2nd AAPS superintendent finalist talks improving board function, also wary of zero-based budgeting
Ann Arbor superintendent finalist Brian Osborne, current superintendent of South Orange-Maplewood School District in New Jersey, listens to a question from an Ann Arbor schools parent during a Q-&-A at Skyline High School, Wednesday, July 17.
Courtney Sacco I AnnArbor.com
Previous coverage:
Ann Arbor Public Schools superintendent finalist Brian Osborne covered the gamut Wednesday during his final interactions with board members and the community prior to the board naming a new superintendent Friday.
Osborne, a superintendent from New Jersey, is one of two candidates still in the running to become the next leader of the district, following former Superintendent Patricia Green's retirement on July 9.
Osborne and fellow finalist Jeanice Kerr Swift, an assistant superintendent in Colorado Springs, conducted site visits and final interviews Tuesday and Wednesday.
Two portions of the daylong visits were open to the public: a final interview and presentation of their 90-day plans to the board in the afternoon, and an evening Q-&-A session with the community.
Osborne cruised through a variety of topics that included his communication strategies and interactions with the media, his use of social media, his leadership style, ways he would empower his senior leadership team, his experiences with potentially closing schools, his budget processes, his thoughts about improving board governing and decision-making practices and his thoughts on inclusive methods of teaching special education students.
At Tuesday's community Q-&-A with Swift, some community members expressed after the meeting their fears that the candidates may not fully understand what they are walking into. One parent and local teacher (not in Ann Arbor), Latisha Simmons, said she does not think it will matter who the board hires as superintendent because of the dysfunction that exists on the board.
Osborne said during his final interview with the board Wednesday afternoon that he would like to work with trustees on some efficiencies and on building stronger governance practices right away.
He said in reviewing many descriptions of meetings and conversations the board has had around this topic, he has the "absolute confidence this board is interested in sound governance and already has been exploring this … so to me, that's all very encouraging."
Trustee Susan Baskett said following Wednesday's Q-&-A that she was happy Osborne addressed these struggles of the board's head-on.
"At least he acknowledges that it has to be done," she said. "I think that people in the past kind of danced around it."
Baskett did say that Osborne's board in New Jersey is "so trained."
"I've gone through all these classes for the MASB (Michigan Association of School Boards) and I swear to god they could teach them," she said. "He's got them well trained — that's the long and the short of it."
Baskett was one of two trustees to visit both candidates' school districts. She said in Osborne's, they were not able to meet with all of the board trustees and it is her understanding that a couple of the trustees "aren't as happy with him" as a leader, but she did not get to experience that firsthand.
Ann Arbor superintendent hopeful Brian Osborne responds to a question from a community member during a public forum Wednesday.
He added that it could possibly be done every couple of years.
He and Swift had similar views on zero-based budgeting: that it takes a great deal of staff time and is inefficient. Zero-based budgeting is currently the direction the Ann Arbor district is headed in. Former superintendent Green began implementing the early stages of this line-by-line accountability in the 2012-13 school year. So far, it is the district's intent to continue with it.
Former Ann Arbor schools superintendent Scott Westerman attended both days of finalist interviews. Westerman, who served in the district from 1960 to 1971, the last eight years as superintendent, said he does not envy the current Board of Education for having to make the tough decision between Osborne and Swift.
"I liked (Osborne) immensely. I liked his style. He is very obviously a very bright person. He responded promptly and thoroughly to every question that was brought forward," Westerman said. "Although, his enterprise as superintendent is at a smaller district, … one of our most outstanding superintendents was Todd Roberts (who served before Green) and I was seeing some of Todd in Osborne."
But Westerman said one piece that gave him pause with Osborne was Osborne never has had to close a school.
"He's had to change attendance boundaries on one occasion, but that's markedly different than closing schools," Westerman said.
Westerman said Swift's experience with closing eight elementary schools and one comprehensive high school during her tenure in Colorado Springs would serve AAPS well, because he said Ann Arbor eventually would have to experience closures.
"When I heard her (on Wednesday), she blew me away, frankly," he said about Swift. "Primarily because of her enthusiasm, but she was so articulate and the breadth of her experience, that was unbelievable. She has been in a whole variety of roles, so I couldn't imagine any one with which she couldn't identify because she has done so much."
Westerman's only reservation about Swift is that she has not been a superintendent in the No. 1 seat before.
Most community members highlighted Osborne's preparedness and knowledge of key issues AAPS faced throughout the past year as a major strength. In answering the board and the public's questions Wednesday, he often tied his responses to actual district occurrences or challenges to show how he would apply his leadership philosophies and experience to situations that could arise in AAPS.
However, not all audience members at the evening Q-and-A session saw Osborne's preparedness as a positive. A few people expressed feeling that Osborne was too well-rehearsed.
Ann Arbor Education Association President Linda Carter asked Osborne during the community Q-&-A session Wednesday to describe his relationships with the unions in his current district and to talk a little about how he works with and engages union representation. Carter said following the meeting that she was a little unsatisfied with Osborne's response to her question. "It was OK," she said.
Carter said she was a bit concerned about Osborne because during the week of July 4, she attended the annual meeting of the National Education Association and was able to meet both Osborne and Swift's teachers union presidents at their respective districts.
Carter said both union leaders had great things to say about the two candidates. But Osborne's teachers union president did not know that Osborne was a finalist for the Ann Arbor superintendency until Carter told him, she said. Carter said that didn't sit well with her because every superintendent she has had a good working relationship with in Ann Arbor has called her personally to tell her when he or she was involved in an interview process in another district.
The next incoming superintendent will be the 13th superintendent Carter has worked with in her 38 years with the Ann Arbor Public Schools.
Osborne explained his perspective on not telling his union representation. He said part of the responsibility of a superintendent is to minimize distractions, so he didn't want to tell the union until it became more apparent he could be making a move.
Danielle Arndt covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. Follow her on Twitter @DanielleArndt or email her at daniellearndt@annarbor.com.
Comments
zucker
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 7:31 p.m.
Osborne is the the right choice. Hopefully this board won't be intimidated by him and view him as a leader for both the district and this board.
AAPSelementparent
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 7:14 p.m.
I really appreciate Westerman's input here, it's good to have the perspective of someone who has been in the position and has lived in A2 for so long. His comments support and bolster the opinion I have been building of Osborne as the process has progressed and been so wonderfully documented for everyone by Danielle and Kellie. I finally feel well informed enough on the topic to have a valid opinion and the ability to move beyond 'hoping for the best' as decided by our BOE. Osborne is a strong candidate who has put an admirable amount of work into researching our issues and formulating thoughtful and comprehensive plans in beginning to address them. He should be our next superintendent, and I sincerely hope that come Friday, he will be. Board members, I think the-now-informed public has made their mostly-collective opinion on this matter clear: Brian Osborne should be our next superintendent.
katznjammer
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 6:30 p.m.
I like the fact that Osborne has been a teacher. Being in the trenches, teachers can tell you right now what can be improved and how to save money. His approach of visiting all the schools in the district is also a positive. When I was in school (not here in A2), our superintendent was always visiting our schools, not locked away in an office bubble.
Top Cat
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 3:33 p.m.
There is only one thing wrong with zero based budgeting. And that is, it doesn't work. This is a 1970's concept that everything an entity does has to be re-thought, re-evaluated and re-justified annually. No organization, public or private can do that. Another old buzz word that belongs on the trash heap.
AMOC
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 4:33 p.m.
TopCat, Zero based budgeting will certainly work to transition away from a dysfunctional system. And once you have made the changeover to a line-item by line-item budget for each department or division, you can set up a review schedule that makes sense. Not every activity needs to be extensively evaluated and justified every year. Unfortunately, what AAPS has typically done is to create their first draft budget by taking the last years' expenditures and adding 3-5% in every category then loudly and widely bemoaning the incredibly deep cuts they have been forced to make because the legislature has given them less than they "budgeted" for. Yes, it is true that state funding has not kept up with the increases in school district contributions to retired teachers' health insurance and pension costs. It is also true that most Michigan workers income, and the state's income from property and sales taxes have not kept up with these costs either. A year or two of zero-based budgeting, followed by establishing and maintaining good internal controls over line-item budgets for each school building and each department within AAPS Central Office would certainly raise my confidence that AAPS is not spending wastefully or on frivolous perqs.
NotJoeStrupp
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 2:46 p.m.
Please take Oborne. Please please please.
Jim Mulchay
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 2:05 p.m.
The "zero based budget" seems to be a hot topic. I wonder if the prior superintendent may have had similar misgivings - BEFORE she got the job. As "time consuming" as it may be, the prior superintendent may have felt zero-based budgeting was the best solution to Ann Arbor's problems. Sometimes the best solution is not the easiest or the most popular.
nekm1
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 2:14 p.m.
Right On Jim!
LXIX
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 1:31 p.m.
Both candidates seem to be "climbers" not ready to settle. Temps that have a gruesome-shrinksome job ahead and leave the angst behind in three after making the tough improvements. Supposedly Osborne got his PhD while SI. Ambitious overlapping. The go-getter that he is indicates to me that he would rather be Secretary of Education and/or UM aka Harvard Professor author luminary (Only one whimpy Big Ten school in Jersey).. His contract is up in June 2014 and due to Governor Christie's decree his salary will then be capped at 167k. Despite their rough budgets, NJ BOE just raised Osborne's salary from 208k to 221k - knowing that AAPS was looking 180k-220k. Why do that if he is leaving buddy buddy ? He called Green's 246k salary "sick" so maybe his 221k is just a mild fever. Osborne taught Spanish in the Bronx then lived in a few different places in South America before working in NJ. What was the big attraction down there? Family ? Social work? Missionary work? Politics? Maybe the BOE and AAcom should ask him. Osborne would make a great newsworthy SI. But he won't stop there. Swift is from money mags #1 Best City to Live where the sun shines 300 days per year. Dealing with a lot of Military base and industrial complex parents she probably can hold her own. Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker is there so moving away may not be such a bad idea. She would also make a great but probably not-newsworthy SI and be more likely to stay here until the depressing Michigan weather sends her to Florida with another golden parachute.. Now class..., what is/was the total AAPS cost for our Ms. Green hire/retire ? And did the BOE learn anything from their boo-boo ? Yes Deb, you may leave the room. Anyone else have the answer?
Anne
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 7:43 p.m.
Osborne's pay increase in NJ was a 3% bonus for meeting and exceeding expectations and a money due him from 2 previous years per his contract. You can read about it here: http://maplewood.patch.com/groups/schools/p/board-votes-superintendent-osborne-221k-salary
LXIX
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 3:58 p.m.
Thanks for the corrections. He is already SI. Other than the pay issue below where do SIs go next? Osborne's South American work ? Danielle... My eyeballs were jiggling along with the news almost as fast as your fingers were flying. I missed who said Green's salary was "sick." Don't know who thought that was such a necessity at the time (*note) Actually thought it a little odd that he would say that but kept going. (*)Other than the education world of crony favoritism in tight times for others, why would Osborne's BOE boost his salary so much 208k->221k if he were leaving ? Not to entice him to stay to suffer a 60k cut - doesn't make sense.
Danielle Arndt
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 3:01 p.m.
Just a note, Osborne's did not call Green's salary "sick." That was the parent asking the question who said that. Osborne was careful to say that he did not have a comment on the former superintendent's salary.
aaparent
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 2:08 p.m.
@LXIX - you raise some interesting points. Just to counter one of them. I know more than a few people who have PHDs who did finish their dissertations after being hired for the first job. If a dissertation was research based and all the data was collected, finishing may involve writing only or even writing certain sections. Your characterization of the getting a job and being an academic climber is possible, but using the incomplete dissertation as evidence is not a fair point. In fact, needing to get a job to pay to live after years in grad school or having loans, seems more plausible, though I have no idea about this. People with PhDs tend to not share the details of how they finished. There is a range of how slow or fast people get through it. The concern to me would be if he was "ABD" (all but dissertation) and didn't get his degree. He finished what he set out to do with his PhD and then got hired at a district to gain experience. That seems like a plus to me. Whether he can be trusted and whether he is sincere is something of a risk for any new hire. He seemed more competent to me in his presentations than Swift and like he could work with people and stay on task. If Osborne wanted to pursue an academic track post PhD, he would have applied for faculty jobs. My understanding is that his program was focused on being a superintendent, not being an academic professor.
nekm1
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 1:19 p.m.
So do these Superintendants get paid by the taxpayers or the Union Presidents? Zero based budgeting is a great idea every 3 years....holds back creeping costs or simple "just add 10%" to next year's budget for each departmental cost. It should also flush out a great deal of waste, if it is done thoroughly. Does the board know if if candidate will MOVE to the Ann Arbor area? Just some thoughts.
a2schoolparent
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 12:21 p.m.
Reading the live blog, I really like Dr. Osborne, too. Of course he doesn't have all the answers to AAPS problems, but he has the no-nonsense attitude and an honest style, he has prepared himself well, he is willing to listen, he has facts and he is willing to look for more facts. I think he is very strong. I especially like his attitude of treating parent concerns/outspokenness as an asset. It is. I feel that he will have a good working relationship with the community.
Steve Bean
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 12:16 p.m.
"Osborne explained his perspective on not telling his union representation. He said part of the responsibility of a superintendent is to minimize distractions, so he didn't want to tell the union until it became more apparent he could be making a move." He apparently had thought it through (or else was very quick to make it up on the spot). Danielle, was his statement above in response to a question from you? Did Linda Carter say whether she had asked Osbourne for his explanation in the two weeks or so since she had learned about it?
Danielle Arndt
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 2:59 p.m.
Steve, Brian Osborne's statement that you reference was made to the entire audience after Linda Carter's question about interacting with union representation. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the article.
local
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 11:32 a.m.
After many days of following blogs and looking into backgrounds of both these candidates, I think their is a clear choice to be made. As a teacher in the district, Dr. Osborne's 90 day plan is something you want to see and hear. Immersing yourself in the schools is always a good thing and seeing the Super more than on "welcome back" day in August is somewhat important. I think Mr. Westerman nailed it, Dr. Osborne seems to have a lot of similarities to a former Super in our district who was generally liked and respected. Dr. Osborne was more specific with responses, seemed to understand BOE issues and faced it head on. I am expecting that his family will be part of community and any decisions he makes, will effect their household as well. With all the good things being said, this really seems like a no-brainer. Except for one thing, it is the AAPS BOE making the decision!
LXIX
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 4:55 p.m.
Westerman is a good reference to follow. I question how easily swayed people are. How to ensure what is promised by any applicant or business is delivered ? What contractual penalty will there be? Others must do that so will the BOE get it all in writing or is that too base ? Osborne alluded to some AAPS benefit for his kids but when asked point blank his answer was not like "I will be living here this fall and moving my entire family to the AAPS school district ASAP.". Why not? Somebody (commenter Harris) rumored but would not substantiate that his wife was staying. Does she have her own career and want to move? Is there an instant job in Ann Arbor for her? Even with all the wizardry Dr. Osborne seems to offer, why isn't this an issue? Green lived here but commuted back and forth because her spouse stayed in MD. Ultimately not a good thing for AAPS. Great guy. Would be perfect. Get it all in writing.
Momma G
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 11:07 a.m.
In following the blogs, I have to say Dr. Osborne would be my choice. I think he would stand up for his beliefs, he is going to be here for the students and he would set the Board straight. In my long tenure at AAPS, I've never seen such a ridiculous BOE. The Ann Arbor community really does need to recall them all and get a board who can get along and knows what the "H" they are doing.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 10:50 a.m.
I was privileged to be invited to a private group interview of both candidates following the public presentation of their 90 Day Plan with about 30 community leaders. I also was able to come in person to Dr. Swift's public presentation and followed Dr. Osborne's public presentation live via @Danielle Arndt's excellent live blog. My conclusion is that Dr. Osborne is the far better candidate. I think that Dr. Swift would make an excellent head of curriculum. Dr. Osborne appears to be an excellent leader, excellent communicator and an excellent fit philosophically with Ann Arbor. Hopefully the Board of Trustees can hire him. Specifically, Dr. Osborne answered carefully and completely every question thrown at him, but many of the community leaders I talked to noted that Dr. Swift did not truly answer many of the questions asked of her. With respect to zero based budgeting, I think the headline on this article is a bit misleading. He is correct that zero based budgeting only needs to be done once every few years, & starting with the current year would be ideal. Dr. Osborne's 90 Day Plan was far superior to Dr. Swift's and much more detailed & better thought through. His proposed use of "management by walking around" in his 90 day plan shows indications of excellent management style. His outline of his priorities & methods in his 90 day plan so far appears to be excellent. Dr. Osborne's management style will lead to better results for AAPS. He described a process of encouraging internal debate among his senior leadership team, even going so far as to assign members of his team to opposite sides of a formal debate to hash out issues. He described specific innovative ways he had improved pre-k education across his entire community even outside of the public schools & ways he had significantly improved the growth in achievement of all students of the district including minorities & low & moderate income kids.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 4:46 p.m.
@aaparent & @LXIX: Since it was a private meeting I feel uncomfortable naming names other than the politicians who were present. If someone wants to FOIA it, the email came from the AAPS board secretary, @Amy Osinski on Friday at 5:36 p.m. There were three local politicians present: Sumi Kailasapathy, Ann Arbor City Council Ward 1 (both days) Yusef Rabhi, Washtenaw County Commissioner (both days) Sabra Briere, Ann Arbor City Council Ward 1 (Dr. Osborne interview only) @LXIX should note that Mayor Hieftje was invited but did not attend either day. Several other politicians were invited but didn't attend. I suppose they don't see the crisis in our public schools as a priority? In addition, there was a great group of citizens who are leaders in the community, including people who have been active in school PTOs, the PTOC, retired AAPS administrators, heads of local non-profits engaged with AAPS, past AAPS trustees and people from U-M engaged with AAPS's programs. It was an impressive group who politely asked very tough questions of both candidates.
LXIX
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 4:21 p.m.
Outside of my dislike for the Wall Street banks and excessive Ann Arbor development Mayor Ranzini certainly has a nice ring to it.
aaparent
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 1:19 p.m.
Thanks for sharing this. It looks like the BOE has a clear choice to hire Osborne. Can you share what other community leaders were present at this invite-only event? Was your impression that Osborne would take the job, if it was offered to him?
A2comments
Thu, Jul 18, 2013 : 10:48 a.m.
Osborne's response to Linda Carter's question is great. Perhaps Osborne won't let the unions walk all over him.