Ann Arbor residents voice concerns about cuts to fire department at town hall meeting
Aside from news media and city officials, only about seven residents attended Wednesday night's town hall meeting on Ann Arbor's city budget. Those who were in attendance had strong feelings about cuts to public safety.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
City Administrator Roger Fraser's proposal to cut 12 firefighters from the city's budget over the next two years drew the ire of Ann Arbor residents at a town hall meeting Wednesday night.
During a lively back-and-forth exchange, Fraser acknowledged he's recommending the city go forward with the cuts without certainty of how it will play out.
"The fact is that every bit of this is an experiment," he said. "We know how things worked when we had 23 people on a shift, we know that we have to do things differently in the future, and we're going to optimize the service that we have with the people we've got."
The job eliminations — which the firefighters union and recently resigned Fire Chief Dominick Lanza argue would put life and property at risk — aim to reduce the Ann Arbor Fire Department's ranks from 89 to 77. The department already lost five positions last July.
Aside from news media and city officials, only about seven residents attended Wednesday's meeting. Toward the end, Fraser appeared somewhat frustrated.
"If you want to take issue with us this evening, I'm not going to entertain a lengthy argument about the pros and cons of fire service," Fraser told residents.
Dean Kapp, a retired fire department battalion chief, asked Fraser what the city would do if it experienced two fires in different parts of the city simultaneously.
City Administrator Roger Fraser explains to residents how Ann Arbor tax dollars are separated into different "buckets of money."
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"There are protocols that drive the number of people who respond to particular types of fires," Fraser said, acknowledging a number of changes made in recent years have reduced those numbers. "But if we have reason to believe that we have a valid structure fire, we try to have a minimum of 20 people on the scene within 10 minutes."
"Where do you find the 20 people?" Kapp asked. "There aren't that many on duty."
Fraser said the city tries to keep a minimum of 15 to 17 firefighters on duty at any given time, and it relies on mutual aid agreements with surrounding municipalities for additional help.
"What if we're helping them at the same time?" Kapp asked, to which Fraser acknowledged: "That's all part of the analysis that we have to do."
That analysis is being done by the International City/County Management Association. The city is paying the group $54,000 to study staffing levels in the fire department and provide the city with a report by mid-summer.
"The fact of the matter is that fire services are provided in a variety of ways around the country, Fraser said. "And the model that we are operating under in Ann Arbor is essentially the same model that was used 100 years ago when we had people onsite 24 hours a day."
Looking around the country, Fraser said, there are "significantly different ways that firefighting is successfully done at much less cost to the taxpayer." He said his presumption is Ann Arbor has "a very expensive fire service for what we need today."
"And I have been pressing hard for changes in the way that we provide the service," he said, suggesting the fire department has been resistant to change.
During budget talks last year, city officials said their goal is to able to put 18 firefighters on the scene of a working fire within eight minutes, which is required to meet state and national standards. The firefighters union claims Ann Arbor fails to meet those standards.
The union last year pointed to a GIS analysis conducted in 2008 that revealed the department's best response provided for 17 firefighters in under eight minutes in just 24.8 percent of the city.
The union claims the department has not had the ability to send 18 firefighters to the scene of a fire in less than eight minutes since 2003. Based on an analysis of call data, the union reported last year the quickest time to assemble 18 firefighters at a scene was 11 minutes.
The city began a new practice in mid-February of closing one of the city's five fire stations on a rotating basis to curtail costs. Each month a different station is assigned to be closed and property owners receive service from the next closest open fire station.
A woman who identified herself as a lifelong Ann Arbor resident spoke at Wednesday's meeting about a serious accident she said she was in a year and half ago. She said she's grateful for the police and firefighters who secured the scene and made sure she and her friend could be transported safely to a hospital, which she said saved their lives.
"You have an amazing police and fire department who did that," she said, adding she wouldn't want to see those services compromised. But she doesn't see how they wouldn't be with 25 positions slated for elimination in the police department on top of cuts to fire.
Mayor John Hieftje acknowledged "there's going to be an impact," but he said the city has little choice given the size of the budget deficit it's facing — $2.4 million next year alone.
Hieftje stressed, though, that crime is on a downward trend in Ann Arbor and the number of serious fires is relatively low.
According to data found on the city's website, the fire department responded to 280 fires in 2009, the last year for which complete data is posted. The department also handled 3,290 emergency medical calls, 224 auto accidents, 695 false alarms, and 1,191 other incidents varying in nature that year.
Police and fire services would make up 49.4 percent of next year's general fund budget under Fraser's proposal, which includes expenditures of $78.9 million.
Hieftje said the city is having to cut public safety through little fault of its own. He said most of the city's budget problems can be traced to decreases in state revenue sharing, a projected decline in property taxes and the ever-increasing cost of employee health care.
Fraser said the police and fire unions have been unwilling to switch over to the city's new health care plan to help cut costs. The police contract expired in June 2009 and the fire contract expired in June 2010. The city has been unable to strike new deals with either union and now is entering into arbitration. The police case is expected to be heard later this summer.
"Our firefighters have filed for 312 arbitration," Fraser added. "Once that gets started in a process, it's usually six to eight months before an arbitrator is selected, and then it's usually another eight to nine months after the arbitrator hears a case before we get a solution, so that's probably another one-and-a-half to two years before we see a settlement in that contract."
Fraser said about 40 percent of the city's employees have switched to the new health care plan, which reduces the city's costs by about 18 percent.
Ann Arbor resident Ed Vielmetti, former lead blogger for AnnArbor.com, told Fraser he's been frustrated with the "rhetoric" coming from both the firefighters and administration. He said neither side has presented accurate data to assist citizens in understanding the impacts of the cuts or whether current staffing levels provide adequate coverage.
Asked by AnnArbor.com what data he has examined, Fraser said he's looked at the response times for each fire station and the amount of time it takes firefighters to get from one area of the city to another. He said the city also has looked at national standards, but the interpretation of those standards is subject to debate and administration doesn't agree with the union.
"Those are precisely the reasons why we have asked for an independent study of what's happening in the fire service, what our capabilities are, and what our needs are as a community given modern-day technology, modern-day building standards and so forth," he said. "It's a fair question that I think deserves some additional exploration."
AnnArbor.com is awaiting the city's response to a Freedom of Information Act request seeking a number records related to the fire department, including data on response times and the most recent reports on calls handled this year compared to last year.
If Fraser's proposal to eliminate 48 jobs is approved by the City Council next month, the city will have reduced its work force from 1,005 to 688 full-time employees over the last decade.
"During the entire time I've been here, we have been reducing the number of people who are employed," Fraser said. "I think it was the first three or four years I was here that council said, 'We don't want to touch safety services.' The presumption was that we were going to work our way out of it, we'd make enough reductions so that we would be able to maintain into the future what it is that we have. That's proven not to be the case."
Hieftje cited estimates by the Michigan Municipal League that the state has lost about 2,500 police officers and about 2,100 firefighters in the last decade.
He noted Ann Arbor is similar in size to the city of Lansing, which is grappling with a $20 million budget deficit and is considering a plan to eliminate more than 200 jobs.
Lansing Mayor Virg Bernero's proposal to balance his city's budget would cut as many as 78 positions in police and 71 in fire. It also would eliminate all of the city's neighborhood watch and school liaison officers, and close as many as three fire stations. Bernero calls it a worst-case budget and is hoping voters instead will agree to a tax increase in May.
Hieftje said Ann Arbor has more police officers than most think. In addition to the 124 sworn officers in the Ann Arbor Police Department, he said the University of Michigan has 54 officers and they're available to assist the city in emergency situations.
One resident suggested maybe U-M also should have its own fire department. Hieftje said that might be a good idea for the university to consider.
Hieftje agreed with Fraser that sharing of fire services between local jurisdictions is becoming increasingly important as staffing levels are reduced.
"There was a large fire burning in Ypsilanti Township I think six or eight weeks ago, and there were fire people there from four different fire departments fighting the fire," Hieftje said. "That's a really good model. If you have something and it's not likely to occur very often where you're going to need to be in two places at once, you rely on relationships that you've been building up, and that's been improving a whole lot over recent years."
The firefighters union posted a video on YouTube last week:
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's e-mail newsletters.
Comments
sparty2219
Wed, Apr 20, 2011 : 5:07 p.m.
Here comes the "New World Order"
snapshot
Sun, Apr 17, 2011 : 8:54 p.m.
I think the city and all its employees must "reframe" their perspective. I hear and read a lot of arguements based upon the way it "was". I hear and read very little from safety experts on what "they" can do to maintain or even improve safety with limited resources. What I see them doing is pointing fingers, whining, complaining, retiring, and trying to scare the civilians. How about purchasing fire extinquishers for all the homeowners, having them come to the firehouse to pick up their "free" extinquisher and sit down for a 2 hour home fire safety seminar. This would be a lot cheaper than employing a couple of firefighters, and preventive in nature instead of responsive. I also don't want to hear how the fire dept. offerred and took a 3 or 4% cut. We're way past that old gripe.
63Townie
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 6:05 p.m.
It is patently clear from responses to articles like this, from letters to city administrators as well as phone calls, that residents want a professional, adequately staffed fire department. Our elected officials are not listening to us.
Carole
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 10:48 a.m.
Thank you for the comments -- in reading the article, it appeared that city hall could take funds from one pot and put into another pot -- which in the past stated they could not do. Having worked with tax dollars my entire life, I do now that there are times when a percentage can be moved from one line item to another to help offset expenditures. If indeed, the mall will generate more taxes for the school, hip hip hooray. Just yesterday on the radio, I believe it was mentioned that a consulting firm was going to be asked to find ways to consolidate fire department --- if we are paying a firm to do this, no thank you j-- the fire department knows best what is needed or not -- put those funds into keeping our AAFD and AAPD folks.
Stuart Brown
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 8:29 a.m.
deb, Excellent post! I have written here before about that; I think the city should send Mary Sue a dear John letter stating that after a certain date, the city FD will no longer respond to fire calls from UofM buildings unless the U enters into a service sharing agreement between the city and the U. In other words, the U would have to fund its own FD department and have mutual aid pack agreement with the city before any city FD personal would show up on UofM property. The city has a huge legal department, so I'm sure they have the talent on staff to take this issue all the way to the State Supreme Court if necessary. Are you aware of one of the very real practical issues preventing something like this from happening? The issue I am referring to is the Mayor and his wife's employment with UofM. The Mayor of our city use to live in a small, inexpensive home in the 1st ward off of Pontiac Trail when he was first elected Mayor. Since becoming Mayor, our Mayor has purchased a large, expensive home in Burns Park, paid for in no small way by the income generated by employment with UofM. Given the U's vindictiveness in dealing with UofM personal who have, for one reason or another, found themselves at odds with the U's administration; I would not put it past the U to suddenly terminate Hieftje's or his wife's employment if a letter like the one described above were ever written and sent to Mary Sue. People should not be fooled by the dog and pony show put on by our non-resident city manager (he lives outside the city)! The city has plans to spend $5 million re-skinning Larcom so it matches the recent expansion. The city pays Greenbelt consultants a small fortune to identify properties for development right purchases. Voters in 2003 (in the middle of the housing bubble) voted to tax themselves for 30 years to buy development rights on land outside the city; why not vote to re-direct the money to the FD department? No cuts to the AAFD!
deb
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 1:29 p.m.
Oh i realize. Another thing that I would like to see happen is an elimination of the DDA. I read the state statute sometime ago. Here is the relevant part: 125.1680 Dissolution of authority; disposition of property and assets; reinstatement of authority; contesting validity of proceedings, findings, and determinations. Sec. 30. (1) An authority that has completed the purposes for which it was organized shall be dissolved by ordinance of the governing body. The property and assets of the authority remaining after the satisfaction of the obligations of the authority belong to the municipality. Too bad the mayor is on this too. I would like the DDA to be eliminated. Once again we would not be running a deficit if we were to eliminate the DDA and take back the taxes it captures and the parking revenue.
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:22 a.m.
Lansing has not raised taxes YET logo. Not yet... Lansing is the Arm Pit of America, next to Flint and Detroit. Ann Arbor is much more prestigious and vibrant. Keep Ann Arbor full of life while you can! I'd give $1000 or more in taxes if given the chance to keep things as status quo. With the current economy, things are going to only get worse like more theft, robbery, fires, homicides, and I could go on and on... I would like to see the senators, governors, all elected officials take a pay cut and have to pay for their benefits. There is information out there that is presented stating that Government Employees will have to pay a portion to their benefits/insurance..but it fails to say ELECTED OFFICIALS. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm....
BornNRaised
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 4:26 p.m.
That's a trick they use. When Station 2 was closed forever, and after the last round of layoffs, Fraser said "not one person spoke up against it.". We found out later that they were flooded with emails and phone calls. Keep electing these folks.
63Townie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
@ deb, I wrote a letter to the Mayor and all the city council members regarding the same subject and never got a peep of a response. Apparently the only time they read their email and respond is during city council meetings and only to each other.
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:46 a.m.
63Townie..I wrote a letter too to our Gov. and I got an automated response that told me about how important education is. And they called me Christine??? I have no idea who Christine is and Education was not the topic of my letter to say the least, but I wrote them back. Nice try Governor Snyder....nice try. (hehehe...I hope he reads this and tries to write me back personally)
deb
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:42 p.m.
I believe that option #1 must at least be discussed, especially with fire department #3 going through intermittent closures. It is a hardline stance, but as a home owner on the westside of Ann Arbor (abbott school area) and having watched my neighbors just endure the tragic loss of their daughter as a result of a fire, I cannot see how the local taxpayers can continue to fund fire protection services, that they are not bound to provide, for a entity with $7,000,000,000+ in its coffers, while leaving its westside constituents with no fire station. When times are better we may once again choose to subsidize the U of M's fire department needs, but for now I think you and the rest of the council should think about the other options available before you choose to put the entire westside of Ann Arbor at risk. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you,
deb
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 7:42 p.m.
My letter does not explicitly or implicitly provide that the loss of life was due to the closure of the fire department. I know for a fact it wasn't on those days. Its an example of a reason to keep it open. You don't want to see someone lose their life, and then hear they are going to make cuts to an entity that was in the best position to help her. If anything after a tragedy or unfortunate incident entities try to make some sort of effort to make sure the situation does not repeat itself/be handled better (see giants fan beat at dodger stadium. The policing may have been adequate, but now they have stepped up their efforts dramatically.) I am willing to say that if the fire department had more people on staff that tragic evening that maybe it would have improved the chances of survival some amount, however minuscule that may be.
citizenx
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 5:57 p.m.
It might be in your best interest to be sure fire station 3 was closed on the day your neighbors home caught fire. If it was not closed then the cuts did not attribute to this unfortunate situation.
deb
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.
If the university were to say no, I would hope the city would respond by telling them that fire service protection would no longer be provided to university owned entities without the payment. The AAFD would respond only to protect city and privately owned entities. This is a tough position, and if U of M were to lose a building, the city would be faced with the "how could you be so cruel to standby and watch?" questions. However the city would work to shift blame to a large public university that holds over $7 billion in endowmensts and choose not to help subsidize their fire safety needs with approximently $4 million or whatever the acutual number may be( that 4 million is just a pure hypothetical, I believe last I saw is the U owns 40% of washtenaw county (seems high) and our FD budget is around 11 million, so its basically a guess. However I am quite certain the number would more than make up for the entire projected budget defecit) If the university were to counter with the establishment of their own FD, the city would be able to scale back its FD. This being based on the assumption the two FD's would have some sort of arrangement like the one that takes place between the PD's. Addtionnaly, the jobs lost from the scaleback of the aafd, would most likely be made up for by new hires by the u of m fd At least for large operations, the last option is undoable for the universtiy.
deb
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.
Ive posted this point before, but I wanted to share an email I wrote the mayor. He never responded Mr. Hieftje, The way I understand the issue, and the constitutional issues that come with it is this; State institutions are paid for by the state, which gets money form taxpayers from throughout the state, to benefit the entire state. It is unconstitutional for a select group of taxpayers (ann arbor taxpayers) to be required to fund a state service or service for that state owned entity in order for the benefit of the entire state. The state can say we are required too, but as of now this would not hold up in a court of law. It is quite simple. ( I am a law school student, and I discussed this issue with a constitutional law scholar a few weeks back. I trust him as he is a Yale Law graduate and was editor of their law journal, he also argued constitutional law issues in D.C.) The implications of the point above are this; we cannot be forced to provide fire protection to the U of M. Simply put the state cannot simply force the local taxpayers to "foot the bill." It would be as if all roads in Michigan had to come from tax money collected in Wayne county. This leaves the city with a couple options (one of which is ask the legislative for the money, but you have said this dosent work) The next approach is to ask U of M directley for the money. That would give them a few options other then saying yes; they could say no; build their own fire services, or move to a place that would be willing to subsidize their fire service needs.
deb
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:39 p.m.
I believe that option #1 must at least be discussed, especially with fire department #3 going through intermittent closures. It is a hardline stance, but as a home owner on the westside of Ann Arbor (abbott school area) and having watched my neighbors just endure the tragic loss of their daughter as a result of a fire, I cannot see how the local taxpayers can continue to fund fire protection services, that they are not bound to provide, for a entity with $7,000,000,000+ in its coffers, while leaving its westside constituents with no fire station. When times are better we may once again choose to subsidize the U of M's fire department needs, but for now I think you and the rest of the council should think about the other options available before you choose to put the entire westside of Ann Arbor at risk. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you,
BornNRaised
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:33 p.m.
"The fact is that every bit of this is an experiment," he said. "We know how things worked when we had 23 people on a shift, we know that we have to do things differently in the future, and we're going to optimize the service that we have with the people we've got." Yes, let's talk about the results of your experiment. You DO know how things worked with 23 people on a shift. And since dropping down the last 2 years AA has seen the highest death rate ever via fires. He simply dismisses it as an experiment. Ed's comments are out of touch. The city makes statements via AA.com, and the only avenue the FD has to respond is in the comments section. Just like comparing Lansing to Ann Arbor. Apples to oranges.
citizenx
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 6:04 p.m.
Born N Raised are you saying cuts in the fire service over the last two years has attributed to more fire deaths? If yes, then shame on you because fire depts all over the country experience fatalities even those with massive forces. You have a tendency to over react and use scare tactics to make your points. I would be willing to bet on the rare occasion a death has occurred due to a fire all the city fire stations were open and staffed. I welcome proof otherwise !
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:50 a.m.
Yeah, don't you love the terms of endearment..."An Experiment." Let's put lives at stake, and when the experiment fails...oh well..it was just an experiment, right? Unbelievable!
BornNRaised
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:28 p.m.
Fraser is a master at spinning facts. Yes, Lansing is about the same size with more firefighters. Lansing also runs it's own EMS department instead of relying on a private entity. So before you go believing him, know that he's comparing apples to oranges to get residents on his side.
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:40 a.m.
I agree Born. Lansing is about the same size and the residents are less educated (in general) than Ann Arbor residents. It's a no brainer. AAFD needs to hire more firefighters, provide EMS and take it from there. How about this? Take Fraser's salary and cut it in half. Make him pay for his benefits as well. Quid Pro Quo
Andy
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:17 p.m.
Ryan, you have a rather common typo in the article you'll want to attend to. (Hint: for the word "public")
Ryan J. Stanton
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:23 p.m.
Thanks for the catch. Fixed.
Ricebrnr
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:14 p.m.
Growing up in New York City, you see firetrucks all the time. Every available seat was filled with a FF on every call. Remember 9/11? Remember the images of the destroyed trucks? Think about how many responders got to the Towers... Contrast that to Ann Arbor, there are only 3, THREE FF per truck. Some wonder why when there is a fire or emergency why so many trucks respond. It's because they HAVE TO respond just to get enough manpower on scene. If you need to be extricated from your vehicle...is 3 people enough? Who's holding your neck, while someone else is using the hydraulic tools, did someone need to run hose? If your house was burning down...is 3 people enough? How fast can 3 people find a hydrant, run hose, get the pumps running while your house is burning? YES buy your own extinguishers, make sure your fire alarms are working, get a window ladder if you have a second story.. It's your responsibility regardless to do what you can until help arrives. Same for your defense and the Police. God bless the First Responders.
63Townie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
Less than three on a truck changes the response tactic. Fraser's reduced staffing levels will turn AAFD into a "surround and drown" department, which means a greater loss of property because the fire can't be fought from the inside until backup arrives. Fraser and Hieftje would like you to believe that "just because it hasn't happened means it won't". That approach is just like the city of Los Angeles lessening building codes because the big quake hasn't happened.
sparty2219
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:07 p.m.
Well, Mr City Administrator....do you live in the City? (that is my first question, because it's happened in Detroit) Secondly, have you ever lost a loved one in a fire, car accident, or through some sort of tragedy that required Fire/EMS? My guess is Mr Fraser, is that you are going to get sued the first time someone loses a life in a fire or accident through your TEST. You shall be held civilly liable as well as criminally responsible for neglect in the city in which you "rule." You have a duty as a person in that position to make sure that the safety of your citizens are safe. That is negligence!!!
63Townie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:52 p.m.
Folks, your elected city government is failing you. Special interest groups are kowtowed to at the drop of a hat while our infrastructure crumbles. Demand accountability and demand to be heard. There is far too much fat at the top of Ann Arbor's food chain; meanwhile Fraser & Co. cut to the bone at our level. Fraser and the Mayor seem to have conveniently forgotten that AAFD agreed to a 3% cut last year as a good faith gesture. Sorry Mr. Mayor but this resident has not forgotten AND I have not forgotten that six people have died recently in house fires. "Hieftje stressed, though, that crime is on a downward trend in Ann Arbor and the number of serious fires is relatively low." I wonder if the Mayor would utter that sentence in the presence of family members who lost loved ones in house fires.
Jack Eaton
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:48 p.m.
Consider this: Between FY06 and FY10, general fund expenses for "general government" increased 17%. (General government includes departments like the city attorney, city administrator, finance, HR, clerk, and council) Between FY06 and FY10 general fund expenses for police and fire increased 5% Between FY06 and FY10 general fund expenses for parks decreased 13% The City spends twice as much for its legal department as the county spends on its legal department In FY06, the City's information technology (IT) expenses were moved from the general fund to a separate "internal service" fund. Before the move, it cost about $3 million per year to provide IT for the whole city (including about $1 million per year for equipment). After the move to a separate fund, costs doubled. Giving up just one million of the six million dollar IT budget might cause some inconvenience, but would not threaten anyone's safety. One million dollars would fund about 10 fire and police positions. On April 13, Ann Arbor dot com reported that the City wants to use $150,000 in unspent FY11 funds to hire a consultant to study improvements to the State Street corridor. If council could find the will to say no, that $150,000 could be used for other priorities (ie: 1-1/2 first responders). I agree that we have a tight budget. I disagree with the budget priorities set by the City administration.
63Townie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
Outstanding post.
20/20
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:43 p.m.
Simple solution Ann Arbor in regards to cuts in Public Safety: Every resident should purchase a firearm and fire extinguisher. "that was easy"
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:33 a.m.
That was funny! How about this? I will pay your taxes and increase my protection and take yours away? ;)
AACity12
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:21 p.m.
I don't think there has been any baloney from the Fire side. You close a fire station and response times increase for that area. I am pretty sure we can all agree on that. You cut staff and the amount of work that is able to be done is decreased. Fighting a fire is very very labor intensive and you exhaust staff very quickly. The less staff you have the less work that can get done. Again I think we can all agree on that. You may be saying, "Well call for help from another FD". Or as Fraser says "we rely on mutual aid agreements." We are happy to work with others. But why would those communities want to work with us? The more AA cuts staff and the more AA fire stations that close the more time other FD's are going to be spending in AA. They will be in AA far more then we will be in their community helping them. Its just fact, we are a far bigger city and far busier. So why would a community like Pittsfield want to subsidize AA's fire service?
Patricia Lesko
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:48 p.m.
Sorry about that. It's 1.24 FF. The TOTAL number of residents is 100,000.
Patricia Lesko
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:46 p.m.
I spent a work day at the AAFD and did ride alongs. I got to ask the questions people routinely ask about fire service. I contacted national fire safety officials to verify the information I was given by the AAFD and city officials. I spoke to fire officials in other towns to understand how, say, Dearborn with 100,000 residents can have 120 FF, and why Mayor and Council there feel that level of coverage is necessary (the city charter requires 1.24 FF for every 100,000 residents). Why does the FD go out on ER calls? Huron Valley Ambulance (HVA) is a contract service with NO guaranteed response time. HVA keeps 8-10 rigs in and AROUND AA. The FD WILL respond immediately, if possible (see Mr. Kapp's comments/questions, above). HVA will dispatch—not the closest rig, but the rig that is FREE, even if that is the one furthest from your house. We want to ask questions about Huron Valley's contract and response rates. When the FD gets there first, and there's no transport, HVA shouldn't be paid a full fee, yet the company is. It's a very badly negotiated contract. The City's union labor contracts are also very badly negotiated—yet recommended to Council for approval over the past several years by Fraser, Hieftje, Rapundalo, Higgins, Teall, (Easthope and Greden). The city's contracts with its upper-level managers are very badly negotiated contracts. The City's pension system is an underfunded mess. There are city employee "retirees" earning $100+ collecting city pensions and health care. I profiled several of these "retirees" (<a href="http://www.a2politico.com/?p=6032)" rel='nofollow'>http://www.a2politico.com/?p=6032)</a> on March 25th thanks to a FOIA that was shared with me. Ed Vielmetti is a former lead blogger, not an expert in fire safety. His claim is unsubstantiated and its inclusion was unprofessional. Glad you FOIAed FD response rates. Hope you'll include HVA & compare to, say, Dearborn.
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
Maybe they should hire more fire fighters and do EMS/Ambulance service as well!
Major
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:20 p.m.
This is totally ridiculous! A big loud "are you serious"!? A good analogy would be, the Army cuts back on ammo, only three rounds per GI, saves a little money, but not lives. IMO, salaries of council members should be cut to zero before even ONE police officer or firefighter is taken from the community. Wait till AA residents get their new homeowners ins policy, going to be goin up, up, up!
Christopher LeClair
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:06 p.m.
Why on earth would anybody want to cut funding to the fire department? If it's inefficient as it is, then they need to work to increase this efficiency without hurting public safety even slightly. This isn't the place where cuts need to be happening. Let's just raise taxes. :)
Christopher LeClair
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 4:11 p.m.
Well, being as you would potentially benefit from fire protection services as well I don't see how that is logical. :)
grye
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:03 p.m.
Instead of raising my taxes, how about you just send in additional money to cover the defict spending?
Dog Guy
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.
In a proper one-party socialist utopia those seven residents who complained would have woken up in Siberia. Maybe they were shills assigned to play disgruntled comrades.
pseudo
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 12:49 p.m.
I agree with Ed - both sides are floating baloney and its hard to get through it to what the data is. The argument that money is separated into buckets is also more baloney. Can we get to the data please. How many runs, what kind of runs, how many actual fires, how many were just medical transportation. I think there is a lot to tell in those numbers. Further, I'd like know what the trends are on fire and medical runs per capita and personnel per capita in Ann Arbor.
2WheelsGood
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 12:46 p.m.
Cuts to snow removal? We'll survive. Cuts to education? We'll survive. Cuts to park services? We'll survive. Cuts to fire and police? We LITERALLY will not survive. These are the essential services that quite literally keep people from dying.
jns131
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:56 p.m.
Maybe that is the point. Ann Arbor burns to the ground while wild looting goes on due to lack of police and fire officials.Good luck Ann Arbor.
logo
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 12:14 p.m.
@ Carole: I saw the Brownfields article too and I understand how you may have been misled by the headline. The developer is proposing to use the state "brownfield" credits program to develop blighted urban space, happens all the time in Michigan. But the money is not taken out of local schools, it comes from the state wide fund and the state is supposed to replace it. Developing urban spaces instead of "greenfield" land is a good thing and the increase in the tax base makes up for the avoided school taxes. As to being "cozy "with developers, I don't buy it. The mayor and council are at the least "cool" toward developers. I for one would like to see the city embrace development as a way to raise the tax base. They are fortunate that A2 is a great city and developers keep coming back.
lou glorie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 7 p.m.
The state is SUPPOSED to replace it. Presently the state is not replacing this money. This is beside the point anyway. Private development should pay for itself
Brad
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:14 p.m.
Yes, the misinformation about the "diverted school funds" lives on. Nice job, aa.com.
Soothslayer
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 11:58 a.m.
Simple math folks. Need to raise taxes or otherwise generate additional funds to make up for the lost revenue from UM expansion & other sources. Snyder has it right with the incentives on community consolidation. Ann Arbor City & TWP unite in solidarity, revenue and cost savings!
logo
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.
I continue to be impressed at how well Ann Arbor is holding up in comparison to other Michigan cities and they haven't raised taxes. Lansing is a good example, Grand Rapids is another. Grand Rapids raised taxes last year and still made big cuts with bigger ones to come this year. Lansing is making huge cuts and raising taxes. Despite all the cuts coming down from the state, I hope A2 can stay the course on taxes until the economy turns around.
sparty2219
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:59 p.m.
Lansing has not raised taxes YET logo. Not yet... Lansing is the Arm Pit of America, next to Flint and Detroit. Ann Arbor is much more prestigious and vibrant. Keep Ann Arbor full of life while you can! I'd give $1000 or more in taxes if given the chance to keep things as status quo. With the current economy, things are going to only get worse like more theft, robbery, fires, homicides, and I could go on and on... I would like to see the senators, governors, all elected officials take a pay cut and have to pay for their benefits. There is information out there that is presented stating that Government Employees will have to pay a portion to their benefits/insurance..but it fails to say ELECTED OFFICIALS. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm....
63Townie
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 2:22 p.m.
"...haven't raised taxes."???!!! You have GOT to be kidding.
Chip Reed
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 11:22 a.m.
Do I detect a whiff of irony when annarbor.com quotes Ed Vielmetti on the subject of personnel cuts?
Craig Lounsbury
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:06 p.m.
well played Chip.
Soothslayer
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 11:59 a.m.
Really Ed? Really?
Carole
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 10:43 a.m.
When will city hall get the total picture -- the populace of Ann Arbor do not wish to have their city put at risk because there is inadequate firefighters to take care of business. If city hall can take 3 M from school taxes and other funds to give to a developer to redo Georgetown Mall, surely they can find the funds to keep our firefighters and police officers. Know this was not mentioned in this article, but read it a couple of days ago and did not get an opportunity to respond. Maybe the mayor should not be so cozy with developers. Save our schools, firefights, and police officers -- again take the street cleaners off the streets -- saw three of them yesterday cleaning a street with no debris.
Tom
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:30 p.m.
@ Rod Johnson: Carole is talking about the percentage of future taxes generated by the planned Georgetown Mall development that would have gone to Ann Arbor schools. A certain amount of future taxes on the improvements to the site will be captured and put into the site for brownfield redevelopment, etc. to make the project financially feasible to construct. The point is: these "school taxes" would never have been generated if not for the redevelopment, and eventually that development will start pumping money into the local schools, govt., and so on. It's a win-win situation.
Rod Johnson
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 3:11 p.m.
Can you clarify what you mean by city hall taking funds from school taxes? As far as I know, the City of Ann Arbor has no access to "school taxes."
Awakened
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 11:04 a.m.
While I tend to agree with you on the priorities of council; if the populace is concerned then seven attendees does not reflect this. On the contrary, it tends to reinforce my long impression that most of the populace of A2 really does not pay attention or get involved. Until a prominent or wealthy member of the community suffers loss from the lack of fire (or police) service nothing will be done.
Awakened
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 10:42 a.m.
The firefighters don't get a bucket. They just get the hose.
sparty2219
Fri, Apr 15, 2011 : 12:29 a.m.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean snoop. Actually, it's your government that is hosing the taxpayers. Serving a 4 year term and getting lifetime benefits??? Hmmmmmmm? Serving the community, putting their lives at stake for yours for 25-30 years, exposing themselves to carcinogens, viruses, you name it... and firefighters are hosing the taxpayer.
snoopdog
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 1:16 p.m.
The firefighters are hosing the taxpayers. Good Day
Domey
Thu, Apr 14, 2011 : 10:27 a.m.
Quote: "City Administrator Roger Fraser explains to residents how Ann Arbor tax dollars are separated into different "buckets of money."". I bet I can guess who's bucket is biggest!