District officials: Community High School attracts students to Ann Arbor
Community High School junior Liz McCubery, concentrates as she draws her art teacher Steve Coran, who was posing for his class.
Lon Horwedel | AnnArbor.com
Ask longtime Ann Arbor Community High School counselor John Boshoven the biggest misconceptions about his school, and he isn't at a loss for words.
“They think we’re still ‘hangout high’ or a ‘druggie school’,” he said during a recent tour of Community, an alternative high school in the Ann Arbor school system. “That’s really not the case. Students who go here want to do school. They are smart and independent and know what they want to get out of school.”
Long lauded as an unique jewel of the school district, Community High has drawn fire recently from some parents and residents who wonder how a district struggling with budget problems can continue to run what they consider almost a private school.
District officials say they need to keep Community open because it attracts students to the district. Each student enrolled results in more than $9,000 from the state in funding.
“We have evidence that families move to Ann Arbor because of Community,” said Jennifer Hein, the dean of the school.
The numbers
Nearly 500 students attend Community High School, which has grades 9 through 12 and is located in Kerrytown. Students apply to attend the school and are entered into a lottery drawing for the available spots.
Last year, the school had 368 applicants. Each year, 120 students are offered slots and around 108 accept.
The student population includes 213 who are split enrolled, taking classes at Community and either Huron or Pioneer.
The district is scheduled to spend $4.2 million on the school this year. That includes $2,057,589 classified as instructional services - which is teachers, teaching assistants and counselors, among others. There are 19.32 full-time equivalent teaching positions at the school.
The district spends nearly $2 million a year on support services and supplies, district financial records show.
That breaks down to $8,854 per student, which is higher than the per-student cost at Pioneer ($8,248), but lower than the per-student cost at Huron ($8,996).
The school is 74 percent white, with black students making up 7.3 percent of the student body and those considered multi-ethnic making up 7.1 percent. By comparison, Pioneer's student body is 60.3 percent white, 13.3 percent black and 13.8 percent Asian. Huron's student body is 48.3 percent white, 19.6 percent black and 15.6 percent Asian.
The experience
Community was founded in the 1970s and quickly became known as a counter-culture school.
Community High School Dean Jennifer Hein
That impression still exists to some extent, but there’s seriousness under the façade.
“Some of the styles, some of the affects change, but the inquisitiveness and the goofiness is still there,” longtime English teacher Judith DeWoskin said. “The scholarly passion is still there. If you come here, you agree with our belief that our kids should play a big role in determing their education.”
That means the district’s Community Resources program, where students take for-credit classes taught by real-world professionals, is headquarted at Community and draws a lot of Community students.
The school also has a much-praised Forum program, where students are put into a group with all grades of students and assigned to a teacher who gets to know them on a very personal level.
Community High School freshmen Erez Levin (left) and Vince Hayes race each other to see who can produce enough carbon dioxide to change the color of the liquid in their beakers during an experiment about photosynthesis. Lon Horwedel | AnnArbor.com
“You have to be willing to work hard to come here,” Hein said. “We want kids who want to take control of their education.”
Parent Will Laskill has two students attending other Ann Arbor high schools. He questioned why the things that make Community successful can’t be done in the other schools.
“Do we really need this school just for the elite students in the district? Shouldn’t the district be using this stuff in the other high schools? I don’t think the district should keep the school open now, especially when they need to make so many cuts," he said. "If you still want to have a Community, why not move it into one of the other schools and make a program inside one of those schools?”
Hein said she doesn’t know whether that would work.
“Students really identify with going to Community," she said. "There’s a difference in saying I go to Community versus I’m going to that school on the hill and my classes are in that wing. One of the real attractions to our program is its location. We have students that walk downtown. We have students that walk over to the University of Michigan to go to classes.
“What we do here we do really well.”
David Jesse covers K-12 education for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at davidjesse@annarbor.com or at 734-623-2534.
Comments
Olivia
Thu, Jan 5, 2012 : 1:56 p.m.
To answer Craig Lounsbury question, what happens is that if 12 people who won the lottery don't accept the admission to Community, the top 12 people on the list that was waitlisted from the lottery are given the chance to go to Community and so on and so on.
Andrew MacKie-Mason
Mon, Feb 1, 2010 : 9:12 p.m.
Mr. Jesse, Do the numbers you quote in your story include the costs to the district of students dual-enrolling or participating in sports or other activities at other schools? The reason that Community (with teachers teaching fewer and smaller classes) can appear to be cheaper than schools like Huron is because cost estimates don't include the proportion of the Huron/Pioneer/Skyline costs attributable to dual-enrolled Community students. Community doesn't have the music or art classes that Pioneer and Huron do, or the breadth of extracurricular activities offered at the larger high schools. Because of that, Pioneer and Huron hide the true cost of running Community. Like other commentators, I would like to see real evidence that Community attracts students, other than the word of the Dean (who obviously has a vested interest in making Community seem as valuable to the district as possible).
PhillyCheeseSteak
Mon, Feb 1, 2010 : 2:45 p.m.
Community High School offers a terrific educational experience for SOME students. Many students try to get into C.H.S. but fail to draw a "winning" lottery number. I think that some number of incoming student spots should be reserved for Ann Arbor Open students. They (and their families) have INVESTED 8+ years in "alternative education"!
steven coron
Sat, Jan 30, 2010 : 8:38 a.m.
"Lefties" at Commie go on to serve our country. Fact: Two of my former students are currently serving in Afghanistan, on of which scored the highest in his platoon for physical toughness. Another of my outstanding "lefties" is completing his training at WestPoint.
tmo
Thu, Jan 28, 2010 : 11:26 a.m.
@aataxpayer: "And the #1 dumb idea...... 1 - Close arguably the most successful high school in town because everybody can't get in!" I still haven't heard a sound philosophical argument why the success of the 8% who are golden ticket winners should be borne financially on the backs of the other 92%. If the primary argument is that it attracts more students to Ann Arbor, that hasn't been quantified or demonstrated. And if 'more' choose Ann Arbor because of CHS, I'm guessing it's effect is pretty 'incremental' with the opening of Skyline. Now that Skyline has been built and HS enrollments are lower all around, I would hope that the District makes the tough decisions needed made to maximize the shrinking resources for all, and not just the lucky 8%.
goldy
Wed, Jan 27, 2010 : 7:45 p.m.
What is the racial composition of Skyline?
DagnyJ
Wed, Jan 27, 2010 : 12:32 p.m.
Julie, you and I are proof that people with differing viewpoints can, with respect and diligence, come to the beginnings of agreement about solving problems. Thank you. I appreciate your comments even when I disagree; they make me think.
Julie
Wed, Jan 27, 2010 : 11:37 a.m.
Dagny, I think that's actually a very good idea.
Linda Diane Feldt
Wed, Jan 27, 2010 : 9:32 a.m.
A number of errors and misconceptions have popped up that I can correct. @Rhe Buttle - your correction states that CHS was opened in the '60s. The first year of CHS was 1972. @Andrew Thomas - there were a number of years when camping out for a week or two was the method to get into CHS. the last time this happened was at the administration building, previous years it was in front of CHS. We thought they moved it so that it was a less conspicuous location. My nephew got in based on that system, and he is 27. That practice was ended either that year or next, and replaced with the more fair lottery system. CHS has had waiting lists off and on since that first year, 1972, as well as years where we had to recruit students because numbers were down. That first waiting list had 13 students for the 2nd semester and all got in. I was one of them. It remains a peculiar thing that CHS has subjected to attacks, misinformation and misunderstanding for over 38 years now. The random comment that alumni wouldn't make it into military is a new one, I must admit. Even back in the '70s a number of graduates chose that path, and some made it a career choice. The money spent and how it works has also been misrepresented for decades. CHS students take classes at Pioneer and Huron, Pioneer and Huron students take classes at CHS. This is a good thing. It lets more people have choices, it facilitates that mingling that CHS has also been criticized for not doing (damned if you do and damned if you don't) and motivated students get to learn more. That's good. CHS offers a choice, and is based on the idea that not everyone learns in the same way. Is that such a threatening concept? It is painful to me that not everyone is able to choose CHS. Or Mack Open. Both programs rely on being small as part of their methodology and success. Why is CHS criticized for not letting enough students in? The administration deserves the criticism for not opening additional alternative programs in the last 3 decades. There is obviously interest and demand for them. All is not rosy in alternative school land. Diversity? It has been an issue since day 1. And has been addressed a myriad of ways. Many were successful. With the current lottery system there are many ways our hands are tied. But it is still talked about, it is still a work in progress, innovative ideas are still being tried. Attracting and retaining minority students has always been a high priority at CHS, I base that statement on every report I have heard, actions taken, and programs initiated. Location? While the Community Resource program is sadly far from what it once was, it is dependent on location to survive. If CHS was n o longer centrally located it might put the final nail in that option. It is a good building. It makes a lot of sense for a high school to be there. It works really well. We need options, because no one is the same. Thre are many ways to learn, many ways to be supported in high school. CHS is a stellar public option for those lucky enough to be able to attend. It's fabulous that there are so many other options both private and public, including Huron and Pioneer. I've had friends and family attend Clemente and Stone Schools as well. What a blessing those schools are when you need them. My more fervent support of CHS doesn't mean I don't recognize how important those options are as well. I support having options for learning. As many as possible, as many as we can afford. I'm a taxpayer with no kids who is happy that my money goes to support choices. Because we all benefit from well educated well adjusted kids who are confident and successful. CHS has had a huge role in making that happen for over 38 years. We shouldn't have to keep defending being different. It's a good thing.
DagnyJ
Wed, Jan 27, 2010 : 9:11 a.m.
Here's a suggestion to increase diversity at CHS: Allocate seats based on the middle school. So, if there are 100 seats for example, and Clague's 8th grade represents 30% of the total 8th grade population, then Clague students can fill 30 seats at CHS. That kind of allocation is not based on race, but on geograpphy. Because Ann Arbor neighborhoods are passively segregated by race and affluence, the schools are as well. This geographic distribution would then increase diversity, but not based on race. It's based on geography.
Vanessa Clarke
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 11:26 p.m.
Craig lounsbury is missing that the 12 slots "turned down" are filled from the huge waiting list of all the people who did not win the lottery. Wolverine 3660 has no idea what Open Schooling is actually about, but is just regurgistating the misinformed preconceptions they have. Yup, many liberals are attracted to the school. HELLO! There are many liberals in Ann Arbor -do the math. But I think you will find Open-Schooled students far more likely to notice and question attempted political brainwahing than their peers in more conventional schools. But then I've engaged with kids from both backgrounds. Have you? Rhe Buttle does not understand it correctcly. the dual-enrolled students do not "take " classes at Huron/Pioneer/Skyline while being enrolled at CH -the opposite. they are the kids who didn't get in, but are willing to put up with interminal bussing and sacrifices to be able to join some of the CH programs. They are enrolled primarily at the other three schools. The waiting lists for CH and A2O demonstrate that they are doing something right. If these programs cost more per student, then maybe the focus should be on making such programs more cost-effective -perhaps by making htem more widely available? I live in the Scarlett/Mitchel district, and many kids in my neigborhood go to the charter schools, private schools, Ann Arbor Open, Community High and even to Ypsi Schools (notably Perry) through "school of choice". And most who are not in the Public Open Schools tried but failed to get into Ann Arbor Open/Community High. Yes, anecdotal. Anecdotal doesn't mean wrong. Also, I know three families at Ann Arbor Open who moved into AA from Ypsi and Saline hoping to get their kids into Ann Arbor Open School. They got lucky, but they would have been happy with a place on the waitlist and regular AA schools as a consolation, so it's not so ridiculous to think that people would move here for CH. That's only ridiculous if all the alternatives -should you be unlucky- are crap...but that's not the case and no-one is saying it is. Huron and Pioneer and now Skyline are a fantastic safety net, so why not move to Ann Arbor if you can. ask a realtor how important school districts and options within the district are.....
MyOpinion
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:53 p.m.
Dagny raises an important point. If you look at the pictures of the open forums about what to do about potential cuts in the Ann Arbor schools, the audiences were overwhelmingly white. Does that mean that minority parents are not interested in the schools, don't care, etc.? No, but their time may be more limited perhaps they cannot afford sitters for 2 hour discussion/brainstorming session, and there are probably fewer helicopter parents among the poor. And, some of the parents (of all races, but weighted towards the poorer families) were unaware of the forums. This same dynamic works for applying to Community, including the required orientation session. From the heartfelt comments written by the Clemente students on a related story, it sounds like many of these students would do equally well in the small, personalized Community environment. There does need to be a concerted effort to get more minorities in the applicant pool - even if no slots are reserved for them.
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:53 p.m.
DagnyJ, I agree with you, in part. I agree that the racial make-up of the two schools demonstrates the enormous lack of progress we as a society have made in regards to equal opportunities for all races. But I disagree that such a divide suggests we should abandon CHS, which is clearly well-loved and providing a benefit to the community. And I have no idea what you are talking about, suggesting folks are scrambling to defend CHS but not Stone and Clemente. I see much of both.
Andrew Thomas
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:45 p.m.
Bornblu: Yes, the memory is foggy and getting foggier every day. I do remember people with sleeping bags and tents camping out in front of Bach (where AAO used to be) back in the late 70s or early 80s (I think) when I lived on the Old West Side. Maybe AAO went to a lottery before CHS, because I remember the tents went away before I moved (in 1988). But I could be off on the dates. Anyway, the point is, the lottery was initiated quite some time ago in order eliminate the camp-outs.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:31 p.m.
Julie, I think that adamant support of Community without any sense of the impact its white and elite student body has on the effectiveness and perception of the schools is equally knee jerk. I've been trying to address the clear assault on social justice posed by the move to close or consolidate Clemente and Stone, with the vigorous support for Community. Especially that, anyone with eyes can see the white kids at CHS and the minority kids at Clemente.
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:12 p.m.
Oh, I'm so sorry bornblu. My comment was not directed at you at all. It was directed at DagnyJ.
bornblu
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:44 p.m.
Thank you Cheryl! Andrew, I guess your memory is as fuzzy as mine.
bornblu
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:28 p.m.
@Julie If your comment was directed at my post, let me assure you I have no axe to grind. What I am interested in though, is,what exactly is my "knee-jerk response". Would it be that I consider CHS to provide a wonderful educational opportunity, that more students should have access to an opportunity and enviornment like this, that what CHS has to offer should and can not be lost? If it is my reference to location, I do not feel that it is a "knee jerk response" to try and locate an area/building that can increase providing this opportunity to others. Do I believe that a lottery is exclusionary? Yes, by its nature it excludes (by chance or any other reason) many who would love the opportunity of a CHS education.
cheryl grace
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:08 p.m.
To clarify the date of the lottery - I have taught at CHS since 1983. The last year of the "camp-out" lottery was 1995. In 1996 we did a 50/50: lottery/stand in line. We eliminated the lottery totally the following year because of the advantages a line gave those who had more resources.
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 7:48 p.m.
I would and do absolutely 100% support all efforts to increase diversity at AAO and CHS. We have actually been devoting quite a bit of time to discussions about race at AAO, and have had many brainstorming town-hall meetings and evening meetings about the best way to do this. I bet you didn't know that AAO actually asked an outside consultant to weigh in on how we can increase the diversity of our applicant pool. Changes in the admissions process were made just this year in an attempt to reduce barriers and make us more accessable and attractive to all families. You speak of something you know nothing about. The AAO community takes this very seriously. And I do want Clemente and Stone to remain open -- I think they provide extremely valuable services to our community and our students. Nobody gains by letting kids fall through the cracks. What I do not understand is your ongoing, knee-jerk response every time CHS and AAO are mentioned. You clearly have an axe to grind. And yes, Andrew Thomas is correct. The lottery was created precisely to STOP the ridiculous lines that so clearly favored those families who could stand in them for days, or pay someone to do so. These schools are NOT for some sort of "elite." Stop propogating that ridiculous misconception. Outreach is strong and persistant, and increasing racial diversity has been a primary goal of our community. The fact that the make-up of the applicant pool is whiter than the district at large is most certainly NOT for lack of trying.
bornblu
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 7:28 p.m.
Andrew I stand corrected regarding that point. Thanks
Andrew Thomas
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 6:22 p.m.
Bornblu: I think your memory is not quite accurate. There was a time BEFORE the lottery when parents used to camp out to register for Ann Arbor Open and Community because they filled on a "first come first serve" basis. This was a good 30 years ago. The District went to a lottery for this very reason -- it's ridiculous for parents to camp for days outside a school just so they can be first in line.
Andrew Thomas
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 6:17 p.m.
Dagny, I'm not sure what your point is about CHS supporters not supporting Clemente or Stone with the same degree of fervor. I have not seen a single post to either thread in favor of keeping CHS open while doing away with the other two alternative high schools. What I have seen are a number of posts from individuals who have had a very strong positive experience at CHS, feel a real loyalty to the school,and want to defend it against what they see as unreasonable attacks from the community. The Clemente students who posted are doing exactly the same thing -- they are passionately concerned about the future of Clemente, and CHS probably isn't even on their radar. I don't think you can infer that any of these people supports one particular alternative high school at the expense of the others. For the record, I support all three, although I do think Clemente needs to either increase its enrollment (through "school of choice") or consolidate with Stone if that doesn't work out.
bornblu
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 6:09 p.m.
@ DajnyJ You are spot on, keep up the good fight. While I again state that CHS provides a wonderful educational opportunity, it must be made available to more students (potential move to a larger facility)due to its current size limitations. What it has to offer can not be lost, but must be expanded on (IMO), at another location. I know that I will again hear protests as to location, location, location. I am unable to cite dates of prior articles (old Ann Arbor News) regarding the lottery system for CHS, but I seem to remember photos of people/families camped out overnight waiting to register for the lottery. If my memory is correct (which at my age it may not be and I would apologize in advance for my error), this form of "lottery?)is quite obviously weighted toward those with time, education and wealth. Specifically those who had the means and ability to participate in this "lottery". Not quite fair or equitable for those without these means.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 5:15 p.m.
Julie, what if an admission system could be fashioned that resembled the law school's--which was legal but created diversity that is racial and socioeconomic? Would you agree with that? It would change the student profile at CHS. But I think it could be done, and I think it could be done legally. Julie, are you arguing as strenuously for the continued operation of Clemente and Stone?
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 4:58 p.m.
Dagny GOOD GRIEF!!!! I actually SUPPORTED the weighting of the applications -- I liked it. I liked that it created more diversity. The supreme court said you could not take race into account in admissions. How much more clear can that be? I just posted it.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 4:32 p.m.
Julie, you might want to look at the decision in the law school case, which did not strike down the school's affirmative action. In addition, it's interesting that you are using this to perpetuate enrollment at CHS to continue to do overwhelmingly white and elite.
JM
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 4:08 p.m.
My daughter was skipped 3 grades and did not have a peer group. Because Community HS offers classes that may be taken at any grade, my daughter was not necessarily the only student in her class that was a different age. When you are perceived by others to be "different," it helps to be in an environment where "different" is another form of normal. My daughter went on to receive her BA, two Masters, and an MD. We are not wealthy and I honestly do not know what we would have done if our daughter had not gotten into CHS. Thanks to all of the teachers and staff - bless you!
Woman in Ypsilanti
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 3:46 p.m.
If I had kids, I would seriously consider moving to Ann Arbor just so my kids would have a chance to go to Community High School. But not before doing everything I could to get Ypsilanti to develop a similar high school because I like living in Ypsilanti more than I liked living in Ann Arbor. I can't speak for other people but even a 33% chance of getting in on the first try (and a much greater chance of getting in eventually if one is willing to transfer sophomore or junior year) is better than no chance. And it doesnt hurt that if one doesn't get into CHS, the other high schools are also pretty good.
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 3:21 p.m.
Dagny, this was the decision from the Supreme Court: Gratz v. Bollinger, 539 U.S. 244 (2003)[1], was a United States Supreme Court case regarding the University of Michigan undergraduate affirmative action admissions policy. In a 63 decision announced on June 23, 2003, the Supreme Court ruled the university's point system (which automatically awarded points to underrepresented ethnic groups) was too mechanistic in its use of race as a factor in admissions, and was therefore unconstitutional. The district was absolutely correct in discontinuing their lottery-weighting in order to stay in compliance with the law. I don't know how you could read it otherwise. Everyone needs to have the same chance, no preference for race. In regards to your other question... I don't know much about the programming and services needed for kids at Stone and Clemente. I don't have a student at CHS, but my understanding is that self-motivated kids do particularly well there. I think these programs are targeting different populations, with different needs. I think you actually know that.
Smiley
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 3:08 p.m.
Dagny - I think your logic is flawed, and I'm unpersuaded. But I do think your heart is in the right place.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 3:03 p.m.
Cathy, you echo my thoughts. CHS should be for students who need that type of environment, like special ed and disadvantaged students.
Cathy Bolton
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 2:55 p.m.
Elites? Check out the number of students enrolled who receive special education services. The numbers every year are between 60-75 kids. Parents and students who apply for the lottery are looking for a program where they will excellent support from the special education staff as well as the general ed teachers. Students with a myriad of learning needs are enrolled and do very well. CHS provides a solid education for students at all ability levels. It is not "like a private school." Special ed kids are often not admitted to those schools.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 2:42 p.m.
The lottery is unfair because it penalizes students based on family background. Families with more education and who have more time to be involved schools have more knowledge about entering the lottery. To believe otherwise is to blame the kids for having bad parents. Julie, the lawsuit about affirmative action are based on treating applicants with the same background differently. It means that students with different grade point averages get treated differently based on race alone. To decide to have seats designated to reflect the student population in the schools does not treat all applicants differently. All students have the same chance of getting a seat compared to every other student who is exactly like them. What do you think about sending all the displaced Clemente kids to Community?
Rhe Buttle
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 2:41 p.m.
Let me see if I understand correctly: they don't want to attend Pioneer or Huron, but they are willing to TAKE classes at Pioneer or Huron? I emphasize TAKE because they are taking a seat away from someone at Pioneer or Huron, they are taking money to be bussed back and forth. Either they should be at Commie High 100% of the time, or at one of the others, Pioneer/Huron/Sundance. I know of children that attended CHS but wanted to be in marching band... Uh, excuse me, why don't you - the school board, teachers, principals and advisors - do us a favor and TEACH them that every action has a consequence. You want to be in marching band? You don't get to go to Commie High. and P.S. = its been Commie High ever since it was started, in the 1960s. Get the connection?
Smiley
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 2:32 p.m.
Dagny - I disagree with your quota approach 100%. I don't think there is a more fair option that a lottery.
Julie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 1:45 p.m.
Dagny -- I've told you this before. The schools with lottery systems were mandated to STOP weighting applications based on race when the U of M affirmative action lawsuits were decided a few years ago. I don't know about CHS, but I DO know that AAO used to maintain good racial diversity despite having a less diverse applicant pool, using this sort of weighting. But now they are not allowed to do it.
Old Salt
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 1:34 p.m.
Community High should only be for residents of Ann Arbor who have lived here for at least three years.
Eric P
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 12:40 p.m.
@ Wolverine3660 who said " I have never met a Commie High student or alum who would, say, be able to hack it in the Marines." Strangely there have been more than a few Commie kids who have made it through the military, including going to Annapolis. I personally know one that is currently part of Former President Carter's Secret Service detail.
DagnyJ
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 12:02 p.m.
I'd like to see the evidence that CHS attracts students to the district, given that there is 1/3 chance they will get in. I'd also like to see the actual costs of shuttle buses and the cost of programs at the other schools allocated to CHS. One other thing: I think CHS should be obligated to have its student body reflect the entire district, in terms of race and socioeconomic status. This is not unheard of; there are other public schools that use a lottery, that reserve seats using this system. There is much evidence that disadvantaged students benefit most from a school like CHS, with small class sizes and relationships with teachers. We need to make this alternative more accessible to these students, especially if we are going to close Clemente. Imagine if those kids at Clemente were given the opportunity to experience the CHS environment. Wouldn't that be a more equitable way to serve all kids--especially the disdavantaged--in AAPS?
tmo
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 11:04 a.m.
Exactly to my point Craig: "I contend its more complicated than the cost of a shuttle bus. Because the programs exist and are available to all Community students to participate (whether they choose to or not) The overall cost of the programs needs to be factored in somehow." If Pioneer for example didn't need to spend part of its $8200/pupil funds for band, orchestra directors, some of the art instructors, and coaches as well as whatever else these programs require, then we could make comparison, but that is not the case. Perhaps the data isn't broken out that way, Jesse, but a journalist needs to point this out.
Lehigh
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:33 a.m.
Hein says they have evidence that people come to Ann Arbor specifically so their kids have a chance at attending Community High. That is a compelling argument, since headcount = dollars in the current system. But what, exactly, is the evidence? Did AnnArbor.com ask to see it? The questions raised by Laskill are the same ones I have. It seems that Community is a clear success. But would students who attend Community be less successful if the program were housed elsewhere? And would students at the 'traditional' high schools actually benefit from having more exposure to the types of students Community attracts? With that said, if per pupil costs at Community aren't out of line, and the only benefit of shutting down Community is a one time shot in the district's finances, what's the budgetary reason to close it down?
shortie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:24 a.m.
@Wolverine3660: I know several Community graduates who have gone on to army/marine/etc. programs and have done just fine. In fact, there is a current Community student getting ready to join that world as well... check it out on the Communicator website (CHS newspaper). As for the way the students are taught... the idea is not that everything they learn is "alternative"; the setting, and the manner they learn it in is, typically. Small school, independence, forum -- those are the alternative aspects. It is not just some liberal breeding ground.
shortie
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:23 a.m.
@Wolverine3660: I know several Community graduates who have gone on to army/marine/etc. programs and have done just fine. In fact, there is a current Community student getting ready to join that world as well... check it out on the Communicator website (CHS newspaper). As for the way the students are taught... the idea is not that everything they learn is "alternative", the setting, and the manner they learn it in is, typically. Small school, independence, forum -- those are the alternative aspects. It is not just some liberal breeding ground.
Craig Lounsbury
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 10:01 a.m.
I should clarify my "immediately" to mean that day rather than "months afterwards" within the context of PMBGibney's "allegations"
Craig Lounsbury
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:57 a.m.
@PMBGibney: My 3 daughters all graduated from Huron. I can tell you that if they did not show up for any class and I had not excused them I got a phone call, immediately.
LSB
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:53 a.m.
"Since Community students use the music and sports programs at the comprehensive high schools, the cost/student figures in the article are misleading." -- And vice-versa -- I have a Skyline student who participates in Community's jazz program. He is one of several who come in to CHS for its music program. I have 4 kids, one at Skyline, one at CHS, one split-enrolled at Skyline/CHS(and one currently at Wines), I see every day the benefits of having a choice of schools so different types of kids can have their needs met. I hope my kids' choices will be available to others in the future.
Wolverine3660
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:43 a.m.
While CHS might be a great school, Iwrry aboutthe sort of worldview and the mindset it imparts s to and inculcates in its students. For example, I have never met a Commie High student or alum who would, say, be able to hack it in the Marines. What I mean is that the practice of indoctrinating kinds into the "alternative", left-leaning mindset is uncalled for in a public school. Schools ought t o teach kids to think for themselves, not indoctrinating kids in one particular way of looking at, analysing, and understanding the world
PMBGibney
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:34 a.m.
As a parent whose children attended and graduated from Community High School I disagree that the school is elitist. The student body is a normal student body. I sent my children there because I wanted them to get an education not be lost in the crowd. Community Teachers teach beyond the books; they teach the skills that the children will need after they graduate from high school. The faculty and staff care about the students there. I heard from friends whose children attended Huron High and Pioneer, at that time, that they would hear of children who would skip school for days and the schools would not know for months afterwards. Talk about children being numbers! I have no regrets sending my children to Community High. We need more Open Schools not fewer.
Barb
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:33 a.m.
"Those numbers don't appear to make sense. They suggest that 12 slots go unfilled..." Not everyone who is offered a slot accepts. Sounds like 12 people turned CHS down. And no effort toward diversity? What's more fair than a random lottery? If you have seen the student body, you know there is diversity. I sat in a CHS orientation meeting last week and it was very diverse. I have 2 kids at CHS and one applying right now. If he doesn't make it in, he'll be OK at Pioneer which is a good school. Not bad options, quite frankly.
lisap
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:20 a.m.
Community High is indeed a jewel for the students in Ann Arbor who both find a fit there and are lucky enough to get in. Two of my three kids would have thrived there, but only one got in - she loves it. Her sister did fine at Pioneer, but like many, found the one-size-fits-all culture very restrictive. To roll Community into the other big high schools would defeat its purpose and dilute it's effectiveness. If the concept of a small personal high school is so popular, I'd suggest we stop investing money the the super sized high schools and try and create another Community somewhere near downtown. Maybe trade Skyline for the old Ann Arbor News building and give the families of Ann Arbor what they seem to want for their kids.
David Jesse
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:16 a.m.
FYI - The current Superintendent, Todd Roberts, has kids that are in elementary school or younger and haven't applied for or been accepted to Community
Craig Lounsbury
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:14 a.m.
tmo:"Since Community students use the music and sports programs at the comprehensive high schools, the cost/student figures in the article are misleading." David Jesse: "I did ask district spokeswoman Liz Margolis how much it costs the districts to run the shuttles between Community and the other comprehensive schools, but haven't heard back." I contend its more complicated than the cost of a shuttle bus. Because the programs exist and are available to all Community students to participate (whether they choose to or not) The overall cost of the programs needs to be factored in somehow.
SemperFi
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 9:08 a.m.
The per pupil spending sited here only includes FTE and supplies. It doesn't reflect the actual cost of running the school. When the cost of the facility operation is considered, the cost per student rises dramatically to over $13K. I've also noticed that administrators for the district don't have a problem getting their kids into Community. Does the superintendants' kids have to go through the lottery?
David Jesse
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:58 a.m.
@TMO: I just was able to use the numbers provided by the district. I did ask district spokeswoman Liz Margolis how much it costs the districts to run the shuttles between Community and the other comprehensive schools, but haven't heard back.
David Jesse
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:54 a.m.
For those of you wondering about academic achievement at Clemente, here is a link to the district's collections of annual reports. Included in the PDF for Community is a breakdown of MEAP scores and other data for the 2008-09 school year: http://www.a2schools.org/schools.pa25/2008-09_pa25_reports
tmo
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:52 a.m.
Since Community students use the music and sports programs at the comprehensive high schools, the cost/student figures in the article are misleading.
limmy
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:38 a.m.
I don't see how people are moving to Ann Arbor because of Community High when there is only a 1 in 3 chance of getting in. That's the rub for a lot of people. The kids that don't get in end up at big schools like Pioneer that are not set up with a value on personal relationships. Many people feel that it is unfair to give only a select few the benefits, especially when they do not make any effort towards racial or economic diversity.
Donna
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:22 a.m.
Community is a much sought after school. My three current Pioneer kids ALL wanted to go there very badly, but none of them got in on the lottery. I think that education really happens at Community.
Craig Lounsbury
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:22 a.m.
We have evidence that families move to Ann Arbor because of Community, said Jennifer Hein, the dean of the school." People move their families here to get in a lottery with a 33% chance of "winning"? I hope a professional educator your "evidence" is a legitimate peer reviewed study and not just anecdotal. "Last year, the school had 368 applicants. Each year, 120 students are offered slots and around 108 accept." Those numbers don't appear to make sense. They suggest that 12 slots go unfilled despite an "abundance" of applicants. What am I missing there?
Olivia
Thu, Jan 5, 2012 : 2 p.m.
To answer Craig Lounsbury question, what happens is that if 12 people who won the lottery don't accept the admission to Community, the top 12 people on the list that was waitlisted from the lottery are given the chance to go to Community and so on and so on.
Lisa Starrfield
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:19 a.m.
Children of elites? Granted I only served as a long term sub at Community but the students I had came from rich and poor families. The thing they had in common was that they applied through the lottery and got lucky enough to get in.
A2K
Tue, Jan 26, 2010 : 8:06 a.m.
A druggie school? I had no idea that rumor was still circulating around...*shakes head* When I attended CHS, it wasn't the CHS students with all the drugs, it was the private school kids -- the only ones with oodles of pocket money from mom/dad! *laughs*