Ann Arbor skate park supporters try to lower fund-raising barriers
Thirteen-year-old Sam Saalberg, right, and other members of the Ann Arbor Skatepark Street Team, attended Monday night's Ann Arbor City Council meeting to show their support for the Ann Arbor Skatepark initiative.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"Like downtown, they made it illegal to skate on the streets there or anywhere else, so there's really no safe, fun place to skate," said Saalberg, one of several youth members of a street team supporting the construction of a skate park at Veterans Memorial Park.
His mother, Sandy Williams, says regular trips to skate parks in Farmington Hills, Brighton, Grand Rapids and Sterling Heights are the norm.
"Parents are getting really frustrated with having to drive their kids out of town all the time to visit other skate parks," she said. "It would be really nice to let them be able to stay in town and not have us waste the gas and figure out rides there and back, because they're not nearby."
Area skateboarding enthusiasts have been working for a few years now on raising money to develop a skate park on a 30,000-square-foot section of Veterans Memorial Park. Supporters appeared before the Ann Arbor City Council this week to provide an update on their efforts.
Scott Rosencrans, project liaison for the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark, said it's a common misconception that skate parks are somehow unsafe compared to other sports, and he believes that's hindered the group's ability to raise funds.
"Safety is probably the No. 1 concern we hear from people as we go through the community and talk about the amenity," he said. "It's no surprise — we don't have a skate park here, so people are not as familiar with the sport, and it is kind of edgy, so people are concerned."
The Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark officially became a nonprofit corporation on Sept. 14, 2010. That's when fundraising shifted into high gear, but the group has struggled to raise the $1 million it needs for the project.
Scott Rosencrans, project liaison for the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark, gave a presentation on the safety and accessibility aspects of skate parks before the Ann Arbor City Council. He was joined by Linda Briggs from the Ann Arbor Commission on Disability Issues.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"We continue to work on individual gifts and pledges," she said. "If everyone in Washtenaw County that had a child, grandson, granddaughter, or niece or nephew that liked skateboarding would donate $30 to our cause, we estimate we could raise another $60,000."
The project recently received a $5,000 boost from the Tony Hawk Foundation, in addition to $1,500 from Bank of Ann Arbor's Sweet 15 Local Charity Drive. The Ann Arbor Skatepark Street Team also held a bake sale recently at Arbor Brewing Co. that raised about $900.
So far, the city hasn't committed any funds directly to the project, but it did agree earlier this year to help the skate park group apply for government grants. The city now is seeking $300,000 in grant funding from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and Environment and expects to hear back on its application by November.
Rosencrans said the group is moving aggressively toward a goal of making sure it has $100,000 in the bank before it releases a request for proposals on the project. Ideally, he said, the group would like to have all the funding it needs lined up by Jan. 1.
"Now is crunch time and now is when we need support from the private community, because the government entities are doing what they can, but it's a $1 million budget we project and there's no guarantee we'll get grants," Rosencrans said.
An agreement between the city and the skate park group from December 2008 states that construction must commence by Jan. 1, 2014, and the skate park group is responsible for raising all of the funds for the design, construction, operation and maintenance.
According to ConcreteDisciples.com, there are more than 80 skate parks in Michigan, but not one in Ann Arbor. The Ann Arbor skate park would be a free public amenity.
Members of the City Council signed their names to a letter last year in which they said they were "committed to working to identify further opportunities for the city to leverage capital or in-kind resources to further the realization of a skate park facility."
The Ann Arbor Commission on Disabilities Issues unanimously approved a resolution last week in support of the construction of a skate park in Ann Arbor that would be "a safe and reasonably barrier-free recreational amenity that would be accessible for all."
Members of the commission visited the Riley Skate Park in Farmington Hills, a 29,000-square-foot concrete park that opened in 2009 and is estimated to attract more than 200 skaters each day. They were able to view the sport firsthand and speak with skaters.
During a presentation before the City Council this week, Rosencrans, former chairman of the city's Park Advisory Commission, argued skateboarding is one of the least dangerous sports around. He pointed to a 1998 study by the Consumer Product Safety Commission that showed skateboarding ranked below all major sports for rates of injury, including basketball, football, hockey, baseball, soccer, fishing and golf — based on numbers of hospital visits.
For every 100,000 participants, the study showed 20.2 injuries from skateboarding, 62 from soccer, 115.7 from baseball and 223.5 from basketball.
Rosencrans said the highest rates of injury occur in sports that involve contact and collisions with other participants. In skateboarding, that's an anomaly, not an intention.
The Canadian Amateur Skateboarding Association issued a study in 2008 that showed only 5 percent of skateboarding injuries actually occur within skate parks, Rosencrans noted. He also pointed to a report by the Pediatric Orthopedic Society of North America that concluded in 2004 that injuries to skateboarders occur primarily when they practice close to traffic or use homemade ramps — a concern mitigated by construction of a "world-class skate park."
"What they mean by world-class skate park is a concrete, poured-in-place, well-designed-by-a-professional amenity like we are proposing," Rosencrans said.
Khalil Benson, a 15-year-old skater from Ann Arbor and another member of the Ann Arbor Skatepark Street Team, said an Ann Arbor skate park can't come soon enough.
"Skating outside in your driveway, it can be pretty boring," he said. "You know, you just want to be with, like, other skaters in a skate park where it's a lot more fun."
In the absence of a skate park in Ann Arbor, many area teens currently turn to skateboarding on rails and other fixtures downtown, which is illegal and an annoyance to pedestrians and businesses. City ordinance prohibits skateboarding in the following areas:
- Main Street from Huron Street to William Street
- Liberty Street from Main Street to State Street
- State Street from Washington Street to William Street
- South University Avenue from Forest Avenue to East University Avenue
- Liberty Plaza
- In any parking structure
Additionally, under city ordinance, it is unlawful for a person to skateboard in the street, except if the person is crossing in a designated crosswalk.
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.
Comments
Jon Saalberg
Sat, Jul 2, 2011 : 2:44 p.m.
It's unfortunate that our city thinks parking garages are more important that providing a safe and legal place for kids to skate. We travel to Marquette regularly, a city of 25,000, and they have a skate park. Where's all the funding in this prosperous city for things we really need? I'm sure many will scoff at this statement, but in a city where law enforcement is overreaching regarding skaters, it would seem critical to provide a sanctioned skate facility for young people.
Diana Kern
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 2:14 p.m.
I am a 49 year old, college-educated, professional woman that does not skateboard, but I have enjoyed meeting, watching and getting to know many youths and adults that do! I know kids, teens, adults, teachers, and even a judge that skateboards! In all my years watching the sport grow in popularity and I have not seen any of the crazy injuries that half the people posting here seem to be worried about. Really now, if you have not been watching skateboarding and visiting the many skateparks across the State, please don't assume you know anything about the sport, the people or what a free, outdoor, quality skatepark would mean for our County. We can all point to many things we think are needed in the community. I for one and very much in favor of the skatepark at Veteran's Memorial Park and support the City, the County, the nonprofit involved in trying to make this amenity a reality for our community!
Pete Nowakowski
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 2:01 p.m.
The skatepark in Vets' Park will be another point of pride for Ann Arbor treasured by a diverse range of people of all income levels and ages. It will often have larger crowds than most free sporting facilities in Ann Arbor at any given time. The park in Farmington Hills is a great example and they have contests, events, and an annual festival in the surrounding park that could help to raise money for ongoing maintenance costs. Skateboarding promotes friendship, creativity, activity and a do-it-yourself work ethic. That is why hundreds of people have been researching, volunteering, raising money, holding events, etc. for years to make this happen. It requires working with City and County Officials for so long to get approvals for an endorsement to help improve your hometown. I understand people's concerns but honestly these issues have been discussed, debunked, and resolved, not only here, but by hundred of other towns that skaters worked hard for similar facilities. Of course stormwater, landscaping, and liability have been addressed. The only roadblock is money. There are always other causes that may be equally or more worthy for some, but there shouldn't be shame, neglect, or ignorance of the great efforts and of The Ann Arbor Skatepark volunteers and supporters. The positive impact skateboarding has on millions of people throughout the world is something more people should embrace and welcome into their communities.
kittybkahn
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 2:41 a.m.
I really am amazed by all the negative comments. Vet's Park is the perfect location for a skatepark. It is on the bus line and would attract skateboarders from other communities who would come here to have good clean fun with others and then spend money in nearby restaurants and stores. Isn't it better to have a place for people of all ages to get together and have some fun and exercise than to skate in the streets and on the sidewalks? Oh, that's right, it is not legal to do that anyway. I do not skate, but am a supporter of the Ann Arbor Skatepark and encourage others to do the same. -Peace, Kitty
speravi
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:53 a.m.
Anyone who doesn't think it is in the general interest of the community to provide activities that keep teenage boys busy is not thinking things through very well, it seems to me. Let's just encourage them to come downtown and hang out with nothing particular to do. THAT doesn't cost the community anything, now, does it? If I have your attention, I might add that girls skateboard, too, of course. Mr. Tony Hawk is 43 now, I believe.
speravi
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 3:44 a.m.
baker437, congratulations on your industry and your blissfully incomplete memory. Providing healthy recreation to citizens is not bribery. It is in the public interest, as the original citizens of our towns recognized when they included public parks in the civic fabric to begin with.
baker437
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.
When I was their age which was only 10 years ago. I spent most my free time studying or pay for my own hobbies. I also got my exercise loading cars in a lumberyard. Improving their study skill and work ethics in the long run would be a better skill for them to learn and would improve our country. Why should we bribe young adults to be good citizens?
RT
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:20 a.m.
As a former resident and skateboarder of Ann Arbor I KNOW that a skatepark is needed. I live in a place that has a 16000 sq ft park. While many parts of our public park features(basketball, tennis, softball) etc. are noticeably unused at times the skatepark is active almost all the time. One of the things that I don't see discussed here are benefits the Sk8park will bring A2. Money will be spent when people visit A2 to Skate. Parents will drop kids off at the park and go shopping or catch a movie. Maybe go out to eat. I see people visit our park here from all over the country and around the world. It will add another reason to visit your great city.
Doctor Fang
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:14 a.m.
Ann Arbor needs a skate park! I don't understand the double-standard that I'm seeing on these boards. Why is skateboarding being treated as a second-class activity, any less worthy of a city facility than swimming, golf, canoeing, baseball, disc golf, etc? Is it a bias regarding the presumed profile of the participants? Why the disparity of support?
baker437
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:19 a.m.
Ann Arbor doesn't need skate park it needs to restructure its budget and government. Also attracting more jobs would be nice attract more jobs.
Kate Higgins
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 11:24 p.m.
A skateboard park would be a healthy and constructive activity for boys and girls in Ann Arbor. We should support it.
Trevor Staples
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 10:32 p.m.
@baker437, your argument that skateboarding damages public and private property is a great one for why we NEED a skatepark. If kids were playing baseball in the streets and breaking windows, we surely wouldn't ban playing baseball. What we'd do (and have done) is create free, public places for people to play baseball... ...and softball, soccer, handball, disc golf, BMX jumping, basketball, tennis, biking, walking, running, dog walking, hiking, sledding, golfing (not free, but subsidized), inline skating, volleyball, swimming (not free, but subsidized), and on and on and on. Skateboarding is part of our culture. Next time you walk through the grocery store, look to see how many products you can find that have "skateboarders" on them. You'll find just as many as have soccer players or football players. The skatepark isn't going to be some dark alley where drug dealers and thugs will be whisking our children away to a life of crime. It will be a clean place (like Ranney Skatepark in Farmington Hills) where kids of all ages, from 5 to at least 60 years old, will be able to participate in the "sport" they love in a safe, controlled place. Our community has shown incredible support of this project over the past few years. That has been shown not in the annarbor.com comments section, but in city council meetings, park advisory commission meetings, and hundreds of family-friendly skateboarding-related events. I LOVE Ann Arbor, not least because of all the free activities listed above. A free, public skatepark is going to make my hometown an even cooler, "best place to live" than it already is. Thank you Ann Arbor and Washtenaw County for your continuing tremendous support of this awesome project. Go us! Yeah!
CincoDeMayo
Mon, Jun 27, 2011 : 5:24 a.m.
I like your upbeat, positive post Trevor. Are they really charging a fee for Pickerel Lake now???
James Pyke
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 3:37 p.m.
"I know it is not free." When anyone refers to parks activities as being available for "free" they mean "with no admission charge." This is why Trevor pointed out that swimming and golfing are subsidized - these parks activities have additional admission fees per visit or per season. I wish it were "free" to go to Rolling Hills or Pickerel Lake too, but it isn't, so I pay. If there were a way to set up the infrastructure needed to charge a few bucks for access to the skate park, I think that would be fine too, but I bet the "gate fees" might not be enough to pay the minimum wage "toll booth workers". Plus I'm guessing it will make it easier to keep the park open for dawn til dusk hours (and maybe beyond that with as brightly lit as Vets is with those ball field lights) if the city doesn't have to pay workers to be there all the time.
baker437
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:11 a.m.
"I LOVE Ann Arbor, not least because of all the free activities listed above." As a taxpayer in Ann Arbor I know it is not free. I get remind of this every time they have increase my taxes since I bought a house in AA.
baker437
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:07 a.m.
I think my point was we should teach kids to obey the law and respect other people's property. We should not feel the need to reward them for doing what is right. I was also pointing out that is why skateboarding is band downtown and why people may have negative feels about it. You make a good point that once we as taxpayer give one special interest group what they want then there is a never ending line of people that want things. I would not be opposed to AA evaluating the need for or privatizing thing like the golf courses. I will give you a personal example. I participate in the shooting sports and even give lessons. It a sport that is legal and enjoyed by many people in the area (my club alone is over 600 members) but I can't do in AA because there is no range and city laws. Do think Ann Arbor should build a free indoor public range in the city. No. And you can make all same arguments as to why they should a range as you make for the skate park. Instead I belong to a club about 20 minutes from here and pay dues to use the range. So I why is skateboarding more important than many other hobbies or sports we don't have facilities for? Maybe we need a paintball field, horse stables or go cart track? Where does it end?
Steve Hendel
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 12:01 a.m.
Dream on. If there really were all this "incredible support" they would be further ahead in fundraising than $75,000 out of $600,000.
skonigsb
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:31 p.m.
Quick question... why don't we, as a community, frown on ice skating or ice hockey like we frown of skateboarding? Is it not as pretty, is there no dancing, no music? What?? And what about sledding? Nobody minds when people sled down that crazy hill at Vets in the winter, and believe me, I've seen many a head injury and broken limb from that hill alone. Not to mention the other public park hills used for sledding. I don't remember having to sign a waiver when sledding on that hill. I think 'we' just don't really like the kids that might use that skatepark. Maybe they don't dress as pretty as the ice skaters. Maybe they don't cut their hair like the hockey players do. Face it, if the good people of Farmington Hills and Brighton can find it in their hearts to support a public skate park, then we can too. And can I please just remind people that matching funds from 'parks and req' is completely separate from the police and fire funds that the city is raping. Two separate barrels of money. Paid for by separate taxes, separate millages. Must we take a basic civics class again? Go back to the 7th grade if you need a little review.
Steve Hendel
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:41 p.m.
Yes, there are separate buckets for (it seems) everything, but I think people are frustrated by the fact that-as a community-we seem to be able to find money for peripheral projects like a skate park (as in the County's $400k) while at the same time basic services like public safety are being cut back. Face it-how we spend public funds is a reflection of our priorities.
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:41 p.m.
For me it is the damage they cause to public and private property when they ride or grind on objects like benches and steps. The thing you mention cause little to no permanent damage and are enjoyed by many kids.
Mick52
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:30 p.m.
Why not West Park, closer to downtown? Lots of space there and much closer to the Emergency room.
Scott Rosencrans
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 8:01 p.m.
Good question, Mick. The location is on an active recreation park complex with more adequate parking and access to bus lines, highway ramps (for people from other parts of the county to arrive from), close to 2 of our high schools and sporting goods shops, and directly across the street from St. Joe's Urgent Care. All of the land at West Park is in use and this spot is available.
skonigsb
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:34 p.m.
actually there's an emergency clinic directly across the street from the proposed skatepark site. Run by the St. Joe's health system. Walk in clinic. Probably very nicly equipped to handle most skater injuries.
jiffy
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 5:39 p.m.
Cannot wait until this skate park opens! This town needs a skate park! It would allow the kids a safe and fun place to skate without any worry of being arrested for skating the downtown area. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
James Pyke
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
Skateparks can also be enjoyed by rollerbladers and BMX/mountain bike riders. I'm guessing parts of the park could be awesome for folks who have those "murderball" (wheelchair rugby) style sports wheelchairs as well. I think there are murderball teams here in town and last I checked the city had put together a bunch of clay mounds in Bandemeer park for the bikers. With that plus all the new bike lanes going in around town, I think the skate park fits right into the picture very nicely. A whole bunch of people have been working for a long time at the fund raising for this. Nobody's asking for anything to be "handed to them". I think there are at least 2 board shops here in town, so it would be nice if there were a skate park too. Also, the proposed location is close enough to the Highway, West Ann Arbor shopping malls and some great restaurants that it would make an excellent Southeast Michigan tourist destination for families with teenagers. Seriously, teenagers have a tough enough time as it is. Could some more wealthy Ann Arborites pony up some dough for this?
James Pyke
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
"That 700K would be better spent in their education." I guess if it had to be an "either / or" I'd agree with you, but maybe you should talk to the One Million Reasons people if you're interested in fundraising for schools and education. This is about fundraising for a skate park. The phrase "handed to them" belittles the rather intensive efforts of a whole bunch of Ann Arborites to make this happen (some of whom are friends of mine). This is about helping teens and twentysomethings (someone correct me if I'm wrong about that being who will use the park most) to have a fun, active place to hang out in Ann Arbor. Honest question: Is it OK with you, Baker437, if young people are encouraged to do something other than study day and night? Lots of my friends were skaters when I was young, and for the most part they're more-productive-than-average members of society now all these years later.
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:29 p.m.
"A whole bunch of people have been working for a long time at the fund raising for this. Nobody's asking for anything to be "handed to them". " They may get up to 400K from the county and are asking for 300K from the state! That 700K would be better spent in their education.
glenn thompson
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:59 p.m.
Not enough money for police and firefighters, but we can pay staff to help fill out skate park grant applications. The city does not sufficient money to maintain existing golf courses, pools and senior centers, but it can build a million dollar skate park. It spends millions for storm water in West Park then want to pave an acre of land in Vets park to make the storm water problem worse. It spends thousands planting trees because that is suppose to improve storm water and then plans to cut trees in Vets park for a field of concrete. Our city government is so consistent. Consistently wasting resources while claiming it must have more revenue
KJMClark
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:16 p.m.
Parks has a separate millage. Read that again - "separate millage". That means that the voters decided to tax themselves for parks, and *only* parks. We can't use the parks money for other uses ***because the voters voted that way!*** I have some sympathy with people upset about the city's 'buckets' approach, but I do *not* want the parks budget - at the city, county, or state levels - raided for other uses. That's the way the voters wanted it. If you don't like that, feel free to move elsewhere.
helenb
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:04 p.m.
@ Glenn Thompson: Having read many of your comments over the years I am still looking forward to reading about a project of which you approve. The projects you cite are in no way related to the SP project, and the SP project will not affect any of those funding streams.
grye
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:55 p.m.
I can see that a skate park would provide physical activity to a limited number of youth. However, couldn't a scaled back park be considered to allow some local activity? The large skate parks have bowls, ramps, etc. A couple of half pipes, rails, etc could be installed at an existing park to provide a local attraction without having to build the Disney World of skate parks.
5c0++ H4d13y
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
Those things fall apart and then fall into disuse. If you look at successful skateparks across the country it's concrete permanent skateparks that draw a crowd. That's another goal for the skatepark. Kids from different areas come to one place to meet up and skate. That's one of the reasons the county is supporting it. Kids from Ypsi, Dexter and wherever will show up and meet and skate. It's not a team sport where you're trying to beat the other team and win. Much more of a "that was cool, how'd you pull that off?".
glenn thompson
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:10 p.m.
There was a half pipe in Vet's Park several years ago. It was removed because it was not used.
Barb's Mom
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:51 p.m.
I have a question about a skatepark. Will there be anyone there to get a waiver from the parents so that if "little Johnny" tries to perform a trick and falls and breaks his neck, the parents can't sue the City, County, or State for neglect?
Scott Rosencrans
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:56 p.m.
Hi Barb's Mom, Thanks for asking. Like all City Park amenities people make use of them at their own risk. The same is true for our sledding hills, BMX bike course (at Bandemer) and basketball courts, etc. The folks at Farmington Hills tell me that they rarely hear of injuries at their skate park - certainly far fewer that on their softball fields and basketball courts, all of which are important to a complete park system.
skonigsb
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:11 p.m.
I don't think that anyone requires us to sign a waiver when we walk into Vets Ice Rink to 'skate' in the winter. Sure, I might have to pay a daily admittance fee when we do skate on ice, but i presume that's to maintain the ice. concrete doesn't require the same constant attention that ice requires. If you've ever seen a formal skate park, like the Riley Park in Farmington Hills, you'd notice that there are 'skate at your own risk' signs posted everywhere which I believe absolves the city of the responsibity.
5c0++ H4d13y
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:13 p.m.
It wil be "use at your own risk" like many of the other ball fields and open spaces the park district manages.
Mike
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
I admire the fact that these kids want to do something besides sit on their ever widening rear ends. But guess what, there are so many stupid rules that force them to sit on their butts at home and we wonder why kids are fat? Is fat politically correct? Or are they "gravity challenged", maybe "metabolically challenged". This is a bad idea given the economic state we are in, but maybe we could allow them to skate board on the sidewalks except maybe in the downtown areas. I know that will tick off the "we gotta have rules for everything crowd" but too bad. Is it OK to say "too bad" ? I'm trying really hard to not have the politically correct police come after me. There are two issues here; one is we are broke, two is we have too many rules limiting what kids (and adults) can do.
Kathryn Frontier
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
To everyone commenting about the "free lunch" being given to the kids, I'd just like to point out that any time the "street team" is mentioned; those are the kids. A group of kids interested in skateboarding and in improving their community sat through a city council meeting on one of their summer nights to show their support. This group of kids also raised nearly $1000 from a BAKE SALE. They're doing a great job trying to support something they believe in, and I don't think that should be looked over.
Steve Hendel
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:30 p.m.
So they deserve up to $700,000 in taxpayer funds why? Because the sat through a Council meeting? Because they raised $900 in a bake sale? Because, as one skater said, they get bored skating in their driveways?
Trevor Staples
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:22 p.m.
Thank you, Kathryn! These kids have busted their behinds to raise money for this project. Anyone who says they're sitting around with their hands out waiting for a free lunch is uninformed, and uninvolved in this community.
a2roots
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:58 p.m.
A skatepark if at all feasible would have already been developed by a private initiative. It will only be a drain on the budget and eventually fall into disrepair. They tried a smaller version at Vets park a few years back that ran it's course in short order.
helenb
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
Seems like a community that is so involved with younger people should have this amenity. It makes our town more appealing to those who might come here (families, college students, etc). This is not coming out of our tax dollars (grants, private funds), but would benefit the town. And yes, wheelchair bound and handicapped kids do get into the sport. Here are some links to youtube <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxl-PjxgRE" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWxl-PjxgRE</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtIyOE8Okk" rel='nofollow'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtIyOE8Okk</a>
grye
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:50 p.m.
But the root of all words come from Greek. (My Big Fat Greek Wedding)
Mike
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:22 p.m.
We're always "investing" in our towns and cities and states. The fact that there is no money seems to be a concept many are unable to grasp. In Greece they are now grasping that concept in a very painful way. I don't want to become Greece...........
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:57 p.m.
tak payer = taxpayer
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:55 p.m.
"Washtenaw County's Parks and Recreation Commission has pledged up to $400,000 in matching funds" So that 400K is not tak payer money? Or what about the 300K from the DNR they want?
Wolf's Bane
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:28 p.m.
Safety should be a consideration, but hardly factors into whether enough funds can be raised to build a skatepark big enough for beginners and advanced riders alike. The real issue here, is that the Friends of the Ann Arbor Skatepark need funds to make this park a reality. The benefit to Ann Arbor kids justifies the construction. Though, I would make it absolutely manditory that any rider wear safety gear! Concrete is unforgiving to flesh and bone.
johnnya2
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:45 p.m.
It amazes me how old the people on this board sound. This city bends over backwards for bikers, runners, swimmers, disc golf players, golfers, rowers, canoers, but they pass laws OUTLAWING skateboarding in certain areas. Yet the real problem is the bicyclist who decides to bypass traffic instead of following the rules of the road as they are REQUIRED by law to do. I never see police harass bicyclist, but it is ok to go after young males because they are not voters.
Mick52
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:28 p.m.
One of the reasons skateboarding is banned, probably the chief reason is that the skaters like to jump on structures like steps and railings and the impact causes damage. Not all skaters do that but many do and it leads to a need to repair the damage. You don't see damage like that from the other recreations you listed.
KJMClark
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.
I have to say, as someone who *has* been harassed by the police while biking to work - four times that I recall off the top of my head - that the police here are more likely to bother you as a cyclist if you *are* following the rules of the road. We really should replace the skateboarding ordinance with a 'wheels down' ordinance. A skateboard is a legitimate vehicle. We should be encouraging their use as a vehicle for low-speed, short-distance travel.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:21 p.m.
"This city bends over backwards for bikers, runners, swimmers, disc golf players, golfers, rowers, canoers, but they pass laws OUTLAWING skateboarding in certain areas." That's not entirely true. Swimming, golfing, rowing and canoeing are also not allowed on downtown streets.
JB
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 2:03 p.m.
You've missed the point...should people have a place to skateboard, ABSOLUTELY. Should it be a very expensive purpose-built facility, subsidized by taxpayer dollars requiring further oversight by the City? Probably not. If skateboarding is as popular as everyone claims, then I don't see why it isn't attractive to a private developer? If the city was in surplus--I'd say YES! But, truth be told there are plenty of recreation options already available in Ann Arbor and now is not the time to try to build one more.
Jay
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:23 p.m.
All these kids want is a place to skate. Everywhere but their driveway is illegal in A2, and while I myself am not a skater, I hope they get the park already! Everybody seems so negative against skateboarding, lighten up people! I'm so used to seeing nothing but negativity in the news in one form or another now days, and here is a story about a group of kids and their supporters working to raise funds for something that would be good for an entire community, and people still want to tear the whole idea down!?! Give these kids a break!! Let them have a place to skate! It's an activity that is actually positive! And they are even getting away from the TV and whatever else and being active! There's nothing but good things there, especially if they get it after putting in this much work for it. They deserve the entire communities support!
Leonel
Sat, Jul 9, 2011 : 5 p.m.
@baker437 I'd ask the same question about bicyclists who choose unsafe activities such as bypassing traffic rules, putting themselves in treacherous situations, and don't get me started on drivers that create unsafe conditions for motorcyclists and bicyclists. Should the get the entire community's support? Why carry out the important function of enforcing laws equally?
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:29 p.m.
Life lesson number one is you don't always get what you want even if you try really hard. This is especially true when you don't have money like the every level of government in this state. A people of Ann Arbor it is time to start picking what are important functions of government. Is it the schools, police, roads or a skate park! The 700K they want from us taxpayer is better spent elsewhere. Why do they deserve the entire communities support?
leezee
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
My philanthropic support goes to organizations that support health initiatives, education, homelessness and hunger. With some of the issues that the local community and the state are currently experiencing, it galls me to think that anyone is contributing to this endeavor.
grye
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 3:48 p.m.
Hope you have never bought any Girl Scout cookies. Wouldn't want your hard earned money to go to some "other" organization.
johnnya2
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:41 p.m.
So you don't believe kids should partake in physical activities? That is 100% about health. But keep up your sanctimony. It shows what you actually are. By the way, you are using the internet, in what way does that "support health initiatives, education, homelessness and hunger". I guess YOU are the person who decides how people should spend money.
JB
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.
I think everyone must realize, too that with their "donation" they are also pledging a portion of their tax dollars (the matching grant). I understand there are county parks & recreation budgets--but I do think that money could be spent better elsewhere within the parks & rec system.
Rocket
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.
DDot1962 is dead on. The community will vote on this with their wallets, just like everything else. The lack of funding from community and private business is just showing the were priorities lie. As far as the comparisons to city pools, just drive by Vets Park pool on a sunny hot day and you'll see a variety of ages scattered around the pool. I think it's unlikely we'll find very many community members over the age of 40 cruising around a skate park. I really like the idea, and the space is obviously available, but a free lunch this is not. If it is wanted so desperately by the small percentage of local users that will be using it regularly, then they should be leading the charge to secure funds anyway they can, please stop asking for any more city or county freebies when we are shutting down fire stations a few times a week and cutting 13 police jobs.
CincoDeMayo
Mon, Jun 27, 2011 : 5:07 a.m.
Thank you Mick52, I agree.
Mick52
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
Hey AA.com: If you whack a comment could you also whack the "show 1 reply" link so we don't waste time trying to read an edited comment?
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:11 p.m.
"Washtenaw County's Parks and Recreation Commission has pledged up to $400,000 in matching funds" A fine example of how I have to cut back my spending to essential things, but the local government of this county still will not. Wouldn't that money be better spent on more press needs of this county or at least on maintain the parks that already exist? "The city now is seeking $300,000 in grant funding from the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and Environment and expects to hear back on its application by November." Remember the state is broke. I hope if they get this the state can require them to charge a small fee like all the state parks do to cover cost even though this is not a state park. "skate park group is responsible for raising all of the funds for the design, construction, operation and maintenance …. The Ann Arbor skate park would be a free public amenity." First if they are having trouble raising money now and will not be charging money to use it where is the money going to come from for maintenance? I am sure at some future point possible many years from now it will be either closed or costing the city to keep it up. Will the skate park group also be liable if they are the ones running it? If there is such demand for it why doesn't a private company build one? There several in the state. Or why doesn't the group form club and start their own private park? This type of thing is done for several hobbies that require a lot of land like gun clubs.
Scott Rosencrans
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 3:36 a.m.
@ Steve Hendel: Typical annual maintenance costs for comparable amenities range in the $6,000 range. We're trying to cover every possible eventuality.
Steve Hendel
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 9:47 p.m.
Are you joking, Mr Rosencrans? How will the INCOME from $100,000 (seen interest rates lately?) even begin to pay for maintenance? How did you come up with that figure? Or, are you perhaps just figuring that once the facility is built. the City and/or County will have to take on that responsibility?
baker437
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 8:02 p.m.
From the DNR: "The Michigan Natural Resources Trust Fund (MNRTF) has been in place since 1976. It provides financial assistance to local governments and the Department of Natural Resources and Environment (DNRE) to purchase land or rights in land for public recreation or protection of land because of its environmental importance or its scenic beauty. It also assists in the appropriate development of land for public outdoor recreation." Somehow I think added a bunch of concrete to an area with run off issues is not in the spirit of the trust or is protecting the environment.
Scott Rosencrans
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:50 p.m.
Actually, the Michigan Natural Resources Trust Fund grants have been used to help build many skate parks in the state. 10% of the budget for the Ann Arbor project, or $100K, is slated for continuing maintenance of the amenity.
Mick52
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.
I'm with you, same two thoughts. The county seems to offer up money as long as the object is not in the county. Perhaps that is because of operating costs. Somehow the city needs assurance this will not be a fiscal burden. I think it needs to be downtown, much closer to the emergency room.
Brad
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.
If they are really trying to say that skateboarding is safer than golf then I'ld have to say that one of their barriers is trying to insult people's intelligence with bogus stats.
Scott Rosencrans
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:45 p.m.
Hi Brad, Actually, I got that information from a Consumer Product Safety Commission report which is cited by numerous major medical institutions and sports associations. You should check it out.
glenn thompson
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:19 p.m.
The safety stats Mr Rosencrans presented are very misleading. Basketball is "dangerous: because of many sprained ankles. But if you consider more serious injuries like traumatic brain injuries and death skateboarding is more dangerous.
KJMClark
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 12:06 p.m.
I seem to recall a skatepark being part of the parks plans a decade or two ago. What's taking so long? The parks department has no money at all for that?? That doesn't strike me as too different from a swimming pool in terms of cost and benefit. We somehow managed to find the money to build three outdoor public pools. What's the difference? I think skateboarding appeals to teens, and for some reason, Ann Arbor as a community isn't as interested in teens. Whatever. I just sent off a donation. People should know that donations actually go to an endowment fund at the Ann Arbor Area Community Foundation - so it's a tax *credit* on your tax return, not just a deduction.
johnnya2
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 1:37 p.m.
JB, The cost to maintain a pool is SIGNIFICANTLY higher and more dangerous. The skate park is not only for teenage boys. ANYBODY can use it. If they choose not to, that is on them. I do not use canoes the city makes available at the Argo Livery. I don't use Leslie Park Golf Course. I will never swim in Veterans Park (kids poop in it all the time), I have never used the disc golf course at Brown Park. Each of these activities has a niche. The ones that people refuse to support seems to be due to the "look" that makes you uncomfortable.
JB
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.
The key difference between a skatepark and a pool in terms of cost/benefit, is the demographic that it serves. Anyone can swim--from under-5-year-olds to 105-year-olds, and pools are highly accessible to those with disabilities. Although it may not be as "cool" as skateboarding. As a taxpayer, why should I subsidize something that is only good for so few?
JB
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 11:56 a.m.
A while back I drove by an abandoned gas station in Ypsilanti. Kids there had turned it into their very own skate park--complete with ramps, jumps, and all sorts of obstacles made from "trash." Was it the best skatepark around? No... Was it the safest thing in the world? No... Were the kids having a blast? Yes! As far as I know nothing bad happened there, and it looked like the kids really had a place that was their own. I'm sure someone has chased them out of there by now... In a time of growing disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots," I can muster little support for the upper-middle class Ann Arbor kids who don't have a state-of-the art facility to skateboard at. I lived in a town with a skatepark for many years, in in reality, the only people it really served were 10-18 year old boys. That is a pretty narrow segment of the population to subsidize. Even if the funds are raised to build it, who is going to maintain it? What are we going to do with it once skateboarding is no longer the sport-du-jour? I'm not convinced that a 100K "endowment" is enough to sustain a fee-free facility for its lifetime.
CincoDeMayo
Mon, Jun 27, 2011 : 5:03 a.m.
I agree that the disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots", which has actually been entrenched for years, is growing even greater now. But, I have to say that, like your Ypsilanti kids, the kids who you think of as "upper-middle class" Ann Arbor kids, also find their own abandoned parking lots, or after hours unused parking lots. I don't want to give away some of what I think they consider the best places, but I have avoided striking several of them with my car as they careen off course and into traffic on Washtenaw Avenue. I'm not a proponent of the Vet's park location, however, I would like to see somewhere safe for them to skate. This wish, and then effort, to have a skate park in Ann Arbor has been ongoing for at least 35 years! Unfortunately, because of those who turned our economy into shambles, I doubt that these kids will see their dream realized. Not only will they not get this skate park, our kids will not have many of the publicly funded luxuries that those before them enjoyed.
MIKE
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 : 4:26 a.m.
Did the police chase those kids away? Yes!
Bababooey
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 4:55 p.m.
JB...Your suggestion is for kids to build their own ramps around abandoned businesses? Seriously? Skateboarding has been growing in popularity for 30+ years at this point. I don't see the popularity waning one bit. Does the park need to be as expansive and expensive as the current plans call for? Maybe not; but I think it would be a nice addition to Ann Arbor.
DDOT1962
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 11:39 a.m.
I don't get the endorsement from the disabilities commission. Are people in wheelchairs going to be doing some grinding or getting air coming out of the half-pipes too? In all seriousness, I think the lack of funds raised is indicative of the support for a skatepark. Maybe in more flush times this would have been an amenity people would have underwritten, but with so much financial struggling going on now, it looks to be too extravagant. It is surprising that communties like Farmington and Brighton have them while Ann Arbor doesn't, though. AA should be the home for alternative sports, you'd think.
Scott Rosencrans
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 7:43 p.m.
Actually, yes. Skateboarding is one of the most accessible sports for adaptive athletes including wheel chair bound folks, and amputees. You'll fine great stuff on the web performed by Italo Romano, Jon Comer, Evan Strong, and many others. Without skateboarding there would be few athletic options for these people.
Awakened
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 11:28 a.m.
Wow! I am continuously amazed that my generation was raised without government assistance.
aawolve
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 12:50 p.m.
I am continuously amazed at what a crappy world your generation has left for these kids.
KJMClark
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 12:09 p.m.
I am continuously amazed at how many people can't see their nose in front of their face. Unless you were raised in a mountain shack somewhere, you were raised with government assistance. Ever heard of public schools and public roads?
DDOT1962
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 11:40 a.m.
Trust me, it wasn't.
HeavyMental
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 : 10:55 a.m.
Is this really what we should be worried about? Kids now-a-days are so used to things just being handed to them.