Side Mom. Its fair to EVERYONE. Why is it that the people whose kids don't get into Community choose to whine incessantly, instead of being proactive and looking for another option? There are other alternatives, and there are many who attend classes at Community who are not enrolled full time there. MANY. There is also an online and community resource program that is run by CHS for the ENTIRE district, with kids from all three comprehensive high schools. It is also in high demand, with a waiting list- and that one is first come, first gets. Community isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. It serves a purpose for some students who are a good fit. Being a student at Community is not for everyone. It requires a student to be self motivated. Theres no "mastery program", like Skyline. You do the work, you get the grade. They have to be willing to concede to FAR fewer electives available to the comprehensive high schools. One could argue that the enormous amount of electives offered by Pioneer and Huron, the seventh hour opportunities to get your schedule filled with every single class your heart desires, as well as the trimesters at Skyline, where students graduate with several EXTRA credits that the rest of the schools, CHS included, don't get- these are all luxuries. Sometimes Community students have to make choices due to the limited electives available, or when classes are filled. My older kids went to Pioneer. Yep, it was ridiculously crowded. Never took it out on those " lucky kids" at Community though. CHS is full to capacity. If you want to close something, look at the half empty schools in AA.

West Side Mom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:56 a.m.

How is it fair that 400 "lucky" students get more $$ plus an education that seems to be demonstrably better than what the other 4000 are receiving. This is a public school system.

foobar417

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:46 a.m.

Moreover, you could possibly lose money if those kids leave for private schools. I would want to see an analysis of pros and cons to the community as a whole before making a decision like that. Parents are increasingly looking at diverse options for their children, so losing one of those key options could really hurt AAPS in the medium-to-long-term (and hence hurt property values). (And no, I don't have a kid at Community nor am I likely to send one there.)

aataxpayer

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:43 p.m.

The basic problem is that a program like Community High cannot be turned on and off like a light switch. If we destroy the excellent program at CHS we may never be able to replicate it.

Wondering

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:59 p.m.

Between our Republican governor who wants to incite riot about long-past issues among the constituents who are the most likely to work to unseat him (using problems that he himself created to lead the charge)....and our Democratic mayor who apparently wants to figure out how to use non-existent tax dollars to pay all the many organizations and talented artists (street and otherwise) who donate services daily throughout the city to support the wonderful culture of our city....one can only shake one's head in wonder about where our common sense has gone....? And what our political options might be....?

Sparty

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:57 p.m.

What ... you expect FACTS from Snyder ? Please. Haven't you learned better by now ?

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:18 a.m.

And we expect the TRUTH from Margolis?

Nerak

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.

Back in the 1990's, when I was on a redistricting committee for AAPS, the projections (taken from SEMCOG and some other company specializing in school projections) -- when broken down by "elementary,", middle school" and "high school" showed that by the early-to-mid 2000s the elementary population would grow, the middle school population would be flat, and the high school population would decline. Skyline opened right about the time that the projections showed a high school population decline. So Snyder is correct to a degree, but the majority of voters decided that the overcrowding issue couldn't wait for the bubble to smooth out.

jondhall

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:53 p.m.

Teachers have spoke , libs have spoke . So what he has the $$ to give his kids a good education I would expect no less, thank you Honorable Governor Snyder , I believe in you !

Andy Price

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:59 p.m.

*spoken

Morris

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:44 p.m.

The only real problem for Ann Arbor Schools is that due to the cap imposed by Prop A years ago, we are not even allowed to vote on levying the taxes we would be willing to pay in order to have the high quality school system we want. Prop A has never been good for AA.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:50 a.m.

Morris - Would the alternative been any better? The state was about to get a discrimination lawsuit filed because of the inequity of school finance. Guess what, a federal judge would have done with financing in the state? There would have been NO hold harmless money if the suit had been filed. The plaintiffs would have won in a heartbeat and AAPS would have the same money to spend as every other district, instead of almost $2000 more per student.

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:18 a.m.

And that was the case in 2000. There is plenty of room in Ypsilanti. Send your kids there.

Wondering

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:43 p.m.

Yawn. Are we really allowing Rick Snyder to pull Ann Arbor's chain on this one? Let it go. This issue was debated for 10 years....while there were fights in the halls frequently at overcrowded Pioneer and Huron....finally we got it together to make a decision and to move forward with a solution. No solution is perfect. After debating this issue for close to 20 years now, it would seem that it just might be time to move on. One thing Rick Snyder understands very well.....how to get folks totally bogged down in past issues, so his current shortcomings, and his major role in the deplorable public school deficit issues, is not the topic that is debated. All good dictators know the routine....get folks all riled up about some emotional irrelevant long-past issue so you don't have to deal with the substantive issues that you are failing miserably to address. Fortunately, I think Michigan is not a dictatorship....so let's please DO something about such ridiculous governance.

Fat Bill

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:34 p.m.

Typical snob mentality. He doesn't care about what the peasants need for their children; his kids get to go to an exclusive private school. Pardon me, but would you have any Grey Poupon?...

aamom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:40 p.m.

Maybe his daughter hated the overcrowding and dumbing down of education and that's why she asked to go to Greenhills. Would love to know why she asked, but I'm sure we'd only get her dad's answer if we asked instead of hers.

DJBudSonic

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:24 a.m.

Fat- thanks for bringing that one back LOL

DonBee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:47 a.m.

Mr. Bill - His son graduated from Huron. His daughter was in AAPS until she asked to go to Greenhills. This has been stated over and over and over again. Verified a number of times.

B2Pilot

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:34 p.m.

Fat -thanks for reinforcing the A2 arrogance

mgoscottie

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:58 p.m.

What do you mean by earn it? Did Rick Snyder work super hard completing his homework in high school?

jondhall

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:55 p.m.

Hey Fat Bill earn it you can do with it as you please STILL A FREE COUNTRY!

JustaThought

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:34 p.m.

A third school may have certainly been warranted to alleviate overcrowding at the two predominant high schools but the problem is that Skyline is simply too large and too expensive. There was no reason to build a megalith when the trend has been towards smaller structures with room to expand if needed. That place cost a fortune to build and costs a fortune to operate and maintain -- even with green practices. It's put a strain on the AAPS budget although it isn't the only factor. Further, the trend towards smaller structures is because students learn better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_schools_movement See also: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/05/17/small-schools-rising.html See also: http://www.educationworld.com/a_issues/issues108.shtml At least that's the way I see it. That said, what's done is done. Skyline exists and it is the job of the AAPS and the State to make sure it and all the schools provide the best outcomes for our children. Snyder's Ms. Margolis moaning about who to blame for past decisions isn't beneficial and is looking backward instead of forward.

Joe Kidd

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:27 p.m.

My thinking too JustaThought. There is aesthetic and functional and when it comes to public tax spending functional should come first.

JustaThought

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:34 p.m.

I meant to end with "Snyder and Ms. Margolis moaning about who to blame..."

GratefulReb

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:33 p.m.

The Governor should have directed his remarks towards Community High. There is no reason for this school to remain open given the current financial situation.

Nick Danger

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:19 a.m.

A school that size that has produced 3 Rhodes scholarr should remain open forever

TryingToBeObjective

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:27 a.m.

How much would U of M pay for Pioneer?

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:16 a.m.

Thank you. It's an unnecessary waste of public funding when there is room at the other 5 high schools.

Mindfulmoon

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:16 p.m.

I agree. As much as I love the idealistic mission of Community, and would love for something like that to be an option for my daughter when she is older, the fact that Community continues to exist even though only a small percentage of lucky lottery winners can attend makes it an unjust venture at this time. Many are suffering for the benefit of the few.

Wake Up A2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:30 p.m.

"Relentless positive change".....really? Bringing up a topic which divides the people of ann arbor I.e. pulling the scab off an old wound is not positive. His information shows the lack of understanding and incorrect numbers....sounds like him quoting the Michigan budget again.

jusayin

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:30 p.m.

Gee wiz. If we keep offering public education to the middle class, pretty soon they'll all be too smart to fall for the right wing lies. Then what will all the R's do? They'll all have to run for office in Mississippi!!

TVR

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:27 p.m.

The Governor is absolutely correct on the Skyline facts. There was an Ann Arbor News article at the time that illustrated the demographic trend provided by a school district consultant. It showed that by the time Skyline was built, the school population would be on the downhill slope. Despite this, the Superintendent (now long gone--as usual) and the Board pushed for a millage and sold it to the public by not only including the new school, but by also adding something in the budget for every school in the district. Vote for the package and your kids school gets some upgrades! There was also an ongoing scare campaign about horrible overcrowding in the high schools. More baloney--my kids were in Pioneer at the time and it was a minor inconvenience. Now we have 3 schools to maintain, extra maintenance staff, another team of administrators, a huge millage to pay off, and to pay for all these new admin staff--fewer teachers. Brilliant! The only reason Pioneer is crowded now is because portions of it have been taken over by Rec & Ed. Building a modest addition to Pioneer to get over the hump with a plan in mind to re-deploy it to other uses would have made a lot more sense. Liz needs to do some fact checking, rather than sending out press releases justifying a poor decision.

CLX

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:50 p.m.

Sorry, but the conditions at Pioneer were not an inconvenience -- they were downright unsanitary and dangerous. Although that does not mean that Skyline was necessary, let's not discount the often unheated portables with multiple infestations just because Skyline turned out to be so poorly designed and run. Those kids at Pioneer deserved so much better.

Steve

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:23 a.m.

Basic bob-Dr Fornero came to Ann Arbor after a number of years as the principal of West Bloomfield High School. Not exact two states away. He was originally from Illinois and did return there after his stint at AAPS, but by the time he came to AAPS he was very familiar with the issues facing Michigan schools.

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:15 a.m.

You fail to mention that Superintendent Rossi Ray-Taylor was pubicly skeptical that the district could afford to operate another large high school. She was forced out and replaced with a candidate from two states away (anyone remember George Fornero?), who is now long gone. He publicly supported the construction, knowing that he would not have to operate it. I'm happy that they added capacity to the high schools and were able to get kids out of the portables (a bit too late, at that) but now they are unwilling to make the decisions necessary to make the third large high school practical.

jondhall

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:57 p.m.

That's a great observation !

jusayin

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:26 p.m.

His feelings on Skyline should be a foregone conclusion...money spent on education, children and space to teach them are wasteful in this warped guy's opinion. "Why...we coulda given that money to a deserving campaign contributing corporation for gosh sakes"! signed-the guv

Barzoom

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:19 p.m.

Skyline is, and always has been an unnecessary waste of taxpayer money. It should be closed.

Steve

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:12 a.m.

A majority of taxpayers disagree with this statement.

EyeHeartA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.

He should be asking about the boutique school, not the one we needed. Yep, swing and a miss there.

bill s

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:09 p.m.

opps.... I meant to say "journalists are now comfortable starting paragraphs " with the word but. I guess I'm not so good at proofreading either. :(

EyeHeartA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:16 p.m.

but still its better than opps. lol, jk, rothflmao and all that.

bill s

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:04 p.m.

I know this will sound petty, as well as off-topic, but it seems America has gotten so used to incorrectly starting sentences with the conjunction "but" that now even 'journalists" are comfortable doing so.

CLX

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:44 p.m.

It is not incorrect to start a sentence with "but."

arborani

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:30 a.m.

@SuperiorMother: Them as knows what a conjunction is for.

SuperiorMother

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:32 p.m.

Who says it's incorrect to start a sentence with "but"?

ChrisW

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8 p.m.

I remember preferring the construction on a new Community-sized school but the school board refused to put it in the ballot.

Rob Pollard

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:04 p.m.

That's a fair point. But that wouldn't have been OK with Snyder either, based on his comments. He's stating he thinks it was a bad idea to build ANY high school b/c, after all, AAPS's board should have know enrollment was going to tick down and there wasn't a need for a new high school. Pioneer and Huron should have stayed overcapacity and that's it.

A2since74

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:58 p.m.

According to Arborwiki, Pioneer and Huron Highs had 2300 and 2100 students respectively in 2000. Capacity was each 1800. Hard to believe Pioneer went up to 3000 as the article suggests. In any case, it seemed to me that building and staffing a new high school was more expensive and complicated than modifying Pioneer and Huron to accommodate 600 more pupils. My wife and I voted against the new high school believing it to be a hugely expensive solution.

Steve

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:10 a.m.

When my son started at Pioneer in 2006 there were approximately 3100 students, no guaranteed lockers for Juniors and Seniors (they were expected to store their books and materials in their car) and a lunch room so inadequate that everyone ate lunch at the same time so that Juniors and Seniors could go off campus for lunch while the rest of the students at lunch wherever they could find a seat.

Susie Q

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:26 a.m.

Pioneer might not have had quite 3000 in 2004, but when you add the kids who were there part of the day from Community, Clemente or Stone (dual-enrolled); it probably did have 3,000 students. It was VERY crowded and difficult to walk through the halls. Folks can argue for the next ten years over whether Skyline should have been built, but there is not an argument over Pioneer and Huron being overcrowded. It was and there needed to be a solution.

Rob Pollard

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:19 p.m.

Arborwiki may/may not be correct for 2000, but according to AAPS own data (which it legally has to report to the state, for funding purposes), in 2004, Pioneer had 2864 students and Huron had 2143. http://www.a2schools.org/aaps/aaps.data0405/headcount_by_grade_and_school

Ross Dunbar

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:55 p.m.

Voters overwhelmingly passed a bond for the construction of Skyline that was long overdue as anyone who was born, raised, and educated (thank you AAPS!) in Ann Arbor can attest to. There is also a reason that the families the top academic students in our community send their kids to the AAPS high schools. I would also encourage readers to compare the colleges the top AAPS graduates are going to, compared to the students that graduate from private Greenhills.

a2citizen

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.

It appears that the top scholars are going to the same schools. Where are the 95% going? Are they even going to college? That's why parents choose private schools.

jerrydog

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:52 p.m.

Skyline....yummy!!!! make mine all the way! when does it open??

zucker

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:26 a.m.

I had a five way last week too! And I gave them all Gold Stars for their performance!!

eldegee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:49 a.m.

Skyline IS good, but make mine Gold Star! Had a five-way last week! It was real gooooood!

Boo Radley

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:31 p.m.

Must not be too many Cincinnati area chili fans here, judging by your down votes ... but I got it.

a2citizen

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:49 p.m.

K-12 enrollment in Michigan schools peak at 1.7 million in 2002-2003. Since then enrollment has dropped every year and decreased about 177,000. It's only a matter of time, if not already, before that downward pressure affects a2 schools. The reason enrollment "appears" stable is because a2 is using school of choice to artificially inflate numbers. 72 school of choice openings in 2010-11 95 school of choice openings in 2011-12 170 school of choice openings in 2012-13 195 school of choice openings in 2013-14 I don't know if Snyder is correct but he appears to have math on his side.

a2citizen

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.

After my post I came across the article you linked. In the interest of accurate information I added the * because I misread the article. I shouldn't have, but from that article: "...25 of those seats will be offered at Skyline High School to boost its declining enrollment..." In the 3 years school of choice openings have increased 2.5 times. That's not a good trend. Isn't that what Snyder is saying?

Rob Pollard

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:37 p.m.

a2citzen, you are completely wrong in your statement those numbers are for 'high school only.' Not a single one of the 170 in 2012-2013 were for high school. "The Board of Education voted unanimously Wednesday in favor of the administration's recommendation to open 170 seats for Schools of Choice. Open seats will be divided among Abbot, Bryant, Carpenter, Dicken, Eberwhite, Lakewood, Logan, Northside, Pittsfield, Pattengill, Thurston, Clague, Forsythe, Scarlett and Slauson." Source: http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor-approves-schools-of-choice-weighs-future-changes/ For 2013-2014, a total of 25 of the 195 were for high schools. Source: http://www.annarbor.com/news/schools-of-choice-ann-arbor-opens-25-seats-at-skyline-high-school-to-boost-enrollment/

a2citizen

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:59 p.m.

*Numbers for school of choice are for high school only.

Alan Goldsmith

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:38 p.m.

Ann Arbor isn't his 'home town'. Battle Creek is. He lives in Superior Township. Can't we get an injuction to stop him from making this claim in the future? Again, he's spouting nonsense.

Tom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:12 a.m.

Better get your facts straight Alan. His hometown SCHOOL District is Ann Arbor as it is for many citizens of Superior Township.

Scott Reed

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:37 p.m.

Skyline has a bad location. It reminds me of a shopping mall with its massive parking lots.

hattrix

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:31 p.m.

It's great that Snyder can look down from his ivory tower and criticize the public schools when he sends his daughter to Greenhills. I'm sure the class sizes are quite small there, and if you look at the school's website, they seem to support their teachers and offer lots of academic choices for their students. Meanwhile, AAPS is cutting classes and laying off teachers. Why does he value these things for his own child while undercutting those of us who choose to support public schools or can't afford $20,000 tuition?

aamom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:37 p.m.

@Nar Unfortunately, people like me usually do not qualify as being needy enough to ever get scholarships. I could probably afford $20000 if I really needed to, but it would be irresponsible because I wouldn't be able to save a dime for college or retirement. So really, you need to be able to spend much more than the $20000 because most families have other needs to save for.

Nar

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:57 a.m.

mgoscottie - .... too lazy to check Greenhills' website and see that the school gives out nearly $1,000,000 in student grants every year.

hattrix

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:59 a.m.

Why doesn't the Governor come to one of the AAPS budget forums? As a homeowner in the district, he should have some interest in our schools and their continued success. As for his son going to Huron, that's interesting. When did he graduate? Must have been a while back? I'm sure a lot of kids would like to ask to go to Greenhills or another private school (or even Community HS!), but again, it's not an option for every family.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:43 a.m.

hattrix - He had his son graduate from Huron. His daughter was in AAPS until SHE asked to go to Greenhills. Try sitting down with Governor Snyder and talking about education, I think you will find a different person than you think you will.

mgoscottie

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:56 p.m.

He thinks people that can't afford 20,000$ tuition are lazy......

KJMClark

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:30 p.m.

What he probably should have said was that Skyline was built using population projections from SEMCOG that weren't realistic. If you knew those projections were based on a housing bubble, you might have come to a different conclusion about adding another large high school. If he meant that cities have been losing population in Michigan, he was just wrong, because there wasn't a good reason to expect the AAPS enrollment to drop. AAPS includes more than Ann Arbor City, and Ann Arbor's been one of the few bright spots in the state economy anyway. But redo those numbers and you kind of see his point. If Pioneer had 2400 (I don't buy their 1800 number), Huron 1800, and Skyline 1800, you'd have capacity for 6000 students, not counting Community, etc. But we only had 5000 then, so they were building for 20% more capacity then they needed at the time. That makes sense if you were building during a housing bubble and ignored people who said it was a once in a century bubble. All you needed was Prof. Shiller's numbers, published in the NYTimes, to see it. However, like I've said before, that's water under the bridge now, except for the higher expenses we're saddled with as a result.

JimmyD

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:25 a.m.

Well stated.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:28 p.m.

Margolis said the "depiction of declining enrollment is absolutely not true". Let's have fun with math, shall we? Pioneer was at 3,200 students and Huron was at 2,000. Soooo - 5,200. Now, all three High Schools are "sitting fairly evenly at 1,600", according to Margolis. Hmmm - carry the 1, check the math for errors - and the answer is - ta da! 4,800!!! How ever could anyone characterize going from 5,200 to 4,800 as declining enrollment?!? That feel like a surge in, oh wait, nevermind. Enrollment declined. Sorry. Sheesh.

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:55 p.m.

Bear - So you are explaining why she was wrong, but not denying that she was wrong. Correct? You are saying the reason enrollment was down was because of Pfizer. But enrollment is down. Okay. I'll grant you that hurt things for a couple of years. Total employment in Ann Arbor is now higher than it was then, so that has since been erased. But I will grant you that Pfizer leaving absolutely hurt enrollment back then if you will accept that you are explaining why, not whether what she said was correct or not. What she said was wrong.

Bear

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:51 a.m.

Do you ever really pay attention, ManA2? Or did you just simply let drift through one ear and out the other the fact that when Pfizer closed, we experienced a loss in the district of about 200 students? Pay attention and use some critical thinking skills. That's why many recommend a quality education. Snyder is bent on for profit schools and online schools and has worked relentlessly, along with the conservative legislature to create an environment that is putting our schools at financial risk. First you create the problem, then you offer the solution you wanted in the first place, as a solution for the problem YOU created. That is the republican strategy in my opinion.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:21 p.m.

Alarictoo - So you are saying there has been a decrease, just a smaller one than the one at the High School level. So the math still doesn't support her point. Okay.

alarictoo

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:37 p.m.

ManA2 - While there has been a decrease at the high school level there has been a corresponding increase in the middle and elementary schools. There has only been a 258 student drop across the entire district between 2004 and 2012. So, how's that for fun with math? It's amazing the answers you get when you use all the numbers.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:35 p.m.

True aaMom. She didn't include them in her response, though I'd assume they have been relatively flat. Community is always full. The others are relatively small. Your point is a good one, however.

aamom

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:28 p.m.

Some more fun with the math would be including the enrollment of the 3 high schools you left out of the equation.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:25 p.m.

Robert & Pie - that's not what she said. She said a depiction of declining enrollment was "absolutely not true"! Your points may all be well taken. My point is that her own facts contradicted her own passionate rebutal. I'm not smug. I'm correct.

piemontese

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:15 p.m.

You're really smug. Down 10% from 2004 to 2008, but up 5.7% from 2008-2012. Building in an allowance for an increase in enrollment of up to 20% over the next generation doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

Robert E.

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:05 p.m.

Get real...she's using approximate numbers...do you really think a diff of 400 makes that big of a difference? Would you prefer that Pioneer and Huron continue to be so over crowded the kids have to use sub par portable classrooms? If you're so smart what would be a better solution? Be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem...

Brad

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:03 p.m.

You people voting down basic arithmetic again? The neat thing about math - it doesn't care.

TheInfamousOne

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:27 p.m.

I think Snyder really spoke too soon before gathering all the information. It's funny how Snyder starts the blame game when the entire state knows he does not care or like Public education. Snyder only cares about Charter schools or Profit Schools. I think Ann Arbor voters will be a thorn in his side this time around in the upcoming election.

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:06 a.m.

The information is readily available to anyone who lives here. Not everyone who you disagree with is uninformed.

jcj

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:19 p.m.

I think Ann Arbor voters will be a thorn in his side this time around in the upcoming election. Snyder did not win Ann Arbor in the last election.

Nicholas Urfe

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:25 p.m.

"First of all, Skyline was a voter-approved decision in the district he (Snyder) lives in," Way to blame the voters for supporting the district's terrible planning and terrible financial controls. Building something new and shiny is always way more fun than reviewing the books and cutting fat. Spend, Spend, Spend.

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:41 p.m.

Steve - How about the Director of Communications? I'm sure she is a great lady, but how is the education of the children enhanced by having a Director of Communications? Then there are all the ex-principals wandering the halls. If you check our administrative overhead vs. the standards in education, we are definitely heavy.

Steve

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:56 a.m.

ManA2-You are claiming there is fat that needs to be cut at Balas. Could you be specific about the cuts? What postions there have little to no value to the school system and thus warrant being cut? So many people are quick to say to cut administration but very short on specifics. Also, as an Ann Arbor resident, you should remember that the administration did not want to go with a new school, but instead opted to push for an expansion of Pioneer and Huron to address the over crowding issues at the two schools. That bond was rejected by the voters because they felt a new school was the best solution to the overcrowding problem.

ManA2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2 a.m.

Robert - I didn't say it would solve the problem. You said there was no fat to cut and I believe there is. Reread my comment. Pretty straight forward. As is the incorrect comment by Ms. Margolis about how enrollment hasn't gone down. Her own numbers show it has gone down. There was overcrowding at Pioneer and Huron. The decision was made to build a new high school just as the numbers started to turn down, which was consistent with the projections that AAPS had at the time.

Matt Cooper

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:54 p.m.

Plain and simple, it was 'voter-approved'. If the voter is not civic minded enough to educate himself about what he's voting on, how can he logically turn around and claim/imply that he was duped, which is what you seem to be trying to do Nicholas.

Robert E.

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:52 p.m.

OK ManA2...how would "cutting the fat" have solved the overcrowding problem? Expanding Pioneer and Huron made no sense...high schools are not supposed to have that many students...it thins out the quality of the education and overwhelms the staff...I appreciate the fact that you do not support more cuts as we are laying off teachers and can't even afford to provide busing for all who need it...if our govt would simply prioritize public education we would be able to provide our kids with the quality public education they deserve...

clownfish

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:32 p.m.

How much $ would need to be cut from administrative costs to bring down the enrollment of 3000 students at Pioneer?

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.

Robert - there is no fat to cut? Have you ever been to Balas? I'm not arguing for cuts. If it produces better outcomes and you can prove it to me, I'd happily support increases in funding. But there is not fat to cut? Really?

Robert E.

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8 p.m.

You guys are both way out of touch...there's no fat to cut...we approved a new high school because Pioneer and Huron were dangerously overcrowded...its disturbing that you find it soooo easy to endorse cuts that have a direct and negative impact on the quality of our children's education...get your priorities straight!

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:31 p.m.

Well said! There was a well funded campaign, directed by the Trustees and the Administration to get this passed. And now the answer is "well, they are the ones who wanted it"!! Give me a break. Frankly, from everything I hear, the program at Skyline is terrific. And the building is certainly amazing. And I know operating expenses come from a different pot than capital expenditures, but there was a far better solution.

Rob Pollard

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:23 p.m.

For a person who purports to be a 'nerd' and good with numbers, Snyder fails basic math. Skyline wasn't built based on increased population projections, but to deal with the fact Huron and especially Pioneer were overstuffed at the time and still would be in the future without a new high school. Does he think 3200 kids in a school built for just over half that is a good thing? Because that's where Pioneer still would be if there wasn't another school. I was in Pioneer when it had 3000 kids. It was scary, the halls were so packed. God forbid there was a real emergency, I don't know how everyone would have evacuated in time safely. And beyond that, a high school with 3000+ kids is not remotely the best academic or social situation - does Gov Snyder think that it's appealing to parents or kids? It certainly isn't to him - he sends his kids to a school with an enrollment of 550. You can argue many things about Skyline - its location, its size, its trimester/semester plan, the fact Community High wasn't rolled into it - but that's not what he brings up, as that would take some actual knowledge of local school issues. A new high school in A2 was definitely needed, and voters agreed with that.

Soothslayer

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 10:17 p.m.

>A new high school in AT was definitely needed Really? Take a look at the budget again. No.

Rob Pollard

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:31 p.m.

bellboz, I'm not sure where you get your figures. It is simply not true "Many schools have much larger" than 2400 kids. Here's an actual list from the MHSAA (which uses enrollment for sports classification - Class A, Class B, etc). There are 12 schools across the entire state that are at 2400 or above, with the max being 2750. Do people think AAPS would somehow be attractive to its large pop. of middle/upper middle class parents by keeping Pioneer huge and thus having easily the biggest high school in the entire state (in a building built for barely more than half that)? If that's such a good idea, why isn't any other district in the state doing it? Again, perhaps a third, 1,000+ comprehensive school shouldn't have been built and instead ~2 smaller, Community sized schools should have been built. Or Skyline could been put in a diff location, etc. But a new high school was necessary. That's what Snyder gets wrong. http://www.mhsaa.com/portals/0/documents/AD%20Forms/1213enroll.pdf

belboz

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:11 p.m.

750 more students at Skyline now would bring it to 2400. That is a perfectly fine size. Many schools have much larger. It was not needed, it was wanted. I'd rather have a fully funded educational system with a little overcrowding than a $18 million deficit that is forcing massive service cuts. It's about choices, which I think is the point. I also believe we chose poorly.

Robert E.

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:56 p.m.

Well said Rob...this is the correct answer...any other conclusion is pure nonsense...Pioneer was over crowded way way beyond what it should have been...setting up portables is a joke...the cuts in education spending are the problem...we don't put anywhere near enough priority on the funding of our children's education period...conservatives in Lansing are primarily to blame...

lou81

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:18 p.m.

I am 90% against Governor Snyder but I will have to agree with him on this topic. And if you remember we paid a principal of the school for two years prior to its opening.

Barb

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:36 p.m.

Your point isn't lost but that doesn't mean the school wasn't warranted.

a2grateful

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:15 p.m.

"Pioneer was the largest high school in the state with 3,200 students in a building designed for 1,800." Many of those attending Pioneer during that time loved it. It was crowded, for sure. We all survived. 4,764 HS students 2012. 5006 HS students 2004. 4.8% fewer HS students might not seem to make a difference. However, the overheads of construction, operating costs, programming, and staffing for the new HS are definitely burdensome. Ann Arbor actually has six HS operations, counting Huron, Pioneer, Skyline, Community, Clemente, and Tech Center. We need to find better solutions for our failed systems, and stop duplicating our resources.

leaguebus

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:46 a.m.

I had a son at Pioneer when it was the largest HS in the state and it was overcrowded. The blame for schools financial problems can be laid on no other doorstep but Snyder. He cut taxes by $2B in a state that because of prior tax cuts, was financially hurting. In 2007 dollars, education is underfunded by $1.4B this year. If that money was available, how many districts would be facing financial problems? Certainly ones that have lost their tax bases like Detroit, but probably not Ann Arbor.

NoPC

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:58 p.m.

I have a student at Huron who plays sports. When I was in High School, sports were free. Now, I can't believe how much I have to pay to have an athlete in the house. We did not need Skyline and all the expenses it brought. Yes, it was crowded before Skyline, but my oldest son still got a good education there. Now, all that money to support Skyline (and the benefits of all the retired teachers and administrators) is really hurting the rest of us who have to pay out of pocket to support them. Maybe they should have put a Special Tax Assessment on all Ann Arborites who choose to move forward with Skyline.

lorayn54

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:38 p.m.

not everyone loved it. some kids got lost in the shuffle. there were lots of problems with the over crowding in both of the comprehensive high schools I doubt that Snyder has set foot in either of them. Have you ever been to Greenhills school? I have and it is nothing like any of our six high schools. If Snyder thinks that our large public schools were good as they were, why send his kids to private school?

ChelseaBob

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:15 p.m.

I seem to remember projections of population increases when Skyline was built. If that's correct, then the planners were off base. If not correct, if they simply expected the population to remain level, then why the huge deficits? Did they plan for huge deficits? If not, what part of their plan fell short?

glacialerratic

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:15 p.m.

AMOC has hit the nail on the head. Skyline was the product of the speculative real estate bubble and unrealistic expectations of continued population growth. And many parents were eager for their kids to have a shot at taking part in a varsity sport on new teams at Skyline.

AMOC

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:43 p.m.

When the school district put the bond issue for the new high school on the ballot (plus some renovations for every building in the system to build more support!) the projections said that the peak student age population would occur in 2007, one year after the vote and the same year Skyline was originally slated to start construction. A few months after voter approval of the bond, Pfizer closed their local operations, which caused an immediate hit to the school district of close to 200 students. AAPS has been relatively stable since then, because fewer and fewer families could afford the religious and private schools in the are during the recession, and relatively few AAPS parents have preferred the limited number if high school charter schools . So the district has been getting some of those students who were not originally projected to attend AAPS. When the school district proposed Skyline, they claimed that it would take only about 15 additional staff members to run the new school; the rest were to come as transfers from the other high schools. It's turned out to be closer to 40 more staff members, in large measure due to the special positions as Chair / Head of Small Learning Community and each Magnet program coming with both a "points" bonus in pay and a reduced teaching load. That's in addition to the Department Chair positions at Skyline as well as the other 2 big high schools. The community needed more school highclassrooms and lab space. Maybe an additional couple of computer labs. We absolutely did NOT need the athletic palace (2 gyms, an indoor and outdoor running track, natatorium, field house, etc.) that Skyline became, and the "facilities race" this triggered among the athletic departments of the other high schools.

KJMClark

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:37 p.m.

Neither SEMCOG nor the AAPS were counting on all of the construction being a part of a nationwide housing bubble. After all, house prices always go up! Some of us said at the time that it was a housing bubble, don't count on those numbers. There were plenty of reputable economists pointing out that it was a bubble. There were just more, and louder ones, talking their book. And the projections assumed more of the same construction boom. Heck, if the AAPS had long-range budget projections, they probably also projected booming revenues forever. Most organizations did, ignoring the sober people in the room.

Hunterjim

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:13 p.m.

I have to agree with the Governor on this. Second point would be the design of the building once approved. Practicality vs fancy architecture. To me it's more important to provide the modern tech to give the best learning experience, and save on the fancy stuff. Pioneer was originally built to expand, a good design, Huron was not. Skyline is beautiful more so than practical. Just my opinion.

Bridget

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 12:13 p.m.

So we should instead have low-cost cookie-cutter charter schools for-profit?

TryingToBeObjective

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 4:20 a.m.

The power goes out at Skyline- A LOT. So much for new. How many extra days off or shortened days does a school get?

Gardener1

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:02 a.m.

Have you been in Skyline? It is actually very utilitarian but new.

Ann English

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:02 p.m.

To his dying day, Ted Heusel said that a third high school wasn't necessary. Agree, any building in the shape of a barbell (such as Huron High) is not built to expand.

Veracity

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:12 p.m.

Governor Snyder has only disdain for public education and would replace the entire system with charter schools if he could. Furthermore, Governor Snyder is at his best when he is destroying. Most certainly he knew that reducing state funding for schools would create dire circumstances for many school districts. He created the Emergency Financial Manager so that he can impose his own conservative right wing approach to education. In accordance with his beliefs teacher contracts will be rewritten providing less salary and benefits and forcing teachers to adhere to unproven performance guidelines. If he cannot eliminate public education by a single pen-stroke then he will strangle the system financially, functionally and by depressing moral. The Governor's comments are perfectly within character and expected and inaccurate and uncalled for.

Bridget

Sun, Jun 9, 2013 : 11:40 a.m.

By February of 2011, shortly after his inauguration, Snyder was training 200 potential emergency managers. Don't blame this on Granholm. The 4th law passed by the newly all-Republican legislature in 2011 was the Emergency Manager law, which they reinstated in 2012 after the voters repealed it. Why 200? Because Snyder and his cohort have had their eye on lucrative districts such as Ann Arbor from the beginning. http://www.salon.com/2011/09/12/reformmoney/

Veracity

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 3:55 a.m.

Gentlemen and Ladies - I do appreciate the gentleness in your criticisms, some of which I admit are deserved. Usual Suspect - I have no hatred but I do have disdain for the actions our governor has taken against the middle class and his support and generosity for those running businesses and others with wealth. Should I be overjoyed at the reduced state funding of municipalities and schools so he could pay for the $1.8 billion in business tax reductions? Should I congratulate the governor for introducing the first taxation of pensions? Should I applaud the governor's attacks on women's rights? And, most importantly, I would like to congratulate Mr. Snyder for finding jobs for the 400,000 remaining unemployed Michigan citizens, the residual from the recent automobile recession. Chris W, jcj and ManA2 - You are all correct: Rick Snyder did not invent the Emergency Financial Manager (EM) in Michigan but he has certainly enhanced its powers and broadened its utility. Since being overhauled by Governor Snyder the EM can now fire all properly elected municipal officials, cancel contracts, establish new contracts without arbitration, and sell municipal properties without out taking bids. Governor Snyder's newly designed EM was so beloved by the citizens of Michigan that they voted to reject it. Despite a conscience that I am sure bothered him, Rick Snyder reintroduced the same EM bill which passed through the Republican legislature as expected and could not be challenged in court like his first EM law because of an attached financing amendment. Yes, Michigan citizenry have a lot to be grateful for with our governor. DonBee - Rick Snyder is very personable and possibly has a magnetic personality which I am sure helped him to get elected. However, it does not matter how congenial he is nor that his children went to public school. What matters are his actions in office like the examples I just mentioned.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:33 a.m.

Veracity - Have you ever talked to him face to face? Sat at a school event and had a conversation? His son was heavily involved at Huron, and his daughter was in AAPS until all her friends convinced her she needed to be at Greenhills, the governor was perfectly happy with keeping her in public schools until she asked.

eagleman

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:02 a.m.

Our educational system was failing long before Snyder got into office. Your cynical abuse of the facts is nauseating.

Matt Cooper

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:39 p.m.

Perhaps others here need to take their own suggestion and follow their own advice about checking facts. Robert Bobb was appointed EFM for the Detroit PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Snyder has worked tirelessly to expand the EFM powers to include entire cities (and all departments within them) and multiple school districts simultaneously.

NoPC

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:52 p.m.

Let me guess.... Veracity carries a Union Card.

ManA2

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.

Veracity - Conformity to the facts. Snyder didn't create the EFM. And Granholm put an EFM in charge of DPS. I suggest mendacious!

jcj

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:12 p.m.

Veracity Here are the facts! But don't let them deter you from making false claims! Michigan has had an emergency financial manager law on the books since 1988 The original law was signed by Democrat governor James Blanchard In March 2009, Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm appointed Robert Bobb as emergency financial manager for the Detroit Public Schools

ChrisW

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:46 p.m.

Granholm appointed an Emergency Financial Manager for Detroit Public Schools, so unless Snyder has a time machine he didn't create the law.

Barb

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:35 p.m.

US, you misspelled "reality".

Usual Suspect

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:25 p.m.

Why so much hate?

Wystan Stevens

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:10 p.m.

Your photo caption is incorrect. Rick Snyder is not an Ann Arbor native.

Robert Hughes

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:27 p.m.

The first sentence says that Ann Arbor is his "hometown"; which it isn't. He grew up in Battle Creek.

Kyle Mattson

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:57 p.m.

Hi Mary- Our system takes a few minutes to carry over updates we make.

Mary

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:18 p.m.

At 4:18 p.m., the caption is still describing him as an Ann Arbor native.

Cole Bertsos

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.

Thanks for catching that — the error has been fixed.

Cossur

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:10 p.m.

I've yet to hear a word from Snyder's mouth that wasn't self-serving. He has zero concern for citizens as long as his corporate buddies are kept happy.

johnnya2

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:18 p.m.

"Corporate buddies create jobs"? In what alternate universe do you live in? DEMAND creates jobs PERIOD> Snyder lowered their taxes, yet jobs are not flooding to Michigan. Corporate profits are at record highs, yet I do not see massive jobs being created. Tax cuts certainly do not create jobs, because we had the Bush era tax cuts that left us with the smallest employment growth off ANY president in the last 50 years. Those are FACTS. In fact, if it were not for PUBLIC sector jobs, Bush would have even worse numbers. Of course the fact that private sector jobs have GROWN substantially since Obama policies have been implemented, while public sector jobs have declined shows the right has NO CLUE what they are talking about

hawkhulk

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 5:44 a.m.

I trust nothing from this governor's mouth, nor did care for anything his buddy John Engler said when holding the same office. These two men and the lawmakers who rubber stamped their proposals the past two decades has made Michigan a neanderthal state, and their approach to educational funding and structure is obnoxious to say the least.

leaguebus

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 2:32 a.m.

His corporate buddies only create jobs when there is demand and when he raises taxes on the masses of taxpayers, we can't use that money to buy anything, and there is less demand. The only job creators in the state are auto related and the Democrats are responsible for those jobs.

garrisondyer

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:52 a.m.

@Unusual Suspect .... because everyone belongs in a box. Or, to put it into Star Wars jargon you may or may not get, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Come on.... Join those of us who are bent on a collaborative solution, not degenerative finger-pointing.

Usual Suspect

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:56 a.m.

The left isn't interested in private sector jobs. To them, those are evil. The only jobs they like are public sector, and the only people they like are those who create more public sector jobs.

Tom

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:08 a.m.

Instead of making accusations, where is your evidence? His "Corporate Buddies" are the ones that create jobs unless of course you subscribe to the theory that government should be the sole employer.

alarictoo

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 6:57 p.m.

I would like to see Governor Snyder define what he means by "negative demographic trends." What other demographics than student enrollment might he be referring to? Because Danielle's numbers above show less than a 2% drop in student enrollment over the last 8 years. Governor?

Basic Bob

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 12:02 a.m.

Negative demographic trend... simply means there are less students. Even 2% less is a negative trend. With per-pupil funding flat because of the negative employment trend, this leads to a negative trend in state funding for education. The district predicted an increase in the number of students, exponential increases in wealth, and double-digit gains in state funding, none of which seem likely to happen any time soon.

B2Pilot

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:15 p.m.

alarcto- poor financial planning the superintendent quit when it became clear the district couldn't afford the high school when it was being built. It was more of a reaction to Dexter Brighton, Milan and all surrounding communities building new schools We are now laying off how many teachers?

sellers

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:17 p.m.

However the population of the AAPS region increased. The factor not mentioned was that more and more couples have less than 2 children so the demographics (nationally) show a downward trend of school aged persons.

alarictoo

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:04 p.m.

For comparison, the overall population of Michigan dropped by approximately 2.3% in the same time period.

Usual Suspect

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 6:45 p.m.

There are many here who feel the same way, but now they'll change their minds just because Governor Snyder said it.

Great Lakes Lady

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 6:09 p.m.

You're forgetting that AAPS paid out millions to settle a lawsuit brought by substitute teachers. AAPS was advised by attorneys NOT to use the form that they had substitutes sign.....they continued anyway.....ended up paying out millions. Poor decision making and mismanagement of funds over and over.....

SonnyDog09

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 11:02 a.m.

Snyder Derangement Syndrome. Not only will they change their minds, but they will vehemently deny that they *ever* thought differently.

DonBee

Sat, Jun 8, 2013 : 1:30 a.m.

Every forum I attended on Skyline the people in the meeting voted for a 1200 student magnet school, not a comprehensive high school. The school employees running the tables, always presented it as a vote for a comprehensive high school. The online website was edited a number of times to remove comments about a magnet school instead of a comprehensive school. The promise was that the district would run the building with only 21 total new employees - all the others would transfer, that was lunch supervisors, teachers, administrators, custodians, coaches, etc. I have PDFs of many of the versions of the websites, and other comments from that time period. We know Skyline has way more than 21 new employees. We know they did not open it as promised all at once to take the largest high school classes out of the other high schools, but opened it over a 4 year period so that the sports teams would not be upset. If they had opened it as a magnet then the district could have done a "big bang" opening, instead of the slow roll. Governor Snyder was in a number of the meetings at the time this went on, he was not disengaged, and asked some pretty good questions.

Basic Bob

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 11:58 p.m.

This school district has no credibility left. They have been making stuff up for as long as I have been here. Why do we need SIX high schools??????

glacialerratic

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 10:55 p.m.

Whoa--speak for yourself. We had kids at Pioneer when the plan for a third high school surfaced and it was clear that advocates of the plan were misrepresenting data on demographic trends. Margolis continues to do so to this day--Pioneer's official enrollment was well below 3,200.

Barb

Fri, Jun 7, 2013 : 7:33 p.m.

If you have a high school aged kid in AAPS, you know there was no question a 3 HS was needed. None. He's completely out of touch.

Governor questions Ann Arbor's decision to build Skyline; district says Snyder's claims are inaccurate

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