ACLU sends letter to county prosecutor about players charged in Pioneer football brawl
Previous coverage:
- Football brawl: Ann Arbor schools will ask prosecutor to drop charges against 3 teens
- Football brawl fallout: Some allege prejudice in charging of students
- Group supporting high-schoolers charged in football brawl organizes public marches downtown
- Video footage from Huron-Pioneer football brawl released by Ann Arbor police
The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan sent a letter to Washtenaw County Prosecutor Brian Mackie Tuesday asking him to consider "better alternatives" to charging the three black students in the Pioneer-Huron football brawl.
The same day protestors rally in front of the courthouse for the three students charged in the October Huron-Pioneer football brawl, the ACLU of Michigan issued a letter also coming to the students' defense.
John Counts | AnnArbor.com
Fancher said in an interview with AnnArbor.com that the organization is not asking for any specific outcome, such as dropping the charges against the youth.
"Our position is … if there are better alternatives, we would strongly encourage the prosecutor to consider those as well," Fancher said. "If he would see it to dismiss the charges, we would applaud that."
He said more than anything, the ACLU is asking Mackie not to handle this case routinely, as he would handle cases for chronic offenders or someone more accustom to being in the court system.
The letter states:
"The ACLU of Michigan does not typically comment on the sufficiency of evidence in pending criminal cases, and we decline to do so now with respect to charges that your office is pursuing… Nevertheless, your decision to pursue charges solely against three African American students did not occur in a historical and social vacuum, and we are compelled to discuss with you the broader implications and consequences of prosecuting only these three out of scores of alleged participants in what many have characterized as a 'brawl.'"
Fancher wrote the ACLU initiates this discussion fully aware that when racial issues are raised, people often accuse others of "playing the race card." However, he said in his letter, race remains a central factor of "alarming statistics," such as the school to prison pipeline, which refers to the correlation between the disproportionate number of black students suspended and expelled from school and the students' eventual involvement in the criminal justice system.
The letter states:
"The pending cases against the three students appear against the backdrop of these stark racial disparities in the schools and the criminal justice system. It is in that context that communities of color consider the institutional dynamics that frequently penalize their youth. The perceptions of unfairness are understandable. Two white coaches trigger chaos on a football field, and dozens of players throw numerous punches, but only three black students end up facing criminal charges. Week in, week out, hockey players pummel each other to the delight of spectators, but meanwhile, three black students end up facing criminal charges for an incident on a football field. In fact, it is not unfair to suggest that it is practically an American tradition not to prosecute participants in sports fights. Yet, in Ann Arbor, three black students end up facing criminal charges. You may have reasons for your decisions that have nothing to do with race or racial bias. However, there is an opportunity here to address the long-held community concerns about the disparate punishment of black youth in this county at a time when area residents are publicly demonstrating their concern about the prosecution of these three young men."
The ACLU of Michigan asks that Mackie meet with them to discuss non-punitive consequences, such as restorative justice practices that may resolve the issue for all of those involved, including the victims, without "forever impacting the lives of these young men," Communications Director Rana Elmir said in an email.
Restorative justice brings everyone impacted by a crime or an action together in a meeting. Fancher told AnnArbor.com, sometimes incidents are the result of a breakdown in the relationship between the offender and the victim. The parties communicate to each other that something has happened and talk about the ways it impacted them.
"It unfolds in a number of different ways, but often what happens is for the first time, the offenders can really appreciate the extent of what they've done," Fancher said, adding: "The victim gets to see that this person they built up in their mind as a horrible monster may have made a bad decision or mistake. … And they can talk creatively about how to make things right."
Fancher said in the case of the Ann Arbor Huron-Pioneer football brawl, these are students who, moments before the fight broke out, were having fun and engaging in a good-natured competition.
"It's not a case where you have people committing a premeditated crime or people hell-bent on creating problems for other people, but rather people who got caught up in a moment," he said.
The ACLU's letter comes a week after the Ann Arbor school board took similar action and passed a resolution also addressed to Mackie. The Board of Education also asked the prosecutor to look at other ways of addressing the students' behaviors, rather than through criminal charges.
At least two community groups have formed in support of the students, two of whom are juveniles and Bashir Garain, 18, who was charged as an adult. One group has organized fundraisers to pay for attorney fees, while the other group is marching and rallying in front of the courthouse this week as the students appear for proceedings.
Danielle Arndt covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. Follow her on Twitter @DanielleArndt or email her at daniellearndt@annarbor.com.
Comments
Poorman
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 8:03 p.m.
The decision appeared anti-crutch hit and anti-cleat kick. These were the unique characteristics the punished had in common. Players (including African American) who restrained themselves from hitting people with crutches and from kicking helpless kids in the head were not prosecuted.
napoleon
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 3:37 p.m.
MLIVE reports on 10/13/12, Gildersleeve said "a player was struck in the face by a crutch and sent to the hospital for stitches". So what does this have to do with race? I am so sick of these organizations unjustly pulling the race card! Someone had to go to the hospital after being assaulted with a crutch! What the heck does that have to do to what color he is? NOTHING!!
concerned
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 6:21 p.m.
Wrong! Nobody went to the hospital because they were hit with a crutch. If you want to see a race card being played read genetracy's comment above.
genetracy
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:37 p.m.
The Save our Babies crowd is sure pulling out all the stops. The ACLU is now involved. What next? The New Black Panther Party?
Nicholas Urfe
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:59 p.m.
Were there any "not of color" students who were observed allegedly doing similar crimes and not charged? Any? Any other alleged crutch wielders out there?
Greg
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 10:49 a.m.
Someone at the ACLU using their name to try to intimidate while claiming they want no specific outcome is pretty unethical.
snapshot
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 3:03 a.m.
I am trusting the justice system will perform as expected, according to the evidence, with respect for the constitutional rights of the accused, the severity of the crime(s), and intent. I would expect this will occur without regard for public opinion, resolutions passed, letters submitted, or demonstrations whether those be favorable or unfavorable to the accused. Otherwise we would be condoning mob justice, right or wrong, and our society is one governed by law, not men, as a wise man once said. Let's hope justice is served with equity, as it should be. That Ann Arbor School employees and the board would participate and intervene with the intent to influence the justice system should be specifically prevented from here forward. It's just not right and smacks of intimidation by government employees. This resolution, its discussion, employee participation should be invesstigated for any legal violation because it smacks of "campaigning" on company time.
towncryer
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:04 p.m.
I agree, and I wish someone with the proper legal background would go forward with an investigation on behalf of the Harris family.
DannnyA
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:50 a.m.
Equating what happens DURING a hockey between players to AFTER a football game between non-players is so ridiculous it's insulting. The ACLU should go to Skokie, IL and pretend like anybody cares about what they think anymore. The ACLU does far more harm than good! Get out of our town!
Max
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:52 a.m.
It is not your town, thank God!
concerned
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:42 a.m.
On this comment site the one with the most thumbs down should take it as a compliment.
Peter
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:28 a.m.
You're right, but help me out, up or down?
Usual Suspect
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:38 a.m.
I think we have a new all-time record for the number of thumbs down received by a single commenter on a single article.
Max
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:37 a.m.
I would recommend to consult the web site www.aclu.org and to read up on the organization many like to ridicule. It would benefit many commentators to have some information before they pass summary judgment on the ACLU.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:43 a.m.
Today's ACLU bears no resemblance to the organization founded in 1920, or to its mission statement.
Angry Moderate
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:14 a.m.
Somebody doesn't know what summary judgment means.
hoopsfan
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:10 a.m.
Is anyone here really surprised by the ACLU? I bet if the kids kicking and stomping on the child were white, this same group would be calling for the district to "protect" the "victim" and that the rights of bi-racial kids are being violated. How can the ACLU find so much time for a case like this when they are so busy defending rapists and violent criminals.
Angry Moderate
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:14 a.m.
If the perpetrator were white, the ACLU would be demanding hate crime charges.
mun
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:43 p.m.
"Our position is … if there are better alternatives, we would strongly encourage the prosecutor to consider those as well," Here's an alternative to consider: Don't assault people.
mun
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:34 p.m.
"...Week in, week out, hockey players pummel each other to the delight of spectators, but meanwhile, three black students end up facing criminal charges for an incident on a football field." Pardon my ignorance, but I thought fighting is illegal in youth hockey. Only in the juniors and NHL is fighting legal.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:29 p.m.
"..Week in, week out, hockey players pummel each other" Name three incidents that sent a kid to the hospital. OK, name one then.
towncryer
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:02 p.m.
It seems like the Harris's are just getting more and more ammunition for some type of future lawsuit.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:49 a.m.
It's sad. Because the payout for any lawsuit will come from all of us. If only those responsible for this injustice would have to fork over the money, I'd be all for the Harris' retaining a civil lawyer.
YpsiGreen
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:48 p.m.
" "It's not a case where you have people committing a premeditated crime or people hell-bent on creating problems for other people, but rather people who got caught up in a moment," he said." So instead of civil self-control, we can rationalize away someone's actions in getting "caught up in the moment?" Seriously, what the heck is wrong with society's thinking if you don't have to take ownership of your actions? Talk about a toddler state (as opposed to a nanny state.) Geesh.
local
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:46 p.m.
It is always easier to push for youths getting off when it isn't your kid laying on the ground getting beaten by a crutch or kicked in the face by a cleat. ACLU has no place here, just like the BOE had no place making a resolution at the last board meeting.
Stewart G. Griffin
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:21 p.m.
Excuse me, but I read the ACLU letter and I take offense to the part the reads..."Two white coaches trigger chaos on a football field" I'm not offended by the fact that they are referring to the coaches as "white". I'm offended by the fact that they are implying Huron had a coach to begin with....my god, just look at their record over the past several seasons.....I strongly feel they are using the term "coach" a little too loosely in Huron's case.
squidlover
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:59 p.m.
Sounds like a letter for the circular file to me.
C. Montgomery Burns
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:55 p.m.
Where's my ACLU letter? My civil liberties are being infringed upon by having to listen to this Huron/Pioneer football brawl drama for the past five friggin' months! Please god make it stop!!!!
Morty Seinfeld
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:45 p.m.
I think the whole point of the matter on why these three students were charged while no one else was, is this.....one player consciously chose to pick up a crutch and swing it with the intent of hitting somebody; the other two consciously chose to use there football cleats and kick an opposing player in the head as he lay on the ground with the intent to do bodily harm to the opposing player. They escalated the fight by chosing to basically use weapons, where everyone else was pushing and shoving. If it would have remained a simple skirmish of pushing and shoving, it all would have been passed off as boys being boys. The moment these three individuals decided to use objects that could be considered dangerous weapons, the whole thing changed. From the length of time it took, I'm sure the police and prosecutor performed a thorough investigation and did their due dilegence before deciding to prosecute.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:40 p.m.
It's amazing how people can get up here and say "the law is the law" and "these kid need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law". But the moment you start talking about prosecuting every incident that occurs at aaps, then all of a sudden "the law is the law" sentiment gets thrown out the window, and is replaced the "it's just a simple assualt" sentiment. It's the definition of hypocrite.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:28 p.m.
Atticus F., maybe you're seeing or reading something I'm not but "it's just a simple assault" and "this is racial" are the mantras of the BOE and supporters, not the general census of the posts, who don't consider it a racial matter either for that matter. Please share what you know about violent incidents in the Ann Arbor schools! Give specific examples, I'll stand by you in this! We cannot tolerate any violence in schools!
antikvetch
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:28 p.m.
Shhhh, Angry Moderate, don't interfere with the nice man's tirade.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:27 p.m.
"But the moment you start talking about prosecuting every incident that occurs at aaps, then all of a sudden "the law is the law" sentiment gets thrown out the window" Looks like the definition of hyperbole.
Angry Moderate
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:02 p.m.
Why don't you post a link to these numerous occasions where A2 commenters argued that there shouldn't be charges for a white student beating someone with a weapon? You keep saying it over and over again with zero examples.
Jay Thomas
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:20 p.m.
If someone kicked me in the face wearing cleats I would want justice whatever the stupid ACLU says (or irrelevant statistics they cite). They are bullies and Ann Arbor isn't some racist southern town. Go away.
LindaJ
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 11:36 p.m.
Just a side point, Jay Thomas: Racism is not confined to towns located in the South. There's plenty "up North." That said, I think the BOE and ACLU are playing the race card inappropriately and in a potentially destructive manner in the case of the football brawl.
treetowncartel
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:14 p.m.
BTW, is anyone fact checking What Mr. Facncher wrote/said? "Two white coaches trigger chaos on a football field, and dozens of players throw numerous punches, but only three black students end up facing criminal charges." I thought only one of the three coaches in the initial altercation was white.
treetowncartel
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:10 p.m.
Is anyone willing to explain why the vicitim family doesn't deserve to have the suspect who allegedly committed a felonious assault against him prosecuted? Are we to do away with victim rights?
John of Saline
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:38 p.m.
The alternative is, don't assault people. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept.
Usual Suspect
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:32 a.m.
"Atticus....there is a big difference between simple assault and felonious assault.Why do you seem to ignore that key part ?" I don't think he's ignoring it. I think he really doesn't know anything about it.
mun
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:47 p.m.
"He said more than anything, the ACLU is asking Mackie not to handle this case routinely, as he would handle cases for chronic offenders or someone more accustom to being in the court system." So who's cherry picking?
Angry Moderate
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:49 p.m.
Atticus, you realize that YOU are the one calling for cherry-picked prosecution based on skin color, right?
Michigan Reader
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:22 p.m.
@Atticus F.--The prosecutor's office has a limited budget, limited staff. They can't prosecute every school fight in Washtenaw County, it's just not feasible. So they have to prioritize, taking on the more egregious offenses, also there's good evidence in this case. (The video.)
DonBee
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:16 p.m.
Atticus - To my knowledge, any fight in school that uses a weapon and someone is taken to the hospital ends up with the police involved. Regardless of it is in First Grade or in the High School.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:42 p.m.
Atticus I am sure that you would be for prosecution of marijuana use in Ann Arbor.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
TDW, a crime is a crime. It is not acceptable to cherry pick which crimes we prosecute. When police and prosecutors cherry pick which crimes they prosecute it calls into question the integrity of the system. And it leaves questions of why certain kids are being prosecuted for breaking the law while certain other kids are not being prosecuted for violating the law.
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:27 p.m.
Atticus....there is a big difference between simple assault and felonious assault.Why do you seem to ignore that key part ?
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:14 p.m.
So, if that is your sentiment, do you believe that every fight that occurs at school should involve the police, prosecuter, and court system? If your kid was involved in a fight at school, would you approve of them being charged with assualt? Or is it just 'other peoples kids' that should be charged when there is a physical altercation?
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:08 p.m.
It's sad to see all of these people turning a blind eye to the injustices within our society. And it's borderline shameful to hear so many people spewing the same 'one sided' talking points that Glen Beck spews.
Usual Suspect
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:31 a.m.
Atticus, learn the difference between civil and criminal. In most cases in school fights it is the former - some punches, shoving, wrestling, etc. These are not the domain of the prosecutor. So yeah, those aren't among the cases that are criminally prosecuted. If there is legal action in those cases, it is one citizen bringing charges against the other. and unless you're frequently reading over the docket down at the courthouse, you're not going to know about them. However, when weapons are used, such as a crutch or a football cleat, that rises to the level of criminal activity, and the prosecutor gets involved. You have this dream that bunches of criminal assaults are being ignored by the prosecutor. You're either peeing in the wind or you have information that this is the case. Which is it? If it's the latter, let's hear that information.
towncryer
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:56 p.m.
how do you know what is prosecuted or not? not every school fight makes aa.com. let's find out if the girl who got beat up at slauson is pressing charges, after all the police were involved.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:40 p.m.
Mr. Harris went to the hospital Atticus F. If other assaults resulted in a person going to the hospital or a weapon was used, then yes, there should be charges. You sound like you know something about what's happening in Ann Arbor schools. Please share this because we cannot tolerate violence in schools!
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:33 p.m.
Why is it OK for Atticus to accuse others of spewing one sided talking points. But when we turn the tables it gets deleted? THAT is shameful!
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:21 p.m.
OK I don't listen to Glenn Beck. What I am saying is that by the nature of the assault by whatever race to whatever race, whatever race who committed the assault should face the consequences. So if a white or Asian or black student did this, they should face the consequences.To clarify your position, if the nature of the assault was committed by a particular race, then there should be no consequences because of the injustices in society. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am trying to understand your position.
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:20 p.m.
Atticus.....To use some of your own words why are " people turning a blind eye " the the fact that weapons were used ?
treetowncartel
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:18 p.m.
I think the answer is that they used a weapon and then the victim ended up at the hospital with severe injuries, not the nurses office with a nosebleed. If your child was beaten as they lay in a fetal position to the point where they had extensive injuries and there was a need for hospitilization would you want the people who allegedly did it to not face any charges from the prosecutor?
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:09 p.m.
Sometimes kids fight at school, and very rarely are the police involved. So why is it ok to not prosecute every fight that occurs at school as a criminal case? Why is it that every other time that a fight occurs at school the 2 participants are not charged with assualt, while these kids are being prosecuted to the full extent of the law? I guess the question I would like you to answer (since I've answered your question) is; Why are these kids being targeted for prosecution, while the police and prosecuters turn a blind eye to all of the other crimes that occur at school?
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:25 p.m.
Atticus....Would you PLEASE explain why race is a issue here ? They used weapons no one else did.THEY took simple assault /fighting and turned THEIR actions into a felony assault
Robert E.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:57 p.m.
Wow...here we go again...still more vitriol in the tank huh people? I hope and pray the disparaging comments made here are not representative of Ann Arbor as a whole but rather representative of a vocal, cynical, and bitter subgroup that feels justified in casting judgement over everyone and everything...the ability of most here to think beyond their own prejudices is sorely lacking...so so sad...
jcj
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:41 p.m.
Robert I will give credit where credit is due. If you want to make an argument based on the fact that these are high school kids I will listen. But the problem arises when for no legitimate reason race is brought into the equation.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:52 a.m.
Is that what happened? Because the coaches were supposedly just arguing. If your contention is that black children are so weak that to see a white man argue is reason to stomp on some innocent child's face, you are doing more harm to the perception of black youth than anyone else here.
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 3:54 a.m.
Please jcj...gimme a little credit...Im not referring to anyone directly involved in the incident and especially not the victims or their families...Im referring to the those in the community with their arm chair condemnation of these boys and their ridicule of any reasonable attempt to look at or consider this incident through a larger context...not only one of race but the fact that these are teenage boys and that it was the coaches who started the whole thing...no one is saying these boys dont deserve consequences for their actions and Im not making excuses for them...however, if you werent on the field that evening, you cant say you know exactly what happened...the video is not enough...I guarantee you that for any of us men who played high school football and took it seriously, if you saw your arch rival's coach starting a postgame physical altercation with your coach, you would have been instantly loaded with pure adrenaline, limited impulse control, and limited judgement...
jcj
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:31 a.m.
Robert I have never said what should happen. Only what should not happen. And that is the race card being played at every turn. Was not the victim that was struck with the crutch black? Are you saying he and his family do not understand social awareness or lack of it, as well or better than you or I? I would only say let the justice system take its course. And it does not matter if the swinger or victim is white or black.
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:17 a.m.
Oh please my apologies jcj...but I do have a job and a life and am not able to constantly monitor this website...but again, please forgive me...the vast majority of the vitriol is, without question, coming from people who seem to think these boys deserve eternal damnation...they have no perspective and no social awareness which is shocking to me in Ann Arbor...one of my reponses was removed for some reason I cant determine...Mr. Smith, thank you for your reasoned response to my comment that was removed...
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:35 p.m.
Thank you Robert E. and I do agree with you about today's racism in many ways. But unfortunately, this instance is not one of them. If it were my son, as painful as it would be, he would have to face the consequences of his actions. At that age, he knows right from wrong. If he didn't learn at home because I didn't teach him or he choose to ignore his teachings from home is that society's fault? And if it is society's fault, what should we do about it to truly help this?
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:30 p.m.
I see you are not interested in answering my question Robert. I will take that as a cop out.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:03 p.m.
Seeing what was deleted, and what remains, makes me think Ms. Baskett took over the administrative privileges of this blog at about 4:00. The same accusations Robert and Atticus are making about us could be applied to them very easily, yet any response is deleted. Whoever is doing this has taken sides and shouldn't be allowed to use the delete button. It's hard to have an honest discussion about race in these circumstances. There's a very interesting and introspective guest column called "Being White in Philly" that's making the rounds this week. I suggest the staff here read that article. We cause more harm than good when we try to protect ourselves from hearing something we disagree with.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:40 p.m.
Well Robert E. and Atticus F., I can't read it because it was deleted. Was it about the content of character?
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:39 p.m.
Robert Are you saying there is NO vitriol coming from those saying this is a racially motivated prosecution? Please a straight answer no double talk!
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:24 p.m.
Well said Robert.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:14 p.m.
Robert E. what would Dr Martin Luther King say? There's nothing disparaging about that is there? Seriously, what do you think he would say?
Piledriver
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:51 p.m.
If Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. were alive today, he might say something along the lines...."your right to swing a crutch or kick your cleat without legal repercussions ends where my nose begins."
thecompound
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:51 p.m.
"Better alternatives"? How about expelling for starters?
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:27 p.m.
Is it racist to say, hey we know what they did broke the law and actually hurt another student but give them a pass anyway because there is so many of their race in prison now as it is? It's like saying hey this race can't be held accountable, we should have lower standards for them which I personally find more insulting and more racist. I wonder what Dr.Martin Luther King Jr. would say?
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:52 p.m.
Hmmm, still not buying the "white" goal part. I see it as something for everyone regardless of race to aspire to and you certainly don't have to agree with me. Again, you are welcome to your opinion.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:07 p.m.
In the context of who he was and the reality of the injustice he fought, he is definitely an American hero. I think it's sad that if you listen to his words and apply them to modern society, his goals are more "white" goals today.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:50 p.m.
I disagree with you about Dr. Martin Luther King, what he would say and that his dream is a "white" dream, that we have de-legitimized the goal of racial harmony by celebrating him and his work but you are entitled to your opinion.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:17 p.m.
I don't think he'd say anything. We'd just see him doing a "face-palm" of understanding. Strange that his "dream" is more a white dream than a black one. Perhaps by embracing his views, even to the level of making his birthday a national holiday, we have done more harm than good - we have de-legitimized the goal of racial harmony. Which I would think is a noble goal.
Jim Mulchay
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:18 p.m.
All this concern and hand-ringing would have been more useful and more timely in late October and early November - especially the ACLU concerns. By making this an issue at the time that the legal system kicks in the defenders of the accused have made this a "loose - loose" - however this turns out. There is still an injured student; There are three students whose actions were enough for the legal system to accuse them of felonies; There is a school board that looks indecisive, weak and patronizing; The ACLU has put themselves in a bad light; The legal system has been accused of racial prejudice; The defenders of the accused have been accused of racial prejudice; The whole system for student discipline in the AAPS seems to be a matter of negotiation; Great advertising for school-of-choice families and Ann Arbor. Whose done well? (1) The family of the student has - in general - kept out the the press; (2) The police and prosecutors seem to have kept their mouths shut; (3) The professional educators (principals, ADs, teachers) have kept their mouths shut.
Chris Blackstone
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:16 p.m.
The lack of logic in that letter from the ACLU is astounding. There is nothing similar at all between hockey players who "pummel each other to the delight of spectators" and the high schoolers charged in this brawl. Fighting is illegal in all amateur hockey and it wouldn't surprise me if it was outlawed in coming years as we are starting to learn more about the damages to the brain from frequent fighting (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/sports/hockey/derek-boogaard-a-brain-going-bad.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0). Additionally, severe violent infractions during hockey games have sometimes called for criminal charges (http://www.academia.edu/456701/Players_On_Thin_Ice_Hockey_Violence_and_the_Canadian_Law). So, it seems like brutality isn't tolerated either in hockey or in Ann Arbor. Has the prosecutor's office made any official statements as to why these particular combatants where charged while others weren't?
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:24 p.m.
The others weren't swinging weapons
Claude Kershner
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:13 p.m.
Just when you thought the stupidity of the AABOE couldn't be surpassed we now have this happiness to endure.
Macabre Sunset
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:54 a.m.
I think this one might be too absurd even for Al Sharpton. I may be wrong.
a2citizen
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:11 p.m.
Sit tight, this too will be surpassed.
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:09 p.m.
" skin color of the victim is irrelevant " wanna bet if the victim was black and the attackers were white it would be quite " relevant "
kalamityjane
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:04 p.m.
This entire situation is disturbing on so many levels. I agree wholeheartedly with Sam Smith; there are definitely injustices in the legal system but I don't see them here, I just don't. Yes the coaches had bad manners and yes it "appears" a large group was fighting but beating someone with a crutch or stomping someone in the face with a cleat is extreme. The whole "brawl" was uneccesary and whereas the coaches seem to need some behavioral management and good sportsmanship training these kids need it as well. I think its awful that these teens face criminal charges, binding with them forever. But I think its awful they put themselves in that situation. Children are taught as toddlers to be accountable for their actions, where is the accountability? I can't say what punishment I see fitting, I think its a waste of jail space/tax money for them to be incarerated but I also feel they have jeopardized their own freedoms. Perhaps probation/criminal records will wake them up? I think that people crying racism over this situation is why so many racist acts wind up ignored. Its like the boy who cried wolf, now when the ACLU is really needed or someone is truly being railroaded/abused because of race no one is going to care becaue of situations like this!
Sam S Smith
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:36 a.m.
aamom outstanding post!
aamom
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:21 a.m.
mgoscottie - I think race gets focused on because because people are uncomfortable talking about poverty. Let's face it, most people in prison are poor, undereducated, and underparented. The majority of people living in poverty in the US are black or hispanic. That is the correlation. The poor white people seem to do plenty of stupid things and end up in jail as well, there just aren't as many of them statistically. If we could figure out how to end poverty and increase education and parenting skills, I guarantee the prisons would be much emptier of people of all colors.
Sam S Smith
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:20 a.m.
mgoscottie, I've heard of this but to be honest, I have not experienced it. Dismissing does not lead to open and helpful discussion on race or racism. I get what you're saying. Much more work needs to be done!
mgoscottie
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:28 p.m.
I think people dismiss race because it makes them uncomfortable that white people benefit from it so much and want to think they're awesome based on their tough upbringing having to do homework problems in a 400k house when really being white and graduating from college is the easiest thing in the world....
Usual Suspect
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:37 p.m.
"I think that people crying racism over this situation is why so many racist acts wind up ignored." I agree. And you have the Democrats and the White House stenographer corps (i.e, the media) to thank for that.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:13 p.m.
Outstanding point! It is grandstanding and totally wrong using race in an issue where race is irrelevant and all this does are making legitimate racial issues ignored or dismissed!
Howard Beale
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:53 p.m.
How long before the Reverends Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson fly into town on their private jets, to rally and march against another "injustice" against these innocents "youts"? Don't worry if they do show, all you have to do is make a "donation" to each of their respective "foundations" and they'll be flying the hell back out of town as soon as the news cameras are turned off.
average joe
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:53 p.m.
I hear Al & Jesse are in Detroit protesting the EFM, so this is a possibility. I can't believe they haven't come out already.
towncryer
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:49 p.m.
Wow. I guess everything is a racial attack now.
Jack Gladney
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:36 p.m.
@Atticus I think Howard is saying "youts" ala Joe Pesci in 'My Cousin Vinnie.' I'm pretty sure you can still make fun of Italians like you can the Irish here and not be a racist. I could be wrong though.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:27 p.m.
The phonetic respelling of a word in order to draw emphasis on a persons accent (as you have done with the word "youts") is highly racist.
newsboy
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:47 p.m.
So violents against males is acceptable but females have laws protecting them?
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:46 p.m.
I'm not saying that the coaches should not face consequences but a push that was given is very different than being kicked in the face or having a crutch swung at you. If you think otherwise, perhaps a demonstration can be done with your face being kicked with cleats then a crutch can be swung at you while you're on the ground. Look what the coaches did was wrong but the teens are not stupid and made choices. No one had a gun to their head. "Um the coaches were fighting so I just had to join in duh!" I find it rather perplexing that there is so much inconsistency on what to expect from youth. Making "victims" of the perpetrators is like CNN feeling sorry for the rapist footballers and leaving out the girl who was raped.
dancinginmysoul
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:43 p.m.
Thank you ACLU.
stevek
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:37 p.m.
Maybe the "three black students" could admit that they did something wrong and use this as a learning experience on how not to behave/handle their emotions. Maybe they could use this to influence other black kids on how not to react in similar situations. Nope, lets just try to perpetuate the stereotype that everything that you do wrong can be blamed on racial issues.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 5:43 a.m.
Apparently 5 people think they did nothing wrong.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:31 p.m.
What about Mr. Harris' civil liberties? Sorry Mr. Harris. It's OK if it race on race!
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:29 p.m.
The ACLU is famous for fighting for the rights of criminals. Not so much so for the rights of victims!
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 7:21 p.m.
Thank you Barb...indeed the VRA is opposed by many victims rights groups because it would turn the justice system on its head by basically eliminating due process and making a mockery of innocent until proven guilty...the VRA sounds benign but its anything but...
Barb
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 5:35 p.m.
More like you should have to prove that your statement is true. And the "Victim's Rights" amendment was more about removing Due Process and other aspects of our judicial system that are there for a reason.
jcj
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:27 p.m.
Robert PLEASE show proof that my statement is false! Have you ever heard of the proposed victims rights amendment? The ACLU WAS very much opposed to it! The proposed ""rights"" include notification of, guaranteed admission to and the right to speak during the course of legal proceedings, including: pre-trial release, plea bargains, sentencing and parole. Additionally, VRA requires courts to consider victims' interests to ensure trials occurs without ""unreasonable delays"" and to consider the victims' safety when defendants are considered for conditional releases.
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 3:23 a.m.
That is such a ridiculous and absolutely false statement about the ACLU jcj...you have no idea what you're talking about...looks like you are the one who needs to get your facts straight...
Angry Moderate
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:58 p.m.
The minority student has a right to play football without being beaten with a metal object. I guess he's just an Uncle Tom though, huh?
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:03 p.m.
They work hard to make sure that the police or prosecuters don't break the law, among other things. I think there is something to be said for the people who police the police. without this barrier to protect us, there would be nobody to stand up to officials who want to take away our rights.
DonBee
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:14 p.m.
If it had been a battle of the marching bands and a fight had broken out....and a non-minority student had swung a crutch... Neither the school board, nor the ACLU would be involved. Why do we worship at the fount of football and why do we condone violence from students in any form?
Angry Moderate
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:51 p.m.
Mgoacottie, please tell us the date and time of the school board meeting where that happened. The meetings are recorded, so it should be easy to find.
Barb
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:39 p.m.
Good question that's also being asked in Steubenville, OH.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:28 p.m.
A truer statement has not been made!
pseudo
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:10 p.m.
I am generally respectful of the ACLU and their work but I don't get this one. But then again, I don't see why any of the coaches have been able to retain their jobs given their behavior and the behavior of their teams. These students, however, acted violently particularly the one swinging the crutch. The video is clear. These charges seem solid to me given the evidence and I do not believe that crying "black" should get anyone off given their behavior. Its behavior folks. Now about those coaching jobs?
ArthGuinness
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 3:36 p.m.
I think this post covers my feelings quite accurately.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:08 p.m.
"Two white coaches" did not trigger a fight. They argued and there was one push, which was deemed defensive in nature. They did nothing illegal. Everybody made their own choice to fight or not fight. If what the coaches did started the fight, as if by some magic force people were forced to fight once they saw what the coaches were doing, then how do you explain the ability of other students - of several races including the same race as those who were charged - who successfully made the choice not to fight? Did they have some sort of force-field around them to resist this you-must-fight-because-of-what-the -coaches-did effect that "triggered" some students to start fighting? "Dozens of players throw numerous punches," which were not criminal in nature. Charges can be brought at the request of the person they hit, but these are not criminal offenses. The prosecutor does not get involved. "Three black students end up facing criminal charges." Well, yeah, because they committed criminal acts. "Week in, week out, hockey players pummel each other to the delight of spectators," these are not criminal acts.
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:51 p.m.
Jcj you just dont get it...I never said this was a "non incident" and I do believe some consequences are in order...I simply believe the boys dont deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law considering the circumstances involved...if you carefully read my response to you below you would see that...I define reality differently than you do...get over it...
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:40 p.m.
Dorchester thank you for your excellent point...I agree completely...amazing how so many seem to give the coaches a free pass...
Dorchester
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:50 p.m.
Usual.. Wrong Wrong... The coaches started and incited a near riot. One coach, a very large man, charged out after the game and lost his cool at the much smaller opposing coach. The larger coach got in his face, and to me looked like he shoved the smaller coach while screaming in a most threatening manner. It looked like a major pummeling was about to take place. That is when the 3rd coach bolted from the hand shake line to intervene and chaos ensued. Coaches also have to take personal responsibility and be held accountable. If you charge the kids then you most certainly have to charge the adults.
jcj
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
"people so easily forget...they think somehow that all teenagers should be capable of always showing reasoned judgement and restraint" Where exactly do you draw the line? Do you draw the line at larceny? Do you draw the line at the school grounds? Do you draw the line at the rape of a fellow high school student? Do you draw the line at the swinging of a crutch at anyone laying on the ground defenseless? And I submit you would not think this was a non incident if I let my 12 year old grandson take a swing at your child with a crutch while he was standing let alone laying on the ground.
Robert E.
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 4:36 a.m.
Well said Mr. Spaulding...people so easily forget...they think somehow that all teenagers should be capable of always showing reasoned judgement and restraint when their arch rival's coach starts a fight with their own coach on the football field...
John Spalding
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:22 p.m.
They are just kids! And yes, African American males( who are disproportionately represented behind bars) . Does this society have nothing but to lock them up and throw away the key? I have to side with the ACLU.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:06 p.m.
And this is why the ACLU is completely irrelevant these days. It no longer protects individuals from having rights taken away; it protects advantaged minorities from facing the consequences for their actions.
Macabre Sunset
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:20 p.m.
I think that comment removal was inappropriate. Please do not take sides.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:58 p.m.
Nowayjose, minorities suffer from a grander scale of disadvantages as it relates to access to healthcare, access to education, and access to jobs, and as in this case, the way they are treated within the criminal justice system. I'm not sure why people act as if these inequities are non existant. Yes, there are many people who are disadvantaged, from all races. But as a whole, minorities have a greater deal of roadblocks to contend with on the road to success.
Robert E.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:47 p.m.
Hah...yeah "avantaged minorities"...good one...
nowayjose
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:04 p.m.
Just because you're a minority doesn't make you disadvantaged. There aren't that many people as rich as bill gates. Does that make him a disadvantaged minority? Same applies to ethnicity.
Barb
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:38 p.m.
"advantaged minorities"... I love that!
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:13 p.m.
If you did some research, you would find that they take up many causes in regards to civil liberties. They even defend many conservative organizations who have had their rights threatened.
Sutro1
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:04 p.m.
I have beenin Ann Arbor for thirteen years. EVERY year there is a brawl between these two high schools. I can only imagine that the brawls have been going on long before I arrived. The fact that the brawls continue year after year is a reflection on the school administration and the athletic divisions. One must ask why this behavior is allowed to continue. If anyone should be facing charges, it should be the administration and the coaches who cannot seem to control this issue. Perhaps the football teams should be disbanded.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:36 p.m.
Sutro1 It is easy to make claims then walk away without defending the outrageous claims!
Eli
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:17 p.m.
There has NOT been a brawl every year even in recent years, let alone for the last 30 years. It's more a reflection on teenage temperament and rivalry-gone-wrong than on the "administration" as you suggest. This behavior, also, is most certainly is not "allowed to continue..." as you claim, which I why you are reading an article about individuals' punishments in the first place...
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:26 p.m.
Could you PLEASE document the brawls?
A2Girl63
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:04 p.m.
So the ALCU sends a letter wih the statistics of young balck males here we go again. I agree something should have happened to the head coaches, but it didnt. The boys who picked up the crutches, kicked the victim were black . The victim is bi-racial. They made the choice to do that. It shouldnt matter the color of your skin, your religious background etc.. They made poor choices, they need to be held accountable for what they did . There were plenty of other students of other ethnicities who did not make a poor. Consequences for their choices/actions.That might send a better message to the youth of our community.
EyeHeartA2
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 12:26 p.m.
"Why is it that every other time that a fight occurs at school the 2 participants are NOT charged with assualt, (sic)" Care to back up that pile of crap with evidence?
Usual Suspect
Wed, Mar 20, 2013 : 2:21 a.m.
"the fact that these boys seem to be being singled out because of their race IS the relevant issue," "Seem to be?" All this is based on "seem to be?" What ever happened to "Have been shown to be" or "There is evidence that supports the suspicion to be?"
mgoscottie
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 11:21 p.m.
If race shouldn't matter then how are only 3 black kids getting charged out of a brawl? Especially one started by white adults? By dismissing statistics you're insinuating that black people are worse than white people.....
towncryer
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:46 p.m.
If a kid in my child's class swings a crutch at her or stomps her face with cleats or steel-toed doc martens, you bet I will be pressing charges!
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 10:12 p.m.
Atticus F., bring these assaults to light! I want schools safe!
kathy coles
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:24 p.m.
The color of the accused's skin was irrelevant until these groups decided to make it relevant and a race issue. I am sure that the victim and his family didn't care what their skin color was while he was being kicked in the face. And if it would have been 3 students that were any other color, they still would have been prosecuted as they should be, and it all would have been very quiet because it would have not been made a race issue by their peers.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:19 p.m.
sam and tdw: Why is it that every other time that a fight occurs at school the 2 participants are NOT charged with assualt, while these kids are being prosecuted to the full extent of the law? There are fights in our schools on a daily basis... If you are so demanding that these particular individuals are prosecuted to the full extent of the law, then you should be willing to say that every time a child pushes another it should be treated as anassualt. You, the police, and the prosecuters DO NOT have the right to cherry pick what crimes get prosecuted, and what crimes do not get prosecuted.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:08 p.m.
Atticus F., what other students kicked someone in the face so the person that was kicked had to go to the hospital, swing a crutch on someone on the ground or used a weapon? Bring them forward. Regardless of the race, these other students should face assault charges as well.
tdw
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 8:09 p.m.
Atticus..Exactly how are being singled out because of their race ? they used weapons no on else did so please explain if you will
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 7:50 p.m.
unusual suspect, the fact that these boys seem to be being singled out because of their race IS the relevant issue, among other issues.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:42 p.m.
"The skin color of the victim is irrelevant" Too bad the same doesn't apply to the alleged perpetrators.
treetowncartel
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:29 p.m.
Once again, the Harris family is kicked down the road like a can by another "stalwart" group that is ignoring we have a victim here.
Sam S Smith
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:29 p.m.
The skin color of the accused should be irrelevant as well and in this case it is. I know that there are injustices in the criminal system but to use statistics, excuses and jargon to drop the charges when assault of this nature has taken place is so wrong on so many levels. It would be more prudent and helpful if these marchers worked toward prevention of this happening.
treetowncartel
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:24 p.m.
Glad to see you are at least willing to still see him as a victim to a beat down, which he was. If this were my child I would want the perpetrator prosecuted regardless.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:17 p.m.
The skin color of the victim is irrelevant.
Atticus F.
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6 p.m.
This is one reason, among many that I'm proud to be a member of the Michigan ACLU, and the national chapter of the ACLU.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:39 p.m.
I knew a kid once that was proud he could burp louder than anyone else. Pride cometh before a fall!
TB
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 9:32 p.m.
This is one reason, among many, that I left 5 years ago. They're good on things that actually have to do with civil liberties like free speech and unreasonable searches, but they cloud their purpose by getting involved with crap like this.
jcj
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 6:25 p.m.
Figures.
Usual Suspect
Tue, Mar 19, 2013 : 5:59 p.m.
"The ACLU of Michigan does not typically comment on the sufficiency of evidence in pending criminal cases, and we decline to do so now with respect to charges that your office is pursuing… Nevertheless..." Nevertheless, were going to comment on it anyway.