You are viewing this article in the AnnArbor.com archives. For the latest breaking news and updates in Ann Arbor and the surrounding area, see MLive.com/ann-arbor
Posted on Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:59 a.m.

Churches rally around Camp Take Notice as eviction date nears

By John Counts

See All Thumbnails

Thirty area churches came together at St. Mary’s Student Parish in Ann Arbor Thursday evening to support the homeless encampment Camp Take Notice, which is set to be evicted from land owned by the Michigan Department of Transportation June 22.

Roughly 150 people attended the candlelight vigil, which included many residents of the camp, located in Scio Township off Wagner Road near M-14. The crowd was led in prayer and song by various area church leaders. At one point, there was even a group hug with campers, clergy and supporters all joining together at the front of the church.

Julie Kingas, who has lived at Camp Take Notice for two months, reminded supporters why the camp is so important.

Kingas, her husband and daughter had been living in a house on three acres. Then, both Kingas and her husband lost their jobs on the same day. There went their income. Kingas then totaled her car in an accident on Interstate 94. There went their transportation. When their savings evaporated a few months later, there went their home.

“We didn’t have any other family to go to, no one to help us out,” she said.

Kingas sent her 7-year-old daughter to live with a sister-in-law while she and her husband struck out for Camp Take Notice.

“They just opened their arms to us,” she said. “(They) got us a tent. Got us everything we needed. They … took one of the hardest times in our lives and turned it around to see it wasn’t the end. They gave us a home. They gave us a family.”

MDOT sent a letter to residents of the tent city last month, telling them they need to vacate the property by June 22 or face possible arrest and trespassing charges.

At Thursday's rally, participants also acknowledged and held a moment of silence for a resident of the camp who recently died.

“We know that we would be remiss if we did not take some time to acknowledge and to remember,” said the Rev. Mike Frison of Knox Presbyterian Church. The man was found dead at the camp Sunday.

The Rev. Ian Reed Twiss, of Holy Faith Church in Saline, addressed the more political aspects of the situation during a sermon. He said while the state has offered the current residents vouchers for housing, much remains unclear. “The particulars remain a bit vague,” he said.

Twiss was concerned about what will happen to the homeless who haven’t yet made their way to the camp, and will not have the opportunity now that MDOT is planning to fence off the area.

“It compels us to name the generosity in the housing voucher offer and also to protest the deception in it,” he said. “Because we know, we campers and supporters, that the newly homeless who find no room at our full-beyond-capacity shelters, and who have been stumbling into Camp Take Notice at a steady rate, are not going to disappear from the streets because their predecessors got a housing voucher. The lives of our homeless brothers and sisters will be more vulnerable, more chaotic, more difficult. Camp Take Notice was founded to meet an unmet need. Forty vouchers and a fence will not meet that need.”

The crowd marched its way down to Liberty Plaza after the vigil at the church. The crowd got to hear from more residents about the positive impact living at the camp has had on them.

The residents of the camp were overjoyed with the support from the church. “I’m just amazed,” said Anthony Ramirez, who lives at Camp Take Notice. “I’m really grateful that the church has an understanding how much we need the camp.”

Alonzo Young, 47, lived at the camp for about a year. He took the bus to Washtenaw Community College from the camp and was proud to announce he recently earned an associate’s degree.

“Camp Take Notice gave me inspiration in my life,” he said. “God is with the people here today.”

The supporters ranged from members of the St. Mary’s Parish to concerned citizens.

“I think the homeless and people who are really down need our support at any time,” said Mary Ellen Guinn, a member of St. Mary’s parish.

John Mathias said he learned about the camp from a friend.

“I think it’s great. I just hope somebody pays attention to it. I’m going to be calling the governor,” he said.

Frank Bertram lives near the camp in Scio Township.

“We’re advocates for the homeless,” he said. “We have a lot. We could lose it at any time. It’s the right thing to do to support people who are down. Sweeping them under the rug doesn’t solve anything.”

Before the camp is evicted and fenced off, there will be a Root for the Underdog Party, complete with root beer and hot dogs.

“Instead of having a funeral, we’re having a party,” said Peggy Lynch, of MISSION, that group that administers the camp.

The party will take place at the camp from 4 to 6 p.m. on June 21, the day before the eviction.

John Counts covers cops and courts for AnnArbor.com. He can be reached at johncounts@annarbor.com or you can follow him on Twitter.

Comments

really??

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 2:32 p.m.

There is a lot of information missing from this story, they fail to mention the fact that Kingas is a heroin addict, they lost their jobs and home due to drug addiction. I believe these people do need our support, but they need to be honest so that they can receive the support they really need. It is their life choices that put them in this position, lying about their circumstances to gain sympathy and assistance isn't right.

Kitty O'Brien

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 6:27 a.m.

How are people expected to "take notice" when they are hidden away in the woods? Is that really the plight? Setting up camp near City Hall would seem more effective. 60 people without running water or toilets. I feel bad for the long running daycare center and the children directly across the street.

PastorIan

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 5:27 p.m.

jcj and others, you make an excellent suggestion. As a matter of fact, many of the churches supporting the camp, including Holy Faith, are actively exploring the possibility of hosting the camp on their property. I would also encourage you, especially those of you in the Wagner neighborhood, to attend the open-house this Sunday at 6:00. Many of the campers are, in fact, tax paying and hard working people (some with two jobs), who have lost housing for any number of reasons, cannot get shelter at overfull shelters, and have nowhere else to turn. They typically stay just long enough to save the necessary money for first-month, last-month, and deposit for an apartment because, contrary to the opinions of some in this discussion, living outdoors on a site without running water is neither cushy nor fun. I think some genuine face-to-face time between campers and neighbors would do much to help the camp address the legitimate concerns that neighbors have. It would also do much to build understanding among the neighbors of who comes to the camp and why.

Madhatter

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 5:43 p.m.

I think the eviction notice served best addresses the legitimate concerns that the neighbors have. As I have written before, I wish the "campers" the best of luck on their journey to the Delonis Center and the other programs that government offers for the homeless. The faster these campers learn the rules of society, the faster their road to recovery and a new start will begin. As a society, we are not going to enable people when they decide the rules are not for them. It is their responsability to learn that they are in control of their future and they have an obligation to help themselves when there is a problem. Help is available, but they must seek it. One again, best of luck to all of you. I know you can overcome your unfortunate situations.

Ron Granger

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 12:43 a.m.

How much taxpayer money is MDOT spending on this fence project? How many feet of fence?

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 2:20 a.m.

Oh...it's about 300 feet, maybe. No big deal.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 2:20 a.m.

If you look closely, there are fences bordering expressways almost everywhere. They're for people's safety.

Madhatter

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 3:04 p.m.

Hopefully its's a fence that completely surrounds the area. Taxpayer money well spent to protect the property rights of everyone living around the area. Goodbye CTN!

jcj

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 12:08 a.m.

"Because we know, we campers and supporters, that the newly homeless who find no room at our full-beyond-capacity shelters, and who have been stumbling into Camp Take Notice at a steady rate, are not going to disappear from the streets because their predecessors got a housing voucher. So what do they propose? That we allow another camp at every other piece of woods around town? Looks to me like Holy Faith Church in Saline has a good size area behind their church. Move the tents there then they could use the bathrooms in the church and the parking lot for visitors! Knox Presbyterian Church has lots of room behind the church on Wagner! Time for the local churches to step up and put them in their back yard!

larry

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:34 p.m.

I wonder what some of these so-called Progressives* would say if the Church were the one mandating that Camp Take Notice be shut down. Now wouldn't THAT get these folks riled? *Regressives?

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 8:41 p.m.

If it was a bunch of right wing theologians who advocate for the Protestant Work Ethic (meaning the Rich got that way because they are more pious than lazy poor people) the the anti posters would be praising them.

martini man

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 8:20 p.m.

After reading a lot of the comments regarding the CTN situation, one can't help but come to the conclusion that most of the folks are not sympathetic. And contrary to what many liberals believe ..many churches are extremely liberal, and quite often meddle in political issues. One thing for certain about CTN , is that a lot of people are definitely taking notice. Unfortunately for CTN it isn't in their favor. The churches and church groups are in the position of having to put up or shut up..or else just look like agenda driven political groups.

wolfman jack

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:10 p.m.

I have invoked the FSM and he has spoken - in pirate no less - "Arrgh ! Bus tickets to Madison."

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:57 p.m.

I don't understand all the anger at the homeless and others who live in poverty. I can understand being for or against an issue regarding this, but not the intense anger at the individuals who are affected by the problem.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 1:15 a.m.

Very arrogant, Pastorlan. Only you understand. Only you have experience with or knowledge of homeless people. Only when somebody holds the same opinion as do they have the level of knowledge you have.

PastorIan

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 5:42 p.m.

Yes, Gramma, I've been surprised by the vitriole as well. I guess it's always easier to simplify problems by blaming scapegoats and trotting out political slogans. A lot of it also seems to be based on lack of real experience or knowledge of homelessness and homeless people. I wonder how many of the angry posts come from people who've ever known a homeless person or spent any kind of time at the camp or other shelter.

jcj

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 12:12 a.m.

C.C. The proof is this. How many of the "supporters" yourself included have offered their extra room or their backyard?

C.C. Ingersoll

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 9:37 p.m.

Can you provide a resource for these claims Madhatter? What sources do you have to prove these "Hidden agendas"?

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:08 p.m.

It's not anger againt the homeless, Gramma. It's anger against logical fallacies that are used to promote hidden agendas at the expense of taxpayer resources. It's anger against people that feel they are above the rules and have a sense of entitlement. It's anger against the hypocrisies of people that claim they want to help while standing by with idle hands.

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:53 p.m.

Federal Gov't statistics on homelessness indicate that many of the homeless are veterans

Madhatter

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 1:18 a.m.

Health Care, mental health services, housing assistance, and employment/job training are all available to vertans that served our country via the VA office at this URL: http://www.va.gov/HOMELESS/index.asp#veterans-tab The VA is sponsoring a VA for Jobs-Job Fair on June 26-28 in Detroit. If vets don't have access to the internet, they can call 1-877-4AID-VET 24/7 anytime. Considering that these programs are available, why are the efforts of big government failing? Is it not big enough? Take a look at that website, there are even caseworkers for the Detroit Metro area. Why are so many vets homeless considering we have these big government programs?

C.C. Ingersoll

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 9:34 p.m.

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-11-07-homeless-veterans_N.htm It's called "Google" Madhatter

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:10 p.m.

Can you provide a link to any of these statistics? What resource are you using shows this data?

genetracy

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:32 p.m.

There is plenty of vacant land in Detroit they can relocate to.

Jack Campbell

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 10:17 p.m.

I bet a lot of them came from Detroit. But why not? Why not buy some properties in Detroit for them to fix up? Better then the perpetual cycle we have here.

81wolverine

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:28 p.m.

I think the churches need to work constructively together to find an alternative site for CTN rather than just criticize the state. In fact, it might be better to work WITH the state here to find some other location. But, the current site of CTN is dangerous and not suitable for any type of camping.

Unusual Suspect

Sun, Jun 17, 2012 : 1:22 a.m.

An access road? From where, the expressway? Down the steep embankment from Wagner Rd? Then drainage to handle the rain that falls on this access road? This is not a KOA and it's not CTN State Park. It's a strip of land in the middle of an expressway.

jcj

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 8:14 p.m.

Pastorian "An access road could be built, and other infrastructure installed" Why not build a shrine while your at it?

PastorIan

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 5:35 p.m.

This is a great point, 81wolverine, and it is part of what the churches are calling for--a sit-down with gov't and community players to discuss a real solution. I share your concern for the dangers of the current location, but I don't think they'd be hard to remedy. An access road could be built, and other infrastructure installed (at non-profit expense) that would take care of the safety concerns. Even if the gov't paid for these improvements, they would cost substantially less than the forty 1-year housing vouchers, eviction proceedings, and fencing off of land that state agencies are throwing at the problem now.

genetracy

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:25 p.m.

Soembody tell the campers the unemployment rate in Ann Arbor is only 5%, which is the best in the state.

Sarah Heidt

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.

It is an important role of churches to offer to the poor a haven and sanctuary of caring and non-judgmental people who are willing to embrace their presence, listen, pray, and offer whatever assistance they can. Many homeless are "service resistant" (due to mental illness, substance abuse) and live in fear of authority, becoming isolated, lonely, and distrustful. I have corresponded with Rev. Margaret Shafer, whose church, Fifth Avenue Presbyterian in New York, was involved a few years ago in a legal battle with the City over the church's right to allow the homeless to sleep on their steps. This case was heard at the federal level and the church prevailed. This church operated a shelter, but not everyone was willing or able to come inside to sleep. Rev. Shafer writes: "Once I asked an outreach worker from the Volunteers of America what he thought a church could possibly do to help such people. He said, 'The best thing you can do is be the church.' Be the church! Imagine! 'Pray for these folks and help them know that someone cares. Be the community that they do not have. Until they feel valued, they will not value themselves enough to go through the frustration of getting help. '" It is important, beyond financial and other assistance offered, that churches practice this ministry of presence and of simply helping the poor and homeless to feel valued. As churches (many of which have longstanding commitments to the homeless through the Rotating Shelter program, meals, volunteering at Delonis and Alpha House, etc.), we should not undermine our own efforts, and the relationships we build, by refusing to allow homeless onto our properties when they ask us for shelter. There are many barriers to this, as others here have noted. Camping on church grounds is inadequate as a long-term solution, but I hope churches will consider it a temporary option as we continue to advocate for and actively support the building of low- and moderate-income hou

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:31 p.m.

Are there any churches that offer Sunday service at the camp? If the people are pushed into isolation due to a myriad of reasons, then maybe your church could offer services at the camp. I also have a question, if the people fear authority and can't live by society's rules because of their isolation, how can they manage to show up at churches and follow the rules of the church?

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:04 p.m.

I have yet another great idea; I am an idea generator today. Why don't the church organizations start up nonprofit corporations--like thrift stores, community centers, schools, etc--and employ the homeless people that they support so much? It doesn't have to even be a nonprofit, the church could start money generating businesses to empower these people through the magnificent system called capitalism. Then maybe more people will understand that making a profit can help people by allowing them to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. Maybe some of the people employed by the group will start their own business or cause and help even more homeless people by offering them employment. From getting handouts to giving handouts--what a success story this could be!

Madhatter

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 1:20 a.m.

Oh mixmaster, I don't need to pat myself on the back. It looks like plenty of people are doing that for me in the comments section. It's so nice to see that people are waking up to the liberal progressive agenda.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 8:43 p.m.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back, Mr "idea generator". Your ideas are short sighted and unrealistic.

rusty shackelford

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:10 p.m.

Many churches already do this. If you're interested in helping out, St. Vincent's thrift store is a good place to start.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:42 p.m.

Sorry, I meant Sarah, not Susan.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:41 p.m.

Susan, the concept of Ground Cover is exactly what I mean. As long as the newspaper is viable--offers legitimate news and information--I would most certainly purchase a copy. We need more solutions like Ground Cover, not free handouts that only encourage a sense of entitlement. I have no problem with helping people, but I refuse to provide repeated handouts to people unwilling to tackle their own issues. I personally believe that God helps those who help themselves.

Sarah Heidt

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:25 p.m.

Ground Cover, the paper started by Susan Beckett with help from many in the religious community in A2 is doing this, giving homeless folks a way to earn money. I encourage people to buy this newspaper sometime.

Treelover

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:11 p.m.

Why cant the city of Ann Arbor donate some land, churches and other supporters could aid with quality of life issues (meal prep, sanatation, camp rules, mental health treatment, job training, subtance abuse treatment...)?

Treelover

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:16 p.m.

And done without tax payers dollars

klatte

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:02 p.m.

I think there are a lot of people who understand the need for the camp, and respect what has evolved there, but who find that particlular location troublesome. It is highway and a straight drop over a guard rail. Surely there is someplace that is safer for the residents and less surprising for drivers. We wouldn't advocate for anyone else dropping over a rail next to traffic, it just isn't safe. Just because the people doing it are homeless doesn't make it safer.

PastorIan

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 5:53 p.m.

Very true, klatte. I believe these structural and safety issues could be fixed in the current location if there was the political will to make that location work.

Seth Best

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:56 p.m.

A few points about CTN; for all of you who say churches should open their doors, the city has ordinances in place to prevent this from happening. The camp was told that there would be 40 voucchers, now they are being told there are only 25. CTN needs help and most people are saying not in my backyard, so where are they so to go? The shelter is full, churches can't help cause of the city.

clownfish

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:13 p.m.

Ron, what type of positions do have available, and how many?

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:58 p.m.

I thought government was supposed to be the answer to our problems? I thought we needed more regulations?

Mick52

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:50 p.m.

Interesting comments from both sides of a very important complicated issue. My opinion is that if some action violates a law, in this case a law that prohibits camping, that law must be enforced. I think it is malfeasance to pick and choose which law you enforce and which you don't. This action does not solve the problem. John Mathias is quoted in the article saying he is going to call the governor, something that should have been done a long time ago. The governor or legislators who have to make a decision on what to do. It is a little late now with eviction pending. I find it embarrassing for Michigan that our homeless have to live like this, that is why I think the issue needs to be addressed at the state level. It does not help to ignore it up to a deadline.

Terri Eagen-Torkko

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:45 p.m.

I, too, am the member of a parish that used to house homeless families on site (and then we were part of the group that created this: http://www.alphahouse-ihn.org/Home.aspx) and we now house homeless men on site. We can't do it alone. THAT is the issue.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.

Praying away the poverty doesn't work.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:49 p.m.

I'll pray for you, Terri.

Sarah Heidt

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:34 p.m.

I figured that people would say, "if the churches care so much, let the homeless put tents on church property." It's not a bad point. In fact, this was Caleb Poirer's original hope. I know this because I spoke to Caleb in 2009 about it. At the time I was heading the Vespers meal program at First Baptist Church Ann Arbor and I got to know Caleb and other campers. The Ann Arbor Chronicle did an article in September on the camp in which it states: "The plan had been to move the tent community off the private property behind Arborland – where the property owner had given them no explicit permission to camp – to church properties where congregations grant them permission to camp for a specified time period. The idea is to secure arrangements with multiple churches, and to rotate the camp location after a period of months. The effort to secure those commitments from area churches has begun. Part of that effort consists of a media packet that's been distributed to churches. And Tuesday morning, camp resident Jesse A. told The Chronicle that he'd attended a couple of the in-person contacts made by the campers with area pastors. These efforts have not yet succeeded." The full article is here: http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/02/laws-of-physics-homeless-camp-moves/?scrollTo=comment-30445 My own church actually did allow homeless persons to sleep on its property. In fact we built an outdoor structure where several people overnighted regularly. But the church membership eventually decided to remove the structure because it had become "unsightly" and an "attraction" for those who wanted to drink alcohol, fight, etc. Folks from the neighboring building complained about the homeless being there. See the May 2010 article here: http://www.annarbor.com/news/churchs-effort-to-help-homeless-fails-ann-arbor-first-baptist-removing-shelter/ I hope that local churchgoers become active in the Interfaith Coalition for the Homeless and do someth

Sarah Heidt

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:29 p.m.

I was against removing the structure from our church property. They are still allowed to sleep there overnight, but the structure was removed.

Here

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:04 p.m.

"...eventually decided to remove the structure because it had become "unsightly" and an "attraction" for those who wanted to drink alcohol, fight, etc. Folks from the neighboring building complained about the homeless being there." So you evicted them too...and why is there a protest when the neighbors and MDOT feel the same way now?

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:42 p.m.

I wish you the best of luck. I hope your mission to get the camps of people onto church properties is very successful. I think it will provide you with a much needed and deserved insight regarding the needs of "unfortunate" homeless people. Please, let us know what you have learned and experienced when your mission becomes a success.

mkm17

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:16 p.m.

Lemme get this straight. The churches and protestors, who themselves are not offering housing or other assistance, endorse trespassing on SOMEBODY ELSE's property? This is hypocrisy at its best. Why don't the protestors take the CTN trespassers into their homes? Why don't the churches provide vouchers, other assistance, or even cash? Trespassing is trespassing, people.

A2James

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:15 p.m.

I am all for supporting the homeless with the proper resources, which is a clearly outlined and structured plan to get them "back on their feet", instead of infinite welfare. With that being said, it should be mandated that as long as churches enjoy tax-exempt status, they should take a greater part in temporarily housing the homeless. Some already do, but most do not. They have plenty of property (and there are a LOT of churches) in which to do this. And before you start replying, I have been homeless in A2, did not ask for or receive any governmental support or housing, and went from living in a car to starting a career, getting a college degree, living in a house and starting a family. It can be done with hard work, perseverance, and most of all wanting to help yourself instead of waiting for handouts.

djacks24

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:16 p.m.

Congrats James. I also was homeless for a period of time in my life. Living in a car or staying with friends when I could when I was young. Even when I was homeless I never even considered myself as homeless or especially helpless. I knew the importance of having a job and have always kept a job, especially since I also never sought help from the government. Eventually years of continued employment led to renting a few places for many years while going to school and working. Earned my degree(s), got better jobs and then a home.

Treelover

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:01 p.m.

Well said. Too bad all "campers" do not do as you did.

Jack Campbell

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:07 p.m.

Lovely to see all these people supporting CTN who live no where near it. Well, guess what I do! 60+ people camped with no sanitation a block away from a daycare center. Time for CTN to clear out. Hopefully they can set-up shop in the backyards of some of their staunch supporters, see how they feel about it then.

clownfish

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:10 p.m.

From above article" Frank Bertram lives near the camp in Scio Township. "We're advocates for the homeless," he said. "We have a lot. We could lose it at any time. It's the right thing to do to support people who are down. Sweeping them under the rug doesn't solve anything."

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:09 p.m.

After carefully reviewing the conversation, I must agree with you Ron. It definately does seem like it could be poop.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:11 p.m.

And just what is that "noticable smell," Jack? Could it be the waft of liberalism?

Jack Campbell

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:19 p.m.

There is actually a noticeable smell emanating from the area.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:14 p.m.

So Jack, would you please enlighten us as to what the area smells like after these campers have been depositing their feces and urine on the ground? I have yet another idea, how many people that support the camp are willing to help clean up the environment around it? Anyone got a pooper scooper?

Macabre Sunset

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.

It is wonderful that so many church members are willing to take in these unfortunate souls and give them a new start in life. Oh wait.... they aren't, are they? They just want more hand-outs from the government for people who are unwilling to follow the same rules as the rest of us. I guess this is the role of the modern church in society. Gimme, gimme, gimme...

CLOCK

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 9 p.m.

Macabre Sunset your right in what you said. The church is smart by keeping the camp there so the camp will not move in there back yard.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:54 p.m.

Why is Ann Arbor alone expected to solve this problem? OK, the Delonis center is at capacity. So how many shelters have the townships built? Dexter? Saline? Milan?

Hunterjim

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:54 p.m.

I have to agree with the comments that support allowing these "camps" to be set up on property owned by the churches. or...each of these concerned citizens welcome one of the homless into their homes, feed, cloth, and care for them. I believe they will discover who is the freeloader and who is the truly needy.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:15 p.m.

Ha ha ha, you got that right!

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:47 p.m.

From the comments here, Liberals care for their fellow human beings and their solution is to actually do something about it. Conservatives care only for themselves and tell those less fortunate that their problems are their own making and you're on your own.

CLOCK

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 8:59 p.m.

MIXMASTER you must not live near this camp right. If they were in your back yard I bet you would not like it. This has nothing to do with Liberals or Conservatives it about what is right or wrong. Like I said you must not live in the area.

KINGofSKA

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 3:09 p.m.

I can understand and agree where both sides are coming from. But just because he volunteers once a month doesn't make him a slacker. I'd love to volunteer on something I love, but I usually work 5-6 days a week, not everyone has time. So I donate.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:55 p.m.

Once a month? Slacker.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:54 p.m.

And what are you doing on a personal level to help? Or do you just sit by and let things deteriorate? Personally, I volunteer for senior services and work once a month at my church.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:33 p.m.

Easy. I am a Conservative, I care for others, I don't tell those less fortunate that their problems are their own making, and I don't tell them they're on their own. Your generalization has been disproved.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:55 p.m.

Prove it.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:52 p.m.

Fact fail.

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:35 p.m.

Back in the 50's and 60's, there was a movement to change from the institution concept in mental health to community based services. The term used was deinstitutionalization and, at the time it was developed, it was an excellent plan with the necessary support services in place. Those services disappeared through the 80's until they are nearly nonexistant now. People with mental health issues are now often homeless or in our prisons, which continue to grow in size until we are nearly number one in the world as to the percentage of our population which is incarcerated. Many homeless are veterans who suffer from the traumas of our neverending wars. Where are the services our country should be providing to these men and women? The state of our economy is the other manjor factor in homelessness, with many people clamoring to reduce help for the unemplyed even further. While the banks and GM and Ford make huge profits through the bailouts, they continue to ship their jobs to other countries. Where is their responsibility to the public that supports them?

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:01 p.m.

Health Care, mental health services, housing assistance, and employment/job training are all available to vertans that served our country via the VA office at this URL: http://www.va.gov/HOMELESS/index.asp#veterans-tab The VA is sponsoring a VA for Jobs-Job Fair on June 26-28 in Detroit. If vets don't have access to the internet, they can call 1-877-4AID-VET 24/7 anytime. I think your claim that people are clamoring to reduce help for the unemployment is completely false. Unemployment benefits are at an all time high; an unemployed claimant can collect unemployment benefits for the longest amount of time ever in history. Food stamp use is also at an all time high; there are no people starving in the streets.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:57 p.m.

Our political system make no requirement for corporate social responsibility. GM is beholden only to its shareholders and the Almighty Dollar.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:46 p.m.

"While the banks and GM and Ford make huge profits through the bailouts" You mean GM and Chrysler, right? Ford took care of things the right way.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:30 p.m.

Knoz has plenty of land and is just a mile down the road from the current location of CTN. Sounds like a perfect arrangement. I agree with Top Cat (not the first time): put your property where your mouth is.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:25 p.m.

Another thing I would like to point out is take a look at these pictures. You see people "supporting" these camp residents and offering them prayers. They are fighting for their ability to stay in the camp. I have an idea---why don't the members of the church invite these camp residents to come live in their own homes? Surely there are church members that have an extra bedroom, or even a modest couch that these people can sleep on. I mean look at how many church members are standing by their fellow brothers and sisters. How could they allow these unfortunate people to simply go back and live in despair at some camp without proper facilities? Surely the members of the church can bring these people in their homes and offer a warm shower or slice of bread to the very people they care so much for.

djacks24

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:52 p.m.

"They are fighting for their ability to stay in the camp. I have an idea---why don't the members of the church invite these camp residents to come live in their own homes?" Because as long as their is a camp, there is an excuse not to take them into their own homes and they can feel good about themselves as having their place in heaven.

xmo

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:22 p.m.

If there is all of this church support, why don't church members take in these poor homeless people? It seems like the Christian thing to do? How about our Local Politicians also? Come on Rep. Jeff Irwin Step Up! do you want one family or two? You too Mayor Hieftje! City Council, you are compassionate Liberals, please take in some of these people!

CLOCK

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 8:56 p.m.

The churches are smart by giving the camp everything they need to keep them right where they are at. That way the camp will never come close to there city or township.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:46 p.m.

Your comments define your politics. Liberals care for their fellow human beings and their solution is to actually do something about it. Conservative care only for themselves and tell those less fortunate that their problems are their own making and you're on your own.

Michigan Man

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:35 p.m.

xmo - Your comments are far too logical for the Ann Arbor academic liberal elites.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1 p.m.

When I was growing up my parents, neighbors, relatives, etc would ostrasize the homeless. They would tell me, "see what happens when you don't work hard," or they would say "if you don't finish school that is what will happen to you." I used to feel it was terrible and so unfortunate for someone that didn't have a home. As I have grown up, I learned that there are cons out there. Drug addicts, theives, liars, etc. I lived both in the city and in the suburbs and I learned that not everyone is an honest well-meaning person. I know that there are people out there that are truly homeless through no fault of their own, but I also know that many of those honest and unfortunate people use various agencies to get back on their feet. I know that those people can get a bed at places like the Delonis Center, a free breakfast at the local church, perhaps food stamp benefits through DHS, and access to many other resources. My conclusion is that this camp is simply full of renegade homeless people who have decided that they don't want to participate in the rules of society. They don't want to use the Delonis Center or other services because they want things entirely their way with nobody telling them what to do. Well, another great quote my parents gave me was "beggars can't be chooers."

clownfish

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 6:07 p.m.

the Departments of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and Veterans Affairs (VA) estimate that over 67,000 veterans are homeless on any given night. Over the course of a year, approximately twice that many experience homelessness. Only eight percent of the general population can claim veteran status, but nearly one-fifth of the homeless population are veterans.- Source: National Coalition for Homeless Veterans.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:54 p.m.

Jim, if a person is homeless, consuming alcohol should be the least of his or her priorities. In addition, your claim supports the statement I made on here before. There are people that do not want to follow the rules of society--or the Delonis Center. That is their choice, but it comes at their own peril. Personal responsability is something we all need to exercise. People are not put in jail for simply being homeless or ill. They are put in jail after they broke the law. If you break the law, yes, you will likely end up in gain. Jail is a consequence of breaking the law. If the person is mentally ill and chooses not to get help, then the consequence is potentially jail time if they break a law. Once again, personal responsability plays a part in this argument too.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:11 p.m.

"Gramma" Would you be so kind to answer the questions I previously posted? In addition, what communities are offering tax-exempt status for corporations? I heard of tax-breaks to companies that offer jobs, but never heard of a corporation not having to pay for taxes because a community declared they didn't have to. Eventually at some point the company will need to pay taxes. In addition, you claim that compaies move on to the next best deal and leave the homeless and poverty stricken behind. Since when are private companies--built to make a profit--responsible for taking care of the homess and poverty stricken? It's true that some companies may choose to give to charity, but it's at their own goodwill. The purpose of a corporation is usually to earn a profit. Profits are good because they mean the people that work at the corporation can get paid and put food on the table and a roof over their head.

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:54 p.m.

I am 69 yo. My parents were always compassionate to those with even less than we had. They had grown up during the Great Depression and knew how easy it was for a hard working person to become homeless. Most of us work paycheck to paycheck and that is very close to poverty and homeless. Those who work the part time jobs at Walmart, etc often still need some help, such as food stamps just to get by. Corporations now move into communities tax exempt, then thy move whenever they get a "better deal" and leave many homeless and poverty strickern behind.

Jim Osborn

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:42 p.m.

I agree that the CTN is not the correct place, especially if I were a local homeowner. But the crux of the problem is that the Delonis Center is too small, and is usually full. If someone were to have one drink, not be drunk, but have one drink, be able to legally drive, they are still turned away. Then there are the temp. homeless and the mentally ill, who's new home has become the local jail, which is wrong and expensive.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:41 p.m.

How did you come to the understanding that many who are homeless are veterens? You wrote that the services for the homeless are inadequate--How is this camp adequate to meet the needs of the homess when it offers no facilities? You wrote of immoral political leaders. Who would you consider to be an immoral political leader?

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:25 p.m.

The services for the homeless and hungry are not adequate to meet the need. It is my understanding that many who are homeless are veterans of our neverending wars. I have found that drug addicts, theives, liars, etc. exist in every level of our society. They certainly exist among our politicians, who are far from being poor and gain a large portion of their income from "public service."

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:07 p.m.

I would like to point out that this is simply my opinion on the situation. I might be wrong, but that's how I feel about this camp. I think it's terrible that the property rights of people that live near by are being violated. The people that own property are the same people that have worked so hard to buy that property. They are also the same people that pay property taxes and support our community. They most certainly deserve more than getting stuck with an illegal camp near by. There are services for the homeless already established, and the homeless need to follow the rules and use them.

Ron Granger

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:51 p.m.

The cruelty and assumptions in the comments are so sadly typical. They ignore the reality of the situation and our economy. And the irony that you can't camp on land you paid for with your taxes. As the Rev below points out, the vouchers are not a solution. "Because we know, we campers and supporters, that the newly homeless who find no room at our full-beyond-capacity shelters, and who have been stumbling into Camp Take Notice at a steady rate, are not going to disappear from the streets because their predecessors got a housing voucher. The lives of our homeless brothers and sisters will be more vulnerable, more chaotic, more difficult. Camp Take Notice was founded to meet an unmet need. Forty vouchers and a fence will not meet that need."

Brad

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 9:35 p.m.

I didn't "hear" you stepping up, either. I just hear you blathering.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:07 p.m.

I don't see or hear Brad or any of the other anti posters here stepping up to to help anyone. They only put down only those who do.

Brad

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:32 p.m.

So then how many spots for "campers" are you making in your yard? Just as I thought.

grye

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:41 p.m.

These people need concrete alternatives for shelter and assistance address unemployment, health, and mental issues. Shutting down the camp and providing vouchers for limited housing doesn't address the problem as a whole. 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

ArgoC

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:31 p.m.

Would love to know more about what kinds of things would address the problem as a whole, for this group.

Rabid Wolverine

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:06 p.m.

And in this case the government is giving them a legal shelter when they had none....Seems like that was one of the lines that follow that scripture verse, huh?...

clownfish

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:37 p.m.

That is amazing, good news!

Top Cat

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:27 p.m.

The churches need to put their property where their mouth is.

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:07 p.m.

I don't see you stepping up to help. Only knocking those who are.

nekm1

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:54 a.m.

3 most over used words today; interface, robust, and crisis. This isn't a "crisis"..as people have been homeless for centuries. Many by choice. A church should open its doors and allow these folks to habitate on church grounds, not in neighboorhoods.

southyoop

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:17 p.m.

The end result of homelessness may not be a "choice". However, many of the choices that are made by those folks do result in homelessness, i.e. substance abuse. Choices and decisions do have consequences, good or bad.

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:41 p.m.

Yes, people have been homeless for centuries, which says a lot about how seriously the haves take their religions, which almost universally state they should care for the poor. It also shows how "civilization" has progressed?

Intrepidisme

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:12 p.m.

Homelessness is a choice by many? Really? I'd like to see the statistics on that one. We have lost our sense of community and coming together to help those who are down. Greed and fear have taken over and much of the attitude is "kickem when they are down!" Very few have compassion for others and when they do they are made wrong and told what they should do. I find this story very inspiring and see there are still people who care about others. Do for others which you would want done for you in the same situation. The down fall of this country is not the economy, it is lack of community and caring for one another. We are only as strong as our weakest link.

Pilgrim

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:44 a.m.

Homelessness can strike any of us at any time. We cannot afford to ignore this crisis.

CLOCK

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 8:50 p.m.

Your right go ahead and move them to your house. If you want to help them so much.

Madhatter

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 1:31 a.m.

And that's exactly why these churches should open their doors to sheltering these "unfortunate" people. The church members that are praying for these homeless campers in the photo gallery and standing with them should invite them into their homes with welcome arms and offer them food and shelter. Then there would be no doubt that they are sincere about their efforts.

Justavoice

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:42 a.m.

If the churches are so concerned with Camp Take Notice, then they have plenty of property to move the camp to. I think this is a case of beliving in continuing the camp, just not in my backyard. The state has provided temporary places for these people to go, which I think is a good compromise for the short term (For those that truly want the help and aren't just hanging out), but the bottom line, existing in tents on the side of a highway is not an existence. If the churches really cared about continuing the camp, I'm sure they could provide access to church land or a church goers land for continuing the camp in a safe environment.

southyoop

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 4:14 p.m.

Then, when the churches try to accommodate the homeless population on their property or in their facilities, it will still likely be opposed by residents who live close to the area. Something like this happened within the past few years in Green Bay. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/99999999/GPG0101/710050729/Neighbors-voice-opposition-Green-Bay-emergency-shelter-site

mkm17

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:27 p.m.

A great idea. Why don't the churches allow the trespassers to move onto church property?

kulanova

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:55 a.m.

It is not an "existence" for YOU. FOR YOU. Own it and realize that not everyone thinks of comfort, community and freedom the same way that you do.

Real Life

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:14 a.m.

Save Camp Take Notice???!!! I can see organizing to find jobs and homes for people, or in some cases, institutions. But no one should support having a shanty town in America.

Linda

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 10:51 p.m.

mkm, Justavoice, and many other commentators: First Baptist Church in Ann Arbor generously did exactly that several years ago. They provided a place for the homeless to stay on their property. The resulting chaos on the part of residents forced the church to close the camp. If CTN members could relocate to church property, perhaps they would continue the order they have established, but what would the neighbors of the church do?

kulanova

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:30 a.m.

Thanks for reading Question: Does the river of "house-lessness" end once we find "permanent" shelter for those who are currently "house-less?" Thanks for reading

Mikey

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 10:57 a.m.

the private sector non-profit organizations will always provide more effective community services than those "offered" by any government

Brad

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 9:32 p.m.

Hey @Mikey - you might want to check out another aa.com article that talks about how the GOVERNMENT Delonis facility is making additionaly arrangements to help some of those "displaced" by the closure of CTN. http://www.annarbor.com/news/delonis-center-adding-accommodations-for-displaced-camp-take-notice-residents/ I'm still waiting to hear about all those non-profit services being furnished.

Unusual Suspect

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:35 p.m.

Tim, you can't say "boy scout" in Ann Arbor.

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:45 p.m.

Private sector NGO's are largely funded by the government, supposedly because it reduces costs.

Jim Osborn

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:34 p.m.

@ Brad & sigdiamond - Actually, A group of churches, St. Mary amongst them have a rotating shelter program. Then there is regular volunteering at another rotating "soup kitchen" that serves free meals. Contacting Fr. Dan Reim and helping would be more constructive instead of making snide remarks. More constructive would be contacting the mayor and asking why certain city owned buildings that are not being used any longer could not be used for this purpose. Imagine if the voucher money had been used to repair one; instead of being used for such a temp use. The former "yard" on North Main comes to mind.

Michigan Man

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.

Is it time to abandon the thinking that government can solve all of our problems?

sigdiamond

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:28 p.m.

This is great news, Mikey! When can we expect the private sector to swoop in and solve this problem? Is by close of business today a reasonable expectation?

Brad

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:13 a.m.

Which private sector non-profits are providing services to these people? Sounds to me like they are living on PUBLIC land and are going to get vouchers from the government. Sure a church rally and a group hug are great, but that's all I'm seeing from the private sector here.

tim

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 11:07 a.m.

Yea but they are living on government property---- A real homeless should be like a boy scout camp with cabins and bathrooms etc. These folks dodged a bullet last winter with the mild weather. A few years back they found a frozen to death camper off the main street exit.

kulanova

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 10:53 a.m.

These people deserve our support, not our chagrin. They are showing us how to deal with each other in a cooperative manner, to help ourselves better ourselves. The struggle for freedom and self-determination is wrapped up in this struggle. Those of you who believe in "Freedom," "Liberty" etc and who speak against these folks' right to exist and live the way they want to are ****prisoners of your own rhetoric.**** You become prisoners of your own words. You are speaking against yourself. Good luck to you when YOU are down and need a helping hand, a listening ear.

Harm

Sat, Jun 16, 2012 : 2:47 a.m.

SOME of them deserve our support, some don't. Regrettably, sometimes to help those that need support, we need to support those who don't. On the other hand, sometimes the leeches and parasites that attach themselves to 'communities' like Camp Take Notice make it too expensive to support properly.

Madhatter

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 5:58 p.m.

"...deal with each other in a cooperative manner." Really? How is it being cooperative when these campers are contaminating the environment with feces and urine? How is it cooperating when housing assistance and other benefits are offered to them and they refuse and show no comprimise? What about the freedom of the property owners to enjoy the fruits of their labor? Instead they have to smell the waft of decomposing human waste--all because someone feels entitled to using public land as their personal toilet. Talk about dumping on the taxpayer!

ArgoC

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:30 p.m.

chagrin?

mixmaster

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:09 p.m.

Public land.

Rabid Wolverine

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:02 p.m.

Gramma, How? By taking what they want (land) in the name of their cause?

Gramma

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 1:47 p.m.

The CTN community is working in the same way as early Christian communities.

nekm1

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 12:50 p.m.

yes, and 60 years of the Great American Experiment called the social safety net has worked really well! Not! Ever been to Toronto (Canada the great socialist example) and see the homeless street people everywhere? Even in Canada there are homeless people. They exist, because they exist! People die because they do! Why do people like you think if we put everyone in a protective bubble, that somehow they will be better for it? You, YOU, have the warped thinking.

Arboriginal

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 10:38 a.m.

Gee......the churches have all of that property that is tax free. Seems pretty simple to me!

jns131

Mon, Jun 18, 2012 : 4:59 p.m.

Since churches have a lot of space? Let them take care of the ones who are displaced. Isn't that what the church is for?

Treelover

Fri, Jun 15, 2012 : 2:56 p.m.

Yes...long overdue!!

Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

© 2013 MLive Media Group All rights reserved (About Us). The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of MLive Media Group