Is it responsible for health care workers to decline flu jabs?
St. Joseph Mercy and University of Michigan health systems require employees to receive vaccines for the flu and whooping cough under policies that began in 2010.
Lon Horwedel | AnnArbor.com
Are health care workers who decline to receive a flu vaccination irresponsible?
An article in Scientific American asked that question recently, noting that more than one-third of U.S. health care workers do not receive a flu vaccination, according to an August report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Local health care workers who refuse both the flu and whooping cough jabs are putting their jobs at risk under policies that began in 2010. Health system officials from the University of Michigan and St. Joseph Mercy hospitals say the policies protect patients.
At St. Joseph Mercy hospitals, all employees will receive a mandatory flu and whooping cough jabs under a policy that went into effect in 2010.
The employees risk losing their job if they refuse to comply, although last flu season, about 50 people were allowed to opt out of the vaccinations for medical reasons, said Lauren Jones, spokesperson for St. Joseph Mercy Health System.
Jones said a handful of individuals lost their jobs for refusing to comply with the new policy but was not immediately able to provide a number.
Pertussis is a respiratory disease commonly called whooping cough.
Washtenaw County had the highest number of whooping cough cases of all 83 counties in Michigan in 2010. Of 1,564 cases reported to the Michigan Department of Community Health, 233 originated from Washtenaw County.
About 98 percent of 6,000 workers at the health system’s Ann Arbor, Saline and Livingston locations complied with the new policy last year, Jones said.
At the University of Michigan Health System, employees who refuse a jab will again have to wear a mask during flu season under a policy that began in 2010.
Employees who don’t receive a vaccination and then refuse to wear a mask can lose their jobs. A separate policy that began in 2010 also requires all UMHS employees to receive whooping cough vaccine.
Vaccinations are free to employees at both St. Joe's and U-M.
Are workers who fight or refuse these vaccines irresponsible? Why should, or shouldn’t, health care workers get their yearly vaccines for flu or whooping cough? Take our poll and leave a comment below.
Comments
aawolve
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 5:02 p.m.
At 32, I've been sick once in my adult life. It was immediately following the only flu shot I've ever had.
James
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 3:46 p.m.
I read all of this "mercury" talk and it makes me laugh... It is insignificant amounts... I mean really... If I told you that the Sun not only gave you vitamin D but small amounts of radiation would you boycott it as well?
Skyjockey43
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 10:58 a.m.
Look this is very simple. This is not a police state. No armed troops are holding you down and forcing you to take a flu shot. If you're really that afraid of a vaccination. (perhaps due to the extensive research compiled by that intellectual scientific powerhouse Jenny McCarthy), then you have the absolute freedom to refuse it. The hospital also has the absolute freedom not to employ you. I'd also go so far as to say the hospital has an absolute moral, ethical, and legal responsibility to protect sick patients from needless exposure to the influenza virus on already stressed immune systems. Your rights end at my, and my loved one's safety. Additionally, if you're seeking medical advice from YouTube, then let me tell you, I can offer you riches beyond your wildest dreams as an Amway product specialist.
G. Orwell
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:06 a.m.
Maybe it is so simple and obvious, some people just do not get it. Mercury in vaccines bad. Inject it into humans, bad. I'd take a flu over brain damage any day. Cancer viruses in vaccines bad. Inject it into humans, bad. I'd take a flu over cancer any day.
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 1:45 a.m.
I also think it's safe and fair to say that the medical community at large has no one and nothing to blame but itself for the fact that a large portion of the population has become intensely mistrustful of it. Their abject failure at keeping obvious conflicts of interest, money and politics from tainting their research and recommendations is directly responsible for their overall lack of credibility today. Before I even read a study, I go straight to the end, to see how many authors are receiving money from major pharmaceutical companies. These studies are routinely presented with no up-front acknowledgment of the blaring conflicts of interest. The medical community at large has prostituted itself, and now everything they say and do is suspect, even to people who want to believe them.
YpsiVeteran
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 1:27 a.m.
As a conscientious parent, I've read quite a bit, from reputable sources, on both sides of the issue. While I've always been skeptical of the vaccination/autism claims, I'm also an intensely reluctant participant in the childhood vaccination program as it exists today in this country. I find it impossible to trust sources like the American Academy of Pediatrics, the board of which is heavily loaded with Big-Pharma connected medical professionals, and I have a hard time tolerating pediatricians who snort in disgust at any question about the advisability of so many shots at one time, so early in life. One does not have to be some sort of paranoid freak to have serious concerns about the matter. This article (/<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1079259/A-vaccine-given-babies-increase-risk-childhood-asthma.html)" rel='nofollow'>www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1079259/A-vaccine-given-babies-increase-risk-childhood-asthma.html)</a> summarizes just one study, done at the University of Manitoba, on more than 11,000 children, who were followed for a number of years (I've also read the actual study). The study found a 50% difference in childhood asthma rates between kids who rec'd their first dose of DTP vaccine at 2 months and kids who didn't get the first does till 4 months. 50%. Lost in all this all-or-nothing rhetoric about vaccines is any reasonable discussion of the possibility (in my opinion probability), that while individual vaccines are worthwhile and generally safe, there is a serious problem with the timing and the combinations of shots. I'd like to hear what some of the professionals who have posted on this thread have to say about the Manitoba study, and the general point (and I'm aware that the DTP has been replaced by DTaP).
teepartidude
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:14 p.m.
Calm down folks, this is just typical aa.com ire-inducing clickbait. "Flu vaccine" as a pressing concern is completely interchangeable any of the following pressing concerns: 1. panhandlers on State Street 2. teachers who are paid for doing their jobs 3. pedestrians who cross streets 4. German public artists 5. split-rail fence haters 6. Baby goose killers
julieswhimsies
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:58 p.m.
It's not just irresponsible...It's just plain stupid.
Smart Logic
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:53 p.m.
In principle I would normally side with the "let me make my own healthcare decisions" but do not in this case, at least for certain healthcare professionals. There are certain potentially negative elements inherent to every chosen profession. when an individual chooses to go into a specific profession (e.g. healthcare) they choose to accept the responsibilities, benefits, and consequences associated with it. Contracting the flu may be the difference between life and death with some patients, and the healthcare professionals serving these patients have a responsibility to minimize those risks. I refer you to the [modern] Hippocratic Oath: "I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure."
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:28 p.m.
Keep your opinions off my body. That said, all this convoluted banter isn't going to change a thing and there will still be those who opt out. Meanwhile, you'll still be relying on them for care. They're the educated professionals, not you. Get over it.
Peregrine
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:19 a.m.
Don't your mother's opinions about vaccines affect the bodies of others given she's in the healthcare profession?
Goober
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:12 p.m.
It is a shame that great levels of emotion are being introduced when others are attempting to voice their opinions. Hopefully tolerance and understanding are still part of all class lessons.
Smart Logic
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:56 p.m.
Incidentally, some of us on here may just be those educated healthcare professionals and believe taking reasonable efforts toward prevention of diseases is the ethical path.
Mike Martin
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:53 p.m.
I'm curious about why all of your posts need to include condescending remarks about other people's posts?
Jessie
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:35 p.m.
Sometimes I wonder how many people who are so against this vaccine have actually HAD the flu. Influenza and the common cold have some very similar symptoms, sometimes so similar that only a test can tell the difference. People often get a bad cold, miss a day or two of work, and say "I had a touch of the flu". I used to say that, but then I finally got the flu. It doesn't touch you, it knocks you the @#$^ out. I missed DAYS of work, and I wanted to either get better or die, I didn't really care which. Once I got it, I was so surprised by the difference between what I had just experienced and what I always flippantly called "the flu", that I finally was curious enough about the difference between colds and flu to actually go read about them, and I've been getting the shots ever since. If someone says they got the flu several times in a season, they've been getting colds. Influenza doesn't mess around like that.
julieswhimsies
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 7:55 p.m.
I completely agree, Jessie. I had the flu about 15 years ago...with temps up to 105. I was finally hospitalized. I eventually developed viral encephalitis. The flu is serious. If you get it you WILL know it! It will knock you off your feet for days. I have been getting the flu shot since they first came out. I haven't had the flu once, since then.
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:31 p.m.
In which case, those with the flu probably would call off of work at the hospital. Unless they've been irresponsible with their t/o, which is another story entirely. You made the best choice for you based off of your own experience and knowledge. Nurses, doctors and others have the right to do the same and that is perfectly okay.
Tom Teague
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:16 p.m.
My thoughts exactly Jessie. The flu is seven- to ten-days of utter misery. After a bout of the Real McCoy in 2003 I'm now a happy recipient of annual flu shots.
L. C. Burgundy
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:05 p.m.
Very true - when you get an actual strain of influenza, you are knocked flat on your back a week. It's difficult to stay hydrated when everything just shoots right back out of any random orifice, too!
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5 p.m.
My mother works at St. Joes and she always ops out of the flu shots. She does this because she is a firm believer that if the flu is going to take her down, then she clearly was not fit enough to continue living anyway because if you can't withstand the flu sooner or later something will take you out. She does not go to work while she is sick, however, which happens very rarely as her immune system has always been great. I also have several friends who work in other health care locations in and around Ann Arbor that feel the same way. If someone coughs on you in one room and you walk into the next room, that could get someone sick and expose them to other strains of diseases, but there is no policy in place to completely sanitize your scrubs... Besides, as it happened the past two years in some places here in Michigan, people who had received the flu shot later were informed that it was formulated for the wrong strain and they would have to get the shot again. To test for swine flu, you had to take a swab in the back of the throat and make someone cough while the swab was deep in their mouth. Essentially, my mother had to endure being directly coughed on in order accurately to perform the test, she did not get sick though there were a couple cases that were positive, but while her body may not have harbored the bacteria, I am sure they clung to her after she was coughed on before she went into the next room. Generally, to opt out of the shots, you have to sign a waiver and that's the extent of it. Move along. Perhaps if you want to help eliminate their student debt, you have the right to make the call for them, otherwise, they put themselves in debt to get through school, passed extensive training and education that the common man did not have, and are completely competent to make their own decisions regarding their flu shots... A similarly preposterous notion to consider: mandatory abortions for all persons under 18.
julieswhimsies
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 7:57 p.m.
I agree, L.C. I completely agree.
L. C. Burgundy
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:08 p.m.
See, this is the problem with this attitude about vaccines: it affects more than just the single person who refuses a vaccine. Your mother has basically decided to expose everybody else to the flu too because of her fatalistic attitude. Does she refuse to wash her hands too?
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:56 p.m.
@Meg Allow me to rebut your reply to me. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11CpPtgEM0&feature=youtube_gdata_player" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11CpPtgEM0&feature=youtube_gdata_player</a>
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:40 p.m.
Uh-oh, we should really be concerned if the video you included is true and accurate. Children working in hospitals, GASP! I'm guessing these nurses have already had their childhood vaccines, though I may be wrong.
RuralMom
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.
See here's my problem with this, I had a loved one who was immunized for the flu and pneumonia who ended up at St.Joe's last winter. They did NOT follow the procedures like they enforced the family too, meaning gowning up, face mask, etc, they were just going patient to patient - (yes washing their hands in between). They presented themselves as giving a very mixed message all the way around.
Sam Smith
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:20 p.m.
St. Joe's mandates employees to receive the vaccine and that's why they don't have to mask, etc. They follow health precautions for every patient and strict isolation for identified patients. Was your family vaccinated? Was there another reason for strict precautions?
Meg
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to move this to the main thread, since there are so many dangerous falsehoods about vaccination being spread in these comments: G. Orwell: I'm not really sure where to begin with your ridiculous screed against a very effective public health measure. Let's start with the obvious: mercury. Thimerosal was removed from all vaccines except the multi dose flu vaccine a decade ago. Flu vaccine is also available in single-dose, non-thimerosal-containing versions. Check that one off your paranoia list. Autism: There is no evidence linking vaccination with autism. None. The Wakefield study, which started this particular false rumor, was of poor scientific design, contains actually falsified data, and was performed by a man with a financial incentive to establish such a link -- who, incidentally, has since lost his license to practice over that case. Check that off your list too. Third, vaccination production does not profit pharmaceutical companies in comparison to things like on-patent SSRIs or statins. And before you start in on the doctors making money, rest easy -- vaccination isn't a moneymaker for clinics either. There is no evidence whatsoever linking SIDS or allergies to vaccination. There is possibly a slightly increased risk of Guillain-Barre(check your spelling of it) with some vaccines, but the absolute numbers remain so low that the risk of complications from the flu is still higher than the risk of GBS. I would love to see reputable evidence that there are clinically-significant levels of aluminum and formaldehyde. "Clinically-significant" is the crucial part. Finally, if you trust vitamin D to solve all the needs of your immune system, do you ever ask yourself why, when the US had a largely agrarian community that received plenty of vitamin D from the sun, vaccine-preventable diseases caused so much death and disability?
julieswhimsies
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 8:02 p.m.
Laurel. All I can say to you is that you have the arrogance of youth. Hopefully, one day that arrogance will turn into wisdom.
James
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.
I like your style Laurel... Letting them have it!
Meg
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:55 p.m.
@polyjuce[sic]123: Very basic logic: It's your job to prove that vaccines do cause the things they're accused of. A negative cannot be proven. But nice try.
dotdash
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:34 a.m.
Since we're being sticklers, it's "you're" not "your", polyjuice. Meg and Laurel, nice job. Thanks.
Polyjuce123
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.
@ Laurel Were getting quite adrift from topic here but I think your confused on what the word "research" means. All of those sources you left would not be acceptable at the professional level, let alone a higher level writing course. If a medical professional left a source such as "cnn.com" or"mystery blog" in a journal their career would be over. A "scholastic" source,(hopefully peer reviewed) is usually found in a respected journal, in this instance regarding vaccinations I would probably look into JAMA. Furthermore, I would want to find an article that was authored by a specialist who worked with pediatrics or was a researcher in a vaccination development environment. A "source" is just that, it means you are going to the very beginning, the author who actually developed the vaccination, the authority on the matter. Then we can move on to critically analyze its validity based on their findings. I don't mean to be a stickler on the technical things about research but its sad to see the masses take wikipedia or xyz article as "authoritative" information when they are written by part time bloggers with usually zero education on the matter. Do I know everything? No, but when it comes to statistics and research I hope the 8 years I spent in school studying it paid off :)
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:21 p.m.
If that's how you feel, you should be very frightened because I am in college and am a 4.0 honor student and that's not at community college, love. Perhaps you should be more clear as to the kinds of sources you deem reputable and exactly what you're looking for, oh high and mighty one. I'd like to see your sources and the Wakefield study barely qualifies considering the sample size was 12, hardly representative of any kind of population. Besitos amigitos, porque algo que tu no sabes. jejeje
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:17 p.m.
Clearly you didn't review all of my sources as some were reports of research done. Really, you can't find any yourself??
Polyjuce123
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:45 p.m.
@ Laurel I hope your not a college graduate or attending college, if I were your professor and you were submitting a rebuttal to prove that vaccinations didn't cause complications and left those sources I would send you back to writing 101. A real case would require you to find professionally authored documents say by...tenured doctors or researchers who have completed lengthy studies regarding the side affects of various vaccinations. That means...many years of trials and documentation. Next time, try not being so lazy and actually provide something that is worthy of note.
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 6:08 p.m.
It's not hard to do the research yourself, but if you're that lazy and just want info spoon-fed, then that illustrates the problem here. <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm</a> <a href="http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228" rel='nofollow'>http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228</a> <a href="http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm</a> <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/06/autism.vaccines/index.html" rel='nofollow'>http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/06/autism.vaccines/index.html</a> <a href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/01/05/andrew-wakefield-the-autism-vaccine-link-and-deliberate-fraud/" rel='nofollow'>http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/01/05/andrew-wakefield-the-autism-vaccine-link-and-deliberate-fraud/</a> <a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2011/09/12/anti-vaccine-activists-apparently-immune-to-science/" rel='nofollow'>http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2011/09/12/anti-vaccine-activists-apparently-immune-to-science/</a> <a href="http://www.vaccineethics.org/issue_briefs/industry.php" rel='nofollow'>http://www.vaccineethics.org/issue_briefs/industry.php</a> <a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/01/12/132857528/journal-claims-profit-motive-helped-fuel-autism-vaccine-scare" rel='nofollow'>http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/01/12/132857528/journal-claims-profit-motive-helped-fuel-autism-vaccine-scare</a> <a href="http://news.discovery.com/human/anti-vaccine-doctor-planned-to-profit-from-scare.html" rel='nofollow'>http://news.discovery.com/human/anti-vaccine-doctor-planned-to-profit-from-scare.html</a> <a href="http://www.sids.org/nmontharticle.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.sids.org/nmontharticle.htm</a> <a href="http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990705002005" rel='nofollow'>http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990705002005</a> That took me 5 minutes to compile for you. In the future, perhaps you can take the initiative to educate yourself with credible sources and learn to tell the difference between propagandist material and fact.
Polyjuce123
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:53 p.m.
Meg with your apparent skills and abilities of being the head of the internal wage police for the nurses, I'm sure you could give us at least one link to validate your claims made here? You use the word evidence quite a bit here but yet we don't have on link?
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:48 p.m.
Such a valiant effort at educating the ignorant masses, Meg and quite well said. The only problem is that people who will read this and agree are those with brains who already agree and have the knowledge within themselves to tell the difference between propagandist hype for fear-mongering and real scientific evidence. Those who are still so skeptical will remain so and doubt everything you've said without doing one iota of research, meanwhile they'll probably be pigging out on various processed junk foods or fast foods, concerned with what others are putting into their bodies without giving thought to what they're doing to themselves. But it's okay, they'll die off from some obesity related complication and their children will get picked off by any one of the primitive diseases they weren't vaccinated for. Meanwhile, survival of the fittest will prevail and another Darwin Award can be issued.
jcj
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:48 p.m.
Why no link to essentially the same story from last year? That way we could just read the old comments instead of having to post new ones for the advertisers.
rm1135
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:41 p.m.
I work in one of these hospitals and I do agree that if you have direct patient contact it is important to be vaccinated. However I am one of hundreds of employess who do not have any patient contact who are forced to be vaccinated. That is where I have an issue. I don't like that you either get vaccinated or you wear a mask even though you do not see any patients, or you lose your job. That is too much control.
McDrew
Wed, Oct 5, 2011 : 3:19 a.m.
I also work in one of these systems in a primarily non-patient-contact role, but I use the same elevators, and handrails, and doorknobs, and vending machines, and bathrooms, as the people who do see patients, so I do think it's in their best interest to be vaccinated. (And mine!)
LarryJ
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:32 p.m.
The effectiveness of vaccines for preventing influenza varies from season to season but averages 80% (Jefferson TO et al, Cocharane Database Syste REv 2007, CD001269). G. Orwell, just about every thing you say is a bunch of hooey. Andrew Wakefield, who propagated the myth that mercury in vaccines is a cause of autism, was found to have fabricated his research. He had a financial interest in a competing product. He has been stripped of his license to practice medicine. I am strongly in favor of flu vaccination for healthworkers. I already got mine. This is a relatively cheap and effective way of making our hospitals and clinics safe and reducing flu transmission. Larry, MD
Meg
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 5:21 p.m.
Laurel, there are those of us with a kid with autism who don't consider ourselves parenting "inferior" children. My kid is exactly the child he was supposed to be -- and, incidentally, unvaccinated at the time of his diagnosis. While I do agree that there is a strong genetic component to autism, there's also a huge amount of ableism reflected in your post.
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 5:57 p.m.
For the Fear-Mongers: The real indicator of Autism and other PDD's (pervasive developmental disorders) in a child is the quality of the DNA the child receives, a large contributor is the natural age of the conceiving parents. That poses the largest risk, not vaccines. I wonder if this is something parents consider before they go through several rounds of IVF at 40, but I guess it's easier to blame someone else than admit to yourself that you may have made a mistake and have passed on inferior genes.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:40 p.m.
That is called a smear campaign against those that tell the truth.
Goober
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:22 p.m.
Another lengthy article says about Wakefield - "the General Medical Council found in January 2010 that Wakefield had committed ethical violations — subjecting developmentally disabled children to unnecessary invasive procedures, mishandling funds and failing to disclose conflicts of interest "
Goober
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
I just read some of this information on the internet and it seems that he has been vindicated. So who is correct? One article says - "fourteen months before Dr Wakefield's paper was published, two other researchers -- Professor Walker-Smith and Dr Amar Dhillon -- independently documented the same problems in these children, including symptoms of autism "
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 3:35 p.m.
Sorry doc. Dr. Wakefield has been fully vindicated. Numerous other research institutions have repeated and replicated Dr. Wakefield's study. It has come out that prior research existed score Dr. Wakefield published his study. I am surprised you fell for the hit piece on Dr. Wakefiled by Brian Dearing.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:41 p.m.
Sorry doc. You have been mislead by the controlled media. The hit piece on Dr. Wakefield was an outright lie and other research institutions have repeated and replicate Dr. Wakefild's research. Dr. Wakefield has been fully vindicated. Look it up. I am surprised you, an MD, fell for the lie.
Carole
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:58 p.m.
I received one flu shot in my entire life -- and received it only because I was working at a pre-school and it was required. I was sick most of the winter. Have not had one since, and while most of my friends and co-workers seem to be down considerably with the flu (they all had the shot), thankfully, I have not. Shots should be a choice. Washing your hands frequently is the way to go.
spm
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:40 p.m.
Carole, you were sick because you were around children most of the winter who gave you illnesses that weren't covered by the vaccine. If you hadn't had it most likely you still would have been ill.
Laurel
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 9:24 p.m.
Heaven forbid someone exercise their right to free speech. Carole has a right to post her experience, and apparently you all have the ignorant right to attack her for it. Only your comments to her illustrate the type of person you are considering she didn't cut into anyone's character or say anything degrading or demoralizing. Unless you're the doctors and nurses, get over it because it doesn't apply to you. And guess what?? Your mere closeminded opinions aren't gonna change a damn thing and there will still be those who don't get the shot, gasp! Now we're going to be asking medical professionals if they've had their flu shot instead of focusing on where they went to school and determining how educated they are.
Goober
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 7:47 p.m.
Disney World and abundant sunshine does wonders for the soul.
Terri
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:20 p.m.
jns, what are Florida's magical healing properties, exactly? I've never heard of that.
jns131
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:07 p.m.
I never get a flu shot and I have no problems. Husband went and got one. He got sick and never recovered until June. Almost ended up visiting Florida just to get healthy again. Vaccines are worrisome. Think and then decide.
craigjjs
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:12 p.m.
Well, by all means lets just not get flu shots or require health care workers to get flu shots because one poster on the Internet didn't like her experience. Let's just ignore decades of research and experience in favor of anonymous Internet postings.
dotdash
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:43 p.m.
Health care workers have both more contact with people who have infectious diseases and they have more opportunity to pass them along to others who may have depressed immune systems. So it is definitely more important for them to to immunized than workers in other fields. But I think the article says 98% do, so it sounds as if they comply very well. That puts them waaaaay ahead of the proportion of people who wash their hands after using the restroom, for instance.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:36 p.m.
Google "Dr. Maurice Hiileman + Merck." In a recorded conversation, Merck scientist, Dr.Hilleman, admits there are cancer viruses in vaccines. Not only that, they laugh about it when Dr. Hilleman states that it will give people cancer. Do you still want forced vaccinations? <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU&feature=youtube_gdata_player" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU&feature=youtube_gdata_player</a>
Meg
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:36 p.m.
There isn't evidence that the cancer rate has "drastically decreased". Certain cancers have decreased, and the mortality rate has decreased, but cancer as a group of illnesses is not "drastically decreased". Also, I'm not entirely clear on what your point is: That a vaccine given decades ago may have been contaminated with a simian virus due to our then-limited knowledge of vaccine production? Or is there another that I'm missing?
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:26 p.m.
Here is the CDC, confirming what Dr. Hilleman claimed. That cancer virus, SV40, was in the polio vaccine given to millions of people. What more evidence do you want? I guarantee that the virus was deliberately added. Cancer rate has drastically increase over the past few decades. I wonder why. <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/archive/polio_and_cancer_factsheet.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/archive/polio_and_cancer_factsheet.htm</a>
Elaine F. Owsley
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.
You apparently believe anything you read on the internet.
Rork Kuick
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:32 p.m.
Link to a 10 minute youtube video? Are you joking?
Jhonny
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:30 p.m.
Why would anyone not get it. Every doctor I know reccomends them except for very special cases. Doctors have studied medicine for 15- 20 years, I have not. What would make me think I would know better than them.
marqueA2
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 12:24 p.m.
You live in your skin, they do not. Decide for yourself what you allow into your body.
Michigan Man
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:47 p.m.
Gramma = One minor technical correction - Medical Doctors (MD) are not human - they are like God and should be treated as such - I am surprised in your interactions with MD's they have not reinforced this self-appointed conviction?
craigjjs
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:08 p.m.
While I tend to be skeptical by nature, including of doctors, when there is a general consensus among doctors that immunizations are beneficial, I will trust their judgment. Just because doctors are human, they are not necessarily wrong.
Gramma
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:42 p.m.
Doctors are also human. Patients have the right to ask questions and to question the recommendations of a doctor. They also have the right to a second opinion.
Bogie
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:19 p.m.
My grandmother contracted the flu, while in a hospital, and it did contribute to her demise. There was a serious outbreak of the flu in her area, so their were many patients being treated for the virus. I do not know how an immunized healthcare worker, could have prevented her from this contraction. It wasn't the workers, but the sterilization of the hospital, that was the problem. You don't have to force people to take needles-CLEAN, INSTEAD! Can anyone tell me how effective these flu vaccines are? It seems, every year the elderly march down to rite aid, and (someone) pay for one of these shots. Then we have a breakout of the flu, and the medical field say, that the vaccine was for a different strain. Seems to me, we spend a lot of money and time hearing," Without (blank), it could have been worse."
jns131
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:04 p.m.
The flu shot is just another word for carrier. You can't get it...maybe...but you can certainly give it to someone else. Read the facts and then decide.
Jhonny
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:43 p.m.
Its hit and miss. They guess what the big flu will be a year from the time of the shot. They tend to look at China to see what flu they are getting. My insurance picks mine up. Why not get one. It doesn't hurt.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:14 p.m.
No one should be forced or coerced to be vaccinated. First off, vaccines are not that effective. If at all. Second, vaccines are dangerous because they are loaded with toxins (mercury, fomaldehyde, aluminum and even cancer viruses). Third, taking high doses of vitamin D is far safer, cheaper and more effective. Most of the vaccination programs are to enrich Big Pharma. There is now solid evidence vaccines are causing autism, infant death syndrome, allergies, Guillaine- Burre, etc. Our government has quietly paid out millions to those affected by vaccines.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
@Meg It's YouTube but look and listen to the content. It's channel 7 Investigative Report. Steve Wilson is the reporter that exposed the growth hormone in milk that has been linked to cancer. He was fired by Fox News over it. Thanks to him, growth hormones are not used anymore.
L. C. Burgundy
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
jns, the only "evidence" that vaccinations caused autism (a rather silly claim on its face) was fabricated in false patient histories by a British doctor who was paid to find such a link by a group of trial lawyers hoping to sue vaccine manufacturers. You might as well keep your child away from tigers - they are just as likely to have a link to autism as vaccines. Vaccines are the single best public health intervention in the last 100 years, along with general sanitation.
Meg
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:17 p.m.
jns: Varicella is always a live vaccine. It's also not given until 12 months. It's fine to research and make an informed decision, but that needs to be an informed decision. G. Orwell: Where I come from (and study), YouTube is not research. In fact, I'm not sure it's "research" anywhere on the planet.
jns131
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:03 p.m.
This is another reason why we held off vaccinating ours until age 5 and getting the final rounds. Autism is out of control and I believe vaccines are still responsible. I told our ped not to give the live virus chicken pox, but the dead one so ours wouldn't get chicken pox. Guess what? Age 6 months and had a cause of chicken pox. We refused to let our get the rest of the series. Who knows what would have happened if we went thru with the rest. Vaccines are not full proof. I agree with this poster, read the facts if you want to live.
G. Orwell
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:36 p.m.
It is not bizarre if you look at the evidence. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11CpPtgEM0&NR=1" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11CpPtgEM0&NR=1</a>
Meg
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:09 p.m.
Sadly, it's actually "performed". Not "perfumed". Though that would be much more pleasant. Stupid autocorrect! It's not even a funny autocorrect!
craigjjs
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 1:05 p.m.
Meg - Great response. The original post is so bizarre I am not certain it is even a serious post.
Meg
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.
I'm not really sure where to begin with your ridiculous screed against a very effective public health measure. Let's start with the obvious: mercury. Thimerosal was removed from all vaccines except the multi dose flu vaccine a decade ago. Flu vaccine is also available in single-dose, non-thimerosal-containing versions. Check that one off your paranoia list. Autism: There is no evidence linking vaccination with autism. None. The Wakefield study, which started this particular false rumor, was of poor scientific design, contains actually falsified data, and was perfumed by a man with a financial incentive to establish such a link -- who, incidentally, has since lost his license to practice over that case. Check that off your list too. Third, vaccination production does not profit pharmaceutical companies in comparison to things like on-patent SSRIs or statins. And before you start in on the doctors making money, rest easy -- vaccination isn't a moneymaker for clinics either. There is no evidence whatsoever linking SIDS or allergies to vaccination. There is possibly a slightly increased risk of Guillain-Barre(check your spelling of it) with some vaccines, but the absolute numbers remain so low that the risk of complications from the flu is still higher than the risk of GBS. I would love to see reputable evidence that there are clinically-significant levels of aluminum and formaldehyde. "Clinically-significant" is the crucial part. Finally, if you trust vitamin D to solve all the needs of your immune system, do you ever ask yourself why, when the US had a largely agrarian community that received plenty of vitamin D from the sun, vaccine-preventable diseases caused so much death and disability?
KJMClark
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 11:53 a.m.
They probably should be given a choice - get a free immunization, wear a n95 or better mask if they're sick, or expect to be sent home without pay for 10 days if they come to work showing signs of the flu without protecting patients. Of course, hospitals and doctor's offices should probably isolate contagious patients as soon as they walk in the door. Another good reason to avoid going to the doctor, along with MRSA. And I'm at home sick today. If you're sick, contagious, and have sick leave, you're supposed to stay home. That's what sick leave is for.
Gramma
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 11:30 a.m.
My knee jerk reaction is to say yes. However, the same people who are the patients in this setting interact with school personel, bus drivers, store clerks, librarians, etc. forever. These same patients are free to choose whether or not they get these vaccinations and they expose health workers and all other persons they come in contact with. I do believe that health care workers should wear masks if not vaccinated. I am an advocate of vaccinations for communicable diseases for all persons unless medically contraindicated.
MDavid
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:59 a.m.
Immunization against highly virulent communicable diseases with effective vaccines should be a condition of employment in a health care system.
Goober
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 10:53 a.m.
Health care workers must do all that is possible to insure that any and all patients are not exposed to anything more than what they have been already. On the other hand, there has to be a limit on this never ending quest to extend life at any cost and price. Why would I think that the nurse I met for an hour or so in an emergency room, for example gave me the flu versus my fellow co-workers? As we look around the world, the cost of health care is increasing at an escalating rate. It has become a major point of contention in most contract negotiations. Many cannot afford the cost of health care. Many have to make life decisions to spend themselves into bankruptcy to save a loved one. Society will be wrestling with this problem for generations to come. Extending our lives has come at a tremendous cost to societies around the world.
Peregrine
Tue, Oct 4, 2011 : 2:11 a.m.
Also, health care workers are more likely to spend time with people diminished immune systems.
snark12
Mon, Oct 3, 2011 : 2:57 p.m.
The point is that the nurse will spend all day around sick people, including a lot of flu victims, so she's much more likely to get sick and pass it on to you than your co-workers.